Setting up and Adjusting Valves on a Model Steam Engine

[@lineshaftrestorations7903]

The first thing is the slide valve was not properly adjusted on the valve rod in the steam chest to give even valve events on both sides of the piston. That was obvious from the view of the steam chest. The adjustment of the eccentric on the crank shaft is to control the lead which is how much before or after dead center steam is admitted to the cylinder. That adjustment is akin to spark advance on an internal combustion engine. Dave Richards' Steam Powered Machine Shop Episode #26 has one of the best explanations of steam engine valve timing.

[@gary.solexa]

Would just like to note what a lean and elegant looking engine this is. That main frame/casting is a beauty!

[@kevinbyrne4538]

Interesting to see how the engine's timing was adjusted. Reminded me of KZbinr Keith Appleton in the U.K., who also renovates model steam engines.

[@daviddemoise3526]

Very cool information, I enjoyed getting to meet you and see how this little engine ran at Fabtech!

[@jonka1]

I kept waiting for Keith to notice that the valve rod was loose in its end carriers and that the general state of the valve is very very poor. Maybe he'll get someone to tell him off camera. With luck Mr Appleton will get in touch with him.

[@biggseye]

I remember seeing ads for this type of small steam engines on the back of comic books in the 60's it may be that old.

[@steveskouson9620]

Man, most posts mentioned Mr Appleton, and Mr Richards. I follow both, and wish either guy could collaborate with Keith R. (I'd pay for that video!) steve

[@nitehawk1224]

Great job on the base Keith.

[@donfoster1832]

For folks who may not know, you can keep super glue for months in the fridge and indefinitely in the freezer without it drying out.

[@gwheyduke]

Looks very similar to a Cretors Popcorn Wagon steam engine, or a model of one. Coles Power models sold castings for the popcorn steam engine.

[@David-te9cw]

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻Hi Keith Dave from Australia Long time watcher first time comment Was watching this video and noticed a problem in the steam chest The valve plate and rod seem to be solid to each other I was under the impression that the valve plate should be just lose enough to float freely from the rod and nut as the steam pressure in the steam chest will hold the valve plate against the valve ports and this will allow for a better seal on the valve surface I would add another nut to the timing shaft (22.10 time stamp) and adjust to a loose fit , then lock the nuts down to each other, this will allow for a slower more efficient run at low pressure well done keep it up mate 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@Nexfero]

nice looking wood base with a pretty model steam engine on top!

[@williamlewis3965]

any body who doesn't like steam engines is just weird. keep up the good work Keith

[@johnhenderson1760]

Very interesting. Now I'd like to see how you set the timing on the Vulcan. I didn't realize that steam locomotives had accommodations for adjusting timing until you made mention of it once.

[@royreynolds108]

The timing is a combination of eccentric angle and where the valve is on the valve stem when the valve covers and uncovers the ports for steam passage.

[@84953]

@@royreynolds108I just saw a beautiful video with a with a simple mock up of a steam engine and the various rods and linkages that are on it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mGixcnWLoN56pc0 What you're looking at is a simplified engine that does not have a reversing gear (the model). On engines that have a reversing lever it basically changes the relative position of the valve cam and the TDC or BDC position of the piston. For those who don't know what that is, TDC is when the piston is the farthest distance from the main shaft, and BDC is the opposite.

[@johngilley3518]

Transfer screws are great, I was given a set when I first got into maintenance.

[@2listening1]

Good morning Keith and the other Keiths! :)

[@Cadwaladr]

For demonstration purposes, it might be nice to make a clear plastic cover for the valve box, so you can really see it in action.

[@Sizukun1]

I think that steel valve box plate could use some polishing and jeweling. That'd be a nice little addition to that piece!

[@FredMiller]

There are a couple schools of thought on old steam engines. Keep the patina or make them shine like new (or better). On my channel you can see examples of both. That engine definitely needs more TLC but he just ran out of time...

[@Sizukun1]

Yeah, Keith mentioned the fit and finish wasn't good but "it works". I think jeweling is just a really pretty method of transforming a boring part like a box plate into something that accents the polished brass well.

[@FredMiller]

I totally agree "jeweling" or "engine turning" can really put some "bling" into a piece of work...

[@johnleake708]

Thanks for showing us the engine and nice work on the base. Sad that the builder did not follow your example in building it originally.

[@84953]

Not if it were going to be run on steam.

[@toolbox-gua]

At 29:00 the governor goes loose one of the weights. Very nice and the “upgrade” of the base gives a much nicer look.

[@franksmodels29]

Assholes will be assholes not matter what, they don't realize how much time and effort is needed to make vids, great job as always Keith 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@lwilton]

It looked to me like the clevis was loose on the valve push rod, which could cause the timing to change over time. Also I didn't see any float in the valve slide on the valve rod, and I thought I was hearing a possible valve leak, which would be logical if the slide can't float on the rod.

[@charlescartwright6367]

Wouldn't it be nice if just once the negative crowd would leave a comment and say why??? For an old semi-restoration it looks good thanks for sharing. I agree with the comment about the valve float being too tight, but camera angles and my old eyes do strange things. Mahalo nui loa

[@eifionjones559]

shall we start with that no steam engine has steam entering the cylinder at tdc , there is always cushion steam

[@benhancock1408]

LUBRICATE the darn thing!! Nice video anyhow.

[@elsdp-4560]

THANK YOU...for sharing. Nice steam engine.

[@meyoucajun1]

Come on Keith, bashing the fellow that made that, I would be proud to have made it that works much less little imperfections, we don't live in a perfect world, let be positive.

[@teescottageguyproductions]

That is a fantastic engine

[@djorges]

I use some of the blue painters tape to mark things rather than drawing on it. This way I don't draw on the finished piece, plus it is easy to move if I need.

[@donpollard9460]

You might have to adjust the travel, i.e., the slide the valve one way or t'other to give even opening both sides, but then you probably have done that... by now seeing this was 2018!

[@Blazer02LS]

Looks like a popcorn cart engine kit with a few builder touches... Looks like you have a few tweaks to do after the show.

[@Hofsan]

Balls Out!

[@WeirdHarold49]

Why not extend the counter-bore hole through the base-board so you (or whoever inherits this) don't have to remove the cylinder mounting block to remove the cylinder screws?

[@rustyheaps]

Keith Appleton (check out his channel) would be having a minor infarct over the lack of oil. (I see someone else has beat me to this comment!)

[@russkepler]

That sure looks like an early version of the Creator's popcorn peanut engine. Perhaps a model from Coles.

[@cromagnon305]

Drizzle a pilot hizzole :) Nice work Keith, as always!

[@Xldevil]

That was the first thing I thought,Keith Appleton would use a lot of oil while running and adjusting that engine.

[@jincym8937]

What is hp of engine

[@youpattube1]

Seems like it would have been a little easier to just drill two holes down from the top, within the penciled in boxes for each block. Then glue them, and flip it over and drill and screw into these perfectly placed holes. No measuring from the sides and flipping and checking, etc.

[@glennmoreland6457]

Nice video Keith

[@ohhpaul7364]

I have always heard that the governor on those engines is where the term "Balls to the walls" came from because when you had the engine running as fast as it could, the balls on the governor would be extended out towards the walls from the centrifugal force or is that centripetal force? Regardless, that is where I have heard it came from.

[@vilsiran]

Ohh Paul true statement.

[@Gizmo42Rodeo]

It's the source of the term "balls out".

[@tipetu]

Send it to Keith Appleton. He`ll fix it right away

[@ironhenry2708]

Keith did you need to fit the governor belt before fastening down ?

[@combatmedic1980]

Keith, is there an adjustment on the sliding valve in the steam chest, it looked to me as it was sloppy?

[@meteor2001aa]

Just like to know why you did not use brass on the your air inlet holder ???? 😳. LOVE YOUR CHANNEL. THANKS FOR ALL YOUR VIDEOS R ay>>>>

[@63256325N]

That's where "balls all out" or some form of that saying came from....but I'm sure that's not an unknown tidbit of useless information. Thanks for the video.

[@James-fs4rn]

Thanks for sharing. Would be nice to reverse engineer it to make drawings and castings kits.

[@williamsquires3070]

I’m surprised that there’s not a gasket there on the slide-valve plate, or at least some gasket material (like on the heads of an internal combustion engine). Seems like it would leak something awful if that plate, or the box’s machined surface wasn’t exactly flat.

[@cup_and_cone]

I keep forgetting to ask, did the AG/harvest up your way get hit as bad as I've heard due to Michael?

[@Quignal]

The fly all governor needs attention as well Minot closing properly

[@mr.t.807]

The coupling on the valve Rod to The Eccentric rod looks like it is loose. That would make a knock. Couldn't see the valve in the valve box very well, but it looked like it was about to hit on one end.

[@krazziee2000]

cool engine ,,

[@matthewhelton1725]

Old Modeler's tip: superglue should be stored in a dark, low humidity, low temperature area.... the fridge (not the freezer) is actually a good place.

[@Mishn0]

It's easier to just buy a new bottle when the old one clots. It's not that expensive. I don't even put a cap on mine, it just sits on the bench. I usually get about six months out of it before it clots. I'm a modeler too; working on a Fujimi 1/72 Phantom right now.

[@Madmoody21]

This is how military aircraft maintenance and rebuild facilities store their cyanoacrylates!

[@karlgoebeler1500]

Just got thru watching some Keith Appleton Clips myself.

[@adkinsfabricationandthenso3488]

How long can it run at top speed like that Mr. Keith?

[@GarnettM]

That`s cool .

[@karlgoebeler1500]

Apologies for the delay. Yours just popped up on the net

[@richardlathrop61]

Is it possible you have an engineering students project? I have seen these before where students were required to design and build their own steam engines as part of the curriculum.

[@bheagle65]

Just wondering, If this had an output shaft, could you connect a car Alternator/Generator to it to charge Batteries from air power?

[@williamsquires3070]

I wonder what the (fractional) HP this engine has? Anyway, nice job getting it mounted on the new stand and running! 😎

[@Ken19700]

Contact youtuber Keith Appleton and ask him about the castings.

[@aussiebloke609]

At 3:09 I see a bunch of extra screw holes in the original base - in front and to the side of the main flywheel, right ahead of what looks like a drive pulley for a belt. Makes me wonder if it was originally set up to run something.

[@Madmoody21]

the main flywheel shaft is loose possibly bent you can see the bearing facing camera moving.

[@tonybell4447]

Pity the steam chest cover is not made from brass, maybe another project ?

[@ralphgould2783]

Keith, Why does the belt to the governor have a twist in it. It would seem the governor would work regardless of direction of rotation.

[@royreynolds108]

You don't want the adjusting nuts to tend to back off or loosen.

[@ralphgould2783]

@@royreynolds108 ok, that makes sense.

[@Mishn0]

You need some oil on that thing. Keith Appleton would not be pleased.

[@jrkorman]

Once Keith R started running it I found myself thinking that it needed a bit of Keith A's "secret sauce"!

[@chrisstephens6673]

You took the words right out of my keyboard.

[@rustyheaps]

"50% steam oil, 25% machine oil, and 25% rapeseed (or, as it's sometimes known, canola) oil". I can't remember to pay my bills, but I can remember this...

[@willi-fg2dh]

KA would clip him one about his ear-hole for the way he manhandles the poor thing too . . . every time he dropped it on the bench or picked it up by the valve rod i cringed . . . and that T-handled Allen wrench to tighten those itty-bitty bolts?

[@thomasweitzel8506]

Whohoo - Meeting of Keith Appleton aficionados here! Mr. Rucker did explain the function of the slide valve exactly right - but he didn't mention that the valve has to open at the same time for "pre dead up" and "pre dead down" and you can rectify that by screwing the valve up or down on the valve rod thread. You can't see if this is set right in the video - I assume it is "screwed up" ;-). And Mr. Appleton would have to say something about the slide valve being too tightly coupled to the valve rod also. Which is a construction error of the steam engine really: having the slide valve as a whole directly connected to the rod.

[@nothermarkgnomex]

Assuming that model is of a large factory engine the old base is more correct while yours is prettier. The engines with a larger flywheel were built with a well for the flywheel so the engine ended up at a convenient height for maintenance. Just consider how that would have worked out in real life with even a 10 ft flywheel.

[@ronalddavis]

i just knew that screw would fall through that hole

[@tomherd4179]

I thought there was a timing "spot" where the engine could run in either direction based on the initial rotation. Like the real steam tractors balancing on a triangle in shows. So do the real tractors have some sort of control that the model does not have? Liked your explanation on timing, as I picked up a vertical model at a swap and probably need to do a little timing on it.

[@ElectricGears]

There is no timing spot like you are describing, however there is something called a Slip-Eccentric that does allow an engine to run in either direction based on initial rotation. Larger engines generally have en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephenson_valve_gear which is basically two eccentrics 180° apart and a linkage that lets you select between which eccentric's motion is more strongly coupled to the valve. They also have the advantage of allowing the operator to effectively control the amount of steam the engine uses (separate from the steam pressure which is controlled by the globe valve or regulator) so larger engines like locomotives can operate more efficiently at lower loads.

[@mattcorbin963]

If the engine used an oscillating cylinder, then it would run either direction as you described. This type of engine did not use any valve gear, as it was not needed.

[@tomherd4179]

@@mattcorbin963 Thank yo for the information.

[@tomherd4179]

Thanks for description. At our next show I am going to talk with some of the steam tractor operators (engineers) and have them "show" me the eccentrics. I can mentally visualize them, but seeing will be much more meaningful. Again- Thanks! @@ElectricGears

[@eifionjones559]

please please do not follow that timing explanation , you will ruin your engine

[@lwilton]

For people interested in making and repairing model steam engines, I can recommend Keith Appleton's channel. He could use a few more subscribers, or at least viewers.

[@4speed3pedals]

Keep your super glue in the refrigerator when not in use , with the cap on. Maybe you already know this. I have had it last for over 6 years.

[@andywithers592]

Another well made video. Maybe I missed it but what psi is required?

[@markowen7164]

A million

[@noelhenderson700]

Actually it will probably run on 5 to 10 psi. It would be more interesting to know what flow rate of air is required.

[@nothermarkgnomex]

It should run on around 10 PSI for demonstrations. They are run slow for that to show the works and minimize wear. In real life that motor would run around 80-100 PSI of live steam to do real work. Check out Keith Appleton's site if you want to see something like that.

[@theworkshopmechanicchannel3296]

It’s only been up for 4 minutes and already someone’s given a thumbs down. Some people need to get a life

[@petepeterson4540]

yes his competitor boy what a loser

[@Hoaxer51]

Somebody that doesn’t like working with dead tree carcasses!

[@Mishn0]

It's most likely some innocent bystander that doesn't like KZbin recommending stuff they're not interested hoping a downvote will adjust the suggestion algorithm.

[@tomherd4179]

Agree with you. I have seen some vids that deserved a thumbs down, but I simply don't respond at all. Keith and others spend a lot of time and effort making these for us, so they deserve positive feedback.

[@glennmoreland6457]

Hi from England Agreed... I'm getting a bit sick of seeing it to be honest... And you just know they won't be doing owt themselves...

[@jeffreymurdock8366]

Should check out Keith Appleton channel. This is his kind of stuff

[@markowen7164]

And I always thought you needed wood drills for wood. What have I been doing all my life?

[@84953]

LOL. The spoon and or spade drill came before the twist drill and while you can drill into metal, it's a lot harder to do than even with a twist drill. Of course the first twist drill was the auger bit, and that has a much shallower spiral than the typical twist drill of today. That won't work well in metal at all. The "modern day" twist drill is interchangeable unless you are using it for a demonstration of period work that was before the twist drill.

[@MorseB]

Interesting there does not seem to be any oilers on it?

[@Hoaxer51]

Anon, I see at least three, one on the main beam, and a couple on the flywheel area. Maybe more? One looks traditional and a couple are the kind with the spring loaded lids. Sounds like he should put some oil in the ones that are there, and just oil wherever he can get some on any moving parts. It was a good video, I enjoyed watching!

[@jmhannnon]

Looks like there is room for a boiler on the base.

[@Mishn0]

but not for both a water tank and condenser. He's gonna need a bigger board.

[@carygrant8796]

Who the hell let Mr Pete222 in here?

[@rrabbit1960]

Neat little engine! Nice work on the base. There is another Keith on KZbin who does videos on model steam engines-his name is Keith Appleton and he's in the UK. He may be able to help you ID that particular model. Here's the link: kzbin.infofeatured

[@aserta]

That steam chest needs some proper square heads instead of those hex ones, kind of look out of place.

[@petepeterson4540]

you do that to yours! but I think I would do that to mine as well

[@chandhrma8104]

Hello sir

[@kc8bdr]

That is a neet steam engine.

[@ibjeterhere]

Why not add a clear plastic cover to the steam chest if your only going to run it on air ...

[@peterowens290]

First I note the considerable difficulty you had achieving optimum timing, no wonder withe apparently very crude provision for adjustment. But also the valve chest appeared to me to of awful quality, sloppy & with packing to kake up for initial very poor machining. I would have expected that part would have been rebuilt.

[@gardenman3]

I hope you have the engine set up to do some work and not just run.

[@robertdwyer8262]

*

[@christopherbusch1933]

Sadly his advice isn’t quite right. The valve is supposed to open *before* reaches bdc or tdc to provide “cushion”. 90 degrees is not correct. Not proper procedure...

[@eifionjones559]

that is a poor description of steam engine timing, it would not run like that

[@chuckwin100]

it looks like a kit that could have come from China if the quality of the machining is so bad.

[@Cadog_Pembroke]

32 minute video, 4,372 words, basically used 15 times. Tiresome TSTL

[@flashpointrecycling]

Did I miss something? We have a model engine with questionable machining from an unknown maker and an unknown kit. Right so far? If it is not a great representation of something..... Anything...... Why are we taking it to Fab Tech to represent us at a vendor show?

[@noelhenderson700]

'cause it's fun.

[@royreynolds108]

@@noelhenderson700 Right!

[@flashpointrecycling]

Good enough for me!

[@DoRiteFabrication]

Because,...... just because! A Negative Nellie can only see that cap head screws are not period correct, the thousands of folks that stopped by at Fabtech thought it was amazing! I have a huge appreciation for the purest movement, but this isn't a restoration, It's a very cool project that caught the interest of hundreds of young millennial students that now appreciate the beauty of steam power. Who knows, maybe some future enthusiasts were born. Instead of being so negative, take a step back, thank the guy who puts countless hours into videos that you watch for free. Just for a quick ego check, I never saw any name on the project, so it didn't represent you or anyone else just a cool project......Kindness buys far more than gold.

[@flashpointrecycling]

@@DoRiteFabrication - Wow! It was not my intention to be a "Negative Nellie" and I am certainly not ungrateful for the thousands of hours of unpaid video. I simply asked "did I miss something"? Is that what provoked you? I sincerely apologize. SINCERELY! I love all things steam and understand well why Keith would do such a beautiful job on the little engine. Fantastic! I would love to see it close up. You are an extraordinary welder/fabricator YT creator. I understand why you would be at Fabtech. My disconnect (and it is mine) was with the relationship between two great YT creators / fabtech and and a little engine of inferior quality. Generally at trade shows and vendor exhibits "I" would bring my best work forward to demonstrate goods and services "I" can deliver. I was not aware of thousands of millennial students - was this some kind of educational exhibit? Perhaps that is what I missed! Your message to me was cut off in the middle. I don't know what the rest of it said. I don't want to know. But consider my EGO checked and I humbly thank Keith for his devotion and unpaid hours that I watch for free. "Because" - I have several of those in my garage. I understand!