Sexism in Christianity: My experience as a Woman - Melanie Trecek-King

[@JooLee-h3z]

Wow. FANTASTIC interview. As a female, I so relate to this woman feeling, even as a child, that her worth was wrapped up in: 1. her virginity 2. finding a husband and serving his interests while suppressing her own 3. how many babies she could pop out and raise Far fewer women would choose this type of limited existence if church didn't drill it into their heads at an early age. It saddens me deeply when I think of all the talent and intellect that is wasted on the planet because of this widely accepted 'norm'. And your guest is right when she says that misogyny is everywhere, not just in the church. The church has simply done an excellent job of co-opting male superiority and scaring girls into thinking it's what a god wants.

[@ThinkingPowers]

It’s incredible how deep that shame goes. Thanks for the kind words.

[@PurpleHeart99]

Love this channel. As a woman, I understand how frustrating the church is. I remember all the gaslighting. They would say, "women can't be leaders but both sexes are equal, we just have *different* roles!". Nope. To say we have different roles because of our gender is not equality. If the religion saw us as equals, we would have equal opportunities. To stay in the cult, you have to not think critically. It's so bad. I still have trauma from the cult.

[@heathersnyder8789]

It’s not the different roles…..It’s that one role is to subject themselves to the other role in everything. That’s what makes it unequal in value. I have been told women are more easily deceived etc. However, Isaac was deceived. Jacob was deceived. How did Jacob NOT know he was sleeping with Leah??? They get a pass. Eve ate fruit and women are forever screwed. Lot’s wife looked back….Pillsr of salt. David committed murder, adultery, and genocide but he’s righteous and is a man after Gods own heart???? Clearly women are NOT valued nor equal.

[@nephone]

If the roles were different but equal, we would have just as many international movements of men fighting to be able to stay at home with the kids. Yet they don't want to switch places. It's like they *have* to convince themselves that all women actually love their role, otherwise they would have to admit they're full of shit and the roles are not in fact seen as equal.

[@PurpleHeart99]

@@nephone Absolutely! Their stance reminds of the "separate but equal" laws in the 1950s in America. The races were separated but it was claimed they were equal. We obviously know that was not the case. And Christians will agree that racism is wrong. At least most of them. But then when it comes to sexism the doors are wide open for that. My journey with faith has been insane. I come and go within the Christian faith. I like Jesus but I don't like the religion. People follow the words of Paul a lot more than the words of Jesus which is concerning. I feel like my value is decreased when I follow religion. At least the abrahamic ones.

[@zach2980]

The phrase “controlling women’s reproduction” should be utilized more frequently these days. It more accurately reflects our new reality.

[@Jenna_Miles]

Afraid that reality isn’t “new” at all, partner 😬

[@zach2980]

@@Jenna_Miles women’s reproductive rights restrictions are new to my state. But I guess I kinda get your point.

[@Jenna_Miles]

@@zach2980 Oh well in that case, fair enough. I was thinking more generally ig! ☮️

[@zach2980]

@@Jenna_Miles agreed

[@Michael-cb3uw]

Controlling women and men's sexuality by encouraging negative stigma... I think religion creates negative influence

[@Sh4peofmyheart]

My experience with the church (in northeast Missouri) was similar to yours, although I started going to church, as an adult, to satisfy my ex-husband. I always found it interesting--and very much problematic-- that, while Jesus ostensibly died for our sins, he didn't (apparently) wipe out the sin from the garden of Eden, because women were still looked upon as less than men. There is so much contradictory information involved in Christianity, especially. I can't wrap my brain around the idea that people can't see it for what it is, but, then I can't figure out how /I/ got as indoctrinated as I did, either.

[@funshinebear4822]

All sin - except that one! Funny, I never thought about that.

[@ThinkingPowers]

Wow, I never thought about that! All sin except for the one that condemns women to a life of servitude. Wow.

[@Sh4peofmyheart]

​@@ThinkingPowers it's absolutely astounding the lengths the patriarchy will go to, in order to continue the narrative designed to "keep women in their place". Incidentally, I'm no longer involved with any sort of religion. I consider myself a feminist, and an athiest, and the older I get, the more comfortable I am with that.

[@notyourtypicalcomment2399]

Where does it say or teach that women are less than men? Doesn’t the Bible tell husbands to die for their wives? If she’s less valuable why would he die for something less valuable than him? Also it says in Christ there is neither male nor female but we are all one in Christ Jesus.

[@awpetersen5909]

We as human beings need community. It is a survival drive. We sacrifice our common sense to that!

[@Emanuel_careyWX-WRI]

Melanie is awesome! I remember finding her a few months ago. I went from “believing”, to atheist, to belief… and after having my daughter, I absolutely swung to; “nope not my daughter”. I wonder if I’d be like that if I had a son. But having to look at my daughter- a day old, a 6 months, a year; then say, she is a sinner. I couldn’t do it. I also hated going to church as a kid, and am very ticklish. But I mastered being able fake sleep through being tickled, only while sleeping through.

[@Muhluri]

That's a great thought exercise. I have a newborn niece and thinking about it, I don't see how that child has done anything wrong (except poop all over the bed 😂)

[@paulms309]

Though it's hard to hear about the misogyny in atheist spaces, I appreciate hearing Melanie's interview.

[@JooLee-h3z]

Look at atheist/apologist debates, discussions, round tables and so on. How many women do you see? Of course, an apologist would likely refuse to debate a woman.

[@James-ms2mx]

Tim, I have to thank you for all of your time and work but especially for the stress that you’ve been willing to endure in the pursuit of truth. One thing that has kept me watching your videos is the obvious tension/stress (or whatever the most accurate adjective is) that you have undergone and even when I thought you might be deluded, something about your sincere, almost pleading tone, along with the obvious fatigue in your eyes, nagged me to keep listening. I know you’ve alluded to major family upheaval that this has caused but you’ve soldiered on and for that, I am grateful. While I cannot say that I have 100% jumped aboard this deconstruction ship, I will probably be there soon. The most recent video I watched with truthsurge was very eye opening. I went to his channel and have been listening to the “excavating the tomb” playlist and what he is saying is almost impossible for an honest person to deny. Sorry to write so much because I know you get a lot of comments and it might feel overwhelming. I just felt compelled to say that your work is noticed and very much appreciated. Your friend, James

[@I_Am_Monad]

My daughter and son-in-law are classical musicians. Their cats are Berlioz, Mendelsohn, and Rimsky-Korsakov. However, none of the cats chose to be classical musicians when they grew up. Go figure.

[@ThinkingPowers]

Our cat Gustav Mahler chose not to as well, but he did have a certain temperament. 🤣

[@pats8219]

1:40:00 This can explain why people don’t leave any belief system or bad situation (marriage, church, cults, team alignment/tribalism). Like Tim did, can you imagine believing something for over 50 yrs and they blowing up your whole world and potentially watching your whole support system implode. That fear is enough to keep you bound to an unhealthy situation.

[@butterfly23481]

Tim, I just want to say I really appreciate how you have woven in the mythology idea into all of your interviews. Your channel is the first place I've ever heard that and has helped point me to research further. I really look forward to hearing more about this in your future projects.

[@christahewitt2758]

What a great guest and interesting conversation, thank you for sharing Melanie’s experience and making a place for women’s experiences growing up in these toxic religious environments. Thank you for having this guest and sharing her story.

[@teachingwithreason1741]

Her statement, “Confidence is not a good indicator of being correct.” Can I get that on a tshirt and stickers please?!?

[@mnag3046]

I am infinitely better with out god I forgive I tolerate I love I understand morality and try to live the best way possible I’m happy with out regrets or fear of retribution Because I decided it! and not because I’m commanded to do so It took me a long time to get here and I’m not going back to believing in mythology.

[@evianwahter]

I'm interested in a little conversation, about this. I have never done anything other than put time in to understand. It didn't always makes sense then one day I realized I was building something and I call it the patterns of infinite. God In my view would simply be a progression from personification of the heart to personification of infinite ultimately serving the purpose of personification of control.

[@mnag3046]

@@evianwahter Hi I think if you focus out and see the wider picture you start to realize that when a belief becomes the undisputed truth without any evidence to support it that becomes very dangerous I personally arrived at my crossroads and had to make a hard decision as to what I was going to believe moving forward It took a lot of research and after 4 years I walked out on my life long faith of Christianity And like I stated on my original comment I know live a much fuller life and I have no regrets as to the path I chose. I hope this is helpful to you

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

total package! A critical thinking course starting from the witch trials is just what the country needs. Will try to find her platform. I think i'm in love!

[@ThinkingPowers]

🙏😊

[@karlu8553]

The whole conversation was good. I especially want to go back and listen to the end section on critical thinking skills and how we arrive at our beliefs, including the elephant + rider analogy and the witchcraft trials illustration

[@flowermedow]

I hate the fact they use an ancient book written by men entirely to say how women should behave

[@8784-l3b]

She used to sit under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim; and the sons of Israel went up to her for judgment. -excerpt Judges 4 A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin.

[@wernerstapela4616]

@flowermedow and, possibly as important, compiled only by men (originally in the 300's), resulting in the current canon. So, to put it bluntly, they decided waht went in and what was left out.

[@dantallman5345]

Great interview. Just had a quick visit to Melanie’s channel.and subbed. Loved the elephant-rider metaphor.

[@Wren_Farthing]

Thanks for the "belief vs. worldview" distinction, Tim. That's a useful template to engage for a lot of conversations.

[@essenceoneessence]

OMG!! I’m totally dreading my family reunion this summer! I’m on the planning team and this is the first one since I left Christianity. I had to come out to my aunt because of this. We’re close and we’re the main planners but during a meeting she offered that I “open us up in prayer”. I did. It’s surprisingly easy to pray now that I don’t care about it. I used to be hard on myself about my words. Now I know it’s all BS and genuinely do not care. But I didn’t want to do it again so before the next meeting I had to let her know. Also, we’re also planning for the 3rd day activity and before we go there with the church thing I felt compelled to put it out there. Some members are ministers and I don’t feel like dealing with them or coming out to them. They’re extreme. Now that my aunt knows it’ll be easier to keep them from taking over. But oh the dread!😬

[@zach2980]

Her bit on the elephant and the rider was excellent. I bet she’s a fantastic teacher.

[@JooLee-h3z]

Yeah I connected to that too. Really great analogy.

[@bobbarron1920]

Awesome interview! I love Melanie’s approach to teaching critical thinking. I am a Ph.D. chemist who’s scientific life used critical thinking on an everyday basis to solve physical problems, yet I did not deconvert until I was 67 because I did not apply critical thinking to religion in the same way. Fortunately, my doubts piled up and eventually the floodgates opened and I was out. I have already subscribed to her channel.

[@Bryan198026]

Even at age five religion never made sense to me. Here we are thirty-nine years later and if anything it makes even less sense now. One of the things I hate most about the big three religions in particular is that they foster such a toxic view of the human condition.

[@pineapplepenumbra]

Same here. I couldn't understand how otherwise intelligent adults could fall for such blatant, creepy, gay pap (until I learnt about the awful, insidious power of brainwashing). My mum could have easily joined Mensa, yet she believed in it completely and had numerous books on the subject. To her credit, though, as soon as I was old enough to be left home alone, she didn't make me go to church, but schools still tried to ram that grossly offensive, hypocritical, corrosive shit down our throats.

[@Michael-cb3uw]

One of the things I hate about it is my family is brainwashed into loving magical thinking and conspiracy theory over just real human interaction

[@zanzer386]

Fantastic talk and I just want to say thank you both for the succinct educational explanations. And I absolutely agree with the triggering that happens when I see/hear those same psychological child abuses taking place

[@zanzer386]

Btw I hardly ever do this but I just followed Melanie on every platform! Keep up the brilliant work

[@ZenWithKen]

I've never connected belief in a god with something like American's being against universal health care. That that mind set that pushes you to belief could also push you to denying the benefit of affordable health care. It's a fascinating insight. What an awesome chat! Thanks for sharing.

[@james9524]

I grew up in the Evangelical Lutheran Church, and when I was a kid, the divisive issue was whether to allow women to be ordained as pastors. One side argued that women were just as qualified as men, and ordaining women is the fair, just, and right thing to do. The other side said the the Bible states that only men should be pastors, and both sides were right. Women make fine pastors, and the bible is clearly opposed to it. Eventually women were allowed to be ordained and a lot of people left because of it.

[@realhealthrealwealth]

This is one of the best bestests ❤

[@amyeck3870]

I ran into the same issues that Melanie did after leaving Christianity for the same reason! F the patriarchy!

[@amandabrown7280]

Great video! I loved where towards the end you guys talked about how beliefs are built and how to decipher truth. I would KILL to take a class taught by Melanie, she seems so full of wisdom! Tim, thank you for a great video!

[@Emanuel_careyWX-WRI]

Not all conspiracy theorists are religious. But all religions hold conspiratorial beliefs. 1:09:27 I won’t kick my daughter out until she’s ready to leave, but she will be her own person. My parents let me live at home until I was 27

[@kathrynyoung3362]

The letters of Paul, and his clear hatred of women, was the first thread I pulled on that eventually led to my deconversion.

[@kevinbalmer-dw2ms]

Great stuff again Tim! When she was talking about the elephant and the rider analogy for the brain I instantly thought about my favorite book Everything is F*cked, A Book about Hope. The way he describes it is a rational mind and a feelings mind both driving a car. I cant recommend it enough and this book “literally” (pun intended) sparked my love for reading and the big questions. I especially think you would like it Tim. Keep up the great work and thank you!

[@johnfox9169]

This woman rescued herself from a mindless existence centered on theism. Good for her. I am an engineer AND scientist by profession, and early on I rejected religion as anything dealing with "reality ". The Abrahamic religions are brutal toward women. Unfortunately, women are more likely to believe/ practice religion than are men. This lady can help remedy that in her small way.

[@letahamilton]

Another great conversation

[@annemariededekind6271]

Tim, what is so very disturbing in Num 31 is the fact that the virgins Israel took from the Midianite war, was distributed like the animals to the soldiers, Levites and Priest. The Israel men could only use virgins for their sex life, therefore they took only virgins. Woman was treated like animals and belongings. When I finished my matric, I wanted to study 7 years to become a preacher like my dad....but my dad said: "No, woman are not allowed on the pulpit, teaching". My interest in the Bible never fainted. I studied it fervently. Thanks to studying the bible each year from cover to cover, I had many questions and deconverted at an advanced age, realizing that it can not be true. Thanks for your program.....love it.

[@somersetcace1]

It is disturbing the amount of Christians in 2024 who say things like, "The country went down the drain when we gave women the right to vote." Just goes to show you that our society is a long way from `healthy.`

[@kenofken9458]

Most of the people who say that are incels in addition to being Christian, but either way, the Christian Taliban definitely exists.

[@JooLee-h3z]

There are plenty of politicians who would love to take that right away. And there are women who would actually vote to lose the vote.

[@somersetcace1]

@@JooLee-h3z I was a teenager in the late 1970's early 80's and I really thought we'd be long past this by now. I was wrong, unfortunately.

[@pineapplepenumbra]

@@somersetcace1 I'm a bit younger, but used to be surprised how people much younger than me still had/have such incredibly backward attitudes.

[@heathersnyder8789]

Black women in the USA only got the right to vote in 1965. 🙈

[@johnfox9169]

My wife abandoned her Catholic upbringing partly because of their dictates on the role of women. Societal enculturation plus religious indoctrination are primarily to blame for some women seeing their roles severely proscribed. Time will hopefully change this but it MUST be fought for.

[@jillhughes9009]

Good story, im so sad I didnt see how wrong my indoctrination was til in my 60s-- just 2years ago. I bought it ALL, especially that I as a woman will always be less than a Man. Only in a deep dive about those "crazy" Mormons did I realize what I had belived from toddler age was just as crazy! Still cant tell any of my family who are staunch Christians including my spouse.

[@celebs007]

Great show Tim

[@amyeck3870]

This was really great! Thanks!

[@Angela-nr7jx]

Im absorbing everything like a sponge. Im black and a woman and a deconstructing Christian. Imagine my fear but i have to do to either be a more effective Christian or a beautiful atheist. I just am agnostic at this point. I thouroughly enjoy your videos

[@onedaya_martian1238]

Virtual hugs through the internet ! It may seem lonely sometimes, but the world and relationships become much more precious and amazing. Reach out to others, be good and learn that others project onto others when they are confused and not curious. Best regards.

[@FoursWithin]

Agnosticism has a wonderful beauty all of its own. ❤ In some ways it has more value than atheism since atheism only concerns one area of thought. A person can be agnostic about almost anything.

[@helencahn7293]

Excellent interview!!! I commend both Melanie and aTim for their ability to examine their own beliefs and to model critical thinking.Thanks to Melanie for her work in educating young people and others about critical thinking, the philosophy of science and about how and why misinformation is created and promulgated.

[@essenceoneessence]

Melanie is literally me! I felt the same, that you can be a good Christian while being a horrible person at the same time. Good is whatever Yahweh says is good. Bad is whatever Yahweh says is bad. The only abomination in the Bible is consensual sex. Not genocide. Not slavery. Not rape. The morality of the Bible is the worst!

[@ThinkingPowers]

😊😊😊

[@lenniebarrere4586]

I think humanity realized paternity about 10,000 years ago and all the goddesses became gods overnight

[@aliceputt3133]

The agricultural civilizations were more even handed with Gods and Goddesses. It's the herding people that brought it extreme Patriarchy. They based it on studs breeding. The Israelites were goat and sheep herders. Women = breeding stock.

[@FoursWithin]

" Teach skills, not facts " This is an awesome teaching strategy ! You just never know what youre going to be introduced to when listening to these interviews. Thank you both 👍

[@karlhalvorson]

I had a neighbor that named his dog Askhim so when you asked him what his dog's name was he would say...

[@T-41]

The Bishop of the ELCA (Lutherans) is female , and it is common for congregations to have very competent women pastors. Of course other sects also have women clergy. Sects and congregations that refuse women this opportunity are missing out.

[@Stephanie-ni6zc]

Great conversation!

[@UrbanERecycling]

Love this interview! I tried to watch one of your Harmonic Atheist videos once a day. Sometimes it takes me two days. Melanie interviewed you. That was great.

[@cavefacts2660]

what an impressive person.

[@paulthew2]

Great interview, Tim. Your guests lately have been really interesting. They often are, of course, but I've really liked the latest group. Having someone who is now a biologist, and a teacher, allows another fascinating view of the religious mindset. Keep up the good work.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Thanks, Paul!

[@deborahabc4117]

I very much enjoyed this interview.

[@pineapplepenumbra]

If my girlfriend wanted to get married and wanted me to change my surname to hers, I would have no problem with that whatsoever. If I was going out with someone with a crap surname, then I might have a problem with it.

[@ThinkingPowers]

If my last name had been Crap, I would’ve changed it in a heartbeat. 😂

[@pineapplepenumbra]

@@ThinkingPowers I think most people would.

[@wernerstapela4616]

Teach your children how to think, as opposed to what to think. Most parents target the latter.

[@dancancro5524]

Where is Bulemia/Bolemia? I found a Bulemia in Kenya, but that doesn't look like a place big enough to have signature last names. Google Maps wants to know too.

[@ThinkingPowers]

Ha! It’s Bohemia, which is currently in the Czech Republic.

[@dancancro5524]

@@ThinkingPowersoh good. I was afraid my list of travel destinations just got longer.

[@FoursWithin]

Yeah I was confused about hearing of this new city that sounds like a teenage girl shamefully puking.😮 Thanks for the clarification.

[@dancancro5524]

If you kind of stand up in your seat to get a better view of what's behind you, that makes parallel parking a lot easier. I just use the right side mirror at the beginning to get the car close but not too close to the car in front of your spot.

[@ThinkingPowers]

I’m waiting for a car that parallel parks itself. 😂

[@KeithBottrell-m6i]

I had to research which western Iowa town you lived in during your youth. I was so surprised-I lived just outside of Missouri Valley for many years. I am enjoying your interview so much.

[@StarseedShan]

Just subscribed to Melanie's channel. Tim, your work is absolutely timely and necessary, especially in regards to our elections in November. The Christian right is a menace and a threat to common decency and humanity. So much appreciate your work. I was raised Catholic, and I very much renounce the shame based, patriarchal teachings. It is so harmful and damaging to our humanity. Our conscience, our love, and our spiritual impulses are part of our powerful nature, in my opinion. And I have not lost my spirituality, in spite of being raised in the church.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Thanks, Shannon! Please feel free to add me on FB if you'd like and let me know if you'd like to consider an interview sometime. facebook.com/harmonictim

[@StarseedShan]

@@HarmonicAtheist Hi Tim. Wow, so generous and kind of you to offer an interview sometime. You have a warm, gracious, and patient manner in your interviews. The sessions are really brilliant therapy sessions. And your guests are so knowledgeable and thoughtful. It would honestly be a thrill to get to talk to you. How lucky we are that you left the church, and have made yourself available to thinking, caring people who are looking for healing. I don't do facebook, but love watching you on You Tube. Thank you for your essential, important work.

[@rachactually6884]

This channel introduces us to many ideas and educates us all to many different ideas…while keeping us all skeptical and pro humanity/all species:) I’m dumbfounded how she escaped all “mainstream Christianity”??

[@rachactually6884]

She’s straight and white and gets all the privilege that comes with that. Not to dismiss her experience but, c’mon🎉

[@ruporter9834]

stunning conversation on so many levels/thank you so much/

[@michaelestrada2772]

Soon after changing my worldview, I felt a weight lift from my shoulders. I felt that this whole time I’d been living a lie and was actually “the bad guy”, but I’m finally seeing the light and am changing. It felt so humbling and like I was ready to learn about this new lifestyle that was in front of me. It only lasted for a moment, and I soon noticed that this was the same sensation that new Christians describe upon conversion. They attribute it to the Holy Spirit, but I felt it after leaving Christianity. Did anyone else experience this after joining and/or leaving the faith?

[@joygibbons5482]

Yes. I regularly am flooded with a feeling of joy and wonder at life as a direct result of letting go of god. It feels like a rebirth and as if in some sense I’ve finally “arrived”

[@johnhavel7685]

Also purity culture and the patriarchal structure and all that I didn’t really start waking up to until a couple years ago but I’m still realizing new things about all that all the time. I wasn’t raised in one of the super intense purity churches like many other people but it still affected me in a major way as a man I can only imagine how traumatizing it would be for women and especially so in the super hardcore type churches.

[@williamjohns9322]

What, you haven’t watched Cheers?

[@theroadlesstraveled3993]

Feminism becomes a religion of its own when you allow it to impact your world view to point that you are triggered by and judge other women for their choices. When you see yourself as superior in your own position, you are not helping your cause. She seems very angry when she speaks and in her facial expressions, which tends to be the driving force for so many feminists unfortunately. Thats a shame b/c feminism has an important place and such potential to continue to change things for the better. We as women need to show compassion for one another and encourage eachother to become the best versions of ourselves, however that looks individually. There is no one size fits all for any of us. When we shame and belittle sahms for example, we teach the younger generations of girls that if they choose that, they are less than, and in order to live a meaningful life they must have a career or not be a mother at all. How's that any different than the indoctrination of any other religion? She had some good insights in general, but I needed to address that. That whole side of feminism needs to stop. It's damaging. Tim, you are incredible, as always. Love your channel!

[@k.a.29]

I was thinking the same thing! I'm an atheist, homeschooling mom, and I want to be doing nothing more than what I am now. I actually regret the first 3 years of my sons life where I felt like I had to go to work and not lose my career to motherhood. In a way, I feel like the feminist movement is what made me think i had to work. I regret that time so much and would do anything to get it back! Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[@theroadlesstraveled3993]

@@k.a.29 I don't know what I am, still figuring it out 😄, but I am definitely all for each of us doing what we feel is best for us and our family, regardless of society's expectations. I did the whole career thing too and when my son was 4 and I was about to have my daughter, I decided to try the sahm thing. I loved it! I love the flexibility, time for travel/hobbies/learning new skills/volunteering, not to mention the time I've had with my kids...priceless. We also homeschool because I wanted to give my kids more than what the public school system has to offer (ever read Dumbing Us Down by John Taylor Gatto?). My kids are almost 20 and 16 and they are incredible humans. I can't imagine life any differently. But I would never shame a mom for working and sending her kids to school. Thanks for your reply! 🙂

[@missinterpretation4984]

If the women who are believers want that stay at home wife life, then fine, but I never hear them saying that. I hear them saying that’s how all women should live. Huge difference. And the women where I go to church would say the same thing yet they’re miserable.

[@helencahn7293]

I am so sorry that people did embrace the satanic panic. I remember it, but my social circles considered it very silly (I was always a humanist). I just could not imagine who would think it was real, sadly now I see that there were people genuinely hurt by this phenomenon. My heart bleeds for those who were subjected to such destructive beliefs, even while accepting that those who imposed them might have had good intentions.

[@lilafeldman8630]

I can understand what you're saying about women choosing to stay home, homeschool, homestead. I always dreamed of that kind of life. And yet, it was all a fantasy, a fantasy of the life I wished that I could have. I believe that what it comes down to, is being in the lifestyle in a healthy way. The women you've known who are happy in that life, it's because they are in it in a healthy way. They've learned to develop a healthy sense of self within that value system. As opposed to women who are being abused. Women who are in a place of weakness and dependency. Sadly, there are a lot of women like that. They are in the lifestyle from a place of control and dependency. But then, where does that leave women for whom that isn't their life? What about "career women?" Or women for whom it just doesn't work out? It leaves us on the outs, second best in the kingdom of God.

[@TMK687]

“Studied biology at UNO.” Wow, what are the odds? So did I.

[@ThinkingPowers]

Wait, really?!?

[@johnhavel7685]

Oh my goodness conspiracies are so fun once I made one about fish being preseasoned in the ocean as a joke and how the salt treaty was really about pre seasoning the fish and salting the ocean it was pretty funny but completely absurd and it’s fun to see how you can tie all these insane things in to them.

[@teachingwithreason1741]

My first step toward questioning was related to gender, why are men’s prayers different from women’s? (Based on teachings in my church)

[@williamjohns9322]

I would argue that misogyny comes from religion. I am thinking of the curses that were doled out by god when he kicked Adam and Eve out of Eden. I suspect that older religions were more female dominated because there is one thing magical that women can do and we had no idea how that happened then. Also there are still female shamans in many cultures.

[@wernerstapela4616]

The concept of "outing oneself to family and friends" is really weird to many Europeans.

[@lilafeldman8630]

The bizarre thing about the Roman Catholic Church is that it's very patriarchal but the men are celibate. The same attitudes towards women exist within the Protestant world but in protestantism it's expected that men get married. Singleness is seen as strange and unnatural. When celibate men are patriarchal it's just creepy.

[@jdmmg4904]

👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽

[@MultiCappie]

Teach skills, not facts: 1. Critical thinking 2. Information literacy 3. Science literacy

[@KTB2199]

Went to Bible college and returned an atheist! Talk about taking a different direction in life.

[@williamjohns9322]

My brain is being blown multiple times here. If you are a mother and you cannot teach men over 16, how can you be a mother? Does the father do all the parenting of boys?

[@johnhavel7685]

The thing you said about global warming is kinda what I think I don’t deny any of it being the case because you can’t really argue with the data but I’m not certain that it’s been well established that it is in fact a bad thing overall. So for me it is an issue we should look at but not nearly as pressing as human caused habitat loss or pollution by persistent chemicals and micro plastics deforestation and soil degradation poaching causing animal extinction. These things are far more pressing in my opinion and likely to cause far worse issues much quicker than the planet warming a couple degrees overall. Certainly global warming will probably change how we can inhabit the planet and where but I’m not convinced yet that it’s as pressing an issue as all the other things especially when we know that it has happened many times before and everything ended up fine.

[@missinterpretation4984]

Asking religious men if they’d change their name or how they’d feel if they were treated the way women are, I don’t think works because they don’t view us as equal. It’s like asking me how I’d like it if I had to pee in the front yard every morning. Obviously I’d be humiliated but I think it’s fine for my dog. And I love my dog! But he’s different than me. I’m convinced that’s how they see us. The rape in the Bible, being property, etc. it’s fine because that’s what we’re here for as women.

[@Bee-lc3tz]

Who is this guy? Is he trying to convert her?

[@mr.c2485]

I grew up attending a small Nazarene church in northern ohio. I was taught the heaven/hell thing, but none of the stuff you two are talking about. I’m jealous! You guys got the really cool sh*t…. Any snake handling?

[@AriLehman-st7gn]

Her name thing was interesting and if she never has kids, it works fine but everyone did that and had kids, names would be ridiculously long.

[@FoursWithin]

Plenty of kids in the world already have ridiculously long names. And many of them appear extremely proud of their length.

[@williamjohns9322]

Wait, you haven’t seen the Jerk?

[@mpress469]

As our timeless "Mother of God" (mother and son) iconography suggests, matriarchal and patriarchal spirituality are inseparable and coexist through an understanding of God's eternal cyclical nature. Represented by the serpent in many creation myths, the living cycle has a trinity of a beginning (head), a middle and end (tail). As above so below, the sexes were created in the image of God's cyclical nature where Mother is the head and opening to all beginnings and Father holds the tail to all endings (through which the sowing of seeds allow for the next great matriarchal rebirth).The joining of the two (symbolized by the Ouroborus or the marriage ring) is the sacred union needed in assuring the creation and continuation of new life cycles. To speak of the present day God as "Our Father" is simply an admission to our collective positioning within the bigger cycle. As all mothers have direct experience with the creator quality of birthing, so is the direct experience of rebirthing the divinity within (baptism) belong to that which is spiritually matriarchal. (John 3, verse 3-8). Sekhmet statues (ancient Egyptian) carry most of their weight in symbolic memory of what was a mother culture dedicated to the direct experience of baptism. As the leg shaped hairlocks extend from maternal breasts to the womb of rebirth, the lioness's head proportions are such that they highlight the bust of a second animal figure. The Lioness's ears as eyes and eyes as nose (nostrils) brings to life the figure of a reptile. 'Neath the halo headress of the solar egg, the lioness's egg fertilization process being internal (Set) and the reptile's egg fertilization process being external (Setting), such being key components to the safety of entering the trans-egoic or "born again" state. The life threatening fear associated with the predatory nature of a lion and/or crocodile encounter are reflective of the intense ego death experiences associated with the transpersonal awakening process. In spiritually matriarchal times, illumination could be seen as wearing the false beard (ancient Egyptian funerary "ego" death mask) as the high state of cyclical self knowing; high awareness of both our upper matriarchal half and our lower (later) patriarchal half (compared with a mini lower body replica, an "as above so below" tail end beard extension); in full recognition of her civilizational Underworld; her inevitable cyclical destiny. The male pharaoh wears his beard tapered in reverse, indicating a pointing upwards towards the patriarchal head, divine representative of God's tail end cycle. Mary's anointing and wiping of Jesus's feet with her hair can then be seen as "Head to tail" (toe) imagery as she descends her matriarchal head to his patriarchal feet, thus reenacting the high understanding of the divine cyclical process. (John 12, verse 3) To carry the Ankh (now the female symbol ♀️) was perhaps to symbolically carry that upper and lower understanding. As the upper matriarchal womb symbolised the fertile birthing of civilization, below, the now Christian cross is carried to place emphasis on the lower (later) "End Times" Father principle of the great cycle. Lord Ganesh, the elephant headed Hindu diety, displays a cyclical head to trunk symbolism and points to the Mother head of his matriarchal elephant society. Ganesh (like the elephant) wears God's cyclical nature on his face. A whole temple was dedicated to Hathor (ancient Egyptian diety), who is the matriarchal "Uterus" personified. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGHQYa2AiKp5gZI "See all women as mothers, serve them as your mother. when you see the entire world as the mother, the ego falls away. See everything as Mother and you will know God." - Neem Karoli Baba "My son, keep thy father's commandment and forsake not the law of thy mother" - Proverbs 6 : 20

[@leighs.9463]

Yes, when i found the atheist community on KZbin in the mid 2010s, i found so much misogyny there. I was disheartened in the same way as Melanie.

[@sheesh3165]

I'm genuinely interested in traits they showed. Are based off the church teaching? Is it our current culture or something else 🤔?

[@TRSouza-q1h]

Sexism and misogyny among atheists is not common. I live in New England and i know many atheists in this region so i cannot imagine who you would have spoken with that gave you that impression.

[@davidjw926]

A lot of the reasons you cite for becoming an atheist have been refuted. At best they're not derived from primary sources. Also evolution is not incompatible with Genesis. Try researching a little deeper.

[@Thesortvokter]

Thanks. Such a moving episode

[@UrbanERecycling]

Trigger!!! Trigger!!! Trigger!!!

[@Mr.PeabodyTheSkeptic]

Arms held out In your Jesus Christ pose... Like I'm driving in the nails -Soundgarden

[@Pomni740]

The new testament is sexist. The old testament is not sexist.