Setup a Micro850 Encoder HSC High Speed Counter

[@TimWilborne]

Thanks for watching! If you are looking for the complete Connected Components Workbench PLC Training series, visit twcontrols.com/micro800-connected-components-workbench-lessons

[@Liquid_Bread_Fabrewcation]

I searched your site for the 2080-MOT-HSC module and couldn't find it as I would rather support you and your family. Unfortunately I could not find it and bought one on eBay. It took a considerable amount of banging my head when trying to incorporate an encoder with a micrologix 1200 for a sheeter project a couple years ago. I believe one of your videos helped me back then. Thank you for doing it with the micro800 series.

[@TimWilborne]

Thanks for looking Brian. We only keep common items that we use in control panels and I haven't had a panel that required the 2080-MOT-HSC. I had been waiting for an application for it to make this video and ended up needing a Micro850 with the built in high speed counters. Thanks again for trying to support us!

[@LPAtkins]

Hi Tim, As someone who mainly uses Honeywell CEE, your instructional videos on AB PLC are extremely useful. Thanks for putting the time in to create good helpful content.

[@TimWilborne]

Glad you like them!

[@gibbeys]

I absolutely love your videos. I’ve learned so much from them and the encoder simulator is awesome. The only thing I would add is how to configure additional HSC’s…. That stuff is a little difficult to interpret. I was able to incorporate two HSC’s into my project from what I learned. Thank you!

[@TimWilborne]

Yes, I wish the HSC was more intuitive. The issue is that it can be configured for so many different uses that it causes confusion.

[@kimkj9510]

I really appreciate for your training. Why didn't RA make such good information like this video?

[@nando1968can]

Thanks Tim, your videos are so useful,help us a lot.Keep it going

[@TimWilborne]

Glad to hear that!

[@daleo3348]

Hi, Tim. Thanks for this and your numerous other videos that are helping me work with the Micro820. My Micro820 is part of a production tracking system (inputs only with data pulled from PLC's via KepserverEX). I ended up needing a high speed counter to interface to one production machine (tapping into its single phase encoder to calculate its output rate:1595 pulses per rotation @ up to 60 rpm). As you no doubt know, the 820 doesn't have an embedded HSC, so I installed a plug-in module: 2080-MOT-HSC. The process for getting that plug-in high speed counter up and running has proven to be somewhat different (to me anyway) from the experience with the embedded HSC in the '850 presented in this video. It would be interesting (again, to me anyway) to see a video on implementing the HSC plug-in module. If you were to make such a video, I promise I'd watch it. :-) Some of my challenges come from HSCE vs HSC Instructions in CCW. I'm not sure if HSCE is applicable only to the plug-in module or if the (E)nhancements are universal. My newness to the Micro800's and AB in general doesn't help. Or, I may have just tripped my intellectual limit switch... Any additional video guidance in this area would be great. But, I'll keep chipping away at this and will keep watching and appreciating whatever videos you produce.

[@RSTRINGEL]

Hi again Tim. Do you have a video where you explain how to configure it as a simple accumulator up counter? I want to connect a Flow sensor that gives me pulses. Thanks!

[@TimWilborne]

Yes, check out this one I did a few months ago, it is a newer version of this video but I start off with a flow meter. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y3fSeJ-fi7CIfac

[@trevors2041]

Hi Tim, at 16:00 you mention that the reason the encoder counts 4 times per second is because its "quadrature", which isn't entirely the truth. Quadrature merely refers to the fact that the encoder outputs two signals on a 90 degree phase shift (just like how QAM signaling in digital communications is two 90 degree phase shifted signals) as opposed to the Absolute encoder which is a multiple bit output to determine the relative phase. When counting with the quadrature encoder, you can set it in X4 mode (HSCMode=8 as you did) which counts every edge within a cycle, or X1 mode (HSCMode=6) which only counts one edge condition resulting in a count rate equivalent to the frequency of the signal (example of this is in 2080-UM002 on pages 144). So the "Quadrature" portion is the style of encoder (allowing you the ABILITY to count every edge), the "X4" is the reason it counts at four times (or 4 edges) per cycle (as opposed to only counting once per cycle). I suppose it is merely semantics, but it would help clarify the reason for using Mode 6 or Mode 8 depending on the application of the encoder. Quadrature ALLOWS you to count at a rate of 4x per cycle (or have higher accuracy to the degree of rotation than 360/PPR of the encoder, instead giving you 360/4PPR degree of accuracy), but it isn't the "REASON" it counts at that :). Although I am glad I came across your video as I am having a weird issue with the resetting of the accumulated value. I have an application where the encoder is used to allow an operator to turn the encoder (say the encoder is 20 PPR) to scale a motor from 0 to 100%. I do not want the operator to surpass a value of 100% or go below 0%, so I have to stop the count at 0 or 100. Currently when the operator exceeds say a value of slightly over 100 on the encoder, I reset with close to the same steps as you (the manual sure wasn't the clearest about how to reset!) to an accumulated value of 100 (and merely add limits of 0 and 100 to the variable that controls the motor), thus the operator can scale up to 100, but if they start rotating counter clockwise (or reverse) it will immediately start decrementing (as opposed to if I solely limited the motor variable and didn't stop the encoder, the accumulated could exceed say 500 and take many reverse turns to come back before they would start slowing the motor). This works for the most part, but every so often when I exceed the point of 100, and it should reset back to 100 it will instead reset to a value well below 100 (and not always the same number!) and slam the motor to a stop (which sure ain't good). I am thinking of just removing the HSC instruction entirely and going with something similar to your code from "How an Encoder Works. Determining Direction and Position." as this has been driving me mad (and my PPR is very low so I will be able to read it quickly enough)! It's incredibly inconsistent, sometimes it will take hundreds of resets before it will happen so I set a condition to trap a bit in when it occurs, but other times it will occur every reset. All I have to do is turn the controller on and back off and the consistency of it happening will change. I tried using HscCmd=2 to stop the count when exceeded and the count direction is positive (using HSCSTS.CountDir), then move HscCmd=1 when the count direction becomes negative, but they appear to only change that variable relative to the count itself, and not the actual direction the encoder is spinning... Have you ran into this resetting issue? Or do you have a different solution to limiting an encoder count in CCW when using the HSC instruction? Cheers.

[@TimWilborne]

Hum...So you say that I don't know what I'm talking about about encoders without watching my how an encoder works video where I explained exactly what you just said then ask for my help...

[@trevors2041]

​@@TimWilborne I never said you don't know what you are talking about, as I know you have a lot of knowledge in automation and the area in which your videos are made. I am not sure why you felt the need to get defensive. As per your own words in the video: "I'm gonna go through some pitfalls as there isn't a lot of information on it". Maybe someone didn't want it to count at 4x the pulse rate, and only wanted it to count at the PPR and now thinks "Aw crap this is the wrong encoder!". They don't need to divide by 4 in that case, merely change their mode (But you didn't really explain why you chose MODE 8, so I thought that maybe I would mention the ability in the comments) as there is X1, X2 and X4 which could be messing someone up if they didn't realize why their counting may be different from yours (if they had it in a different mode). Your wording of "It's counting at 40 per second, and that's because of Quadrature" as well as at 10:00 where you say "This means it counts when it goes up and down" makes it sound as if you were saying that Quadrature means four counts per cycle, rather than the four counts coming from X4 mode. As I previously said, "I suppose it is merely semantics". I was just saying that the wording you used perhaps left interpretation that "No matter what, a quadrature encoder will always count at 4x the PPR because it's called Quadrature" as opposed to "The setting I used counts each rising and falling edge, but that's not necessarily how it has to be!". Whatever, I guess I didn't give off the right tone over text. I was hoping someone might see the comment and think "Oh, the definition of Quadrature is to two signals being 90 degrees out of phase, not because it counts at 4x the rate! That's is why they call it a quadrature encoder." so the next time they see "Quadrature" on something they'll think "Oh, I know what that is!" but instead my tone came off as a jackass. Sweet

[@tata-sq4uj]

Realy TX for your help.

[@TimWilborne]

You are welcome.

[@chrisriedel235]

Addressing the correct channel is still a mystery to me. With a Micro850 (embedded HSC) it can be DI:00 (CH A), with the same Micro850 and a 2080-MOT-HSC in Slot 1 it should be IO_P1_DI_00 (Ch A). How is that setup? What is the .HscID? It would be nice to add a little video to explain that....

[@TimWilborne]

If I run into an application that I need a 2080-MOT-HSC, I'll see if I can make a video. The HSCIDs are in the help of CCW.

[@RobertOakWilson]

Hi Tim, Thanks for these videos. I can make my encoder work great with the embedded IO, on the 850, but never with the plug in module. My encoder is only $20 with A,B,+,-, and I thought I would buy a better one, like a 847H from Rockwell for the machine and use a 2080 mod hsc plug in module. I've spent days trying to figure this out. I've downloaded a code from Rockwell automation and talked with them several times, but I cant get it to work either. I hate to ask you, but you're the only one that can teach me anything apparently. Have you ever used the 2080 mod hsc plug in module with CCW? If so what function block, and set up features did you use?

[@TimWilborne]

I hate to hear about the trouble you are having. I haven't used one but do know it is a bit more involved. You can't use the HSC instruction from this video.

[@RobertOakWilson]

Thanks Tim, I appreciate you getting back to me so soon. I think maybe I'll try to find a robust encoder that can run on the embedded IO.

[@TimWilborne]

👍

[@jolalla1]

Hi Tim, It was great watching your explainer video..just one thing ...How does the HSC know which digital input to count?..Didnt see that getting configured!

[@TimWilborne]

It depends on the counter number your select.

[@ezneily]

hi Tim, Brilliant video, i managed to get a quad encoder working with a micro830. i couldn't have done it on my own. I also used a wientek HMI working with it. Any chance you could do a video of bit shift registers on the micro830 or 820. Im not a professional programer, just do some small builds at work occasionally. thanks Neil.

[@TimWilborne]

Glad too hear it was helpful Neil!

[@KennyLoh-rx8lw]

Hi Tim, the value show in HMI high speed counter is pulses?

[@jonreemts6919]

First let me say that I really appreciate your videos. I've learned some much from them. You do a great job explaining things. I have a question regarding the HSC instructions. What is the difference in the HSC and HSCE? The HSC isn't available when using the Micro820 2080-LC20-20QBB that I got with your trainer. I have the 2080-MOT-HSC plugin module. From what I've read in the manuals on the module verse a built in HSC on the Micro 850s the plugin module gives you more options on input voltages. I'm using an actuator with a built in hall effect sensor that uses 5 VDC for the sensor and 24 VDC for the motor. I'm trying to get this setup to sense position. I've watched your video "Wire And Configure An Encoder To An Allen Bradley Micro850 PLC" which will help with calculating position but I'm confused on not having the HSC instruction available. Thanks

[@TimWilborne]

Hi Jon, the HSCE instruction allows you many more options, use it. One thing a really like about the 2080-MOT-HSC is as you select the configuration under the plug in module, it gives you examples of how to wire it. Good luck!

[@mitchellpletcher5656]

@@TimWilborne Hi Tim, Regarding Jon's statement about more versatility with the 2080-MOT-HSC, does the built-in HSC input on the Micro850 only work with a 24VDC pulse? Alot of encoders can only be set up for a pulse somewhere between 5V and 15V. Does this mean the built-in HSC input will not be able to see these lower voltage encoder signals?

[@TimWilborne]

@@mitchellpletcher5656 You are correct, 24VDC ONLY on the built in high speed inputs of the Micro850

[@zimbaldinho]

Hi Tim, this Micro800 playlist is one of the best i’ve seen on youtube. But there is something i’m searching and couldn’t find anywhere: BSL/BSR with Micro800/CCW. Do you have plans on making a video about it? There is a lot of content about it on Logix500 but none on CCW. Thanks and greetings from Brazil!

[@TimWilborne]

Yes, it should be recorded in the next few batches.

[@aussiegruber86]

Anyone find the link for this?

[@garyleblanc4256]

Hi Tim. Do you have video on adding a real time clock module for a micro 850 and configuring. Thanks Gary

[@TimWilborne]

Hi Gary, no I don't and I haven't used it but I did recently play with a Spectrum 2080-SDMEMRTC-SC which also includes the RTC and some other nice data logging and program loading features. I should have made some videos on it while I had it, I'll try to next time I have one in the shop.

[@akshaykumarpatil6583]

Hi very nicely explained can you make a video fro structured text and use array function

[@TimWilborne]

Here is one one structured text. We have some coming in working with arrays. www.theautomationstore.com/allen-bradley-micro800-ladder-logic-function-block-and-structured-text-programming/

[@aussiegruber86]

Happy with the micro800 series? Would you recommend them for budget projects?

[@TimWilborne]

Yes I would. The Connected Components Workbench software has come a long ways and has all the capabilities a basic system needs.

[@aussiegruber86]

Thanks for the reply, I use alot of Productivity PLCs and while I am super happy with them you do still have a few clients wanting Allen Bradley (I show them the price difference) but I might have a look into this.

[@reinaldonavarropico]

Muchas gracias

[@TimWilborne]

De nada!

[@adriangellardelectricalser8144]

Hi, do you have any videos on using the high speed counter with pulse flow meters to create a totalizer in ccw?

[@TimWilborne]

The principle is exactly the same except you would change your mode to 0.

[@terrisw05]

hey im using a micro 820 PLC with the add on module (2080-MOT_HSC) when i try to add a HSC i dont see HSC just HSCE Enhanced HSC // Any idea why the option for HSC is not there?

[@TimWilborne]

You would have to use a HSCE for that. If I ever get any hardware to do that video, it's on the list.

[@davidshafferjr.3214]

Do you have a video explaining how to setup an absolute encoder?

[@TimWilborne]

No but typically they would be a 4-20mA input or a networked encoder.

[@davidshafferjr.3214]

@@TimWilborne, really appreciate the reply. Your videos are a big help. If you do decide to make a video on the subject please don’t let me overlook it lol. I have an idea for servo oscillation verse our current and believe an absolute encoder will be perfect for adjusting and building recipes. It’s an ongoing bench test of mine currently. Thanks again!

[@RSTRINGEL]

Can you simulate a High speed counter with the micro850 simulator? Thanks!

[@TimWilborne]

I guess you might come up with some creative code to do that but it's a little too virtual, I don't think it would be a good teaching too.

[@RSTRINGEL]

@@TimWilborne ok I'll try it ..thanks and Merry Christmas!

[@McTrottis]

Is it possible to just use the high speed inputs and direct inputs to trigger a direct output?

[@TimWilborne]

Not sure what you mean by a direct input and direct output Anthony

[@raulcortes2033]

Hello Tim. I have a Micro820 with CCW. The question is what to use to detect if a Fan stops rotating? I want to use a reflective sensor to detect the rotation, don't need to measure the RPMs, only to detect that the rotor stop spinning. Do I use a counter? Thanks for your help in advanced.

[@TimWilborne]

It depends on how fast the blades are moving, too fast and it may not detect the OFF ON transition.

[@gioseppe18]

Hi, Tim. Thank you for all these videos, they have been really helpful to me, specially this one. I have one question, can you help me please. I am using a HSC with a flowmeter with mi current Micro850 this flow meter is connected to input 0, we want to install a 2nd Flowmeter this one will be connected to input 2, what would be the HscID? I got quite confuse here. I have been trying to test the program and the first flowmeter is good but the second is not giving me any count and I think here is where I have my problem.... Excuse my english. I am watching you from Colombia. Thank you again for your videos and help

[@jackalberts4035]

I am having the same issue! Were you able to resolve this??

[@jackalberts4035]

I figured it out. You have to make the HSCid for the second meter "1". The first one is "0."

[@gioseppe18]

@@jackalberts4035 that is great, I was able to solve the problem by using Input 0 for one meter and input 4 for the second meter, I read each meter needs to use at least two inputs in order for this to work, I am going to try to do it the way you did it and see if it works for me. Thanks for the reply 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@LifeHackVice]

@@jackalberts4035 I tried this but sometimes I get 12 counts, 3 counts, 7 counts in the accumulator for one pulse on the input to the PLC. Did you notice that?

[@LifeHackVice]

@@gioseppe18 Using input 4 works perfectly.

[@rixpanapasa8977]

thanks tim..👍

[@TimWilborne]

You are very welcome

[@tartarugabjj6902]

Hi I use hsc end micro 2080-lc50-24qwb The time I’m doing the download I had a fault light plc Error occurred in the hsc configuration Any idea to help me ?

[@TimWilborne]

Probably in the HSC configuration, what is your error code?

[@tartarugabjj6902]

@@TimWilborne oxf840

[@mustafakaracalar3953]

Hello Tim, I have been following you for a long time and I need your help on something. We will connect an encoder to the micro 850 controller and determine the length of a material. Which materials should I buy for this and which commands should I use to measure the length of the material? Can you please help me with this?

[@TimWilborne]

It will be very dependent on the application. Here is a video to help you with the math. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZXSZJeqlNSbb80

[@mustafakaracalar3953]

@@TimWilborne ❤

[@trinhnk257nguyen6]

I love this video, can you teach me somethings. I have a NPN signal from pulse Flow Meter to IO_DI_02 Micro850, can you tell me the parameter

[@TimWilborne]

You just need to change your operation mode to 1, besides this video covers what you need to do.

[@trinhnk257nguyen6]

@@TimWilborne Thank you, i want reset accumulator when set a Ptrig ID=4, but the PLC faults sometime?

[@TimWilborne]

What error do you get?

[@trinhnk257nguyen6]

@@TimWilborne hi bro, how can read 2 encoder from 1 module 2080-mot-hsc without use IO_DI. Is it impossible?

[@virusgaming8353]

Hi, do we to declare which inputs will be used for HSC? or will be automatically i 00-i01?

[@virusgaming8353]

is it mandatory to have a High Speed Counter Plug-in Module?

[@TimWilborne]

No, the Micro850 has high speed inputs built into it...maybe the Micro820 also but I can't recall

[@TimWilborne]

HSC0 will use certain inputs, HSC1 will use others. The specifics depends on the particular PLC.

[@virusgaming8353]

to clarify, let.s say i use a plc lc50-48qbb and i want to use i-07 i 08 as hsc port , how should i call them to hsc? i m very confused . please :D

[@virusgaming8353]

@@TimWilborne so HSC0 will use i00-i01 .right ?

[@SimplifyIt02]

HOW SHOULD I DO IN MICRO820. HSC INSTRUCTION NOT COMPATIBLE ON MICRO820

[@TimWilborne]

The Micro820 doesn't have built in high speed inputs. You would need to use the 2080-MOT-HSC plug in module.

[@jesuscontreras9554]

Thanks Tim. I have a problem with the connection of the 2080-HCS-MOT with your example program. inside the parameter Myappdata.HscID. What would be the number of bit that it should have? Can you help me please.

[@TimWilborne]

It will depend on the particular function you are wanting to use it for. Highlight the instruction and press F1 for all the ID options.

[@amar5269]

Tim may i get you mail ID