Shame Retribution Trauma and Borderline Personality

[@valeria3070]

As someone diagnosed with BPD, to me it feels like when you were a child, and your parents forgot to pick you up from school, and you are sitting there, anxious, feeling unsafe, and empty, and your heart goes up and down when you noticed the car driving by it’s not your parents’ car. It’s a perpetual wait for someone to come and rescue you, to make you feel as if you are enough, maybe loveable. It feels like a massive hole in my chest that can’t close, and all I want is not to feel this broken.

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

You're definitely not broken, although many with similar traumas feel that way because that's the way you were treated. You deserve relationships that make you feel otherwise.

[@OhaiTurtle]

This is such a good description, I feel like this description would make BPD much more understandeable for people who don't have it.

[@valeria3070]

@@PsychologyInSeattle thank you Dr Honda, your comment means a lot me.

[@valeria3070]

@@OhaiTurtle Thank you! It’s always so hard to explain it to people.

[@Kristen10-22]

Agree however unable to be vulnerable enough to trust

[@NellieWindmillArt]

All of my favourite episodes are Bob episodes and this is my favourite Bob episode.

[@melissachinnici]

I love when Bob comes on. I really feel like i am not alone in my own shame and the negative feelings I feel towards my parents

[@sarahcouture24]

Same here

[@jrenae92]

This was an interesting video. It made me think of the ways I would explain the behaviors of a close relative with BPD to my 4 year old brother. The best I came up with was this - You and I can usually control how we feel like a volume dial on the car radio. If the music (how we feel inside) is too loud, we can turn it down. If it’s too low, we can turn it up. Insert close relative here isn’t able to do that. So when the music aka feelings are at a volume that they don’t like, they don’t know how to adjust it the right way to make themselves feel better. Think of how you feel when you’re sick and mommy hasn’t given you medicine yet. It sucks and there’s nothing you can do about in the moment.

[@bryanbytes]

Wish we could hear more about Bob’s mother and her behaviors. I’m sure it’s triggering for him. It’s helpful and healing to hear and to compare with similar experiences in our own lives. Thank you

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Yeah, I think he's slowly feeling more comfortable discussing this.

[@pebblebrookbooks4852]

Ok I get it my mom has weird reactions like that too I can really relate

[@Wandering_Nowhere]

Absolutely love Bob. Calming and very insightful too.

[@jesamienoodles8918]

I love the idea of a therapist being extremely sure and reassuring repeatedly about promising to never terminate, however, as someone who has lived a normal life of curveballs and ups and downs that I could not have anticipated, I feel unable to offer this promise. It's making me wonder if there's a way that I can provide a corrective experience while accounting for the unpredictability of life. In fact, I have had to close my practice unexpectedly and against my will. It was horrible! This is also making me think about what level of abuse can be tolerated in a therapeutic relationship by the client before termination becomes necessary. Good food for thought and an excellent episode! Thank you!!!

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Yeah, I get that. Corrective experiences can be short-term or long-term. I know you've already provided many clients with corrective experiences, even if it was shorter-term or even somewhat abruptly ended.

[@veronicababy7959]

My therapist told me that she had no plans to leave. This helped me trust her more because I knew if something happened and she did leave it wasn’t her intent. I later used this with my own clients.

[@OhaiTurtle]

Wow, this is so interesting. My mother behaved the way Bob describes on a daily basis, like 10 times a day. She still does, but I barely speak to her. Though I cannot remember all those little incidents. I only know the feeling, that feeling got triggered whilst listening to this. I do remember very clearly when I was around 14 years old, that I made an agreement to myself never to trust her and never to expect anything from her. I think what saved me is that she was away from home for work for days in a row very often, so I needed to think indepent from a young age in order to survive. So I built the confidence overtime that I could easily survive without her. My dad was not in the picture. It's confronting to hear this example, because it seems so small, but it's huge, especially if things like that are repeated daily. It is such a challenge to build safe relationships with people when your parents were/are emotionally abusive. Though it's definitely possible, I think it just takes a lot of patience with yourself as well as self-compassion. It also helps to find a community, preferably several, like a support group that you meet up with on a weekly basis. It just takes a lot of burden of your shoulders, especially if you don't have a family support system. This is very important I think. I send love to everyone who suffered from emotional abusive parents, you're not alone!

[@FrankRogers-n6v]

Listening to parts of this episode breaks my heart, I can see one of my family members possibly having borderline. And I can see how their child gets treated and becomes the main soothing method for the adult. It looks so unhealthy when it happens, but the child only knows that kind of love, conditional on how much the child reflects the parent.

[@skleroosis]

Bob sounds wonderful and I'm glad he has good people in his life

[@ShipFantastic]

I have never related more to what he's describing. Shame-retribution is so accurate to what I feel. I also relate to quiet bpd. But his description hit me right in the heart.

[@haileyoslund]

33:24 I know exactly what you’re saying here Bob. Although my mom is not to this extreme, there are times when she gets offended that someone withholds information from her yet she doesn’t seem to understand that requesting vulnerability from others requires the listener to be gentle and understanding, not demanding.

[@mikhaelahhh]

Yay! Bob episode, AND it’s about shame trauma I’m readyyyyy

[@effiemav7597]

Im only half way through, but I know ill be doing multiple listens of this one. Couldnt imagine having a therapist whod say they wouldnt putposely leave, what thatd do for my shame/defectiveness. Bob i totally relate, i am still not eating the sandwich, its given me alot to think about. Thank you for being open Bob, we love you, Kirk youre wonderful too.

[@Kathyyyyy123]

Thank you for sharing Bob! ❤

[@dilaudum1075]

Yeay Bob! He's so great

[@mikhaelahhh]

I love Bob so much. Makes my day every time he cohosts.

[@cynthiaselene1496]

I love this channel Thank you for bringing so much awareness and understanding to these issues ❤

[@LilPotatoz]

Thank you very very much for sharing, Bob.

[@lannaintajak80]

"I am Bob, and Bob is me", is what I find myself saying. Though I am not there yet....

[@triciat2855]

I feel like I need to stop listening to these videos; not because I don't value the content; I do! but because of the constant reminder that I need but cannot afford therapy. Every time he says "get a therapist" I feel like a loser because that is not possible for me. And please don't patronize me and tell me that there "free services"; I've tried them and they are shit- completely substandard and I have been harmed by bad "free" therapy.

[@akirashiori6265]

In my opinion these therapy videos do help me recognize my issues and provide some amount of self soothing. The more you understand yourself the better you can make your own solutions. It's definitely not perfect, but if it helps you even just a little bit, that's crucial to your journey to recover, or even survival. I'd rather listen to this or Dr. K or any of the variety of therapist on KZbin and feel heard and validated, than feel completely isolated, but that's just me. You know your own situation better and your triggers

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

I would never patronize people for experiencing the factual lack of affordable services. It's a crime that our society doesn't value well-being and recovery.

[@jjmsf]

i learned i have borderline and i now just have a label for my crazy

[@RosyFdz]

I didn’t realize that 2:01 about the DSM, I wonder if the ICD-11 is similar in that way

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Yes, very similar.

[@MsJenButler]

Bob's egg salad story made me so sad. I think if this were me I would have forced myself to eat the sandwich because I would've gotten in really big trouble if I did NOT eat it. And choking it down it would've tasted like ashes in my mouth.

[@jessk457]

Though I don't identify with the word retribution, I can relate to not eating the egg toast. I would feel like I don't deserve the nice or even normal thing. Particularly with food because guilt/shame makes you lose your appetite. (Editted to fix the dodgy english)

[@Zwantceeto]

Thank you for saying it's not an emotional regulation disorder, this is very obvious to us people wBPD but not for the layman. The fatigue is real. The pain and inability to have healthy relationships is tiring. I hate Linehan and her "3rd degree burn victims" comparison. Her methods are despicable.

[@tuszajnojneeg0052]

Wow. Listening to Bob's story about his mom screaming at him really made me think about my own childhood. At times I still question whether it was abused or if I was just off with my perspectives. Not to top his story or invalidate it any way, but I have worst stories about how my mother reacted when she was mad at me. There was one time where she went from 0 to 60, got up.from the chair she was sitting in, threaten to beat the shit out of me, then proceeded to chase me up stairs with a broom. I don't recall how it ended. Whether I took the beating or not after coming out from hiding, but I lived in fear of her anger at times. She was highly unpredictable. Other times, before I knew it, I'd get slapped on the face with no warning. Let me tell you. I stopped talking back.

[@doctorevil26]

sometime around 57:00 Kirk goes on a several minutes long listing of all of my symptoms lmao

[@pebblebrookbooks4852]

Personality disorders are fairly intractable by definition, right? Maybe we listeners gravitate towards amateur diagnoses of personality disorders bc we are so frustrated with tryna work it out with them?

[@nihalhathaway4089]

I'm sorry but I don't agree with one part of what you're saying - and I think many people including psychologists would agree with me. Growing up with a BPD parent is not at all secure, since they are not capable of giving the child security nor emotional stability nor a healthy emotional and trustful relationship. In the contrary, children of BPD parents often have themselves traumas from their childhood or even develop BPD themselves. Also, maybe the BPD parent is good towards small children, but not towards adolescent children that have their own minds already. And I agree with ashley, as children of parents with BPD the empathy towards US is really lacking in the media, that constantly only talks about the parent itsself.

[@partialartsblackbelt8384]

Thank you

[@Kristen10-22]

I have blk/white not so much in the gray. Nope not tired .. I’m more triggered by an emotion. If some around me need me I’m happy.

[@Marian-lx6ow]

Does everyone have schemas?

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Yes, everyone has some schemas to some degree.

[@aminotachameleon3095]

wow.. so what was a daily occurrence in my house was not ok? 😂 and here I’ve been wondering why I have pd traits even though I wasnt abused (physically).. im not just weak, sensitive, spoiled?

[@Andrea-xj9bk]

I mean, if this description of borderline were true, then patients on low-dose, long-term cortisone therapy would increasingly suffer from borderline symptoms.

[@pebblebrookbooks4852]

🙋🏻‍♀️I think I have this....

[@merryl55]

I REALLY ENJOY YOUR PROGRAM, BUT I WOULD PREFER ONE PERSON TALKING, NOT TWO. (CAN YOU DO THAT?)

[@feelingscheck405]

You 2 are the best. You both always make me feel so safe, seen & validated. And you guys don’t even know me! 😂 🫶🏼