Shané Testimony (ex head evangelist)

This is a testimony of an ex head evangelist.
She shares her experience as an evangelist in South Africa and New Zealand over the 7 years she spent in SCJ.
She refers to the Crash Course Navigating Digital Information ( • Crash Course Navigatin... ) that helped her change her way of thinking.
If you have any questions for her, you can email [e-mail] or post your questions in the comments below.
The views expressed in this video is her own and doesn't neccesarily represent the views of other people, groups or organizations.

[@Melissa-my4jw]

I was in the class and now finding out about the promise pastor and one time I know something is wrong so I left. Jesus said I am the only way no one comes to the Father except through me. No other man

[@rajvadivel8967]

I am extremely thankful for your video.. I am an ex-scj member from Germany! I am still struggling with my faith!

[@SCJSkeptic]

All the best man 🥰✌ I used these questions as a framework to rediscover the world: ① Reality - what is truth and the best way to acquire knowledge? ② Meaning - where do I come from (origin), why am I here (purpose) and where am I going (destiny)? ③ Identity - who am I? ④ Ethics - how should I live? ⑤ Mystery - what if it’s all a lie?

[@mildredpierce4506]

As a Christian, we should not be ruled by feelings. Of course we have feelings but that should not be the indicator for anything spiritual because Satan will make sure you have feelings and it will be the wrong ones. I am glad you got out of that cult. I got out after about a year and a half. In fact I just left on December 22, 2023. I just sent a short text to the teachers assistant and just said I would no longer be attending the Bible study. I wished her a merry Christmas and a happy new year and a prosperous future. Over the next few days I dumped all my notes and I removed all of the teachers from my phone contact. I made a clean break just like they want us to do with our churches.

[@aprilarlidge2807]

Was it an online Bible study? I am taking a 10 month free zoom theology course. Trying to figure out if it is this.

[@SoulsOfCinder]

@@aprilarlidge2807the cult disguises itself as a bible study so it most likely it. if they make you feel guilty even indirectly for not attending bible study then it definitely is.

[@narolinreyes1378]

Yes, what you’re participating in is SCJ. Please beware this is a cult.

[@leomilemofutsanyana9507]

💔😭💔😭 I cannot believe my eyes and ears. I am trying soo hard not to pass judgment because from what you have said you were a victim in as much as I was but the fact that you were one of my teachers/leaders breaks my heart soo much. A lot of my group members were young, eager and energetic. We cried, we prayed wholeheartedly and listened intently. We loved God and the word, and were very excited to be closer to him. SCJ promised that and the leaders drove the point home. Choosing to leave is difficult and tormenting... No one wants to be neglectful towards something they deeply value. I pray that this channel is doing more to help people see the truth... Especially the youth actively recruited.

[@gailmokwatlo]

I believe I was nearly recruited 4 times in Claremont Cape Town. I cannot believe the hand of God over my life- during the darkest pit of my life where I was all alone and depressed in a new city- away from everything I know and everyone who loved me. I work and study and so even when I was recruited- I never had time to attend. I yearned to feel God’s presence and truly thought it must be divine intervention but it just never clicked. I’m so thankful

[@matthewminter6874]

Thanks for your story! Well, done on getting out. One of the saddest parts of SCJ is They use victims to recruit more victims in a perpetual cycle.

[@kazbaby261]

I hate the glorification of sleep Deprivation in SCJ why is it an an accomplishment to sleep only 3-5 hours a night every single day 7 days a week it’s not healthy

[@mildredpierce4506]

Sleep deprivation is common with cukts

[@queenofnowhere4896]

Stumbled across this tonight and can I just say its so heartening to see this video exists. I've been out of SCJ for a while now and was from the NZ branch. Whenever I hear someone has got free of that toxic place It makes me so happy. Shane was actually my review teacher, and I know how much you have to dedicate to get to where she was, I was on my way there as well, and to see that she left I'm so happy. I agree my life is 1000x better after leaving; SCJ really does try to scare you with the betrayal evil demon bullshit but my life now and who I am as a person is infinitely better. I hated who I became when I was in SCJ, what SCJ tried to make me become, I also can relate a lot to what Shane was saying about how they treat female members. Maybe I'll share my story someday as well, I look back and think man that was literally insane, we were really guzzling from the Kool aid. Thanks for sharing Shane! So glad you're out living your best life 😘

[@SCJSkeptic]

Thank you for your kind message ❤ Carpe Diem! 🥰

[@kazbaby261]

If you don’t mind sharing, how do you feel now about salvation? Or what allowed you to not be afraid of losing eternal life? I’ve had terrible experiences in SCJ even knowing my close friend was physically abused but feel I genuinely cannot deny the word somos one told me that just because corrupt things happen from a corrupt person does not mean this is still not heaven. My main issue is I’ve never here heard the word so clearly like this I’ve been in 5 years now and obviously have doubt but I do believe in the word. It’s complex. The only reason I’m here like most ppl say is he’s of the word and my hopefulness for a peaceful world and eternal life to be restored. I feel if this is not true I won’t know what to believe but I will always believe in God.

[@cailou5075]

Thank you so much for making this video. Truly thank you 🙏🙏🙏

[@joejesus9902]

When I was a center student I felt that my instructor was somewhat flirtatious with me. She would often grab my hand, get very close to me and tell me I’m handsome. I just chalked it up to “love bombing” to make the recruit feel welcome but it did seem odd seeing this behavior from an instructor

[@KwambiPrincess]

Dark psychology at work is what SCJ is all about and I don't blame you for doing what you did, alot of people in there do not see how deep it is because what they watch,read and hear about SCJ is only from SCJ people. The minute they watch,read and hear something about SCJ from a person that has a different view they realize 1.How the notion of systematic control has worked and how they had been mentally or psychological affected, 2. How they have either given up on their own lives to be happy in God but forgetting that God would want your physical being to be well and if you are not well mentally then your physical being suffers and that's really a truly a public health issue . Church is suppose to be place where one's mind is at peace not used for people's gain.In my view the entire set up is like tying a carrot string on a stick and dangling it over the donkey thing is donkey will walk and circle around in hopes to eat the carrot in the mean time you continue with your work. The art of Dark psychology is deep and in this case it's deeply rooted in SCJ.

[@KwambiPrincess]

Thank you for sharing your experience,maybe one day I'll have the strength to share my own story because mine is a story of manipulation, betrayal and coersion.

[@shane4473]

Thank you for your comment. It's up to you if you want to share your story, also perfectly ok to just move on. I felt I have to share what I went through and what I did to close this chapter in my life. Hopefully one day at least one of my students will have the courage to watch this video and one life can be fixed 🤞 I agree that the psychological process is what gets and keeps you in SCJ. I just didn't realize it while I was doing it myself, because I believed it was the work of spirit.

[@cailou5075]

@@KwambiPrincess Pls do

[@yared5361]

Me hicieron tanto daño que a día de hoy no he vuelto a recuperar mi relación con Dios lo que más amaba me llamaban hasta en el trabajo era algo brutal ellos veían que estaba ahogado y pretendían que elijiera y me insinuaron dejar mi relación de 10 años que les mintiera a mi familia y mi relación que estaba dado otro curso algo que realmente era una locura yo no sé a día de hoy con lo fuerte que me considero mentalmente cómo llegaron a ese extremo un día comienzo a ver vídeo y hacerle preguntas y comenzaron a la defensiva le decía que la verdad nos haría libre y yo cada vez me sentia más oprimido para todo tenían un versículo figurado a su manera de ver algo brutal llegó un día que me revele en medio de un conferencia por zoom fue algo que no tiene nombre es brutal

[@swoosh3684]

Hi Shane' we were in the same church together and I get what you are saying. I left the church in my heart but my name is still in the "book" because I am more concerned about the wellbeing of my family in the church. I'm trying to get them out but I want to be strategic about it. I am so glad you shared your story especially about the promotional videos because I thought the same thing but I just needed proof. I wish to help others get out of the church. Ever since I left my life has been 1000 times better, I found love and will be getting married soon, I have a the job of my dreams and life in general is just so much better. Looking back I can say with conviction that the place is toxic and really bad because of how they teach people to deceive others. I taught 1 person and maintained one but after teaching I decided in my heart that I would no longer help the church. I stopped evangelising and participating and I enrolled in university so that I could have an excuse to not come in everyday. I was in a specific department for some time and it was the worst experience of my life. It was really bad and it was the line in the sand for me. They still come to my house to try and bring me back but I just look at them and feel this sense of pity. So many potentials wasted in that church. I only stayed there for 3 years but I am glad I left sooner than later. Thank you for sharing your story, I was listening to this while I was working.

[@marcelaarrivillaga8985]

Just left the church In Guatemala. It took me long to accept it.

[@yennefer1196]

Thank you for sharing your experience. I left scj too. I was also there for a few years. A friend of mine who also left shared me this video. ❤

[@cherry___pie]

I left Scj France yesterday 🙏🏾

[@jessicanhlapo9339]

Many people lost themselves in the organization. I too will share my experiences one day. What I endured in the South African branch. You were not allowed to see or speak to the "head" of the church if you had "burning" issues. When I think about my experiences I thank God that I continued to fight for my faith in him.

[@saasa3146]

What is burning issue?

[@thobanitytus9898]

I was there for 4 years working at the Media Department. One day I’ll share my story 🙏🏻

[@SCJSkeptic]

That would be great! 😁

[@swoosh3684]

Me too! Culture Department was the worst.

[@stya4407]

Iˋve been there too! Glad and thankful to God for showing me the truth and for allowing me and my sister come out of that evil organization!

[@Cherry-to7mi]

7 years in scj🤯 how is it possible? I hardly stayed there about 8 months 🥺

[@SCJSkeptic]

We were sincerely convinced that it's the truth. However, we were sincerely mistaken 😔. I was rather happy in SCJ most of the time. Perhaps a reason for this is because I had the highest position in my region.

[@tumichick]

Thank you so much for sharing this. I left SCJ about a year ago now and I am still struggling to find my identity in Christ. I really felt guilty about leaving but the responsibilities that were being thrust my way were too difficult for me to bare and my breaking point was feeling betrayed by the person who was tasked with "overseeing" my growth. I had a feeling she had been through the process before and when it was revealed, I felt really betrayed. I stayed on another 8 months after joining Temple but I was branded as a problem child. I always questioned Everything that we were doing and eventually, I had the courage to leave. What helped is that I left CPT to move to JHB and so that transition assisted me to slowly detach. The sad part is that I haven't been able to rekindle my relationship with God; I feel very detached from him and still wonder if I did the right thing in leaving. That just speaks to how well they work to brainwash you.

[@kathia7236]

Please don't give up. U did a right thing to leave. It's okay.. It might need time to rekindle your relationship with God. But He is not mad at you. Father is waiting for His children to go back. Build your relationship with God again. Brick by brick, one step at a time. Jesus Christ will guide u. Holy Spirit will guide u. And u'll experience His love all over again. Pray for u. 💜🙏🏻

[@SCJSkeptic]

Yeah it helps to study some critical thinking as well as the psychology of high control groups. thinkingispower.com/foundations-in-critical-thinking/

[@Joedidelijo]

Thank you for your story. I hope to hear more about your time in SCJ to help other people get out there and see what kind of organization SCJ really is. I am happy to hear, that you were able to find a partner and a job in the world outside of SCJ. All the best for you.

[@SCJSkeptic]

Hi Joe Thanks for the kind comment. There is much more to come :)

[@shane4473]

Thanks for your nice comment. Yes, will be sharing more soon.

[@timall4her207]

Thank you for sharing your Testimony. I hope I'll be able to share mine too in the coming future. I was there for 2 years, i left this year.

[@SCJSkeptic]

That would be great!

[@shane4473]

Fantastic!

[@mahle_majola]

Thank you for sharing this story. I also left about a year ago. One of the questions I get a lot is what do you believe in now? Would love to know from Jane or any other person who has shared their story. Thanks again for sharing these videos help a lot of people

[@SCJSkeptic]

Hi Mahle 👋 Thanks for the comment 😁 For myself, I currently identify as an agnostic atheist. Agnostic refers to knowledge while atheist refers to belief. I lack a belief in the supernatural because I don't think there is sufficient knowledge available to justify belief. Simply stated, I don't believe because I don't know whether the supernatural exists or not. Note that sufficiency is subjective to some extent. This is my tentative conclusion. I am a secular humanist who values human well being and science. My beliefs are all naturalistic.

[@nombulelomalinga8410]

Wonders never cease in SCJ. Very scandalous and manipulative organization... thank you for sharing your story ❤

[@shane4473]

❤

[@MrTTAngel]

I am a student of SCJ but some alerts came to my mind, despite I wrote the test and got a review today of this test and controlling. Marking seals and making a photos of every lessons makes me feel strange.

[@MrTTAngel]

I Will wrote a test today because of "tagging" by SCJ terms. Did you wrote it before? I dont want to tagg, because it act to me strange. Lector told me: "You don't write it for people, you write it for God. And it must be correct verb to verb.

[@MrTTAngel]

I am still in SCJ, but today I want to go out from it.

[@stacymund]

@@MrTTAngel any updates

[@atruthseekerwords1941]

🥰😁👍🏼so happy she's out.

[@jessicaxentsa2249]

Hi ♥️ I would love to feature your video on my channel! Can I please get the permission to do so ?

[@SCJSkeptic]

Hi Jessica Thank you for your comment. Shane' said she is fine with you featuring her video on your channel. Thanks for the support.

[@swoosh3684]

Hey Jessica I just left the church too. I sent them a message and to never contact me again haha.

[@Cherry-to7mi]

My evangelist used a methods:"carrot and stick". She was flattering to me that I am a unique and I will stay for eternity young and beautiful 😂Later that she compared me with pharisees and said that I am full of demons😈 She cryed and said that relly loved me and want to save.. she said that I am excess proud and I cant get in the Paradise.

[@boni2197]

I think I'm going crazy I've been watching your videos countless times everyday. I keep on going back to little bird and Chris. It's hard for me to face reality, I don't know anymore.

[@SCJSkeptic]

Hello there 😁 Yes it is rather uncomfortable to accept reality as it actually is. It's okay to be afraid. Just don't let that fear control your behavior. Surround yourself with good people that can support you during this time. People who can accept you for who you are and help you to become the best version of yourself. Do what is right for you and your future. It's not going to be easy, but it will be worth it. I wish you the best ❤

[@boni2197]

@@SCJSkeptic thank you

[@stacymund]

Same here I've been watching Scj videos since 6pm now it's 12😢 I've never been this confused

[@SCJSkeptic]

I would suggest you try to speak to someone about it. This is a very uncomfortable process. All the best 🥰🙏

[@stacymund]

@@SCJSkeptic thanks, I just had the hardest call of my life but I'm no longer there and I have been talking with an ex student who was part of my class. I feel like something is off my chest:)

[@marinalina6348]

Are you in nz? Is Laurie? Do you know about the Decult conference coming up?

[@SCJSkeptic]

Both Shane' and I (Laurie) are from South Africa. I didn't know about that conference.

[@marinalina6348]

@@SCJSkeptic yes it's the first conference about cults here ever. They will be including SCJ as one of the topics, or at least one of the facilitators/speakers, mainly focused on Gloriavale and exclusive brethren etc. The Korean cults are in full swing under the radar here and sadly awareness is just starting to spread because they've had a good 10 years on us and infiltrate other churches without them knowing.

[@edisonnavos1338]

Hi there. Thank you for sharing. May I know what are the questions that you have before leaving SCj?

[@SCJSkeptic]

We asked questions about supernatural existence and causation as well as the validity of the bible. We also asked questions about their Revelation 7 doctrine change as well as their tactics. These are some of the questions I asked some of the leaders in SCJ: How did you determine that your specific god is a necessary cause for existence? Are you familiar with the cosmological argument and the teleological argument as well as the criticism of it? Have you investigated the origin of religion and morality in the fields of anthropology, sociology and psychology and what is your response to it? Can you present one example of the supernatural manifesting in reality in a detectable way based on empirical evidence (experimentation or observation) gathered in a systematic way? Do you know what the evidence presented within science for evolution and why does SCJ reject macro evolution? Are you familiar with the anthropic principle and have you considered the idea of life being fine tuned to the universe instead of the universe being fine tuned for life? Do you know what the most common cognitive biases and logical fallacies are that people commit? What method do you follow to determine a causal relationship between supernatural entities and the events that you claim is the fulfillment of the book of Revelation, and how did you confirm that this method is reliable? If you think supernatural entities are the best explanation for the events that you claim is the fulfillment of the book of Revelation, what alternative explanations did you consider and how did you rule them out? What events have happened for which your God is a necessary cause? Do you think it is logical to infer supernatural existence from supernatural causation? Who are the 144 000 priests that Man Hee Lee claimed were already fulfilled in the early stages of 2020? How is the great tribulation COVID, if it was formerly taught to be God's judgment that will result in salvation? Why do some regions in SCJ teach that Noah's flood was regional while other regions teach that it was a global flood? How do you know who wrote the pentateuch and what evidence do you have that those events actually happened (garden of Eden, Noah's flood, the exodus, etc.)? How do you know who wrote the gospels and what evidence do you have that Jesus actually resurrected? Why do so many people think that SCJ teaches that Jesus pre dated the first coming while SCJ actually teaches that Jesus didn't pre date the first coming? Why does SCJ not engage in public debate with respectable scholars? Why does SCJ label criticism as persecution? Do you think it is ethical to convince people of your doctrine through lying about your affiliation and capitalizing on social conformity through maintainers and spying on people? Do you think it is ethical to punish people infinitely for finite wrongdoings? Do you think the slavery and genocide in the bible is ethical (Exodus 21, Leviticus 22, 25, Deuteronomy 20, 1 Samuel 15)? What evidence do you have that Man Hee Lee actually received revelation from a divine being beyond merely creating linguistic patterns within a book and making claims about personal experiences he had?

[@SCJSkeptic]

Questions for SCJ: During the early stages of 2020 Man Hee Lee said that the 144 000 has already been sealed. Why do we still not know who these people are? How can it be expected of SCJ members to believe that this claim is true without any evidence? Why did Man Hee Lee state in 2023 that the sealing of the 144 000 have been delayed? SCJ teaches that the great tribulation is God’s judgment that will bring the great multitude to salvation. Man Hee Lee said that the COVID 19 pandemic is part of the great tribulation. How did the COVID 19 pandemic bring the great multitude to salvation since it killed many people in SCJ and millions of people in the world? kzbin.info/www/bejne/p5ixhn13aNRoedE kzbin.info/www/bejne/gZK7mmOcZbGSkK8 kzbin.info/www/bejne/sGithWCmfbdjnaM kzbin.info/www/bejne/mWaqc5Kfo92qha8 kzbin.info/www/bejne/bYHQlYyGpdB7irM Why does SCJ teach that John 16:25 is speaking about the 2nd coming while the context of John 16 implies that he was referring to the first coming? kzbin.info/www/bejne/qaqyeGeme91obM0 kzbin.info/www/bejne/hH7SZICMd8ifmMk Why does SCJ teach that the wicked servant in Matthew 24:48-51 is referring to the betrayers while the context of Matthew 24 implies that it’s referring to an alternative attitude of the faithful and wise servant mentioned in Matthew 24:45-47? kzbin.info/www/bejne/mGWUeZ53fa6anac What is more likely, that Man Hee Lee did in fact receive a revelation from Jesus or that Man Hee Lee copied the doctrine of former organizations that he belonged to that has similar doctrine to SCJ? kzbin.info/www/bejne/aJ3ZnoiGd9dnrrs Why does SCJ teach that Matthew 13:24-30 and 36-43 is the fulfillment of Jeremiah 31:27 while the context of Jeremiah 31 implies that God sows both types of seed while not mentioning anything about the devil sowing seed? kzbin.info/www/bejne/joOon59vi7mDoZI Why did Man Hee Lee claim that he stopped the Mindanao conflict in a short period of time even though it continued long after he made the claim? kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKKsiIqpncyohKM

[@kazbaby261]

When you say evangelist we’re you a JDSN ? Or BBT ?

[@SCJSkeptic]

She was the head JDSN of the church that managed the center teams and also taught BB

[@min-pn3qr]

Hi, could you please provide more information about LMH's sleeping habits and daily routine? We have been told that he only sleeps for three hours a day and constantly works to make members feel guilty about being lazy. However, this seems vague and difficult to believe.

[@SCJSkeptic]

From my experience with him during the trips he had in South Africa, he slept during the day sometimes and also slept for over 7 hours some evenings. He is however a very busy man and has a lot of zeal. I picked up that he had a lot of problems with his back and swelling on his feet. He is just a normal person that struggles with basic physiological problems we would expect of someone at that age. He spends a lot of time meeting with leaders and giving direction. He also writes a lot of letters to religious leaders involved with HWPL and various SCJ churches. Perhaps there have been stages in his life that he slept very little, but the claim of him sleeping 3 hours consistently over time is simply an exaggeration.

[@min-pn3qr]

Thank you for your response. It is crucial that someone who have had close contact with him share some observation into his character. 😊

[@truthandunity623]

Respect! I was worried about some friends of mine who are SCJ teachers. I myself am a believer, however I do not think that the method of explaining the bible (hermeneutics) and the tactics allign with truth. I have a question for you do you still believe in God?

[@SCJSkeptic]

Hello there 😀👋 Both Shane' and I don't believe in any gods anymore. We have an agnostic position.

[@truthandunity623]

@@SCJSkeptic Thank you for sharing. I had been doing bible studies with SCJ for around a year and have been in contact with a teacher for multiple years (as he is a high school friend). I got my master's degree in Theology. (I don't mean that to brag, just to say that Theology has taught me something about the history of Christianity in which SCJ is not unique. Neither in their explanations of certain bible scriptures nor in the methods they use.) Between denominations I consider to be christian there are differences in doctrine. I don't agree with SCJ that that means that they are not connected to God in a meaningful way. (As if the Church and believers were supposed to be infallible, or expected to be infallible with respect to doctrine). So there are a lot of things about which I can see how multiple points of view might be it, but I can't decide, but there is also a core of christianity which I do believe (hold dear as truth), which is that God created each of us ( every person is valuable), and God loves us (as exemplified in Jesus) and has made a way for us to be with Him (through the work of Jesus Christ in His death and resurrection). I just share this because what SCJ makes "true christianity" sound like is actually a heresy called gnosticism (broad label, basically "true" knowledge saves, always a focus on allegory instead of history, etc). While I, together with the history of Christianity support the position that the Gospel is that salvation is not a matter of mastery of complex prophecy. (Though there are tons of interesting things, and many theologians have found many more connections within the Bible than SCJ have invented). I'm sorry if this is irrelevant to you guys, but I thank you for sharing with us what the inside of SCJ is like and some of what their teachings are.

[@SCJSkeptic]

@@truthandunity623 thank you for your open mindedness and kindness 🥰 I think it's good for SCJ to receive criticism from multiple points of view.

[@questionsaboutscj9664]

Hey, I'm a current ex member as well. Even though I don't have a degree in theology, even I noticed that a lot of the teachings SCJ made didn't always hold up when you took into account the Greek and historical concept of the biblical passes. The best example would be how they justified using deception with 1 Corinthians 9:20-22, or how they outright strawman the trinity by misdefining the trinity with modalism, then attack it. Would you be down to share some of your thoughts? I am currently making a blog that counters SCJ, and currently I am focusing on their updated doctrines, failed prophecies, and the history of Man Hee Lee before SCJ.

[@truthandunity623]

@@questionsaboutscj9664 Great to hear. That's the thing they have people who love the bible and are critical, ofcourse they are going to have people who find holes. (Degrees definitely do not tell anything else than that I have the same interest in learning about the bible, the history of christian doctrine and the church, and more specifically about God and His works. Let me know which topic(s) you wish to talk further about. Really happy that you are making information available for other people to know what happens there. It's probably also good to critically evaluate and gain more insight on different topics.

[@Cre-qi2xy]

Ok so what happened is that you manipulated people and couldn't discern the spirit within a person....remember there is always repentance and forgiveness, you need to repent and ask God for forgiveness.

[@SCJSkeptic]

Why did you delete your comment on my testimony video? I was busy responding to it. You lack intellectual empathy since you mention things like "spirit" and "God" which both Shane' and I don't believe in. Perhaps you can present a sound argument to demonstrate the existence of these things. We will repent (change our mind) based on good arguments and evidence, not based on the gibberish SCJ has spewed our way so far.

[@Cre-qi2xy]

@@SCJSkeptic It's not intellectual empathy, it's just "empathy" I am being empathetic, and compassionate, if I didn't advise for you to repent and to forgive, then I wouldn't be giving empathetic and wise advice. God will forgive you if humbly repent and ask Him for forgiveness. - Mt 6:14-16 💕

[@SCJSkeptic]

@@Cre-qi2xy Intellectual empathy is the willingness to imagine ourselves in the mind of others in order to understand their ideas and learn from them. This is an intellectual virtue that is commonly found within the field of critical thinking. You clearly lack intellectual empathy because if you had imagined yourself in my position (not convinced of your God's existence), you would first try to demonstrate the existence of your God before telling me to repent of my sin and unbelief. Therefore, your advice is the opposite of wise, it's fundamentally irrational since I don't acknowledge the existence of such a thing as "sin". Sin is transgressing the law of your God (1 Jn 3:4). You would first need to demonstrate the existence of your God, that your God can manifest in reality in a detectable way, that your God has revealed a moral law to humanity and that this moral law is accurately portrayed in the bible before I would take you seriously about the concept of sin. I was hoping that you would present a sound argument to demonstrate the existence of your God as I had requested. How on earth will SCJ heal all nations if they can't even prove the existence of the supposed God they believe in. Are you freaking kidding me? What a joke!

[@pointthirteen2234]

This comes across as extremely condescending, you don't notice this? Many people in SCJ speak in this way, like they are always talking down to you.

[@swoosh3684]

SCJ will be brought down to its knees just wait. All will be revealed about what the evil the Satanic organisation has done to innocent people. Mark my words

[@luisroberto6790]

Infelizmente as pessoas saem dessas seitas destruídas e enganadas. E ficam desiludidas e acabam até perdendo completamente a fé. Deus vai cobrar caro desses lobos vestidos de ovelhas.

[@SCJSkeptic]

Faith is not a virtue. You can accept any proposition on faith. This makes it epistemically meaningless.

[@marliescarrel2692]

Ich denke es ist eben wahr,weil es sich nachweislich in Shincheonji erfüllt hat .Alles ist ein Prozess der sich verwirklicht im verheissenen Königreich das ewig Bestand hat. 🙏🕊❤ Hallelujah

[@SCJSkeptic]

@@marliescarrel2692 Can you explain how you confirmed supernatural causation behind the events that SCJ claims is the reality of the book of Revelation? I made a whole video about why SCJ's prophecy argument fails (kzbin.info/www/bejne/m6iliHWwdtehbdk).

[@avocadojones4268]

Thanks for sharing. What is your suggestion on leaving? Would you try to explain them why you want to leave or would you just say you're leaving... or would you just leave? Thanks for any help you're willing to give. I am afraid of stalking from them if I leave. They know so much about my personal life.

[@SCJSkeptic]

Hello there. It depends on whether you think you owe them an explanation or not. I would suggest you do what you think is best for yourself and don't worry to much about their reaction. They will probably move on rather quickly after you leave. This is a sad reality for many of us. It might be good to state your reasons for leaving and remain firm on what you want to do. Furthermore, set clear boundaries so that they know you want them to respect your privacy and freedom. Surround yourself with people who know who you really are, accept you for who you are and help you to become the best version of yourself. You don't have to do this alone. Get people to help you. There is strength in numbers and SCJ is terrified of the world knowing about who they really are.

[@avocadojones4268]

@@SCJSkeptic Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. I am so glad I found your channel. Monthly I got randomly invited to this online study which was called "fast food, slow food or spiritual food" and they sold it out to be some philosophical event. I didn't really wanna go but eventually thought - dang me - "it's just a zoom call, maybe I'll make some friends". And so it began. The more it went on, the more I didn't wanna stay - yet there I was: rushing out of work because if I was late they would be disappointed in me, dressing in white, bowing to people, ignoring family lunches on Sundays because I HAD to be online for hours or they would have made me feel guilty. I "joined" (not sure where I stand because I did have passover, but only took 1 of the 3 tests and haven't signed the book of life) as an agnostic and kind of remained firm in my beliefs, yet for some reason I was and still kind of am, frozen. I hated the endless meetings, I would often play on my phone during the lectures but I could not get myself to leave. I had looked up online Man Hee Lee the second they showed him to us and wanted to leave then because I felt so betrayed, thinking I had made good friends and instead they had been lying to me the whole time. But I stayed. Big mistake. They are spreading all over Europe too and your testimonies are so valuable. From the bottom of my heart, THANK YOU.

[@jacksonwong1408]

Question for the interviewee..so after you left SCJ, do you still consider yourself Christian (eg go to church)? Or have you left the faith?

[@shane4473]

Hi Jackson, I am now agnostic.

[@jacksonwong1408]

Are you able to describe a bit of your journey on that? Like would you ever consider going back to the Christian faith? Are u agnostic because there are some things in the Christian faith (not SCJ doctrine) that you don’t sit well with? Etc? I just tend to notice a trend that those who were Christian before SCJ tend to just not identify as Christian after their SCJ experience and sorta trying to understand why.

[@SCJSkeptic]

@@jacksonwong1408 that's a very interesting topic. I will make a video on this in the future. What I find frustrating is that SCJ cannot accept that anyone would leave SCJ because of logical reasons so they assume it must be for emotional reasons. What I find sad is that many religious people tend to do the exact same thing towards those who deconverted to a secular worldview. Many of us did extensive research before reaching a tentative conclusion that is subject to revision. Note that it is the theist who has the burden of proof, not the agnostic. www.learnreligions.com/why-be-an-atheist-248409 kzbin.info/www/bejne/fnjJq4KYgs2airs

[@shane4473]

@@jacksonwong1408 I would be able to become religious again if someone could provide me with sufficient evidence to believe. I have many moral issues with the God of the Bible and also no proper evidence that many of the events in the Bible ever happened. I therefore rather admit that I am unsure of the existence of God, but I am open to believing should sufficient evidence be provided. This conversation can become very extensive and you are welcome to email Shincheonji Skeptic, should you want to talk about this further.

[@anonymousone6922]

@@shane4473 there's a channel here on KZbin chalked" Cross examined " by Dr Frank Turek he provides evidences, there's also a few historical passages and pictures of where the Noah ark was and proof of Jesus being a historical figure. I'll check them and come back to you. Some geologians also found proof of certain things like the Sodom and Gomorrah incident.

[@poshposh-ez2ib]

What happens when most of the world eventually believes though? I agree that some branches are stricter than others, but with everything else aside what do you guys feel if this does fulfill? supposedly its only rev 18-20 to left.

[@SCJSkeptic]

I doubt that this will happen but even if it does, it would not demonstrate the truthfulness of their claims. Appealing to popularity to justify a conclusion is a logical fallacy. Furthermore, what if questions can be asked about literally any unfalsifiable proposition. It's a useless question epistemically since it doesn't demonstrate the truthfulness of claims. I don't think any prophecy has ever been fulfilled by any supernatural agents. I addressed this in this video: "SCJ Doctrine (prophecy argument)" (kzbin.info/www/bejne/m6iliHWwdtehbdk). Let me explain some basic concepts that might be useful in this scenario: There are two major ways to be fooled. The first major way is to believe what is false. The second major way is to refuse to believe what is true. Since none of us are infallible, all of us are wrong about some things. The problem is that we don’t know what we are wrong about. This is why we should always be open to the possibility of us being wrong about something and willing to change our mind when we are wrong. Open-mindedness does not imply gullibility but rather skepticism. Skepticism is a way of thinking to avoid being fooled. Gullibility is to be easily convinced of any claim without demanding evidence. Gullible people want to believe something and have a low standard of evidence. This results in them being overconfident in their beliefs and easily fooled. Skepticism is to demand evidence upon hearing a claim. While ordinary claims (supported by existing evidence) require ordinary evidence, extraordinary claims (oppose existing evidence) require extraordinary evidence (the quality of the evidence should be proportionate to the probability of the claim). Skeptics withhold judgment until there is sufficient evidence to justify belief in a claim. This results in them proportioning their beliefs to the evidence (held at different degrees of confidence in relation to the quantity and quality of the evidence that supports it). Skepticism should not be confused with denialism. While, skepticism is to doubt a claim until sufficient evidence is presented, denialism is to deny a claim regardless of the quantity and quality of the evidence presented. Denialists refuse to believe something and have an unrealistically high standard of evidence. This results in them being overconfident in their beliefs and easily fooled.

[@mildredpierce4506]

The Bible says in Romans 3:4 let god be true and every man a liar. A little old man in South Korea is a liar and a Wolf in sheep‘s clothing. ”Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.“ ‭‭I John‬ ‭2‬:‭23 ”that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.“ ‭‭Romans‬ ‭10‬:‭9‬-‭10‬ ‭

[@mal7977]

I have spoken to many different people in my region and beyond but there was none so far who are just "holding on to dreams and signs" again this could also be something very specific to the people you've met but most importantly the way others keep their life of faith shouldnt influence our own relationship with God.

[@SCJSkeptic]

Thank you for your comment. She did state that this is relative to her own experience. She didn't leave because of people either. She stated that rather clearly in her video. She left for similar reasons to myself.

[@shane4473]

Hi there. Thank you for your comment. The behavior of others did not affect my faith, in fact if it did, I would have left after one year in SCJ. The reason I left was because I learnt how to think critically as I mention in the video.

[@philipho5635]

I am curious about what difficult questions had been asked? 😆

[@SCJSkeptic]

We asked questions about supernatural existence and causation as well as the validity of the bible. We also asked questions about their Revelation 7 doctrine change as well as their tactics. These are some of the questions I asked some of the leaders in SCJ: How did you determine that your specific god is a necessary cause for existence? Are you familiar with the cosmological argument and the teleological argument as well as the criticism of it? Have you investigated the origin of religion and morality in the fields of anthropology, sociology and psychology and what is your response to it? Can you present one example of the supernatural manifesting in reality in a detectable way based on empirical evidence (experimentation or observation) gathered in a systematic way? Do you know what the evidence presented within science for evolution and why does SCJ reject macro evolution? Are you familiar with the anthropic principle and have you considered the idea of life being fine tuned to the universe instead of the universe being fine tuned for life? Do you know what the most common cognitive biases and logical fallacies are that people commit? What method do you follow to determine a causal relationship between supernatural entities and the events that you claim is the fulfillment of the book of Revelation, and how did you confirm that this method is reliable? If you think supernatural entities are the best explanation for the events that you claim is the fulfillment of the book of Revelation, what alternative explanations did you consider and how did you rule them out? What events have happened for which your God is a necessary cause? Do you think it is logical to infer supernatural existence from supernatural causation? Who are the 144 000 priests that Man Hee Lee claimed were already fulfilled in the early stages of 2020? How is the great tribulation COVID, if it was formerly taught to be God's judgment that will result in salvation? Why do some regions in SCJ teach that Noah's flood was regional while other regions teach that it was a global flood? How do you know who wrote the pentateuch and what evidence do you have that those events actually happened (garden of Eden, Noah's flood, the exodus, etc.)? How do you know who wrote the gospels and what evidence do you have that Jesus actually resurrected? Why do so many people think that SCJ teaches that Jesus pre dated the first coming while SCJ actually teaches that Jesus didn't pre date the first coming? Why does SCJ not engage in public debate with respectable scholars? Why does SCJ label criticism as persecution? Do you think it is ethical to convince people of your doctrine through lying about your affiliation and capitalizing on social conformity through maintainers and spying on people? Do you think it is ethical to punish people infinitely for finite wrongdoings? Do you think the slavery and genocide in the bible is ethical (Exodus 21, Leviticus 22, 25, Deuteronomy 20, 1 Samuel 15)? What evidence do you have that Man Hee Lee actually received revelation from a divine being beyond merely creating linguistic patterns within a book and making claims about personal experiences he had?

[@apaphiandesi1790]

Heeey I remember you, was there same time 😂😂.. I also got away

[@SCJSkeptic]

Thats great! Hope you well 😎👍

[@bellyjelly988]

Can you please share their core beliefs?

[@bellyjelly988]

Also is it true that they claim Lee is immortal? That he can’t die ?

[@SCJSkeptic]

​@@bellyjelly988 These are their core beliefs and how they explain them from the bible: 1. Secrets of heaven written in parables: Prophecies are sealed because they are revelations from God in visions that point to a future physical fulfillment that has not yet appeared (Hos 12:10, Am 3:7). God seals the meaning of the prophecies by recording it in figurative language (parables). The reason why God hides His will in figurative language (parables) is because of the ongoing war between God and Satan (Mt 13:10 - 17). Since the prophecy is sealed by God until the appointed time of fulfillment, no one can know the meaning of what is recorded. We only have the teachings of men until God’s prophecies are revealed (Is 29:11 - 13, Dn 12:4, 12:8 - 9, Hab 2:2 - 3, Rv 5:1 - 3, 1 Cor 13:9 - 12). The Jews understood some of the prophecies as they were not all written in figurative language, but the reason why they rejected and killed Jesus was because they didn’t understand the meaning of the spiritual prophecies of the Old Testament sealed in figurative language (Mt 2:3 - 6, 16:21 - 23, Acts 8:30 - 35, 1 Cor 2:6 - 14). There is a time for the contents of the prophecies to be hidden, but there is also a time for them to be revealed (Mt 11:27, Jn 16:25). When the appointed time of fulfillment comes, God opens the words of revelation, fulfills them and explains them to us. Some people are allowed to know the secrets of heaven and some are not allowed to know (You group vs Them group). The secrets of heaven must not be revealed to people who belong to Satan; only God’s children should know. If the secrets of heaven are made known to people that belong to Satan, then Satan will use that information to hinder God’s work (creation of God’s kingdom on the earth). Those who are not allowed to know the secrets of heaven will not understand the meaning of the parables no matter how many times they read them and how much they hear them (no eyes that see, no ears that hear). Even the disciples could not understand the meaning of the parables until Jesus explained it to them. Those who don’t know the true meaning of the parables are considered outsiders (gentiles, heathens, pagans, unbelievers, enemies) in God’s eyes, will not be atoned of their sins, will not be able to understand and keep God’s will (covenant) and enter into heaven. Those who know the true meaning of the parables will be atoned of their sins, will be able to understand and keep God’s will (covenant) and enter into heaven (Mk 4:10 - 12, Heb 8:10 - 12). Understanding the true meaning of the parables is the same as eating the flesh of Jesus and drinking the blood of Jesus (Mt 26:28, Jn 6:53 - 57). The parables that Jesus spoke regarding the secrets of the kingdom of heaven will not remain sealed forever but will be made known plainly when the physical fulfillment of the prophecies appear at the appointed time. At the appointed time when the parables are taught plainly, we will be able to clearly distinguish the “You group” and the “Them group” from each other (Jn 16:25, 1 Cor 13:9 - 12). The time of plain teaching is at the time of Jesus’ 2nd coming when the book of Revelation is fulfilled. This is the time when God’s kingdom of heaven promised in Matthew 13 will appear on the earth. The only way to find this kingdom is to understand the true meaning of the parables Jesus spoke about in the New Testament. All the answers for the secrets of heaven that were spoken in figurative language is hidden somewhere in the Bible. The three main realities of the New Testament prophecies are also called the three mysteries in the book of Revelation. The first reality is the mystery of the seven stars and the seven golden lampstands (Rv 1:20). The second reality is the mystery of the prostitute riding on the beast with seven heads and ten horns (Rv 17:5 - 7). The third reality is the mystery of the seventh trumpet (Rv 10:7). Only when one recognizes and believes in these three mysteries can one keep the book of Revelation without adding or subtracting from it (Rv 22:18 - 19). 2. The promised pastor (referring to their leader Man Hee Lee): The promised pastor is the one who comes in accordance with the New Testament prophecies. He is not God or Jesus but a messenger (servant) chosen and sent by Jesus to speak on his behalf. He is the woman that gives the yeast at the end of the age (Mt 13:33). He is the field in whom God’s treasure is hidden (Mt 13:44). He is the faithful and wise servant who gives the servants the food at the proper time - the hidden manna (Mt 24:45 - 47, Rv 2:17). He is the one whom the spirit of truth, the Counselor has come upon and is working through (Mt 23:39, Jn 14:16 - 17, 14:26, 15:26, 16:13 - 15). He is the one who comes in the position of John, receives the opened book that was formerly sealed with seven seals - the Word that no one has been able to understand until now (Rv 1:1 - 2, 5:1 - 7, 10:1 - 2, 10:8 - 11). He is the one chosen by Jesus to send letters to the messengers of the seven churches (Rv 1:9 - 20). He is the one who overcomes Satan’s Nicolaitans and receives the promised blessings (Rv 2 - 3). It is through him that God’s kingdom is established on the earth (Rv 3:12). He is the one who is shown God’s throne and told to fulfill God’s kingdom on the earth (Rv 4, 21). He is the seal of God who creates the twelve tribes (Rv 7). He is one of the two witnesses sent by Jesus and the seventh trumpet through whom the kingdom of the world becomes the kingdom of God (Rv 11). He is the male child who fights and overcomes the group of the dragon and establishes the kingdom of God (Rv 12, 15). He is the son of God who receives all creation as an inheritance (Rv 21:7). He is the one who has seen and heard the physical fulfillment of the entire book of Revelation (Rv 22:8). He is the messenger of Jesus sent to the churches captured by Satan (Rv 22:16). He has mastered the entire Bible, something that pastors, scholars and authority figures of the world have not been able to do for thousands of years. It is through receiving the testimony that he brings, that we can keep the book of Revelation without adding or subtracting from it (Rv 1:3, 22:7, 22:18 - 19). 3. The promised kingdom (referring to their church Shincheonji): The promised kingdom is the new kingdom and new people fulfilled according to the New Testament prophecies. This kingdom is created through God’s seed (harvest) and Jesus blood (sealing). It is the place where the will of God and the hope of mankind will be fulfilled - heaven and eternal life. It is the barn where believers are harvested to at the end of the age (Mt 13:30). It is the tree that grows from a mustard seed (Mt 13:31 - 32). It is the basket where the good fish are placed in (Mt 13:48). It is the location of the wedding banquet of the Lamb (God’s son) (Mt 22, 25, Lk 14, Rv 19). It is the elect that are gathered through the sound of the trumpet (Mt 24:30 - 31). It is the household of Jesus who receives the food at the proper time (Mt 24:45). It is the twelve tribes of Israel - the sealed 144 000 and the great multitude dressed in white (Rv 7). It is the Temple of the Tabernacle of the Testimony where those who fought and overcame the group of the dragon are gathered (Rv 11, 15). It is the Mount Zion where the 144 000 who sing the new song are gathered (Rv 14). It is the New Heaven and New Earth where the Holy City new Jerusalem will descend upon (Rv 21). It is the tree of life that bears twelve crops of fruit every month (Rv 22). 4. Order of fulfillment is betrayal, destruction and salvation: In every generation God made a covenant with his chosen people (Ps 89:3). The chosen people rebelled against God (betrayal) by breaking the covenant (Hos 6:7). The result of the betrayal of the covenant was that the chosen people were destroyed by the gentiles belonging to Satan. God chooses a pastor from amongst the rebellious chosen people and starts doing the work of salvation. The work of salvation is to gather people to the pastor God has chosen in order to escape the work of destruction. Prophecies are fulfilled according to the logic and order of rebellion (betrayal), desolation (destruction) and gathering (salvation). Our savior Jesus will only return to the earth to gather believers (salvation) after the promised events of rebellion (betrayal) and desolation (destruction) occur (2 Thes 2:1 - 4). They teach that the betrayers are the 7 golden lampstands (7 messengers who betrayed in Rv 2-3), the destroyers are the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns (7 false pastors and 10 authority figures who deceived the churches of the 7 messengers in Rv 12-13) and the savior is the one who overcomes (the promised pastor sent by Jesus in Rv 2-3, Rv 12 and Rv 15).

[@SCJSkeptic]

@@bellyjelly988 They believe that he is the pillar in God's temple in Revelation 3:12. They say that since the bible says that the pillar will never leave the temple of God that God has to fulfill the book of Revelation through Man Hee Lee. Some of them would say that he could die but that God would resurrect him in order to keep His promise. Most of them usually avoid this type of question.

[@bellyjelly988]

Thanks for the clarification

[@user-ci8li4co1l]

You learn this bible corse

[@almajacobs8387]

Who is the Word who was with God in the beginning and who is God? Who is the Word that created everything in the beginning ( John 1:1-2, Gen 1, Psalm 33:6) When you know who the Word, Holy Spirit truly is who was there in the beginning than only will you be free.I pray that the Holy spirit will open this truth to you so that you will be set free. Only those who enter by the door JESUS CHRIST will have eternal life( John.10) Anyone who enter by some other way is a thief and a robber. Anti Christ comes like a lamb( Jesus is the true Lamb) but speak like a dragon and anyone who believes him and bow in front of him and except him as savoir and buy his false word and sell it as the truth will recieve his mark 666. Only Jesus can set free from bondage. (Acts 4:12) He is the Cornerstone that many reject for there is no other Name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be save. He is the Alpha and Omega. ( Micah 5:1-5) He was there from the beginning and only in Him is peace for He is ( Isaiah 9: ) WONDERFUL COUNSELOR , MIGHTY GOD, ETERNAL FATHER, PRINCE OF PEACE. He is the visible image of the invisible God( 2Cor.4:1-7, Col 1 :15) All thing have been created through him but the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers so that they might not see the Light of the gospel of the glory of God who is the image of God for the revelation of Jesus Christ who is God (1John 5:20) We know that thd Son of God has come , and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true, and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life(1John 1:1-10, 2:1-2) ( 14:6-17) For the Father , Son Holy spirit is One ( Psalm 33: 6, Who creates heaven and earth) 1John 5 :7 These 3 are One( removed from new translation to in agreement) to mislead those who do not know Him as the true God , for the Spirit ( Holy) of God was moving over the surface of the water. Then God said ( Word)( Gen 1:1-3) Let us make make man (26) ( Hebrew 1:2) JESUS IS GOD !!AMEN HALLELUJAH!!

[@SCJSkeptic]

🤣🤣🤣🤣 sounds like someone is indoctrinated with ancient myths. What a bunch of word salad...

[@almajacobs8387]

​@@SCJSkeptic: Unless you except Jesus as Lord and Savoir you will never be free from satan. I dont know why you make this video because you still in the dark my dear. God is able to save His own. He dont need nobody else to do it. You really blinded by the beast .The Word say even if they hear the truth they will still deny Him but if someone else come in My Name they will except him. How can anybody believe in a false savoir.Jesus did warn us about this. How can anybody believe that the Holy spirit is a person? Even David cry out ; " Do not take thy Holy Spirit from me. But i feel sorry for you cause the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers.( 2Cor 4) Only the Holy spirit can remove it nobody else. 2.Thess 2. He will stand in the temple and say he is god and God himself will let you believe the lies of satan. If anyone excalt himself , you must know this is false word of the beast. He put his mark in your forehead ( his word) and your hand do do his will. 666 .God seal His People with His Word in our minds to know who He truly is : That Jesus is God. You fooling yourself if you think you are free., only Jesus can set you free..Satan knows that there only 1 sin that is unforgivable and that is blasphemy against God's Spirit, thats why he says he is the Holy spitit. No teacher has to teach you but the Holy Spirit ( Gods Spirit will teach you himself) JESUS CHRIST IS GOD AND HE WILL REIGN FOREVERMORE. THERE IS NO ONE LIKE JESUS WHO DIED FOR ME ON THE CROSS .IM NOT ASHAMED OF THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST. ITS ALL ABOUT JESUS AND NOBODY ELSE. EVERYONE WHO BRINGS ANOTHER LET THEM BE A CURSE. JESUS LOVES YOU AND HE IS OMNIPRESENT. HE IS EVERYTHING YO ME. IF I DONT HAVE JESUS I HAVE NOTHING. REPENT AND CALL UPON THE NAME OF JESUS YO BE SAVED. HALLELUJAH HE REIGNS FOREVER AND EVER AMEN.

[@SCJSkeptic]

Do you have any evidence that Satan exists and can manifest in reality in a detectable way? I dont believe in anything supernatural. This includes gods, spirits, demons, angels, satan, etc.

[@almajacobs8387]

​@@SCJSkepticGo read John 10:10 , Rev 20:10. YOU ARE SO BRAINWASHED MY DEAR. YOU SAY EVERYTHING THAT YOU WE TAUGHT BY THE BEAST BUT NO TRUTH

[@SCJSkeptic]

@@almajacobs8387 I weren't taught by the beast. I am not convinced of the existence of anything supernatural so you'll have to demonstrate how these supposedly spiritual things correspond to reality. I think that you are the one that have been indoctrinated with ancient myths and legends.

[@almajacobs8387]

Do you believe that Jesus is God?

[@SCJSkeptic]

No, due to a lack of evidence

[@leahespinoza8403]

“Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.” ‭‭I John‬ ‭2‬:‭22‬-‭23‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

[@SCJSkeptic]

@@leahespinoza8403 demonstrate the truthfulness of your claim please

[@leahespinoza8403]

What do u mean exactly? Like explain? This may be a better scripture to explain: “Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.” ‭‭John‬ ‭14‬:‭8‬-‭11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

[@leahespinoza8403]

@@SCJSkeptic “I and My Father are one.”” ‭‭John‬ ‭10‬:‭30‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

[@Cherry-to7mi]

Shané, may I ask you a question? You speak in the video that one of the purpose of evangelization was touch hearts of students. You could cry or pretend that you saw your students through.. Was you being taught do like that or it was you initiative?

[@SCJSkeptic]

Shane' says she were taught by the Korean head Evangelist in her region.

[@Cherry-to7mi]

@@SCJSkeptic Is I right took that all actions of evangelists are planned and arranged with high-ups?

[@SCJSkeptic]

@@Cherry-to7mi I would say it's dependent on each region's leadership style. In the regions we worked for SCJ, a lot of feedback was done regarding what evangelists should say and do.

[@KaT-An]

Please talk more....

[@SCJSkeptic]

Ill tell Shane' to stop watching so much Netflix and do more videos 🤣👍

[@KaT-An]

@@SCJSkeptic Okay thanks, thats a good idea 😆😅👍👍! Is she still believing in god and the bibel or is she also not believing in god like you (?) anymore?

[@SCJSkeptic]

@@KaT-An she also deconverted like me

[@user-du7ji8gm2r]

Was everything you learnt from SCJ trash? Is there a doctrine that you know of that is superior to the one of SCJ Do you expect Lee Man Hee' s doctrine to be accepted by everyone I the world? Was Jesus accepted by the ones who listened to Him wasn't He crucified by the religious leaders of that time? Do you expect all the people to accept the word of God? Did you know that God is understood and accepted by everyone? Did you know that fulfillment is from both aspects positively and negatively? For example Judas Iscariot fulfilled scripture but also the other 11 Disciples fulfilled scripture. So even you that is fulfillment of scripture and those who are still in SCJ are fulfilling scripture.

[@user-du7ji8gm2r]

Did you expect all the people to accept the doctrine of God? Doesn't the devil have any powers? Didn't Jesus say that the road to Heaven is narrow and the one to hell is wide? There are so many people on KZbin and many other platforms expressing opposition to SCJ. So my question is should we give up the truth for lies? The devil was at one time Lucifer ( An angel of light) but fall away with very many other angels so his ministry is so big and has existed for 6,000 years. Do you have a clue or what effect that has on work of God? Did you know that after such a long time the whole world turned from the image of God to the image of the devil? If the devil tried on many occasions ( but without success);to tempt Jesus Himself don't you think this very devil can successfully tempt any human being. You can attempt to fight the doctrine of God and the devil has already been doing it BUT at the end of the war there will be ONLY ONE victor with the followers. What makes the work Mr. Lee Man Hee is doing unique from others in the world is: His work has the backing of the word of God e.g * Harvesting * Sealing * Creating the 12 tribes * Testifying to the fulfillment of the Book of Revelation ( What He saw and what He heard) * Also the promises that are yet to be fulfilled. If whatever He says is lies my you engage Him directly rather than going on media and attack Him. Refer to Acts chapter 4 the Sanhedrin tried to convict the unschooled,ordinary men ( Vs 13) and even in the previous chapters or many other scripture the Sanhedrin used or misused the law to convict God's people. One of them advised and I am also warning you in the very words the Sanhedrin was warned. Let SCJ be if what they are doing is not the work of God it will not go on forever BUT if it is doing God's work you may find yourself fighting against God.

[@SCJSkeptic]

That's a lot of questions haha Not everything I learned from SCJ was rubbish. I think I learned valuable life lessons in SCJ. However, the supernatural claims of SCJ are all rubbish. I think all supernatural doctrines are equally irrational. However, I do acknowledge that there are people who have a more sophisticated interpretation of the bible than SCJ. One example would be John Macarthur. I dont expect Lee Man Hee's doctrine to be accepted by everyone in the world since I think that some people are educated enough to not fall for his irrational claims. The Jews rejected Jesus but I think they had good reason to reject him since I dont think he fulfilled the Old Testament prophecies. Note that I am against the crucifixion of Jesus by those who rejected him. I would have fought for his right to believe what he wants to believe. I dont expect all people to accept the bible as the word of God because I think some people are educated enough to see through all the irrational and unethical things it contains. I disagree that God is accepted by everyone. I dont accept the existence, omniscience, omnipotence and omnibenevolence of God. I dont think that any prophecies have ever been supernaturally fulfilled. There is simply no evidence for this. If you write a book that says that people will go against the work of that book, then obviously you could match this to someone who criticizes the book. I dont think the devil has any powers since I dont think the devil exists. I dont think the road to heaven is narrow and the road to hell is wide because I think that heaven and hell is fictional. I wouldn't tell someone to give up truth for lies but I dont think that there is any truth behind SCJ's supernatural claims. I don't think that devil has any effect on the world because I don't think the devil exists. I dont think that the world turned from God's image to Satan's image since I think those things are imaginary. I dont think the devil can tempt anyone since I dont think the devil exists. The war between God and Satan is imaginary. You have an imaginary friend that is fighting against your imaginary enemy. Your appeal to SCJ being unique is an appeal to novelty fallacy. I would like to engage Man Hee Lee directly but SCJ rarely does open public discussions with us that criticize them. Your explanation of Acts 4-5 is an appeal to popularity fallacy. I made a video about this a while back (kzbin.info/www/bejne/qIKzgmWXpMt7iM0si=PJZJvGcRg6oZZAIt).

[@cailou5075]

Can I please ask what the salary was like for someone in your position? I know that TGW will be paid by the church. May I please know the number? If dont you feel like sharing it here, thats totally fine. And I am sorry for asking

[@SCJSkeptic]

As far as I'm aware, people don't earn salaries in SCJ. Certain people of duty are entitled to a support fee (to meet basic needs) and certain benefits like accommodation. There are guidelines and regulations regarding what different people of duty are entitled to. Note that support fee can also be dependent on the financial situation of each region.

[@cailou5075]

​@@SCJSkeptic You are amazing. Both you and your brother. SCJ kept using people's niceness and kindness to benefit the church. I am there for 4 years. Most of the people I know (at least 70% of them), all quit their jobs and give in their "world processions" for SCJ. I also did the same thing cause it was the only way for me to be approved by the JDSN & KSN (for some reason, KSN didnt like me and kept calling me 'SATAN' when I was in CT class, right in front of everyone). That traumatized me till this very day. My only wish right now, is to seek legal justification (althought I've been told this is unlikely to happen by many people, I will not give up). Because what SCJ had done to me is irreversible. Caused me not only emotional and psychological pains, but worse. Much worse. Thank you for having this channel here. Looking forward to see more videos in the future.

[@shane4473]

Your question is perfectly normal. I did not get a support fee for most of my time in SCJ. The times I stayed with my family were easier, but when I was away from them I struggled financially because my family only sent a small amount of money. I did however get a little bit of support money from the church in one region I worked in.

[@johanpena4970]

I know in New york they will give you an unlimited metro-card (Meaning you can take the train or bus unlimited) and you will also get a lunch (if there is food in the kitchen) but this is only for evangelist.

[@cailou5075]

​@@shane4473 You are amazing. Thank you so much for sharing. In my region, the head CT instructor (with 18+ years of history insdie SCJ) kept asking gifts for us to buy. She would tell us in CT what she likes or "accidentally" tells CT students what she is looking for, but having troubles to get for herself. Each and everytime, CT students will buy for her (She has a very expensive taste, so the things she likes are the ones with a heavy price tag). There was one time, one KSN from SK Peter Tribe traveled to AUS to do his evangelisation work inside the church, and 'needed' a pen. What did we do? We brought the most expensive one in the market for him (out of our own will, of course, she suggested which one to get). That very night, after CT finished and everybody had gone home, we were having TGW training and he was giving us the ‘words’. He said this: If you wanna to be like me, you must study hard seal the words and evangelising hard so the Great Multide in White would come quickly to serve us as kings and lords (just like the BIBLE had said). By that time, we will also be able to ask them to buy us expensive gifts and presents. (wish I had recorded what he said that night. That look on his face I will be remember forever). People who are with SCJ for a long period of time can all related to what I am saying here : all leaders of SCJ's true nature and motives are very questionable

[@Dandelion_flight]

You say that Lee was at Oxford and the response wasn't really that good etc but what kind of response do you think Jesus had from the Jews during His first coming? Jesus was rejected so often, even his hometown rejected him. The kingdom of God on earth starts small but one day this world will pass away and the kingdom of God will last forever. And you say he has more rest time than 3 hours. Ok, so my question is what is wrong with an old person having a longer rest time when he works tirelessly every day for so many years? He still has this flesh that gets tired. Even Jesus was tired and fell asleep in the boat in the storm and he was in the prime of his life in terms of physical age.

[@SCJSkeptic]

Her point is that SCJ claimed that the response was good but it actually wasn't. It was exaggerated and misrepresented. There is nothing wrong with an older person getting more rest. Her point was that SCJ exaggerates and misrepresents the amount of hours MHL rests. You can't be this stupid. Are you trolling?

[@Dandelion_flight]

@@SCJSkeptic Her sharing on these two is skewed and just leave the interpretation to the listeners. And you deleted my other comment??

[@SCJSkeptic]

@@Dandelion_flight I didn't delete any comments. Perhaps youtube filtered it for you. What was skewed? Your statements have no explanatory power and contains hardly any specificity.

[@Dandelion_flight]

@@SCJSkeptic all good, the comment is here not deleted. I couldn’t see it but after your sister replied I can see it. Thanks.

[@SCJSkeptic]

@@Dandelion_flight You didn't answer my question 🤣🤣 We really need to work on your communication skills.

[@QuotationCandles]

Secret Cult cult cult

[@mildredpierce4506]

Correct. I was in an online Bible study but they did not tell us what ministry you associated with until after seven months. But I already have discovered by accident the KZbin channel. I heard a little old South Korean man say that he was giving the little screw by the angel. That did not sit well with me but I didn’t say anything. It was about two months later before the name of the ministry was finally mentioned in the Bible study or the fact that the little old man was supposed to be the fulfillment of revelation and that he was South Korean. There were several things that I was taught in my church that I just could not let go of even though SCJ taught the opposite. Even though I knew months in advance that the Bible study was associated with SCJ, it wasn’t until they mentioned it in the Bible study that I decided it is time to go. There were too many things that didn’t sit well with me even though I tried to feel enthusiastic about what I was learning but I couldn’t. I lift quickly and asked God to forgive me for being in it as long as I was.

[@ritakyere4068]

What makes the church a cult? Come to think of it, that's exactly what happened in the time of Jesus's first coming, let's reason right using the scriptures. My submission though....

[@SCJSkeptic]

@@ritakyere4068 SCJ is classified as a high control group (i.e. cult). I made a video about it (kzbin.info/www/bejne/aWOtpnWHibKGjtE).

[@marinalina6348]

Officially, a Christian cult is a group that changes the role or deity of Jesus Christ, as opposed to orthodox definition, and with that generally comes the high control factor​@@ritakyere4068

[@almajacobs8387]

You dont really say anything about Jesus

[@SCJSkeptic]

Whats your point? I am not a Christian so I don't care much for that dude

[@Dandelion_flight]

Thank you Shane for sharing your story, of cos we know it is not everything and understand that it is impossible to share everything both good and bad that you have experienced. But I want to say that you entered SCJ from a place where you actually did not believe. It seems like you have believed over time but actually you did not, because you went back to the original place you were at about God. It seems like you just went through some religious commotion all those years, just like your brother. Actually in your heart, you just wanted the things of the world, especially a partner. And that was one reason why you ended up in SCJ, the hope of finding a partner. And you say your life is way better now - have a partner and a job - but in God's eyes, that are not necessary His definition of better. And the evil spirits that you think did not enter you might are already happily working in your heart and life, deceving you that you are having a much better life. Since you were teaching, you know exactly what happened to the great prostitute. And even though the one who made the people take the mark of the beast is alive and seemingly healthy, that does not mean he has not been judgement. Judgement happens and the consequences can come later but by then it would have been too late. Hell awaits those who are still happily enjoying their lives in oblivion. Lastly, what is lying? I think you missed out explaining the true meaning of lying according to God. Please don't say you do not lie today. Even a simple 'Sorry I am not free to talk to you now' when a marketing person calls your phone is also lying. I am sure you have experienced such. Do not be self-righteous.

[@SCJSkeptic]

People change their mind regularly. You can be sincerely convinced of something and then later change your mind when you realize that you are mistaken. It seems like you are stuck in some type of dogmatic thinking. You keep making unsupported assertions. Can you read people's minds? It seems to me that you are just making stuff up. This makes you look incredibly stupid. What evidence do you have that your god even exists? How did you confirm that evil spirits are working through Shane'? You assert that she is deceived, what did she state that is factually incorrect? Lying is misrepresenting reality. Truth is that which corresponds to reality. Truth is not determined by the minds of people or the authority of gods, truth is determined by reality. What if a god said that something is true even though it doesn't correspond to reality, would you believe it is true? You are the one who is self-righteous. You assert that you possess the only truth and that Shane' is deceived but provided no evidence to demonstrate the truthfulness of your claims. Please email me at [e-mail] I want to do an online debate with you regarding the existence of the god of SCJ and SCJ's arguments regarding prophecy and fulfillment. Have some courage and face me out in the open for the whole world to see.

[@shane4473]

You are a bully. Your comments are proving to all the people watching this video how judgemental SCJ is towards others. Please don't delete them.

[@Dandelion_flight]

@@shane4473 I am simply stating facts from what you shared in your video. And your video as you say, does not cover everything, it is surely biased and presents an incorrect and warped idea of what SCJ is. It is what your heart says and our hearts are wicked and deceitful (Jer17:9). If what is being carried out in SCJ are backed up with scriptures, it is God's standard, but you are making it man's standard. Your video will help those who have the same desires and itching ears to agree with you and and follow man's standards, which are exactly what satan wants. Jesus talks about overcoming with God's word as the standard and healing the nations, but you are after your own definition of what life here on earth is and your focus is on man. Nobody in SCJ is perfect yet. Dont keep using the words 'I do not believe in the word anymore' In the end, you are telling God that you do not believe in His Word and just as lucifer, he fell because he did not believe in the authority of God. All the reality of Revelation and the scriptures cannot be denied.

[@Dandelion_flight]

@@shane4473 See how judgemental you yourself are? You use a sweeping statement at SCJ because of the facts I am stating from my personal standpoint. I didn’t want to post any comments at first but the content of your video just make me feel awful - what you shared is skewed and does no justice to the church. You can call me a bully for stating facts. I am just standing up for what is truth.

[@SCJSkeptic]

@@Dandelion_flight Demonstrate that God and Satan exists with reliable evidence. Your whole worldview is built on assumptions.

[@pavitra29425]

Hey, you betrayed God

[@SCJSkeptic]

Your comment isn't very useful. Imagine if you stopped believing in santa clause and people kept telling you that you betrayed santa clause. How would you respond to that?

[@dajourphil0soph3r36]

How do you Betray God?

[@Dandelion_flight]

From what you shared, I really just saw one thing loud and clear... you are your own god and simply running after your own desires. You never really even had faith in God at all, not even the first faith.

[@SCJSkeptic]

A god is generally defined as a creator and sustainer of the universe that is also spaceless, timeless, immaterial, omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent. I doubt that she believes that she is such a god haha. That's a silly statement you made. Shane' sincerely believed in the god of SCJ but then realized that her position was not supported by good evidence. She did what any rational person should do, she changed her mind. You are just making stuff up to maintain your dogmatic beliefs. Making all these unsupported assertions makes you seem incompetent.

[@Dandelion_flight]

@@SCJSkeptic Calling yourself an instructor (I know you are Laurie) and yet not understanding the definition of 'god' according to God's Word, the scriptures, is really ludicrous. You can use the English dictionary. There is only one definition and it is from the scriptures.

[@SCJSkeptic]

@@Dandelion_flight I "used" to be a SCJ instructor brobeanz haha. Your comment implies that you disagree with my definition yet you provided no explanation regarding what you disagree with and also provided no alternative definition. You fundamentally misunderstand the nature and complexity of language. Language is subjective since we mentally assign meaning to sounds, symbols and gestures. My definition is in line with the bible. Like for example: God is the only true God (2 Chr 15:3, Is 45:5 - 6, Jer 10:10, Mal 2:10, Jn 17:3, 1 Thes 1:9) who created all of creation within both the spiritual and physical world (Gn 1:1, Neh 9:6, Is 37:16, Col 1:16, Heb 3:4, Rv 4:11, 10:6). God is not a created being but the only being within existence that is self-existent - not created but eternal (Ex 3:14, Is 40:25 - 28, 46:5, 1 Tim 6:16). God is a spiritual being (Jn 4:24). God has an unchanging divine nature (Rom 1:20, 2 Pt 1:4). God doesn’t lie or change His mind and He fulfills everything that he promises (Num 23:19, Jos 21:45, 1 Sam 15:29, Is 14:24, 46:10, Jer 4:28, Mal 3:6, Lk 24:44, Jn 10:35, 14:29, 19:30, Tit 1:2, Heb 6:18, Jas 1:17, Rv 21:6). God is all knowing (omniscient) in the sense that he knows everything that can be known within his nature (1 Kgs 8:39, 1 Chr 28:9, Job 21:22, 37:16, Ps 44:21, 139:1 - 6, 139:15 - 16, 147:4 - 5, Is 40:13 - 14, 40:26 - 28, Mt 10:29 - 30, Lk 12:7, Rom 11:33 - 34, Heb 4:13, 1 Jn 3:20). God is all powerful (omnipotent) in the sense that he can do anything that can be done within his nature (covenant, plan, promise, prophecies, purpose) (Job 42:2, Is 40:28 - 29, Jer 32:27, Mt 26:51 - 54). God is all good (omnibenevolent) in the sense that he is perfectly good, loving and just in all he says and does (Dt 32:4, 2 Sam 22:31, Ps 18:30, 19:7, 92:15, 145:17, Ez 18:1 - 32, 33:1 - 20, Dn 4:37, Mt 5:48, Mk 10:18, Lk 18:19, Rom 12:2, 1 Jn 1:5, 4:8).

[@Dandelion_flight]

@@SCJSkeptic I am talking about human beings being their own gods.. Just like you always thinking you are wise and want to challenge God and believers who believe in Him. At the end of it all, both you and your sister are your own god and unwilling to allow the Creator God who wrote the Bible to rule your lives. And if God is not your God then who is your God? You. Just as Lucifer wanted to be like God and became satan. He does what he wants and an opposer of God.

[@SCJSkeptic]

@@Dandelion_flight You presented no coherent definition of what god is to you. So thinking that you are wise makes you believe that you are a god? What!? Haha. That's just stupid man. I am simply demanding evidence for the supernatural claims made by people. That's the rational and wise thing to do if you want as many true beliefs as possible and as few false beliefs as possible. I don't believe in the existence of any gods or devils. I try to live an intellectually virtuous life. Do you have any evidence that such things exist?

[@gebbm-lj8jg]

Hey can i have sister shanés contact i was one of her students i really needs her help just left scj as well

[@SCJSkeptic]

Please email me at [e-mail]

[@gebbm-lj8jg]

Sent already

[@SCJSkeptic]

I received it. Ill forward it to Shane' 🥰🙏

[@user-nr2oj7sr1p]

Do you have Facebook mam I want to talk to you about this

[@SCJSkeptic]

You can email me at [e-mail]

[@reinah7061]

Ma'am do have a messenger account? Can I contact you there?

[@SCJSkeptic]

You can email her at [e-mail]

[@reinah7061]

​@@SCJSkeptic Done, Please check it. Thanks.

[@SCJSkeptic]

@@reinah7061 We got it 😎👍