sevenoaks plumbing project, adding a low loss header

Client had some major flowrate issues on this one, the original setup has had all sorts of issues since it was initially installed.
With a little theory and experience, we got it going!

[@timmyturbo1000]

Definitely know that feeling of theoretically it will work and questioning yourself at the same time. Nice job well done

[@UnequaledHeating]

Thanks buddy.

[@EliteHydronics.]

That pump had no chance, not only the boiler restriction but all the head loss from those floors 🤦🏼‍♂️ really impressed tony... always chilled and methodical 👍🏻 cheers Dave

[@ranjitpatel496]

This is a great help will help us fit a low loss header for the first time. Amazing video thank you & take care. 🙏

[@getbry7452]

That's a big house and a big system to boot! Thanks for the video. Still trying to get my head around low loss headers tbh but looks like it's a good solution 👏🏻

[@Smart_fix]

Excellent job Tony you are one of the top-pest person in plumbing industry 👍🏼🙂♥️

[@benport6908]

Amazing work mate ! Always learning a lot from you 👍🏼👍🏼

[@UnequaledHeating]

Thanks alot mate, really means alot

[@dominichalliday8929]

Very nice fix, as you say the magna clean will make a good dosing vessel. Keep up the great work!

[@heatpump8566]

Great video, love seeing how others work. Good job well done

[@UnequaledHeating]

Thanks alot Paul.

[@JD-lk5jn]

Enjoyed this. More please!

[@syncrosimon]

With rads that aren’t working I try draining off a litre or two just to get the flow started, sometimes you can get weird air locks in the pipe that just prevent them from getting a flow started. Great video.

[@youngplumb1107]

Great video, I never knew about low loss headers until saw your stuff on instagram, did a bit of research and have used them on 3 different jobs with great success, I know what you mean about doubting yourself when your doing the job but it usually turns out good, keep up the great work, close coupled Tees for me next so fingers crossed 😂

[@UnequaledHeating]

That's awesome to hear mate!! Social media has been great for the industry!!

[@youngplumb1107]

@@UnequaledHeating social media inspired me enough to venture down from aberdeenshire to phex last year at Chelsea, once you start seeing different stuff you get inspired again, even if I've been throwing in pipes and wires for 25 years +

[@UnequaledHeating]

@@youngplumb1107 that's great to hear mate, I've met alot of good people that I call my friends now on the platforms.

[@1000hillas]

Hi It's a fantastic video and a lovely install and very informative. Can I ask a couple of questions please. The shunt pump, if this was installed on a modern combi, would the internal pump be ok and can headers be fitted to all pressurized systems. Eg combi, heat only etc. Not doing installs now but inquisitive to understand. Many thanks Alan.

[@connorevans6914]

Great work, keep the vids up

[@UnequaledHeating]

Thanks pal 👍🏻

[@MrEbe124]

Great video, to the point!! Fair play on install. Not seen the rocol pipe sealing. Not being a knob jockey, but is it Wras approved?

[@duncanmacdonald9584]

nice neat job, what model Magna 1 do you use as i need a decent pump for 17 rads over three floors high ceiling victorian house . cheers

[@veniamindoychev1634]

Hi Tony, Good video! What size clips did you use to fit the imi header?

[@duncanmacdonald9584]

Vailant said that I can install there low loss header up to a distant of 5 meters away from boiler. This will solve a installation place for fitting. I see diagrams where there is nothing connected in-between the header and the boiler for circulation purposes, then everything is connected from the header to different zones. My question is I want to keep zone 1 ch/dhw, ground level circulating . Upper floor zone 2 and loft area and additional circulation pump connected to LLH. Will flow and return. From zone 1 interfere with zone 2 and keep separation when both zones are operating and calling for heat. Flow rate from boiler is 17.1 Lpm . 25/80 pump flow rate of up to 5.7M3/h, your views will be much appreciated

[@BODGE71]

Have you soldered those joints on the pipes because I cant see it anywhere on the edges? Where do you get those stand off fittings for the pipework?

[@mgbroadsterJ]

When you fit the low loss header it will lower return temps .Will this make the boiler ramp up higher ?

[@mmack3286]

Interesting liquid seal just a slight nip up and that's it sealed? Also can you undo the fitting once been sealed?

[@UnequaledHeating]

Yes buddy, holds tight but not a problem undoing.

[@jordandrysdale6317]

Great upgrade to an existing system! What size rubber lined clamps are you using for the header?

[@UnequaledHeating]

53-58mm talons mate 👍🏻

[@ranjitpatel496]

Is the imi header as good or similar to the spirocross.?

[@megaman1806]

Great work as usual mate. I use the Loctite stuff on the joints but it's really expensive there's a much cheaper one in Screwfix but it's DARK GREEN and I would have to be a time-served idiot to let the apprentice loose with that around a customers house. That stuff you use how much do you pay for it? The low loss header is gorgeous I normally decouple the circuits with closely spaced tee's it normally works out cheaper, is the header expensive? I use the system layout in the vid all the time in bigger houses with circulation problems by putting a semi-commercial pump on the heating circuit problem that can occur even when using a variable pump is the noise in the system when most the rads are off. I think a great way to combat this is to put an auto bypass after the second pump to reduce system. The AUTO bypass will have to be adjusted to allow the pump to deal with the circulation issue though otherwise, it's just a dam hinderance. Another way I deal with this kinda problem instead of upsizing the pump is a reverse return BUT you can only run that if the heating is one zone and you have the allowance to run the extra pipe. Splendid work as usual mate I feel like I'm learning a few things from you on your vids I just hope you keep em coming.

[@UnequaledHeating]

I've done a few with cst's with awesome results!! The rapidseal is sometimes a pain to get hold of, even online, and even then the price seems to fluctuate, I got the last load online for £10 a pop which is a really good deal. Thanks for the comments buddy

[@andrewmillwardwatford9410]

When you did your calculations what was the headless through the boiler ? Normally these old boilers are very low headloss and a llh should not be required. At the end of the day you fixed the system and the work man ship is excellent. Hope you are well.

[@boothyktm]

How do you go about calculating head loss on an existing system of this size ? Just had a big quote to do on something similar size. Done my mass flow rate calcs but was unsure on what pump to pick not knowing my head loss. Sorry I know old comment but I watch all your vids so I know you’re still active thanks

[@andrewmillwardwatford9410]

@@boothyktm I don't I just fit a pump and try. Almost always guess it correct but if it's wrong change it.

[@boothyktm]

@@andrewmillwardwatford9410 thanks for reply 👍🏼

[@Heatingandplumbing1]

What thermal imaging camera is that? Nice job by the way

[@UnequaledHeating]

Flir e4 mate, thank you

[@craigwellburn5714]

Maybe a silly question but how long before the system can be filled if you use the rocol rapid seal?

[@UnequaledHeating]

Not silly at all, these were left for about 24 hour's, I'm not sure on the full set time but it's pretty rapid!!

[@craigwellburn5714]

@@UnequaledHeating cheers, just wondering if I could use this and be up and running the same day? I'll check with Rocol. Looks like tidy stuff.

[@mgbroadsterJ]

What does the shunt pump do ?

[@United-Til-I-Die]

Tony have you noticed any issues with the powerflow flux in regards to putting fittings on the pipe after fluxing? Having to force them on lately, annoying AF

[@UnequaledHeating]

No mate, not even on the 35mm, how do you apply it? And what to?

[@United-Til-I-Die]

@@UnequaledHeating i apply it inside the fitting, could it be the abrasive strip grit?? All i know is that all last week i was having to force it on the pipe 😔

[@UnequaledHeating]

Potentially the grit mate, I only flux the pipe, that's what fernox recommended . Maybe try that 👍🏻

[@United-Til-I-Die]

@@UnequaledHeating yhman, cheers, Tony. You need to brush up on your soldering skills mate 👀🤣🤣

[@GD-qu9hr]

@@United-Til-I-Die never apply flux to the inside of the fittings mate

[@noelburke6224]

No need for shunt pump when you have automatic speed control pump and thermostatic mixing valve,

[@AllenHart999]

Amazing work Tony. Number one fan 👍

[@UnequaledHeating]

Thanks Allen, hope you're well mate 👍🏻👍🏻

[@darkknight-jp1xb]

You know red Langdon plumbing apprentice he got employed by pimilo

[@markhoward5780]

Can you explain what the shunt pump is about please .

[@UnequaledHeating]

I'll get a brief explanation sorted 👍🏻

[@Order-in-Chaos]

@Mark.H: Most techs don't know what it's for and how to size it (which defeats the purpose of installing it in the first place) but in a nut shell the shunt pump is used for boiler protection. The boiler has two bodies of water with different temperatures; the hot on top and the cold on the bottom. This temperature difference if it gets high enough it can cause tension in the boiler and cause physical damage to the boiler. The shunt pump is introduced in order to mix the top and bottom bodies by mixing a bit of heated boiler water to the incoming cold water thus keeping the difference safe inside the boiler. Think of it as a thermostatic valve where it mixes two different water temperatures. Also the shunt pump can keep the flue gases coming out of the boiler in vapor form and not condensate back to the boiler and damage the lining.

[@jamiewilliams685]

@@Order-in-Chaos Excellent explanation.

[@Allegedly2right]

Hope your not charging by the hour any questions and you will just ignore them anyway.Cheers big ears.

[@youbeenshamed]

I’m interested in what the cold water is like feeding the unvented cylinders in these large properties ? do they have a really good mains flow rate or are there break tanks and pumps

[@UnequaledHeating]

Just really good pressure on this one I presume, defo no pumps/accumulators. 👍🏻

[@jamiewilliams685]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a shunt pump ?

[@UnequaledHeating]

Hey buddy, a shunt pump is the pump installed on the primary side of a hydraulic break, this circulates the water around the boiler side of the system

[@SuperWayneyb]

🤓👍

[@simonstones1918]

What’s a low lost header? 🤔

[@JordanPhillipsScovell]

Simon Stones simple terms, helps with flow rates on larger heating systems there are plenty videos on youtube that show you more in depth analysis of them

[@K-carbon]

Motorised vavles in a big house such as your working is bad practice to have in as they are simply to restricted thus rads further away from the boiler will never work to there full potential.separate pumps for each zone is the only way to solve issues with rads not working great see it time and time again

[@noelburke6224]

Never in 45 years have had problems with balancing flow rates in any type of heating systems, always remember proper sized pipes and proper flow rates. 👌

[@mmack3286]

Green grass now no grass lol

[@UnequaledHeating]

Haha. Heatings working though 😂

[@Order-in-Chaos]

8:35 "... just simply because it was... the system definitely needed a larger pump, because of a larger pump it definitely needed a header, because of the header it definitely needed a shunt pump ..." Sorry man but you clearly are all over the place with your statements and don't sound like you have a complete grasp on the theories and purpose of the parts you're introducing... The purpose of the boiler is to heat the water, the pumps are sized based on friction, length of pipe, size of pipe... You can introduce a larger pump without having to introduce a header, the header is not in correlation with the size of the pump, also the shunt is definitely not in correlation with the introduction of the header; the shunt can exist without having a header altogether. I explained the purpose of the shunt pump in reply to one of your viewers below (Mark Howard).

[@ryansouter4046]

Are you saying you can have a shunt pump without hydraulic separation? (header or CCT)

[@noelburke6224]

I totally agree with you, system design pipe sizes and flow rates are paramount in the working of the system, there are to many pumps being introduced into systems that are totally unnecessary