Shoehi Ohtani K's 10 AND Hits Two Home Runs || Baseball Is Dead Episode 118

Breaking News: Shohei Ohtani did something amazing! Ohtani struck out 10 batters while hitting 2 home runs in the same game and we’re trying to figure out how he isn’t already the all-time leader in WAR. Alek Manoah got rocked in rookie ball and Dallas says he is staying away from making Blue Jays predictions for a few years. Other topics include buyers/sellers at the deadline, Wainwright deleting Twitter, Steve Cohen’s impending press conference, and more! Thanks for listening and we’ll see you tomorrow!
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[@jaykoh1514]

ohtani leading the league in touchdowns AND interceptions... word

[@jdbmd1499]

He's wishes he was Tim O' keefe

[@fuqwytes6458]

the DH penalty is way too huge and takes away a bunch of WAR for a guy who doesn't just sit on his ass as a DH. He's actually using that time to recover for being a starting pitcher. Think about it, other starting pitchers don't have to DH and other DHs don't have to pitch every 5-6 days. The DH penalty shouldn't apply to Ohtani

[@sweatyraider7241]

Once he retires his 2 way journey and gets on a retirement tour as an outfielder he is still going to be frigging good

[@Keeazul]

Japanese fans know Shohei Ohtani would easily be one of few marvelous outfielders if he wanted because they saw him out there do great when he was in NPB. Analysts need to come up with some "improved" WAR formula since it is literally dysfunctional.

[@CarlHancock]

The wild thing is Ohtani could absolutely play OF if he was allowed to do so. He made 7 appearances in the OF with the Angels in 2021, although it was only for a total of 8 innings or so and to get around the DH rule at the time. But playing him in the OF is just too much risk to take. He's too valuable as a starter and DH to risk getting injured on an outfield play. The stats weren't designed to account for a player like Ohtani. He's a unicorn.

[@superfactorial5717]

He also at least trained as a shortstop in japan btw I dont remember him playing tho, probably because he bulked up He did play RF/LF back before

[@CarlHancock]

@@superfactorial5717 He's played OF for the Angels also. Appeared in a few games there before they changed the DH rule with the Ohtani Rule. A lot of major leaguers actually played shortstop before turning pro. Below college typically your best player would play SS and most of the players that end up in the major leagues were those best players. It isn't unusual at all for the best players on high school teams to play SS and pitch at the same time. They just get pigeon-holed as soon as they reach college and in the rare instances where they are a two way player in college... they get pigeon-holed again as soon as they begin in the minor leagues. I have no doubt Ohtani could play the OF at an above-average level. SS would be a stretch at his size though. It's just too much of a risk as he's too valuable as a P/DH to risk him getting hurt in the OF. The beautiful thing is that if he ever declines as a pitcher but his bat is still alive he could easily switch to playing OF rather than simply DH.

[@lxbui]

The analysis and discussion on bWar and fWar are so honest and thoughtful.

[@zhoubaidinh403]

The calculation for WAR was conceived as a metric for conventional major league baseball as we have known it...Ohtani is an anomaly. It's like Einstein had to introduce a new metric to correct for conventional classical Newtonian physics.

[@panner11]

Except they don't actually have much perception of how WAR is calculated. There's a lot of problems with war, but it's not the reasons they mentioned. They just made a bunch of false assumptions about WAR. Shohei is obviously the best player but that's not what WAR tries to measure.

[@seekthao]

A pitcher is 10xs more valuable to defense than an outfielder. One strikeout equals a homerun robbery and how many homerun-robbing catches happens in a game? Honestly. Not much. Once in a while? Number would be negative. Can’t tell me an outfielder scratching his ass in the outfield is more valuable than an ace pitcher whose job is to prevent runs and hits. No. WAR algorithm needs to change to accommodate …. change.

[@LeThayMann]

When they’re talking about him in the outfield they’re comparing the WAR he would compile as a RF instead of DH

[@seekthao]

@@LeThayMann ………Um I know. I’m talking about as a whole and that the WAR algorithm needs to be changed because it doesn’t truly accommodate a 2-way player. Ohtani has opened that door and it’s now possible we will see others come up in the future, though it may not be many.

[@panner11]

They claimed that, but that isn't actually true. "Can’t tell me an outfielder scratching his ass in the outfield is more valuable than an ace pitcher" they can't tell you because it isn't true. Shohei had like 6 WAR from being an ace pitcher in 2022. He only loses like 1 WAR for not being an outfielder. I do think there is some undervaluing with the roster spot for 2 way players, but outfield defense is not more valuable than pitching according to WAR. That's misleading phrasing.

[@RunForPeace-hk1cu]

@@LeThayMann a 2way players should have not negative WAR on defense .. .when the player also pitches. I don't see pitchers getting negative WAR because they don't play field.

[@tn00777479]

Arron Judge robs like 12 homers per season. Ohtani strikes out like 200 batters per season. 1 strikes out = 1 robbed homer = 1 out

[@karlmckinnell2635]

If Shohei played one or two games in right field the internet may not survive 😂.

[@manciti4709]

WAR is working against the greatness of ohtani...so it's not a completely accurate measurement of a player's value

[@sweatyraider7241]

The dude can rank 4th in the CY young and WAR stats wouldn't even matter

[@cjyoung4080]

outfielder... spends 98% of the time hoping to see some action. 1% catching routine flyballs. .5% having to toss the ball to the base. .5% doing something that elevates their heart rate

[@noname-dk7ri]

I would also like to see Ohtani in right field. He has options and could have a longer career than everyone expects.

[@randomperson99895]

Honestly baseball needs new stats for Ohtani

[@maxairjordan1]

Shotei Ohanni

[@BC-th3mx]

Shoe-hi Ohtani

[@wbaldwin666]

You aren't paying attention carrabis, a pitcher IS defending while striking ppl out and subtracting any defensive play that could have been. He is so much more valuable at DH between pitching.

[@panner11]

War does account for this. He gets plenty of pitching war which is defensive war.

[@brianchar-bow3273]

The 2-way player is highly consuming for the player. It is detrimental to the player, as it works toward shortening his longevity as a player. However, from the team's perspective, if a 2-way player can function as well as Otani, they can strengthen their pitching and hitting core with only one reinforcement at the same time. Also, if a player is sluggish in either pitching or hitting, he can still be used as a player in the other role, and the short time period of players due to attrition will also promote player turnover. In these two ways, a 2-way player is a managerially efficient and risk-averse reinforcement. However, this is conditional on the emergence of a large number of candidates for talent on the same level as Otani. I wonder if it would be possible in the United States. I wonder how many players from the U.S. will choose the hard challenge of being a 2-way player, even if it means cutting back on their own life time as a player for the rest of their lives. Because Otani was raised in a Japanese culture where stoicism is the value, I believe that he chose to take on the challenge of an unprecedented goal that would be difficult for anyone to achieve, not because of personal gain or loss. I believe that he is facing up to the challenge of an unattainable goal because he sees the high value of his once-in-a-lifetime life. I wonder if there are people in the U.S. who think like him.

[@omgbygollywow]

Can anyone explain how WAR is calculated? Seems like a bogus metric.

[@allstar856]

Ohtani played right field full time in Japan for the Ham Fighters and not the DH position so the comments that Ohtani wouldn't be as effective as a pitcher if he played the outfield doesn't ring true

[@AustinMcAndrew]

Ohtani wasn't doing what he is doing rn while he was in Japan lmao

[@upsych1042]

​@@AustinMcAndrewHe actually wants to play OF and even asked their GM if he could do it but the Angels won't allow him.

[@k.p9810]

まだないのよ。こうゆう選手が今までいなかったから、翔平のようなプレイスタイルの選手に対する計算方法がまだ存在しないのよね。

[@DW-op7ly]

Yup that pitching war is too low

[@r7calvin]

The argument seems to be: "we can still correctly valuate Ohtani's contributions to his team despite this misleading stat" vs. "does this stat truly convey what it's often used for, and if not, shouldn't we adjust the algorithm so it's less misleading?" Creating new stats to improve usefulness is not that uncommon. E.g. Fujita scale vs Enhanced Fujita scale, BA vs OPS.

[@panner11]

Except the stat isn't misleading. It's just people misunderstand what it measures, like the guys in this podcast. It measures value "above replacement", people often forget about the above replacement. It's not measuring how good a player is or how much he contributes, it measures contribution above the replacement player. 0 war isn't zero value. 0 war is replacement value which has some value. Ohtani is obviously the best player and the most overall valuable, which war shows. But war isn't measuring pure value. It's replacement value, which is why negative war and dh penalty exists.

[@noname-dk7ri]

please time stamp

[@RunForPeace-hk1cu]

You can't compare athletes from 100yrs ago to today's athletes. It's absurd. Babe played against plumbers and carpenters ... Ohtani plays against top elite baseball players making millions in salary and all they do is eat sleep baseball. Comically stupid comparison. Ohtani is a superior version of babe in every way. Including professionalism. The end.