Setting up an Insert Drill on CNC Lathe

[@HDitzzDH]

I always just type in ”X0” and click ”measure”, that way it automatically knows the current position is X0 and you don’t have to type in a bunch of decimals, for safety I like to call the tool afterwards without going home and it should say X0 on absolute. I also clock the actual drill itself (the shaft) instead of the holder.

[@LH-hj9md]

same here dude

[@JSMPrimeOperations]

Same deal, just as a sanity check. You really put yourself at the mercy of the boring sleeve, to say it may be accurate, I'd Even go as far as even trusting the quality of it aswell. These " offset drills " tend to like going in one way opposed to the other.

[@flikflak24]

thats the exact same i also always do. though i indicate on the to knock it into zero runout ( since you can move the ER collet around ever so slightly cand get it perfect on center ) but only when it has to be a very precise hole size where i cant any more tools up. and also get the absolut max tool life out of the drill without changeing feed and speed

[@donaldscott6231]

Awesome video! ive been only doing lathe work for the last few months at a new job vs mainly mill setups. This video helps show they ways of using a test indicator vs having to buy a coaxial, one day i probably will but at least now i know theres other ways, thanks

[@aaronrunk4209]

You're most welcome! I'm glad that it helped, and yes, that coaxial will definitely be helpful once you get one. I've anyways been a fan of knowing more than one way of doing things. Thanks for watching.

[@jasonthompson514]

Because you have different block height on the machine blocks it will be, or should be always x0 there will be higher and lower centre blocks as well. There’s you put in as x+ or x- , depending on the height difference, but again it’s just a rough hole usually. I’ve worked on many, sometimes the hole a little small, sometimes a bit big, that depends on your turret position during its rotation.

[@Illtakeakersakerslight]

This is a demonstration of indicating ANY ID holder whether it be for a twist drill, insert drill, boring bar, threading tool etc. Every tool needs to be on center in the Y axis too (theoretical Y on machines with no Y axis). For this machine, loosening the mounting bolts and slowly torquing them down while indicating would be necessary. In my opinion a dead center 0 for an insert drill is unnecessary (just the X). Since it cuts like a boring bar just touch it off like a boring bar and program it to cut at exactly what size you want instead of X0. Also if youre finishing the hole with just the insert drill and no boring bar, clearing the cut diameter by about .005" in X will prevent dragging on the finished bore while retracting.. You cannot cut very far under with an insert drill without damaging it. You can however cut pretty far oversize depending on the length/diameter ratio of your tool. For example, a 1.000" inch insert drill might be able to cut to .990-.995 without too much rubbing/galling assuming it's not going deep, but you can cut up to about 1.100" before the center insert gets above centerline and starts to rub the wrong way (which can be catastrophic and varies by manufacturer). As a bonus you are creating more space for chip evacuation, and you don't need all the different size drills. This does of course have its limits and several variables will affect the end result. One very important thing though is that he didn't check centerline where the tip of the tool would be. X0 at the turret vs X0 5" away may be very different so it's best to use gauge pins or precision ground rods to indicate the length of the tool rather than just the front tool block on the turret itself. I use insert drills ranging from 17/32" up to 2 3/4" on a daily basis in plenty of 304, 316, 303, 6061 and brass with the help of 8 Mazak HQR150 MSY's which are twin spindle twin turret turning centers. just my 2cents

[@mattiasarvidsson8522]

lol .. looks like a clown have slammed the revolver into a rotating chuck... or the runout would never be that bad .. I bet both the spindle, z, and x are way off .. but everything can be fixed. ,if its not a mazak ;)

[@matejkuka797]

@@mattiasarvidsson8522 whats the problem with mazak ? :D just asking

[@MillTurn4Life]

I'm interested where your zero is its really weird that your zero isn't (almost) the center of the drill pots. But that being said everything you said was very informative for the newbies just starting out. Hats off to you sir 👏

[@aaronrunk4209]

On my older machines once I find the distance from home to the center of spindle rotation I have that number put onto the machine to make setups faster since I really only need to do this once. I have some newer Doosan's and they are setup with the offset from home to the spindle rotation is already in the parameters. This allows me to keep the offset at zero. Thanks again for the like

[@aaronrunk4209]

@@christophercolumbus8944 well unfortunately I've never done that type of drilling but I to would be interested. That and using a hobber are 2 things I've never tried to do.

[@aaronrunk4209]

@@christophercolumbus8944 no is a Mori kzbin.info/www/bejne/p6SynKuvh7GUmKc

[@kisspeteristvan]

This is something , but if your holder is out in Y , or not parallel with spindle , that sweep won't guarantee a good hole .

[@aaronrunk4209]

That is correct about the Y being off and since most smaller machine shops are now purchasing machines that are used this is way to get your hole in close and then use the offsets to dial the hole into size. If your turret is off too much then a service tech will have to be called in to re-align the turret's home location which isn't very hard once you know what parameters are needed to be reset. Thank you for watching

[@chrisnicoll8156]

Gravity throws it off. Been there done that. For true accuracy, MUST use a coaxial indicator.

[@aaronrunk4209]

Yes coaxial indicators are, and not just for lathes but on Mills as well. I wish a had air gages in the shop because it seems to be the easiest way to show students how to check hole size, egg, and taper. Dial bore gages are great but the air gages really magnify the details of the hole. I have students indicate the drill close since they will have to dial in the boring bar for the holes finished size. They also learn how to use the drill as a boring since this saves room on the turret. Again thank you for watching

[@azbrannon]

Thank you for making this video.

[@aaronrunk4209]

Your welcome thanks for watching!

[@azbrannon]

@aaronrunk4209 I'm a mill guy that just picked up my first cnc lathe, and your videos have been very helpful in getting me up to speed. I'm still trying to get familiar with the Fanuc control coming from a Haas mill, but I'm slowly making progress.

[@aaronrunk4209]

@@azbrannon That' great to hear that your expanding your skills. I have lots of hand programming videos, and several setup videos on different types of machines. I really hope they help and good luck!

[@m.j.khnowledge]

very helpful videos

[@aaronrunk4209]

Thank you for watching them!

[@alyssac7830]

Thanks man that was awesome

[@aaronrunk4209]

You're welcome! Thank you for watching my video!

[@justinmoritz6543]

3:00 Have you compensated for gravity?

[@aaronrunk4209]

Factoring gravity would be a good method to use if you were trying to hit the hole in one shot. technically on a boring mill when you're indicating a hole in the size a lot of times you have it run small and then with the boring bar it will finish it but you must use Precision measuring tools such as a dial bore indicator, air gauges, or Tri mics. Air gauges are going to be best in a production environment.

[@krylon128]

Dial in that turret centerline. The lathe will cut ten times better on OD and ID turrning with that Y axis error fixed.

[@aaronrunk4209]

Yes, we do need to get that fixed. Our Doosan 2100 was out, and the tech showed us a really cool trick to get it back into alignment, and it was also mind-blowing watching then so it. I'm not sure if it'll work on the Mori, but it's worth giving it a try. Thanks for watching

[@MF175mp]

I've touched the id tools off on the outside from the opposite side, spindle on reverse, then just input your measured OD number in negative and boom the reading is there.

[@MF175mp]

That's on the manual lathe, the cnc has the luxury of tool setter

[@aaronrunk4209]

@@MF175mp Yes CNC's are a Luxury when it comes to setting tools, but knowing how to set tools the way you described is a must because Tool Setter's never break..... :-)

[@MF175mp]

@@aaronrunk4209 The repairing of the setter would probably cost more than I paid for my whole lathe. I would probably end up not repairing it

[@MillTurn4Life]

@MF175mp I know I'm a little late to reply to this but that's exactly what 90% of all company's think and do but they really do pay for themselves.... eventually. As in speed and if they are treated right and the calibration is good enough for what you want

[@MF175mp]

@@MillTurn4Life I'm not a company, hobby stuff and a few singles and batches sometimes for people I know at this point.

[@merlebusby]

Looks like you done indicated them jaws.

[@aaronrunk4209]

Maybe, but my truck for indicating jaws in is by calling up a boring bar and koving each jaw against it as I rotate it and tighten them down. It works pretty well, but sometimes it's still frustrating. Thanks for watching

[@terryhobbs1920]

As soon as you mag that indicator to the chuck.....it is already rotating on center (dummy). By "stacking" or manipulating the indicator, you are only changing the diameter that the test indicator is rotating.

[@aaronrunk4209]

Thank you for your critiquing comment, but in the manufacturing industry, positive reinforcement is better than calling someone a dummy. please feel free to make your own video and share it with the world. Thanks for the view

[@balooc2]

i usually use a smaller drill than what i need to make a hole (most machines where i work are older and have some wear to the them). example: im drilling a 50mm hole. then i might use a Ø48 drill, throw it up, set my offset to X0,5 and drill. most of the time the hole will be a bit bigger(Ø48,3) this is to prevent rubbing on the tool inside the hole. after that i just use the drill to come up to the diameter i need. no need for a boring bar, unless you're doing some profiling inside the hole (FYI the is a rougging application). i use this method to same time and money on inserts. works with most material, but not superalloys ( haven't tried it, but i just assume). At the end of the day it all comes down to application and how presice you need to be.

[@aaronrunk4209]

That is a very good technique as well. This works especially well when putting in hole on a mill that have tight TP. Drilling it small then inspecting its location keeps shop scrap rates down.

[@1977drz]

Tnx

[@aaronrunk4209]

No problem and thanks for watching

[@edgarcontreras9549]

very good details my friend

[@aaronrunk4209]

Thank you for watching

[@chrisnanney7946]

What would be your normal speed and feeds on this index drill on a piece of Alum stock?

[@aaronrunk4209]

The feed and speed in using on this drill in this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/r2WZkINrg89sfpI I belive is G97 S2500 F.020 IPR which could be much faster depending on the power of the machine but this is a decent feed and speed. Thanks for watching

[@grimerrorz]

You could just use MDI to recall the tool offset and G0 X0. to get back to your center position.

[@aaronrunk4209]

Yes this makes setup a lot faster once the center of rotation is found. Using an indicator can difficult depending on the setup but once your close your in and storing the machine location is a must. Thank you for watching

[@samuelnoriega938]

Why not use a coaxial indicator?

[@aaronrunk4209]

Yes coaxial indicators are definitely a way to speed up the process. I'm a firm believer that companies should have these readily available at the machines if a lot of indicating is being done. Especially if you're in the detail area on manual Mills. Thanks for watching

[@Benfoxmra95]

im really not so sure i agree with this, if you watch your tool its flexing while drilling after you offset that .030" so now when you drill it will be drilling off center. I think its always best practice to center X up on the axis of the tool regardless of the final dia. use a boring bar to get a your final ID correct.

[@aaronrunk4209]

I believe you're more right than you think because I have a feeling after noticing what you saw. that the turret itself may be out of alignment in Y, which may be causing it to deflect down. Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching

[@satyakusuma9556]

How to setting Y0 if the machine have no Y axis?.

[@aaronrunk4209]

If your alignment is still off when you set X axis zero, you will have to determine if it's off beyond tolerance and then you need to look into If your turret is out of alignment or if you are able to make adjustments to your tooling to bring it alignment enough to make your parts. Thank you for watching

[@satyakusuma9556]

@@aaronrunk4209 Y axis in my turret miss alignment. unfortunately my machine doesn't have Y axis settings in the controls.. maybe I'll try to adjust the cutting tools..thank you

[@Benfoxmra95]

once it's indicated type X0.0 then press "MEASURE".....

[@memyselfandi3925]

Next time just install drill o.d. insert up. Enter g54/55 g28xo: test cut a shadow hole, measure diameter and wear offset just like a boring bar.. finished, fast and easy.

[@aaronrunk4209]

You're not wrong in the fact that this would be very quick if you are running a machine that had its X Center of rotation set to the center of the chucks rotation. however, on many machines the center of rotation is is not the center of spin. Depending on the machine G28 X0 location can be inches to feet away from the center of spin. For example, your explanation would only work on my newer Doosans but not my older Doosans. The good news is once you have found the center of spin on any machine you can simply write a parameter/macroprogram to put you at the center of rotation or simply write it down on the machine and shift that distance from home position. Thank you again for watching

[@memyselfandi3925]

@@aaronrunk4209 running dinosaurs? Lol, j/k. Guess im spoiled with all new machines. All my haas, doosan and toyoda's go off center of id holder.

[@aaronrunk4209]

@@memyselfandi3925 lol yes we do have many good ol machines. I honestly need to make an updated video using the update technique since this is becoming more common. Thank you for the 💡

[@jonathanswieton5850]

Awesome vid. 2 questions. What kind of indicator is that, and how was the drill undersize at first? I get that it was offset but it's still a drill so I'm confused on that one 😆

[@aaronrunk4209]

Hello, and thank you for watching. at the very bottom I have a link to the indicator. When the drill is on center it will make a 1.0 hole. However, the drill itself only has one insert that cuts the outer part of the hole and the other starts and cuts the inner part of the hole. Meaning if you were to measure across the body of the tool and the outer insert it would not be a perfect 1.0 the design of the tool allows it to cut off center to an extend. That is why to hole is able to be small using a 1.0 insert drill. Hope this makes sense! HERE'S your link www.amazon.com/Fowler-52-562-001-0-Horizontal-Indicator-Graduation/dp/B0006J3LVK/ref=asc_df_B0006J3LVK/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312115145736&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14727519745521027406&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9026531&hvtargid=pla-623646677887&mcid=58592e8a7d3c328f8ac12f7a628c9006&gclid=CjwKCAjw8diwBhAbEiwA7i_sJQrgSKB7Yoyr-RgYD0zSuJu5To5inN8lawItv6mWZVj8IpxXbI5hnxoCT7gQAvD_BwE&th=1

[@jonathanswieton5850]

@@aaronrunk4209 ooh that does clear it up. That's a pretty cool drill! Thanks for the reply 👌

[@neelamuralikrishna5354]

What about 6edges reamer center

[@aaronrunk4209]

With reamers not having much a bottom cutting edge, once it's dialed in on zero it will follow the path of your drilled hole. If the cost of your material or job is expensive, always grab a setup piece of material and test it on it. Thanks for watching

[@Israkiwi99]

Reamers dont necessarily follow the hole if it is off center because the leading edge is the cutting edge much like a drill.

[@fishsticks88]

Invest in a coax indicator

[@aaronrunk4209]

Yes coaxial indicators are definitely a way to speed up the process. I'm a firm believer that companies should have these readily available at the machines if a lot of indicating is being done. Especially if you're in the detail area on manual Mills.

[@fishsticks88]

@@aaronrunk4209 I use them daily on all my setups for both lathe and mill.. And all of the fixtures I make I just drill a hole to indicate for my x,y 0 positions makes life really easy

[@aaronrunk4209]

@@fishsticks88 absolutely it makes life easier

[@mateuszc.1928]

My way is to indicate already mounted tool on touch probe then go command G0X0Y0Z(wherever machining) then I indicate precisely on short arm indicator . Thats it done. If you dont have Y then its hard to fix an error cause if you want to have firm hold of your tool you should not use opposite screws. And some more: Firstly.. you never indicate hole. Its pointless. You need to indicate tool. This is the reason indexed tools have ground ring on the base. If you have carbide then you stick it out just a little bit more to indicate on h6 ground shank. Second.... are you sure your machine is squered up perfectly? You indicate in the position "Z" where you actually going to be machining. Third .. this long arm of your indicating dial tester will lie at least 0.01mm because of gravity. Forth.. there is many reasons why your hole can be different size than nominal number. Firth.. there is more to it but the above is most important for begginers to think about and understand. I am sorry to give such a tyrrade but believe me i spent myself some days of my begginings until i got this worked out in details.

[@aaronrunk4209]

I agree with you that there are several ways of achieving accuracy when dialing in a hole. Especially when having to use twist drills that stick out far from the holder, and once they are dialed in and you look at the machine coordinates you would be off up to .010 or more in both axis but it sometimes is the only way to make the part correctly. Indicating the holder hole is not pointless, it's just another method to dialing in a hole even if it's roughly dialing it in. For a student that is learning it's actually easier concept wise, because the hole is bigger and easier to read. My way of doing this in industry was different than how i show here and was the most accurate way but with limit tooling in our learning environment it's works really well. in short this video is a simple way of roughly dial in a hole with the tooling that we have in the shop, and since we are school using tax payer dollars I want to be diligent since most students will go to a company that does this different than even what we have both described above. Also, never feel like your opinions are negative because if everyone thought their way was right we would never get better in this industry. Thank you again for watching.

[@mateuszc.1928]

@@aaronrunk4209 Yes. There is always many ways. My point is that everyone should develop 3D imagination when doing machining. You consider machine .. how its built and tool how its mounted Everyone needs to learn where to expect and how to account for process imperfections. Saying "pointless" was me taking thinking shortcut. A bit overshoot I must admit. It was to put emphasis in what is the real goal -tool tip to be centered and not to take things as granted. Ps. I lost some 5 digit sums by taking things as granted. :)

[@jeremiahreschke8091]

If you attach that mag base to a price of steel and then zero out the indicator. Flip the steel plate over and observe all that indicator droop. You will go and buy a co axial the next day.

[@Illtakeakersakerslight]

right? if you can afford a lathe, you can afford a co ax.

[@aaronrunk4209]

Yep

[@even1s]

Странные телодвижения, обкатываеш один раз револьвер после установки станка и уже понято куда сверло ставить, да и после сверления видно же по диаметру отверстия как сверло стоит. Нафига этот бред мне рекомендует ютуп??

[@aaronrunk4209]

С любой машиной, с которой сталкиваются, не все они могут быть идеальными с завода. Многие машины покупаются у сторонних поставщиков или на аукционах. Знать, как обозначить отверстие на станке, необходимо по нескольким причинам. Вам нужно знать, что все монтажные приспособления одинаковы, и что как только вы найдете то, которое вам больше всего нравится, независимо от конструкции, вы можете купить больше такого стиля. Не только для одной машины, но и для всех машин в вашем магазине. Наличие этого в стандартной комплектации поможет вашей компании сэкономить время и деньги, поскольку варианты инструментов в вашем магазине сведены к минимуму. Также, когда машина разбивается, если вы не хотите тратить деньги на то, чтобы технический специалист вышел и отремонтировал вашу машину, вы можете отрегулировать выравнивание, ЕСЛИ авария не была серьезной. Да, вы можете навести сверло на то место, которое, по вашему мнению, является центром, и проделать отверстие и оттуда отрегулировать. Однако, как чувствует себя машинист при использовании инструментов для измерения настойчивости, не у всех одинаковый уровень навыков. Пожалуйста, знайте, что любые знания о внутренней работе и методах работы станков - это не ерунда, а еще один способ помочь машинисту изучить и понять свои машины. Спасибо за просмотр.

[@even1s]

@@aaronrunk4209 я их настраиваю почти каждую неделю и принцип у всех одинаковый.

[@aaronrunk4209]

​@@even1s Да, установка машин или настроек с помощью индикаторных отверстий, на мой взгляд, является одним из наиболее эффективных способов определения положения. Я использовал свой циферблатный индикатор почти ежедневно и для каждой настройки. Я призываю всех, кого я тренирую, овладеть ими, потому что они очень точны. Спасибо еще раз.

[@chrisnanney7946]

S

[@빠삐뽀부바]

걍 터렛 센터를 맞춰라

[@aaronrunk4209]

좋은 소식은 이유가 있다는 것입니다. 기계 모델과 제조업체의 매개변수 설정 방법에 따라 기계 회전 중심이 여러 위치에 있을 수 있습니다. 이것은 Z축에서도 마찬가지입니다. 일부 기계를 의미하는 것은 사용 중인 도구의 측면과 회전 중심에 따라 양수/음수 값을 간단하게 입력할 수 있고 도구를 안전하게 설정한 다음 그에 따라 조정할 수 있다는 의미입니다. 그러나 다른 기계의 회전 중심은 기계의 원점에서 전송된 값입니다. 기계 "회전 중심"이 홈 위치에 있고 이 방법을 사용하여 설정해야 함을 의미합니다.