Shooting 120 film in a Speed Graphic! - 3x4 pre-1955 SpeedGraphic with medium format roll film back

Found this beauty on Craigs List while I was out in Alaska, along with a 120 back!
I've been on the lookout for a Speed Graphic for quite while, so that I can mount barrel lenses and shoot 4x5 sheets using the focal plane shutter.
When I got to Alaska I had a spin through Craigs List, to see what was going on there, and I saw these really bad photos of what looked like Speed Graphics, but the guy selling didn't know what they were and didn't know how to open them, and had taken photos from the back! The ad initially had $20 on it, but I was never going to pay him that for a Speed Graphic in good condition. That would just be mean.
I messaged him though, and agreed to meet. He had a huge box of stuff from his late father in law I think, which included a 4x5 Speed Graphic in ok condition, this 3x4 Speed Graphic in excellent condition, and he also had a Baby Speed Graphic, and a whole box of other bits and bobs.
I showed him how to open them, explained what they were and how they worked, said I wanted the 4x5 and the 3x4 and told him what they were worth, explaining that they were untested so it was a bit of a risk on my part.
I paid him upwards of $150, which was a lot more than he was expecting and I felt like a good deal for me, bearing in mind there was a fair bit of risk on my part. I was able to check the bellows of course, and test the shutters, and check the lenses for fungus, and all looked ok. But you never know until you test them!
I told him what he should be asking for the Baby Speed Graphic as well, but I decided not to take that one from him, because I would only be buying it to clean it up and sell for profit when I got back. And I sort of felt that wouldn't be quite right. So I left it with him, hopefully he got a good price for it.
Then I tested the 3x4 (actually 3.25 x 4.25 inch, or quarter plate), all seemed ok, but the rangefinder wasn't filling me with confidence. I went to Home Depot, bought some clear plastic and some sandpaper, and set about measuring and sanding. And I'm pleased to say... I works!
I'm pretty happy with the results, they're sharp and in focus. What more can you ask for??
Let me know what you think, drop me a message.

[@toomanyhobbies8119]

A warning for those considering purchasing 3x4" cameras: a conversation with WD Service about this revealed that there were no roll-film backs mounted on 3x4" inserts with the pin-rollers so critical for film sharpness. The problem may be subtle and hard to deduce at first because it might appear to be just field curvature or some aberration.

[@the120ist]

Really interesting, I didn't know that. I have a couple of roll film adapters, haven't noticed any bowing or aberration. Was it a specific make of roll film adapter?

[@toomanyhobbies8119]

@@the120ist I found this in a graflex post I’ll have to look for it

[@andyvan5692]

hey, you should do a polaroid test (lomografflok back) to check the focus, as this system is based on a cam\lever and the infinity stop on the track, if either is off ( or the whole camera has been knocked about- the colamation of the prisms\mirrors), then that RF focus is out to!! ( plus the gg lomografflok back spacer is Correct for this back-made at the factory) so you have a good reference system to base any adjustments on.

[@the120ist]

I'd love to do do that test, and I've seen polaroid backs for sale... but can you still get the polaroid film for the backs?? I thought that was the peel apart stuff that hasn't been made for a long time?

[@andyvan5692]

@@the120ist yes!, but NOT the fuji fp100C, that is 5 years gone now, what the back takes is the fuji instax wide film, for those plastic wide cameras, which is the type which has the auto develop in print, no peel and goo to deal with, just the 'packs' dark slide'.

[@johnpinner1]

Brings back memories of Ft Greeley in the artic we used speedgraphic without lubricant on the shutters

[@the120ist]

Wow! I bet that showed up any creaking parts!

[@rigbyUnbound]

love your attitude.. excited fot the FUTURE!

[@the120ist]

Woop! Here's to the future my friend! Lots of good stuff coming!

[@GoAmateurRadio]

The scrapyard photos were very nicely done.

[@the120ist]

Thank you!

[@jeremyharris8796]

Cool video. I was just given a 3x4 Speed Graphic in pretty good shape. Along with a bunch of film holders. Thinking of getting some film, and trays to develop myself in the tub.

[@the120ist]

Do it! There's plenty of options still around in 3x4, you can get sheet film, glass plates, tin types, you name it! And that Speed Graphic is a great little camera. Don't wait, go buy some film today!

[@brineb58]

Great job!!! I have a 6x9 as well ... mine had a GG back as well as the roll film holder ... You did a great job making it work with you bit!!!

[@the120ist]

Ah! If I had a ground glass then I could she saved myself all the grief! But mine came only with the film back. Needs must!

[@redsphoto6708]

Haha oh jeez you went and diy'ed a groundglass, super creative to do that especially when you were limited with tools lol. Knowing me I'd have been lazy and splurged on an overpriced original screen on ebay. (aside: if you ever want a custom actual glass ground glass, Rick Oleson BrightScreen does wonderful work. I have ordered several from Rick) Those pictures ended up sweet. I really need to come up with a similar setup someday. I love my 6x9 folders but that additional guarantee of focus/framing with the ground glass produces wonderful results

[@the120ist]

Thanks! I was pretty happy with how they turned out actually, and more than a little surprised! I get off on cutting corners and making things even when there might be commercial options available. Plus I was in Alaska, and getting anything slightly off mainstream delivered up there takes ages, and can cost a fortune. So I came up with a plan, and for once it worked! I actually have a Rick Oleson screen for my Bronica. I love it, Rick really does work some magic. His screens are awesome. Keep an eye out on eBay etc for those 3x4 Speed Graphics, they sell pretty cheap because no one shoots quarter plate any more. The 120 backs can be kinda pricey, but if you find yourself a Speed Graphic, give me a shout, I have a spare 120 back you can have!

[@redsphoto6708]

@@the120ist oh sheesh that's a generous offer, will keep your kindness in mind if I ever myself in need of a roll back. Thank you! Speaking of plates, who knows maybe if one really wanted a shot, they could ask someone like Zebra Glass Plates etc to make some in that size (speaking of which as a stray plug I love their youtube channel kzbin.info/door/kgsi_Pxixghd8xluKSs9eQ)

[@photobooksandrecords]

What a find! What a beautiful camera! I’d love that camera.

[@the120ist]

I know right! I was more interested in the 4x5, but then I started thinking about the possibilities of this 3x4 and I'm actually pretty excited about it. Plus it's in much better condition than the 4x5, similar age, but this one is pretty much mint. Lens shutter could clearly do with a service... but the focal plane shutter is purring like a kitten!

[@eligriggs9221]

Share the design/specs for making our own g.g. for one of these setups, please. I just bought a Pre-Anniversary Speed Graphic and i enjoyed the modifications you made to shoot roll film, something i've done with similar 120/220 film holders on 4"x5" studio cameras.

[@marxoniomizu]

That really was a fun video. One could see how much you enjoyed working with that camera. The panF worked nice in that setting. I just bought a 3rd back for my s2a to tear it apart and fit a ground glass where the film back plane would be. I hope that finally answers whether I am to dumb to focus (more likely) or the bronica has a focusing issue. Thanks to your video I know the concept works ☺️. Thanks for sharing, it is very inspiring.

[@the120ist]

Glad you enjoyed it! I really did enjoy shooting with the camera. I don't know why but it seems the harder I have to work to get a camera functioning, the more I enjoy shooting with it! If it just works then I find it less inspiring. Maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment! Best tip I can give you is make your measurements from the film plane, and make sure the ground glass is exactly where the film would be. So what I didn't show you in this video is that I took measurements from the pressure plate behind the dark slide. I just waved the film back in the video, but important to take the dark slide out and measure from the pressure plate behind it, as that is where the film is going to sit. I'll have another S2A focusing video coming out very soon, I'm about to take mine apart again! Good luck with your ground glass plan, please do let me know how you get on with it, I'm interested to hear the outcome!

[@moonolyth]

Getting this one from ebay, thought it was the 4x5😢. Should I resell?? And get my 4x5 or keep this little critter? Will definitely make a glass back for it eather way! Thanks man❤

[@the120ist]

@@moonolyth tough call… did the seller not mention it was the 3x4? Or did you misread? When I got that one I didn’t know much about speed graphics, thought it was a bit weird that it seemed smaller but didn’t realise until later what it actually was! If it wasn’t properly labelled I would send it back. If you’re stuck with it then tough call. The 3x4s don’t sell as well as the 4x5s. It’s an uncommon format, you won’t find much, if any, sheet film being sold in this size. You can cut down x-day film, or shoot paper or paper negatives. Film holders are hard to find as well. Roll film backs, like I was shooting here, are kinda rare but they do come up. They do give you some nice options with this camera, but eventually, imo, they just become a very bulky MF camera. I sold mine fairly shortly after this video. I can’t say I’ve missed it much. Maybe occasionally. The 4x5 is a much much more widely supported format. Everything is easier to find in 4x5!

[@tedphillips2951]

I would be surprised to find that you are not an engineer the way you approach things. I was in Fairbanks, Alaska several years ago to document building damage in an apartment complex. It was in the winter & I had to plug the car into an outlet so the engine block would not freeze. Too cold for me. Do you think it would be possible to modify a lomograflok 4x5 instant back on this camera? Love your utube videos!

[@the120ist]

Alas I'm not an engineer! Have another guess! I do enjoy finding solutions to problems that don't cost me a fortune though. In reality this focusing screen was very crude... It's hard to see in the video, but the screen is pretty untidy. I literally had no tools with me! I bought the clear plastic, some glue, sandpaper and a metal ruler from Home Depot, and cut the plastic by scoring over and over with a scalpel. It's functional, but it ain't pretty! I haven't made it up to Fairbanks on any of my trips to Alaska, sadly, but some of my team were up there and were reporting back on the temperatures. It is crazy cold up there. Coldest city in North America I believe. I would have like to have got up there just to experience it! I can't immediately see how you would adapt a lomograflok 4x5 instant to work on this. Your problem is going to be focusing. Even if you could add a plate to allow the back to sit light-tight in the 3x4 slot, you would have shifted the film plane back by maybe 4-5mm, so a ground glass screen would no longer work for you. You could perhaps adjust the rangefinder, essentially mis-calibrate it... or you could create a new ground glass like the one I created, but spaced to sit that extra distance back from the camera to match the adapted back. Anything is possible! But you might be better just getting a 4x5 Speed Graphic and saving you the hassle!

[@andyvan5692]

one other tip, as this camera has a curtain shutter, in such sunny conditions (backlit), you could have used this, as it offers you 1\1000th of a second, or at least faster than the 1\100th or 1\200th shutter speed of the leaf shutter in the lens, so you can get the aperture closed down a bit!! to reduce hotspots.

[@the120ist]

You know what, I was, and still am, really nervous with this, and my other Speed Graphic, about cranking the tension on that curtain shutter up to get high shutter speeds. I'm terrified I'm going to break it! I still haven't had the balls to take it much faster than about 1/320. What do you think? Is it a risk? Can those tensioning springs give out?

[@GK-vj9dz]

what i did with my 4x5 super graphic (with a 6x9 back) is just take the 6x9 window, and trace it on the super graphic's gg in pencil. works like a charm for composition. good job, but way over-engineered. :)

[@the120ist]

Over engineered.. that's my middle name! Nothing like making a job much harder than it needs to be! I actually didn't get a GG with this camera though, so tracing the frame on it not an option. So I did need a ground glass of some sort. Whether I needed to spend several days making my own sub-standard version out of plastic is another question!

[@Nick_r]

That performed rather well in colour for a 1955 lens. Looks like you did ok with that deal. At some stage it might be worth calibrating the rangefinder it does save the hassle of a sheet over your head.

[@the120ist]

I know right? How about that! I was very impressed! Calibrating the rangefinder is the next job on the list, now that I'm back. Didn't have any tools with me while I was travelling, bodging together a sheet of plastic was the best I could do!

[@paultaylorphotography9499]

Top result mate large format is something I've never tried, but it looks Interesting looking forward to seeing you use that 5x4

[@the120ist]

Thanks mate! I'm looking forward to trying the 4x5 too. Currently getting some lens boards made for it, so I can use some of my antique lenses with it! You need to start warming to the large format... you know you'll do it eventually!

[@paultaylorphotography9499]

@@the120ist already looking through opshops and auction sites 😟😂😂📷❤️

[@the120ist]

@@paultaylorphotography9499 Good man! Look forward to seeing your first outing on 4x5 when you find one!

[@paultaylorphotography9499]

@@the120ist gonna need a bigger van to transport the bugger 🚐❤️📷

[@the120ist]

@@paultaylorphotography9499 Ha ha! You'll be giving up your bed to camera storage space!

[@TrashTheLens]

I'm on a lookout for cheap focusing screens for use in calibrating focus on various cameras, so your persplex solution really piqued my interest. Did you find a one-side frosted persplex somewhere, did you grind it yourself, or did you add some diffusing material on top of it? Also, how's the fineness of this solution - if looked at through a magnifier, would you say it is be fine enough to precisely calibrate a 35mm camera?

[@the120ist]

On this one I got a piece of clear plastic (all I could find in a hurry) and sanded down one side of it. So total cost was a few dollars. But... it is by no means perfect. I can definitely see when things are in focus and when they're not, but I have to see past the deep scratches. You could definitely do a better job of it though, there will be an optimum sandpaper grit, and duration / roughness of sanding. If I wanted to try again my next attempt would be better. If you're looking for cheap, this is a good way to go. You can 100% tell when sharp focus is achieved (provided you have a loupe/magnifying glass, and perhaps a dark cloth if it's sunny, unlike me!). Maybe get a sheet of clear plastic and a few grades of sandpaper and try some stuff! I tried sanding glass before I went for the plastic, with poorer results. I was able to get a decent enough frosting on the glass, but it would have taken more patience than I had to get it hazy enough to work. It was a much finer haze though, if you know what I mean. I'm sure I've read articles about doing this, sanding plastic to use as a focus screen. I'm sure someone has done these tests for us already!

[@TrashTheLens]

@@the120ist Thank you for your detailed reply. Sanding pieces of plastic is the way I was thinking to go, but seeing your video I got a glimmer of hope that maybe you have discovered a mystical ready-made and readily available ground plastic no one else had noticed before. Well, sandpaper it is then. Thanks!

[@thomasboone1356]

Modify the rollback to work on that size camera

[@the120ist]

I was lucky enough to get a roll film back made for this size camera. They relatively easy to come by, this one I was using here was a Graflex 23. Dimensions were already correct for 4x3.

[@svogt_36]

These scans are so dirty...

[@the120ist]

I know right... I was away from home, had to get the film developed and scanned at a shop. Not the best!