Shadowdark , The OSR, Cancel Culture, and Stupid Arguments

[@RobbyMaQ]

Spot on. Whatever she is, she doesn't share her political ideology either publicly or in her game. Which is something this grognard appreciates more than anything these days. During the 80's and onslaught of critics on Punk Rock (amongst everything else surrounding the satanic panic), Henry Rollins once stated that of ALL critics he had to deal with back in the day, the biggest surprise & disappointment was with their fans. "God forbid we play a song longer than 30 seconds, and a fan in the audience would yell 'What are ya playin? Freebird?' ". lol. Doesn't matter what hobby is involved... We are our own worst enemy.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

All comes in service to the tribe. You even see some "OSR" folks who say Gygax became the enemy when he made rules revisions to fix problems he had already acknowledged and already started working on.

[@TheOGGMsAdventures]

Thanks for the shoutout and the link. Happy to Stan for my pal KD and the success of her Shadowdark game.

[@davestory8614]

Like most OSRs, this game doesn’t have any new mechanics - different elements are pulled from existing games and fitted together. Likewise with the concept of bridging old school with new. It has been put together nicely, but I found it redundant for my collection. However, when something does get successful, you’re always going to have your protestors - it has nothing to do with the actual product, it’s has to do with the success of it.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

You're spot on. It is 100% jealous bucket crab behavior

[@xmikenecrofentx]

Great video. I think your points are well thought out and very reasonable. I feel like SD has done everything right and people are in such disbelief they have to find fault with it somehow. Honestly SD is my favorite TTRPG ever. It’s everything I’ve wanted in a version of DnD for a very very long time.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@xmikenecrofentx it's certainly a well thought out and executed retro game that hits the right note for a lot of people. I think of it a lot like modernizing a classic car. She found a '67 vette that ran ok but needed some work and she went in, rebuilt the engine with EFI, put in a modern ignition system, mated it to a modern 6 speed automatic transmission, added a Bluetooth satellite radio system and modern climate control, upgraded the suspension and brakes, and installed power locks, windows, and seats. It's a better driving, safer, faster, more comfortable car that looks cool, but there are some purists who insist she ruined a classic by changing anything to what wasn't available in 1967. To make it worse, now she's buying up old corvettes, fixing them like hers, and selling them to people like the cool old look and feel but want a smooth ride, Spotify, and an AC that doesn't feel like a dog breathing on you.

[@johnrechtoris9796]

"Bucket crabs", I need to remember that one. :)

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@johnrechtoris9796 add it to the list with chess pigeons

[@bonbondurjdr6553]

The lady also hung out in the right circles, this should be a lesson to anyone who wants to suceed. You don't succeed by being alone, you do so by hanging out with other talented people; Runehammer, Prof. Dungeon Master, etc. in her case. Also, Texan accent best accent! 👌

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@bonbondurjdr6553 lol accent does it every time

[@brucehubbell9116]

You are making entirely too much sense. :D Enjoyed the video and got some good laughs out of it. Subscribed and "liked" as well.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@brucehubbell9116 welcome aboard. I'm not just here to broadcast a neverending face-palm, I'm here to educated and entertain

[@UltraTtrpger]

This was a great video! Definitely some great insight!

[@drivinganddragons1818]

Thanks, I didn't even get around to touching on these idiots who think SIMP means "says something not negative about a woman"

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

She's been treated as someone to never touch. Still not hearing she is "in the right side of history".

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115 I don't see that as the case. The issue is very few people are bringing legitimate criticism and the ones who are (as well as the ones simply offering balanced praise) are getting drowned out.

[@mrmooney25]

Driving and dragons, what a combo. Adding this channel to the list of things to listen to while doing body work.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@mrmooney25 much appreciated. That's literally how this channel started. I was listening to Seth Skorkowsky while pulling a dent out of my camaro and was like "why not". I'm not looking forward to the body work on the Z

[@RobbyMaQ]

on a sidenote, i plan to replace a parking light on my 2015 ford escape. Turns out to be a 2+ hour job involving removing the entire front bumper lol. So Looks like I will be replacing turn signal lamps, fog lights, and parking lights on the sob. It's worse than the 1+ hr battery change involving removing the windshield surround and airbox just to get the battery out. I need a new car :(

[@drivinganddragons1818]

Lmao I had to do the horn ony wife's Explorer. Easy right? Pull out the hood latch, swap the horn, close up? 10-15 mins with a 10mm socket? Hell no. Remove the drivers front tire, dismantle the fender well, reach an extension in behind the bumper, 2 hours if none of the bolts seized (one did)

[@RobbyMaQ]

@@drivinganddragons1818 This has to really suck for people not mechanically inclined... $600 to replace a 2$ parking light bulb

[@drivinganddragons1818]

Trust me, I owned a Jaguar. I know it really sucks when a cheap part costs a fortune to replace.

[@AgranakStudios]

My review of ShadowDark was all via my own money!

[@drivinganddragons1818]

I think the only one that wasn't was Questing Beast

[@LarryOwens-g8b]

Thank you for a balanced take on the recent stupidity.

[@michaelmullenfiddler]

I listened to pundit for awhile. Though he sounds self righteous and didactic, he has some interesting ideas and opinions about rpg. I might by some of his products one of these days. On The Other Hand, he wears his politics on his sleeve, and boy did I get tired of that. At some point it seemed like all his videos were self righteous meanderings about everything BUT rpg, and I just had to stop.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@michaelmullenfiddler Pundit would definitely benefit from a bit of scripting. He's worse than I am at getting off on a ramble session. That's also the danger of having multiple areas your content focuses on. I thought about having car restoration tips in my videos and adding notes of interest when driving instead of just using the footage as my background. But I realized that would lead to some of the audience simply clicking away instead of trying to play 5 sec skip to find the TTRPG content.

[@johnmichalek9802]

Getting back into ttrpg’s and not liking what I see in wotc. Found Shadowdark and downloaded all her free stuff to see what it is about. Probably going to buy her stuff and have some fun.

[@RPGPundit]

Like you, I also found it amusing how they went back to Xanga archives from 16 years ago to shockingly reveal that I hated Neocon warmongers before it was cool (and was gullible enough, like many other people, to think that Obama would be anti-war and the kind of moderate he pretended to be in his first campaign).

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@RPGPundit my general position is that none of that is relevant to the discussion of SD nor is it refute any actual points made. Though if you choose to make politics a metric by which you judge a creator you must be willing to suffer the same.

[@Zirbip]

This video earned my sub

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@Zirbip well thank you. Now I'll get to work earning a share and notification bell 🤣

[@JonnySaysHi413]

Good points, well said. Even with the clumsy bucket metaphor ;)

[@whangbar]

Well said.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@whangbar thank you

[@RPGPundit]

My criticism of Shadowdark when it was being crowdfunded was never political at all. And the hate videos the usual suspects have made tried to imply that I was behind the comments Venger & Red Room made, in spite of me making a video & posts that debunked those comments. I was saying "the sky is blue" and they were trying to claim I said it was red.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@RPGPundit I didn't get that from their video.

[@Frustwell]

You spend half your waking hours complaining about "the left" only to behave like the worst of it. You are entirely disingenuous. Dungeon Craft, Bob World Builder, Unscripted & Unchained, The Gaming Gang, Questing Beast, Tenkar's Tavern, etc, etc, etc. Every one of these channels that gave ShadowDark exposure have promoted DCC or other games from which the game has harvested its inspiration. Your claim that those praising the book are oblivious is a lie. You withdrew a part of your argument but you lack the humility and maturity to admit that like it the rest of it is also just made up. 5E diehards are in the thrall of Wizards of the Coast and refuse to play anything that doesn't say D&D on the box and absolutely hate Gary Gygax and hate any old school approach to gaming while ShadowDark's author has shown nothing but respect for Gary Gygax and celebrates old school D&D. Your claim that most of her customers have only ever really played 5E is nonsense you have just pulled out of your posterior. You can't provide evidence of this claim but many are the older gamers speaking highly of the game. You are a jealous man-baby who much like Venger produces game products that aren't thriving because they aren't half as good as products by people like Gabor Lux or Ben Laurence.

[@FMD-FullMetalDragon]

​@@drivinganddragons1818 Just recognize that Pundit is a narcissist and a bullshit artist.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

I reserve my judgements for my personal interactions with individuals. Especially online, everyone has a brand and let's face it, anyone sitting in front of a camera shouting at the void has some level of narcissism, myself included. After all, who am I to assume you guys all want to hear my opinions on gaming? That said, I don't take anyone at face value, I just give them the grace of seeing how they handle it when I leave them an opening to do wrong simply by acting in good faith.

[@insomnolant6043]

This is the first video of yours I've ever seen, and the take away is that you want to play with "wee-wee chopping ladyboys." Have fun with that.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@insomnolant6043 if that's your take away you weren't paying very close attention. Either that or you just wanted to confirm your sociopolitical prior. Have fun with that.

[@canalsincontenido]

Isn't Shadowdark compatible the same as OSE compatible? I don't recall people complaining that OSE was stealing the thunder or taking people away from B/X

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@canalsincontenido there isn't really a good reason to complain. That's kind of the point really.

[@VengerSatanis]

All I have to say at this point is read the blog post yourself, and back my Primordial Chaos gonzo guide kickstarter.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@VengerSatanis I saw you were back. Going pod I think will be a significant boon to your sales. You can count on me backing it

[@VengerSatanis]

​@@drivinganddragons1818Thanks, hoss! Maybe we'll even see a Shadow-Cha'alt adventure in the near future?

[@jeffrojohnson9149]

"muh forty years"

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@jeffrojohnson9149 indeed. As a friend once said to an old hand "just because you've been wrong a long time don't make you right"

[@talscorner3696]

Rocket surgery? Practice and study it long enough and you'll make it work. Navigating the ttrpg speakosphere? Anyway, about tocket surgery...

[@drivinganddragons1818]

Lol

[@adampender2482]

Ill never buy it. I only run 1e/2e AD&D. It just looks like every cookie cutter game system. Condor defended Kelsey btw. I get tired of all the white knighting and simping for someone that wouldnt give these "men" the time of day in real life. Shes a millionaire now everyone should remember that

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@adampender2482 the difference is Kelsey actually adds value to the space and Clowndor is at best annoying background noise. The guy is completely narcissistic and delusional. And SD isn't really cookie cutter, it's a solid blend of OSR and modern improvements, but definitely not my style nor conducive to the campaigns I run

[@RPGPundit]

Note that the things Venger & Red Room were saying about SD were totally different than my original criticisms of SD. The only part of those criticisms they even touched on was the reviews, and missed that when Kelsey stated she had only paid for a single review, I immediately accepted that and withdrew that part of my argument.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@RPGPundit I don't see it as relevant if she paid for 500 reviews. That's a standard industry practice.

[@Frustwell]

You spend half your waking hours complaining about "the left" only to behave like the worst of it. You are entirely disingenuous. Dungeon Craft, Bob World Builder, Unscripted & Unchained, The Gaming Gang, Questing Beast, Tenkar's Tavern, etc, etc, etc. Every one of these channels that gave ShadowDark exposure have promoted DCC or other games from which the game has harvested its inspiration. Your claim that those praising the book are oblivious is a lie. You withdrew a part of your argument but you lack the humility and maturity to admit that like it the rest of it is also just made up. 5E diehards are in the thrall of Wizards of the Coast and refuse to play anything that doesn't say D&D on the box and absolutely hate Gary Gygax and hate any old school approach to gaming while ShadowDark's author has shown nothing but respect for Gary Gygax and celebrates old school D&D. Your claim that most of her customers have only ever really played 5E is nonsense you have just pulled out of your posterior. You can't provide evidence of this claim but many are the older gamers speaking highly of the game. You are a jealous man-baby who much like Venger produces game products that aren't thriving because they aren't half as good as products by people like Gabor Lux or Ben Laurence.

[@Frustwell]

You spend half your waking hours complaining about "the left" only to behave like the worst of it. You are entirely disingenuous. Dungeon Craft, Bob World Builder, Unscripted & Unchained, The Gaming Gang, Questing Beast, Tenkar's Tavern, etc, etc, etc. Every one of these channels that gave ShadowDark exposure have promoted DCC or other games from which the game has harvested its inspiration. Your claim that those praising the book are oblivious is a lie. You withdrew a part of your argument but you lack the humility and maturity to admit that like it the rest of it is also just made up. 5E diehards are in the thrall of Wizards of the Coast and refuse to play anything that doesn't say D&D on the box and absolutely hate Gary Gygax and hate any old school approach to gaming while ShadowDark's author has shown nothing but respect for Gary Gygax and celebrates old school D&D. Your claim that most of her customers have only ever really played 5E is nonsense you have just pulled out of your posterior. You can't provide evidence of this claim but many are the older gamers speaking highly of the game. You are a jealous man-baby who much like Venger produces game products that aren't thriving because they aren't half as good as products by people like Gabor Lux or Ben Laurence.

[@Minodrec]

​@@drivinganddragons1818The fact it's wide spread doesn't make it ok. Access journalism is a big issue. Once you get paid it's an ad. Disregarding how essential being independant from what you review is amateurism.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@Minodrec that's not entirely or even mostly true. Paid reviewers have to maintain credibility or their reviews become less valuable. More than one author has been burned by a bad paid review. The thing is, the reviewer is not being paid for a review, theyre being paid for the awareness they bring. In that way, they very much are an ad. One other thing, would you work for free? No, you wouldn't. If reviewing things is your job, then that's your time being paid for. The only caveats I would place are that all reviews should have the same price. If your number is $1,000, then Stephen King pays $1,000 and do does some unknown author self-publishing their own book.

[@gmmayhem7956]

Comment for your algo.

[@yert9362]

"I'm not doing a political rant, it's the truth" - goes on a political rant

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@yert9362 an observation of facts a rant does not make.

[@chriswarner8906]

​@drivinganddragons1818 speaking as an older, white, Catholic guy - the supposition that Obama and the left is when "this stuff really got going" is definitely an opinion, a revealing one, and extremely hard to quantify as fact, much less verify as such. I like your message here and I think you are doing your best to be reasonable. But we all have to guard against presenting our perspective as facts sometimes, and this is an instance I feel bears calling out. Take it as you will. Otherwise, glad I stumbled across the channel. Not familiar with much of the speciific chatter you are addressing, but I recognize sour grapes when I see them and you make a great statement against them here.

[@Coyote1911]

I wouldn't say that Shadow Dark is compatible with the old versions of DnD because it has ascending AC. Shadow dark is more fifth edition than anything. Also this is getting left out of the conversation but I lost a lot of respect for Kelsey after she sent all of us Kickstarter backers an email begging for us to vote for her in the Ennies. I don't trust anybody that respects that institution of the Ennies.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@Coyote1911 respect or not, the ennies are instant market recognition. It's like getting a high rank in gane informer. Unless you're a "gamer" you take them more or less at face value. "Gamers" know that GI reviews are worthless, but if you're "gamer" enough to know that, you already looked into the game way before it came out.

[@Minodrec]

​@@drivinganddragons1818But's it's not bucket crab mentality to.dislike the Ennies or notice the amateurism of some "young" YpuTuber wannabe game journalist. I don't hate the players, I hate the game.

[@Coyote1911]

Well, for all the talk of this video about political ideology. The Ennies is the worst of the worst. Like I said in the comments of double D's videos, I was willing to support her as long as she stayed neutral. I backed her Shadow dark campaign I even bought the awesome limited edition book cover and everything. Lately I have noticed that I don't like the company she keeps. While she is nice to folks like Venger and double D to their face at conventions, she has not appeared on anybody's channel that isn't a lefty since she was criticize for being on Tenkar's channel. Another thing that I think is relevant to this conversation is that she mentioned in one of her AMA videos that her "wife" was a marketing executive.

[@goldentoad5769]

Using ascending AC doesn't make something not compatible with old versions of DND. It's literally as easy as 20 (or 19) - Descending AC = Ascending AC.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

Kinda like PDM says, at the end of the day, roll a D20, high is good. Congratulations, you know how to convert anything to D&D now lol

[@bigblue344]

I'm sorry but if somebody is far into a political ideology I am not going to trust them because they are eventually going to backstab me anyway over a harmless comment or perceived slight.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

Thats where you have to make that judgment call. Nobody so deep into their ideology that they need to be of immediate concern isn't going to mind their Ps and Qs anyway. When it comes to buying products, I look and see if the game books themselves are pushing political or social ideology, I look for personal activism from decision makers and public faces, and I look to make sure they aren't aggressively supporting specific causes above and beyond what is expected of a company their size.

[@MalfeasanceQ]

The character assassination of Pundit by BLG seemed very irrational. They were taking a few things he said in the past and presented it as proof that he was duplicitous because of the things he has said recently. People are allowed to have opinions and then update them as their experience and their environment merits. People often have opinions which they regret in hindsight. That's part of being human. That's not being duplicitous. Sure, he had a kneejerk reaction to Kelsey's comet-like success and thought it was due to some leftist driven support scheme. When he found that she had no public political affiliations, and that she had prior RPG publication experience, then he no longer pursued this line of thought. And he never said that ShadowDark was why people aren't making money, that was Venger's allusion. And somehow BLG took Venger's position and then directed their full ire towards Pundit. Pundit also contrasted Venger's lack of sales with his own continued ongoing success, which indirectly counters Venger's notion that his poor sales are a direct result of Shadowdark's existence. Yes, that may be a big part of it, but that's not all of it.

[@Darkwintre]

Yes I watched BLG's video but could only watch until their ire against Pundit became clearly obvious. Dungeoncraft put a post where he explained his part and when Pundit found out about that mistake he apologised for his own mistake. But despite that my word they hate his guts!

[@drivinganddragons1818]

I tend to agree here. I like BLG, I like TBE, and I like Pundit just fine. In my limited interactions with them and the ones I've personally seen fully aware of the context, they've generally all acted in good faith and been fair. I do feel Pundit is the more willing to play character assassination games that are more based on personal feelings and less on legitimate grievance. In this case, it almost felt like BLG chose to take the opportunity to go off on an ally who had his back to them. Pundit tends to rant his initial observations rather than wait for all the information to cone in, and that not only causes him to issue corrections at the same time people are going off on him in responses, but it lends credibility to the claim that he changes his story and position frequently.

[@MalfeasanceQ]

@@drivinganddragons1818 Yes, Pundit's tendency of being a zealous radical reactionary is a double edged sword. In this case it came back to cut him.

[@TheMinskyTerrorist]

This is dishonest about what really happened and it sounds like you're just repeating what you heard in another video

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@TheMinskyTerrorist exactly what is dishonest? If you want to claim someone is being untruthful you need to be specific.

[@TheMinskyTerrorist]

@@drivinganddragons1818 There are like 2-3 people on twitter and 2-3 people on therpgsite forums who idly speculated about Shadowdark, and Venger made a vague reference to it. For some reason this caused a lot of people to circle the wagons and claim that there's some kind of giant right wing cancel mob, "crab bucket" "tribal mentality" the whole deal. It's made up. It never happened.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

That's demonstrably untrue. I've personally seen dozens of established OSR personalities go on the offensive. It has led to numerous streams and videos going all the way up to larger creators. Now did I ever mention some "right wing" conspiracy? No. I simplely pointed out that the are some who have gone out of their way to dig up her politics to find a reason to attack her which is very much true. It's also true that many of them also routinely claim they want politics to stay out of gaming. There are also smaller OSR creators who have absolutely taken what Venger said well beyond its intended meanimg to fuel the bucket crab mentality. To be fair, these same people gripe about C&C, or Baptism of Fire, or TBEs stuff, really anything vaguely OSR and popular they can blame for their own failures, but they are still there. There's no dishonesty here and what I'm saying is based off my own observations. But you disagreeing does not equate dishonesty.

[@TheMinskyTerrorist]

@@drivinganddragons1818 Dozens? Really? I'll make it easy on you, can you list 10? Also who are the smaller OSR creators that hate everything?

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@TheMinskyTerrorist who said "hate everything". I didn't make a list buddy, go on X and do a search. I see comments, I take a look at who posted them. Same with Discord servers. It's not on me to provide a list of names with blue checks or DTRPG pages for your examination. It's not this tiny group of one or two you would like it to be.

[@KnightKashmir]

I've generally been a fan of RPGPundit and his products even if I don't agree with all his takes. I am only mildly interested in what he's done that you would call reprehensible, but not enough to watch 2 hours of Black Lodge Games, who I generally don't find entertaining or particularly insightful. At the end of the day though I suppose I don't really want to know, ignorance of the drama is bliss. As for Shadowdark, I kinda get the initial suspicion and can't really put it all down to sour grapes. Whenever the KZbin and 5e crowds get involved with something it's only natural. It does seem like a solid product with a good business head behind it. You're 100% correct that Matt Colville should draw more ire. I think perhaps he doesn't because it's just so blatant and also what we've come to expect from the modern mainstream media machine.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

The long and short is he's participated in cancel culture on very specious grounds and made some very serious allegations about other people based on talking about games to people who have genuinely said some terrible things. That said, I think BLG really missed the mark with a lengthy "why we hate" Pundit stream instead of spending 15-20 mins on it then focusing on the SD attacks. It's not a good look when they choose to attack someone who actually took a very fair stance on the topic everyone is discussing, particularly when they were generally in agreement on that subject. Not all criticism of SD is sour grapes, but the overwhelming majority of OSR backlash has been, either from creators themselves or by proxy through their loyal fans. Thus far, the you tubers in the 5e space that came out to talk about SD are easily the least polarized or objectionable and/or the ones closest to the middle ground between 5e and OSR. It's not like Generic Ginny Di came down to support a fellow female author against the evil patriarchy she believes exists as the BBEG.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

Oh yes, and Fuck Matt Coleville. I do love that take though "Matt gets away with it because he's such an obvious hack his supporters obviously signed up for it" lol

[@KnightKashmir]

@@drivinganddragons1818 Ah, ok. I had only ever heard about the fake neo-nazi stuff redditors regurgitate. And yeah, fair point about the KZbinrs, though my experience with the Knave 2e kickstarter soured me on Questing Beast.

[@Grognard6Actual]

Her marketing was brilliant. The game is trash. It's just an incomplete, poorly organized summary of OSE and BFRPG with a few house rules added. For example, nowhere does it explain how Hit Points are calculated. And monster descriptions make it impossible for newbs to understand how creatures behave and where they live and how they interact with players. The emperor has no clothes and those who point that out are getting swarmed for doing so.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@Grognard6Actual there's certainly some backlash to legit negative reviews thanks to the more outsized responses. Though to be fair, a LOT of OSR and other indie published games make the mistake of assuming their players are experienced and know certain mechanics by heart before going into it. It's a mistake for sure, your rules should always be written as if the reader has never even heard of a ttrpg.

[@SHONNER]

Next they'll be saying that girls can't run OSR games.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

Maybe. They started that nonsense with Harmony Ginger. Honestly, I think it's just sour grapes and jealousy for a lot of them.

[@SHONNER]

@@drivinganddragons1818 When I was a kid, there were nerds my age. The "patient zero" kind. Of course, they didn't age well, having never developed any social or coping skills.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

Lol that tends to happen to Clowndor types

[@SHONNER]

@@drivinganddragons1818 Condor can't help it. He has to put a spin on everything he sees/hears. He is unable to relay information (truths) without perversing it.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@SHONNER very true. Hes guilty of virtually every sin in my last three videos about debate and discussion

[@spudsbuchlaw]

I agree with the take by and large that she aint hurting anybody and yall need to shut up about politics where it dont need to be, especially that the OSR sphere has been content for years to just release hacks without concern. As an art and DYI movement that's cool but no one can expect that to blow up like SD has. I also gotta say, a lot of the reason why the left care so much about excising right wingers is because those people, even good, kind, not racist, not transphobic etc conservatives are likely supporting politicians that materially hurt their community. Perhaps intentionally, or not. And that becomes a big problem, sitting across the table like we friends while you hurt our community on the side. That's not nothing. Cancel culture, and the left's focus on identify politics is, like all things, magnified on the internet. Most people do not have crazy extremes, most people never cancel anyone. But you yourself brought in some misinformation, ( 11:19 "wee wee choppin'...") and a lot of these folks feel that when misinformation is presented (more seriously/concretely) and isn't challenged, its proliferated, can spread, and can harm people, as all lies can. To be clear, you could be using that phrase sarcastically or jokingly, I don't know if thats something you actually believe and I wouldn't crucify you for it. But that is a buzz word used to propagate harmful misinformation that is intended to hurt trans people, and we gotta be aware of that

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@spudsbuchlaw I wish all gender dysphoric people get the therapy and mrntal health treatment they need to correct their problem. That's not surgery or hormones for the overwhelming majority. I categorically disagree with the notion that conservative policies harm any communities and I view that entire stance as part and parcel an expression of culturally toxic tribalism that has been fed to the people by all major political machines. If a person's identity is their politics, they have a serious problem. That said, you're correct, this is not the forum for political discussion and there's no reason for politics to be a determining factor at a game table. My table has at times featured avowed communists, militant athiests, evangelical Christians, people of all sexual orientations, and of course myself, the conservative Latin Catholic banker. The only person I've had to turn away from my table? The guy who wanted to be the cleric of some weird fetish sex god dedicated to delivering acceptance of physical love to the world... He was informed that our take probably wasn't the best for for him.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

And for the record, no, the words peepee chopping don't feature in my serious discussion of my personal stance on transgenderism.

[@BX-advocate]

I just think Shadowdark is bad because it contains 5E filth.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@BX-advocate some would argue it's simply fixing the flaws of BX

[@BX-advocate]

@@drivinganddragons1818 They would be wrong. You cannot fix something that has no flaws in the first place, Moldvay made the best edition.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@BX-advocate lol love the shtick

[@BX-advocate]

@@drivinganddragons1818 And I'm shticking to it.

[@BX-advocate]

It doesn't follow OSR play though so that point in your video is wrong. If you want evidence of this answer this question, what happens when a character reaches 0 HP in Shadowdark? If the answer is anything other than die then it's not OSR.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

@@BX-advocate that's certainly one definition.

[@BnaaUK]

That definition would mean 1st edition isn't OSR though. Because 0 was knocked unconscious.

[@BX-advocate]

@@BnaaUK Yes I consider that to be a poor rule on Gygax part.

[@spudsbuchlaw]

@@BX-advocate So, you admit the premise is inherently flawed? Lol plenty of OSR games dont have death at 0

[@BX-advocate]

@@spudsbuchlaw I don't consider it to be OSR if you don't die at 0 HP. If you disagree then fair enough but if any distinction of OSR can be changed then what is the point of a definition? I mean if it doesn't matter then 5E is OSR and so is every RPG. It's a Ship of Theseus situation.