Shapton 120 vs Atoma 140

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[@biscuitkitchentreviews]

Glad to see all those sharpening tests culminated in a review type of video. Very informative.

[@Burrfection]

right on. glad you like it

[@justinwilliams4212]

This was a really useful video thanks. I've been gaing back and forth trying to decide whether to pull the trigger on the DMT Diaflat (crazy expensive) or the Atoma 140. This was the final video to help me decide - the Atoma has it! it just seems more versatile, especially as I saw you have the 400 grit sheet attached on the other side of the plate. thanks

[@RyanTaylor-pi8gq]

I own the DMT Extra Coarse (much cheaper than the Diaflat), the Atoma 140 and the Shapton Pro 120. If you intend on being able to flatten stones, the Atoma is the way to go. If you're looking to work mainly on knives, I'd give the edge to either of the other two. Between the two diamond plates, the DMT is faster on knives, probably because it doesn't have interruptions in the grit pattern, but that's also probably the reason you can't flatten with them. When doing very coarse work on knives, I tend to prefer diamonds over stones, mainly because they're less messy. I cannot comment on the Shapton Glass.

[@agnosjr]

Thank you for sharing the knowledge! Great video.

[@Burrfection]

doing my best

[@lordzansu]

awesome, all the relevant info i could imagine you could put into a conclusion video =) the only thing i could imagine you mentioning as well is carbon vs/and high alloy feel

[@Burrfection]

will try to include that info for future reviews

[@haydenmacdonald]

Do you have any resource recommendations for people looking to get into hand-sharpening? Perhaps resources that cover the very basics of knife sharpening from knife types, stone types, brands, grits, technique, etc.

[@jamesgroomes1812]

hey partner, Many other videos try and tackle these but no ones doing what you are, I find, listening to you valuable. What they say is describing big bodies of knowledge to the layman, is a healthy practice. Keep it up, for me I want to see going on pro series from dubbed off, to the very top with you using every regular shapton along the way. I am looking at 120 220, 320 now.

[@Burrfection]

thanks James. i'll be releasing more videos like this, so don't worry. thanks for watching.

[@hooliganAvail]

Glad you talk about hardness but what about high carbide knives like 10v class or higher. I come from the pocket knife side of things and alot of them are packed with vanadium. They range from the low 60s to 69 hrc and alot of the hardness comes from the carbide formation not just on high carbon content.

[@pay-tray-it4897]

I've spent A TON OF MONEY over the last 3 months and not happy with any of my purchases. I'm a seasoned shear sharpener( beauty scissor), with over 28 years of experience. I'm trying to replace 2 Diamond resin bonded stones purchased some 20+ years ago. A 3000 grit and a 6000 grit. Neither companies offer these products any longer.. I use them not to sharpen, but to create a truly clean flat inside edge to sharpen to. So far I've purchased the DMT DIA SHARP 4000. 6000 and 8000 grit Plates as well as Naniwa super stones in 5000 snd 12000 grit. And still can't duplicate what I need.. I'm now looking at Shapton Glass stones but would hate to waste any more $ on trial and error.

[@roxenfors]

Hi Ricky, Can you try to use shapton glass with higher pressure. Use enough pressure so the stone will release worn particles and expose particles with better shape, in the sene of abrasion. I would be very curious to hear from you if the SG then fells like a 'true' 120 grit stone. Cheers!

[@uncoeur]

What about re-shaping the blade and removing knicks and chips?

[@pmunson7063]

Thanks. Great comparison.

[@Burrfection]

just keeping it real.

[@larryseibold4287]

very interesting observations. Your report of the Atoma 140 diamond plate is exactly the opposite of what i would expect, in that i would assume that it would be the one that would bite the best in the harder steels due to the diamond hardness (mohs 10) compared to the other abrasives on hard stainless steel (RHc >62).

[@jensebu78]

Yes, exactly my thoughts, how is that possible! I trust him, because he is really experienced, but i can not understand it at all!

[@sharpfactory3705]

The thing is with the atoma when you use it a long time to flatten whetstones you wear down your diamonds and make them dull, but it should still cut even when they are dull

[@3obardThawn3]

thank you.

[@Burrfection]

anytime!

[@RyanTaylor-pi8gq]

Should try the DMT Extra Coarse sometime. It's a little more consistent for knives than the atoma 140 IMO.

[@44dmt]

Great comparision as always, but I still can't decide. It's not strictly knife related but maybe you can help. I have a whole bunch (like 40-50) chisels to restore, mostly reestablishing bevels and flattening, so it's a lot of hard steel to remove. I can get shapton pro or glass 120 for the same price, Atoma or DMT is about twice as much. Would you recommend any of these stones or I would be better off getting coarse sandpaper and shapton glass 320 to remove the scratches from sanding? Thanks in advance!

[@taylor4386]

You'll probably want to avoid the shapton glass, it's a great stone, but very small. Go with the kuromaku by shapton. More stone for the $$. Save the diamond plates for lapping your stones. Jmho

[@MultiMeschi]

For exactly that purpose I bought a shapton pro 120. Works great. For big chips in broad chisels however, consider using a belt sander.

[@golfessor2678]

Better late than never. Ryky, "I thought you said; "never jump on a stone 320 and under to start a sharpening process." I understood these stones were for repairs;

[@twinwankel]

Thanks Ricky. I have DMT sharpening stones and I also don't like the feedback I get from them. They are good for sharpening planes and chisels though. How fast would pro wear? I have a King 240/1000 that is worn significantly after two sessions and it's disappointing. So I'm looking for a much harder stone but a good one. Thinking about going back to my coarse Norton oil stone but oil is a mess.

[@Burrfection]

the king stones are notorious for fast wear but the shapton pro 120 is quite the opposite. it'll wear, just like every coarse stone is designed to, but much slower than most. i have used nortons in the past but never going back to oil stones, because of the mess. right now, shapton pro 120 is going for $58, but the same stone with japanese writing is going for $46 amzn.to/2jWn6Hf. i have bought and used both and they are the same. if you don't care to get english writing, you can save some money.

[@twinwankel]

thanks for the tip. I will order that.

[@westvespers]

Ricky, was wondering if you had any recommended resources (or perhaps a video I missed?) on entering knife sharpening as a hobbyist. Your whetstone reviews are great but I don't want to purchase something whose benefits are subtle and maybe lost on a beginner; I also don't know exactly how many stones I need for home use.

[@Burrfection]

hmmm. i don't have a video explaining that, but i'll work on that this week

[@westvespers]

Burrfection Thanks! Apologies for KZbin comment request, I'm not on FB or Twitter. Consider a professional email to check every few days? Though that's just something else to add to your probably already full plate.

[@jamesb.walker9177]

Brilliant! Do you think a Atoma 400 would have the same dull feeling on "hard" knives?

[@Burrfection]

working on those sharpening videos this week. will know soon! but my guess, yes.

[@FearNoSteel]

good report, which stone makes better grit jumps? maybe the glass? go straight to a 800-1000 with no 300-500. that's what I am looking for

[@BigThumpr1]

Big Brown Guy you can go 500, 1000, and either a 4000 or 6000 on the Shapton Glass stones, but if you had to do two, go the 1000 and the 4000. It's all on how you use your knives, if you are rough on them, consider three stones, one for re-honing, one for finishing and the last for polishing. If you keep up with your blades then a finishing and polishing is all you need. Not many people really need to get into reprofiling their blade edges. Depending on the type of steels you are sharpening Shapton Glass has two series. The HC which is for your carbon steels, and the HR which is for the super steels and tool steels. Hope that helps you out.

[@BigThumpr1]

Also, another thing you want to invest in is a good strop. Stropping your blade several times a week will keep a nice keen and blistering sharp edge. Chef Knives To Go sells a really nice kangaroo leather strop, get the Kens CBN .10 micron which equals out to 160,000 grit, and your blade with proper technique will push cut through paper with no force. I currently use a Knives Plus strop that comes loaded with their green compound. It works awesome, but I am gonna make the jump to the kangaroo leather strop with the CBN emulsion spray.

[@FearNoSteel]

haha very helpful guys but I am on the same page ;) I'm just curious if I can use a shapton glass 120 to a naniwa pro 1000 then finish on a 3k naniwa pro with a 1 mic. strop WITHOUT having 120 scratches in on the bevel. So I can speed up the process and reduce the stones to get there.

[@BigThumpr1]

I would personally put a 500 grit stone in there. Going from a very aggressive 120 grit all the way to a 1000 is quite a jump and may not be the best way. It might be more to do 120, 500, 1000 and finish with a 3000, but that's how I would approach it if you are having to start out on such a coarse stone. How bad is the edge on your blade that you are having to start out at a 120? Also what kind of knife and knife steel are you trying to sharpen? The reason I ask is some steels are more resilient and need the step up in stones to properly bring that edge to the desired sharpness you are seeking.

[@lordzansu]

Big Brown Guy from ryky's videos the Glass indeed seems to be the best option here, if you sharpen a small edge on a really thin knife I don't really think I well matter much, but for normal usage I would put something in between, and as others mentioned bevel set on a 400ish stone, unless that is you just did some major chip repair work

[@Reza-nz2re]

Hi ricky...I have a chip brand New Deba ( shirogami ). My friend use it to chop frozen food and chip like 2mm. I want to buy 120 grit shapton glass HR or better buy shapton kuromaki 120 grit?? Or maybe 220 its fine to fix chipping deba (2-3mm chip)

[@Burrfection]

the shapton pro / kuromaki wear quite fast, especially when grinding down debas. i personally use the atoma 140 for all my chipped knives bur.re/atoma. the shapton glass 120 is nor where near or coarse as other 120 stones.

[@stevew3978]

I've just finished thinning a couple of very crudely-made Pakistani damascus chef knives that I bought on eBay and Etsy. These cheaply-made damascus knives are so thick and so poorly made and that they wedge vegetables apart instead of cutting them. To make them useful, I thinned at least 1mm off the thickness from their edges. On one knife I used a soaking 220 grit stone and that effort took me close to 4 hours, including about an hour of polishing. On the other knife, on a different day, I used a 320 grit Shapton glass stone and that one took me close to 3 hours to thin the knife. After these 3 to 4 hours of marathon thinning sessions, I was worn out. I could have saved myself many hours of precious time if I had used a belt sander or orbital sander to do the rough thinning and profiling. My opinion is that Japanese sharpening stones shine in the medium to high grit levels. However, when it comes to the ultra coarse stones, they are simply not practical for most heavy re-profiling and thinning uses because a belt sander or orbital sander would work at least as well but can achieve the same result in a fraction of the time.

[@jaewonlee8615]

i have a question what is a difference between king KDS and other king stone 1000/6000

[@3obardThawn3]

JaeWon Lee kda is for harder metals. that's what I have.

[@jamesb.walker9177]

KDS should be a better overhaul stone

[@Burrfection]

the KDS amzn.to/2k18cCe is the stone you want. it has the deluze 1000 side, and the s1 6000 side.

[@qqkk5581]

I would have like to have seen you include a Norton 120 silicon carbide oil-stone (Norton Crystolon) in your comparison. I have the Shapton series in your review but recently started using oil-stones for some of my woodworking tools. Very interesting, try one and review it when you get a chance. Oil-stones are favored by finish carpenters in the winter months (no water to freeze). Keep up the reviews.

[@Burrfection]

i'll look into it. a lot of people have been asking about Nortons,

[@BigThumpr1]

There are two types of Shapton Glass stones, the HC series is for your carbon steels, and the HR series is for the super steels and tool steels.

[@Burrfection]

i'm not convinced there is a major difference between them, but i'll a set of each and see for myself soon

[@BigThumpr1]

This came strait from Shapton themselves. The HC stones are not as aggressive, they recommend that you used your Stainless steels, powdered steels and tool steels on the HR stones because of the way the stones cut on the higher Rockwell Hardness steels. Taking the manufacturers word for it. But if you could do a test with a stainless steel knife on both stones and give some feed back that would be awesome. Would like to know if their allegations are true between the two types of stones.

[@bryanessig8814]

Ricky, I have been looking for a comparison video for Shapton Glass 8000 versus Naniwa Junpaku Snow White. Any chance of seeing one from you any time soon? I know you have them both! Maybe compare also the new Naniwa Traditional Stone 8K which is supposed to be the new replacement for the Snow White.

[@Burrfection]

i haven't sharpened/polished on them yet, since i've got some many things lined up. but, i'll since you asked, i'll get some polishing done on all 3 stones, and put some videos together in the next couple of weeks. sound good?

[@bryanessig8814]

Excellent! I think you will be the first to do a video comparison of those three stones. I'm sure there are others that are interested in seeing you do the comparison as well!

[@naysankhadem3966]

So... do you think you could get a Tormek?

[@Burrfection]

haha. don't think so . a buffing machine?

[@EmperorProtects4848]

aw heck... so i ordered a shapton pro120 today just because it only costs half of the atoma and i only reprofile a knife every now and then. i still blame you though ;) keep up your good work.

[@Burrfection]

get what works and what you can afford. stay in touch

[@jimihenrik11]

So I'm commenting on a 5 year old video, since I'm actually looking for an extra coarse stone. What I noticed with this video is that Ryky tested all the stones with super fine kitchen knives. He even mentioned that all the knives developed a burr withing the first pass. I think this is not the best way to test extra coarse stones. For those fine kitchen knives you would want to start sharpening with a medium grit (e.g. a 1000), because you would be much faster at your goal overalll and could just use fewer different stones. What I would actually want to do with a stone like this is sharpening thick outdoor knives, that have a lot of steel at the edge (like a scandi grind). These knives can take forever to sharpen on a medium stone even with an edge that is in great shape and therefore benefit from an extra coarse stone.

[@GlennLaguna]

Atoma 140 is an excellent flattening stone for the price.

[@dimmacommunication]

Coarse diamond stones works well to flatten stones,not to sharpen knifes.

[@Burrfection]

thanks for the input. i personally do not agree, but everyone is entitled to their opinions.

[@dimmacommunication]

Burrfection Even guys at DMT says that :) I don't know why I don't get notifications when you respond me :S

[@pepepepito7824]

bap, bapp