Shadowlands BIGGEST NERFS YET! (HUGE UPDATE)

[@avgadam4289]

I'm so glad the beta testing is going so well, cant wait till release 😪

[@hermit44]

Can you do an updated tier list for classes and their standings in PvP, like a few days after these changes...

[@bradbecker8982]

Us enhance shamans feels we should keep our healing and high burst damage. Reparations for our tribulations expansion after expansion. Yes I’m speaking for the group.

[@ImperviouslyGaming]

lmao.... yeah i got hit from 100% to 10%, altar'd back to 100% right... missplay by sham cause didnt purge etc etc.. doesnt matter, next gcd he legit globaled me for 100 back to 10%.. I then block etc. was in an arena match so rest doesnt matter but still. That is not okay, that is a 1 button rotation 1 shot macro essentially MoP 2.0. the damage is all ascendance and AAing in ascendance etc, thats a joke. im okay with stormstrike doing massive dam, but not fucking ranged auto attacks sorry. And im not bias, i am playing other classes not just caster. Casters feel terrible for the most part compared to melee rn

[@ernec.5326]

Hey men when other clases are doing 17k swings we need the instant healing specially since we can’t turn to wolf or astral shift when stunned which we usually get killed 1.7 secs while stunned. It really helps with the squishiness of the enhancement. I can finally stay alive 10 secs into arena unless there’s a rogue lol

[@shiugen676]

@@Hemlocker This. Tbh Astral needs to be castable in silences and stuns for all shaman specs

[@ancornapowaznie2344]

amen

[@maxencebur7454]

We have 1 defensive cd's and our heal is huge only on crit but still people complaining about our "low tier" class just cuz the got rekt in arena

[@synthesis9957]

As an affliction lock i love these changes

[@havarti74]

Same Bro !

[@187BulletProof1]

My poor affli teammate in 2v2 arena gets absolutely obliterated by rogues. We were praying for changes like this.

[@eliph4165]

@@187BulletProof1 at 2.1kmmr 2s as affl lock playing with a disc priest I have more problems vs surv hunter/ww/enha than rogues

[@AntonKlermon]

@@187BulletProof1 какой твой рейтинг и с кем ты играешь?

[@henny8677]

@@eliph4165 rogues damage is insane but they literally die in 1 second in a stun with no trinket. They seem broken to noobs just cause u can 1 shot someone but it’s probably cause u literally didn’t do anything and he used every cd.

[@americanindisguise]

great changing covenant abilities now that we've all settled into covenants... ffs i knew i shoulda just gone with the best cosmetics cuz the abilites were gonna get fucked

[@santeriviljanen3924]

there are 3 diffrent options not only pega for mastery

[@borges3099]

Eh venthyr looks so sick for rogue but the abilities are literal dogshit. Necro ftw, still looks decent I guess.

[@naquan59]

I same i wanted to be nechro lord just because their gear covers my zans trolls feet.

[@andrewshandle]

But even for Sub Rogue, I bet Kyrian is still best due to the Phael and Pelagos mastery bonus is _still_ pretty great. Rather than blowing your entire wad on one burst, just use Enveloping Shadows and do two bursts...one to bait the defensives, one to actually 100->0 them. Night Fae might do a bit more damage now (maybe), but turning into a Ghost Fox doesn't help you much. Kyrian just isn't overwhelmingly the best anymore.

[@brandonchan3648]

@@andrewshandle with the current damage sub rogues are doing after the nerfs, ppl don’t even need to use defensive cds to deal with their opener anymore LOL

[@SinetraxDani]

Still not a single prot paladin nerf.. gotta love being outhealed as a holy pala by a prot pala with 45k Word of Glorys... in arena. Blozzard needs to put their head out of their ass and play their own game

[@ABHandreas]

50% nerf to pelagos is a huge nerf to prot pala and just palas in general. What people don't get is ret can do the same amount of healing as prot. They just lack a fast way to "gain holy power" = blessed hammers.

[@SinetraxDani]

@@ABHandreas that wont make them any less stronger healing wise tho... their word of glory will still do 45k crits while i do around 11k on my Hpala at best. and its 190ilvl

[@ABHandreas]

@@SinetraxDani what i see in arenas playing as prot is people, never go on the prot = prot can just stand and spam word of glory which heals the less % hp you have the more you heal. My highest crit heal arena 39k outside arena 88k i agree that is too much. But what i also see is 0 people, know how to stop guardian from a prot, instead you see priests trying to mass dispell. All you have to do is stun the guardian or kill it.

[@SinetraxDani]

@@ABHandreas thats from your own pov. i can tell u that me and my team (and alot of streamers i watched recently such as Trillebartom / Cdew etc) are focusing the prot. either focusing him or infinitly ccing him so he will be locked down. not going on the prot doesnt nessecarely means 45k word of glory is justified to be as it is in arena. idk why i am even saying this.tanks shouldnt be able to queue in the pvp bracket anyways.

[@ABHandreas]

@@SinetraxDani most of the time i would agree on that with 0 tanks in pvp but then i would also say the same in 2s about healers.

[@stevenhalley4500]

Really enjoy these patch note breakdowns. Please continue these throughout

[@tylerfrakes1753]

I'll be in my bunker with convoke the spirits. Door is open to my other druid homies.

[@CuriousDiscourse]

helllllll yes dude druid ftw

[@synthesis9957]

Its kickable its not that good

[@CuriousDiscourse]

@@synthesis9957 that's what makes it fun and rewarding when executed properly, it does not guarantee instant, massive damage, it actually requires skill to use to full effect. I In an expansion of OP instant-cast covenant abilities, it is refreshing.

[@Mcspazz731]

@@synthesis9957 they cant kick if they are in CC 4Head

[@tcplaya2882]

Starsurge damage needs to be nerfed and so does ferocious bite damage. If rogues get completely gutted like they just did they need to nerf everything

[@karlwarda7628]

As venthyr sub rogue, I also am very happy about these changes. If the 95% of rogues get their first hit on me, I'm not gonna get nuked out without landing a hit anymore

[@rajansahota7469]

As a necro rogue i agree

[@faldarith]

nobody look at night fae, just gonna be over here with my backup cheat death on case the first cheat death fails me

[@karlwarda7628]

I picked venthyr cz soulbind allows me to escape roots if a caster is attempting to nuke me

[@joelobrien6224]

Lawl cheat death in pvp. 🤮🤮🤮

[@ATRS2K]

Im a venthyr sub too, if only they could buff Flagellation a little bit, it still feels so underwhelming of an ability

[@lukesmedley33]

Don't really agree with calling out all the big burst of other classes. If it can be lined, cc'ed, or otherwise countered, it can usually be outplayed. A lot different to being 2-shot behind a pillar, or dying in a cheap shot.

[@aarni-2660]

i wish they would buff other classes istead of nerfing good classes to the ground. My class wasnt even nerfed and im still dissapointed about these changes.

[@jasonmendoza2044]

@@aarni-2660 I’ve literally always thought this way

[@borges3099]

@@aarni-2660 I play sub and the nerfs don't even affect me that much cause I'm not kyrian and it just bothers me more that they're nerfing shit super hard rather than doing gradual changes. It's just going to lead to a damp shitshow. Shadowblades nerf was unnecessary with the huge kyrian nerf since it's on a 3m CD, like tf?

[@aarni-2660]

@@borges3099 Yeah i feel you. I hate the direction this is going in.

[@lukesmedley33]

I don't think most classes need buffing. The meta is bursty, and personally I think it's more fun now that it's faster paced, but I don't more burst is now the answer. Maybe they've gone too far and nerfed them into unviability, but dying in a cheap shot, or getting two-shot behind a pillar, deservedly needed nerfing.

[@intergalacticspacewizard1966]

I'm mainly a PvE player and I am concerned about these changes, I've dabbled into PvP this expansion for the trinkets and I've really enjoyed how fast paced it feels. I really wouldn't want to see another BfA situation as I barely bothered with PvP in that expansion, in fact I never got my PvP essences despite their effectiveness in PvE just because of how awful PvP was

[@borges3099]

Pvpers and pvers appreciate your comment

[@chimichangaaa9412]

Nah people dying fast isn’t the problem, people dying WILDLY fast is the problem.

[@brandoncomer6492]

1:36. That is not how it works. You're decaying at the same rate because you are starting with less total crit . Instead of it being 50-40-30-20-10 it will be 40-32-24-16-8. It is a straight nerf and under no circumstance will you ever see more potential damage from it

[@mastermight2]

Math hard

[@andrewshandle]

Agreed. It seems that any time math includes percentages, people get confused. For him 10% decay > 8% decay, but in realty it's a 20% drop at each chunk but the new one starts at a lower number, so it'll always be worse. He does the same when he says that moving from 12% to 8% is a "4% decrease" when it's really a 33% decrease.

[@haiasicg]

I main and love Rogue. The nerfs were necessary. I was enjoying the troll play and was waiting for the nerfs.

[@EcstasyXtz]

I feel like people keep missing the point... this game is a damn mmorpg, classes are supposed to have pros and cons, and they are supposed to cover their cons building up synergies with other classes. People approach it with a solo player mentality. This isnt a single player game that boosts your ego. You arent supposed to be a badass that does everything well and never looks at explosions. Rogues had EVERYTHING. They had sustain potential, they had stealth, insane burst, the best control one could ask for, and arguably the best defensives in pvp, on top of insane mobility. Take a step back from being a rogue main and think about other classes. For example: MM hunters had burst too, but their only defensive doesnt allow them to do damage (so its a tradeoff), while being squishy and having to aim some of their cc. Rets have insane burst, but tragic sustained damage, atrocious control and shit mobility. Yes, they have bubble, but it can be dispelled by certain classes and its on a 5 minutes cooldown. Yes, they can instant heal for alot, but they spend holy power to do so, which means they give up doing damage to heal. Plus they are affected by dampening, with no other defensives other than their healing and the one time use bubble.

[@jakubbb0033]

wait wait wait show me one sub rogue that does sustained damage, have you even seen that insane damage outside of shadow dance ? you mind very well stop your ret main point of view

[@EcstasyXtz]

@@jakubbb0033 my bad with the choice of words, I meant sustainability, as in self sustain (healing)

[@borges3099]

@@EcstasyXtz healing..? What? You mean crimson vial? Lmao

[@Sio91pmw]

Leave it blizzard to make a system where you penalized or swapping factions after they destroy yours....

[@ruger5044]

sub rogue main?

[@grabeck666]

Oh you played something that was out of hand and now when it got balanced you are salty?...

[@jaimepadilla4328]

@@grabeck666 how dare rogues not be able to kill someone with 1 macro!!! Its not op at all reeeeeeeeeeeeee

[@BeowulfGaming]

@@grabeck666 if you truly think something is "balanced" then you never set foot in arenas. By "balance" you mean you can get a kill while not watching whats going on and not using trinkets at all and just pressing 1,2,3, as ret paladin? good for you. its because of people like you that game will be shit in pvp just like in BFA

[@seetheious9879]

You made a meaningful choice. Now reap your meaningful mistake.

[@spookyturbo1618]

This will put rogue in line with where I would expect it to be. Now people will realise some of the other classes/specs do far too much sustain damage. Subs sustain damage is nonexistant, and it will be hard to live long enough to set up a kill with some of the damage other classes consistently put out. That said, none of the other covenant abilties in my opinion feel good as a sub rogue in PvP. None of them will be used in the burst rotation, and subtlety's sustain is non existant, and a covenant ability won't fix that, so where do any of the covenant abilities really fit for them?

[@adrianbb3070]

you can brust almost every 30 secs donty cry. go necro.

[@borges3099]

"now people will realize other classes will have too much sustained dps" ah yes this is what happens when Blizzard just mega guts a class instead of doing small nerfs overtime which will lead to a chain of massive nerfs for every class instead of buffing and making the game a boring ass tank healing spongefest with no flavor or fun at all. Welcome to bfa soon tm. Also necro shield is hard to pass up.

[@borges3099]

@@adrianbb3070 lol, without shadowblades which has a 3 minute cooldown (and got nerfed btw) sure you can "burst" in a suboptimal state vs 20k hp/s heals.

[@adrianbb3070]

i know the struggle.

[@trevorhoward6115]

I'm always safe on my survival hunter :) idk why more hunters dont play survival. It's really good in pvp in my opinion.

[@ltcavelier5]

Because it’s one of the most hated specs in the game. Nobody wanted a melee hunter and yet here we are. Blizzard got high and forgot they had people actually playing their game. As a hunter since vanilla... fuck the new survival spec.

[@trevorhoward6115]

@@ltcavelier5 we all have our opinions, I personally like it better than the old range survival.

[@DAlex181D]

Survival Hunter is definitely not hated. Maybe there are some butthurt people wishing old survival back, but I dont think it's a majority. I find that Specc way more fun now especially compared to WoD Survival. MoP, Cata and Wotlk one was fine, but not as interesting.

[@rolandlee3150]

@@ltcavelier5 Nobody? lol just the ranged butthurts. Survival is awesome as melee, like classic.

[@nickbanderson]

I really liked wod survival but I don't hate the new one, it's just as cool and even more unique. Rip old explosive shot

[@magp1e]

The most frustrating thing for me is the indirect buff to prot in 2v2 due to the dampening change. I'm not too worried as ret with the Kyrian change. With the mastery diminishing returns, as we get more mastery from gear, the Kryian buff will take less effect as it gives you x-amount of mastery and not a certain % so if you hit around 35% mastery on your gear I'd guess you'd be hitting just as hard as you are now (estimating here of course) So while right now it's a nerf, with gear this could actually give us higher up time of damage as the duration is increased. Curious to see if others agree or not?

[@meramusa]

*looks around nervously in convoke*

[@Dervraka]

That's why, early in a raid tier, when a friend or guildmate brags their class is performing at the top of the raid rankings I always chuckle. That means the nerf bat is headed your way very soon, you are far better off if your class is about rank 5 or so in the DPS rankings, high enough to still be great and still get invited to raid, but low enough to avoid the inevitable nerf that will drop you to the bottom of the pack.

[@shaunelko9181]

Please tell me I'm not the only one getting double ads every 3 min in Supas video... I purposely turn off adblocker for youtube to help support the content creators, but my god, this is unwatchable.

[@Renwoxing13]

Pretty sure content creators get to choose there ads frequency/etc?

[@dorout1]

I have to say that sub rogue was completely out of control and a change was desperately needed. One stun guaranteed a trinket and even then you would still die especially if you are a resto shaman. Blizzard needs to keep the damage high, but not 100-0 high. Dampening shouldn't exist. It is such a half-assed feature which allows Blizzard to kind of, but no really 'balance' pvp.

[@KwalleSon]

Most classes have multiple defensives while enh has one and a poor one also, I feel like selfhealing of enh is one of his defensives, i feel like they should nerf healing other targets and leave the selfheal option

[@ernec.5326]

Not to mention a stun (enhancement) that takes 2 secs to cast and avoidable by every class except another enhancement lol

[@KwalleSon]

@@ernec.5326 That is also true. It is probably one of worse stuns in the game in terms of pvp, ofc you can parry it up fmwith sunder to hit it but using 2 gcd for a stun it is not really optimal i feel like

[@shiugen676]

Just the fact it has a mana cost.... that ooms you after 4 heals is a nerf enough tbh

[@AkkarinRothen]

I dont even play enhancement, but ihm happy to see it got some love. Should stay that way. Was a meme class for ages

[@KwalleSon]

@@AkkarinRothen in pve still getting kicked from parties with message "bro ur enh lol" and if someone invs me is super surprised about the damage. In arenas i feel like the burst is a bit too high? If people dont pop defensives i can oneshot in like 4 globals but i need a full setup and it can be easly kited or completly shut down the whole burst window, without cds enh isnt scary to be honest

[@allenfang888]

Are you able to control how many ads play cuz it’s a bit excessive.

[@ccdxdhk1575]

I think just redesigning the rogue legendary would have been enough. Instead of giving their out of stealth burst, a massive buff make it so they can burst more often. Right now people have to press all their buttons to live a rogue opener, and once that's over the rogue is screwed (mostly). I think it's pretty boring for both the rogue and other players.

[@Philly757]

Just remove rogue from game 😝

[@skyhawk427]

Nah, utility that rogue has makes that kinda dmg ridiculous...one class shouldn't have it all in pvp.

[@BeowulfGaming]

@@skyhawk427 ever rought a ret or spriest in arena? what rogue does in 3s with 5 global CDs ret can do consistently througtout whole arena...

[@shiugen676]

@@BeowulfGaming please don't compare what rogues were doing to other classes. Ret should be ok with divine toll conduit nerf we'll have to see, sp likely needs a glance

[@AkkarinRothen]

@@BeowulfGaming wtf u talkin about? Ret is burst reliable, with cd's, such as a rogue. The only constant dmg buff are random wings. And while other classes can get easy behing pillars to los, our stupid wheelchair is stuck, bcs of this stupid sandy ground As a rogue, with no cd's, u had no op one shot burst but still high constant dmg. Look at all these noobs which got carried so hard by the rogue it self and now they are thinkin they are better than pikaboo

[@lostatsea8845]

PLease let me know.. How do you feel about BOAT after the nerfs? Crafting my lego and I still feel it is the best choice for night fae druids.

[@callumwilson6897]

Honestly I think sub is dead now. Even watching Pikaboo a lot recently, his damage is not good outside any of his CD's. All the damage for sub seems to be in the opener and just waiting for things to come back off CD to do any significant damage. If you survive the opener then there's a high chance the rogue is dying. Sub is pretty hard in 3s. Outside the initial one shot potential (which I agree should have been nerfed) sub falls behind a lot of classes. Don't think they will be able to do much now like you say.

[@austin4855]

Exactly. Rogues can't win a 1v1 outside of dance. Take away dance without redistributing some of that damage elsewhere and they are done. I could accept this nerf to their burst if they at least gave me enough pressure to get someone below 80% HP outside of dance. In duels my wife's rdruid outheals my backstab rotation with ysera's gift and efflorescence beneath her and nothing else. I can then kill in dance - but if she DOES survive the dance, it's right back to 100% HP and no progress made.

[@Francis-of8cw]

Maybe they should increase the base damage on skills outside of the big cool downs then if sub now is nerfed too hard.

[@donsasponsa5295]

Thank you for the grea update on the meta Supa. I have a question: I am maining resto druid and am struggling hard since its so bursty. Do you think rdru is fine and I just have to get better or is it a good idea to reroll at this point? maybe disc

[@oichtown]

they need to not be so reactive and just slowly tune instead of just crushing classes and cov. Kyrian sub rogues are a dumpster fire.

[@andrewshandle]

They still have a great defensive against some comps, and even getting 50% mastery from Pelagos is still great because the Mastery buff was ridiculous in the first place. It also lasts 50% longer, so if game play is longer now, you can get 2 Dances off with 50% extra Mastery. It'll change the play style a bit, but moving away from 100% burst focused isn't necessarily bad. Besides, as a Sub Rogue, you aren't switching to Necrolord or Venthyr for PvP, so I imagine Kyrian is still competitive with Night Fae.

[@oichtown]

@@andrewshandle To be fair the only class I get killed by in seconds is other sub rogues. and maybe rets hahah I'm just a little salty because I just changed to Kyrian. Pikaboo will still be a god but the rest of us normal rogues might take a hit hahahah

[@RichieH023]

Thanks for going over these - great work Supa. Thanks.

[@berkdeniz8042]

I dont think hybrid healing is problem. Ok rogues and some one shots are nerfed buy there is still lots of dmg in game. You throw couple heals and you are in danger again cuz you are oom.

[@vincenzomusella3029]

Agree

[@doses1591]

So sad. I’m very worried for PvP. I came back this xpac because I thought the dampening meta was going away, but it looks like blizzard is just taking the same route again and everything will eventually be nerfed rather than buffing weaker classes.

[@Dovayofnature]

As long as i can keep my lavaburst playstyle im happy, also the happiest class is prot paladins cuz they dont have anything to onetap them anymore

[@peterpeterson3385]

Well they never had anything to onetap them lol? They can use immune and if they do not know how to use it / forgets to use it, well then they are bad.

[@dat1d00dx17]

Exactly why I didn't level my rogue... it felt like a trap, and it was!

[@liadori8053]

Finaly going back to my rogue thinking this is the season when i can play my favorite spec. Then blizzard just poops on my dream. Feels bad...

[@OGboi]

literally leveled my rogue 50-60 yesterday now this...

[@Storytimemike]

LOL rogues are not dead this is just people who wanted and easy one shot macro win crying about not being able to get 3400 in one day .....

[@ryanwinsor1689]

It was ridiculous how strong they were.. even with 50% damage nerfs they’re still going to be absolute beasts with all their utility AND damage. It just requires a little bit of skill now

[@gonzajd777]

druid nerf is big, if you consider the small buff window... totally unnecesarry. balance is not that kind of classes that you can roll your face and make dps... that legendary add more complexity amazing that balance got nerf but not some clases like pally

[@suficationz4978]

"Omg rogue is so broken" presses divine toll and does 16k damage presses templar verdict does 16k damage and has more healing then a healer in arena sometimes

[@sebastiantorres6220]

Dont forget the dummest button, fucking bubble

[@xChinobi]

As a rogue player for 15+ years kinda sad they destroyed sub. I understand tuning. But come on. Why not talk about prot paladins healing like a holy pally and destroying people like ret? Or ret pallys having wings for 1 minute being able to bubble and destroy everything. As a rogue our opener is EVERYTHING... sad but I guess time to adjust.

[@PwnLinked]

Good thing everyone already got glad with their broken classes

[@simkont6793]

Eh lol top 1000 players is like 2.2k rating last time i checked so managing to get 2.4 +50 wins week 1 you gotta be real good.

[@shiugen676]

Well they might not have glad but they have rating they didn't deserve and weapon enchants, mogs etc 🙄

[@simkont6793]

@@shiugen676 If thats the point well then it's as it has always have been..... Warlocks bfa s4 anyone? dks in wrath? Idk all the metas but I know for sure there has always been classes way ahead of everyone else and they have gained rating because of it. But what is also true is that there are people that can no matter the class or spec always get to the top. Get good and you can also have the things you point out no matter what you play.

[@bcristian4014]

funny how 2000+ spec percentage is NR1 18% sub NR2 15% disc Nr3 10% warrior Nr4 9% WW... 4 specs that make 50% from 33 specs

[@antiinline]

it was literally the first week, relax

[@posthardcoresinger]

I mean this is pretty simple right like, we needed burst nerfs (even burst healing in SOME cases), we can just increase sustained DPS to keep games moving without having to revolve around impossible to respond to burst, make sure mana matters for every healer, basically solved if we get all of that.

[@SARS_infected]

What happens if Enhance healing is reduced? Enhance disapears from Arena. there is a huge difference to Ret Pala and Druids.

[@ernec.5326]

Healing is all we have since astral shift can’t be cast while stunned and capacitor totem cast to so long and easily avoidable. We get deleted before we even get 5 maelstroms anyway.

[@shiugen676]

@@ernec.5326 I legit die whilst still on my mount sometimes (21% vers). Tbh I think my biggest annoyance is how we run out of mana so fast...

[@Ernestas23]

When games are fast, i dont mind enh healing, but if games are slower, their healing has to go.

[@SARS_infected]

@@shiugen676 agreed. Healing is strong but we oom hella fast. If you are lucky enough to get the heal in time. We still need defensives. That I would trade for a healing nerf.

[@SARS_infected]

@@Ernestas23 if games are slower, enhance is oom. So you don’t have to worry their.

[@ItsBarnabyJones]

Pls make a guide following this video on suggested classes to play and comps due to these changes. I’m having serious problems determining what to play that I can’t even have fun anymore b/c I feel like every class I have played since pre patch has just been constantly changed to the extent that I’m flustered:) much help appreciated. I’m a min/max. Thanks

[@fab2lats]

Without nerfs rogues didn't even have to use 80% of their kit to kill someone. They will still be strong and actually good players will do well. Perhaps the nerfs will diminish the number of fotm rerollers.

[@borges3099]

Uh what they use 80% of their damage kit otherwise they will use shiv for dmg (/s) or the target just tanks and heals to 1000% hp

[@kalleanka2796]

I don´t think this will slow the pace to much yet, but also worried about that happening. Still a bunch of speccs out there that do insane damage, if not most.

[@Deviant-Blades]

Legit what you predicted, they're going to remove the OP and then target the new OP and so on till PvP is dead again.

[@grabeck666]

You mean PvP is playable? Dude I have 30k hp, +6k fleshcraft. 36k hp and I pop 30% reduction as soon as I am attacked and I die in 4 fucking seconds in arena. So yeah...

[@austin4855]

@@grabeck666 They're removing damage instead of redistributing it. Take rogues. Sub rogues can not kill a target outside of dance. So if you nerf dance just a little too hard... suddenly rogues can not win a 1v1. You fix these issues by redistributing some of the damage away from the cooldowns and into the sustained damage, or by nerfing both damage and healing at the same time. Further, if you keep removing all of the classes that make games move faster, you end up with nothing but long games and that is a terrible design, especially when it takes 24 wins, or 15 wins and 40+ losses, to get just 2 slots in the weekly great vault.

[@bi0lizard1]

Where would you rank Warrior? Very concerned! I decided to main one in SL Warrior life kinda sucks now! I feel like I don’t have much of a home in Pvp or PvE now. Warriors won’t be taken for raids or mythic in their current state. And in PvP, they are being outshined and outclassed. I just don’t feel like I have much of a place in this meta as a warrior atm. Reroll time?

[@francoisturgeon1176]

i got a warrior ... people dont invite me in raids and pick other classes . i duo with my brother mage and i die from literally everything LOL . my dps is trash in raids .. so i dont know ...

[@MixalhsFFC]

We are getting there that nobody dies. Healers gonna stay afk and they will not die. Who want's that again? All high pvp players where happy with these fast rate why so many nerfs? Just buff the classes that are behind! Very bad change's

[@zeljakis817]

agree but kids are crying,cos rogue is noob stomper

[@popojaga7312]

Yea rogues wont be able to burst people in cheap shot, game will be so slow... Game is fine and will be outside of few busted classes that hopefully becomes more reasonable

[@popojaga7312]

Or that looks ok www.reddit.com/r/worldofpvp/comments/k6d8xz/atleast_i_have_room_for_some_counterplay/

[@sigma699]

@@popojaga7312 pre nerf it's not doing this anymore at all

[@Luntrus100]

Buffing everything to state of being broken isnt a healthy thing for a game. You dont know what u are asking for

[@jonathasrodrigues3073]

I knew ER needed to be nerfed, but they overdid it, they butchered it to unplayable levels, as a rogue, any games that didn't end on opening meant classes like arms, windwalkers or pretty much anyone else would eventually double or triple my damage in arena (since our damage outside windows is crap and we need to kite and reset often, while those classes just keep going). What happened to small continous changes until we achieve good balance? The worse part is that I will need to reroll covenant, there's no way around it, and here we go again, through the anxiety of choosing the rogue bis covenant again.

[@antiinline]

Pretty sad about these changes tbh. Just a bunch of really huge nerfs and almost no buffs. Guess we are going back to a dampening meta.....

[@DylanM333]

good i love dampening on my resto druid. hated the one shot 10 second meta

[@DylanM333]

@A Bell you must play a rogue or mage l0l mad

[@igbl108]

I have a feeling when i wake up i wont be able to play my main spec of sub rogue again for another expac - which is why i quit the last 3. The kyrian ability nerfs are fine but without the mastery from pelagos I wont do any damage at all. This is affectively a 50% total damage nerf on top of making the covenant ability useless.

[@roflret]

Woooooo hopefully no more one shots! Also here we go with the outcry regarding nerfing with covenants and being a pain to change around.

[@ryanglacier30]

Rogue is still going to 1shot but only the good ones will know how to do it

[@RenonTTV]

@@ryanglacier30 no they won't lol

[@RenonTTV]

@@ryanglacier30 also, sub rogue in 3s is gonna be dog

[@la7era1u54]

I don't think the burst of Spriest is that high compared to almost every melee spec and some ranged. I know the defensive ability is better than most other classes, but it's still easy to shred through defenses with how high damage is in general. I'm only around Ilvl 180 with my Spriest so that might skew my perspective, but I also haven't noticed other Spriests doing major burst against me either. I was planning on playing all healers this expansion disc for priest,, but healers are next to useless compared to hybrid specs right now. I can do almost as much healing and much more damage on my hybrid classes compared to my healers

[@Scarjosip]

Rip to all swiftys oneshoot macro rogues including me :D its about time though... i hope we're going to get rid of the tanks

[@lyfealert8691]

Good fuckin riddance

[@_Malvar]

dude, YOU HAVE THE TINIEST PEPE IN THE WORLD. the 1 shot requires no skill, and if thats what you need to win ur just bad at the game. and you still get your skulkers wing and im sure rextroy will find the new 1 shot for sub rogue within a week.

[@Scarjosip]

oukey... lol

[@madokaonline]

Oneshots should happen but not by 1 single player. It has to be coordinated between at least 2 or 3 players. All at the same time.

[@OldManDoom]

Oh you mean that a Sub rogue shouldn’t be able to kill my brewmaster in a one shot? Through a celestial brew shield, dampen harm and fortifying brew all pretty much being up simultaneously? No way, Rogue players are just so stinking good that they all played the exact same way barely having even a button press that wasn’t uniform

[@namikazeomar8001]

Hahaha

[@namikazeomar8001]

Feel you bro

[@0hb3]

Sorry but you must be talking about 2s or casual bgs cause watching Pikaboo lose to RET/war/priest in HIGH rated arenas non stop only beating newer players running that comp did sub need a nerf yes but they are COMPLETELY gutted now I can’t wait for most of your classes get a slight nerf and watch you call blizzard devs names and moan about them not knowing how to balance shit and I play a WW/Warrior you’re stupid if you think this is how it will stay I bet they nerf other classes because now with rogues out of the way other classes that are performing well will get fucked and end up being in another m/l/s meta with HIGH rated games lasting 45min+ into dampening so celebrate now I can’t wait to see you cry later into the expansion when only those classes are viable

[@Thieu_C]

idk i feel like they are to fast to make big changes like this , i liked the flow of the game so much rn

[@Torresgamingchannel]

Unholy dk here. Getting slammed because of pve tunning feels so bad. We keep saying it's not going to affect us but at some point it will.

[@eriktippie978]

I'm so scared iv been loving the spec lately and it feels really strong but I had to grind to get good at it, if they nerf it too hard i will be very sad

[@Torresgamingchannel]

@@eriktippie978 yeah, frost feels garbage. if that ends up my only option then im rerolling

[@kmaker8537]

I think frost is a good contender with unholy. At least pvp wise . Frost has a nice burst with the right leggo

[@andrewpaul8732]

Unholy has been topping dls charts no matter what content i see them in. Youll still be chosen first in M+ ques

[@xnvidia2a]

DO you even realise that you are 10% dps ahead of everyone who has their leg while you don't yet ? come back on earth son.

[@santeriviljanen3924]

But you go diffrent kyrian thing than the masterty thing the other 2 are decent still. Its not like the mastery kyrian pelagos is the only option now.

[@borges3099]

Yeah but echoing reprimand (quite A big reason to go kyrian) will literally hit less hard than shadowstrike now.

[@Justin-yc8ff]

Well rogue bois, come join the feral party 🥳 😜

[@this_smitty23]

Feral and Convoke are both next I'm sure, sadly.

[@Mcspazz731]

@@this_smitty23 The Feral Druid Union has already bunkered up with convoke and ferocious bite

[@this_smitty23]

@@Mcspazz731 I liked Kyrian anyways, convoke is nasty but too gimmicky and easy to shutdown in a lot of settings.

[@tcplaya2882]

Ferocious bite damage needs to be nerfed

[@this_smitty23]

@@tcplaya2882 Yeah, the bleeds are absolute trash. I'd like to see some damage from bites transferred to bleeds, it's bound to get nerfed either way.

[@Dutchdifferent]

What’s your take on the necrolord ability fleshcraft? I feel like it’s ruining 2v2 arena honestly.

[@Elgar337]

Necrolord Sub Rogue. Before the nerfs. After the nerfs - Cedric Daniels 2020

[@endofexistence2149]

I to am a nercro sub rogue.

[@OEmpaladorPrateado]

i was necrolord since the begining

[@JoaoPaulo-si8kq]

ew, i tried necro but the covenant ability dont feel good pressing at all

[@AntonKlermon]

@@JoaoPaulo-si8kq yep. its just cheap combo regenator with no damage

[@endofexistence2149]

@@AntonKlermon after trying night fae you will notice it. I would use my fae ability and it felt like nothing happened

[@Deivs65]

Great update video. Missed kyrian mastery change when I was reading trough myself. Thanks.

[@voriq5879]

I love how sub rogue is man its ky favourite spec and i was baffled in BFA when it was just garbage, i understand it was just brutal before it gets nerfed, but i just cant stand playing Outlaw and assass spec man it just feels so boring and it just feels so bland. I've been playing rogue for so many years now and i hate being forced to play a spec i dont enjoy. I'm just hoping Sub isnt completely shit after this nerf.

[@BathgateToushiru]

They should nerf PvP not pve he was barely average+

[@Kimtanashino]

It clearly deserved a nerf, was doing too much damages on top of : best controls, stealth/initiative, best defensive, regen out of combat in stealth, great mobility... It can't work if a class can kill an other while fully stunning it.

[@voriq5879]

@@Kimtanashino yeah i 100% agree it did need a nerf, im just nervous the spec being unplayable after this nerf in PvP. along with probably having to switch covenants now :s

[@Kimtanashino]

@@voriq5879 I understand you, Sub rogue doesn't deserve to be that forgotten spec we had in BFA, it's clearly a nice spec despite its overtuning in PvP. Changing covenant isn't that hard if it's what you need and regaining renoun isn't as hard as it appears at first sight

[@voriq5879]

@@Kimtanashino and i just got my BiS Legendary lastnight too! praying sub is still okay to say the least!

[@samisuhonen9815]

matches definitely don't feel slow. Even when A-B tier (specs that people aren't asking to be nerfed) are the only classes in the match, it feels very fast. The only way it will take a long time is if people choose to play very defensively, but it definitely feels like if you make a mistake you die. Generally facetanking burst cooldowns from almost any spec is certain death if you waste your defensives. You can't just have your healer spamheal through anything like in BFA. I still think some specs need tuning down, while obviously some need buffs to be more viable. Sub deserved these nerfs and more, since it is THE control spec of the game. They definitely should flat out deal less damage than sin, or sin is completely useless. I'd argue that if you're very good, you could get glad as sub even if all of your abilities dealt literally zero damage. You could still be viable with a high damage partner, solely through the insane potential of kidneyshot+blind+sap+duel chains on healer, and the option of smokebombing the kill target too. All while you can also stun both dps with relative ease. Having the shortest cooldown and fastest TTK burst on top of that was just actually broken. Still I think some specs deserve looking at, both buffs and nerfs. Arms could be tuned down in their tankiness department, and maybe execute damage could be reduced a bit so you don't have random back to back 15k executes if all the procs and crit luck aligns. WW has such insane mobility, it's insane how much damage they pump out. The most faceroll spec atm to play and hit glad with easily. You have zero CD mobility on your builder so you can train a target with 100% uptime, warrior mortal strike, long AoE stun, one of the best bursts, and stupidly high sustain damage. On top of that you have so much mobility to just run away from most specs trying to burst you down, or just power through it with your arsenal of defensive CDs. Unholy DK damage might be ok after this mastery nerf, but they do need a bit of survivability. Training the DK shouldn't really be "the strat" imo. Death strike could maybe see a buff to it? Maybe the general tuning down of burst damage, and their conduit ranking up is enough. Balance druids are lowkey actually busted. They are able to pop convoke, get full AP if not already at full AP, luck out 10-17k starsurges and full moons on any targets. This ability will melt an entire team to shreds. Yet this alone is ok, it's easy to stop you might say. But what about convoke giving them like 400 mastery for 30seconds? For any that don't know, mastery increases the benefits of eclipses, star surge benefits from both eclipses making it double dip from mastery during their incarn. Star surge isn't nature school, so even kicking convoke INSTANTLY won't save you, as they will still 15k+15k bang anyone on your team in two globals. So this is a cooldown that can melt your whole team at once, and when stopped or finished, can easily throw 30k+ damage with 2 instants. And on top of all that, they have a legendary that even after this nerf, gives them 40% crit in either eclipse, so the odds of getting crit multiple times are really high. It's legit like BFA destro but with instant chaosbolts that hit even harder compared to your HP, and with no setup required. They even fill the same tankiness niche, as they go bear affinity while stacking conduits which make frenzied regen pop automatically at low hp, and heal more. Then there's locks, DH, and shamans who definitely need some updates to their defensive kits. DH might be fine with the darkness legendary, and conduits eventually buffing their defensives to absurd levels. Locks are just fucking paper at the moment, the % max hp shield is like it doesn't even exist with this damage, resolve is a 3min CD wall that people just ignore and murder through. Resolve should be 1min CD or something, and demonskin should receive a buff or a rework to be more interesting. Affliction damage could be nerfed if they stop dying instantly as soon as someone farts in their general direction, as it is quite insane how much damage they put out currently. Shamans should get that thing from wod back, where they had a separate wall to use during stuns. Demonology is a joke, they should be completely redesigned. But that's not going to happen.

[@zacle2440]

well ya i think sub is going to be back to a niche pick or just a not to great one. they will still work for sure, especially with like a balance or spriest who can bring the damage. but this nerf seems a bit heavy to me. people were already figuring out how to survive the burst (yes it was to high where you had to hit almost all your defensives) but the opener burst was using every cooldown the rogue had and once those CDs were gone. Subs damage was quite bad until they got everything back. fingers crossed that this doesnt completely obliterate us. I just really hope we dont go back to BFA dampening meta. i enjoy this faster paced meta that we had. it reminds me of MOP/Cata which were the best pvp expacs imo.

[@borges3099]

All they had to do was tweak ER properly instead of literally just making it weaker than shadowstrike lmao

[@MrMazvaz]

The nerf to hunters and the mastery nerf was kind of uncalled for. But Kryian Rogue damage was a problem. A class cannot have 3x 8sec ccs on separate drs and be able to dish out that kind of burst consistently. Imo, rogues should be about insane amounts of utility and tools, not about killing someone in a cheapshot. Regarding heals. I think the solution to this is making it more resource intensive. Having big heals is fine, having an infinite amount of them is not. So increasing manacosts and other resources used is the way to go imo.

[@deLumren]

Rogue: where is my home? QQ I don't wanna go back to Dalaran sewers!

[@attinger117]

I'll stick with kyrian on my pally. Divine toll is still good and I play holy a lot so its still very much worth it

[@ClarixTV]

Sub rogues were a huge issue, only time will tell how these nerfs will affect them but something had to be done. As a mw monk, I’m sure happy they’re getting nerfed, it was way too much unjustified burst

[@Michael_MMA]

Everyone here who commenting that Sub doesn't need nerf is either maining it, or pushing with a Sub partner lol. With shadowblade, coldblood, shadowance, symbol, and kyrian ability, they pretty much kill everything in less than 2 seconds.

[@jasonmendoza2044]

No one is saying they didn’t need a nerf, just that (as the guy who made the video himself explained) it may have been too much, making them unviable in most situations. You do get that that could happen too, right? 😂

[@Michael_MMA]

@@jasonmendoza2044 Nobody can tell until they get a couple games in after the nerf right, as an ilv 190 ww monk, a rogue would 100-0 me in less then 2 seconds, with my fortbrew, karma, dampen harm all up, went through it like nothing, there's no other way around it except to nerf that absurd burst.

[@calen5118]

The fact that blizzard listens to whiny people because they can’t play well enough to outplay an opener with their team or cd’s is stupid asf. How tf do sub rogues kill something with half the burst with very little sustain damage in between the bursts. I don’t wanna come out of stealth to hit like a wet napkin and just be a utility/control class. It defeats the whole purpose of being a rogue. If I wanted to be control and utility I’d play a resto Druid.

[@ttgtzz7813]

you could litteraly just stun people an one shot them out of stealth that was just too op

[@Schwanken]

Yeah deleting people in less than 2 seconds is so broken with leggos and trinket. Sure it may be countarable in some cases but its just wayyy to powerfull

[@bertod6387]

Time to stay 1500 idiot

[@francoisturgeon1176]

i mained rogue for every expansions , and this fucking dmg needed a nerf ...

[@GetDerty]

Changed covenants last week, took 3 days for me to get to renown 9. You're anima doesn't transfer over, but don't be scared! Change now while renown is still low.

[@emllik2155]

Just praying they dont mess up enhancement

[@tcplaya2882]

Enhancement is trash. All of their damage comes from that fuckin covenant ability. They need to nerf the shit out of that and finally just fix enhancement. Make stormstrike actually so some damage.

[@Lost4words]

@@tcplaya2882 y

[@Lost4words]

@@tcplaya2882 what u play

[@tcplaya2882]

@@Lost4words frost dk

[@Lost4words]

@@tcplaya2882 wait for it yall going to get a buff soon i bet

[@veenix101]

Don't think hybrid healing needs a nerf as they have to sarifice their damage whereas dks have great healing with lichborn macro, dhs leech build is insane when it comes to heals, druids have a dot heal, some can heal to full in stealth, theres plenty of classes out there being able to heal themselves without sacrificing damage so I honestly hope they don't touch hybrid healing. Having to sacrifice damage for heals already feels bad enough.

[@TGShunai]

I hope everyone is happy now. Everyone's dmg is going to get nerfed and our HP is going up to 40k when we have ilvl 220, nobody will kill anyone like the damp meta that was the entirety of BfA.

[@yodizx]

u know we will get secondary stats and int/str/agi too right?

[@skyhawk427]

rot comp babe! suck it sub rogue!

[@ritchy3875]

get rekt rogue

[@TGShunai]

@@skyhawk427 tfw im not a sub rogue

[@TGShunai]

@@ritchy3875 tfw im not a sub rogue

[@ZphykTESHD]

1:30 It doesn't really decay slower, still the same speed in relation to its initial value as a side note I fuckgggnngningngg HATE THE SEED, so stupid in arena

[@justinerickson282]

Rip rogues. Hope you all hit 1800

[@Dreleosh]

Lol rogues are in the top comps pretty much every season. They will find a place. Great that they nerfed but I hope this doesn't make sub irrelevant

[@joelobrien6224]

There Is 1 rogue In the 3s top 100 Sit the fuck down you don't have a clue

[@justinerickson282]

@@joelobrien6224 thank you sir

[@Dreleosh]

​Oh you mean the top 0.5% or something? Meanwhile if you look at charts for 2.2k+ rogues are sitting high with 8%, which is about same as warrior and rogues are completely dominating 2v2. Read my comment again. My point still stands. Point me to the latest arena championships where rogue wasn't well represented. YOU sit the fuck down with that attitude.

[@AdamTuxTengler]

I like how our "meaningful choice", that we should not back away from and Blizzard is trying to make it painful for us to do so, gets fucked with on weekly basis. So I am supposed to commit to covenant and never change, otherwise I get punished for it and fall behind the pack and suck. But at the same time balance patches keep coming, invalidating the "meaningful choice" and make me put aside entire character and reroll completely (my ret is on bench now). Good job as usually, I'm not sure why I thought they actually learned anything :D

[@hawktondog]

Love the rage comments from people playing classes that go *stun* *insta kill you*, yall gonna have to learn to play the class past blow all CDs now lmao

[@williampettersson4809]

its not that sub got nerfed its the fact how huge the nerf was. these huge overnefs are not good for the game sens if it happens to all the classes we will go back to bfa damp meta that no one liked. nerfs are never a bad thing but only nerfs and no buffs aswell as these massive nerf are bad they kill specs.

[@peterpeterson3385]

Well this only happens in 2v2 and mostly in low rating. People in higher rating knows how to prevent this from happening. The problem was more about the legendary memory that gives 100% crit chance for 4 sec and bad players that do not know how to handle it.

[@BL4CKSTEEL]

@@peterpeterson3385 exactly, blizzard tuning pvp because some angry 1400 players with the reflexes of a sloth are crying lol.

[@Icicleyo]

When u die 100-0 through dome and rapture/radiance at 23-2400+ by a double rogue in less than 2 seconds wearing 22% vers, and u cant fear coz they both open with cloak, come back and tell me the nerf was not justified. Fkin rival crybabies. Enjoy challenger bracket from now on :)

[@williampettersson4809]

@@Icicleyo lets go back to this comment when this happens to priests. im a dk btw and if you read the comments you will see that i said it needed nerfs but these huge nerfs in one go is never good do small nerfs over a longer time is always what you whant to do and if it still to good you give it more small nerfs. and also the fact that they nerfed one covanent making it way worse so you have to swap and get the penalty if you whant to min max your class.

[@trevorruth3318]

Honestly as a boomkin I’m fine with these nerfs, oath of the elder Druid is a great lego for pvp if boat isn’t good enough and the dampening nerf makes us even stronger in 2v2, our main counter was sub rogue and they got nerfed so now nothing can really fw us

[@borges3099]

Ok but you realize they will probably just nerf your class next right? All this does is start a chain of dampening and ruins the game lmao

[@trevorruth3318]

@@borges3099 that’s possible but they will probably nerf something more glaring like ww or spriest before they nerf boomkin, but I may be wrong. we’ll see

[@shmand]

My ele shammy partner just took a 22k ferocious bite from a feral druid..... Where the shit is that supposed to be normal????

[@Jackaroo.]

Even with these nerfs the meta will still be melee heavy until stats catch up with versa and haste for casters.

[@adc1222]

I got killed in bear form by a mm hunter in literally a second. Just fucking deleted from 100-0 with zero opportunity for counterplay. I know the feel.

[@Philly757]

I don't put much time into PvP. Without the scaling it's less inclusive. Idk if that's good or bad for the game but I'll be staying away. My tank takes damage like a critter. 🤷🏿‍♂️

[@borges3099]

@@Philly757 scaling is dogshit. Tldr. It literally makes all forms of gear chasing pointless.

[@borges3099]

Nerf rogues though KEKW

[@c40blaze76]

Will you be switching kyrian on your ret paladin? If so, which one?

[@jfowhatever]

He said he won't yet.

[@unknownop7144]

Sub got hit harder than their one shot , amen

[@RealMrPropper]

Pshero plays maldraxxus as far as i know :) and he played it even before the nerfs, because it was obvious that the nerf was coming. And I share your concerns, even on lower rating the games were getting longer in the past week as all got used to the bursty meta and I am curious how arena looks like after these nerfs.

[@sweggieboi4928]

Great now the covenant choice I made that was most strongest for my spec gets butchered and I have to switch and get renown all over again. Edit - These people in the replies insisting you choose a worse covenant when Kyrian was strongest by a mile are fucking brain dead. No shit people are going to choose Kyrian. Why would you intentionally want to play at a disadvantage?

[@dyingtolivez89]

oh no u have to have some skill to play your class again how frustrating that must be for you.

[@mathay86]

Just did this last Wednesday and it took minimal effort in a 24 hour window (not playing for 24 hours) to get back to max renown. It will put you a bit behind on your buildings in your covenant and obviously your followers will need to be collected and leveled for your new choice but nothing that actually gives player power is an issue.

[@Philly757]

Literally happens every expansion to people who just pick the strongest class.

[@danlorett2184]

Renown catchup is actually pretty easy - you get your normal 3 renown and if you're still behind then your callings (SL emissaries or w/e, daily covenant quest thing) also give you one renown.

[@brandoncox5257]

if you know it was broken, you shouldve made the smart decision and invested in another covenant so yes , no one feels bad for you. dont play broken shit

[@kolle128]

I have an issue with nerfing convenants. You made a choice and you are punished hard for chaning your covenant. By making changes after you choice they can make you feel regret, tough I don't think many will change over.

[@puberty7548]

Man the game is gonna go to shit if everyone keeps complaining about a whole class instead of a specific ability .

[@Claymore306]

Get rekt rouge

[@Frosfank3034]

@@Claymore306 rogue still gonna be meta, just maybe not sub lol

[@borges3099]

@@Claymore306 literally the ilvl 130 reddit complaining hunter spotted. Found em. Bw-bwizzard, I was o-out doing my w-wurwld quescks nd an rogue kiwld me in a cheep shod. Nerf prz

[@borges3099]

People are indeed braindead

[@judithlough6]

Imo fire mages should have taken night fae anyway. The cdr and the seed are amazing. If we dont kill in the first 15-30 secs im looking to get combust back anyway

[@krash2094]

Hybrid healing is just unfair. At least make them go oom fast from it.

[@Frost2599]

That’s the point of playing a hybrid, you trade damage for utility.

[@Benjamioth7598]

Not when the hybrid heals for 20k. At that point you mayaswell use every global for healing cos it has more value

[@krash2094]

@@Frost2599 First of all the healing is too much. Second of all what do you mean damage they both can easily global people lol.

[@Michaelolivermussi]

Can confirm even post nerf I’m still the best dps in my guild as boomkin 💪

[@dreadkill83]

I feel like I’m paying to be a tester for a game that’s never gunna be finished. They should be paying us to play this garbage so sick of grinding for bis then getting nerfed as I get there. FYI I don’t play rogue

[@borges3099]

I've never bought a wow expansion this is the first one I've tried since classic. This is some eso lookin shit going on right now I'm gonna wait this month out and if the game becomes a spongefest I'm never buying another xpac 👏

[@Da5kone001]

Wait now we are bitching becauee they are actually changing pvp? This is what we have been asking for

[@karlwarda7628]

If all you do is google what is meta to play them, that's gonna happen to you

[@espen116]

Maybe stop maining every flavor of the month class

[@jonb6564]

Well it couldnt have been that difficult one shotting your way up the ladder.

[@drateisttv9666]

awesome no nerfs to shadow priest yet. rogue needed it i went nightfae so now im glad its more inline.

[@P.czubak]

Nerfs need to stop and they need to bring classes up to the top classes. The game felt fun play all theses burst comps. They didn't need nerfing everything just needs a buff

[@Jackaroo.]

It's much easier to nerf 1 or 2 specs than buff 28 others...

[@dood6647]

@@Jackaroo. Then healing needs to be nerfed along dmg nerfs.

[@plutohendrix2941]

right cuz a rogue killing you before you could gather your thoughts is an overall fun experience for every player

[@dood6647]

@@plutohendrix2941 no one is defending the rogue issue. But when you nerf the mastery increase it affects way more classes than sub rogue. Also assassination will just take its place which is performing well.

[@P.czubak]

I agree thats its easier but one thing I think we can all agree on is this new fun fast paced pvp is exciting. So let's not loose that and if that means blizzard pulling there finger out there arse and buffing other classes well do it. There a multimillion dollar company im sure the can appoint that project to someone

[@kylej4929]

Night fae rogue can still get 300+ mastery from Sepsis stacks

[@azuredreams4187]

At this point i honestly wonder who is running pvp developement in Blizzard. I swear by the design of classes,gearing,and just everything regarding pvp,i think they take some intern or janitor and just put him in charge.

[@farquhar0407]

I played sub rogue in BFA (after shadowlands pre patch) and boy am I glad I'm playing a different spec now that shadowlands has started

[@TheGoodenPlenty]

Maybe it will be fun to step into the arena again

[@drew3254]

Fuck man. This is really concerning. We were so close to having potentially one of the best seasons to date, with amazing spec diversity. Im really afraid this is pretty much on the trajectory of bfa again, we got a week of unrefined goodness.

[@xiverz4320]

Rogues were nerfed too hard and some broken covenant abilities are still running rampant

[@bigtaco5695]

eyyy no one likes being globaled while being giga cc'd, now u just have insane cc with ok dmg, back 2 3s only.

[@SavageRandy86]

its just the start i feel many more changes will come in the near future. people complain way to much just give it time with the other covenants

[@Bisquan]

Yeah, blizz nerfing sub rogues because they are afraid of fast paced fights. Well without restealth we have 6 seconds or our target will cc us, go completely immune, or heal back up to 100%. Which in arenas they even screw us with that too.