Shadow Generations (Part 1) - Sonic Was Always Good

[@ChadMorningWood]

Radical Highway is officially the Green Hill Zone for Shadow

[@sugarsmile7852]

The difference is radical highway is the last level and the not the fisrt level

[@yesuhh6855]

But in a good way

[@ChadMorningWood]

@@sugarsmile7852 Not when you get jump scared in it by black doom in every level 💀

[@Newhouse56]

@@sugarsmile7852now im imagining a Sonic game with Green Hill as the final level

[@sidequest2230]

​@@ChadMorningWoodI personally liked the motif... Also it's just this one game. Unless next game has shadow in radical highway again it is hardly the same

[@commonsensessbu4380]

Pariah definitely wrote off the time attack too soon because of the chaos meter and his overall boost fatigue. The best runs are still taking the most skilled routes whilst just killing enemies along the way. He also didn't experiment with the movement at all which is suprising as pariah usually delves deep into the movement system. The chaos spear made for some pretty cool skips due to its momentum conserving properties and he never even experimented with the quickstep slide to improve his movement speed. I think this has some of the best speedrunning in the series and its sad to see pariah never got into it.

[@Whyisthis-t9b]

This review came out pretty close to the game so he prolly didn't have much time to experiment with that stuff.

[@sonicfan39]

surprised he didn't spend more time on the time attack I guess he wanted release this video on the official release day

[@Fairy-Uvinq]

​@@Whyisthis-t9b considering who he is, he should have then waited to release it

[@Pariah6950]

I did experiment with the movement. That's how I learned about the reduced air drag from neutral jumping. I just didn't discover the other stuff.

[@RingsRhythm]

To be honest, you made a lot of good points, but I have to say Shadow the Hedgehog did its job well. It offered solid gameplay, good level design, and decent bosses (though the presentation definitely helped). The only downside is that they didn’t do more with it. They could’ve added more levels, developed a story that actually builds suspense and emotion, or integrated the remaining bosses for story-driven reasons-the possibilities are endless. The thing I’m most pleased about is that, thanks to its current sales (1 Million Copies Day One ) and ratings, the next Sonic game is likely to have a much larger scale and budget (hopefully, this ages well)

[@gessekaii]

It's so strange that Sonic Team decided to not include any levels from Shadow 05, yet at the same time acknowledge its existence with the collectibles. I get that they didn't want the gun gameplay back for Shadow Generations, but they could've easily remade the levels with the doom powers instead as the gimmicks for those levels.

[@bannabrain]

This may be an excuse but I feel it was A because the enemies would be black arms but in this game they are invincible and also in this game black doom is rebuilding the black arms but if there was a level with a large amount of his army it wouldn’t make sense

[@bannabrain]

Furthermore it would confirm what the true story was is and that would be complicated

[@shadowofdimentio4618]

The real reason is most likely assets and budget. It explains why we got a frontiers level but not a Shadow 05 level. They didn’t have to make new assets apart fromt he more basic ones they did for the other stages.

[@clairemcdaid4310]

I mean you could argue the ark is technically a shadow level aswell as an adventure 2 level

[@existential_narwal9257]

Maybe they didnt want to bring back human enemies

[@Ratscallion_exe]

15:52 Doom Wings have a separate, dedicated speed run category **It will not count for wings OFF option** Edit: Did you all complete Space Colony ARK : Act 2 without wings >:) ...'cause I didn't. :I **Yet**

[@Ivan210bluboi]

Yeah? I mean, he never said there wasn't

[@Fairy-Uvinq]

@@Ivan210bluboi so why be annoyed by it when there is an option for him?

[@Ivan210bluboi]

​@@Fairy-Uvinq I don't know? My name's not Pariah pal, I'm also not trying to defend him or anything, I was justing pointing that out

[@viewer6808]

16:57 guys don't let Pariah know that you can spam chaos spear and basically negate all the air drag, you can skip the castles in Kingdom Valley like 3 times doing that, it's fun because it has depth and requires a lot of skill to skip stuff correctly, but yeah it's a thing that let you skip huge chunks of the level design. Great review as always.

[@LateefA519]

yh the movement in this game genuinely rivals sa2 I think it feels so good to literal piece the air drag with chaos spear

[@technicallyinept2120]

Isn’t that just spamming a button to extend jumps?

[@viewer6808]

@@technicallyinept2120 In pratically yeah, but you also do with a boost without losing air drag; you can boost and spam, boost of a cliff and start spamming to mantain a jump and another boost, do it of a rail and such, not the highest mechnical stuff but if you combine with a good route it turns out in a fun speedrun game. Like in the speedrun discord Kingdom Valley went from 2'39 to 2'17 in a few hours, we can do a lot of stuff when using everything together

[@KingKlonoa]

As someone who has been actively time attacking for once in a very long while, it's interesting to hear your thoughts on Chaos Control and Doom Wings, because those have been the two elements that have made time attacking SO addicting in this game, more than most others that I've played. I think it's THEORETICALLY possible that Chaos Control stopping the timer could have lead to degenerate strats where you play worse and kill a bunch of enemies, but in PRACTICE, I have not really encountered anything like that. I have sometimes changed my route to incorporate one or two more enemies to fill the gauge, but that has been fulfilling rather than feeling like I have to come to a stop to and walk around to kill enemies. Even though it stops the timer, you obviously still need to be going as fast as humanly possible no matter what you're doing to get the best time. That element of it hasn't changed, and even if you get the benefits of more Chaos Control for killing enemies, it is not always the best idea to wait around to kill more just to stop time. Since you can also chain them together, and get them WHILE time is stopped, it leads to so many interesting decisions, breaking these levels wide open and flipping them on their head. It's a really DOPE way to give Shadow his own mechanical identity, and by far the best way to utilize his unique powers that I have yet seen. I feel a similar way about Chaos Spear, though it's a little underutilized. Doom Wings, also, has some interesting applications with Chaos Control that completely changes how I approach some of these levels. Because it is tied to your boost, and rings are the only things which replenish it unless you touch the ground for a sufficient amount of time, levels like Kingdom Valley Act 1 are really interesting to route. When I discovered that Chaos Control can re-fill your boost meter, that meant an entire boost meter's worth of flying I could do to cheese through levels like Kingdom Valley or Rail Canyon, and conserving resources like that made it feel less like I was cheesing it, and more like I was chaining Chaos Controls together to strategically get where I needed to go. Routing these levels, with Doom Wings or without, has been a dream. It's by far my favorite implementation of a super form in terms of its raw mechanical depth, and it means that every level has two different ways to time attack. Still, this is not meant as a takedown of your stance. I respect that it isn't exactly what you're looking for in Sonic time attacking. I simply felt it was an interesting distinction between the two of us. Glad to hear your thoughts on the game, as always!

[@Pariah6950]

I think I'm not as impressed by the resource management game here because I think Colors has a better one with similar elements. Boost management is super critical there, enemies that give you meter get routed in, plus going out of your way to acquire wisps, and using them at the right times to either go faster or conserve meter for later, testing how one path impacts your resource options later on to see what is the fastest overall way to go, etc. So that also felt like a lesser versions of something I've gotten before in these games. And I just can't get behind the idea of spending real time to get a better in game time. Makes me feel like I'm speedrunning the clock, not the level. Glad to see you're digging the game, btw. I'll keep an eye out for ya on the leaderboards.

[@KrissyBlues]

I've actually never liked the boost formula and had been waiting for a refresh of the control style for over a decade at this point but I really can't disagree more that Shadow Gens is shallow or lacking in comparison to Generations. The decrease of speed and increase of control actually makes the game feel much closer to the pre-boost titles in a happy medium that I think elevated the formula enough for me to not mind it this go around, and all the little improvements you can do throughout the level felt like when I was a speedrunner on Riders. The levels are definitely more full in Sonic Gens but going back to it just reminded me how much I dislike how Sonic feels and controls in that game, it feels dated in that sense and made me glad Shadow Gens feels the way it does. Chaos Control stopping the timer forcing you in a more score attack approach is also a change I like, it reminds me of how the games SHOULD be ranked (doing the most in the level instead of exclusively getting the fastest route), and while it's still not quite the same as SA2's score system, I feel like it really works. The fastest routes still tend to be the shortcuts anyway, you just have to be actually mindful of enemies instead of them largely being disposable for once, which has been something that's annoyed me for a while in boost games. Overall, this game feels like they took what they learned from Forces and Frontiers and kept refining it to near perfection, which is something Sonic Team hasn't done in a LONG time. I think it would be completely destructive to throw away this work and create an entirely new gameplay style again, even as someone who until now wanted that. Then we're back to square one of SEGA having to find their footing with something that probably won't be well executed for years, instead of actually taking lessons and learning from them. It's more than fair to say Boost just isn't doing it for you but to call its design philosophies outright poor design choices feels disingenuous, and I feel like you wrote off the complexities of this game a bit too much

[@dudalina9223]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Except on the point about chaos control pausing the timer, I do agree with him about it on the principle, but to see if actually going to the slower routes with more enemies grants you enough extra seconds in order to beat the fastest routes with less enemies is something I'm yet to test for myself

[@KrissyBlues]

@@dudalina9223 I've been labbing sunset heights and taking the lower route doesn't seem to save more than a second and more than likely if I knew what I was doing the higher path would still be better, likely the case for other stages

[@chaomasterzero4610]

I don’t really think the boost formula going for a more controlled SA1 feel is a very good idea. What you and lot of other people miss is that levels in generations are heavily designed with the very loose physics in mind. Sonic controls like a car because the stages are built similarly to race tracks. Without the car like physics and U-turns in the stages the game starts to feel more like a watered down adventure game

[@dudalina9223]

@KrissyBlues That's good then, I guess, but I still think it would be ideal if there was a more significant time loss from going down the lower less optimal routes

[@SlickEvan]

In one word, agreed.

[@ScradeCottontail]

If they removed the frozen timer, then some challenges would literally be impossible to S-rank since they're based around freezing the timer.

[@Fairy-Uvinq]

@@ScradeCottontail just don't freeze it for time atk really

[@PDS350]

Have it like Doom Wing where rankings are separate

[@Nedow40]

About the speed between HE1 and HE2, they are actually very close, but the camera's FOV is way lower on the HE2 games than on HE1 games. This is why we feel like it is slower. There is a tweet that explains this better but I could not find it =(

[@legoboy7107]

Isn't Forces actually faster than Unleashed and Generations in the 3D sections? But it just doesn't feel like it or doesn't feel as natural like you're actually running really fast because the visual tricks and effects conveying the sense of speed just suck in Forces and they never improved them. Except for 2D, I'm nearly positive 2D is actually slower in the HE2 Boost games (more accurately the modified Lost World framework boost games), the speed cap seems clearly harsher and slower there than in Unleashed and Gens (idk about Colors, which is definitely the slowest Boost game in 3D sections, except maaaaybe Frontiers Cyperspace before you hit any dash panels and don't spindash, idk).

[@RameNoodls]

Aren’t the hedgehog engines just lighting engines

[@Banana807]

​@@RameNoodlsyeah

[@Hyp3rSonic]

​​​@@legoboy7107you are actually correct about Forces being faster than Colors and Gens (in the 3D sections) I forgot about Unleashed. Lmfao. Yes, its also faster then Unleashed

[@legoboy7107]

@@Hyp3rSonic It just doesn't feel that way, or at least doesn't feel remotely as satisfying and cinematic and lacks all the thrill of speed that Unleashed and Gens have.

[@purge2202]

why is being derivative in itself a criticism? they are using ideas that worked in new combinations in new contexts, the ideas are good and they ways they are putting them together are good as well. All things are derivative, that is the nature of art itself, why is the line drawn there?

[@rynobehnke8289]

Yes I don't get it ether. I guess he thinks no platformer is allowed to have scrolling screens other than Mario. But honestly my only real guess is that he has some ridicules expectation as Sonic's curved levels and momentum Physics were something all new and original when they were first created and he as such expects every new Sonic game to do something all new and never seen before.

[@LeafRazorStorm]

I guess the difference is when you’re looking for the cynical, corporate side of these decisions. “Hey, the kids seem to like this Splatoony game. It’s got kids that turn to squids? Sure, let’s make Shadow a squid too, for marketing. Will it make the game more fun? I dunno, let the overworked and underpaid devs figure that one out.”

[@rynobehnke8289]

@@LeafRazorStorm I mean going off historical precedent did Iizuka just play these games recently and was like "I need that in the next Sonic" that is how SA1 got RPG elements, Shadow got guns and its part of the reason why Team Sonic Racing is about team racing.

[@Exploding_Pencils14]

That's what I'm sayin

[@purge2202]

@@LeafRazorStorm Yeah but the problem with that is you are Literally Making Things Up. All we know is the squid is in the game, probably took inspiration from splatoon in some way, and works well in the context of the game. You can make things up to present it as bad but its fundamentally neutral as far as our perspectives go.

[@magicmoonmonke]

Using the doom wing to skip an eagle and fly through a water grate and skip like an entire portion of the level is amazing

[@kenrichgumanid9235]

Shadow Was Always Good.

[@koolooc726]

I gotta disagree big time with the rails, they were AWFUL in heroes, as much as I love that game, I dread the rails, falling from them is so easy to do, and in the recent modern games they're way easier to do and just look cool in general, they shouldn't be a challenge to get into

[@MarkerMurker]

Falling off the rails was only an issue because transferring was unreliable. It's not unreliable anymore. They can add some skill based mechanics to it instead of having it just be reaction based.

[@Nickika]

@@koolooc726 I would rather have a clunky but deepful mechanic than one that works to the cost of the depth of it.

[@shoebillstan8144]

The rail grinding in sa1-heroes is fine. You just need to use the joystick to balance on the rails

[@Etrodecim]

Agreed, my only major complaint about Shadow Generations is the lack of a single level from Shadow the Hedgehog. Not including a zone from his own game is actually insane and defies all logic. That said, Shadow Generations is my favorite boost-style Sonic game. Like Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic Heroes, I prefer when the games stick to one consistent gameplay style - no Werehog or Classic sections. In Shadow Generations, the 2D acts play exactly like the 3D ones but on a 2D plane. I can honestly say I enjoy the entirety of Shadow Generations to the fullest, but my favorite Sonic game remains Shadow the Hedgehog. While simple, the boss fights are very fun and, by Sonic standards, more challenging than those in previous games. Additionally, I feel that ending with Radical Highway wasn't fitting; it should have been Westopolis. Westopolis is a much more iconic level and is far more synonymous with Shadow, as the game's opening intro, first CGI, and in-game cutscenes take place there. It’s also the first level you have to play 10 times to beat the game. Lethal Highway is also located in Westopolis, and the entirety of The Last Way occurs there when the Black Comet is warped down to Earth in that location. I very much liked the Doom powers, it really sets Shadow apart from Sonic. I do think the boost formula as it is right now has overstayed its welcome now, not even the adventure formula stayed around half as long as the modern boost. Sega just seems to be very afraid to take another risk. I'll be playing Sonic Dream Team or the first time once Shadow releases and maybe I can get an idea what a hypothetical new innovative Sonic game could be like.

[@castform7]

I totally agree with this, especially with 2 of the levels having Black Doom distort the world into Radical Highway twice. Westopolis feels like a great way to end things. It's even the first place Shadow and Doom met (well, it was close to Westopolis but you get the point) of course that would be their climax. I know some people say that Space Colony is technically the Shadow level but as Pariah says, that takes from all over the ARK's appearances. Plus the comparison video on the Sonic the Hedgehog channel is Final Rush. It only seems fair to have a level fully come from the game that this game took its villain from.

[@willbrgamer5137]

Nah man, calling it "just more boost levels" is a heck of a fallacy, this game practically evolved the formula, I have never played more satisfying boost levels before, the doom powers feel great, and the game has some of the best boss fights in the franchise, easily surpassing the ones in og gens.

[@radudumitru3306]

i don't wanna be that guy but if you're gonna talk about fallacies then you also just did one. The "fallacy fallacy" if i call it correctly. but you're right in some aspects . like the boss fights are the best so far , (and at this point i think pariah wants just either something like the shadow fight in og gens but better or just straight up devil may cry or mgrr).

[@willbrgamer5137]

@@radudumitru3306 Where did I say a "fallacy fallacy"? I mean, the levels are perfected, full 3D levels, full 2D levels, both extremely good to play. Boost speed is fast enough to feel good, and slow enough to not get on the way of the level design and allow you to properly appreciate the visuals of the game. Even the double jump is far more useful in this game then in the previous. It's not just more boost levels, it's perfected boost levels, a formula that was thought for a long time as no longer being able to evolve, actually evolved.

[@studiogimli7645]

yeah its about as comparable as unleashed is to other boost games lol, i dont think sonic generations, which while good, basically steers you along a set path while boosting and has far less movement and momentum tricks is very similar to this game

[@radudumitru3306]

@@willbrgamer5137 i said you did the fallacy fallacy , where your argument is that the other person just did a fallacy ,therefor is invalid. And i didn't disagree with you (maybe exept for the speed of the character, but that's because i got used to unleashed and og gens since i have a collective 200 plus hours on them) . They did evolve the formula , the controls could have added more depth tho . like the chaos spears . they could have made so that you get punished for attacking an enemy that did not need to be speared ( they just had to say that they reflect it somehow) making it so that you have to think if you need or not to spear an enemy . the punishment could be just that you loose like 10 rings or something .

[@radudumitru3306]

@@willbrgamer5137 they could have also made the snap a hold option that teleports you to the enemy , but has less or no knokback, so if it's a big group or not obstructed enemy at all you just doo a normal homing attack. The blast could have had full 360 motion imo.

[@SnaksiXD]

18:23 Sorry, i'm confused. You just said that the Chaos Control can bring interesting player decisions, but then you start talking about aiming to defeat more enemies to build up for Chaos Control like it's a bad thing? Is deciding whether to go for enemies or the fastest path not a good thing? "Intentionally playing badly" it's not like people are beating these levels in record times by jumping into spikes or bottomless pits on purpose.

[@wishywoshua]

he just wants to hold boost and go fast without thinking but if the game is that then he complains about it trying nothing new. somehow he managed to do both at the same time in this one video. yeah, it doesn't make sense.

[@igirjei3717]

I think what he's saying is that the fastest path *IS* whichever path has the most enemies on it, and many of the shortcuts that are reserved for skilled players (well timed jumps and platforming, smart use of chaos powers, special awareness, things like that) end up being slower because you don't get to kill as many enemies when you take those paths/shortcuts. Does that make sense?

[@igirjei3717]

@@wishywoshuaI'm pretty sure he just criticized the level design for being antithetical towards itself, not that he wants to "hold boost and go fast", which is made pretty clear by his comparisons and reviews of other games

[@LeafRazorStorm]

He’s bitter because trying to “score attack” other Sonic games was a grinding exercise in tedium, and he’s worried that Shadow Gens seems to encourage that play style. “Finish one route, then immediately turn around and combo the enemies in every other route. Min-max the game at the cost of everything that made it fun.”

[@wolef3344]

I think the issue is that getting a good time in game and getting a good time in real life are so different. To get the best time in a level you have to go out of your way to spend *significantly more* time in the level, which is just bizarre. Not... necessarily a bad thing in all contexts, but to this extent it makes sense that he hates it.

[@Solebinku]

The actual finale of Pariah’s Sonic era again this time fully meant to be the end. We’ll miss the debates in the chat but are happy for a new era

[@themissingbits6375]

We still ain’t done yet! There’s a few other videos left like The Sonic X video or his own Sonic Riders story. Not to mention The “Let’s talk about Shadow.” Then He Can kill The Hedgehog in front of The public until it comes back as a ghost to Force him to do a video on a recent Hedgehog thing.

[@casaleiasallet1176]

wait what do you mean?

[@legoboy7107]

@@themissingbits6375 There's also the Eggman video that Pariah definitely promised he was going to make and definitely hasn't been explicitly stating he has no plans of ever making or anything...when's the Eggman video coming out, Pariah?!

[@themissingbits6375]

@@legoboy7107 Oh, you’re right! But I don’t know What The Eggman video is gonna be about? I know it’s about Eggman, But that’s it. Most of The stuff He has to say about Eggman has been Said in all his other Sonic videos.

[@chaomasterzero4610]

He never said he’d stop making videos

[@havokdoesthingshere1213]

7:07 Shadow Gens spoiler, there is a hard mode after you beat the game to where that there's actual things you need to look out for, I just want to clarify this because I keep on seeing people saying stuff like this and don't know that there is a hard mode for Shadow Generation's boss fights 😭

[@best_mate456]

OMG metal overlord hard mode is really dam good But personally I love the final boss more despite not having hard mode I’m still good with it. It be nice but not like fucking hell it should have got it

[@mau2172]

"being made by an ai" really is the best way to describe the open zone design of sonic frontiers. just a bunch of incoherent, basic shit strung together

[@heroicgangster9981]

Tbh if Sonic Frontiers leaned into the cyber aspects more, it’d be like canon worldbuilding XD

[@mau2172]

@@heroicgangster9981 i think they did kind of justify it with bs like that it was so funny

[@thequestbro]

That is literally what happened, though. The Island is a cyber construct by the Ancient Aliens. It's constructed from Sonic's memories.

[@deanmoriarty6015]

@@thequestbro”it was bad on purpose bro”

[@ravensflockmate]

​@@deanmoriarty6015ot wasn't bad

[@sauce987654321]

If this is the quality we’re going to get from now on with boost games then I’d rather stick with boost. There’s no guarantee they’ll be as good, nor will another game of another style, of course. When I want something else that isn’t boost I just play another game. I never understood this mentality of “killing off” game styles like 2D, boost, classic etc. when literally millions of games exist and people can just play something else. Never made sense to me and it probably never will.

[@Hyp3rSonic]

Based

[@LeafRazorStorm]

Sega tried to kill off the boost immediately after Generations, and that’s how we got Lost World. For all our sakes, let’s hope Sega doesn’t make the same mistake twice.

[@legoboy7107]

I can't believe our SWAG is over, we've got no more SWAG left. This is so sad, without our swag we're just basic and boring.

[@themissingbits6375]

😭

[@PikachuGamerSMT]

@andersonsansonowski5644 ……Sonic Was Always Good….

[@polybent9748]

We got SWOG now

[@andersonsansonowski5644]

@@PikachuGamerSMT thanks...

[@andersonsansonowski5644]

@@polybent9748 What is SWOG

[@TehJellyLord]

Yeah my one big criticism of this game, other than the fact that it’s yet another nostalgic throwback, is the fact that they chose Chaos Island and two SA2 stages over giving us at least one Shadow the Hedgehog stage. Like I really enjoyed Chaos Island and all, but that has absolutely no relation to Shadow in any way, and we didn’t even get Ian Flynn attempting to justify Chaos Island’s appearance in the game, it’s just there lol. Other than that, yeah for me this may be my favorite 3D Sonic game, at least pretty close to Generations. To me, this is like unquestionably better than stuff like Frontiers, the Adventure era Sonic games, and even Colors for me. And I’d even prefer playing through this game over something like Unleashed because there is nothing like the Werehog in this game, it’s just all fun all the time, and the only other “3D Sonic games” that is just all fun all the time are Colors and Gens. Sonic Generations is still probably a lot better, and I’m just falling for the new game hype this time around so I’ll wait to cool off a bit before making the final call on that. And I personally do not mind the issues you brought up with Chaos Control for time attacking. I do think it is a problem, but when I’m doing time attack I’m doing it for my own enjoyment more than anything, so seeing my time go down from better and better play is my only priority. But I completely understand your qualms with it. And on the issues with soft-QTE Sonic game design, I personally don’t mind it at all. This is kinda what 3D Sonic just is at this point, and yeah I can imagine a world where 3D Sonic is more than that and is more of an evolution of Classic Sonic into the 3D space. But I have never had an issue with the soft-QTE design as that’s pretty much what 3D Sonic has always been and I’ve come to enjoy that version of Sonic quite a lot. I think my real issue is that they haven’t done anything really significantly new with that soft-QTE styled Sonic gameplay like at all, barring the open zones in this and Frontiers. They just seem to keep the base QTE stuff the exact same and just add a new mechanic on top of it, rather than changing up the QTE design at a base level. Like I said, I can definitely imagine what Sonic could be if they really just sat down and completely rethought about how they’ve been doing everything from scratch and I’d love to see that someday. I’m just sayin I enjoy this kind of Sonic game too is all, even if it’s fundamentally more basic.

[@user-mz9xo3hx1h]

The entire game is means to be a nostalgic throwback I don't see why that's a problem

[@willbrgamer5137]

​@@user-mz9xo3hx1h How is a level from the most recent game a "nostalgic throwback"?

[@user-mz9xo3hx1h]

@willbrgamer5137 you got me there but for everything else it perfectly fits with the theme of generations

[@TehJellyLord]

@@user-mz9xo3hx1h yeah I know it works for the Generations theme, but I am just saying I would have rather had a game of this level of quality with all new environments and ideas over another Generations if that makes sense.

[@radudumitru3306]

@@user-mz9xo3hx1h reminder that when sonic gens launched colours was only one year old . Frontiers was 2 when this game released

[@radudumitru3306]

i think that the reason that they made the recent games slower is not only to make the general audience not fell motion sick from watching a blue hedgehog at mach 3 (or black in this case) but also so that they have less tings to work on. you see the hedgehogs......... they are fast, so the levels need to be big so that they are remotely close to the lenght of other game's levels. sonic is inherently harder to develop , so they made it easier by making the character slower.

[@bandicootsauce4569]

The way the Sonic series has never thrown in the towel despite how gaming journalism and the social media hive mind have actively discouraged it from even trying makes it feel like the franchise has embodied that one line of Shadow's from '06: "If the world chooses to become my enemy, I will fight like I always have."

[@ryukoprop]

The skips you can do by using the chaos spear after boosts or jumps to maintain momentum are crazy. This is a pretty short game but I have to imagine your opinion of it and many others will actually grow warmer overtime because of the potential for speedrunning. I think the levels are designed well enough and gameplay is definitely smooth enough for me to wanna try crazy skips and lowering times.

[@LateefA519]

Yh I think pariah wrote off the time attack to soon because of the chaos meter and his overall boost fatigue. The best runs are still taking the most skilled routes whilst just killing enemies along the way. I completely agree that boost in shadow gens is just way too slow. He also didn't experiment with the movement like you said. The chaos spear made for some pretty cool skips and he never even experimented with the quickstep slide to improve his movement speed.

[@ryukoprop]

@@LateefA519 He will experiment, I don’t doubt it. I disagree with him on some things but he’s always sunk his teeth into these games. No doubt he’ll figure it out

[@LateefA519]

@@ryukoprop Hopefully but I think he might wanna be done with sonic like he said amazing games like spark and freedom planet are clearing sonic right now.

[@leonardochaves1378]

this is an incredibly fallacious review. I usually do not agree with your videos, but I appreciate how you are able to back up your points and make a compelling argument. this is not one of those. you really should have waited at least a little to drop this one because a lot of the arguments here are very surface level. the doom wings can be used to make you fly through the level, yes, but the game separates your times with and without the doom wings in both the level select and leaderboards. it is by all intents and purposes an extra. I understand thinking they are uninteresting but the game itself splits them into 2 modes essentially. saying the levels have less alternate routes than Sonic Generations is straight up wrong. sure, they do not take you to different places in the level like the bridge in Green Hill Act 2 or the car in Seaside Hill Act 2, but the way Shadow Generations does it is it gives you multiple different ways to get to the next "section" of the level, all differing in how fast you can get there (see Rail Canyon Act 1, Kingdom Valley Act 1 and Radical Highway Act 1). I agree with your points against Chaos Control in parts, like making the timer unreliable and having to resort to outside tools to gauge how you actually did in the level. however, it adds more depth to how you traverse the levels beyond just reaching the goal. for example, do you take the top path that gets you to the next section faster, or do you take the bottom path that, while slower, has a lot more enemies that can grant you 2 Chaos Control charges so you can cut your time by 10 seconds? you complain in the video that the boost games are glorified QTEs, so when they give you something that requires more thought and not just "pressing the same buttons in order", you try to write it off? it feels like a contradiction. and the way you feel the need to compare this to Bowser's Fury (makes sense) and Splatoon (???) feels in very bad faith. is taking inspiration from some of the best in the industry a bad thing now? if it were, half the games that are considered some of the best of all time would not exist. hell, everyone knows Sonic exists because Yuji Naka liked to speedrun Mario. it felt like you were about to say "Sonic needs to stop jumping, that's clearly copying Mario and we need new ideas.". like I said, I usually disagree with you but like how you are able to develop your arguments. that is absent here. just a bit of constructive criticism. I hope you are able to view it more fairly next time.

[@milkman3214]

I agree with most of what you said except for the inspiration part. Here’s a list of sonic games from the past decade that took heavy inspiration from Nintendo. Lost world - galaxy. Frontiers - BOTW. Sonic superstars - new super mario bros. Shadow gens - bowsers fury. The only one that didn’t was sonic forces and sonic mania and those games just took “inspiration” from past sonic games. I think it’s a fair criticism honestly. When are we going to go back to the days when sonic team was endlessly creative, sometimes to a fault. Sonic unleashed was so sick that even Mario had to copy it with odyssey (that was a joke)

[@SutoEyon]

​@@milkman3214 I am not really familiar with mario games. What does sonic superstars have in common with new super mario bros (apart from being a 2d platformer)? Also, is having an open explorable hub zone where the bad guy is always watching enough to say they are copying from bowser's fury? I feel like other games may have done that already.

[@Darkghostwind]

@@milkman3214 Even Unleashed was ripping off beat em ups with the Werehog. I think the problem with Sonic team taking "inspiration" from all of these other games is that you are left with a series that is just barren and void of any identity.

[@casaleiasallet1176]

@@milkman3214 "Sonic superstars - new super mario bros." This one specifically isn't true, it's unfair to argue superstars is a rip off because it's built around a multiplayer 2d experience.

[@kilometersperminute4113]

@@SutoEyon Sonic Superstars tries to be NSMB as in a revival of classic 2D gameplay in 3D with little innovation (technically sonic 4 started it first, but yk). The multiplayer is just the cherry on top.

[@Amgitstigma]

imagining the nuclear fallout if you had made the patreon title the actual video title

[@Kiezly]

For those not on Patreon it’s called: “Sonic Forces 2 Dropped”

[@heroicgangster9981]

as a fallout and sonic fan, there should be a crossover

[@perguto]

The patreon titles are only for the enlightened ones 😎 The Freedom Planet title would cause even more wailing and gnashing of teeth

[@SBBDARKRACER]

@@Kiezly, LOL.

[@willbrgamer5137]

​@@Kiezly Yep, there definely would be war

[@tippedjoshua6802]

For me, this is the best sonic experience I’ve had. Sonic Generations was good, but the story for me dragged it down. I guess I am not a speed runner, which might change become of this game, but I loved how Shadow felt to control in this game. Also I don’t know if this is a hot take, but I thought Sonic Colors was boring, like maybe if I played the original I would have a better opinion of it, but I’ve tried to get through that game, but it was not fun.

[@EmSee1223]

21:33 A little error here - Hedgehog Engine and Hedgehog Engine 2 are graphical engines that have no bearing on the physics engine of these games whatsoever. All the games since '06 (at least as far as I know) use renditions of Havoc engine. Ever since Lost World's port in 2015, Sonic Team's been using this particular rendition of the engine for Forces, Frontiers and now Shadow Gens instead of the framework from Unleashed, Colours and Generations. Probably for convenience sake, since the newer framework is much better optimised but the quality and variety of gameplay suffers from it.

[@kayfeekyne5303]

Saying Radical Highway was in the 3ds is disingenuous as not only was that game not NEARLY as good as many other handheld titles, but far fewer people played it. It would have been an objectively bad decision to not include it this game. As far as the Chaos Island stuff, yeah I wish we got a SHtH level like Egg Carnival or Sky Ruins.

[@wishywoshua]

half the things pariah says are disingenuous and logical fallacies. the other half are just his reasonable opinions. if you criticize the disingenuous parts then he acts like you're attacking him for having an opinion. this is the same guy that said Mario 3D World isn't a creative game and is exactly the same as the New Super Mario Bros. games.

[@ansemthetrueseekerofdarkne2730]

Yeah, this video definitely fell right off a cliff near the end with all of the nitpicking.

[@magicmoonmonke]

Yeah, but as the final level? Idk it left a bad taste even though the design is still good. Was hoping for final haunt

[@RobBlu-d6u]

The 3DS point was a bad argument, but I feel like everyone is forgetting that Doom interrupts half of the levels to take you to Radical Highway. I love the actual level itself, but it feels unneeded as a standalone level with how much it forces itself into the other levels. Like there was no reason for it to show up in The Ark, Sunset Heights and Rail Canyon, and then get two fully 3D acts over the Black Comet. Why would Black Doom choose Radical Highway over his own Comet? It just feels like a constant reuse of assets. It's essentially the city cyberspace levels with some visual elements of Radical Highway thrown in. It feels lazy even if the level design itself is good. Now the game is always going to feel weird because they went with two SA2 levels and completely neglected the game that is literally named after the protagonist and is the origin of this games antagonist.

[@kayfeekyne5303]

So Ark has appeared in multiple games. Highway hasn’t. So given the rule of one stage per game, we can assume that the Ark is the ShTH level. Also the level is more similar to ShTH Ark than Final Rush or Chase. So no, there aren’t 2 sa2 stages.

[@pipboysandlightsabers5478]

The White Zone is probably preliminary work for getting Shadow working in a open zone for “Frontiers 2” like how the Frontiers dlc was for Knuckles, Amy, and Tails.

[@chaomasterzero4610]

Maybe that’s not a good sign considering it’s still very automated

[@justice8718]

@@chaomasterzero4610 I dare you to take the speed challenges and tell me you don’t get a heart attack from them.

[@RobBlu-d6u]

@@chaomasterzero4610 Sometimes I think you guys are expecting to have to mash 5000 buttons per second for these sections for some reason.

[@Santanazation]

@@justice8718 I had to retry a bunch of times from those hard ones especially the bosses

[@chaomasterzero4610]

@@RobBlu-d6u nah I just want to more in control of my character like in the classic games

[@S.omeone618]

27:58 Pariah695 was always good

[@braven_iss]

Just to clarify. The ARK is actually the Shadow '05 level of the game with Radical Highway being the SA2 level. Shadow wasn't really in a lot of games in any meaningful capacity hence why Sunset Heights and Chaos Island are here.

[@milkman3214]

I would’ve taken a sonic rivals level over chaos island but they wanted to re use assets

[@legoboy7107]

But it takes nearly all its cues from SA2 instead of Shadow '05, including the music literally just being Final Rush. If it's supposed to be THE Shadow '05 level and not an SA2 level, it certainly doesn't feel much like it.

[@KC.086]

that's not true, all the levels are in chronological order starting from SA2 and ending on Frontiers

[@RameNoodls]

@@KC.086radical highway: Sunset heights:

[@braven_iss]

@@KC.086 did you forget that radical highway is the final zone or

[@raptortown]

This was fast. Was expecting to wait like a month or 2 Now, I'm just waiting for the Sonic X video.....

[@existential_narwal9257]

Dont forget the Story of shadow x sonic generations too!

[@Bestmotion2389]

​​@@existential_narwal9257I don't want to brag, but If you watch his stream of this game and get to the credits, yeeeaaahhh, that ain't happening

[@galten7361]

@@Bestmotion2389 He said he might do a video talking about Shadow overall.

[@junkyardcrow1748]

*black and white "That's NO good" frame thumbnail* Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog - Sonic Was Always Good

[@blueblitz283]

If you or a loved one had been afflicted by Boost Formula Fatigue, you may be entitled to compensation

[@Darkghostwind]

It's ironic that in a series (especially this game) that's all about moving forward, the fans and by extension the developers are so obsessed with clinging to the past recycling the same tired old gameplay and levels over and over again. It's even worse that the only other people who want the series to change also just want it to change so it's just like "the past". I feel like no matter what, the only way for this series to truly progress would be to create something that's actually new and creative but you don't get that with people like Sonic Team who's best game is an mmo from 2000.

[@joaquindiaz3621]

... That's a little harsh and stupid to say when they do want to move on but this was more for the sake of reintroducing shadow because of the third movie

[@Darkghostwind]

@@joaquindiaz3621 We'll have to see when the next game comes out but if things have been this way for half of the series' existence, it's not unreasonable to doubt that they will ever change.

[@lamontthompson3253]

@@Darkghostwind nonetheless, though the shadow campaign, innovates the boost formula with the abilities the doom powers bring. sonic team is capable of producing new content frontiers proved that but because this game was a expansion to sonic generations obviously there gonna bring back the boost formula to coincide with sonic gens

[@lamontthompson3253]

and the reason why it doesn’t feel stale was because of the new innovated content they added with it like there’s a reason why it’s positively received by fans.

[@Darkghostwind]

@@lamontthompson3253 Half yes, Half no. While I think the Doom morph is pretty good, others are kind of just placeholders for abilities that already existed such as Doom Surf which is just the "boosting on water" but with less difficulty. I think they do want to move away from the boost as well because you can see how disconnected it feels from the rest of the games mechanics, you have these new mechanics that have a degree of depth to them and then the boost which puts you in the same QTE segments and what not. I feel like you could easily design a game like this with those same powers and have it not be a boost game and it would be much better

[@Kiezly]

Yeah I agree with you there I wish all the radical highway sections and the stage were swapped out with black comet inspired locations like final haunt or the last way. And it would be more badass to see black arms organic mutated versions of previous levels like a Radical Highway bridge but made out of black arms flesh! Or in sunset heights have black arms flesh covering all the buildings and enemies like it’s a virus taking over. Technically the space colony ark is a shadow 05 level but we all know we would’ve much preferred digital circuit or cryptic castle or something more visually iconic of specifically shadow 05. But what we got with the game is already the best ever since 2011. So we can take this game overall as a win and not cope/complain about it like all the bad games.

[@regissofi7138]

If they wanted a final city level they could've just picked Westopolis, it's iconic cause we "have" to play it like 10x, and we have more "stages" to integrate: Westopolis > Lethal Highway > Central City But I'm gonna stop complaining until dlc drops cause... yknow, just like Mania and Frontiers, if it did good it'll have dlc xD

[@Etrodecim]

@@regissofi7138 Shadow 05 should be a DLC expansion back all on its own. Not having Westopolis included in Shadow Generations is actually a massive crime tbh. Lethal Highway isn't even significant to Shadow, it was literally just a one off level and this game is the first time he revisted it in over 23 years. While Westopolis for Shadow has been far more synonymous with Shadow, as the game's opening intro, first CGI, and in-game cutscenes take place there. It’s also the first level you have to play 10 times to beat the game. Lethal Highway is also located in Westopolis, and the entirety of The Last Way occurs there when the Black Comet is warped down to Earth in that location. I remember Jun playing a Remix version of Westopolis when promoting Shadow Generations at TGS last month and yet I have yet to see the remix in the game. God help me it better be a tease for a Westopolis DLC in the future and not for the Tokyo movie level cause it wouldn't make sense to have Westopolis's music for that level... It's literally not Westopolis, we need the actual westopolis level.

[@regissofi7138]

@@Etrodecim I still have my fingers crossed for some 05 dlc levels, if not for Westopolis then at least Digital Circuit and Black Comet, the game is awesome as it is but level choice is lacking a bit, let's wait until june and see xD

[@Kelps.mp4]

The non-Sonic Pariah era has started (there will be 6 more Sonic videos but you get what I mean)

[@justice8718]

But Shadow Generations has DLC and there’s going to be a third movie, Fang Superstars DLC, and Sonic fall guys, and a Sonic heroes remake.

[@untapped8776]

Not that it's a proper excuse, but I speculate that the reason there aren't any levels from Shadow 05 is because Sonic Team didn't want to "canonize" any one particular level or route from that game. That being said, they definitely could have done Westopolis or something on the Black Comet since those two locations happen regardless of route.

[@wishywoshua]

The ARK is from Shadow 05.

[@kilometersperminute4113]

@@wishywoshua it's from SA2. Gerald and Maria are also pulled from the SA2 canon, and it's the first level of the game placed before bullet station from sonic heroes in chronological order.

[@BladRavenYey]

i actually think the ark is the only one thats present day because of the animation prologue they released prior to the release of the game, after that stage ends is when shit gets timey wimey

[@sonic5993]

This is the fastest you put out a review after playing it, jfc.

[@RobBlu-d6u]

Mans got to pay bills

[@S-RM11]

love how the ending works as a transition to move away from the sonic series and start branching out to other cool games. the hierarchy of power in the Pariah695 youtube channel is about to change

[@shrobbyy]

I think it made sense in Frontiers to not being able to boost into enemies in the open zone, but it was bad in cyberspace

[@adina-the-nerd]

I think Chaos Island confirms that Shadow is going to go to Chaos Island. Shadow does point out that he doesn't recognize it and Gerald comments that it might be from his future.

[@lasercraft32]

Maybe Shadow will appear in "Sonic Frontiers 2" or something. 🤔

[@justice8718]

I wonder if Infinite and the Phantom Ruby will drag him there, but only see Shadow as a side-dish to beating Sonic again.

[@JOJO-oj8gy]

22:09 They made the boost physics casual friendly There's people who think Shadow's gameplay more polished than sonic that they called Sonic's gameplay janky and outdated

[@RobBlu-d6u]

Personally, playing Shadow Gens just really reinforced how much I really didn't like the 2D sections in modern Sonic's levels. It really shows how blatantly unnecessary it is to mix the two, and it pretty much only exists in these games at all because it's the only feasible way to have enough content for a full game like this without it taking half a decade of development time and overinflating the budget.

[@hendester05]

Finally, a rereleased of a Sonic game that is actually good. THE PLANETS ALIGNED AGAIN FOR SONIC TEAM. Also, dropping this video first before the freedom planet video?

[@Nickika]

@@hendester05 is because freedom planet is not as relevant as shadow for most people, so it wouldn't do too well right now

[@bluecheckmiya]

I don’t see why Sonic establishing a couple of formulas to follow is bad… that’s literally been Mario for a decade. Especially when 2 decades ago we had Sonic experimenting and while I liked it, so many of the rest of you guys say most of those games were bad. And almost none of us liked this last decade of Sonic trying to go away from what worked. They need a stretch of time where they’re just like “ok let’s establish what we want Sonic to be for right now”

[@Kujaguy]

They were literally complaining about a lack of consistency for the past 5 years. I said it before, and I'll say it again; Sonic fans do not know what they want.

[@Izywik90]

Honestly this didn’t even have to be bundled with Gens and should’ve been its own game period

[@gokublack9724]

I honestly prefer it to gens, it's THAT good

[@Izywik90]

@@gokublack9724 Hard Disagree but that’s you man

[@Hyp3rSonic]

​@@Izywik90also agree with you About Sonic Generations being better than Shadow Generations (from what gameplay I had seen from Shadow Generations)

[@runningwithscissors8612]

That last section spoke to me. As someone who thinks Shadow Gens was awesome for what it is, I desperately want the boost formula gone for the next mainline game.

[@Nickika]

Or at least evolved in some way

[@justice8718]

You will surge.

[@theimpersonator7086]

Yeah, personally done with the mini QTE level design in Sonic games. If I go a whole life time without another homing attack chain I'll be happy lol

[@yrooxrksvi7142]

I couldn't care less for this nostalgia trash heap, no matter how many sappy mushy feelings cutscenes there are or old stages they rehash. I HATE the Boost, their idea of "better storytelling" is cheap emotional bait with no real plot, just references, they still fall back to 2D. And these Studiopolis actors are so miscast.

[@justice8718]

@@yrooxrksvi7142 The frontiers dlc island has no 2d sections.

[@Bestmotion2389]

Pariah doesn't have issues to talk about Sonic Team finally cooked

[@sonic5993]

Happened with the same game no less.

[@danielgrizzlus3950]

A better way to fix time attack is to track both times, one affected by chaos control, and one not. I personally think it's cool that you can optimise time by going through a lot of enemies, it feels fitting for Shadow as a character. If they were genius level designers they would have fixed this whole issue by putting more chaos control capsules in the harder to reach (but faster) routes, or put more enemies there.

[@telekinesticman]

The Stagnation of 3D Shadow

[@themissingbits6375]

Indeed. At least we have Penny’s Big Breakaway, Spark, Sonic Robo Blast 2, Freedom Planet, etc, thankfully. Sonic Fans do What Sonic Team-Don’t!

[@S.omeone618]

This is the Pariah police. you can't promote your channel here!

[@galacticspecter4364]

telekinesticman in his shadow 2005 defender arc

[@telekinesticman]

@@galacticspecter4364 I wouldn't go that far...

[@thej5448]

@@themissingbits6375 when someone says something in the most annoying way you have to disagree with them

[@rando29]

The fastest a SWAG has ever come out

[@KevzGotzIt]

22:56 I’m sorry but with all due respect I call bullshit on that because there have been times where I’ve replayed these levels and found completely different routes that I haven’t noticed my first few times playing like in the beginning of Radical Highway Act 1 for example. Also, this game and past boost games have had the same idea when it comes to level design where each path leads to the same location at the end of the day. If anything, I feel like this game improves a lot when it comes to level design. It feels like a good mix of Colors and Generations if you ask me.

[@Pariah6950]

There are some. But then look at Chaos Island 1. Pretty much no split paths in the whole level.

[@KevzGotzIt]

@@Pariah6950 Actually yeah. That’s a fair point honestly. My bad if I came off as heated or whatever. I still find it pretty fun regardless though. Still been trying to learn the stage to speedrun it

[@Pariah6950]

@@KevzGotzIt All good. I've been discovering more paths to and seeing that there's more than I initially thought. But it still ain't no Classic Sky Sanctuary in Gens, you know?

[@MarioPokemon123456]

@@Pariah6950 Honestly a shame, I feel like the more open ended Generations style levels would mesh really well with Shadow Gens controls which are better suited for platforming and tighter control

[@supersonicwarrior2614]

24:10 that's literally just every platformer game ever. Edit: Also, you have the option of turning off the button prompts in the options menu.

[@mania4270]

Nah this is clearly better than sonic generations. It took what frontiers did and improved upon it. For me, sonic is best when you let him have control and not just boost to win gameplay. Frontiers and shadow generations, more like this please

[@yrooxrksvi7142]

Being better than Generations is a low bar, considering how barebone of a game it is. And this isn't much better. And no, it HARDLY carries over anything from Frontiers, not that it was better either. NO MORE Boost trash, no more 2D filler trash, no more context-sensitive gimmicks like Wisps or Doom Powers.

[@mania4270]

@@yrooxrksvi7142 I'm not saying its the sequel to frontiers. I'm just saying that the open zone design, which was universally praised as the best part of frontiers, is brought back and hopefully they can improve on it

[@akiraita]

the lack of a level from shadow the hedgehog is so bewildering given that this game also contains a level shadow doesn't remember visiting, a level shadow only visits in his future, and a level he never visits at all. genuinely feels like this is a shadow game for exactly the type of person who didn't play shadow the hedgehog when it came out and called it stupid and bad and only started to turn around on it when public opinion began to shift

[@justice8718]

The first level of shadow the hedgehog takes place around the same area as radical hallway.

[@willbrgamer5137]

13:26 Sorry, but I will have to call it out, this is basically the same logic as saying every other platformer is a copy of mario because they use the jump mechanic.

[@bam_bino__]

yeah that was pedantic you can levy this argument towards anything.

[@igirjei3717]

I mean, I think there's more nuance to it than that. A platformer is naturally going to have jumping from platform to platform (and also, pac land was the original platformer, not Mario). How many other games can you think of in this day and age with mechanics that are *this* similar to splatoon's squid transformation?

[@igirjei3717]

@@willbrgamer5137 fair enough then. Maybe he thought sonic team were copying splatoon because he seems to really be convinced sonic team copies anything and everything from Nintendo (lost world = Mario galaxy, frontiers = BoTW, superstars = New Soup, Shadow Gens = Bowser's Fury). Not that I blame him, but I definitely think a few of those might not be the case

[@willbrgamer5137]

@@igirjei3717 There are some other games with similar mechanic, such as Meat Boy, though they are motly 2D. The point is, Splatoon is a third person shooter, Sonic is a platformer, there is a very big and fundamental difference in how the two games use the mechanic, so it's not a copy.

[@igirjei3717]

@@willbrgamer5137 I mean, can't the same mechanic have different uses in different contexts? Not to say that they're exactly the same, but even if they were, the fact that the genre and game design are different doesn't mean that it's not the same mechanic, methinks

[@themissingbits6375]

No Sonic X Shadow in Sonic X Shadow Generations?!?!?!?!?!? This game was a fuckin’ SCAM!!!

[@Legoluigi26]

I WANNA SEE MEN KISSING DARNIT!

[@TheJmack90]

Space Colony Ark IS the Shadow ‘05 level. I personally would’ve just picked 2 levels from each game and left Forces and Frontiers out. SA2: Radical Highway Rail Canyon Shadow the Hedgehog: Westopolis Space Colony Ark Heroes: Hang Castle Egg Fleet

[@ChronoNavigatorX]

During the pre-release, I kept seeing everyone calling this game an "evolution" of the boost formula, and I just wasn't seeing it, I've guessed that it'll be a pretty good game but nothing special, and I was right about that. More than anything, this isn't a Sonic exclusive issue but rather an internet-wide problem when it comes to entertainment media, but I fear that terms like "evolution, redefined, subversion" etc... have all just become meaningless buzzwords used to hype up whatever the next new release is. Here's the thing about all of this, "evolution" means the game needs to take the game design to the next level, like take the core gameplay framework and do so much more with it, and this game doesn't do that, it's just more of the same. And it's not like we have never seen any real evolution from this franchise before, the Advance games were an evolution of the Classic games, Advance 1 not so much but 2 took the idea of momentum based gameplay to the next level with the whole boost mode they made for it, and Advance 3 took that and pushed it even further while altering how Sonic level design is approached dramatically, all while having its own gimmick on top of all of that. Hell, hilariously enough Sonic Rush was a further evolution of that with its boost gameplay (although the Rush games are designed fundamentally differently than the 3D boost games). Shadow Generations doesn't do anything different compared to other boost titles at all, the only real tangible difference is that the level design is more free-form compared to the other games, but early 3D Sonic titles were also quite free-form so this doesn't really count, and because the Doom powers are context sensitive and you having to unlock them they end up being no different than the wisps. Sonic REALLY needs to take its design to the next level in the future because I'm so done with this super basic gameplay that they insist on, even some extremely low-profile indie devs are doing more with their games than this.

[@RKMCHere]

SEGA already tried that with Lost World and it didn't turn out well.

[@ChronoNavigatorX]

@@RKMCHere except that Lost World game design wise has absolutely nothing to do with Sonic, instead it's more like a generic Mario-wanna be clone.

[@joaquindiaz3621]

​@@ChronoNavigatorX because they wanted to go with the Mario crowd and Also because Sonic team can still do good games man, that doesn't mean they always want to be all Safe, like dream team showed they can have teams that know their stuff

[@justice8718]

@@joaquindiaz3621 But barely any of the Sonic stuff has ever been safe. Even Forces expanded its old locations far more boldly than Mario did. The only thing that came back was the Nega Wisp boss design, but only Lost World actually had it.

[@wolef3344]

I really didn't see it during pre-release either but after playing it was surprisingly different- at least at it's best it was. Mostly down to the controls, since it's much quicker to chain abilities together, and things like the air boost and double jump improve your mobility in a way that really changes how you approach level design. It's nothing Frontiers didn't do though, just more refined and contained- which is sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse- so idk if I'd call it an evolution

[@andersonsansonowski5644]

shadow gens is NOT slower than base gens, it feels slower yeah special effects matter

[@rynobehnke8289]

This really is a think that is often forgotten. Unleashed and Generations used special effects and Camera positions to look faster than they actually wear which often came at the expense of play-ability as it makes seeing ahead harder. Shadow Generations gives you more of a view on the stage making it far easier to see and react to obstacles.

[@shammoi]

​@@rynobehnke8289 Oh I see. That's what I really loved about unleashed was the sense of speed and the games after that felt "slow" to me

[@tsp184]

Idk for 3d, but 2d in shadow gens is definitely slower

[@JMACK19]

I dislike criticizing optional mechanics. As you mentioned, the Doom Wing is optional, but I see no reason to criticize it if it can be completely ignored. Same with chaos control for tine attack, but for a different reason. Every single time attack in the series has been hacked, so the best players will never be on top for more than a few weeks at best.

[@magicmoonmonke]

True, but Chaos Control is valid criticism because it fundamentally affects how T.A is played in a backwards fashion and unlike Doom Wing, there isnt a mode to turn it off

[@igirjei3717]

Think of it this way, if you encounter something that's bad but optional, the devs might not know how to make it better or even know that it's bad in the first place unless someone speaks up about it. Something optional (usually) isn't going to ruin a play experience, but I'd always prefer calling it out for improvement over just ignoring it. Good criticism is not a bad thing, hence why it's known as "*constructive* criticism"

[@Fairy-Uvinq]

@@igirjei3717 nah, if they made a seperare category they knew that the ability isn't fair otherwise. Its a for fun ability. Rather than blocking it all together from time atk, they just made a category just for it so people that wanted to use it, could

[@JMACK19]

@@magicmoonmonke That's fair

[@wolef3344]

Its not unfair to critique things for having problems, even if it is optional. The doom wings are busted; which doesn't detract from the rest of the game since they're optional- but the game would still be better if they weren't. It's fair to point out places where the game could be better, so long as you don't overblow how much of a problem it is, which I don't think he did.

[@taysmanproductions]

In my opinion 2D in Shadow Gens portions feels way better than in Sonic Gens, just can't go back to it the same way i did after playing Shadow, it just felt worse

[@PMZaphod]

I really don't like how you can see the ARK in it's entirety in the background of the first level. Like, the level is supposed to be part of the ARK, not just random structures floating in space separate from the ARK

[@Pariah6950]

I never picked up on that... That is weird.

[@PMZaphod]

@@Pariah6950 i mean, it's a cool visual and it's just 2 seconds at the start of the game, but it really doesn't make much sense

[@Bestmotion2389]

The ark sneezed it's own parts away after pissing on the moon That's the best explanation I can offer to you

[@CanaldoZenny]

According to the SA2's level select menu, those floating rails and platforms exist outside of the Ark, not inside.

[@PMZaphod]

@@CanaldoZenny well, yeah, you can fall into space if you fail a jump, that's obvious. What i'm saying is, they're supposed to be part of the ARK, not separate. In shadow gens, the ARK is floating all the way in the background

[@sugarsmile7852]

13:48 "studios should stop recycling the same tired old property,and make something original for once" Boom Amy

[@milesstorzillo7650]

I always use that quote to describe the Classic games.

[@Nickika]

I also don't like how the game is more cinematic. It stops you and shows you the cool thing... but I want to play the level, I don't care about the cool thing anymore. That is what happened when I was playing the 3D levels, I don't care about the cool thing anymore. Let me play the level now

[@Pariah6950]

Most of those are hidden loading screens.

[@Bestmotion2389]

So it's basically a movie where you press buttons Press button, boost, left, left, right, press another button, repeat But uuuuuuhhh sometimes you get a jump

[@frugaljoker8277]

@@Pariah6950 Makes perfect sense, you aren't getting seamless instant transitions between areas like R&C rift apart on switch.

[@Nickika]

​@@Pariah6950Wha- Wait, really? I thought it was something like "look at cool thing" Although it makes sense because Kingdom Valley doesn't have a doom section, so it doesn't have a lot of those moments.

[@best_mate456]

Luckily the QTE mashing only on ark act 1 The rest are cutscene that are very short like the volcano explode

[@MasterDisaster64]

It might not feel as fast as Sonic Gens, but I still prefer Shadow for how much better the control is. Also, I think like the new powers add enough interesting wrinkles, like how the enemies are the most aggressive they've been since 06, so you're encouraged to disable them with chaos control or spears. Though yes, I would prefer if we actually left soft-QTE design behind.

[@GHNeko]

One thing about the sensation of speed is that OG Gens had a FoV that induces a greater sensation of speed. In your own video you can see that you're closer to the ground and closer to Sonic's back which makes everything pass by you faster. By comparison, Sonic Colors and Shadow Gens pull the camera up and back which reduces the sensation of speed. Also they put in a lot more dynamic work with the camera in Shadow Gens but that also cames at the cost of the sensation of speed. Just my two cents :) I think the Chaos Control thing is a bit of an overworry though because I'm sure that in the end the fastest times will belong to the players who pick the best routes as intended, but also incorporate the most enemies. Every now and then there might be exceptions where the slower route will give the resources need for a technically lower time, but I think that they will not be the norm and will be scarce in general because considering they put more effort into time attack by deliberately separating DOOM WINGS; I think it might be a disservice to assume they didn't consider the impact of Chaos Control to speedrunning and the routes. EDIT: Finished the video. Yeah Boost gameplay gotta go. The execution of Shadow Gens is better than Frontiers, but conceptually I prefer Frontiers because its not boost. It's a different take and transformation of Modern Sonic gameplay. I tweeted that I think the best timeline will be Shadow maintaining Boost, Sonic maintaining Frontiers, and Classic maintaining 2D. But as you've said they're not really innovating outside of Frontiers and to a small degree superstars. I think if they experiment more with Frontiers and Superstars while achieving the level of polish and execution and level design of Shadow Gens; then you'll be much happier with the Sonic Franchise. And if not; hey there's always SRB2 :)

[@SuperStaticPro]

Goodbye Sonic was always good, forever..

[@MarkerMurker]

Well, until the next game at least

[@6DADADA]

16:40 The timing of going AGAINST the level design made me chuckle

[@Hyp3rSonic]

What happened?

[@SammySinner6]

I'll be honest, i feel like if the next classic game is gonna have new original gameplay alot of people would *HATE* it

[@castform7]

I don't know about that. I feel like the Classic games can deviate from what they've done before and still be well received as long as it's fun. I would hope another Classic game isn't just going to be "Sonic 3/Mania again with a small gimmick".

[@henriquezioto8760]

The reason there is no shadow 05 stage, but there is a forces and frontiers stage is probably cause they can reuse assets from the latter, but for 05 they would have to remake all of it. And since 05 isn't as important to fans as Adventure 2 and Heroes, it means it was the one that they could just axe from the game.

[@MauricePlayer]

The "soft QTE'S" isn't inherently Bad tho as long if it's well made

[@synysterdawn8913]

“Do we REALLY need to jump again as Mario in yet another game?” Like god damn, this guy wants Sonic Team to just reboot yet again and release another stinker.

[@keaton5101]

taking risks and doing something new is not the same as rebooting entirely. sonic fans are just scared of sega taking risks because they are awful at it

[@deanmoriarty6015]

my mind is blown at how that was your takeaway from his criticism on a game he otherwise said he did enjoy, lol

[@LeafRazorStorm]

Aw yeah, “Sonic Lost World 2,” here we come!

[@mr.unsmiley8656]

​@@LeafRazorStorm Unironically, I'd like that.

[@synysterdawn8913]

@@keaton5101Taking risks by adding a new spin on things or expanding on what already works is fine and dandy, not the same thing as just scrapping a working formula and starting from scratch. I make the Mario comparison because those games have pretty much controlled and felt the same forever, but they make small additions and focus on a new twist that keep things fresh without just nuking Mario’s core gameplay. They take risks without gambling everything.

[@PanicGun]

Never spent a lot of time being worried about chaos control and routing around it. Partially because there were also item boxes that gave you chaos control back as well edit: routing with where enemies are that is, and that the chaos boxes are place around the better route

[@Kujaguy]

@15:26 I have to point out to anyone listening that the Doom Wing, like Super Sonic, is a separately tracked speedrun category in time attack.

[@Karakiri69]

Ive never watched a review that said a game was good this many times and still felt like reviewer didn't really enjoy their time all that much with it. Idk, I must just be stupid.

[@Karakiri69]

Damn yeah, I can not agree with this video's tone at all Im sorry. I get where you're coming from, as best as one person can get another person's mindset, but I just feel like Shadow Generations being an evolution of what Frontiers did while mixing with the previous working formula is proof that, yeah, we actually have a clear path of improvement in front of us this time. I also am kind of thankful you didn't touch the story, since I can guess how you felt about it with how much you seem to hate Flynn as a writer. I've definitely gotten my fill of that on Twitter lmao. Apologies I'd I sound dickish, that's genuinely not my intention, there are just very few videos I feel a strong compulsion to actually leave a comment on.

[@TheUltimateMachineGod]

​​@@Karakiri69 The way I see it everything needs to be done in baby steps. Sega has too do a lot to get players back into sonic. They wowed us with Frontiers as a blue print. They impressed me with improvements made in Shadow generations. Now all they need to do is make a completely original game with original assets and then I will be happy. Cause then it would prove to me they have the balls to make a good fucking videogame.

[@astreakaito5625]

We're so back! Wait, Swag is done?? it's so over...

[@technicallyinept2120]

Holy shoot that was fast.

[@grimm-jimm5470]

Gotta say, that last bit of your closing remarks about your outlook on the future of Sonic's game design made it sound like you were breaking up with the franchise, and have been wooed by suitors like Freedom Planet and Spark the Electric Jester. Can't say I disagree, but it still kinda cracked me up a bit.

[@MarkerMurker]

Spark 3 is super dynamic though. It's weird, I bought Shadow Generations to see if it was good, while I buy each new Spark game because I KNOW it'll be something good.

[@milesstorzillo7650]

Quite ironic that you criticize the boost games for not innovating (which I would say otherwise to)... Yet you're a huge fan of, and even prefer, Classic Sonic.

[@sonicfan39]

have you seen his tierlist. He also hates the classic games for not innovating either did you finish the video

[@rynobehnke8289]

@@sonicfan39 I mean his dedicated Superstars video had him praise that game into the high heavens.

[@legoboy7107]

He prefers Classic Sonic gameplay but wants it to evolve too, he literally says that in this video. He's main criticism of Mania and Superstars (aside from the latter's boss fights) is that they're basically just Sonic 3&K...again, and don't evolve enough beyond that. That's part of why he likes the Advance games so much too, particularly Advance 3, because they DO evolve the classic style of gameplay, and he was disappointed that later Classic Sonic games like Mania and Superstars disregarded every evolution the Advance titles brought to the table and just regressed back to Sonic 3.

[@rainopaino]

He quite literally critiques Superstars for not evolving in the video you're commenting on

[@kenrichgumanid9235]

Sonic is lost in gameplay concept.

[@sugarsmile7852]

The reason behind why games like forces and frontiers having the boost so slow is because they want to avoid players having motion sickness Also no drift mechanic

[@maskofthedragon]

The Doom morph is such a blatant Splatoon reference, that it looks like it came from a mod

[@justice8718]

I think they thought about implicating it into a Sonic game simply because it would work very well for combat and unique traversal.

[@Legoluigi26]

As far as Chaos Island goes, I'd rather have a zone from Shadow the Hedgehog, but I see it like an echo fighter from Smash Bros. Sonic Team obviously reused models from Frontiers to make it so it took less time to make than the other zones. The design is still solid so I'll take it.

[@Isetaaa]

seeing your opinion from the stream and the first ten seconds of this video back and forth had a hilarious effect

[@Nickika]

Yeah, like in the stream he was like "its fine"

[@alexthebluehermit]

15:09 I absolutely love this ability and is a good portion of why I like the game I don't get why you dislike it, supersonic basically did the same thing It's except you didn't even have to move you just press boost I know it drained your rings but that doesn't matter

[@Supersonicgaming11]

Pariah the about the speed is actually a result of the camera, because its more pulled back it makes you look slower. Maybe you should take a break from the boost games cause youve probably had to play the shit out of them these past couple years. Have a nice day

[@nixx7912]

I think the best thing they could’ve done with the Black Comet aesthetic is that when Doom changes reality he could’ve changed it to the Comet as opposed to Radical Highway minis. Especially because there’s no level with an Alien Aesthetic, so having it like… infecting the time space would’ve been a cool way to utilize it.

[@joeker5208]

You just know Sonic Team took note of Spider-Man 2, because the design of some of these doom powers (especially the wings) look a lot like Venom’s wings. Heck, there’s even Web-Swinging

[@theking8347]

*STORY SPOILERS* I like how Gerald is like "No Shadow, you can't tell us about anything that happens in the future" From a writing perspective, it makes sense so Shadow doesn't alter history, but from a character perspective, it feels like Gerald and Maria already know that bad things will happen to them

[@CanaldoZenny]

This is it guys, the last episode of the Sonic Was Always Good series.

[@blood-reaper]

Sonic dream team

[@existential_narwal9257]

The last episode for now...

[@ansemthetrueseekerofdarkne2730]

Of all things, its the fucking TIME ATTACK that you choose to autistically obsess over, this game is by and far better than Colours.

[@igirjei3717]

I mean, it's a sonic game about going fast, why wouldn't he put focus on that?

[@Hyp3rSonic]

​@@igirjei3717BASED

[@igirjei3717]

@@Hyp3rSonic one-piece-handshake-gif

[@Hyp3rSonic]

​@@igirjei3717I can't see the gif. 😅

[@igirjei3717]

@@Hyp3rSonic right, but can you imagine it? Lmao

[@sonicblurry]

I’m just waiting for mods where we get character skins and new levels based on this gameplay. If we take what worked in Shadow Generations I actually feel like the next mainline Sonic game will have a good starting point.

[@yrooxrksvi7142]

LMFAO Keep dreaming, watch them pool another Lost World move and screw any good momentum they built off the movies.

[@gottendesert069]

ive personally been having more fun with Shadow Generations than Sonic, but that's probably because Shadow is very recent while I've owned Sonic Generations for like 10 years now

[@PaulFellourisStrongman]

They should really update the game to have a time attack where chaos control is completely disabled. I think it’s why Radical Highway act 1 & 2 are the most speedrun active levels. That being said I do think Chaos Control being used is a fun way to time attack. But there are a lot of skilled players who know who to kill enemies along the way without killing momentum.

[@klaus.sfc01official30]

I agree with the time attack thing. There should be a time attack option where chaos control gets dissabled with it's own leaderboard.

[@ultimateshadeofwar]

You see the problem is Pariah, this the problem i saw the moment forces when back to the boost formula, instead of keep looking for something new after the rightfull failure of Lost World, they went back to the boost formula... It's sad, but it's the truth, in that moment i saw that Sonic Team doesn't have the courage to try something new, they lost so much that they are just afraid, they don't want to admit this, but it's the truth.

[@justice8718]

The boost formula is purposely meant to make Sonic control like a race car with fuel tanks.

[@brawlman2000064]

This obsession with "not pushing the series forward" is bizarre. Is it not better to make more of what people like and refine it rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater and alienate fans once again? By your logic, Lost World was the "pushing forward" you wanted, but apparently that game is flawed from the ground up according to you. So what do you want? Please enlighten me as to what the next 3D game could and should do to "push the series forward", and do the same for 2D Sonic too actually since apparently Superstars didn’t push it forward either in your opinion, you know despite the fact that you liked the damn game anyway so "pushing forward" really shouldn't matter but apparently it does even though it doesn't.

[@galacticspecter4364]

Sonic Frontiers was a game that pushed the series forward in a new direction, it was just done haphazardly and had problems like the controls, level design, combat, etc. Shadow Generations refined what was done in Frontiers to create a higher-quality experience while wearing its inspirations on its sleeve (Bowser’s Fury). I think that’s worth celebrating, when was the last time a 3D Sonic game was universally praised like this

[@brawlman2000064]

@galacticspecter4364 Exactly, Shadow Generations refined what Frontiers did, and most people seem to love it. So why is not pushing the series forward a bad thing? Why would it be bad if the next Sonic game was just a better version of Frontiers or similar to Shadow Generations but with all-new levels? How is that bad? As long as the game is good and is what fans expect from the previous game, I don't think it's very important to reinvent the wheel every single time, especially when there's only so much you can do to push a series forward. Like, what could you possibly do to reinvent 3D Sonic after making it open zone? Does it matter as long as the game is fun and the design is good?

[@igirjei3717]

The reviews for the sonic advance games might help you understand what he's getting at(although probably 1 and 3 in particular, 2 is relevant as well but it uh, doesn't *fully* line up with his current opinion of it lmao) In short it's not about reinventing the wheel, that's taking the argument to the logical extreme and I don't think that's what pariah is saying

[@legoboy7107]

@@igirjei3717 I'm noticing a lot of people in this comments section apparently aren't comprehending nuance, especially the nuance behind Pariah's takes.

[@igirjei3717]

@@legoboy7107 that's just a thing in the sonic community, no different here than anywhere else lmao

[@frickerrific2813]

Series over FINALLY. Loved almost every second of the series. Uhhh I don’t know I think this game was pretty great and did in fact evolve sonic boost formula with tighter controls, more controllable spectacle, and some third thing. I think it’s highly unlikely that an ever changing group of people like Sonic team are just gonna keep making the same game over and over again and they’re probabalg gonna have to put new stuff in or else more bad review scores for them. I do t know I’m optimistic that thing will just keep getting bigger and better but I’ve always been like that. Anyways great series pariah hope to keep watching you for years to come… Classic Sonic ate angel island.