Do I REALLY need a light meter for Film Photography?

[@stevenmccaughan2752]

Me and my photography friends have a drinking game one person will point at a subject and another person has to give the exposure if you miss you have to take a drink

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

I'd be in for one hell of a hangover!

[@hoggif]

I used to train estimating light by making my estimate first and checking with light meter after that. After a while I noticed I got pretty good for estimating for B&W but not for something like slides. It was a life saver once when my battery run out and I had a mechanical camera to shoot but with no meter. That being said, for tricky shots, low light, or slides nothing beats a 1 degree spot meter for my subjects like landscapes and architecture. With that you can nail it just right. Especially with expensive film like say 4x5" slides I want to nail it spot on. Sometimes the slides are something like Velvia that is not made any more and I'd hate to bracket. Being on a tripod with slow camera anyway it makes no difference. For pretty constant light quick street snap it is totally another matter.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

It's a good game to play! There was a section that I cut out "Pros and Cons". One of the pros was taking the meter out with you or indoors and seeing if you can guess the metering. I still do that!

[@neal3k]

I shoot most all my pictures outdoors and use Sunny 16 and scale focus for the vast majority. It makes it quick, easy and more fun for me.

[@snapsnappist4529]

Same for me. I was a bit scared of doing it until I found myself outside one day with a camera loaded with slide film and a dead battery. Used Sunny 16 and all shots came out perfectly exposed. Nowadays I trust the technique more than I trust the internal meter on a camera.

[@odukar2315]

For creative photography I use a Spotmeter from Pentax, for Portraits and flashes an incident meter from Sekonic and with my cameras w/o a meter system a TTArtisan Meter. But often the Sunny 16 rules are sufficient.

[@RussellEaling]

Hi Roger, I should have waited a week for this video instead of pestering you after last weeks video about how you metered to get the lightbox exposed correctly. This video explains it all and helps makes sense of metering in a clear and precise way, thank you for this video and the advice you gave last week. Saying that I am going to watch this video about 5 times and take notes and then go and put it into practice.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Your comment was one of few that made me make the video Russell. Email me if you need help.

[@rjbiii]

Do I need a light meter? Nope, because I watched your sunny 16 video like 20 times then took my OM-1 out with no battery in it since the light meter is broken and shot a bunch of rolls and got (mostly) good results lol.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

F8 don't be late! ( I think I said that in that video) Awesome! Glad it worked for you. Give and take the odd frame.

[@TheHambo4]

Excellent video. I used to have the F90x (amongst by Nikon camera gear) and shot many fashion shows with it. It does have an excellent light meter and never let me down. I had a Minolta IVF light meter and hardly used it! Believe me you don't really need a hand held light meter if your camera has an excellent one built in, especially if you're shooting outside of a studio.

[@rawalker666]

got myself one of those lanyards for my little meter great find that Rodger thanks

[@JDCarnin]

I use a Kodalux L (the old and large version) mounted on my Kodak Retina 1a, which, despite its age of about 65 years and the fact that it’s powered by a selenium cell, is absolute spot on. And it is unbelievable comfortable and quick to work with. Just turn the wheel until the mark lines up and you have the chart with the values. Since it displays it like a spreadsheet in two columns instead of round like conventional analog lightmeters it’s super quick to glance at and read the values. I love that thing and it’s a perfect pairing for my favorite camera. The Retina 1a is so small and pocketable for every day carry. Got the version with the f2.8 lens and it even has a flawless documented service history for every 5 years of its life.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

I love those old meters. I have a Sixteen Meter very similar but could't find it after a room sort out. It's a bit out though.

[@anta40]

For me: yes. - Most medium format gears don't have built-in lightmeter. - Sunny 16 and its variants don't work on indoor setting. So? Get a Sekonic/Gossen etc.

[@snapsnappist4529]

I don't use Sunnny 16 indoors myself, but some people do and get good results. Old exposure calculators give an approximate EV of 4 for average nighttime indoor lighting (not the most scientific description, I admit), so if you were to shoot, say Tri-X pushed 1 stop to 800ISO, you might get away with f2.8 at 1/30s.

[@jamesjacocks6221]

Personally, I use the Sunny Sixteen exposure system only when my meter won't work. S16 can work, but I feel it works best when applied by very experienced eyes so wouldn't be the best choice for beginners. It has simplicity working for it but, superficially, anyone can play the piano. If the beginner is using the system, an outlier is the possibility that the student will be discouraged by the results. If you can find a complete table of values that calculates the exposure settings all the way to night scenes, that is most useful since meters are sketchy in near darkness.

[@Jerry10939]

I think everyone who does photography should have a light meter. Yes, some cameras have great light meters. But generally I think a light meter should be something in their kit. Like you said it doesn’t need to be expensive.

[@ianlainchbury]

Absolutely perfect Roger... I was going to ask about incident/reflected. Perfect! Many thanks :)

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Glad it was helpful! And thanks again Ian! Email me if you need

[@robertgordon6362]

Excellent explanation and illustration.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Thanks Robert. 👍

[@lorrainehealy1811]

Love that new jacket, Rog!

[@FerrisThomas]

Great stuff on incident v reflective, Rog. Well done.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Cheers Ferris.

[@bigshooter461]

Great video, I will be sure to share this with those who ask about light meters in the future, I get approached often when out shooting so it will be a great resource to share. I've shot many cameras and had all kinds of different meters in all of them, I do quite enjoy cameras that offer automation, that said I also have several other light meters and do use a Sekonic as well when shooting cameras with no metering at all like the old Mamiya C20 or a Fuji GSW690II. The Mamiya is an incredible tool and makes some spectacular images with incredible depth even with Kentmere 100 which some film snobs consider Cheap film, I give ultimate credit to proper exposure and that is in great part to the utility of my light meter, I also do switch from spot to incident depending of the light and where my subject is, in it. I will second your praise for the Nikon F90X, I am not a Nikon guy at all, although I do have a few of them FTN,FE,FG,FG20, and the F90X, which I can't say enough about for it's fantastic metering capabilities and versatility.. I think one of the nicest things about having a good meter like the sekonic or any meter that allows for incident and spot metering is how much you learn about the way film or a sensors see light, our eyes adjust quite quickly and it can often seem much brighter than it really is, I find a hand held meter most useful in low light situations or for metering in shadows.it is also fantastic for shooting with filters like R72 where you need to compensate 5 or 6 stops with some film like Rollei IR. I love that folder you were shooting, I have a few that I have been restoring for use I have a 35mm Balda with a 50mm f3.5 loaded with some black and white I need to finish off and develop. Thanks again for a great video!

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Thanks for the comment! Great to hear you are restoring the old folders! The f90X is a crazy camera for its price. So much inside with a great meter. I also switch between spot and incident if it's bright. Usually spot the shadow and go over a couple of stops.

[@wdb1932]

Yes, yes I do.

[@user-ve3gh5xg9q]

Boss Roger and Mike Browne my favorite photog🇬🇧raphers💪

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

😊

[@andyvan5692]

this is the reason for the feature of exposure LOCK, on the digital cameras, you use the 3D metering system (reflective), and meter the grass (zone 5 {18% grey}) and LOCK exposure, recompose, and shoot; one other compelling reason to get one, I shoot LF, a sinar F2 so I need to know not just exposure, but if any glare or flare is present, so whether or not to use ND or polarising filters; so a SPOT meter is my friend too, it shows what zone I have in my scene, what contrast is there (for film printing), and, for my Hasselblad 500c\m what EV it is, so here I can set ev and shoot at what ever shutter or aperture I need or want, still safe in the knowledge my film is safe, it will be exposed correctly, so saving my $17 for the roll.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

The price tag at the end! Crazy times.

[@andyvan5692]

@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss thats Australian dollars!, and thats not all, try 4x5" sheet films, at $138 for a 10 or 25 sheet box!, thats crazy, but some say we are to, but we are photographers who love our hobby, even if we all don't make money off it, it becomes a good stim, even for those not on the Autism spectrum, it helps us calm ourselves, get exercise, do something good for 'us', not our others, or bosses, just something to give ourselves pride, we did it. the feeling sometimes is just worth all the costs, for the serenity it gives us.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

@@andyvan5692 Absolutely!

[@aristoioannidis7490]

Excellent tutorial Roger!

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Glad you liked it

[@michaelkonkel4394]

Which app do you use for metering? Thanks for the video!

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

It's called AP Light Meter. Does the job well mostly after a bit of calibration. (I used my handheld meter to calibrate it).

[@WintherKl]

Thanks

[@rick-fstop-lewis]

Great video Roger! A nice broad spectrum look at the topic of metering. And the answer to the question is, It depends. LOL I use the tools at my disposal that will enhance my ability to achieve the desired outcome based on the situational variables. ROFL

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Like how much loo roll you beed after spicy food? 😂

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

*need

[@rick-fstop-lewis]

@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss 🤣😂Exactly.

[@largophoto]

Roger ..the Astohori old dog here ...I still go by your hat rule..which is even more accurate .,..if you're hat is on its probably a hot possibly a sunny day and will be 250 th at f8.3 ...if your hat is off and the light is flat it will be 60 th at f6.7 ..I think spot meter is a bit extreme ..and only has relevance it you point towards a grey card ..other wise the photogs can take three shots if it is so critical

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Hey Nick! Yeah that day you got that meter out your pocket I had never seen one before! Then Astrhori sent me one!

[@NeilGould]

Wonderful video Roger and are you still riding that push bike? You’re disappearing faster than my Rodinal 👍.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

I've not been on it for a couple of weeks but I pumped the tyres up last night Neil! I've lost about a stone and a half mostly given up the booze!

[@pietro-viecelli]

Great stuff! I ordered myself the original Astrhori one to use with my medium format cameras as they don't have meters.. Been using an app so far, but that's a bit annoying..

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Sounds great! You'll love it.

[@SnowmansApartment]

i am always wondering if it is possible to just be very good at guessing the values. It feels like something you could learn to be good at

[@bigshooter461]

you do get to understand better what light you have and how conditions like being in open shadow from buildings in mid day sun affects how much light you still have, a meter is a great aid in this for confirming or informing when you are close or way off.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

I know a few that literally shoot like that and yes you can learn it. Like I did around the boats except I used the meter to start and then shot away. If the light changed I would go up or down a stop - whichever I felt was right. But here's the question... A client has paid them for the shoot. They would probably get the meter out to be on the safe side. So I think fundamentally it's a good practice, professionally, not so. But it is a fun game to play guessing the light... and useful if you forget your meter and phone!

[@noofynumbskull]

Got one of those zeiss cameras ,still good

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Great aren't they!

[@SloopJohnBee-vq6dw]

My phone meter app is rubbish compared with my old 1950s meter! But to be honest I rarely use either for reasons you said. 👍📸

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Yes, it's handy to keep on your phone it's helped me out a few times Sloop. Unless your battery is nearly duff 🥴

[@davidjenkins8009]

Hi Roger, I think that was a really very good video. The only thing that you really could have added would have been useful is to have talked about dedicated flash and how the camera can meter that. You did talk about subject failure and it may have been useful to students if you had mentioned that term as they may come across it in their studies. You know I am a very critical person but as I said, an excellent video and I enjoyed watching it. Also, your enthusiasm is always good to see. Keep it up.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Thanks David. TTL Flash?. I didn't get into that as I don't ever use it but thanks for the heads up.

[@davidjenkins8009]

@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss You are most welcome, I always enjoy your channel. Your enthusiasm is really grate to see and I hope you never take my comments to heart too much. KR

[@josephasghar]

Spot meter every time. I wouldn’t leave home without it.

[@fintonmainz7845]

If you have a mirrorless or dslr, can you use that as a "light meter"?

[@drtools9226]

Yes or an lightmeter app ;) or sunny 16 rule ;)

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

I mentioned that in the video, something I used to do before I had a dedicated meter. Studio was okay but taking two cameras out for a landscape was a faff though.

[@mrca2004]

When I use a light meter, I get consistent negatives and that makes camera scanning go really fast.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Very true!

[@chucknology_]

I've always found that color film is way more forgiving than black and white. Portra for example has almost 7 full stops of dynamic range.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

It is Chuck! When I first shot colour film I couldn't believe the dynamic range especially shadow detail.

[@m00dawg]

It's weird to see Roger sitting on the proper side of the car ;)

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

😂 I just realised I should have flipped the video! You should have seen my face looking for my vlog camera! I drove 45 mins to location! You know you've left it at home but you still check every pocket and compartment just in case ha ha

[@m00dawg]

@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss I thought you did that on purpose :) Or we'll say you did. Stylistic choice to appeal to us goofy Americans maybe? ;)

[@michaelcase8574]

If you ever shoot slide film, always use an incidental light meter. It will give you consistantly excellent results. If you shoot color film, explore a light temperature meter. They will give you accurate, consistent color at any time of the day. A gossen color meter and proper filters are very inexpensive and are all over E bay. In digtal cameras, whte balance does this for you

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Shooting 99% BW I never knew there was a light meter specifically for colour film! Thanks!

[@IainHC1]

Aye John...... Got a new motor???!!

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

it's petrol And the radio works! 😂

[@user-ve3gh5xg9q]

Yes. Why not

[@scrptwic]

Somebody gave me a Minolta light meter I had no use for it until I got a Pentax Spotamatic SP11 with a bad light meter Photographing the moon with my DSLR is interesting in the metering my Pentax K3-11 wants to raise the ISO up to 6400 if I photograph it at that it comes back looking like a flashlight I have to put the camera in manuel mode drop the ISO to 100, 400 for my shutter speed and F-8 for aperture for a proper espourser of the moon

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Yes it would do. Your cameras meter is picking up the light spreading off the moon and opening up to expose for that too making your main subject (The Moon) really bright. I'm not even sure how I would expose for the moon to be honest! I'd probably use my spot meter. But if I didn't have one... Possibly like you. Meter for it and go down a few stops. Well done.

[@impressionsoflight9263]

You don’t need a meter with flash. Aperture = Guide number/distance. If you’re flash has a guide number of 32, subject is 3 meters from the flash, your aperture will be f11 @iso 100. Change your iso to 200, the aperture will be f16, change your flash to half power, your aperture will be f8 @iso 100. Much quicker than fluffing around with meters, especially when shooting a wedding on film.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Love the rule. My Olympus T20 and Nikon SB-20 has guides which are useful. Of course you wouldn't meter each shot once you know your power, settings and distance for candid moments off the cuff but I would though if I was setting up a larger family group with strobes or a portrait of the couple - Just to be correct. Especially with a white dress. I guess that comes down to experience if you're shootings weddings each weekend. You'd know exactly what works.

[@danem2215]

Sunny 16 or a full minute spot metering every bit of a scene, I know what my ADHD ass is choosing.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

😂 And just when you think you're good to go someone near you opens a bag of crisps!