SHOGUN TV Show Big Historical WEAPON ERROR! Review

[@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouries]

You're absolutely right Matt. Specifically, those are British Pattern 1716 (at the earliest - they could be Pattern 1801) Sea Service pistols.

[@scholagladiatoria]

Hurrah! I was not certain of the pattern from the trailer and thought it better not to say at all than not be certain. It's great to know the certain answer from the best person to know!

[@hellequingentlemanbastard9497]

Thought so too, they look like the heavy Sea-service pistols of the French Revolutionary/Napoleonic Wars.

[@RandalReid]

Whoa, it's Jonathan Ferguson, keeper of firearms and artillery at the Royal Armouries Museum in the UK which houses a collection of thousands of iconic weapons from throughout history

[@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouries]

It may as well be one of those "BANG!" flag guns. @@scholagladiatoria

[@Shadow-cv11zx]

​@scholagladiatoria don't you know? Tanegashima gun

[@verfugbarkite]

To be fair Matt-san, i do recall James Clavel’s novel had anachronisms such as bayonet equipped musketeers.

[@scholagladiatoria]

Really?! Wow... I must have missed that.

[@williamarthur4801]

I was just in the middle of typing the same thing.

[@thinusconradie4297]

Good on you eagled-eyed readers.

[@williamarthur4801]

@@thinusconradie4297 I'm nearly 58, my mother bought it for me when I was about 12, I think I have read it more than any other book, apart from Asterix the Gaul, now there's a topic.

[@silverjohn6037]

Weren't plug bayonets a thing by that point? Those were in general use by the 1640's so the concept may have been around earlier.

[@ИванГречкин-ю8с]

The story takes place within 3 years, meaning: 1597-1600.

[@punaime3425]

In the movie "Alatriste" there is a scene where the main protagonist charges a wheel lock gun. Very accurate, very historic. They should have done something similar.

[@KW-ps6hk]

Such a good movie (and books). So well done. My only complaint was that they took away Inigo's moment of heroism when Alatriste is let loose, which I was so looking forward to.

[@texasbeast239]

Show Gun

[@Leadfoot_P71]

I like gun shows

[@SkunkworksProps]

We see what you did there.

[@Chinaboatman]

Except, a linguistic pedant will tell you that 'gun' is pronounced like 'goon' in Japanese.

[@MyBlindThirdEye]

Justice for my wheellocks!

[@broadbandislife]

TBF given how finicky and high-maintenance _those_ were you probably wouldn't want to sail around the world with the buggers. Matchlocks and the assorted proto-flintlocks were comparatively sturdy and reliable (and _much_ cheaper).

[@cleanixx5343]

3:10 Im fairly sure that Doglock was just the term for the earlier English FLINTlocks that had the „safety“ half cock lever on the outside as opposed to the French design that had an internal component that fulfilled this function (which the English later adopted). Not a completely separate lock just a specific design of flintlock

[@bpaigelee]

Yup, I was just writing out the same thing..... I'm glad some mentioned it....

[@adamtennant4936]

Interesting. I'd never heard of a Doglock before.

[@HyperboreanAnchovy44]

The guns are still clearly 1700s

[@cleanixx5343]

@@HyperboreanAnchovy44 Yeah those looked like sea service pistols with a few minor modifications

[@simeondarke201]

close but no cigar, as Matt pointed out the overall shape of the pistol is totally wrong and would be like a Colt python at the OK corral. There is no excuse for this as there are excellent reproductions of the English dog lock on the market.

[@adwarfsittingonagiantsshoulder]

The older series directed by James Clavell himself was very good (except for the first shot in the first episode, where you see the shade of the helicopter that was used to film from)... and Toshiro Mifune, I always found this actor good, but in this movie he is exceptional !!!

[@scholagladiatoria]

I vaguely remember it being on when I was a kid, but haven't seen more than a few clips as an adult.

[@white-noisemaker9554]

@@scholagladiatoria OMG Matt! You simply MUST find the original Richard Chamberlain Shogun miniseries (do not watch the movie short version)! I would love to get your commentary on the classic series, then the new version!

[@MichaelScheele]

@@scholagladiatoria, the 1980 mini-series was widely watched in the US at the time. My mother was able to translate the spoken Japanese for me, so that added to the experience for me. Anyone familiar with Akira Kurosawa films would recognize Toshiro Mifune.

[@konstantin.v]

Clavell did not *direct* the series, though 🤨

[@vadimflaks7795]

@@scholagladiatoriaThe entire series is watchable on the internet archive and it's worth a look (if only for Toshiro Mifune as the titular character). Unlike the FX remake it was filmed entirely in Japan, and got a LOT of people interested in Japan's culture and history.

[@LagerPetrol409]

I actually already noticed the flintlock error in previews but just thought oh well! I believe from recall the original 80s series made the exact same error

[@gunsenhistory7919]

As a long time viewer of the channel and having read tons of material on Japanese arms and armor, my first take on them from what I see in the trailers is that the general shape and designs are okay for the time period, although some main characters' kabuto (helmets) are very post 1700s inspired. The main issues are the colors, they look very standardized and with a weird pale/grey/greenish finish which is definitely not what period armors used to look like. Paired with the "historical" color correction of the cinematography, I think the aesthethic of the Azuchi Momoyama period are not captured properly.

[@grzegorzmarcholt5552]

It's from book I guess. Clavell wrote about "unusual" one-coloured (Brown or Gray) "uniforms" of Toranaga's army.

[@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699]

Congrats on finishing your paper on armor! Excited to hear your input on the show

[@gunsenhistory7919]

@@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699 Many thanks I hope it was an enjoyable reading!!

[@wattlebough]

Is there a film or series you recommend that gets the armour 100% right?

[@gunsenhistory7919]

@@wattlebough I do not think there are perfect ones but the old Seven Samurai of Kurosawa is probably the closest you can get. The advisor of that movie was a member of the Myōchin family, a lineage of armor makers, so some real armors were used in that occasion.

[@Valkanna.Nublet]

I remember enjoying the 80s version, so I'm looking forwards to seeing how they do it this time.

[@Theduckwebcomics]

I loved the 80s version with Richard Chandlerian. His version of the Bourne Identity was far better too.

[@Valkanna.Nublet]

@@TheduckwebcomicsFunny you should mention Bourne. Somehow I missed it when I was younger and only learned about it, and watched it, last week. I find it hard to say which is best because they're almost different genres. Damon's version is far more of an action film, whereas the 80s was a thriller. As well as there being some very important differences in the core plot, such as what Treadstone is and Bournes's mission.

[@sam1812seal]

I’m only seeing references to the book in the latest reviews, with the huge impact of the 80’s Richard Chamberlain miniseries seemingly forgotten. It had such an impact that there was even a computer game release in ‘86.

[@hafor2846]

@@sam1812seal It's an adaptation of the book. That's a bit like asking where the influence of Bakshii's LotR adaption was for the Jackson movies.

[@Tadicuslegion78]

Imma give them a pass only probably because trying to find a prop match lock or wheel lock for Hollywood was probably super hard or super expensive to replicate even with a Hollywood budget

[@hishamg]

I’m sure that with all the replica/reenactment swords, armours, crossbows etc around these days, there must be someone out there who makes replica late 16th century wheellock pistols, especially in the USA. Edit: there is a guy on KZbin, Capandball (I think) who has a pair of functioning replica 17th century wheellock pistols.

[@evanmorris1178]

Hah. Might take a month or two, but they are available.

[@M.M.83-U]

@@hishamgYes and he buyed them from a maker in eastern Europe.

[@simeondarke201]

A friend of mine, a fellow re-enactor, has a pair of reproduction dog lock pistols made by Pietta I believe. and the cost of them was not excessive.

[@MichaelCorryFilms]

This version of Shogun has Blackthorne's ship travel through a wormhole in the ocean before arriving in Japan. He is a time traveler. It's supposed to be that way. The English know that after Sekigahara, Torunaga cuts off Japan from the rest of the world. Charles II sends Blackthorne on a personal mission through time to stop that. The pistols are perfect for the new storyline.

[@dave_h_8742]

😮 but going backwards in time isn't feasible forwards possibly according to theoretical physics 😁

[@MichaelCorryFilms]

​@@dave_h_8742It's a joke. I'm talking like a Hollywood producer and trying to make the worst possible 🎉version of every novel-turned-movie. Forward in time would take some serious sailing skills... I guess they have solar sails on board.

[@beenright5115]

I'll watch this sequel!

[@nataliefaust7959]

@@MichaelCorryFilms "It'll be like The Final Countdown, but in 1600!" That's how it was pitched. 😆

[@Theduckwebcomics]

A weird time in history when al colour was drained from the world, possibly by the singularity which caused the wormhole...

[@liamspruce6776]

I'm not sure if it been discussed here or not, but the book Shogun is a somewhat fictionalised retelling of "William Adams (24 September 1564 - 16 May 1620)" He was the first Englishman to land on Japan's shores, who later became a Samurai named "Miura Anjin" the man built the first European / Western style ships for Japan and established many European doctrines later adopted and used in japans many wars. He was granted a fief in Hemi in what is now modern day Yokosuka, Japan. Adams died age 55.

[@PalleRasmussen]

You and Jonathan Ferguson should collab.

[@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouries]

I'd love to!

[@ArcanisUrriah]

@@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouries Make it about the differences between doglocks, snaphaunce, miquelot, etc. :)

[@PalleRasmussen]

@@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouries well... You mentioned the sea, now Drachinifel needs to be part as well 😉

[@johnladuke6475]

@@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouries You might have to get that not-Jonathan fellow from your channel to lure Matt in with pointy sharp things.

[@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouries]

Good idea @@ArcanisUrriah

[@gwcstudio]

My father is a historian and was hired as a consultant on one of the 3 musketeers movies, since he has intensely studied Richelieu. Immediately he started giving advice (for '"Richelieu's castle" they wanted to use The Alcazar in Spain instead of one of the many correct period castles extant in France fully furnished...) naturally they thanked him and ignored him. A friend of mine is a Japanese dance master and cultural ambassador who was hired to advise on proper wearing of kimono, etc., for Memoirs Of A Geisha and she flagged many out of period issues with costume and the fact that using a Chinese star was going to piss off both the Japanese and Chinese (imagine having a Frenchman wearing bellbottom hiphuggers portraying George Washington) again "thank you very much good day" Often behind these errors is someone who was screaming "Noooooo!" at the time. The decision-making of hollywood is fast and ruthless and uninformed.

[@dzmitryzaitsau6471]

Never heard about this show ever. Please make "weapon error" video about Ridley Scott's "Napoleon". That one has bazillion errors.

[@adamtennant4936]

The original TV show was great so this one has big potential.

[@Mortablunt]

Fucker got arrogant and lazy, Blames us for his sloppy work.

[@nataliefaust7959]

Coming out this Friday, I think, on Hulu.

[@oskar6661]

That whole film was just an error. Also, weird for Ridley (who hasn't made a good film in 15-20 years at this point) to make a film about a subject he hates. He's openly stated how much he dislikes Napoleon...solid reason to make a film.

[@jeffpadilla9891]

@@oskar6661Money!

[@robertrobert7924]

Reminds me of the firearms props used in ZULU. Officer revolvers were Mk VI Webleys and with not enough MHs to go around, some old Mausers were used.

[@thomasbaagaard]

its a common issue. In the Danish "1864" series most Danish soldiers use replica M1842 Springfields muskets. Since that is an "evolution" of late 18th century French muskets and the Danish army did use the French 1822 (converted to percussion and uprifled) they do look rather similar. But in some of the shoots with a lot of extras, you can find replica P1853 enfield and carbine versions of the enfield. And even a few Austrian Lorenz rifle muskets. And the Danish officers use replica colt 1860 revolvers. Now one specific Danish officer did in fact own one, but to the extant that the rest of the officers even had revolvers, they would have been European designs. Clearly the production simply didn't have sufficient numbers of the right guns.

[@johngreen-sk4yk]

I've seen long lee enfields with the magazines removed in the zulu movie , but never noticed mausers, have I missed something 🤔?

[@robertrobert7924]

@@johngreen-sk4yk I can't remember, maybe they were what you said.

[@johngreen-sk4yk]

@robertrobert7924 I had a look at a still photo earlier, definitely charger loading long lee enfields with no magazine and socket bayonets somehow fitted , I suppose they had to get by with what they could 🙂👍

[@SuperFunkmachine]

its really common for the extras to have guns are that wrong or are dressed up.

[@wattlebough]

Damn! They got subject matter experts to consult on every aspect of the film- except for that!

[@marcl2213]

Thank you for putting light on this mistake. I’ve viewed the series «Blue Eye Samurai» on Netflix not too long ago. Apparently there were historical mistakes too. One of the english character wants to illegally import firearms in Japan (Edo-period, mainly early 17th-century for the plot). Arms were not new to the country, there were gunsmiths in Japan as early as end of 16th-century. But on the battlefield the sword was still simply more practical.

[@simeondarke201]

Matchlock firearms were popular in Japan from the mid to late16th century due to the Portugese trade.

[@sid300e]

You’re the first person I saw mention this. I noticed it right off the bat in the show but started second guessing myself when I noticed no other mention of it online.

[@gallendugall8913]

Probably the prop department/weapons department were told to provide "antique black powder firearms" and with no other information they went with flintlock. If you tell a prop department what you want, and are specific, they'll get you that specific thing. If not they'll get the most cost effective thing. Both real and stunt flintlocks are available at a low price.

[@SionCorn]

I agree with you Matt and this sort of thing drives me potty - it's all about proper research or rather, the lack of it. Another example is in 'The Revenant' where Hugh Glass/Leonardo DiCaprio is holding a flintlock rifle (or musket) when he gets attacked and knocked down by a bear. The rifle is knocked from his hands. After the bear walks away he reaches over for the musket/rifle which is now lying on it's side. At this point you can clearly see that the hammer is cocked and the frizzen is open. Having shot these things myself, if you open the frizzen and turn it over the powder falls out. It is obvious that there is now NO powder left in the pan. However, he smoothly closes the frizzen onto the pan and as the bear approaches he aims and fires, shooting the bear. At most, there may have been a spark from the flint but there would be no powder in the pan to cause a flash and ignite the main charge. It's a great film and it's just a very small point but these things matter if you want to maintain some sort of realism/credibility. Having said all this I guess 99% of the people who watched the film wouldn't notice. Maybe it'll be the same with Shogun.

[@puma0085]

Thanks for letting us know Matt. Did not notice it but early muzzle-loading pistols is not for my forte. I am in general more interested in 19th-century guns.But if I think about it again the pistols really look to modern for the given time peroid.

[@DH.2016]

As stated below by another commentator, it reminds me of the original TV Series when the Portuguese crew (or was it the Dutch? Anyway, the European ship crew) had 18th century muskets with socket bayonets!

[@robertsmith4681]

I will give them partial props over it anyway, matchlocks were not really used anymore by that era, and early forms of flintlock such as the miquelet or wheellocks did exist. Other than the shape of the frizzen they were basically identical to 18th century flintlocks. At least they didn't use percussion ....

[@colbunkmust]

"matchlocks were not really used anymore by that era" Uh, what are you talking about? The primary infantry firearm arm of the first half of the 17th century was the matchlock musket(see the Thirty Years War, English Civil Wars, Polish-Muscovite War, Kalmar War, Hapsburg-Ottoman Wars, etc.), and they continued to be used in irregular service long beyond that period even within Europe. Wheellocks had been around since 1504, but they aren't a "form of flintlock", they operate on a completely different mechanism. There isn't clean evolution from Matchlock to wheellock to flintlock. Wheellocks were expensive to make and slow to load but have a superior lock time compared to flintlocks that replaced them. The reason matchlocks existed in service long after the invention of wheellocks was a case of economics, wheellocks cost more but were necessary for dynamic combat associated with cavalry, where tending to a slow-match would be an impossibility. The economic and reliability benefits of dog-locks, Snaphance and later flintlock mechanisms replaced both eventually but we still see matchlock in service with large European military formations as late a the 1690s and beyond. The Battle of Boyne saw the Irish Jacobite forces of James II largely equipped with matchlocks facing off against Williamite Dutch, Huguenot, and Danish fusiliers armed with more modern flintlocks and socket bayonets.

[@robertsmith4681]

@@colbunkmust I consider wheelocks to be an early form of flintlock simply because of the way they operate, using pyrite stones scraping against a spinning steel wheel. And yes, I'm aware that less technologically advanced nations used matchlocks much longer than European powers such as the British or French did, some were still in use in primitive societies well into the 20th century. I personally have owned a number of each over the years although I detest having too deal with loose powder and thus prefer cartridge firearms..

[@evanmorris1178]

Wheel locks are not considered any part of the flintlock family, even though the flintlock and it’s predecessors like the miquelet lock used some of the same elements, such as the dog like holder for the flint being based on the dog like pyrite holder. But the whole spring loaded rotating wheel makes it it’s own branch on the developement tree. I think it sad they couldn’t get someone to build more period correct pistols for this. I love the line of them with the shallow angled grip and ball butt for striking with. Plus, how the hell did no one notice they weren’t cocked! It completely renders the scene comic… Can you imagine the character he’s trying to dominate just casually brushing them aside and bitch-slapping him….

[@broadbandislife]

@@evanmorris1178 In all fairness turn-of-1600 Japanese almost certainly would _not_ be familiar enough with such weapons to know they're basically fancy paperweights with the cock down... and if any of them had encountered a wheellock at some point they'd likely just assume they're looking at one of those. Remember, for people unfamiliar with them guns are just about black magic. Went double back in the days when Everyone & Dog, Inc. took the supernatural for granted.

[@colbunkmust]

@@robertsmith4681 "And yes, I'm aware that less technologically advanced nations used matchlocks much longer than European powers such as the British or French did, some were still in use in primitive societies well into the 20th century." Ok, but that's not the issue with what you said above. Circa 1600, the matchlock is at its *height* of its usage amongst most gun-armed soldiers of the period. That is completely contrary to what you originally said with "matchlocks were not really used anymore by that era...". In 1600 the "British" didn't even exist and both the English and French at the time were fielding thousands of matchlocks in their arsenals and armies.

[@DougCaldwell]

Thanks for heads up on flintlock misplaced by 80 years in Shogun. What say you about the edge weapons in show?

[@johncartwright8154]

I may not watch this new production in the company of my wife and be subjected to much eyerolling as I tut and 'suck teeth' at any inaccuracies; "it's a drama not a documentary you pedantic Old Scrote!" as when watching, 'Gladiator', 'Zulu', 'Braveheart' and the like. However, when there was a TV series about army life in Aden of which I had no real knowledge of, she was outraged with cries of 'hair too long! Shorts too short!" "Over-familiarity between officers and OR!" What I'm getting at is, we nit-pick what we know, and the majority of the viewers of historical drama have little knowledge of the details.

[@FrankinDallas]

Well then you will be missing a fantastic series. Hiro Sanada, the main Japanese character, is a co producer of the film and he and the crew went to great pains to be authentic with respect to Japanese arms, customs and costumes. Ok fine they missed the pistol thing but that's only a small tiny piece of this show.

[@johncartwright8154]

@@FrankinDallas Just watched the first two episodes. A fantastic and faultless production to my mind!

[@edmann1820]

I had to stop watching Vikings as the armour was grating on me too much. With any tv show or play you are suspending your disbelief. Your imagination is a vital part of it. If you see something that triggers your logical brain to react and interrupt that suspension of disbelief it can be very hard to override it.

[@thomcarey1971]

Hi Matt! Have you ever seen the early 80s Hollywood television miniseries starring Richard Chamberlain? It’s a decent watch!

[@Mikkemeister]

I loved it when I watched it as a kid in the 80’s.

[@jeffpadilla9891]

Honestly they probably went with the later version because they look better and more familiar with what people (not firearms people) think guns looked like back then.

[@The_Reality_Filter]

You'd think the actor would've familiarised himself with the weapons to not cock up by not cocking them. Now I'm wondering if the the term "cock up" comes from this association...

[@robertsmith4681]

I suspect that this particular "gun" was likely a rubber ducky with no moving parts ... Actors are just not handed real firearms unless absolutely necessary..

[@Karate_Shark]

Also remember, we haven't seen the episode yet. The fact that the guns are not cocked and/or not loaded MIGHT be addressed in the episode.... I'm not wildly optimisitic about it, but i'm just saying, let's hold judgement until we see the full ACTUAL clip.

[@dave_h_8742]

​@@robertsmith4681Well they don't want him to go off half cocked

[@The_Reality_Filter]

@@robertsmith4681 well at least not if they're named Baldwin...

[@robertsmith4681]

@@The_Reality_Filter Especially after the Baldwin debacle ... Nobody wants an actor to go anywhere near a real firearm unless absolutely necessary...

[@lasselippert3892]

Should Blackthorne have pistols of an English design though? He did serve on a Dutch ship afterall.

[@foowashere]

Good point!

[@noodleboy5]

But see Noel Perrin's 'Giving up the Gun: Japan's Reversion to the Sword, 1543-1879' (1979). The flintlock technology was... possible... there in Japan, even if matchlocks were the order of the day. They made some terrifically advanced small arms in their day.

[@WisecrackJax]

I love that you’re into guns, too. Weaponry of any type is always fascinating!

[@Mortablunt]

Matt Easton and Richard Hammond are Americans who got switched at birth and raised in England.

[@thinusconradie4297]

I rely on your channel to keep an eye on the accuracy of TV shows. Keep up the good work! Do not falter in your duty! ... not that it's your... you get the point.

[@CRS327]

get a life

[@nataliefaust7959]

I'm bouncing off the walls with anticipation for this series. Thanks for pointing out the flaw, Matt. I've been reading up on 15th and 16th century firearms and warfare unrelated to Shogun, so anything set in the period has me geeking out. ♥

[@darkmattergamesofficial]

I am surprised they had a miss this big. I was watching a lot of behinds the scenes content about how pain staking the historical authenticity was in production. I imagine the Japanese side of things will be impeccable. At least I hope!

[@ArtusAcht]

Did you really post a video of less than 5 minutes? Or am I hallucinating?😂 Anyway, love your content, as always

[@dragonlancer1909]

To be fair doglocks are kinda a rare to get a hold of. There kind of a weird intermediate between wheellock and flintlock that not everyone's heard of. (Doglock is also primarly used by the Dutch and English making them more of a niche. I would have at least tried to get a hold of wheelocks pistols that would have been fine historically and a little easier to find.

[@broadbandislife]

Fabricating a credible-looking prop _really_ shouldn't be too much trouble tho. Just throwing in 1700s naval pistols and calling it a day says they just couldn't be bothered. And as far as wheellocks go, historically those were expensive, difficult to maintain and notoriously unreliable in field conditions. Not sure you'd want to sail them across the globe (salty sea air being rather corrosive) and then bet your life on the buggers...

[@Fedaykin24]

@@broadbandislife Considering how meticulous this production has been I highly doubt that they just threw in some 1700 naval pistols without caring. Practicality and safety does need to be considered when we are talking about the use of guns in a television or film production forcing compromises to be made. In the end reproduction dog locks are extremely rare and niche in shooting circles. I shoot black powder and have never seen one myself. The vast majority of the audience would not be able to recognise the difference between a 1600 dog lock and a 1700 flint lock pistol. Reproduction 1700+ flint lock pistols are widely available and affordable. They are also a known equation when it comes to safe operation and if you look carefully the pistols appear to have a percussion cap conversion in some shots which is probably for safety and reliability of operation on set.

[@williamarthur4801]

They made the same mistake in the 1980's series, also when you read the book, it does sound like Yanbu's men are being trained with guns of a much later period as they have bayonets. Havin just looked down the comments I see someone has beaten me to this.

[@Gunbudder]

i'm glad they didn't go totally insane with him shooting 1000 times every episode without reloading. they also didn't go full Last Samurai and have one rifle kill every single person on earth. They kept it to a single episode where Blackthorne goes buck wild with his pistol, but they do have him reloading off screen in about 20 seconds while running during a battle. i don't think that's physically possible to reload an early 1630 flintlock that fast, or even the much later 1700's model they used for filming. the only step they show of him loading is closing the cover on the flash pan before tipping the gun up to point at the ceiling

[@ShuajoX]

Dog locks are new to me. I would have assumed only matchlocks existed at this time. Neat info!

[@The_Reality_Filter]

wheel locks were also around that time too but matchlocks were most prevalent.

[@hjorturerlend]

Flintlocks first appear in the 1540's, the snaplock.

[@hishamg]

Wheellock pistols appear in the early 16th century. There is one in the Royal Armouries that dates to about 1520 (ish). By the late 16th century wheellock pistols are relatively common in Western Europe and are usually used by cavalrymen. From about 1560 to 1600 Western European pistols have a distinctive shape with a noticeable “angle” between the barrel and the handle (grip? I don’t know much about firearms), a large spherical butt or pommel and usually a relatively short barrel. There are plenty of photos on the Met Museum and Royal Armories websites.

[@broadbandislife]

@@hishamg They had just about entirely replaced the ole lance as the cavalry shock weapon by the late 1500s. Main reason they weren't more common was the complexity of the mechanism, essentially a simple clockwork, and due high cost (around the Thirty Years' War a pair cost about as much as a shot-proof cavalry cuirass) and reliability issues in field conditions. (They also inspired some of the first laws against concealed carry as rulers not unreasonably started worrying about would-be assassins with pistols in their pockets.) But getting rid of all the hassle associated with burning slowmatch was _w o r t h_ particularly for mounted men - horses understandably don't like burning things dangling around their ears. Once the assorted teething problems of the diverse early flintlocks got sorted out in the mid-1600s (the French basically consolidated all the good ideas into one sound design) the rather decidedly simpler, cheaper and more reliable lock quickly relegated the fancy wheellock to curio status. As an aside one major use for the assorted early flintlock guns (sometimes known by the umbrella term "firelocks" AFAIK) was the infantry detachments attached to artillery batteries for close defence. Nobody wanted any more lit matches than absolutely necessary near such concentrations of gunpowder after all.

[@secretsquirrel726]

Yeah this is amazing. The Dutch traded the first matchlocks to the Japanese in about 1570. The wheellock seems an incredible artifact to see a sea captain with, but it could have happened. The flintlocks became popular and were mass-produced in about 1650. They had lots of cannons though, and hook guns (hand cannons) were used by infantry. In the 1590's the Spanish captured a Siamese vessel in the Mekong River channel that had hundreds of hook gun barrels ready to be affixed to stocks and used in Cambodia.

[@Bayan1905]

French court gunsmith Marin le Bourgeoys made a firearm incorporating a flintlock mechanism for King Louis XIII shortly after his accession to the throne in 1610. However, firearms using some form of flint ignition mechanism had already been in use for over half a century. The first proto-flintlock was the snaplock, which was probably invented shortly before 1517 and was inarguably in use by 1547. Their cost and delicacy limited their use; for example around 1662, only one in six firearms used by the British royal army was a snaphaunce, the rest being matchlocks. The development of firearm lock mechanisms had proceeded from the matchlock to wheellock to the earlier flintlocks (snaplock, snaphance, miquelet, and doglock) in the previous two centuries, and each type had been an improvement, contributing design features to later firearms which were useful. Le Bourgeoys fitted these various features together to create what became known as the flintlock or true flintlock.

[@scholagladiatoria]

This, however, is a 1700s British sea service pistol 😊

[@Jazzman-bj9fq]

Hey, nice to see you're also into historical firearms!!! Yeah it's unfortunate with film and tv shows where they don't seem to spend much resources on historical accuracy when all a dude would have to do is watch YOUR channel or others with this type of content! Anyway cheers! And it probably (at best) has much to do with whatever weapons prop houses they use and what they have available... They are probably willing to sacrifice a bit in the appropriate prop when the product is at least close when they have a few choices of prop houses whom they trust or like to work with on other projects.

[@WritingFighter]

Noticed rather quickly the pistols in the first episode anyway (and it seems later) are rifled as well, something that would be very rare and unlikely until the 19th century.

[@jackthunderbolt4307]

Matt, if that's the worse thing about the show I'll get on my roof naked and scream the shows praises

[@kyuken893]

Thanks for the video Matt! Out of curiosity is there something present in the design that would preclude its presence? The structure of the pan for example. (As opposed to the general shape and lack of a pommel)

[@scholagladiatoria]

Thanks - as I said in the video, I think that these could be overlooked as being doglocks, based on the quick glimpses I've been able to get from the trailer and posters. But the main problem is the overall outline of the pistol, like having a Broomhandle Mauser in the Crimean War. They just don't look right for 1597-1600.

[@kyuken893]

@@scholagladiatoria interesting, Thanks for the insight.

[@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouries]

They are British Pattern 1716 (at the earliest - they could be Pattern 1801) Sea Service pistols.@@kyuken893

[@afroaesthete3701]

I know next to nothing about guns, and immediately noticed that the gun shown in the first 3 min of the first episode looked wrong for the era. Glad to see I was right (or simply watch too much historical television) lol.

[@BCSchmerker]

+scholagladiatoria *Wheel-locks and dog-locks were the only actions in the muzzleloading pistols o' the Renaissance.* Matchlocks, but not plug bayonets, were common in fusils and musquets exported to the various provinces o' the 大日本帝國 Empire of Greater Japan.

[@dredned]

Early 1600's This pistol from the Pierre Cayla Collection, with this style lock was used mainly by the Dutch, there were also many sold to and used by both sides during the English Civil Wars. It is a typical early military style pistol. Many of these locks have been found in the Seneca Indian Village sites in upper New York. It is a very well balanced, lightweight pistol. The barrel is 14 1/2", octagon to round, in .54 caliber. The lock plate measures 6" x 1 3/4". The throw of the cock is 1 5/8".

[@rene.duranona]

I couldn't tell the difference, but thank you for pointing it out :)

[@i4C4U]

There's a scene in Captain Alatriste where the main characters are wading through water blowing on their matchlock firearms to keep them lit. Really awesome historical movie if you haven't seen it!

[@SirWhiteRabbit-gr5so]

Heh. I noticed the pistols yesterday myself and looked them up. Oopsies. Cocked or uncocked, loaded or not, they're meant as a threat of violence to samurai who wouldn't know the difference. Blackthorne is badly outnumbered in any event if the threat fails. But who wants to die first? "Set phasers to kill."

[@julessavey-bennett4449]

In defence of the show, the 1700s one looks so much cooler

[@Subutai_Khan]

Eh that is all down to taste. I like wheelock pistols etc as well personally.

[@MichaelMcQuown-m6p]

One of the most egregious goofs in a movie was Milady's Lincoln derringer muff pistol. The pity is, the local museum's weapons collection includes several miniature wheellocks which would have been perfect. In a later scene, Athos, confronting Milady, overcranks a full-size wheellock pistol. (Oh -- "3 Musketeers 1976).

[@kellerkind6169]

I am massively looking forward to the series as well as your video reviewing it.

[@hellequingentlemanbastard9497]

At least they weren't percussion cap pistols. Unfortunately I've seen that too in the past.

[@susanoonomikoto9449]

You are absolutely right about it, it should be at least a Tanegashima Tantu (japanese matchlock pistol), for flintlocks is the time periode way too early. But I highly recommend the show its 10/10.

[@Bnio]

To be fair, in context of the scene, Blackthorne might have purposefully left them uncocked. The goal was to intimidate, not actually kill.

[@bonitabromeliads]

I thought the show took place in the 1700's because of the pistols he had. I was surprised to see it took place 100 years before those pistols existed

[@getlostrobyn5498]

The first true flintlock came via French gunsmith marin bourgeoys in 1570 but early prototype flintlock started appearing around 1515. Retraction video required methinks Mat

[@scholagladiatoria]

This is a replica British sea service pistol of the 1700s...

[@spanishjohn420]

the casting is bloody good imo the dude who played blackthorn is exactly how i imagined whereas in the 70s or 80s one the actor was well skinny

[@The10mmcure]

I saw the original mini series in the 80's when I was a kid, they use to show that thing every summer on WLFL 22 in NC, I probably saw it a couple times.

[@michaelbates1640]

It would appear that Blackthorne is wielding a banana that may or may not accidentally contain live ammunition.

[@kenibnanak5554]

There was a Shogun TV Mini series in the 1970s. It was pretty good given the limits of what was allowed on TV in those days.

[@SkunkworksProps]

This is one where I can't get too wound up about it. As others have pointed out there are a few historical inaccuracies in general in the original novel so what I really want is for them to get the feel of it and do the story justice. Even for 10 hour long episodes it's going to be a tough adaptation so I'm just hoping for the best.

[@SirLionel13]

I'm guessing those are holdover props from Black Sails or This Flag Means Death or some such that were easier to get a hold of and they knew that most people watching would never tell the difference anyway

[@somthingbrutal]

the 1980's Shogun TV series is worth watching

[@sackman1886]

The funny thing about this scene in particular is that in the book it described as his consort being handed the guns, and she is pulling the trigger which is making the hammer go back... So I couldn't help but feel the same thing EVEN in the written book knowing that there is no way that any pistol of this time period would have a double-action trigger system. It's fine. It doesn't bother me in the slightest, but I noticed the detail oversight.

[@Zarastro54]

I noticed the flintlock too and I was like “oop, that’s probably not right.”

[@hishamg]

Good video Matt, well spotted. Maybe a video on late 16th century European pistols is in order? Hint, hint?

[@Muschelschubs3r]

I have ignored a lot worse bloopers in many movies. Abd seriously, this is not quite like seeing a Glock...

[@FelixstoweFoamForge]

ohhhh....I'll let them off. (And I'm the sort of geek who goes; "no, no ,no, those regimental buttons are wrong!", or "is that a Lee-Metford in Rourke's Drift instead of a Martini-Henry?"). I'd guess that a Marlborough-period repro was what they could get? And I think, though I could be wrong, that the original series had Richard Chamberlain wielding similar out-of-period flintlocks? Or should we be calling them "Dags" in 1600?

[@tylerschofield]

The difference between a 1600 dog lock pistol and a flintlock 1700 pistol is certainly not as dramatic as the difference between civil war era revolvers to modern day berreta pistol to be fair

[@kenkaplan3654]

It is well known movies make factual errors to increase dramatic effect. The question is how egregious is the error. I understand to an historical gun enthusiast this stands out. In terms of general public it's a tempest in a tea pot. Now if the entire use of cannon was completely wrong, then we have a real problem.

[@MB-st7be]

This seems like a very, very strange oversight from a show that clearly had extreme attention to detail on everything else

[@one_schizfreud]

Dear Matt would you make a video explaining the doglock and it's differences from flintlocks (it looks like a flintlock on wheelock furniture)?

[@MisterKisk]

It's basically a flintlock but with an external catch safety when on half-cock called the "dog" that prevented the flint from falling forward when you primed and loaded the weapon. You'd then put the gun on full-cock which would make the dog rotate out of its position and then you could fire. True flintlocks have an internal sear on the locking mechanism instead so that you don't have to fiddle with anything to make the gun safe to load. You just pull the cock back halfway and then you're ready to flip the frizzen and prime it.

[@one_schizfreud]

@@MisterKisk Thanks but doesn't a normal flintlock have a half cock ?, I guess it's just internal on flintlocks.

[@MisterKisk]

@@one_schizfreudYes, and it's held by an internal sear. The dog is an external catch that you have to manually put in place. So to make a doglock safe to load, you have to fiddle with that small catch first. That's one of the reasons why the later true flintlock was a better design, because it was made safe automatically by putting it on half-cock because of that internal sear.

[@one_schizfreud]

Cool thanks for the explanation I get it now.

[@panzerdeal8727]

Must have been the only ones available. In the Hold of the Erasmas they DID portray matchlock muskets.

[@francishunterd482]

I love your channel! Apologies for the off-topic comment, but I have been trying to discover the specific sword that was issued to WC Churchill when he joined the 4th Queen's Own Hussars in 1895. I appreciate that he scarcely used his sword owing to the shoulder injury he incurred in Bombay the following year, but I would love to find out the weapon he carried nonetheless. Thank you!

[@RickW-HGWT]

He's a time traveler, same as Lucas McCain from " The Rifleman " western series, set in 1875-80 he had a 1893 Winchester. Good call, first time on your channel, I long ago resigned myself to the fact that Hollywood and the media are not credible or honest sources of accuracy or analysis.

[@95DarkFire]

2:56 Interestingly, something like the upper left pistol can be seen in the show. So they did some research atleast.

[@joshuamyers4690]

Reading the title, I thought it said shotgun instead of shogun. Here I was expecting Matt to go on a rant about pistol grip shotguns.

[@50043211]

So, I was right. THX Matt! On the other hand I dont really care as long as the story is good and things dont get to outlandish, like for example, swords cutting through cainmail/plate armour.

[@mr.fetching2267]

I read the novel and I have also seen the miniseries and I thought the miniseries was good and pretty much all you ever needed. Given everything that's happened with remakes and reboots lately I'm kind of pessimistic but I'm open to being pleasantly surprised thanks for the video I wouldn't know this was coming otherwise

[@JacquesLapeyre]

Blackthorn's ship is Dutch, so he'd probably have Dutch pistols. Looking at some images of 17th century Dutch pistols the handles are closer to the pistols Blackthorn is holding, so it's possible they are the closest they could get in terms of general shape. But yeah, even I can tell that those pistols in the show belong in Marlborough army at the earliest.

[@Fedaykin24]

This may not have been a blooper but rather a production convenience, the show makers have put a lot of effort into being period accurate right down to how they sit and the form of Japanese used nevertheless sometimes compromises have to be made for convenience. Doing some searching there are some reproduction dog lock pistols but they appear to be niche and rare, for the show armourer it would be far easier to source reproduction flint locks. The vast majority of the audience when looking at a dog lock pistol would assume it to be a flint lock making the latter close enough. Only specialists would notice the difference.

[@phdtesla8325]

Shogun hired the experts from Japan who studied the era.

[@ravenmaster2007]

In the book, Clavell describes flintlock firearms and sometimes matchlock firearms.

[@MisterKisk]

The flintlock itself is not the problem. They existed in the 1600s (as seen by the Doglock that Matt showed) and even earlier. The problem is its general shape, which is not like any pistol type used in the 17th century.

[@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouries]

Correct. British Sea Service pistols, 1716 at the very earliest. @@MisterKisk

[@dougsinthailand7176]

Since the guns in the hands of the Japanese at that time were mostly if not overwhelmingly matchlocks, we have to ask where these flintlock/doglocks may have come from?

[@broadbandislife]

Europeans brought a _lot_ of stuff with them to Japan, like now firearms in general. Not really the point here tho.

[@ulfhedtyrsson]

Bro looks like he's about to fight for his independence from the crown.

[@alexmiller4850]

I noticed this as well. Should really be using Dutch or possibly spanish pistols from the period (given the Dutch revolt etc) but agree the flintlocks stand out like a sore thumb.

[@CubanWriter]

I seem to recall that the original Shogun had a gun that 'felt' older-fashioned than the one in the trailer. Would love to hear your review of that one, too.

[@traccas01]

Just watched the first 2 episodes and , yep, guy pulls a pistol on another guy with a stock sound of a modern pistol being cocked as he draws it. No sign of him using two hands, and the lock mechanism is not cocked when he puts in in the other guys face. LOL. On saying that Shogun was still a bloody fine watch, and I am looking forward to the rest of the series.

[@JustClaude13]

To be even more nitpicky, Blackthorne should have a Kent accent, since William Adams was from there.

[@shashanktrivedi27]

Sometimes you have to use your imagination and assume things just as European men are conversing in Portuguese while they are speaking in English on the show. Anyways still I appreciate the efforts of maker of this video.

[@SailingPantera]

I quite liked the fact that he turned up with his 50 cal.😂 quantum leap right here.

[@jimmd68]

This is turning into a "the original was better" situation.

[@oskar6661]

It's 2024...prepare to be incredibly disappointed.

[@strobe4570]

as a rule i am very unforgiving of historical firearms inaccuracies . but i also realize that it is difficult to find replica 1600s firearms, so i will let it slide as long as the rest is as good as the mini series that i just re watched , i saw it on tv in the 70s

[@oskar6661]

In a world of 3D printing...there's no longer any excuse for a prop to "not be available".

[@bellatordei3440]

They should have a shogun expert in that Shotgun movie...