Shadowdark TTRPG First Impressions: Amazing or Overhyped?

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

Are you interested in playing Shadowdark? Have you played Shadowdark? If so, what was your experience like? Did you play in person or online? If you played online, which VTT did you use?

[@twistedturns65]

I'm running a Shadowdark game for some friends with varying degrees of experience. Last night we ran a sort of one shot through FantasyGrounds since they hadn't released the 3rd Cursed Scroll zine yet (and half our players used that one). Now the players want their characters from the one shot to be their backup for the main campaign, and we'll be trying to use FantasyGrounds for our in person games.

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

@@twistedturns65 That sounds like an unmitigated success to me!

[@NightNoonGames]

I love it. I had been OSR-curious after getting sick of 5e. I tried with Old School Essentials, but it wasn't clicking for me. Then Shadowdark came around and it just made sense!

[@zednumar6917]

@RuneforgedTabletopGaming my bi-weekly group began meeting at a local game store last year then moved onto Discord. We meet every other Sunday for our campaign Shadows Over Harn. It's the best game I have ever played.

[@imemmag]

Ive run two gauntlets, a small diablo 1 campaign and am now setting up a darkest dungeon themed solo run. I used foundry, but dont really like the flow in a vtt. In person play was so much better.

[@ToddPutnam]

My group switched from 5E to SD las year when I got a review copy. It's fast and easy to run. Rules don't get in the way of the adventure. Compatible with pretty much all OSR adventures & content. Characters aren't OP so challenges and fear of death is real. 5/5 stars. It deserved all 4 Gold Ennies.

[@langwaters9653]

Same. My group switched from 5e to SD. Never going back, love it.

[@gabrielrossman2512]

Only compatability issue with other OSR I've noticed is treasure is less generous. Aside from that works great with other OSR. I've been running it for a year and only used one module designed for Shadowdark. Other than that, all OSE and Hyperborea.

[@ToddPutnam]

@@gabrielrossman2512 True indeed. Treasure changes can be made on the fly and the rest just works. Not saying it's the only great system, but it's my personal favorite.

[@mr.adamski6431]

I DM for a club after school with 6-10 students each week. I’ve been running it for a year now. As a DM I found Shadowdark much easier to run than 5e, and new players pick it up quickly. They voted to continue to continue Shadowdark over 5e moving forward. Great system and heavily reminds me of my gameplay back in the early 1980s. Kelsey deservedly won all those Ennies.

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

@@mr.adamski6431 That’s awesome! Thanks for sharing your experience! I imagine with so many players, SD must be much easier to run than 5e.

[@mysticmouse7983]

Can't buy it anywhere

[@stillmattwest]

Thank you, Kelsey, for making the old school a new school again.

[@NightNoonGames]

​@@mysticmouse7983it's back in stock on their website!

[@DMHightower]

I love Shadowdark. I play it a lot. Not all my peers in my group like it as much as me. We are mostly in our 50's. I also play with kids, teens, and adults in their 30's. I recently ran Secrets of Saltmarsh (5e) game usung Shadowdark. It worked perfectly. Everyone had a lot of fun. I've branched out into the greater Saltmarsh region using Shadowdark.

[@tc0930]

To answer the questions: I have been playing and running Shadowdark for over a year. I currently run an online campaign that is closing in on 20 sessions. I was a long time 5E quasi-forever DM. The simplicity of running Shadowdark compared to 5E is incredibly appealing from the GM side. If I never run 5E again, that'll be fine with me. This was also my first experience playing OSR style and it reminded me of the type of D&D I played what I was a kid (B/X). It is streamlined, simple and does everything you want. Once players understand they have to be more careful, survivability is really not that big of a problem. I run on Foundry.

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

@@tc0930 thanks for sharing your experience! I’ll also be running in Foundry (tomorrow, in fact) - really looking forward to it.

[@Joshuazx]

15:27 paraphrased "there are situations in the rules where the rules are clear and the expectation is that the GM should fill in the gaps..." This is the function of a referee or GM in a ttrpg.

[@HellecticMojo]

yeah, but too many rulesets try to pass that off as excuse for incompetent rules design. After a certain while you have to wonder why even bother with a ruleset if the GM has to make it themselves

[@Joshuazx]

@@HellecticMojo name one game that tries to pass as rule-lite to hide its incompetence. Why bother playing a game if the GM has to make it up themselves? Rules-lite games are generally easier to learn and faster to play because they rely on a referee applying logic for any given situation rather than recalling a rule. The spirit of a rules-lite game is I don't want to have to stop to look up a rule ever, and any logic-based ruling that the GM makes is going to be just as good as something the game designers intended.

[@willmendoza8498]

From experience, real time light works really well in my experience. Both my groups of players loved it.

[@chrisbruce9497]

We play Shadowdark pretty much exclusively. It’s rules-easy, so no problem for everyone to understand. IMO it is a really solid, well-built game with a low barrier to play. Not overhyped. Not “amazing”. Just solid, and it meets our needs. We rarely use torch timers, as that isn’t something that we feel a need for. Power comes from items, rather than gaining levels. I prefer systems like this to modern D&D where most power gains come because of leveling up. We are at seventh level now, and it still feels pretty gritty. We were down to the final roll against a dragon wyrmling before our mage was going to be permanently dead. They rolled a natural 20, came back with 1 hit point, and the party was able to escape a TPK. I’ve never had this happen in D&D with the crazy amount of hit points you get per level.

[@NightNoonGames]

Yes!!! Amazing that the wizard rolled that 20!!! I had a similar situation two weeks ago where it all came down to my one roll to save 3 of the 4 party members (that one person died earlier that round). I had a one-time use ability that allowed me to teleport myself and anyone I'm touching to anywhere I've been in the last week (at the expense of significant exhaustion). We had made our way through the dungeon to the demon's lair, having defeated their underlings, stolen the source of power we needed, I needed to roll a 9 on the die or it's a TPK, and we were all out of luck tokens. I rolled a SIXTEEN!!! What a relief it was! In twelve years of gaming, I don't think I've ever SEEN so much riding on one roll! The thing is, even if this example was the biggest, at least once every 3-4 sessions there is a significant event determined by a single die roll like this. I think the design behind Shadowdark can be attributed to helping nurture the opportunity for these moments in a way I just don't experience in 5e and have only ever felt frequently while playing Dread. *chef's kiss*

[@samdoorley6101]

I'd say two of the best VTTs for ShadowDark are Owlbear Rodeo which if easy, and FREE. If you want bells and whistles, I'd suggest Foundry VTT.

[@Skulliver-t8q]

I love it. Owlbear Rodeo has a good integration with the Shadowdarklings site. Light on a timer really keeps things moving and the tension when light spells fail and torches go out in a fight is really great. It's amazingly clean and easy to run. You get all the thrills of old school play with much cleaner rules. You get the better aspects of 5e without it being slow and "fussy". It also caps at level 10. Which is GOOD. as for the darkness and danger aspects, just not hearing "I have darkvision" over and over is wonderful. I really can't oversell how Shadowdark makes adventuring and exploration seem dangerous again. It also implies that people who go down into dark and forgotten places in search of riches are well, weird. Like, that is not a thing a well adjusted person does. Adventurers are sort of "found family" of matching or complimentary weirdness. Carousing just brings to mind the bender Conan goes on after that first raid on a snake temple. Classic stuff. Throwing an epic rager can make complete sense for a Shadowdark party after an adventure. It also explains why they have to go back into the darkness again and again. Alignments are Law, Chaos and Neutrality. Simple. You can be lawful and kind, or lawful and an utter prick. It's up to you how you work with the simplified alignment system. This is a big part of Shadowdark as OSR. Not everything is written down as a mandate from on high. You are trusted as a player or GM to work within the fiction of the moment. HOW you do something is not always a roll and much of it can come down to ROLE PLAY. I've run a LOT of 5e D&D and "the answer is not on your sheet" is a the biggest hurdle for a lot of people. Shadowdark is like having REALLY good Ramen. You might not think it is possible to simplify and provide an engaging and fun experience, but when you try it, you get it. As for integrating 5e players, I would just send them to shadowdarklings to spam the character generator and see what pops up. Rando PCs can be things of joy. You can make a pile of them in no time and it really is a bit like the thrill of one of those capsule toy vending machines. You never really know what will drop. Optimization and balance are not old school. Nerfing all danger by magic in easy mode is not either. It's not for everyone, but embracing the randomness and danger makes adventuring feel like adventuring rather than superhero glamping. It makes the wins much more amazing. Absolutely go for the Cursed Scroll Zines. Each of them is a mini setting, hexcrawl, bestiary and source of new character options and magic. They are an amazing value.

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! Some good insights in here.

[@likeasonntagmorgen]

I love torches that burn in real time, I think it’s an elegant and simple way to track your light resource! Of course it isn’t a one to one simulation, but it balances out bursts of exploration with discussion. If you play slowly this mechanic might make you feel more nervous about lingering too long on something. You could always increase the IRL time it takes a torch to burn out, though this might make the mechanic feel somewhat redundant, but there is nothing stopping you from tweaking this to find the tense sweet spot between frustration and apathy

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

Thanks for watching and responding! After playing with real time torches a bit, I think I’ve been won over!

[@MarkCherkowski]

I'm loving ShadowDark RPG. I DM a weekly 5e game for 1 year, and a second one for 6 months. I started a 3rd weekly game using ShadowDark, and I love it so much more! Fast moving, light timer creates some anxiety (I use an old Android with a torch timer web app), death comes quick, love roll to cast. Players are really engaged because you need to be or you are dead, and it is your turn again very soon. I hope to switch all my tables to SD!

[@MGunnarson]

Echo your sentiments about the Torch timer. In practice I found it very frustrating to implement. An hour is so long, it's too low-impact on a 3-4 (total) session. It's annoying to remember to pause timers when on breaks etc. My table does torches on a usage die. Starts at a d8, roll every round, deplete to d6 etc on a 1-2. Threats to the torch may trigger an extra roll, etc. This has worked VERY well for me.

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

@@MGunnarson great suggestion! Will try this if we find RAW annoying.

[@MGunnarson]

@@RuneforgedTabletopGaming the super secret extra benefit is that the torch depleting can become your random encounter trigger too, which further offloads work from the GM. I.e., when the d8 depletes to a d6, that’s your (GM) trigger to ask yourself if now is a good time for a random encounter…

[@srpyle]

We use the optional 30 minute Torch rule. Works great!

[@MGunnarson]

@@srpyle yeah I liked that a lot more too!

[@spiritualgodwarrior]

In BX, and hour is 6 rounds. Modify the timer rule to, "6 crawling rounds or one hour of real time, whichever comes first". Welcome to player crunch time to speed things up and keep their torches lit.

[@David-su4is]

We played online using discord and owlbear. I really enjoyed Shadowdark. We used the core rules, the quick start for Unnatural Selection and Into the Shadow Lands. we ended our campaign early to run the beta test for Daggerheart. Also quite a fun game.

[@zednumar6917]

I play online on Discord. You do NOT need a VTT beyond the level of a group chat. Use your imagination and trust each other to roll dice honestly. That's it. Go lo-tech style. It's an RPG, not a video game.

[@ARTBOMBIZOK]

Ran a few sessions RAW for two players, one older player who had played 2nd edition and one newer player who had played since 3.5. Both were also in my 5e game so had xp from a few editions. The old school player loved Shadowdark, was reminded of his teenage gaming (PC Fighter died in session 2 to a random Hook Horror). The newer player was shocked at how quickly the game ended and that death was always just around the corner. Both had fun, but preferred the ultra high fantasy of 5e for now. Currently play testing DC20 beta and loving it, but will run another SD next new campaign.

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

@@ARTBOMBIZOK Awesome. Thanks for sharing your experience! I’m curious to see how my group will react. DC 20 is another one on my list of games to try. So many new games out right now!

[@jacobbrown7367]

So one of the fun things that happened more often in older school games is adventuring for specific magic items and is really where the character customization comes in. If a player wants a specific ability or increase in power, then they can research and locate the item, either trough sages, legends or treasure maps, and then go on an adventure to obtain the item

[@JesseScottDotCom]

I liked this video but im looking for comparisons w/ DCC, OCE, Knave, and other OSR systems instead of 5e

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

Good to know! I’ll likely be doing first impressions for those systems in the future. Thanks for watching.

[@ahabstar]

If you liked the old meat grinder modules of the TSR days like Tomb of Horrors, Keep on the Borderlands and Temple of Elemental Evil can accept that you will die, roll up a new character and join the group when they enter the next room and release you from the cage. Then you will be fine. If you want a good story like The Chronicles during The War of the Lance…you can do that too. If you want to be superheroes in a fantasy setting that planned every last detail six levels ago…then it isn’t that kind of game. The bookkeeping with torches, timers, gear slots, random talents as you level and spell are pretty light. Your to hit and damage calculations are pretty light as well. But things don’t have a ton of HP either. Nearly everyone that has played it has said it looks possible on paper and then had a good time while playing once that inhibition had passed.

[@edwardromero3580]

I’ve been running a SD campaign for almost a year with players who all came from 5e. It’s been fantastic. To give the characters a better chance of survival I just let them roll 4d6 drop the lowest for stats and max HP at first level. I was skeptical about the torch mechanic at first, but in practice it’s easy to manage and makes for some fun unexpected moments.

[@stillmattwest]

I love how 90% of the criticism of Shadowdark in this video is actually sneaky criticism of a certain class of 5E player.

[@tunin6844]

From the perspective of someone that likes to run "unsupported" games on a VTT, I would say that if you have a character sheet built for the system, that is most of what you need. The simpler the system, the less you need anything else other than the sheet which should make rolling for various things quick and easy. Roll20 has a sheet for Shadowdark ( I just checked to be sure), so the main "work" will be creating sheets for monsters as needed and building any custom macros you want for hidden rolls, integrating random tables, as well as any convenient player macros you may find helpful for your gaming group.

[@satori2890]

I added spell and item cards because my plays 5e and SD on different nights

[@Heritage367]

I've been running SD for several months now (including 4 slots at Gen Con 2024), and I really like it. It has the feel of AD&D from my teen years without me having to go back to that clunkiness. One thing I don't do is limit my players to the core 4 classes in the rulebook. I allow all the classes from the Cursed Scroll zines, as well as the Bard and Ranger KS releases. For me personally, offering only 4 classes is too limiting, and I think my players (mostly PF1e folks) would rebel. I've run both with and without a torch timer, and while I enjoy it, to me, it's entirely optional.

[@DMHightower]

I personally love the Bard , Ranger, and Sea Wolf classes.

[@arphod]

I'm just the opposite. My own world and campaign could not be handled with such a rules-light system; moderate crunch is necessary in my group, which is a Dnd club of 19 people. However, for generic one-shot get-togethers this is incredible, especially if non-gamers want to play. That's why I'm buying it.

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

Makes sense to me. Do you have a "main game" that falls into the category of medium crunch? I'm planning to try out several different systems in the near future.

[@arphod]

@@RuneforgedTabletopGaming I run modded 3.5 with no prestige classes and about 100 feats. What could I recommend to you? Honestly, I'd go DnD 2e. You can do OSR-mode, or if you want crunchier you can stir in the Players Option books, the various Complete books, and Encyclopedia Magicka. You'll have to get used to THAC0, but it's simple. 2e is dial-a-crunch.

[@Le0byn]

Very informative thank you.

[@sorenandersen6832]

If your players want to be superheroes and run with narrative stories then this is not the game for you. ShadowDark is old-school D&D but streamlined with very clear and intuitive rules. 5E and D&D Next share some lineage, but the attitude, purpose, and areas of enjoyment are completely different. ShadowDark is about exploring the unknown, edge of your seat danger, trying to stay alive. The game, setting, and characters unfold for the DM and the players and it moves forward by creative collaboration and agency of the dice. 5E is character builds and the DM tailoring and curating a story that meets the narrative aspirations of the players.

[@ThEAcaDEmy533]

Great Review. This game is a continuing trend of new systems that are no longer happy with the Action Economy of DnD and Pathfinder. Sorry if I missed it did you get to the action economy of Shadowdark and did you have a thought on that. Also I run 9 games a week if you ever wanna chat about the online systems I use hit me up. Cheers.

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

Thanks for watching! I think I mention action economy briefly, but I may also have cut it out during editing. I’m a big fan of move and take one action. Hugely speeds up the game. One thing I struggled with in my first game though was deciding what classifies as a free action (e.g., opening doors, hiding, looting etc). Also, 9 games a week is WILD! I’m envious 🤣

[@NemoOhd20]

Tim Kask says he convinced Dave to avoid adding a roll to hit component to Magic Missile. Wizards were weak and low level ones only had that one spell. Rolling to miss on the Magic Missiles would be cruel. I too greatly prefer a different magic system. It spread from there.

[@Old_Wizard_Minis]

Need more durable characters? Max HP. Also give out magic items more frequently. There is no attunement. So go wild.

[@ThorMNKasp]

Will remain using BECMI and AD&D 2nd edition with some elements of Drakar och Demoner the black box and Drakar och Demoner expert.

[@Bulhedd]

SD is so flexible that it's easy to cherry pick from other systems. So if the base system isn't as bloated as 3.5/5e/Pathfinder you can always add parts from them to SD. Since all ttrpgs are pretty much pass/fail systems with probabilities, it's up to the dm/players to decide if heavy rules are more important or if the dm rules fairly based on what your scenario is.

[@colbyboucher6391]

Considering how D&D itself is overhyped I don't think it's possible for anything that isn't Pathfindef to be by comparison.

[@hectorrodriguez9382]

Overhyped for me. It seems D&D with another coat of paint. The majority of the mechanics in SD are already present in 5e as optional rules, or it can be easily homebrewed into it without altering the core. Personally I don't like most of the art style. Positive points for being short and concise, but that's it. I'll keep playing D&D 5e, or AD&D if I want something more "old school". That being said, I celebrate the success of the game, I hope Arcane Library keeps doing their thing. Who knows? Maybe in time I'll come back around it. Great video review, very thorough.

[@aaronbono4688]

What do you mean you don't have to roll on spells in 5e? Every spell you cast on an unwilling subject it requires either a saving throw or some kind of an ability check or to hit roll.

[@DMHightower]

Shield spell in 5e works every time, no rolling. Alter Self works every time, no rolling. In Shadowdark you roll to cast.

[@aaronbono4688]

@@DMHightower yeah but the vast majority of spells in 5e need some kind of role to succeed.

[@locusofintent]

This sounds pretty similar to Dungeon Crawl Classics. How do they compare/contrast?

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

I haven't played DCC yet, but it's on my list. Maybe someone else who has played both can answer.

[@TheMinskyTerrorist]

It borrows a lot from Dungeon Crawl Classics, which is something a lot more people should know about. Specifically roll to cast, spell mishaps, and 0 level characters.

[@SmaugBoi]

I am absolutely enamored with Shadowdark right now. It's what I've always wanted in a game.

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

Glad you’re enjoying it! I think it’s slowly becoming my group’s main game.

[@dwarvesanddragons6948]

I want to play Shadowdark but I'm annoyed by the fact that we rely so much on online tools. I think that by relying on whether a game supports online we lose the opportunity to try out new systems and stop using our brains programming tools that do things for us. So I'm going to use Roll20 only for rolling dice and each player will use their own printed sheet.

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

I totally understand how you feel. VTTs and semi-automated rulesets/modules are definitely a doubled-edged sword.

[@GldnMnky]

Then don't? Just play it on discord or zoom or whatever.

[@tasty_wind4294]

Honestly, I find Shadowdark kinda “standard”, and I already have a bookshelf filled with standard. For the parts I like, I already have plenty of games that offer the same experience . I really feel like it better advertising than anything.

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

What other games do you have that offer a similar experience? I'm in the process of trying out a bunch of new systems right now, and I'm always on the lookout for new ones.

[@tasty_wind4294]

@@RuneforgedTabletopGaming For the ones I consider pretty close to Shadowdark, the free ones are Basic Fantasy RPG, and Olde Swords Reign.

[@hawkthetraveler6344]

how does the title relate to the video's content? You need play time experience to answer the question.

[@cthomashand]

Good review

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

Thank you!

[@austindavid7155]

I'd have to say not having darkvision in SD is bogus, especially for elves, dwarves, goblins, and half-orcs. Dwarves have spent hundreds of years living under the mountains and in darkness, and so there's no reason why they can't be accustomed to the darkness of an SD dungeon. Why are slimes and skeletons "accustomed" to the darkness but dwarves aren't? Same goes for goblins and half-orcs, who live in tunnels, warrens, caves, and other dark places. Elves are inherently magical in nature and that's why they have darkvision. I understand why their darkvision was removed, however it's an artificial removal. I feel like the only reason it was removed was because it would greatly diminish the challenge of the darkness and reliance on torches. Having darkvision would practically trivialize the dungeon and undermine the game's design philosophy. However, by removing the darkvision, you undermine the concept and nature of the races themselves, and the lore surrounding them, if you will. Players intuitively know that dwarves and other underground denizens should have darkvision, and so its removal makes the game feel "off" to me, like I can see the green code behind the walls of SD's design.

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

This is something I spend a lot of time thinking about. I think you're absolutely right that the removal was motivated by a desire to shape the gameplay experience (and I like the decision to remove darkvision for PC's), but I understand what you're saying. One alternative that I like is that, if you have dark vision, you also have sunlight sensitivity, so there's a trade-off that needs to be made. I know that doesn't 100% align with what you wrote above, but I think it's one possible way to handle it. Regardless, thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@AEGISDEFENSE]

Having a hard time deciding to run this or Hyperborea 3ed.

[@chicksandwich]

Run Hyperborea. Its probably the greatest TTRPG ever made. This is just BX with edgy art.

[@fedev80]

SD somehow captured all the glory that many OSR games before it might as well have achieved. It's like all of the sudden everyone noticed such thing as OSR existed.

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

This is a very interesting observation. My guess is that other OSR games didn’t make much of an attempt to capture the massive 5e player base, while Shadowdark makes that transition easily. Also, Shadowdark had excellent marketing.

[@TheMinskyTerrorist]

That is my primary issue with it. It's a fine system and it's marketed and presented very well, but people are overhyping the rules, which have existed and been put together before at least a dozen times. When you point this out people get very defensive. There are a lot of 5e players and KZbinrs who are not only unaware of non-D&D games, they're only vaguely aware that there were other versions of D&D before 2014. That's the core demographic.

[@fedev80]

@@TheMinskyTerrorist I agree. Maybe everything lined up with the terrible disappointment around the new D&D version, coupled with good marketing, as @Runeforged mentions. But in any case I would like to see reviewers at least mentioning this fact. For the sake of fairness and to give people a chance of getting to know all that they've been missing for 20 years or so. It's such a rich microcosm, with so many cool games and works of love, just like SD.

[@ossbru]

I've played about 7 or 8 sessions in Shadowdark for now, and I really want to love this system, but the issues I have with it: - leveling system is fun on paper, but during gameplay - I can't find players that like it. - Players know about 1 hour of light rule. Usually, we have a cleric with light spell, many torches etc. so the light is never a problem. So overhyped mechanic that is just a little easier to track light than in other system - Initiavie system. If a rogue with highest initive seats on my (GM) right side, then her or his initive roll is disadvantage for other players. But - I like simple rules, simple spell description, magic system based on remembering spell until faile etc, I love random tables. Monsters' description is a little lacking, but I understand it. And the last part - I cannot feel the vibe and this is the problem... You see, I love DCC, and modules for DCC, and custom adventures for DCC, and impro in DCC. In Shadowdark, I've played just that one page dungeons that was availible to buy on premiere, but... It's to simple. I tried my own mini campaign in created world with players - still not feeling a vibe. I'm about to try last thing - convert DCC modules for Shadowdark, but if this couldn't save the "not feeling vibe" issue, than probably, for me, nothing can.

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

Thanks for sharing your experience! I'm curious to see how the torch mechanic goes and how much impact it actually has on the game. DCC is another game I'm looking to try out at some point. Let me know if you find that using DCC modules for SD solves some of your issues with it!

[@mr.adamski6431]

With as many as 10 players in my sessions, abundant access to torches can be a problem for me as DM. I now have monsters preferring to target players with torches. I will also use critical hits to possibly knock torches out of a player’s grasp and roll for the torch going out. Similarly I may use a fumble (natural 1) to result in the player accidentally dropping the torch with similar results.

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

@@mr.adamski6431 I love all these suggestions for how to attack the light. Will definitely be incorporating them if light isn’t impactful enough in my games. Thank you!

[@NemoOhd20]

The light mechanism seems underwhelming. Honestly, I forget it most of the time. No one cares.

[@locusofintent]

Is it that the modules are too simple, or is it something about the gameplay is too simple?

[@Tysto]

This would have been an amazing game if it had given players a few options in building a character. It's fine to have only four classes, if you can then customize your character with a few skills/feats.

[@zombietotseater3894]

Still not that interesting. Sounds like a hodgepodge of several games in one and honestly lost me at you don’t get Strength bonus to damage. So a big Nope 🙂‍↔️ 👎. I got enough OSR games

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

What other OSR games do you prefer over Shadowdark and why?

[@finger3181]

Swords & Wizardry Complete is my go to. I like Shadowdark, but the regaining of full points after a nights rest irks me. Olde Swords Reign does a similar job to Shadowdark for a quarter of the price (and it's free on odf)

[@kevoreilly6557]

It’s good, not groundbreaking

[@midnightgreen8319]

Shadowdark is just OSE mixed with DCC and adding the torch timer mechanic. If you like that, fine. It's not for me though

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

Yeah, I think it was mostly designed as a bridge from 5e to OSR/OSR adjacent. I can understand why folks who've been playing OSR for a while might be less excited about it.

[@midnightgreen8319]

@@RuneforgedTabletopGaming I'm glad if people enjoy it, as I hate 5e as a system and a brand. I absolutely love DCC and OSE as their own things though. DCC gave me the feeling of discovering RPGs all over again, it's wonderful!

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

@@midnightgreen8319 I have a lot of people recommending DCC. I’ll have to check it out!

[@NemoOhd20]

@@midnightgreen8319 Shadow Dark and DCC are my favorite games. And Index Card RPG, although I struggle to find people who want to play it.

[@NemoOhd20]

@@RuneforgedTabletopGaming It is a different feel, I think. If Shadowdark is B/X mixed with 5e, then DCC is BX mixed with 3E, with a heavy dose of Goodman crazy thrown in. I love the luck mechanism and the burn mechanism for magic. The tables are wacky, the modules are even more wacky. Plus I find it easy to convert adventures between Basic Fantasy, DCC and SD. Every once in a while Goodman has a DCC Humble Bundle so you get like 50+ adventures for $25. I will never play all the modules I have.

[@davidlewis5312]

spent about 3 minutes to realize, 'oh they took out the things I enjoy about playing 5e, cool powers and abilities neat I can take this off my interest list.'

[@DMHightower]

5e is great! Tons of variety!! Same game engine as Shadowdark, but different execution. Plus there's TONS of material for it. For me, Shadowdark is better. I can run any 5e adventure/campaign using Shadowdark. I spent 8 years running 5e games and I loved every game, campaign, and adventure. I prefer the ease of... EVERYTHING in Shadowdark.

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

Happy to hear the video served its purpose.

[@wileydutkiewicz3569]

Overhyped. 😂😂😂

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

What’s your main game and why do you prefer it?

[@albertmockel6245]

It's rather underwhelming, but the presentation and art are very good, and the marketing is stellar.

[@qwerty098cool1]

My group and i have been playing shadowdark for the last 6 months (we're not abandoning 5e, we just like to play tons of different ttrpgs). It's been fun. But my one critique as a player is that combat is mind numbingly boring. Each player is playing two characters, and I've played a thief and seawolf (from their zine). My group tries to avoid combat because it's so boring.

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

That's not great. I'll keep an eye out for that with my group. Thanks for sharing!

[@qwerty098cool1]

To be fair to the game, I think it assumes that most of the tactical "crunch" will come from spells and magic items since all most characters can do is move, roll to hit, then either hit or miss. If you have a GM like mine who doesn't hand out a ton of magic items or spell scrolls, then you'll mostly be doing the same thing every battle.

[@sorenandersen6832]

That is a fair criticism of ShadowDark, AD&D, and many D&D retro clones. However, you and your DM can run it different. Create and interact with the world around you. You: “I see a tree root rising up from the earth behind the troll. I feint left and forward, pushing out with my shield trying to make the troll step back and trip over the root.” DM: “Ok, that makes sense. DC 12 Str check. You succeed, but as the troll is tumbling backward, twisting its knee violently, it yanks the shield off your arm.” Don’t limit yourselves to simple rolls. All the moves and feats from 3e to 5E are there for any character to use, they are just not spelled out and codified and divided up among classes. And the list of feats and mishaps is limited only by your imagination and rulings by the DM.

[@kogorun]

So it's a very roguelike game

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

It definitely has some roguelike qualities, and you could certainly play it very similar to a roguelike if you wanted.

[@chrisbruce9497]

The stock rules in the core rulebook imaginea game setting that is basically a modern version of rogue. We don’t typically play in dungeons like this though. In my experience it is a refined version of D&D with all of the modern amenities like advantage and disadvantage, but without all of the character sheet bloat. We typically play in low power settings. “Black Wyrm of Brandonsford” is my favorite, but we’ve since gone entirely to home brew.

[@RuneforgedTabletopGaming]

@@chrisbruce9497 awesome! I’m going to be trying out Black Wyrm soon. So many folks have recommended it.