Shogun | Season 1 Finale | TV Reaction | First Time Watching | A Dream Come True?

The fallout of Mariko's sacrifice comes to fruition... Was Crimson Sky a success in the Season 1 Finale of Shogun (2024), "A Dream of A Dream" from FX. Here's our reaction to our first time watching.
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[@Christian-el2bz]

"Why tell a dead man the future" that Toranaga said to Yabushige, is the same thing Yabushige said to Omi about Toranaga in the first episode. Showing that Omi also was a spy.

[@missk8tie]

It's a callback, but it's also Toranaga saying yes, he did always want to be Shogun. The little smile he gives him confirms it.

[@Christian-el2bz]

@@missk8tie Toranaga wanting to be Shogun was revealed through another callback: "Unless I win". The "Why tell a dead man the future" was to reveal the web of information and control Toranaga had. - It was to show the observant viewer that Omi was (THE) spy all along.

[@deanthemachine8879]

21:49 “Let your hands be the last to hold her [him]” is what Mariko said to Fuji when she lost her child and husband in episode 1

[@chadbuchanan7044]

That line was masterfully crafted. I'm a 40 year old man and that made me cry like a baby!

[@goyasolidar]

"Flowers are only flowers because they fall" relates to Mariko and her ultimate goal of taking her life. "Thankfully, the wind" relates to Ochiba helping her give that death honorable purpose.

[@janpaultimbal928]

"Thankfully, the wind..." When the flowers fall, the wind blows them away... up higher than they ever intended to be.

[@KenjiMapes]

This show was phenomenal & the finale was perfect. This remake had huge shoes to fill. The 1970’s Shogun book was well received critically & by the people which made it an instant hit. Then it was made into a 1980 TV miniseries that was one of the first epic big tv miniseries events that made it hugely influential. The book & the 1980 show weren’t just influential art & entertainment but culturally important. For many centuries Japan was an insular nation but opened up in the 19th Century. By the late 1970’s some Japanese companies had become household names like Honda & Sony. However the book & show had an influence on Japanese culture & history. Now we see Japanese culture everywhere here from sushi restaurants to technology & to movies. Shogun had a hand in that arguably. Now I’m a yankee New Yorker to the bone but grew up with Japanese culture in my house as a half-Japanese & half-English kid. So I remember the show & have seen the explosion of Japanese things in our culture. Anyway, this remake had a high bar to keep or reach. I’d say they surpassed expectations. Now I know many expected a big CGI battle in the finale but it seems despite the lack of a spectacular battle everyone lived the finale. They awed everyone with exposition, incredible acting & amazing dialogue instead. I haven’t watched your reaction yet but I’m hoping that you two enjoyed the finale just as much as I & everyone else did.🙂👍

[@vinsanity40k]

except that we now stream these shows, the "miniseries" label is still apt for an 8-episode show/season. but it's kinda fallen off for some reason.

[@takutubepalms]

Lady Ochiba was right. Toranaga deceived many people to become Shogun. Even villagers. But his wish for an era without war came true. Edo is now Tokyo. And Anjin is a real person. Anjin's grave is in Kanagawa Prefecture, next to Tokyo. The nearest station is Anjin-zuka Station.

[@smari3290]

按針こと三浦按針は殆どの日本人が教科書で習います。

[@Philistine47]

Ishido didn't care if Mariko went back to Toranaga. But if he let Mariko leave with Toranaga's family, then the rest of the hostages would also demand to leave, and then he'd find himself fighting more than just Toranaga.

[@ronweber1402]

Everybody was dancing around the issue. The hostages for whatever political reasons didn't stand up and demand to to be released. Ishido created artificial bureaucratic barriers to stop the hostages from going through the arduous process of getting permission to leave but he could still technically say they were free to leave. Mariko came in like a wrecking ball (my apologies to Miley Cyrus) and smashed the illusion to pieces.

[@jeffrogers2180]

Curious editing. Him praying, them telling him he missed the funeral, him emotional in the boat, him looking at the empty spot next to him and saying no translator, Fuji telling him she's becoming a nun.... Skipping a bunch of the emotional high points.

[@missk8tie]

@nathanporter3569 I don't know, I always need to watch a subtitled show like this at least twice in order to get the details, because I can't read and watch the actors' faces closely at the same time. If it's action it's not such a big deal. I had read the novel Shogun years ago and that helped in this case.

[@alanchapman1755]

@nathanporter3569 I think the entire show went over their head, with the finale reaction only showing how much with the editing and not understanding "A dream within a Dream".

[@deanthemachine8879]

3:23 he’s *been* married the whole time. When he left England he had a pregnant wife and a son. His old age is all a dream anyway

[@missk8tie]

And his dreams stop after the scene with Toranaga where he protests the punishment of the village. After that, he drops Mariko's rosary in the ocean. The historical Englishman that Blackthorne is based on never left Japan.

[@johnski4709]

@@missk8tie Well he did leave and explored the Indian Ocean but came back to Japan.

[@alanfoster6589]

While he remained in Japan, Blackthorne/Adams sent money to his family in England.

[@swtangie]

you kept talking about yabushige and his death with "dishonor" when it really had nothing to do with honor or dishonor. he was simply obsessed with death the whole series and talked about it often. it was even a VERY memorable part in the first episode.

[@chadbuchanan7044]

" Let your hands be the last to hold her", like Mariko said about Fuji's baby...breaks my heart every time!

[@deanthemachine8879]

My favorite character hands down: Fujisama. I hope that actress gets more high profile work off the back of this

[@jeffrogers2180]

Somebody tell her... These characters were all based on real people, he never left Japan.

[@Domeo_Divine]

There’s a season 2 and 3 thanks for the spoilers shit breath

[@jeffrogers2180]

@@Domeo_Divine no idea who you're talking to but you seem unhinged.

[@thoroughlyrustled6186]

​@@jeffrogers2180looks like you're that somebody buddy

[@jeffrogers2180]

@@thoroughlyrustled6186 well then that's hilarious. It reveals a complete lack of knowledge about the book and about the real people that the characters in the book represented.

[@nataliestclair6176]

​@@Domeo_Divineno spoiler becuase the last episode was the ending of the book. Blackthrone never left Japan. Season 2 and 3 will be completely original and nothing to do with the book. They don't even have a plot or script yet for the next season. Most likely it will be about Toronaga when he was younger. Won't even have the same cast. Hulu is trying to cash in on the success of this show.

[@elusiveDEVIANT]

Someone get them to watch Preacher. Id love to see her reaction to that show. Or Happy! Two of the most wild shows ever made. Also for those unaware, this whole season was crimson sky. The entire show was crimson sky playing out more or less exactly how toranaga sama wanted it. Despite the death of his son. Though, he got something from that foolish sacrifice.

[@chrisroberts5844]

Yes to both Preacher and Happy!

[@vinsanity40k]

actually "preacher" or "reacher" would work 😄

[@nyjazzman]

A perfect ending for everything that happened. I hope the sequels are as great as this one.

[@botNeyen]

Setting the falcon free is saying goodbye to Mariko, on the first episode he described a type of Hawk (the one he just set free) wich is also describes Mariko behavior, now that she is dead, he says goodbye to her as he set free the falcon representing her.

[@janpaultimbal928]

"Thankfully, the wind..." When the flowers fall, the wind blows them away... up higher than they ever intended to be. Great ending line... similar to "What a bonfire my poems would make" - a death with purpose

[@botNeyen]

"Flowers are only flowers because they fall, but thankfully the wind" Mariko was the flower and Yabushige the wind.

[@hackapump]

Ishido kept hostages, including Mariko, to deter potential enemies from attacking the castle. But holding hostages was considered shameful, so he would never admit they were. Mariko forced him to show his hand. That was part of the goal: To free the hostages in order to weaken Ishido's standing. The other part followed Mariko's death: To pry away Lady Ochiba from Ishido's side. Her love for her childhood friend ultimately made her resent Ishido. (He did after all cause her death). The poem Lady Ochiba recites is Mariko's by the way. Consider what the wind does to fallen leaves and flowers - the.last line doesn't need a resolution, that's the beauty of it. Ochiba is reconnecting with her friend through poetry.

[@omegachaos32]

Favorite character has become Fuji after my first watch. She is so sassy and I feel her reactions are probably usually the audience's reactions for a lot of things. Some things not so much (although I think we can understand her feelings even if some of us lack the cultural understanding of duty and honor from this era and locale's context; sorry my phrasing here is not the best), but the way she reacted through just subtle facial expressions a lot of the time was incredibly impressive. Fantastic actress among a wonderful cast.

[@botNeyen]

BTW The real John Blackthorne (Willam Adams) never got back to England, in fact he married, had two kids and die in Japan at like 55. Altough he was able to sent letters to his family in England. There are some documents about some British sailors who went to Japan to deliver letters from the British crown and John Blackthorne (Willam) did as translator for them. These sailors said in the documents that Willam was absolutely a Japanese but with an European face, he knew the lenguage perfectly and knew every custom.

[@manbearpig7359]

My guity pleasure is watching Americans trying to figure out TV shows and movies that aren't dumbed down for them.

[@manbearpig7359]

@nathanporter3569 Well said brother. It's not like one has to be a Japanese history major. Just spend ten minutes on YT and get broad brush strokes on Nobunaga, Hideyoshi, Ieyasu, and William Adams.

[@i94yeh2p]

Renewed for two more seasons?!?! They covered the entire book. I wonder if they can actually pull off two more seasons just as good as this one. I'm surprised, let's hope they can. 🤞

[@LaCheeserie]

😬 exactly

[@ronweber1402]

I am worried.

[@ginxgin8056]

Because of this later history, the bones of the story are already there, as in the original book of Season 1. It will be a good or bad script, but we can expect it since Season 1 turned out to be wonderful. I would rather they do the period when Nobunaga was assassinated by the betrayal of Balliko's father and the subsequent rise of Taiko than this continuation. Then maybe we could see Mariko and Yabushige again.

[@botNeyen]

Many people phrase this ending an overall show as some kind of "chess in real life". However, Toranaga is playing the japanese game, shogi. Wich unlike chess, in shogi you can use stolen pieces. For this reason, there is also a strategy to capture the king (The Heir/His mother) by taking away important pieces as decoys (Mariko, Anjin, Yabu,etc). Strategy is of utmost importance for victory.

[@Domeo_Divine]

Toronaga is a fkn tyrant and I love it. All this time thinking he was Ironman, dude turned out to be Thanos lol.

[@Fallen616]

Didn’t the official Shogun clarify that Toronaga didn’t seek the Shogun title till halfway thru the season when he saw it was the only way to unify Japan? And Hiroyuki Sanada confirmed this in an interview. Opinions are great but let’s not pass them off as objective truth when you’re subjective as hell.

[@Domeo_Divine]

@@Fallen616 It’s not that deep Quasimodo. How is it being passed as objective truth when I compared him to a fictional character? Going off the show they reviewed and the events that followed it’s what I got from his character. Sacrificing the lives of those he loved in exchange for victory and what resulted in over 200yrs of peace, that was a Thanos type motive and those were some Thanos type chess moves in my humble but subjective opinion lol. Dont read too much into it

[@0Tyson0]

This is a flawless masterpiece for me, genuinely incredible.

[@botNeyen]

I read somewhere that in the book he actually says that he keeps the Anjin around because in the end, even him needs a friend (Wich IMO it makes the whole seppuku scene even more impactful, is Toranaga saving a friend, that friend that doesnt share the same culture as him so he can actually save from a seppuku). I wish the showrunners had kept that. I absolutely hate the "Because hes funny haha" thing, is absolutely off-character from Toranaga. We all know, even him, that he keeps him around because he feels somewhat responsible and "friend" with him. Thats why in the book Anjin is also gifted with the Ajiro village.

[@botNeyen]

Some people complain about the ending and the lack of "action". The ending is the main point of the whole show and the main point of Toranaga's character. "Win the battle without getting the sword wet". It reminds me of Sun Tzu's: The Art of War, where lays out the truth of Toranaga's tactics. The best general is not one who wins 100 victories in 100 battles, it's the one who wins without fighting at all. For everyone who expected a fight with a lot of blood and people dying, we are represented in Nagakado and one of the last things his father said to him "Why the ones that have never been on battle are the most eager to start one?" that's exactly us, the viewers.

[@botNeyen]

Sun Tzu's: The Art of War, lays out the truth of Toranaga's tactics. The best general is not one who wins 100 victories in 100 battles, it's the one who wins without fighting at all. Toranaga could have tried to cut a bloody swathe across the country. He could have had Blackthorne sink the Black Ship and bombard the ports and fortresses of every town. He could have done what we all (including Blackthorn) expected him to do in order to win, but instead he crushed the enemy alliance by playing innocent and sending one woman in to undermine their unity.

[@nataliestclair6176]

The opening scene was a dream, or nightmare. Blackthrone never left Japan in the book

[@omegachaos32]

28:10 "I like the Anjin, cuz he makes me laugh." Where have I heard that before? 👀 I won't lie, you got me laughing at that quick callback 😂

[@bewilderedbeest]

If they follow history, the next season could deal with the Taeko's heir coming of age and conspiring with his mother to overthrow Toranaga and claim the Shogunate for himself.

[@bewilderedbeest]

Spoiler Alert: The Taeko's heir will lose.

[@vinsanity40k]

they'll need to practically write sequels as if they were james clavell himself to pull off another couple of seasons. good luck to them i guess.

[@lemonherb1]

The show really had some incredible characters, to the point that it’s hard to imagine how it would be like without Hiromatsu, Yabushige, and Mariko I suppose they could always do a prequel, and then we could still have those characters, just minus Blackthorne

[@ainsleyperry5192]

The book is so good on which this show is based on. Will season 2 & 3 be just as good when they have to write their own story? Though the book does give us some of Toranaga's thoughts on the future. No.1: To give his half brother enough rope so the Regents will be forced to kill him and all his heirs and family, so sorry. 2: Lady Ochiba and the Heir will need to be removed from the Council and their influence. 3: Isolate the Portuguese church and re-nogociate trade. 4: As Toranaga say's, "I did not choose to be who I am. It is my Karma to be Shogun." Cheers, Chris Perry.

[@royaltree1204]

But thankfully, the wind...carries the falling petals.

[@ThatShyGuyMatt]

It wasn't until after the show that I found out this is based not only on the old Shogun, but its all based on the real story of John Blackthrone (actually not his real name). Granted of course there are some liberties taken. And what we know of him is that he actually died in Japan. Someone correct me if I am wrong though.

[@kazuhisanakatani1209]

I'm pretty sure that the second season will be based on the Siege of Osaka (1614-1615). The situation leading up to the event is full of political conspiracies and battles large and small. If you read the Wikipedia entry on the Siege of Osaka, you'll agree with me. Wikipedia explains the background as follows: When Toyotomi Hideyoshi died in 1598, Japan came to be governed by the Council of Five Elders, among whom Tokugawa Ieyasu possessed the most authority. After defeating Ishida Mitsunari in the Battle of Sekigahara in 1600, Ieyasu essentially seized control of Japan for himself and abolished the Council. In 1603, the Tokugawa shogunate was established with its capital at Edo. Hideyoshi's son Toyotomi Hideyori and his mother Yodo-dono were allowed to stay at Osaka Castle, a fortress that had served as Hideyoshi's residence. Hideyori remained confined to the castle for several years. In addition, as a mechanism of control, it was agreed that in the year 1603 he would marry the daughter of Tokugawa Hidetada, Senhime, who was related to both clans. Ieyasu sought to establish a powerful and stable regime under the rule of his own clan. Only the Toyotomi clan, led by Hideyori under the influence of Yodo-dono, remained an obstacle to that goal...

[@user-hz2or7fm5l]

ありがとう 兄弟😋👍🇯🇵

[@GeraldH-ln4dv]

Edit: Apparently I'm wrong about future seasons. They covered all of the original book. Perhaps other shows will be made of the other books written by Clavell which wander off of the thinly veiled actual history and go more fictional and follow the family of Anjin in their adventures in Asia. The major characters in the book and TV show were all real people, with different names. The real anjin, William Adams, married a commoner and had two children, but the entire family disappears from the historical record not long after Tokugawa Ieyasu's (called Toranaga in the book and show) grandson Tokugawa Iemitsu closes Japan. In Clavell's partly fictional books, continuing the Asian Saga after Shogun, the family ends up eventually in Taiwan, I believe, as a powerful trading clan.

[@ronweber1402]

I guess you've been in a cave but seasons 2&3 have already been green lighted. That being said I am deathly afraid that they will eff it up like Game of Thrones.

[@GeraldH-ln4dv]

@@ronweber1402 Thanks for the correction. I hadn't heard. Now I'm concerned. The later books in Clavell's Asian Saga veer way off from historical reality. They're good but not as good as Shogun, and aside from taking place during actual events, with real players renamed, the family of Blackthorne's descendants is entirely fictional, unlike Anjin Blackthorne being based upon the real anjin William Adams.

[@alexshank1414]

Lloyd: “Tic Tac, sir?” 10:09

[@deithlan]

LETS GOOO

[@LunaticReason]

I was one o the red samurai on the docks

[@LaCheeserie]

Wind and flowers, seeds…

[@AntiChannel1]

Yeah this is how the original series ended. The only reason they're making another season is because today Hollywood is capitalizing on successful sequels. kzbin.info/www/bejne/apq6XoR9n958i9ksi=a9hy9Pz9nhX1sd1_

[@algi1]

Wait, season 2 and 3??? WTF? Will it be the other novels from the cycle?

[@botNeyen]

People forget this is based on real life events. No need to change the novel when you can follow the historical events. Following the real history, I believe that in the second season we're gonna see: Extending the shogun story (Toranaga) following to Sekigahara an the Shogunate move of expelling the Catholics from Japan. Blackthorne building his fleet an working with his crew to establish Dutch trade replacing the Portuguese. The increasing anti-Catholic movement, followed by the Siege of Osaka (And the heir/lady ochiba defeat), where we finally see Blackthorne's cannons and Toranaga's secret heart followed by his son as Shogun. I feel like season 2 is going to be way darker.

[@algi1]

@@botNeyen People assume "based on novel" and "based on history" means it's slavishly copying events one by one. This TV show changed so much, it's basically an original show inspired by the novel. It doesn't matter if there are other novels or there are other historical events, they'll have to writse season 2 and 3 from scratch.

[@martinbraun1211]

🖖

[@snacksonaplane]

Show gone.

[@mrflick7645]

Some advice for you two: quit getting your education from Hollywood

[@YouMeTheMovies]

Huh? Who says we are watching this for educational purposes?

[@BlackDeathThrash]

All 10 episodes done and they still cannot correctly pronounce names and other words that were said numerous times.