Servicing a Centre Lathe

This video shows the process followed in servicing a centre lathe with a geared head stock. The lathe used is the Australian Hare and Forbes HAFCO AL-336, which is in fact a rebadged unit from China. This lathe is sold worldwide under a variety of brand names.
The lathe has a geared headstock, quick change gearbox and geared apron all of which run in oil. The video covers changing the oil in these three gearboxes as well as the lubrication of the lathe in general.
Disclaimer.
This video is intended for generating ideas or entertainment purposes only. Should you choose to make or do anything as depicted on this channel you do so at your own risk. Making and the use of tools can be extremely dangerous. The equipment and methods I use may not work for you and by no means do I suggest that my methods of working are correct. Your shop safety is your responsibility, so I therefore accept NO responsibility or liability for any injuries or accidents you may have if you attempt to replicate the things that I do.
#whitedoggarage #lathe #maintenance

[@blackdogmotorsport3784]

Thanks mate. I have the same Lathe turning up in a week or so. Read the manual regarding oil and all it says was “Machine Oil” , whatever that is. So cheers, I’ll have some hydraulic oil ready when it arrives.

[@whitedoggarage]

Glad to be of help, when you install the lathe, pay attention to getting it perfectly level and aligned. Thanks for watching the video. 👍👍👍

[@Longtimerolling]

Good stuff Bob.

[@whitedoggarage]

Thankyou for watching 😁

[@Eatherbreather]

Exactly what I needed to confirm the location of the fill and drain plugs for the quick change gear box 👍🏻

[@whitedoggarage]

☺👍👍👍

[@karennoyce1015]

Great video Bob I have the same lathe and will be doing my first oil change on the weekend. thank you for your video :)

[@whitedoggarage]

Thanks for watching and glad to be of help. 👍👍👍

[@louistyrrell4876]

Hi Bob, Thank you so much for making this video. I’m thinking of purchasing the exact same lathe from Hare & Forbes in a few months from now once I’ve saved up for it. Ill keep your tips in mind. Nice shed. Thanks again.

[@whitedoggarage]

Thankyou, I am glad you found the video useful.

[@johnkinnane547]

G'day and greetings from Tasmania Australia 🇦🇺 thanks for showing that my lathe is very similar to yours and changing the gear box oils is the same.I don't mind doing it I find it relaxing and the valuable thing is your reducing the ware, I have subscribed and look forward to watching the next instalment. Kind regards John

[@whitedoggarage]

Thanks John.

[@Everythings_Adjustable]

Good video Bob, I don't have a lathe but can see all kinds of little tricks here 👍 and your workshop is looking spotless 👍

[@whitedoggarage]

Thanks Sparky, it is spotless to a point, but mostly it looks tidy because it doubles as a garage overnight so everything has to go away to park the car and motorbikes.

[@Everythings_Adjustable]

Well I'm still jealous of your neatness 👍 😁

[@tc3728]

Thanks Bob. Just bought their AL320g model. This was very useful. I’ve had a look inside the gear box and could see sand and metal shavings sitting in the oil, probably from the casting and grinding production. Better change that before I get stuck in…

[@whitedoggarage]

Yep, good idea. Hopefully not to much in the way of metal shavings, otherwise you might need to make a warranty call. Actually the shavings may have come from line boring the case, but inspect your gears and bearings closely nevertheless. All sorted I think it will be a good unit 👍👍👍.

[@tc3728]

@@whitedoggarage glad I cleaned it out! A few teaspoons of sand in the bottom of the gearbox. Dodgy brothers vacuum with my airgun spliced into a piece of hose allowed me to vacuum up all the crud in the bottom.

[@whitedoggarage]

@@tc3728 Well done, hopefully trouble free from now on. Thanks for the update.

[@ozrc1017]

Great video, I have a new mini lathe only 550mm btc but much of what you did still applies. Thanks.

[@whitedoggarage]

Thank you.

[@ben7770]

Great tips Bob, glad I watch your video before servicing my AL-336. Perfect.

[@whitedoggarage]

Glad to help

[@waynejones8348]

Great video thanks mate

[@whitedoggarage]

Thanks 😀

[@MyroCraft]

Hi! I liked your channel Bob👍👌😉

[@whitedoggarage]

Thank you.

[@johnspathonis1078]

Thanks Bob - great video. After I saw your video I went hunting on my new lathe and found one oil point hidden under the DRO slide on the cross slide. I fitted magnets to all my drain plugs on my lathe. It seemed that they used to do that many years ago but is now out of favour (probably too expensive). In this era of sustainability I am concerned that we are throwing things away which still have a lot of life left in them. The (hydraulic) oil from your gearboxes is still in excellent condition as it has not been subjected to high heat and is not oxidized. It just contains metal particulates. Have you considered filtering this oil with a 5 to 10 micron filter and reusing (maybe an old toilet roll filter)?

[@whitedoggarage]

They don't seem to give a lot of thought to the layout on lathes these days, having said that DRO slides are hard to position at times. I take your point on the oil. Some years I don't do a lot of machining on mine and it is hard to justify the oil change, even though all the oil around here goes for recycling. One thing though is apart from particulates in the oil, you also need to think about oil shear, that is breakdown of the molecular structure of the oil with time as well as oxidation. BHP coal mines here in Queensland, used to, and probably still do, chemical analysis on their machinery oil to determine when it needs changing. A bit different from just going by the hour meter, but it obviously pays when you consider the amount of oil in a dozer or a haul out truck. Thanks for your comments, Bob.

[@kostavafiadis1144]

Love your tips happy to watch

[@whitedoggarage]

Thanks for watching!

[@jamesorr214]

Hi Bob, do you think it necessary to warm up the machine before changing the oils and if so how long would you run the machine to do so? I tend to do that when changing the oil in a car. I do that for 2 reasons - the oil runs out quicker when warm & I imagine it stirs up any contaminants meaning more crap is likely to flush out when draining the oil. Or am I just over thinking things? This is a great video. I have an AL960B. The manual is bordering on useless when it comes to figuring this stuff out.

[@whitedoggarage]

People I have met over the years who have bought the 960, have been very happy with them, they are a good unit. No, I do not bother warming it up in the machines here. They are gear boxes really, and do not have the all the little oil passages that engines have. You never get all the oil out any how, so you are always diluting your old oil with new oil. So, for me, I wait till the oil drain is down to drop by drop and then put the plug back in and refill. I hope that helps, thanks for watching the video.

[@gregevans3637]

Thanks Bob, most useful, I have one of these but I am a beginner. I use the lathe for model aircraft work and some motorcycle fabrication. Plus, it brings mates over to use it. All great fun. My reverse/forward micro seems to have failed - no forward rotation on selection of the red handle. Reverse and the jog button both work ok. I have a new micro switch, but cannot see how to get access to the location of the micro under the gearbox. Any clues, or should I just call H&F for a maintenance visit? Greg Evans.

[@whitedoggarage]

Greg, my first response is that I have no idea how to get into it and suggest you ring H&F and just ask the question. My second response, with a worried look, is to pull the power plug out and do a bit of panel removal. Looking at my unit, I am thinking you need to take the knobs off that go through the bottom panel, undoing the screws on the knobs is my first idea on how to get them off and then I am hoping they just pull off (take photos), then take off the panel itself. I am seeing a plate at the bottom front of the gear box under that plate on mine and I would assume you pull that off (probably screwed in place) and the micro switches should be in the recess behind that plate. I still think ringing H&F first is probably a good start. There may be an easy way to get to it, that is not obvious. Good luck.

[@whitedoggarage]

@Michael Murray Thanks for coming in on that Michael.

[@gregsmith8913]

Hello and Thanks Bob Can you please advise the dimensions for the Headstock Drain Plug ? I plan on my first service on an AL-336D Thanks Greg

[@whitedoggarage]

Too easy Greg, the diameter is 16 mm and the thread pitch is 1.5 mm, metric of course. I just butchered a short bolt of that size, quicker than machining one to suit. Good luck with your service, Bob.

[@TakamiWoodshop]

That was a cool trick with the vacuum Bob. How long have you had that lathe?

[@whitedoggarage]

Thanks Rob, I have had it about 13 or 14 years now.

[@markwhalen5300]

2:00 WOOF!

[@stuartburrell7629]

I reackon forget the leadscrew covers its easier to clean the leadscrew with a nice low 30 psi of compressed air than deal with the covers binding up. they are in my opinion a unperfected gimmick and when they bound up and shared the brass pin on the leadscrew for the second time, in the bin they went. Apart from that the 336 has been fantastic, cant fault it for the price. Stu

[@whitedoggarage]

Useful comment, thanks for that Stu 👍👍👍

[@frase1234]

Hi again Bob, Well I have my AL336 and I love it, Question of a different subject, Does the AL336 have a Cross slide lock ? (I found the carrige lock 8mm allen head) slightly annoying not being able to lock the cross slide - Cheers again mate.

[@whitedoggarage]

Good question, but no, there is no cross slide lock. I have never seen a cross slide lock on a center lathe. I can't think of a reason to have one, except maybe to stop tool chatter on turning a shaft, but that is why you do a spring cut, I guess.

[@markwhalen5300]

3:25 your video title is too modest. I think you would get more hits with a title that expresses the brilliant tricks you have devised to make the maintenance easy, clean, and fast.

[@whitedoggarage]

Thanks for the tip

[@markwhalen5300]

@@whitedoggarage I just love that vacuum trick, awsome!

[@BM-jy6cb]

I'm not an expert on lathes by any means and defer to your experience, but genuine question: Is it really necessary to change the gearbox oil in a lathe in a home shop? - My reason for asking is most cars don't recommend a gearbox oil change interval and those gears get just as much hammering as a lathe gearbox. I can see why it would be good practice in an industrial setting, but surely home shop or even light commercial use would not come close to wearing the oil out and any initial wear-in on the gears would be caught by a well-placed magnet. Like I said, genuine question, not trying to be a smart arse!

[@whitedoggarage]

BM that is an excellent question and I certainly don't see it as sa one either. You make a good point. Cars probably do work harder than a home shop lathe and have less frequent oil change periods, although that can depend too on whether the recommended oil is 'mineral' or 'synthetic' grade. Consulting the manual for the AL336 I see it recommends changing the oil in the headstock every 6 months and the apron (saddle) every 12 months. I'm going with 12 months for the whole machine as that suits my use of it and probably yours. My industrial experience is in the maintenance area and lathes in that situation get used every now and then, rather than all the time as would be the case in a production setting. Oil changes sometimes depend on the boss's or the fitter's inclination. These days most of the bigger firms doing production work would have a maintenance schedule most likely specified by the lathe manufacturer or based on their own experience. Interestingly oil companies seem to recommend about 2 years for oil containers that have been opened, which sort of puts a time frame of up to 2 years for oil in use I imagine, although car companies seem to expand on that. Still an excellent question well worth asking and I certainly don't have a more definitive answer than referring to the manual. Even then I have expanded the service interval for the headstock. Thanks.

[@shadow7423]

THANK YOU! My apologies but what is the recommended service cycle? Every 6 months?

[@whitedoggarage]

Joe, quite right, the recommended service cycle is every 6 months. I do it every year, but my lathe is not used every day. Unlike a motor, there should not be any contamination of the oil, but you can still get oxidation so I can't see too much of a problem with a 12 month service schedule. That said, when I used them in industry back in the day, they were doing well to get serviced at all. Cleaning and oiling the ways and oil points, which should be a regular thing however. I saw a KZbin video by Keith Fenner where he fitted an automatic oiler to an American lathe, that looked to be the spitting image of the AL336. He ran oil lines to all the oil points and then I think he had a pump that fed the oil when the lathe was working, probably a good thing to do if the machine is used every day.

[@shadow7423]

@@whitedoggarage THANKS! I’m a mature age apprentice (53 years old) and just learning about machining. I bought myself the AL-336 as well. This video is exactly what I was looking for.

[@whitedoggarage]

@@shadow7423 Joe, good for you, both as a mature age apprentice and buying an AL336. I was an apprentice at 15 and I can't imagine doing it at your age, so good on you. That American, Keith Fenner, he had a jobbing shop and joked that his AL336 lookalike (I think it was called a Grizzley or something - but they are basically all rebadged Rong Fu s from China) was purely used for his once a year metric job, but looking in the background and some of the videos he posted he used it more than that. That said, the AL336 is not a pure metric machine, it is an imperial machine that can do metric work, there is a difference. Keith had a big American Monach I think which he used for the big stuff and always looks impressive and he obviously used the AL336 look alike for the smaller stuff. Anyhow, I digress, you have a nice day, kind regards, Bob.

[@shadow7423]

@@whitedoggarage the place I work for doesn’t make it easier for me either. There are 2 apprentices at my work. A younger guy (the bosses son) and myself. He gets to spend time at the lathe (4 months and counting). But I only had 3.5 weeks with the lathe. Hence decided to buy myself a lathe so I can catch up in class because I am getting left behind. Thank you again.

[@adrianjohn4920]

Hi Bob, great tips on servicing. I have the same model & would like to get a QCTP to suit. Where did you get yours & are you happy with it?

[@whitedoggarage]

I got mine from Hare and Forbes, and some time later I also bought some extra holders. Quite happy with it, it works well and so much quicker to change tooling. Still got all the shims I made for the original tool post :-). Installation is relatively easy, but you have to modify the clamp plate to suit the compound slide. The one they sell comes with a universal base plate which is too thick to slide into the compound on the 336, so I used the mill to slim it down. Also, the QCTPs come in a couple of sizes, to suit a range of lathe swing sizes. So you need to know your tool to bed distance to get the right one. Hope that helps.

[@lbackhausen1]

Hi Bob, any chance you can advise oil qty for the feed gearbox? can see through my sight glass as the previous owner putrified it with gear oil... Thanks

[@whitedoggarage]

I am away from the workshop at the moment and wont be back for a few weeks, so I can't see my records. The guy looking after the shop is more in tune with trucks than lathes, and he hates looking for stuff in the files. From memory, the oil for the service is about 5 to 6 litres in total, with the head unit gearbox taking the bulk of that. I would say for the feed gearbox it is about a litre at most however. The apron gearbox is about 500 mL or so. Hope that helps.

[@lbackhausen1]

@@whitedoggarage Thanks Bob, the oil window doesnt seem very high on my lathe. It’s an Al-335. The box looks the same as the 336 though. Unfortunately my oil window is blackened :(. I used a makeshift dipstick and i reckon ive overfilled it. I used 46 Hyd fluid and it leaks like a sieve, perhaps due to overfilling? The oil that came out looked like 85W gear oil and the levers were hard to shift. Works great with the 46 Hyd fluid…. But concerned about the leak. Tempted to pull the selector plate off and reveal the gasket…

[@whitedoggarage]

@@lbackhausen1 Over filling probly won't hurt, but may also be the cause of your leak. The gearbox lubricates by flinging oil and the seal on the driveshaft is probably marginal in preventing oil escaping if the oil is up to the level of the shafts. The heavier oil is a possible cause too as the seal got used to a certain thickness and suddenly a much thinner oil is present, although that is usually only a problem where the oil is pressurised.

[@lbackhausen1]

Thanks Bob, I didnt notice any leaks around the feed or threading screw.. I was tempted to throw in Nulon Transmission leak sealer. Apparently you can have leaks in the casting itself (porous). I figure the previous owner reduced leakage by swapping to a much heavier oil. Cant ask him because he passed away, hence i ended up with his lathe. He was a retired toolmaker though, but even with the heavier oils it still leaked a heap in the months before the lathe was sold.

[@whitedoggarage]

@@lbackhausen1 Leaks in the casting is possible, if it is a bit maybe look for a crack. Maybe the overfill was to give it plenty to cope with the leaks...

[@frase1234]

Hi there & thanks for this great video, I'm about to spend $$$ at Hare & Forbes for a new AL-336D but I'm a little worried about Chinese lathes, heard a lot of bad stuff, but this is what I can afford. Have you had any problems with yours ? What did the oil look like at your first service ? is there anything I need to look out for ? love the videos, KEEP EM COMING - Cheers from Maidstone / Melbourne Aust

[@whitedoggarage]

My lathe is 12 years old and has not missed a beat in that time and was pretty well in true alignment when I set it up so I can't complain. The oil has always been clean, I pulled the top off the headstock box a couple of years ago and there was no shrapnel in the bottom. However little things like finish let it down. H&F also sell Taiwanese made lathes as well, more $$$, but visually better quality. I owned an English lathe years ago that was no where near as good as this H&F one. I have used English and Russian lathes in industry, but that was many years ago and they were much bigger machines. What to look out for, not sure with new lathes. To be honest, I have not kept up with the lathe market, because the one I have works fine and will probably see me out. Nothing much seems to have changed except the addition of DROs and I do like the concertina shield they fit over the lead screw. When I bought mine I had specific needs in respect of swing over the bed, spindle inner diameter, bed length, low speeds, geared headstock, ability to easily cut both imperial and metric threads with a good range of change gears. Being new you don't expect or accept excessive back play in the slides. The Chinese get blamed for a lot of quality problems these days, some of which are true and some of which aren't. In my youth growing up after WW2 the same was said of the Japanese and "Made in Japan" is synonymous with top quality today. China is on a quality trajectory that will match Japan in time. It really depends on the Australian importer as to the quality here I think. In my travels I notice that Chinese made equipment sold in the USA is much better quality than the same stuff sold in Australia, Britain and New Zealand. I think, actually I know from mates in some of the multinational equipment suppliers, that the Americans require much higher quality and the Chinese deliver this easily. It is all a matter of specification I feel. Hope that helps.

[@claytonchristophersen1633]

I have an AL 336 ( its about a year old ) and its Good Cant Fault it . Decent Internal Spindle size ! slow enough , fast enough , Left and Right thread capability , came with 3 and 4 Jaw + face Plate 2 Steadies Gears manual and Centres and Tools .The Manual is a little so so . ( Not Tooling and no Live Centre ) Tools with tangs cant be used on the tailstock if you want to use the taiistock scale ! as you cant wind it back without the tool bottoming and coming out.

[@whitedoggarage]

@@claytonchristophersen1633 excellent points and spot on. You are right the manual is terrible, you get better information talking to Hare and Forbes lathe people. You need to factor money for tooling for the lathe into your consideration. It can get costly. I would suggest you just buy what you need to get started on your projects and then just buy other tooling as you develop the need. Mills are a lot worse though, I reckon I spent the same amount again as my mill cost buying tooling for it.

[@johncrowley5612]

@@whitedoggarage Mine has the concertina lead screw cover. This means that you can't use collet chucks because your tool will never reach the work surface-the covers will bind up long before the tool approaches the workpiece. The solution is to make an extension piece, but this extends the workpiece away from the spindle thus sacrificing precision. Mine is a hobby lathe, I think I'll ditch the covers and spend a minute or two cleaning the leadscrew more often.

[@whitedoggarage]

@@johncrowley5612 I have looked at those covers, the latest version of the 336 has them fitted, and thought they were a good idea. But it seems they have limitations. Good to know that problem. Thank you.

[@withoutmypants540]

Thanks for the video Bob 👍

[@markwhalen5300]

13:00 are there dust covers for those lube points to keep out foreign material?

[@whitedoggarage]

No dust cover like the original oilers had. These have brass ball that is held up against the opening by an internal spring. The oiling process involves using the end of the oil can nozzle to push the ball in to allow oil to flow into the gallery. The springs are reasonably strong and you can feel the ball going down as you push the nozzle in. Somewhere on YT somebody shows how he replaced those oil points with oil lines fed from a single reservoir, which is interesting and probably a better system than going around the oil points every day of use.

[@Axtinguisher]

I have the same lathe in nerang, do you offer a repair service?

[@whitedoggarage]

Depends on the repair, send me an email at [e-mail] and we can discuss.

[@emanekaf4107]

Hi, i have the exact same lathe, but my one seems to be leaking oil from under the quick change gear box, would you have any idea where it might be coming from exactly?

[@whitedoggarage]

No idea really, but there are some places you could check. Oil is very good at travelling sideways as well as down. The bottom of the quick change box is probably just where it funnels to. Obvious ones to check in that area are the saddle drive shaft outputs and the drain plug for the gearbox itself. Further up is the spindle gear box drain plug area and the spindle shaft seals. As a further thought check that any excess from the oil you are using for cutting on the lathe is not collecting under the chuck and making its way to the front of the bed and then down the front of the quick change gearbox. I hope that helps.

[@emanekaf4107]

@@whitedoggarage thank you very much, I will have another look and try figure this out with out pulling apart the lathe. Thanks again. And your video was a great help, I couldn't figure out where the drain and filler plug was.

[@whitedoggarage]

@@emanekaf4107 Thank you and good luck with finding that leak.

[@justinkatipa9577]

Next time why don’t you drill and tap a new drain plug.

[@whitedoggarage]

Good idea, maybe next time I have the top off the headstock box.

[@paradiselost9946]

the only thing i curse on this lathe is the tailstock. only one i have ever seen with a flush nose. and omfg, its always a nuisance. hacked a chunk from the base just to clear the compound but yeah... any work between centres is a nightmare on this thing. its just that inch or two of overhang you need, and it isnt there. look at the casting, it actually sorta looks like somewhere... someone stuffed up on a drawing in the factory and its never been fixed... seriously thinking of hacking it up and dovetailing. lever style like a shaper... that in itself would be worthwhile on any lathe... the al346 might fit on with little to no work. iunno. might go down have a looksee...

[@whitedoggarage]

Totally agree, the tailstock needs more overhang, the othe rmodels have it, why not the 336.

[@paradiselost9946]

@@whitedoggarage yep, and the more i look at it, the more it bugs me. whole things a mess. the machining on the vee leaves a bit to be desired too. i got the friday afternoon model. find a nice chunk of 3x3 CI for a ram first off... hmmm. face off the base, flip it around, recut the vee. slice through the existing spindle at the centerline, dovetail it. cus the base dropped 15mm or so, can use a beefier spindle in the ram bringing things back up on center. just looked it over, theres enough meat in there. would really fix a lot of things... even without the ram, simply flipping the thing around and repacking it... future project. think it over a bit. would my mate donate that nice counterweight he has in the garden? lol... 4x4... bit too big. sigh. make patterns and actually cast something with that furnace i have but havent ever used? just set up a TP grinder and yeah, the tailstock is really getting to be a pain. i know that spindle aint parallel! yknow how you have to do 50 things before doing what you actually wanted to do?

[@whitedoggarage]

@@paradiselost9946 Yes what a shame, sounds like it was the Friday afternoon model. The tailstock is a good comment though. I never gave it a thought at the time. I was more focused on the work length and the swing over the bed diameter.

[@lukestevens384]

Hi bob great video is there any way of contacting you for some further questions thanks

[@whitedoggarage]

Luke, just dm me at [e-mail].

[@lukestevens384]

whitedoggarage yea iv Dj you ?

[@lukestevens384]

whitedoggarage sent you another email

[@Imagineering100]

I have one of these it is a piece of CRAP I have had to fix so many things that were poorly made from the factory absolute CRAP

[@whitedoggarage]

Sounds like you got a bad one. Mine has been okay, my issues are really about the layout, I mean most centre lathes have the same sort of layout, but it is the little things they could do better. Always good to have another opinion though, so thankyou.

[@dougsullivan9022]

I also have the same lathe and I would make a couple of comments. 1. They are not well made and have some built-in issues that are difficult or impossible to fix. 2. Hare and Forbes warranty service is near non-existent. They simply don't want to know. At least, that's what they're like in Melbourne. 3. Having said how much I hate H&F, their lathes and mills are generally good value for money and all most hobbyists can afford. To get better quality generally means spending way more and so most of us are stuck hating them but still getting the job done. H&F in Melbourne have told me more than once that they 'prep' each machine before delivery but this is, as you said, absolute crap. The lathe I had before this one was delivered to me dry. i.e. no oil anywhere. The gear boxes were bone dry. The splash guard was so bladly damaged that it had ripped away from the mounting bolts and yet, the outer packaging/crate was undamaged. Their response to both issues.....it's up to me to check the fluids (even though they told me it was 'plug & play') and that they don't carry spare splash guards and said you fix it and we'll send you a $15- knurling tool as compensation.