Shelly1 No Neutral at switch? Install at light bulb "Circuit Hack" No permanent Live wire!

If you don't have a neutral wire behind your light switch, you can't put the Shelly1 behind the light switch either. The Shelly1L version does however support no neutral operation. But I wanted to see if it was possible to install Shelly1 by the light fixture itself. This would be handy if there was no room behind the light switch, and not possible to put it behind the switch anyway. We have a precious neutral by the light bulb, but no permanent live, only a switch feed. So I decided to make a quick connect board that keeps the Shelly1 powered, even if the switch is in the off position!? the circuit hack generates a power supply for the Shelly1 and a "virtual switch signal".
I also did a sonoff mini version of the circuit. • Sonoff mini Hack. No n...
00:00 Intro
00:53 No neutral at the light switch for the Shelly1?
01:27 Explanation for no neutral at the switch
02:16 The problem with putting the Selly1 by the light bulb
03:03 Circuit hack that enables you to put the Shelly1 by the light bulb
04:03 Explanation of the optocoupler circuit
05:09 Practical circuit with the actual real-world components chosen
06:05 Capacitor and diode circuit, to stop the some types of LED bulb from flickering
06:40 Build circuit on to a "quick connect" board, for easy installation by the bulb
07:29 Testing LED light bulbs for half wave DC compatibility
09:33 Circuit demonstration with a test rig
10:49 Installing the shelly1 by the light fixture
12:02 Demonstrate and test the final installation working
12:59 Front and back view of the completed circuit board
#ElectronicsCreators

[@jetblackstar]

This is fantastic use of AC electronics for one wire signalling. Very clever.

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

Thanks! Here's another video with more AC electricery. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nIWWiq2qipeAj6c

[@epnasis]

This is brilliant!!! 👍🏻

[@svbakulin]

Very well explained. I suppose all "no neutral" switches use the same principle. By the way, these days there's Sonoff "mate" that works with the main Sonoff switch and from what I understands does the same job as the customer circuit in this video.

[@sebingkaiproduction9665]

What is this sonoff “mate” and where to get it? Thanks

[@MrBobWareham]

Very nice for old Shelly but now with new Shelly it is redundant but for you or anyone with an old Shelly a very nice work around thanks

[@bexroot634]

This is brilliant 👌 😲

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

We're just taking advantage of of the quirks of AC, and the fact that LED light bulbs offer us opportunities to run on them on DC. I like to experiment with electronics, to find new "off label" uses for things. 😉

[@piotrskorupski2617]

Damn! Dude, this is just brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

😉👍😀

[@johnnylockwood]

This is so much more work then just getting the Shelly L

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

It's true that the Shelly L and it's bypass, is just a "drop in" no neutral option. But if you already have some Shelly1s lying around, it gives you more options. For example, if you can't fit your Shelly behind the light switch, you can put it by the light fixture itself (and you might even get better wi-fi reception up there). This circuit hack also works with the sonoff mini, and maybe with some other smart switches. So it definitely has its "niche uses". I just think it's good to have more options available to us.

[@davinchewk]

Any chance you can explain the math behind chosing the components in your circuit?

[@JuanAmeijeiras]

It is a really great project! What is the compatibility with other smart switches, like other shellies or other brands?

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

I made the original version for the Sonoff MINI. The only difference is the Shelly version as an extra diode and capacitor. This is a small improvement that makes it compatible with more types of LED bulb, and stops some types of bulbs from flickering. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rmi0aXSJZ5hrprs

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

One of my viewers has verified it working with the shelly plus1 as well.

[@GlennPierce]

Could you perhaps measure the power being used while on and off ?

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

I have not measured it but it's about 1w with the relay ON engaged. Off should be much less just standby current. If I get time I'll do some measurements. The half-wave DC should not effect it because the internal rectifier in the shelly1 is half-wave as well.

[@bexroot634]

wow it works for me thx

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

I'm really glad you got it working 😉👍. It's a very simple circuit, but it's also very easy to get something wrong. And at mains voltage it's very easy to destroy electronic components. I'm working on a video to do this hack to a smart bulb directly. In this way a ordinary light switch can control a smart bulb without disabling it in the off position.

[@bexroot634]

@@MyProjectBoxChannel It is a really great KEEP UP

[@rafiqpatel829]

Thats a really useful hack, would it allow to turn on at switch and off at switch or vice versa? Also would it work with a shelly dimmer? Would be great if it does.

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

Yes!👍It works with all combinations of switch position and Wi-Fi control. Not sure about the dimmer version. I will have to get one to try. It works with half-wave, so might be problematic.

[@rafiqpatel829]

@@MyProjectBoxChannel Great thank you, wish I had confidence in making the circuit board, and advice, assistance or instructions you can share please? Thank you

[@tin101104]

How to modify this circuit for using with Sonoff mini R2. For idea... it will be fantastic if there is space for solder fusible resistor on L-in to.

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

I did think of making a similar PCB, as I did for the shelly, but I don't know if it's worth making a video about. Adding the fusible resistor is something I should have done for all the circuits🤔. I was just trying to keep them as simple as possible. The Shelly 1 and sonoff mini circuit hacks, are essentially the same. It's just how it wires to the devices is slightly different connections. And the Shelly one has the addition of an extra diode and capacitor, for better smoothing of some flickering LED bulbs types. With each new circuit, the design became more refined and improved.

[@myopinion69420]

I have never seen wiring like this here in Aus, the way my house is wired, the live, neutral and earth go to the fixture an a pair of wires go down to the socket. The way it is essentially wired is the same as in this video, but you will have 5 wires at the bulb.

[@myopinion69420]

It's called 'looped at the light'

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

If it's wired the same as the UK you won't need my circuit hack. You will have everything you need to wire the mini, at the ceiling rose. I made a video about it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJKki3RufseUh7c

[@DanCatanase]

That's a great idea to have everything at the light ceiling rose! What's the max power of the bulb(s) that can be connected using this circuit? Could you share the design of the PCB?

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

Just a reminder for everybody living in the UK. If you live in the UK and have the three plate ceiling rose (loop in system) you most likely don't need this hack since you have permanent live and neutral and switched live, at the ceiling rose already. This hack allows you to connect to the two wires going to the light bulb itself, if this is your only option. You can screenshot the PCB design and component values straight from the video.

[@relativenormality]

@@MyProjectBoxChannel Yeah - in the UK a situation you might face is not being able to reach the loop in the ceiling at at all and all you have is the switched live at the switch (often two switches to control one circuit as well ). I got out of this by using the Dimmer 2 inline at the switch and fed the existing 3 wire switch circuit from the Shelly SW1 out - and it works perfectly - I believe there is now a no neutral version on the Shelly 1 now as well.

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

@@relativenormality I'm no a big fan of the shelly NO-NEUTRAL option. You still need the special load bypass unit for it. People have also reported the bypass units blowing up!🤔 I do have a more "universal" no-neutral circuit. It works with many different makes smart switches. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nIWWiq2qipeAj6c Here is a example with a sonoff M5-3C kzbin.info/www/bejne/bpmVamBmp9WEgNE

[@relativenormality]

@@MyProjectBoxChannel it's definitely a last resort but I just put it in a circuit with 13 gu10 LEDs and none of them were stuck on at off / zero brightness and the dimming is smooth EDIT - no bypass either. It was for a client. My ones at home that are also no neutral have only 6-8 lamps.on and on both circuits one is always on dim at off. I don't mind - sort of a nightlight. If I needed a bypass load I would use the small one from Danlers

[@ameythombre3976]

this is amazing solution - any plans to turn the board in PCB with components mounted? I understood the circuit but was confused looking at your board with jumper wires. I would like to get the PCB. Also the polarity of the diode at the switch is important as it needs to be opposite to the one in the wave detection circuit for this to work - may be very important point to remember/consider while implementing this.

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

I might have some PCBs made in the near future if there is enough demand for this. I know of at least one person who has had professional PCBs made for this project. The layout of the board can be changed to suit your own needs. Yes the diode polarity is very important 😉.

[@vasilistsouvalas7360]

@@MyProjectBoxChannel I would like to get a PCB as well. Any updates on where we could get this?

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

@@vasilistsouvalas7360 I simply don't have time to do a PCB 😔. I'll have to leave it up to others to take up the challenge.

[@vasilistsouvalas7360]

@@MyProjectBoxChannel I have tried to create a PCB following the schematics you provided. Could you quickly check it to see if I made any mistakes? I have used EasyEDA to create the PCB, so if you have an account there I can directly share the project with you. Thanks in advance.

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

@@vasilistsouvalas7360 that's not a bad idea. I could have a look in the next couple of days, when I have time. You can message me on Facebook messenger.

[@jeralweb]

Hi there ! is there any way I can buy pre made circuit board like the one you did. I am not good with soldering and electric stuff. I am also in UK (Leicester). Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

I'm very sorry but I'm not currently manufacturing any of these circuit boards. I just don't have the spare time. However if you do decide to make it yourself, take care! this is mains voltage you're dealing with.

[@jeralweb]

@@MyProjectBoxChannel Thanks.

[@petar.]

Hello, I've got a small dilema about something, and would appreciate if u could give me your thoughts on it. Like many people, i have no neutral wire installed behind switches in my apartment, so ive got to use some way to overcome that. But, there is one thing that, I think, makes it easier for me. I've got two live wires coming from the switch to ceiling light, so i was thinking of sending one live directly to the light fixture, where i would put smart switch module, and the other one could be controlled by fiscal switch, which would pass 220v when on. I know there are solutions like Shelly 1 and others who accept 220v as external switch trigger, but the only thing I have available for me right now is Sonoff mini, which as u know uses low voltage ground for external switch. My question for u is, what do you think the best solution for using 220v to bridge S1 and S2 inputs would be? I was thinking of high voltage relay of some sort but am really curious of your opinion non that? Thank you in advance.

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

yes it is possible to use a relay with a 220 volt coil. The relay contacts can then bridge S1 and S2. You can get quite small relays that have a 220vac coil, but they tend to be rather expensive. It might be easier just to use a Shelly1.

[@sebingkaiproduction9665]

I don’t really understand about electronics. I only have Sonoff Mini R2. Is the hack the same? I see Sonoff have 6 port and Shelly have 5 port.

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

This is the equivalent circuit for the Sonoff mini-R2. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rmi0aXSJZ5hrprs But if you prefer to put it by the light switch, I have this simple circuit kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXO1ZoJpbpaglcU

[@dnadna6593]

Hi, I tried this on a using 10uF 250v Capacitor and the light and it did remove the flickering. but however when I switched off the the switch, the capacitor blew. I tried using it with a 10uF 400v Capacitor and that one went up in smoke. I see that you use a 4.7uF 400V Capacitor, is it important to follow this?

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

You have to be super careful!! If you get the polarity of the capacitor wrong it will go Bang! The same thing will happen if you get one of the diodes in the wrong polarity. 4.7uf works for some LED bulbs, 10uF is more universally compatible. I suggest you make a test set up first, to verify its all working. You can use safty current limiting, in the form of an old school in incandescent light bulb, Just like I did in this video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXO1ZoJpbpaglcU at this time stamp 12:56. This will prevent things from going Bang while you are testing.

[@jeralweb]

Are you back to uk now? Thanks.

[@davidmensik]

I really don't want to change the light fixture in this case - live is always powered, so a little bit uncomfortable to touch ;)

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

From an electrical perspective the light switch is NEVER a safe means of isolation! When you work on electricity you should always turn it off at the consumer unit / fuse board, directly. Anybody could walk into the room and turn the light switch on. Never trust a light switch to be "Off", I have seen them wired to the neutral wire before.(the light will turn off and work perfectly but the live is still there)

[@jetblackstar]

I have an unsafe ass of a brother in law. Which has endured I never forget to isolate the circuit at the breaker. As I can guarantee he'd come and switch on that light switch. Even though I now live in a different house 🤣 the moron is keeping me safe from afar.

[@johnym26]

What about two way switches? Could it be done also for two way switches?

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

It is possible, but there are some caveats 🤔. This subject probably deserves its own video. The diode needs to go across the incoming Live from the first switch, and the outgoing Switched Live from the last switch. That's not very convenient for most two way lighting setups. It is however possible with the UK's two way system. The other solution is to use momentary "push type" switches instead.

[@johnym26]

@@MyProjectBoxChannel 👍🏻 Waiting for your video!!!!!!

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

@@johnym26 actually you got me thinking, there might be a better way of doing it.

[@tonyellwood8192]

Are you selling the circuit hack adapters on ebay ?

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

Yes, but not the circuit from this video. Just a few prototypes, for people to test. Just a limited number for those who don't feel comfortable with building mains power circuits. It's not really worth my time and effort. I did a trial run, just to see if there was much interest. The modules are from this video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/o6vRqWOupKtrec0

[@bexroot634]

Excellence work, how can i contacted you i have a circuit to check it with you.

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

Message me on Facebook facebook.com/My-Project-Box-105438131355367/

[@bexroot634]

@@MyProjectBoxChannel thx

[@ehfire]

Excellent video. Can a buy a circuit? aliexpress?

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

I don't have the spare time to currently in manufacture these. If there is enough demand I will probably produce a few pcbs for sale. There are a few people who have had professional pcbs made themselves. Maybe some Chinese copies will appear on eBay soon.

[@partyscoutereurope2586]

What is the lifespan of your solution? Afraid to burn down my house after i seen this burned units from the bypass of shelly

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

I've not had any problems yet. But it's probably a good idea to add a 10R fusible resistor for some extra protection. This should give the circuit some extra longevity, as it takes some of the stress away from the capacitor rapidly charging with inrush current. And in the event of something failing, the fusible resistor safely disconnects. It's a safety feature that many LED light bulbs use internally. I have a different circuit example where I use one of these fusible resistors. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXO1ZoJpbpaglcU

[@partyscoutereurope2586]

@@MyProjectBoxChannel lets see if i can build it. I am IT guy but soldering works for me for some reason even if i dont understand what the components do :) Thank you for the great guide

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

@@partyscoutereurope2586 okay just take care when working with mains voltage circuits. Things can go bang if you make a mistake!

[@jeralweb]

I need atleast 4 or 5 peice of above circuit. I dont mind paying you also no rush when you get a moment. Just name your price if you dont mind. Thanks

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

I'm not in the UK at the moment. And the postage and packaging is probably going to be crazy high from the island of Madera.

[@jeralweb]

@@MyProjectBoxChannel i mean I can wait untill you can come back this will make my life so easy.

[@hoiwingfung9101]

It is awesome project. I have tried your diagram with Shelly 1 and Shelly 1pm. It is working fine for the led bulb. I have another question. Do you think it can apply for ceiling fan? How about Inrush problem?

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

I wouldn't recommend any thing else other than a LED light bulbs. The output is DC and most fan motors run on AC. You can probably run something like a 12v LED power supply for LED strip lights, but you have to test it first.

[@hoiwingfung9101]

​@@MyProjectBoxChannel How about find a DC motor? Do you have any idea? Thank you.

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

@@hoiwingfung9101 yes in theory a fan with the DC motor will work. Or you could use a 12 volt power supply (SMPS Type! not old fashioned transformer) and use a 12 volt fan, or a 12 volt computer fan. Just remember that your diodes in your circuit need to handle the current of your load. That includes the diode across the light switch.

[@hoiwingfung9101]

@@MyProjectBoxChannel yup, I will test it later. Thank you.