Shogun (2024) │ "Wretched Land" scene │ Episode 1 Ending

[@Daviddd3006]

This gives the good old Assassin’s Creed opening vibe, god I miss those days….

[@devilpupbear09]

"May it never change, and may it never change us"

[@Daviddd3006]

Just checking in after AC Shadows dropped its trailer...yup, they're not beating Shogun in anyway possible.

[@patrickleary6444]

@@Daviddd3006 or ghost of tsushima, for that matter. they are SO late to the storyboard

[@ropii8876]

@@patrickleary6444 It's never too late to get into the game, but if Sucker Punch drops a "Ghost of tsushima 2" in the Sengoku Jidai era, with an even bigger map, different protagonist and a similarly fantastic story, then it certainly will beat Shadows. For now? I would say we didn't even see anything from Shadows apart from the trailers and Gameplay showcase, so it might be very good, honestly i think its just a missed opportunity by Ubisoft that they didn't bring in the "3 Protagonist" system with this game, 1 Japanese "Jin" like samurai, who can go both ways, then the African Samurai Yasuke, who is basically a tank, and then Naoe who is almost entirely stealth. Big miss... And that is a part why they get so much hate... If they would just give a bit more time to themselves to think about it, like Rockstar Game does ( not that long tho ), then they could make Legendary games and not controversial ones.

[@andrewramadhanar]

My goodness you are absolutely correct. And look how Ubisoft want to make correctness in current AC title with woke agenda

[@mnk9073]

I need more Rodriguez, dude was a real one.

[@Visigothicwarrior]

Rodrigues

[@mnk9073]

@@Visigothicwarrior Isn't he a Spaniard though who just sails for the Portuguese?

[@imperialguardsman9867]

@@mnk9073 He is they change from Book and old Series where he was Portuguese. Well I guess Crowns were united back in this point in History so Spaniards working for Portugal or Portuguese working for Spain wouldn't be wrong.

[@firingallcylinders2949]

He's funny without even trying to be

[@assassinbob2986]

He was way nicer in the books. He never pulled a gun on this guy and betrayed him.

[@hfar_in_the_sky]

"I won't die in this wretched land!" He's going to spend the rest of his days in Japan whether he wants to or not, isn't he?

[@Gala-yp8nx]

The guy who Blackthorne is based on spent the rest of his life in Japan. Became a high ranking official in the Tokugawa shogunate and had a family. Still has descendants living in Japan.

[@Feefa99]

Spoiler!

[@Paurames]

@@Feefa99 It called history, bro. You can access this information by reading.

[@rust9542]

​@@Paurameswait till he finds out Japan actually exists

[@threenumbnuts]

@@rust9542 I know the writers wanted to focus on the Cold War arc, but they didn't even bother to gradually change Japan's character. It immediately went from ultramilitaristic to never fighting in a war for 80 years. Main characters will ofc get written out in an ensemble cast that big, but least make an effort to keep it realistic.

[@elxaime]

"Every Japanese man has three hearts. One in his mouth for the world to know. Another in his chest, just for his friends. And a secret heart, buried deep where no one can find it, for his Waifu."

[@ValerieKnight-oj5sq]

fuck I hate weeb culture.

[@geoffreyherrick298]

💀

[@thanhvinhnguyento7069]

Lmao

[@viyunia]

this tv show is a masterpiece. it gives you a charge of emotions that you don't usually experience - even from the first minutes of the first episode..

[@j.dunlop8295]

Read Shogun almost 50 yrs ago, didn't come to realize it was absolutely based on an truly extraordinary real man, till decades later! His intelligence and adaptability changed Japan like few other foreigners! (Wikipedia, covers much of his life, and choices!)

[@joshportie]

Bad source of information. The catholic church can edit wikipedia without making a note that its been changed.

[@millionelectricvolts6117]

​@@joshportieyou can still check older versions of wiki pages

[@threenumbnuts]

@@joshportie 😂😂 version history is one of the easiest things for 3rd parties to audit lil homie, there's enough shady shit going on without imagining... Catholic-controlled Wikipedia?

[@Scapestoat]

@@joshportie Haha! That sounds like an interesting conspiracy theory! So, if anyone edits a wikipedia article, it creates a log. But somehow the catholic church is the only one with the ability to leave no logs? They're the wikipedia ninja? :D

[@zanaros2606]

His lord trusted him to take care of his son till he is old enough to be the ruler. He instead end up sieging their castle, and forcing both that son and his mother to commit sudoku, lol. (Talking about Tokugawa.) That's one bad point about him, failing his pledge to his lord.

[@jeffreyjackson5229]

I love the spaciousness of their rooms. Their example is exactly why residence is the same. Love it.

[@toratora824]

Viewers seem to be debating whether European civilization or Asian civilization is better. He just wants to use sarcasm to show how big the world is to those who think they are number one.

[@Mein_Kek]

Of course europe is better

[@KoOkiEzRoCkz]

Viewers also missed that every single character in Ep1 called the other person a barbarian whilst acting exactly the same as the other.

[@jonsangels2465]

​@meinkek7896 Not really, both civilizations are equally great and horrible. Still, I heavily appreciate your boldness, not enough of that these days. Your comment gave a much needed chuckle!

[@Mein_Kek]

@@jonsangels2465 no. Europe is better. You are using a technology by white man as you type this text. Asians dont have soul.

[@Philip7710]

@@KoOkiEzRoCkzHow did John act like the rest of them? He was openly disgusted by the japanese lack of value for human life. Remember when they killed his gardener?

[@grendizer45]

this scene is endless ... a masterpiece

[@calwells5612]

Brilliant speech, bolstered extremely well by the musical score, editing, etc. What a crazy great atmosphere they achieved!

[@Kaplan20]

This is one of my favourite scenes from the show. The end scene perfectly juxtaposes the English Pilots assumption of the Japanese being some simpleton and the outro showing in their own way the Japanese were extremely sophisticated people with a very complex but alien society.

[@flamingbabygames]

Was initially so pissed at Rodriguez for giving him up, but it makes sense with him torching settlements which I'd assume infludes slaughtering innocents. And in the end, he doesnt sink him to repay him for saving him, so it all works out

[@JoaoSantos_88]

*Rodrigues

[@joshportie]

This part is a bit of catholic hollywood revision. When you attack a jesuit mission its all military. There are no innocents except perhaps their slaves as they ran the slave trade.

[@albernosman2929]

​@@JoaoSantos_88 In spanish is Rodríguez, it means son of Rodrigo

[@Mogumike]

I see people here discussing the state of Japan back then, and if it was worthy of this praise, but I do not think that's the point of this scene. It's not about Japan, but about people like Rodrigues. For a spaniard like him, that probably spent a good part of his life being dragged into the constant european conflict, Japan likely represented a way out. A society secluded and alien, unlike any other he knew. He is basically an early japanophile, a barbarian seeking escapism from his previous life. And it also shows that he is a man of conviction, unlike other europeans in Japan that are fuelled mostly by greed, something that Blackthorne makes use of at the climax of the third episode.

[@Bayard1503]

The thing is... the European view of superiority had nothing to do with actual degree of civilization, or size of cities, it was a lot of greed involved. This is what pushed these sailors or conquistadors so far. Seeing the beauty and size of Tenochtitlan did not stop Cortes from pillaging it.

[@tm5123]

"When the Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan was consecrated in 1487 the Aztecs recorded that 84,000 people were slaughtered in four days." Not sure if this was a civilization that even deserved to continue, the conquistadors might've done the area a favor.

[@Tibzanater]

What are you on about, of course it was due to the degree of civilization, hence why there was a difference in the usage of the term savage/barbarian depending on the nation and culture of the people they came across with. Example, the difference in regards towards China/Japan culture than that of Incas/Aztecs. There's also the Christianity superiority complex but that is inherent to every religion, especially in those times of religious turmoil. Right cause greed is only a European thing, no Aztec nor Japanese were fueled by such desire. Plus say what you want through our modern lens of "pillaging is bad" but it's pretty much standard pratice to pillage a city of its wealth regardless of its size and and so called beauty which I doubt the Spanish saw it so. Just ask Constantinople or Bagdad.

[@flamingbabygames]

​@@TibzanaterThe conquistadors themselves were mostly driven by greed and glory. Cortez went on an illegal mission and the governor was going to hang him until he ambushed his men and promised them riches to join him instead. The Incas were taken out when his cousin literally just wanted to outdo him and be more famous. His I believe was approved using religion as a pretext. No one is saying only Europeans are greedy. Hell, this very show has Yabushige who is a greedy ass slimeball. The Aztecs and Incans were able to be toppled so easily largely do to their own greedy leaders who created a lot of enemies and made stupid decisions thinking they could benefit from the European presence.

[@Tibzanater]

​@@flamingbabygames Anyone that goes to war or on a far far away perilous expedition into the unknown is mostly doing it for greed and glory that could come of it, and that's regardless of their origin, culture or what not. The problem is he bases his whole argument on the fact that ''European superiority complex comes from greed''. A superiority complex comes from how you view yourself compared to others - not by your desire.

[@flamingbabygames]

@@Tibzanater Ah, I get what you're saying now. Agreed, have a good one.

[@brightsuperstition]

Rodrigues isn't saying Japan is better than Europe. The context of this scene (to remind all the butthurt critics here, assuming they even watched the episode *at all*) is that Blackthorne came into Japan with a view of it as a brutish, backwards and primitive country. Throughout the episode, Blackthorne refers to Japan as a "dark land". What Rodrigues is trying to tell Blackthorne by beckoning him to go outside and see Osaka Harbor is that it's not the primitive country he's been led to believe it is. The reason why Rodrigues chastises Blackthorne is because the latter (like most Europeans at the time, and even some to this day, if some of the hilariously ignorant, borderline racist and Eurocentric comments here are to be believed) mistakenly thinks of Europe as the only place with any real civilization that isn't savage and barbaric.

[@enekaitzteixeira7010]

You criticize comments that you seem you don't even understand.

[@Mein_Kek]

seeing what japanese do in ww2 i still think of them as lesser.

[@chad8519]

When this scene came up, i knew we'd be watching something special

[@davidbroski8362]

This scene alone put a huge smile on my face. I knew it was going to be incredible.

[@davecrupel2817]

The 3 heart thing is absolutely true. 1 I "save face" with. 1 I save for those i trust most. And 1 i keep for myself and a very _very_ select few.

[@id9504]

"And who knows, maybe-maybe fate brought you here for a reason" - I don't really believe in fate or karma, but if you've read about the real Anjin, one has to wonder if him setting foot in Japan was indeed karma at work. William was among the very few survivors on his ship, he was the one with the exact knowledge Tokugawa needed at that exact time, who himself actually had wisdom and foresight to recognize it, and William had the right type of character and enought curiosity to learn and adopt Japanese language and way of life and make it his new home, completely altering the course of Japanese history. Both Tokugawa and Anjin were one in a million kind of people and for some reason their roads crossed. Might be that karma brought them together because they were destined to meet, become friends and work together to achieve great things.

[@mrt4937]

I love this scene. An excellent finish to an amazing episode. I was hooked and breathless watching this part. Been forever since id felt gripped by a show!

[@chris2004x]

i get emotional every time i watch this scene, duuno why, dont need to know why.

[@jakewolf079]

Still relevant today, you take one look at any major city in Japan (Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto etc.) and then compare it to any city in US, and you see a big difference.

[@AverageAlien]

one is homogenous and the other is not. A city in a homogenous European country like Switzerland or Norway will show the same thing, so your argument holds no weight. The US is only something like 60% white

Relevant how when US cities have a higher population than the Japanese ones you mentioned

[@kristijanmadhukar516]

I could have sworn the US was in America and not Europe.

[@sullivandmitry1416]

Japan was an odd place but it was so unique. It’s almost severe isolation of the world led it to be a feudal society for 90% of its lifespan and only rarely did it change. Like a time capsule.

[@michaelmartin9022]

Britain should have done the same. Let the frogs have a worldwide empire. Let the frogs hold it ;) We'll just sit here with our blast furnaces and steam engines...

[@angelfan16]

So, like most other places before white people showed up?

[@r.a1301]

​@@michaelmartin9022Britain had an empire before it developed the steam engine lol

[@michaelmartin9022]

@@r.a1301 Precisely, sit there with jealously-guarded technology and enrich ourselves by selling it's products and our second-best to the rest of the world, both the empire builders and the rebellions against them ;)

[@barneydenstad2148]

Midvards there was the scene of seppuko of Fujis husband and child, with the second standing and preparing to strike. But such was usually done outside, especielly if its was as a punishment. So, I understand they wished to show off the full ritual, but it was an unrealistic scene.

[@Jbharley72]

Thats not true at all. While yes in most cases Seppuku or Harakiri was traditionally done outside but if you were a high ranking samurai or you were high born and the crime you committed was not in the public eye then death by Seppuku could be committed indoors surrounded by your own people. It was only possible because of the preparation that went into it before hand. like taking a long cold bath before your death so there would be a limited amount of blood flowing out of your body so imo in this case the depiction was accurate since he was high born and the crime he committed by interrupting the meeting was done in private and not in the public eye. In episode 5 you hear about the gardener taking his life and the whole village was in tears cause he was probably killed outside and in front of everybody to watch. If you google Seppuku you will see almost all ancient artwork depicts the act being committed indoors surrounded by very few people.

[@barneydenstad2148]

@@Jbharley72 sure, but you miss the whole point. Fuij´s hubby did ashamed himself, and wouldnt hardly be allowed to a privilegied seppuku. Really, I think in the book it was the eta, the executioners whom took him... So allowing him a normal seppuku was a mercy. While in the gardeners case, they made sure he was killed honorably, not by eta but by one of Torangas personal guards, "with a very sharp sword".

[@minhtue90]

@@Jbharley72 I'm not sure if killing the baby is necessary/required in real life, people do realize babies post no threat to them.

[@shetlandapache949]

Yeah in the book he and his son were both killed and buried as eta without the privilege of seppuku

[@Jbharley72]

@@barneydenstad2148 Remember Seppuku in Fuji's husbands case would have been done by himself and another samurai to regain his lost honor. Thats the whole point of Seppuku is when you're disgraced it allows you some sort of honor in death.

[@Bayan1905]

Hollywood, pay attention, because THIS is how you write a TV show.

[@KrivitskyM]

Gave me a major "Chaos is a ladder" vibe.

[@MegaZeta]

"Baby, maybe fate brought you here for a reason"

[@jeffreyjackson5229]

I love how he says, "Osaka."

[@AshPaddyM]

By the end of this episode, I knew I was watching something special. I know this is based on a book, but with something this good, surely there has to be another season?

[@crackerbarrelkid5540]

Now that's some dialogue!

[@grendizer45]

i always watch this even i play it in my car ... amazing

[@swiety1981]

my man, going on deck asked for his hands to be untied in front and tied behind his back

[@TheMrFu]

why would you cut it before the music drop

[@alfonsoromillo3083]

the actor who played rodrigues played the mayor in nolan’s dark knight series 🤯

[@jasoninnes572]

What kind of man yields power in a land like this... Class

[@datemasamune2904]

Was Osaka really that big back then?

[@projektkobra2247]

It was a serious town...yes. I lived there 8 years..The Castle grounds are enormous still, but they were even bigger back then...It was the seat of the Toyotomi clan.

[@Aih1616]

Time is around 1600 and population was around 400 thousand at this time so was a large city. London was around 200 thousand and Paris was 300 thousand so pretty amazing.

[@eodyn7]

@@Aih1616 Rome was over a million at the height of empire.

[@Aih1616]

@@eodyn7 hey kid we doing a competition here? 😂

[@alistelum404]

Osaka at the time was much larger than Edo. The notes of Korean envoys at the time also describe it as being larger and more glamorous than the capital of China. There is also a KZbin video that visualizes the population changes of cities around the world, so please check it out.

[@BingleFlimp]

I really like the relationship of cultures in this. In a vacuum the English hand Spanish would consider themselves totally different culturally. There relationship would be largely antagonistic. Their countries were at war. However here they are to foreigners in an even more foreign land. There a kind of queer brotherhood in this.

[@jeffreyjackson5229]

Even the man who schemes that you never see is seen by the eye that sees all and don't you forget it😉

[@Daniel-sr3fd]

What is the name of this track playing?

[@ZaimGamePlay]

three hearts

[@claudiuspseudonymus1369]

Fine depiction of OSAKA CASTLE in 1600s ...

[@stephenhornish2048]

Whats the issue?

[@claudiuspseudonymus1369]

@@stephenhornish2048 What issue? This is what OSAKA CASTLE really looked like in 1600s...

[@mysticdragon2101]

@@claudiuspseudonymus1369 I think he thought you were being sarcastic perhaps? 🤣

[@Batt-man]

@@mysticdragon2101I don’t see why he was just commenting on “OSAKA CASTLE” 😂

[@claudiuspseudonymus1369]

@@mysticdragon2101 I think he was being stupidly paranoid.

[@gregorygraham4117]

gotta love when people make broad proclamations on historical events based solely on a work of historical fiction, and tainted by contemporary, trendy notions.

[@Dumbledump]

Osaka was probably a sight to behold, but I doubt that a sailor like Blackthorne, (who would have visited places like London, Paris, Amsterdam, Lisbon, Rome, etc...) would have been very impressed.

[@MorallyDubiousFrog]

Blackthorne thought Japan was some distant barbarian shithole. Beholding Osaka, a city on par with the greatest of Europe, would be a shock to him.

[@BlondieYouTube]

0:21 that is the weakest sounded drum

[@AFGuidesHD]

I would heavily assume it's because the waters are calm and they are slowly coming into port. The whole point of the drum is to keep a tempo, with a light drum hit he's signalling to the rowers that they don't exactly need to row hard.

[@r.a1301]

​@@AFGuidesHDimagine casually just getting a reply from AFguides

[@DoctorXander]

Néstor Carbonell better win that guest actor emmy!

[@zaidanahnaf9431]

I just realized Rodriguez played the mayor in The Dark Knight

[@des6853]

Sick find!

[@rolling-roadkill]

He also played Batmanuel in the first live action version of The Tick. 😄

[@devinarthur6559]

0:02 0:06 0:10

[@Tom-rg2ex]

I can only hear Señior Senior Junior when he talks like this

[@ひなたのかぜ_2007]

Just like how the football march it is.

[@TheeNiteOwl]

This is ep 2.

[@Errearrea14]

whats being hinted is historically kinda untrue. the portuguese were more civilised than japan at the time and introduced them to clocks, firearms, advanced ships, western medicine, and even bread.

[@TheMartianMancumpster]

What game is this

[@AFGuidesHD]

Assassins Creed Shadows

[@thisprojectisretired1055]

Why is the lighting like that? It looks like someone's about to start selling them car insurance

[@stellabelishka5088]

❤❤❤❤❤❤ Love it

[@malgremor85]

I don't know about the rest of it, but the pistols are anachronistic...from at least 100yrs in the future from this time.

[@madronnie9725]

The pistols are one of the few things that bothered me, but I’m also a military history nerd and understand most people don’t care. They should’ve given them doglocks or wheellocks, but it’s not that big of a deal.

[@malgremor85]

@@madronnie9725 I'm old enough to remember that Hollywood first started to pay attention to historical accuracy in the 1970s. Before that, nobody cared if you had 1892 Winchesters in the Civil War, or buckles on pilgrim hats. From then on, movies have been ever keener on authenticity, so that something like those pistols really stands out to us today, like a turd in a snowbank.

[@AFGuidesHD]

"at least 100 years" well, there were flintlocks during the English civil war in the 1640s.

[@madronnie9725]

@@AFGuidesHD not *these* flintlocks he’s using. These English Sea Service pistols didn’t enter the service until 1756. It really is a small detail though that I don’t think takes away from anything. The most likely pistols an Englishman like John would have in 1600 is an unreliable matchlock pistol, or the wheellock pistol which was very expensive and not very common outside of cavalry units. In reality having pistols at all would be unlikely because the most common gun by and large was still the matchlock musket. Pistols didn’t become very popular until a decade or two into the 17th Century.

[@jinchuriki7022]

❤

[@mrsupremegascon]

Yeah Japanese were superiors.... That would explain why Europeans copied Japan civilisation, and Europe really developed thanks to Japanese writing, engineering and teaching. Japan influence really put Europe out of the Middle age. Oh wait, no sorry, that was the other way around. I know it's forbidden for European/Westerner to be proud of their own civilization, but come on. The reason why Japanese developed while China didn't, is because when their diplomats toured Europe and America, they were so impressed by the level of technology, society and infrastructures Westerners had, that they called themselves "half barbarian" and did everything to westernize and learn from Europeans as much as they could. They were humble, hard working and it paid off. While China was still treating Europeans as barbarians and refused to learn from them, until it was too late.

[@DarkFenix2k5]

Well, the Japanese touring Europe and bringing back such reactions was very much a 19th century thing, they were absolutely in awe of the industrialised West and swiftly realised that they had been completely left behind as a civilisation. But yes, even in 1600 Europe had a lot to offer Japan, not the other way round. Modern Japan was built off what they learned from the West.

[@hotelmario510]

This is ahistorical nonsense and completely incongruous with the view of colonialism depicted in the show. It isn't saying "white Europeans are bad" or "Japan gained nothing from colonialism". It's saying that Europeans exploited Japan (and most of East Asia) for riches and power, extracting wealth from the lands they colonised and sending it back to Europe. A few piffling changes to Japanese society and culture, maybe even for the better, does not justify treating human beings as means to an end. You know, colonialism is bad no matter who does it! Japan learned a thing or two from the Europeans and in the twentieth century colonised Korea, parts of China, what is now Myanmar and Vietnam, and more! That wasn't okay, either! The point of the show is that *_exploiting human beings is a terrible thing to do_* and you would have to be pretty damn soulless to disagree with that!

[@mrsupremegascon]

@@hotelmario510 -1: Europeans never colonised Japan. -2: Everyone exploited everyone. 99% of Japanese were exploited by their lords. Being exploited by a local lord doesn't make it better. Colonialism is bad because conquering other countries is bad for modern Western standards. But colonialism wasn't bad due to exploitation. Exploitation was the norm for the entire world UNTIL colonialism came and spread liberalism.

[@libertylemonz7145]

@@hotelmario510 Japan colonized Korea, Okinawa, Hokkaido, and briefly Guam, Wake Island, and Hong Kong, the Philippines, Indonesia, Malaya, Singapore, and Burma. But do go on about exploitation as if Japan was somehow better than every other power that did so.

[@Exgrmbl]

@@libertylemonz7145 i wonder if this show has balls enough to show how they treated the Ainu? or would that be culturally insensitive?

[@jeffreyjackson5229]

The exhibition of the secret heart is what has gotten many a great man assassinated: King, X, Kennedy, Gandhi, Socrates, Apostle Paul, Jesus....

[@jaysherman5759]

BatManuel

[@Studmuffin001]

I wanna watch this show but I’m afraid that it’s some like game a thrones politics based show, is it a lot of drama and stuff like GOT or is it more action……

[@ulture]

It is absolutely about politics, and culture, history, religion, philosophy.... there is 'action', and there will probably be more in the remaining episodes (depending on how much we see of the Battle of Sekigahara), but the show leans more towards realism. It's much better than Game of Thrones (which was nowhere near as good as the ASOIAF books), but it's not a Marvel movie. There will be blood, but there will not be superpowers.

[@92Adzy]

This is a top tier show

[@GrantH2606]

@@ulture The average viewer will not find this show anywhere near as good as GoT

[@ulture]

@@GrantH2606 you mean you didn't think it was as good as GoT

[@kretininlk]

It's more like Crown, but without cool actors, acting, and storyline. If you aren't huge fan of Japan history, it's a total waste of time. See like fans are hyping this moment where Osaka is just a bad cgi picture of a huge village

[@zsedcftglkjh]

Despite the special effects, it still manages to look cheaper than the 80s version...and the dialogue is a toddler's dribble compared to the original, let alone the book.

[@rolling-roadkill]

I actually like this version as well and like the fact that they've made changes from the book and the earlier series. That way it becomes its own entity of sorts. Some things tick me off though when they've made weird choices (his orders concerning the pheasant is one that really stood out as plain dumb on his part) but on the whole I really like it. I have the book and the old version on DVD. I'll probably buy this one as well so I can rewatch it anytime. 😄

[@Balinux756]

I don't mean to debate him, but it doesn't look all that impressive compared to some western cities at the time. Even in ancient times.

[@alexanderb5726]

Alright I'm sorry but this irks me. They just had to go the whole historically incorrect theme of "ooh behold Osaka and tell me if you really think we are the height of civilization". Europeans were not awe-inspired by Osaka. And personally I can see the city clearly here and can safely say it had nothing against the European capitals of the time. Rome, Paris, London, Vienna, if we're gonna talk inspiring sights then the architecture, art, design and scope of these cities were far more grandiose and intricate, don't believe me? Just take a look at European churches alone from this period. Historically the opposite happened with the Japanese realising how far behind technologically and societally they were to the the West, and western custom, fashion and especially weapons became extremely coveted and only increased in prevalence since the first decades of European contact when the Portoguese first introduced firearms, which had all Japanese warlords enthralled. But of course, this can't be portrayed in media because if it was, regardless if it is completely true, it'd be "racism" and Europeans would be accused of thinking themselves superior. Thought this would be a cool series about Japan's undercovered period of civil war, but if it's going the pc-pandering route I'm not interested.

[@fida6358]

When I first watched this scene I was like, umm am I supposed to be impressed cuz from the cinematography it looks small and mostly just trees?

[@randomelite4562]

It’s supposed to be compared to contempoary European cities, not modern cities…

[@dr.badass702]

They should have added a monorail

[@Fairenough642]

@@randomelite4562 which where bigger and better? There is a reason they sailed all the way too japan too trade and not the other way around

[@robertlaidlaw4592]

@@dr.badass702yes thats the only way you know its an impressive city.

[@randomelite4562]

@@Fairenough642 they weren’t bigger or better (most of them at least) lmao. London had a population of 200,000 in 1600. Osaka had 220,000 (which wasn’t even the largest city in Japan). Paris, the largest city in Europe at the time, had about 300~ thousand. Kyoto and Tokyo both had about that number or more. Also what does that even mean lmao? The population of the cities of either region didn’t play much into why Europeans wanted access to Japanese markets

[@gargoyles9999]

America would like to have a word

[@Deargodwhat]

What America? It's the 1600s. Lmao.

[@arsy9753]

​@@Deargodwhat Illiterate comment lol don't bother replying to him

[@Havyng25]

Typical murican

[@marcuslegion3654]

Did you just compare Europe to Japan? One is empire the other a waring state about 300 years in the past....

[@toratora824]

It's a sarcastic response to people who think they're number one. I'm not just comparing.

[@madronnie9725]

It’s funny that you’re trying to make Europe a monolith when it was also very much a continent full of warring states at this time, and would be for another 350 years until the end of WW2…

[@OsirusHandle]

what? what "european" empire lol

[@marcuslegion3654]

@@toratora824 you would compare Japan in the 16th century to France Spain or Italy? Are you serious? At the time of the Renaissance. The difference in just technology is in hundreds if not a thousand years difference.

[@marcuslegion3654]

@@OsirusHandle even if you compared to the Roman empire. I'm saying 16th century Japan versus 0 century Rome Rome would be better. That is a difference of 1,600 years

[@jeffreyjackson5229]

Insofar as an established civilization, Japan, China, and etc. we're eons ahead of Europe. Insofar as foundational knowledge, there is nothing Europe didn't get from somewhere else.

[@DarkFenix2k5]

Eons ahead? Hardly. The Far Eastern civilisations had established themselves into something resembling stability far earlier than Europe, but by 1600 we're in the Renaissance period, Europe already effectively rules the world by this point, and that state of affairs only solidifies further for something like the following 300 years.

[@Fairenough642]

@@DarkFenix2k5 stability in the east? Japan had like a what 150 year long civil war not long ago and china....is china. I mean its hard to say cause europe had places full of civil war and places less so but it would not be until around the 18th and 19th century but even then ww1 and ww2.... some say we are still not stably lol just more politics then war

[@alexanderb5726]

@@DarkFenix2k5 Yeah I mean, the Japanese had had constant, and I mean *constant* warfare between clans, shoguns and other factions for centuries. Saying they had stability up to this point is massively incorrect. If that had been the case they would've been on the list for longest lasting peace due to that stability, but it is the Pax Romana and Pax Britannica who tops those lists.

[@DarkFenix2k5]

@@alexanderb5726 Lords fighting over who gets to sit in the big boy chair is comparative stability, it doesn't involve any major cultural, ethnic, or societal upheavals. As a counterexample, take Britain, where the Romans, Saxons, Vikings, then Normans each invaded, colonised, and caused everything to be turned on its head repeatedly for a thousand years.

[@alexanderb5726]

@@DarkFenix2k5 Civil war is the opposite of stability in a country. Interstate war is unavoidable in the anarchic international system, but domestic stability is highly achievable with the right state mechanisms. So no I disagree with you heavily there.

[@dukejivetalker7541]

weeebs have always been a problem

[@jinchuriki7022]

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