Self Hatred, Therapist Abandonment, and Professor Boundaries

[@sorrelbee113]

For the client who felt abandoned by her therapist- I've felt abandoned by a mental health clinician as well. I have BPD and I do experience a lot of rejection sensitivity, so I definitely perceived rejection and responded to it with emotions that were difficult to navigate. What helped me was to remind myself that it wasn't about *me.* My clinician made what she decided was the best choice for herself and her practice, and that had an effect for me, but it wasn't *about* or *because of* me. She wasn't *reacting* to me and it didn't necessarily indicate anything about her feelings about me. I felt kicked to the curb, too, but I wasn't really. It helped me to remember that her decision was about herself and her practice, not about me. And if, as I feared, it *was* about me? Then that sucks, but ultimately I cannot control the way other people feel about me and I have to accept that and learn to deal with the emotions I may have about it.

[@helen.k]

I love how you answered the first question about self-hatred.

[@AurorasWindow]

I do talk to my therapist while doing EMDR. We don’t necessarily talk about the trauma itself but about what I’m “seeing”. For me, as a visual thinker, the eye movement allows me to see different images in my brain that are related to my trauma. It’s not necessarily the trauma itself, but an image of the feeling relating to the trauma. So after each eye movement period, my therapist asks me to describe what I’m seeing. While I describe my image, the therapy really happens. I then realize what the image means and how it’s connected. Sometimes the connection doesn’t happens until the end of the session. But it always come to me. So there is actual processing of the trauma, it’s just that you don’t have to talk about the traumatic event per se

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

[@MellyCmee]

“Once bitten and twice shy.” Wham-Last Christmas😂

[@cynthiapetro8708]

The first woman you talked about, sounds more like she hates life as a human being, not necessarily herself (her soul). Like you said, her brain cannot perceive good things, perhaps even the sensations coming from her body are not comfortable. I feel the same. I've been on antideppressants for over 30 years. They cannot change my brain structure to "like" living on this planet doing what I consider meaningless. My spirit longs to be off in the cosmos free from a body I have to take care of. Antidepressants help me to function, take care of my body and work to meet the needs of others (wife, mother, employee), but they cannot help me experience joy. It's also hard because I'm an empath. I "hear" or sense the negative thoughts of the people around me (hard to know if these thoughts belong to me or someone else). I can't wait to move on.

[@cynthiapetro8708]

Thank you for your compassion. I guess I should have left some background to explain my "odd" comment. I have a B.S. in Psycholgy/Child Development. I believe in the Christian God/salvation. I believe in reincarnation and that other "Lifeforms" exist on other planets. I have many symptoms and conditions: emotional neglect, childhood trauma, 3 generations of narcissistic abuse, ADHD. I am a highly sensitive person and an empath, call it what you will it is the only word we currently have that describes my experience (being psychically immersed in the emotions?? energy?? frequency?? that projects out of the people around you. But autism does explain my collection of oddities. I'm sorry Doctor, but I must call you out for implying my experience is not valid because it's not a term clicians use. And it hurt that you said I don't have magic. My soul has magic, every soul has magic. And that's why I don't trust therapist. @@mjmartn

[@imhottequilabrown]

​@@mjmartn Well said.

[@Alayhoo]

My background is in gender, sexuality and ethnic studies, and social justice theory and praxis is woven into the foundation of those fields. I get what you’re saying regarding therapists “deserve to pay their bills” and “it’s not your fault…” I agree with you to a great extent. At the same time, this is the system we have. It is what it is. Does it really matter whose fault it is if changing the system is not within your control? What is in our control are the ways we can increase access to services. Is it inconvenient for therapists in private practice to take insurance? Yes. Does not taking insurance limit the pool of clients to folks whose social location ascribes them the most social privilege? Yes. Enacting principles of social justice involves asking who benefits from a decision or action. If the answer is folks occupying social identities in dominant groups benefit the most, we ask in what ways could this choice/action reproduce institutionalized oppression, and/or in what ways would it prevent folks in target groups from becoming further marginalized? Who benefits most? Dedication to social justice is about sacrificing the conveniences our unearned privileges give us. It is about radically accepting what is and doing what is within our control. The Black feminist scholar Audre Lorde said it best: “I am not free while any woman is unfree, even when her shackles are very different from my own. And I am not free as long as one person of colour remains chained. Nor is any one of you.” (Source: “Uses of Anger: Women Responding to Racism” by Audre Lorde). I get what you’re saying about it not being your fault and deserving to pay your bills. But I also don’t get it. I don’t get how that absolves you or your colleagues of the social responsibility to serve those at the margins through your therapy practice by doing what you can to increase access. You are undoubtedly an amazingly gifted therapist, professor and human being. I see your platform on YT as scholarship in action through education that furthers social justice political movement and I know you’ve done your time at community agencies. For us younger generations who can’t even trust we’ll be alive in 30 years due to climate change, or know with certainty we’ll be able to own a home or collect social security if we even get to retire, we’re already the sacrificial lambs of the generations before us. We are used to being inconvenienced and having to sacrifice big comforts our parents never did. I think that’s a huge part of this your generation doesn’t understand. Our collective futures are at risk on this planet. Under those circumstances, self-sacrifice is the honorable decision to make if we’ll all potentially die in the dust bowl NASA predicts we’re headed to. Our dream is to live. So you bet your ass we youngens are willing to sacrifice ourselves in the service of a future we can only hope and dedicate ourselves to making a reality.

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

I agree. I guess we all have to figure out the balance between justice and paying our bills. We do this all the time - like when we buy Starbucks instead of giving to charities. But ultimately, if the system is broken (and voters and law makers don't care), then why should we have to carry that burden?

[@Alayhoo]

@@PsychologyInSeattle You're right, you shouldn't have to, and no, it's not fair. That's life, right? I don't mean to sound dismissive, but isn't that just the unfortunate truth of being human? It's not fair that we are born into systems already constructed for us and ready to slot us in so the socialization process can begin, whether that's here in the U.S. or anywhere in the world. It's not fair to me as a queer woman that you were born a straight man and therefore have the social privilege that comes along with it. It's not fair that I was born white and you were born a person of color and therefore don't have the white privilege I do. You and myself included had the privilege to become highly educated and we (let's be real, you way more than me) possess the intellectual capacity to understand we are part of these social systems, understand that we have unearned privilege and to quote Spider Man, "With great power comes great responsibility." And I'm an elder millennial so I mean Toby McGuire Spider Man. As I said though, I maintain you've done your time and your current platform is a form of social justice activism, hands down. Your subscriber rate has grown so much since I first joined. You have the privilege to influence so many hearts and minds, it's phenomenal! (And holy sh*t, thank the multiverse it's you and all your amazingness with equally amazing colleagues.) You all give me hope for humanity. Seriously. I wasn't intending to criticize you before. I recognize that my opinion about all this is also a reflection of my own schemas and neurotype. Balance has never been easy for me. I get intense and obsessed. It's an autistic thing. I'll be going back to school to become a therapist, and I like the students you've talked about get so confused about how to feel regarding money, worrying I''' be profiting off of peoples suffering, and feeling like I must only do community mental health work even if it's not where my true passion lies. When I reason with myself and say it's not my burden, my thoughts say: What about the way frontline medical staff were called to put their lives at risk for folks dying of a mysterious virus. They sacrificed their lives. Why should I be absolved of that same responsibility? Ugh. See what I mean when I say I can be intense? CAN YOU TELL I'M PRONE TO EXESTENTIAL CRISES AND OFTEN FEEL GUILTY FOR BEING ALIVE? 😂😂 At least I can laugh at myself about it now. I grew up in a Mormon bubble. College was like nightmare fuel for my existential dread, but it also gave me the idealism I must maintain if I am to survive. Plus meds and therapy twice a week. (This comment is too long, I know!!! I'm sorry! You can judge me!)

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

I'm with you! I agree. It's a struggle. I'm glad you're out there fighting the good fight.

[@erikavaleries]

I loved that song, Once Bitten Twice Shy 😂 I remember dancing to it in my room with my 80’s perm & taping it off the radio!

[@edbrown5956]

My insurance had a lost of covered therapist and I only got a call back from maybe 40% of them. I then used better help where at least I had a face to go with it and a bit of background right there. The return rate was better. I wasn't in a horrible crisis when calling (thank God nj) though it still gave me a better outlook. I had hope where before reaching out I had no hope of getting help. Funny how it works but sometimes all people need is a bit of hope to hold them off from going into the "deep."

[@edbrown5956]

It doesn't get enough attention being a bit newer but Brain Spotting can also help like EMDR. It's faster than EMDR but still uses the eye movement and music. You don't need to talk about it but you can. Usually talking about it helps me more keep in point and my T doesn't mind. They just don't usually respond while doing it as to not break my processing. Good stuff highly recommend. Not for everyone but another option!

[@Totallyfine29_]

listening from Kuwait 👋

[@SamD.6445]

Sometimes insurance companies will suddenly and drastically change the terms that they contract therapists with and a therapist has to make a rather abrupt decision to leave a panel because said terms are unacceptable. Clients are on the receiving end of terrible policies from insurance all the time, without necessarily realizing it. As Americans we are being SO screwed over by our for-profit health system in millions of ways.

[@sundog5143]

It sounds like if you get "bitten" once when participating in something then you will remember and for at least the next two times you will be "shy" to participate in that again. 🤷

[@kevillew]

Re: self hatred, I would endorse Bob’s approach for both the writer and their therapist to be more curious and self compassionate about the self hatred instead of “fighting” it with CBT, self esteem, etc. I found the “Hated Child” chapter in Steven Johnson’s book Character Styles helpful in better understanding and addressing my feelings of self hate and annihilation. Steven Kessler offers a similar description in his discussion of “The Leaving Pattern” in his book The 5 Personality Patterns. Kurt’s tangent on borderline clients in therapy did not seem helpful.

[@danamoss2730]

My professor said that a newly graduated therapist going to a group private practice (still supervised) is unethical 🥰 such a guilt trip and so ridiculous. I have a degree. I deserve to be paid adequately.

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

My god. Ugh. I've heard that too. Awful. Easy for them to say - they're probably getting paid well.

[@Nightswim_]

@@PsychologyInSeattleexcept when you get re - traumatized by a newly graduated therapist who then claims to be inexperienced onced you’ve dumped your issues and gotten attached to them

[@SomeoneBeginingWithI]

I would only call something traumadumping if it's nonconsensual. That can happen on the internet where people get messages from strangers about trauma that they're not expecting and not equipped to handle. I think sometimes traumadumping happens by accident, if you're very hut, you might intend to share a small portion of your story that feels relevant but you're not able to control how much you share and end up saying way more than you intended. It can also be done on purpose out of a desperation to share, and it probably does feel somewhat relieving to the person who shares, but it can still be hurtful to others around them. Kirk's clients and his friends aren't traumadumping because that's a consensual interaction. They know that Kirk is okay with it, and Kirk is okay with it. The university students is a grey area because they probably honestly believe that this is appropriate behaviour, the university has lead them to do this and they might be expecting the professor to help them process what they're feeling, but the professor isn't equipped to do that. There may also be some accidental traumadumping from people who mean to ask for accommodations and explain why, but they're not sure how much explanation is necessary and end up sharing more detail than they should.

[@laulau194]

Well, Bob got closer than Kirk to the UK pronunciation of Gloucester.

[@ExtraordinaryMachine333]

Isn't it "Gloss-ter"? That's how I've heard it, but I'm not 100% sure I'm correct

[@laulau194]

@@ExtraordinaryMachine333 Yep, that's it.