Shogun 2 | Top 5 Units!

[@bravomike4734]

I knew I wouldn't be disappointed with this vid because your opinions and preferred strategy differs from other Shogun 2 players so drastically that while although there are still some commonalities with others' choices, yours' is still more unique than their top 10 or top 5 shogun 2 best units vids which are at best a parrot copy of each other independently. Also, could you try to make a vid where you could maybe use matchlock ashigaru like 25-75% / 3:1 ratio of matchlock ashigaru where 75% has ranked fire / volley fire enabled but since they can't generally start firing fast enough, the remaining 25% matchlock ashigaru acts as a shield / protection to buy them more time to finally get shooting in ranked fire mode. Or alternatively, use the yari ashigaru or etc as a shield instead and do a mirrored custom match with one match having ranked fire off for all matchlock ashigaru and second match having ranked fire on for all matchlock ashigaru to see which is better. Because according to my matchlock samurai vs matchlock ashigaru 1 vs 1 custom battle test, ranked fire was better for the ashigaru. The Samurai have such little numbers compared to ashigaru, the ranked fire doesn't make much of a difference in combination to their better accuracy.

[@bravomike4734]

Also, how to disengage the nodachi safely to charge again?

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

​@@bravomike4734 use guard mode + spam movement orders. Use cavalry or other infantry to intercept the chasing unit -> charge back in. You could also try using 2 no-dachi's in tandem, charge one in, pull it out and then charge the second, repeat.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

Thanks man! Yeah I did my best to base this objectively in how well the units function on Legendary. Too many people have the misconception that Katana Samurai are better than No-dachi, and that guns are useless in field battles. Light cavalry are by far the most cost effective of cavalry and good for most scenarios. I'm hoping to dispel these misconceptions with these videos. I have a lot of videos on the to-do list, and I'll add your matchlock suggestion to the list. Also if you're not in the discord, do come in! I've gotten quite a few ideas for this channel from there, and we'll hopefully host tournaments sometime in the future.

[@bravomike4734]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 Ah I see. I always try to join the least discord servers possible due to message oversaturation so joining discord always seem to fly over my head. Also, I was asking about the disengaging part because no what I try to do, some amount of soldiers always gets left behind to die due to being stuck in melee when disengaging while the rest of the formation can run and retreat freely.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

@@bravomike4734 yeah youll just have to keep clicking, some men will get struck in the back and die but it's worth losing 5-7 men so you can charge and kill 40.

[@flaggy185]

"what's good about the matchlock ashigaru" PIKE AND SHOT

[@chitaumoua2396]

I wonder why the Portugese Terico didn't make the list, since as the Otomo you have a Nanban trade port at the start, and it cost 4000 gold to upgrade it to a Nanban Quarter. Dont forget to mention they have the range stats of the matchlock hero unit but the melee stats of Katana samurai. They need a powder maker and the Quarter to recruit, and you can recruit as many as you like.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

In battle they are one of the best units but I opted not to include faction-specific units here. The list wouldn't be as interesting since everyone knows how good they are, Also 4K money for the Quarter is no small sum especially early game, and the fact that you can only build 1 limits their usability in late game when you've pushed far away.

[@L0gin951]

True, lack of Tercios mentioning is definietly shamefur dispray.

[@lolasdm6959]

It's actually better if you move that nanban quarter to Bizen and get max accuracy.

[@yeiji4315]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 make bungo rebel, and you can now build a second nanban quarter, and make the new nanban quarter city rebel too, so you can build a third one, and so on! Unlimited Tercos

[@flaggy185]

You can only have 3 i believe and also, if im being honest (My opinion), arent really fun to use

[@kaijuslayer3334]

I would disagree with putting Light Cav in instead of Yari Cav. There is virtually no benefit to them compared to Yari Cav besides quicker access and slightly cheaper. Even their numbers are smaller. But Light Cav still require a building to make unlike other ashigaru tier units, so they don’t have as much advantage in terms of ease of access.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

Yari Cavalry require a whole 2nd building slot and also take 2 turns to recruit (this one matters a lot). Light cavalry cannot be beat for cost-effectiveness. They are 80% as good as Yari Cavalry while being far, far more convenient to field.

[@kaijuslayer3334]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 That turn drawback is the same for most samurai tier units. The problem is many clans start with a Yari drill yard or stables, allowing the other building to be built very quickly. And plus, you will naturally be building both buildings in your cavalry recruitment town. Making Yari cavalry one of the faster good samurai tier units you can get. And once you have Yari cavalry instead of trying to field just light cavalry, you have a massive advantage in the early game as most clans can’t ever win a cavalry skirmish even if they have tons of light cavalry due to Yari cav’s insane anti cavalry potential. Also doesn’t help that Light Cav’s main use of fighting other cavalry is made weak in even just the mid game as even katana cavalry can beat them in a equal fight. While Yari cav can beat them without breaking a sweat. Light Cav’s main use to me always seemed like just something to hold you over in terms of cavalry, and once you get Yari cav, they are kind of thrown to the side for the entire gamethrough. Especially as they lack the benefits of other ashigaru types compared to their samurai equivalents, as they have a smaller unit size then Yari Cav, and still require a building to be made instead of being able to be recruited anywhere. Unlike units like Yari ashigaru that stay useful.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

If you're using Light Cavalry or Yari Cavalry to fight other cavalry, you are doing it wrong (unless it's the general). Cavalry are too expensive to be used in that manner, Yari Ashigaru/Samurai should be supporting your cavalry and dispatching any roaming enemy cavalry. Cavalry are first and foremost morale breakers against infantry. And that extra cavalry building will be in competing with a sword dojo, as Katana Samurai are much more useful on the whole than Yari Cavalry (also there is no Katana Ashigaru for most factions). If you opt for a spear dojo over katana dojo, you are choosing to improve a unit you already have access to (cavalry) while completely forgoing another type (swords). Like it or not the game is heavily geared towards quick expansion over developing provinces; higher-tiered cavalry are unfortunately much less convenient to use or readily available than their light counterparts, who will be gaining experience quickly as cavalry typically have the highest kill counts.

[@kaijuslayer3334]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 Maybe for Light Cavalry it’s too expensive, but Yari Cavalry can do it very easily. They serve a great purpose of taking out the threat of the enemy’s cavalry and ruling the flanks of the battle so both your infantry and own cavalry attacks can go by unhindered. It’s not easy to try harassing your enemy’s infantry with cavalry when they still have 8 stacks of light cavalry. Also katana cavalry? More useful then Yari cavalry? That’s a new one. You’re like the opposite of MrSmartDonkey with these takes. I would argue katana cavalry are still held back by being vulnerable to most other types of cavalry and also being slower then most. Especially with how much polearms dominate Shogun 2, a cavalry that is useful in prolonged melee is a bit situational. They work well I think only if in conjunction with Yari cavalry. Yari cavalry to clear the enemy’s cavalry and then focus on weaker units prone to routing during a charge, and katana cavalry coming in after the cavalry is cleared to mess up the more tanky samurai units. The only way I could imagine using just katana cavalry is to either avoid your enemy’s cavalry and just let them on your flanks, or to play them really close to your main army. Which in that case, why not just use nodachi samurai and skip the whole cavalry part all together? Honestly though dude, I think the main reason we’re disagreeing is we use cavalry differently. Given how you described your cavalry being supported by your main army and away from the enemy’s own cavalry, that sounds like to me you play your cavalry a bit more defensively and a bit less of a active role in your armies. Which makes sense, you seem to only run 1-3 cavalry in every battle in this video. Me especially with the Takeda, I like a larger force of cavalry and sending them far ahead to wipe out their cavalry and maybe a general or two, harass and kite the enemy around, and then once the tired and damaged army reaches my main force, my cavalry then takes the distraction of the two armies colliding to charge at any vulnerable archers or melee units. So in that sense, I like to use them as a force that is independent to a extent from my main army. As such, I value Yari cavalry in their speed and stamina, and being able to defend themselves by wiping out any cavalry in those initial skirmishes on the flank. They make up the majority and then I usually have a pair of katana cavalry to back them up once the cavalry is cleared.

[@maxpoke309]

I have a bit of disagreement with your opinion that no-dachi samurai is the top 5. I agree that they are good for charge but their melee defense is very very weak. If you can't put them out early or don't pay attention to them for a bit, they can take great damage from the enemy. Also, their armor is so weak, they can be hurt by the enemy's bow infantry. I think naginata monk or naginata samurai is a bit better than no-dachi samurai. Their charge and running speed is not very good but they have a good balance between attack and melee defense. And with +5 charge bonus from proving grounds, they are very good.

[@vitorcaetano9988]

Naginata monk > naginata samurai in my humble opinion. Naginata samurai can get "even combat" with yari ashigaru, its not even funny

[@maxpoke309]

@@vitorcaetano9988 Hmm what is "even combat"? I don't understand what you mean. Is "naginata samurai is as good as yari ashigaru"?

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

I based this off of the mileage you'll get when playing for the highest margins. Sure, No-dachi Samurai are more micro-intensive than Katana's or Naginata, but the better you get at the game, the more returns No-dachi will give you. Most damage is done on the charge in general, the game is designed in a way that high charge-bonus units will excel. Katana Samurai won't do very well either if you leave them unattended, and in fact they aren't very good in a melee on level ground. Naginata Samurai are actually one of the weaker units overall. They're fine as a training wheels unit but as you improve you'll quickly hit a ceiling with them. Their kill rate is just too low for them to be a good unit, and they still lose to swords anyway. It was a toss up between Naginata Monks and No-dachi; I went with No-dachi because the Monks are very reliant on their Warcry ability which you'll only get to use once most of the time.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

@@maxpoke309 he means the status "combat even" when hovering your mouse over a unit

[@vitorcaetano9988]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 I'm sorry, thats exactly what I actually meant, the "combat even" status.

[@kinigarawakashikuhah]

You should also add Kysho ninja too. I usually get two of them and place them behind matchlocks. They protect my matchlocks before an enemy can get close and if they do get close enough I can just draw back the matchlocks and let ninjas engage in close combat. Sure, you need mods to fix their broken states but it's totally worth it.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

Kisho Ninja are a hit-and-miss unit, either they win you the battle by killing the general or causing a morale shock with bombs, or they get mowed down by cavalry before they can do anything. They are amazing in siege assaults, though.

[@kinigarawakashikuhah]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 true, that is why I tried to keep them near by Ashigaru, In case of cav charge. It's micro intensive, drawing back the force, toggle of fire at will button on ninja's, and placing matchlocks and ninja at enemy flank.

[@duckterdoland3881]

Have you done a simular video on fall of the samurai? Great channel by the way

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

unfortunately no. Though i should get around to making more of these, running a channel on my own ain't so easy hehe

[@duckterdoland3881]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 UwU

[@Druguaer12345]

I'd love to play against your formations. Weak

[@w0lf667]

remove the accuracy penalty and the mangonels could be in the list

[@bravomike4734]

Yeah man, or they could have made it so that the mangonels had full accuracy to destroy buildings but not for sniping units or generals. Or just prevent the manual targeting of infantry units and just target the ground below infantry. Since the generals are on horses, they'll just run away on first fire bomb hit and the manogonels will continue hitting the empty ground until you manually retarget again.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

@@bravomike4734 They should have just nerfed them in MP but leave them alone in SP, like they did with Naginata Monks. European Cannons are still decent for sniping, at least.

[@Kirbs69]

Imagine if Cavs have 2 HP... 50/50 chance that they either die or the horse dies

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

That would be interesting. Also, interestingly cavalry units have 2 separate stamina values, one for the horses and one for the riders. Dismounting them will give you a fresh infantry unit.

[@Kirbs69]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 um... Is that sarcasm or satire? Isn't that already a thing?

[@janbazuine6636]

why are fire rockets here? by the time you get them your campaign should already be over. Sure theyre a strong unit but theyre not that strong.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

Their made late game because they are that good. Completely nullifies enemy archers and gives control of the battlefield.

[@janbazuine6636]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 yeah but its not worth it. Unless you completely ignore other tech trees you're not getting this unite before turn 80, and at that point you basically won already

[@vitorcaetano9988]

Dude, how can you get armor 2 combined with melee attack 2? Nice video btw

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

One from a blacksmith and the other from an encampment upgrade

[@bravomike4734]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 Does it make sense to upgrade attack at all in Nodachi instead of full armour (master blacksmith+armour encampment)? Because they already have very high melee attack skill which is 14 and with 28 charge bonus, it adds 28 to 14 making 32 melee attack skill for the charge. Melee defense skill may be 1 but while charging, I speculate it would be 29 melee defense (assuming it works the same way as bonus damage to cavalry, with 4+20 melee attack so 24, but with only 3 melee defense. It doesn't make sense how the yari ashigaru takes almost no losses at all so I assume it must be 3+20, 23 melee defense when fighting cavalry). So, imo I don't think it makes sense to upgrade melee stats at all for nodachi if we are cycle charging.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

@@bravomike4734 it doesn't make sense percentage wise. 4 armor vs 2 has more of a difference, and experience will improve melee stats anyway.

[@Laevatheinn]

Do you have a video on how to deal with bowmen? Especially on siege attack?

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

I don't have a dedicated video for that I'm afraid, but I do have plenty of let's play and livestream VOD's where you might find something. In short, on a siege assault the AI will place its archers facing the "highest priority target", which is usually the part of your army that has the general. You can get around them with 2 clusters, one to pin the archers on one section on the wall (stay out of range), and the other storms the unguarded sections.

[@Laevatheinn]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 what are the best units to pin them down with (along with a general with them out of range)? Late game if I have fire rockets I’ll use that and generally demolish bowmen and the castle towers and walls but it takes way too long to unlock them.

[@Laevatheinn]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 thanks for the help!

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

@@Laevatheinn Since your cavalry aren't very useful in a siege assault they're a good choice for an anchor. If there are no enemy reinforcements you can take your time managing units between the groups to figure out how much is "enough" for the archers.

[@sayakamiki2427]

Are you using Darthmod in this video? Your game looks so nice, i've installed the HD mods and stuff but it doesn't look as good as yours.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

no mods used here i believe

[@janbazuine6636]

what about yari cav? Relatively easy to get and can solo battles

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

Light cavalry will suffice for most encounters.

[@janbazuine6636]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 No it wont, light cav almost lose to bow samurai

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

@janbazuine6636 yari cavalry also take massive losses vs bow samurai. Charging bow samurai with *any* cavalry in open terrain is a bad idea. Yari ashigaru will be doing most of the fighting anyway. I almost never use my light cavalry outside of chasing routing units.

[@janbazuine6636]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 if you get a good rear charge in they dont. Light cavalry can only kill generals and persue routing units (maybe double or triple team some archers occasionally). Yari cavalry can take out a enemy cav (isolate and 2v1), take out archers and deliver devastating rear charges.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

Why would i need yari cav to fight enemy cav when ashigaru can do that Why do i need to rear charge bow samurai when i can obliterate them with a walking yari wall to the face (cheaper and completely expendable)

[@andreacolella8711]

is the oda long yari ashigaru worst then the yari ashigaru?

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

Long Yari Ashigaru are much better, one of the best infantry units, but I chose to disqualify DLC units since those would be obvious and some people don't own them.

[@caelandenning2648]

Finally respect om my gun boys

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

They deserve it after getting dunked on for a decade lol

[@caelandenning2648]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 exactly they're just so much fun

[@caelandenning2648]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 respect to smart donkey but mans misses when It comes to guns in shogun

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

@@caelandenning2648 He's not very good at the game, way too passive and doesn't use units to their full potential.

[@caelandenning2648]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 yeah probably so