Shirley Ballas discovers her hidden Muslim past - BBC

[@sadised434]

With regards to the video and comments below, I would like to clarify certain misconceptions. In the context of South Africa the word Malay is a complex concept. It does not refer to Malaysia or Indonesia, at all. It refers to a very mixed Muslim people who were Dutch dissidents - people who rallied the masses against the Dutch. About 350 years ago, These distinguished personalities - the Rulers(Sultans), Political exiles and Islamic Scholars, from Hong Kong(Chinese Muslims of Cape Town), India (Eastern and Southern parts), The Indonesian Archipelago (Java, Aceh, Sumatra , Malaysia (Johor and Mallaka) and Sulawesi (Macassar), were banished to Cape Town, South Africa and were forcefully diminished in to slavery - the punishment for resisting and rallying against the dodgy, deceptive, diabolical, dictatorial, in-compassionate Western European colonisers. There, at the southern-most tip of Mother Africa, they were enslaved to work on their farms, their kitchens as cooks, seamstresses and tailors, and some were ejected into total isolation to the barren, un-inhabited and wind-swept Robben Island, just about 2km off Cape Town, to keep them from rallying others against the Dutch in Cape Town. Later Muslim whites (English, Scottish and Dutch, who married any of the above-noted people), were also grouped with the Malays of Cape Town. Therefore, in South Africa the term Malay refers to a VERY MIXED group of people who were/are Muslim. It was a concept used for racial categorisation during the despicable, dictatorial Dutch-Afrikaner Apartheid hegemony. Regarding the concept Malay, in South East Asia, If we look deeper into the East Indian Company Colonial history in South East Asia, we will learn that Malay was the lingua franca used by the traders (commerce merchants) who were from many parts of the world, such as, Europe (England, Holland, Portuguese), Middle East (South Arabia) and Asia (China, Borneo, Sulawesi, Java, Sumatra and Malaysia). In this part of the world it had no bearing on racial or religious categorisation. It was merely a trading language. In summary, the concept of Malay differs greatly between Cape Town - South Africa and South East Asia. In South Africa, during the heinous apartheid Afrikaner-Dutch ruling, it was used as a racial category referring to a very mixed people who practiced Islam. On the other side of the continuum, this concept refers to a trading language used by Europeans, Middle-Eastern, Indian, Malaysian, Indonesian and Chinese traders. ***(Sorry, I did not include academic references to make a more rigorous argument. I wrote this response based on memory of seminal works, scanty little skewed "academic" articles (written by the Dutch-Afrikaners), and many personal coversations with my elders in Cape Town. The apartheid Dutch government made a concerted effort to rewrite history, heroising themselves and making everyone else the villains - who were seemingly, according to their biased and racist narrative, inferior in race, skills and intelligence. To keep the truth hidden they criminalised anyone who recorded or propagated the history of this Mixed group of the people - the Cape Malay (and other non-white peoples). So most of our history has been lost. )

[@NanetteNette]

Thank you for the concept clarification

[@headcheesegeezer1099]

You seem very biased, and "speaking to your elders" is not a trustful source. Malay does indeed refer to Indonesia and Malays, although the group became ethnically diverse and mixed over time. Also Malay was definitely not just a trading language, it was and still is the language of the Malay people, and because of their dominance the language became lingua franca in trade. Also, regarding rewriting history, you should look into what your current government is doing.

[@sadised434]

Head Cheese Geezer ... so what is your definition of a trustful source... a text written by dubious Malays, Dutch and British whites ... How totally ignorant of you. Next, to clarify and dispel your distorted view about the majority black South African government, They make a concerted effort to respect and give equal opportunities to everyone In that country, regardless of race, creed, or colour. A narrative that is not well embraced by locals / natives of Malaysia, or Western European countries.

[@sadised434]

Head Cheese Geezer ... I’m utterly baffled by your distorted, tainted, and myopic stance on things. Could you clarify how Malays are ethnically diverse from Indonesians? They speak the same language, they have the same cultural traditions, and they have the same genes - they all look the same. Also, as you know the ancestors of most Indonesian and Malaysians are Chinese, Thai, and Indian. ( Regarding similarities in genes and behaviour, The same applies to the Philippines, Cambodians, and Vietnamese. Well there are some differences, most of them are not as fake, fickle, and fluid as many of the drunk Cambodians with their hustler mentality. Nor are they like the innately uncivil and racist Western Europeans (of whom there are many) who abhor competing on equal footing with non-whites. Most of them want to be privileged because of their colour, instead of skills and knowledge. Just look at the racist rhetoric being promoted, enforced, and implemented in Western Europe, USA, Canada, and Australia - countries who murdered the non-whites ( native Indians and Aborigines) en masse... and still do. How horrendous, don’t you think?

[@clarkkalel1500]

Dont know if anyone gives a shit but if you guys are stoned like me atm then you can watch pretty much all the new movies on instaflixxer. Been watching with my brother for the last few days :)

[@t.bozmkw3562]

She is from the Cape Malay community. She has black blood but they won't be able to trace as we have no formal documentation past a certain erra. Otto is Afrikaans. She is clearly coloured.

[@syasol]

later in the episode we find out she's actually of muslim malagasy descent from madagascar through her ancestor, caroline otto (which in south african terms still means "malay") so she isn't really of ethnic malay descent from nusantara. obviously the malagasy people are descendants of southeast asia seafarers from like 1000 years ago, so it comes full circle.

[@kaktees]

Malay is a race, Muslim denotes religion. One is not a complete subset of the other. From my experience, the conflation of both terms could cause confusion especially when used interchangeably.

[@anunyabeeswax7266]

Dude... Clearly expressed! I will cite you if I use this phrase.

[@samcavallaro]

Though it sounds like at the time and in that context it meant a Muslim.

[@kaktees]

@@anunyabeeswax7266 Aww that's so nice! Thank you! Guess my prof taught me well haha

[@sadised434]

With regards to the video and comments below, I would like to clarify certain misconceptions. In the context of South Africa the word Malay is a complex concept. It does not refer to Malaysia or Indonesia, at all. It refers to a very mixed Muslim people who were the Dutch dissidents - people who rallied the masses against the Dutch. They included the Rulers(Sultans), Political exiles and Islamic Scholars, from Hong Kong(Chinese Muslims of Cape Town), India (Eastern and Southern parts), The Indonesian Archipelago (Java, Aceh, Sumatra , Malaysia (Johor and Mallaka) and Sulawesi (Macassar), who were banished to Cape Town, South Africa. Here they were enslaved to work on their farms, their kitchens as cooks and some were ejected into total exclusion to the barren, un-inhabited and wind-swept Robben Island, just about 2km off Cape Town, to keep them from rallying others against the Dutch in Cape Town. Later Muslim whites (English, Scottish and Dutch, who married any of the above-noted people), were also grouped with the Malays of Cape Town. Therefore, in South Africa the term Malay refers to a VERY MIXED group of people who were/are Muslim. It was a concept used for racial categorisation during the despicable, dictatorial Dutch-Afrikaner Apartheid hegemony. Regarding the concept Malay, in South East Asia, If we look deeper into the East Indian Company Colonial history in South East Asia, we will learn that Malay was the lingua franca used by the traders (commerce merchants) who were from many parts of the world, such as, Europe (England, Holland, Portuguese), Middle East (South Arabia) and Asia (China, Borneo, Sulawesi, Java, Sumatra and Malaysia). In this part of the world it had no bearing on racial or religious categorisation. It was merely a trading language. In summary, the concept of Malay differs greatly between Cape Town - South Africa and South East Asia. In South Africa, during the heinous apartheid Afrikaner-Dutch ruling, it was used as a racial category referring to a very mixed people who practiced Islam. On the other side of the continuum, this concept refers to a trading language used by Europeans, Middle-Eastern, Indian, Malaysian, Indonesian and Chinese traders. ***(Sorry, I did not include academic references to make a more vigorous argument. I wrote this response based on memory of seminal works, scanty little skewed "academic" articles (written by the Dutch-Afrikaners), and many personal coversations with my elders in Cape Town. The apartheid Dutch government made a concerted effort to rewrite history, heroising themselves and making everyone else the villains - who were seemingly, according to their biased and racist narrative, inferior in race, skills and intelligence. To keep the truth hidden they criminalised anyone who recorded or propagated the history of this Mixed group of the people - the Cape Malay (and other non-white peoples). So most of our history has been lost. )

[@headcheesegeezer1099]

@@samcavallaro I think it was a case of semantic change. First the only muslims there were Malays, and they spoke Malay, but later on the group came to incorporate many other ethnicities

[@adisha1605]

I am a Malay and a Muslim in Malaysia 🤗 that’s a mouthful

[@davidsweeney111]

and as an English culture encrusted Conservative voter she doesnt look happy about it

[@charissecoal]

😂

[@rookdjvans9321]

She very surprised,

[@adamahmad9606]

Yes.From my understanding.Her ancestor was Malay rather than Muslim for some reason.I believe,her great granfather was in fact a Malay.

[@kaktees]

Yeah! He looks Cape Malay.

[@thorts]

People need to look into cape town and south africa before commenting lol Cape Malays also known as Cape Muslims or Malays, are a Muslim community or ethnic group in South Africa. They are the descendants of enslaved and free Muslims from different parts of the world who lived at the Cape during Dutch and British rule

[@London_miss234]

Lovely!

[@blackorchardz]

My great aunt was married to an Otto. We are Indonesia - Javanese heritage.

[@101publicenemy]

MALAY IS A RACE, IT DOES NOT MEAN MUSLIM. CONFLATING THE TWO TERMS DENIES RECOGNITION OF HINDU, BUDDHIST AND CHRISTIAN MALAYS.

[@rasoulkailani8345]

101publicenemy The Cape Malays in RSA are almost all Muslim

[@md.muzahidulislamsamrat8037]

even today in malaysia a malay is defined as muslim in the constitution

[@thorts]

People need to look into cape town and south africa before commenting lol Cape Malays also known as Cape Muslims or Malays, are a Muslim community or ethnic group in South Africa. They are the descendants of enslaved and free Muslims from different parts of the world who lived at the Cape during Dutch and British rule

[@officesaredull]

Ha ha ha!!!! What a shock she got

[@mqb5151]

Haha

[@starlight_44]

Is she related to dancer Mark Ballas?From DWTS

[@j.b.9260]

Mother.

[@sommerwano3414]

Alyce Kyteler⭐🌠 that’s his momma.

[@sashaa_stevenss]

Yep, that's her son ❤

[@CWb2006gl]

Downton Abbey, Adam the turk and Queen Mary, the grandmother

[@felicia3924]

Wauw. A million years ago. Many generations ago and 1 single person wasnt a christian her whole life and shes actually taking it as if its BIG news.

[@adamahmad9606]

Malay? Meaning her great ancestor must be either from Malaysia, Indonesia or Brunei.

[@WobstaCat]

They were referred to as'Cape Malays'. It was essentially a catch all name but pretty much anyone who was Muslim (regardless of ethnicity) were called Malays.

[@adamahmad9606]

WobstaCat Cape Malays from Capetown I suppose? I read about it bfr.So it make sense

[@elkapitan75]

Originally from Dutch controlled parts of Indonesia (Javanese)and Malaya (Malacca). They were Malay dissidents who were sent to Cape as slaves by the Dutch. So in short yes but not from Brunei.

[@johnwoods7650]

More interesting than her father's ancestry, is her mothers. She might be talented in the dance world, but she has poor judgement in the real world. She kept trying to make excuses for her great-grandmother abandoning her children after her great-grandfather died of cancer. Her great-grandfather left all his money to his mother and you have to ask why. Even amongst Shirley's own family her great-grandmother had a bad reputation. Could her dying great-grandfather have known her great-grandmother was having affairs while he was in hospital and that's why he didn't leave his money to his wife or his children and thus his wife? Certainly, her death from Syphilis might suggest she slept around. Shirley suggested she had got it from her violent second husband who she married and ran off to America with abandoning her children. However, it is equally as likely that she gave the disease to him. Third stage Syphilis might account for his violent behaviour too.

[@maha4621]

Who’s shirely

[@mathieuleader8601]

is it on repeat

why is she surprised? all we white people did was colonise black and brown countries and rape there women..not saying tht in a proud way of course not,but the chances of us having mixed or different religions in own heritage is going to be pretty high

[@samy7013]

For her own good in this world, and most importantly for her good in the hereafter, I hope that she embraces Islam. May Allah guide her!

[@Roundtreee]

As Shirley's nephew I find it weird and sad that she pretends I don't exist and won't give me any information about my dad (her brother) who I found out about and who committed suicide. Yet here she is. Shirley will leave me with unanswered questions for the rest of my life and has destroyed a part of me.

[@alittlelife8650]

how do we know you're telling the truth

[@mcooper4239]

This woman is so full of herself. She said “if you’ve got it, flaunt it”. She does flaunt it, but she’s not got it. She says she looks younger than her 48 year old boyfriend. Oh dear.

[@HerrZitronensaft]

Cool

[@Vinny-Zen]

Religion is tiny, it's like saying Wow! my ancestors wore boots instead of shoes! who would have thought that! so to highlight such an insignificant thing like that is weird lol

[@belugaabs]

so what?

[@TheSearaider]

BBC tailoring the narrative ! Malays were not all Muslim very few at that time .

[@Skymaster.47]

Malays have been predominantly Muslims since the 14th century. What the hell are you talking about?

[@Sayyeda.Zaynab.kamoonpury786]

It's great and honourable if your ancestor was a Muslim. Then you should study Islam dear friend. You can read some of my Islamic writings if you google s.zaynub.kamoonpuri.

[@Nikkibl0m]

having a muslim in the family history is NOT exiting at all.

[@rookdjvans9321]

Wny

[@rookdjvans9321]

Why

[@Nikkibl0m]

@@rookdjvans9321 why would it be?

[@rookdjvans9321]

@@Nikkibl0m why not

[@rookdjvans9321]

@@Nikkibl0m explains your reasons

[@ThomasWilliams89]

horrible news for her. Time for you to go.

[@t.bozmkw3562]

You are bigot.

[@godatetsu]

Coloured not an african man