SHOOTOUT! 2021 Ski-Doo Summit X 850 Turbo vs 2021 Polaris Pro RMK 850

It's time for a good ol fashioned SNOWTRAX shootout! Luke presents his detailed comparison of Ski-Doo's 2021 Summit X 165 with the Expert package featuring the 850 Turbo engine vs. the 2021 Polaris Pro RMK featuring the Patriot 850 engine and QuickDrive 2 belt drive system.
#LetsRide #ThatSkiDooFeeling #SNOWTRAXTV
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ABOUT SNOWTRAX TV
SNOWTRAX airs thirteen episodes from December to April and has established itself as the most watched snowmobile television series in North America.
Each week the SNOWTRAX crew guides viewers through an informative and entertaining half hour revealing the inside scoop on the latest snowmobiles, accessories and riding destinations that make snowmobiling winter's greatest adventure sport.
Affiliated with national broadcasters such as OLN and Sportsman Channel in Canada and Outdoor Channel in the United States, SNOWTRAX effectively reaches over 72 million national households with 24 million of those households being located in the North American snow belt.
SNOWTRAX has and will continue to attract and retain viewers by virtue of its unique, informative and entertaining cinematic format.
SNOWTRAX 2021 evaluates all the top snowmobiles and snowmobile products like the 2021 Polaris snowmobiles, Yamaha snowmobiles, 2021 Ski Doo and Arctic Cat snowmobiles. Some evaluations include such vehicles as the Ski Doo 850 Turbo, Yamaha Sidewinder Turbo, Polaris Khaos 850, Yamaha Mountain Max 2021, Ski Doo Expedition Extreme, Yamaha Nytro, Yamaha Viper, Polaris Titan and more!

[@arsxs04]

The skidoos feel like tanks to me. Every time I switch sleds with my buddies out on the mountains, I immediately want to jump back on my Pro RMK.

[@jrod264winmag]

My old lady is a 3” rider!

[@akbiomech]

congrats!

[@jrod264winmag]

@@akbiomech 3 inches hurts at 90 miles an hour

[@Lilnuts287]

ur lady rides ur 3” what?😂

[@manley2517]

When I hear "shootout" I'm thinking riding both sleds, same day, same conditions and reporting the results. Not industry expert opinions and math.

[@brettorton2363]

That’s what they did but they added both 🤡🤡🤡

[@pavmentsurfer13]

Umm, I did ride both on the same day. Just didnt get footage of it.

[@jayfxdx]

Very interesting comparison, lots of great points made! I remember the Rotax engines being Skidoo's strong point for decades while really slugging it out with Polaris in the chassis/handling department. Apparently this is still the narrative.

[@davidshoemaker4195]

Had a couple of old blizzard 9500 back in the day, go fast in straight line but beat u to death turning, good times

[@oldwrench4213]

Excellent diagnosis. Weight always has greater impact than horsepower. My preference for lower horsepower sleds is for the reasons mentioned here. Very well done SnowTrax !

[@johnclark8309]

The best example of this I saw was up at arctic man the year skidoo came out with the summit 174. There was a souped up nitro there that was supposedly putting out 300+hp, and on a hillclimb the n/a doo walked away from the nitro.

[@riotsdelirium8021]

Polaris guys : “ great shootout guys love seeing the unbiased reviews “ Skidoo guys : “ unbiased ... sure you are just paid to say that my doo makes all kinds of power Cat guys : “ hey he said ALPHA!!! WAHOOO,!!!

[@208SledHead]

Cat needs more love :(

[@BeyondResolution]

@@208SledHead no.. it is so superior that it's no use making a shootout with it.. ;)

[@boser1212]

I bought an alpha because of all the hype. The 2020 motor is great, the single rail is a powder eating monster. Climbs like craZy but man does it wash out in steep terrain. My skill level is starting to exceed the alpha rails ability. Sad cause I love the sled, so easy to ride in deep deep snow.

[@gumballer133]

@@boser1212 We must be riding 2 different sleds here. My Alpha isn't what I expected. It digs ditches like a Caterpillar excavator and gets pulled on by a plain Jane Ski doo in the deep stuff. And I'm a Cat guy, I have 8 of them, 3 I bought brand new so nobody can say I'm not brand loyal. Buts its wearing on me.

[@riotsdelirium8021]

@@boser1212 I bought the riot x sled is perfect for what I use it for the alpha rail makes it so much more playful and fun to handle love it

[@sledon9105]

After 1100 km skidoo definitely wins the power to weight ratio when Polaris is blown up😂😂

[@nathanyates3821]

did anyone ask

[@nathanyates3821]

@@kyledejong8816 No one asked for your reply

[@The2000redrocket]

Well I don't know anyone with a 800 skid that doesn't have a factory crank replacement. Soo let's see the 850 over time.

[@MrBigbennybang]

Great shoutout Luke ! Thanks SnowTrax TV

[@snowtrax]

Thank you!

[@mattgame84]

Crazy that the snowmobile community doesn't love this competition. Always fan boy this and fan boy that. If it wasn't for multiple brands we wouldn't get this innovation. Thank you snowtrax for continue to push the industry to the next level.

[@clintweimer3488]

Great job on the Vid!, it just reaffirms my decision on my first Polaris product, they are simply making a great sled right now

[@alachon205]

I want to see a mountain sled win a sled of the year

[@pajamatime5750]

Could watch a new shootout every. Single. Day!!! Thanks guys!

[@snowtrax]

Thank you!!

[@davidhaley7053]

Beautiful camera work. Looks like great fun!

[@williamgahagan9024]

Great video but I was wondering why the alpha one and Yamaha‘s mountain sled weren’t there. Was it just a follow up from 2018 shootout or you didn’t have them on hand or are summit and the RMK just so much better thanks

[@fredbishop9434]

How is it that Ski Doo manages to make one of the coolest looking machines on the snow and also make it the ugliest? 🤣

[@owenbrunet1279]

i really wanted the summit am a huge can am person but I cant get over how the Polaris looks so much better. im sad that the summit doesn't look more aggressive

[@patrizioposteraro6651]

In my opinion im a polaris guy for life

[@Mostromstunt]

I think it looks great with the light weight hood

[@Trad-Am]

Well the looks went a little backwards on the new matryx chassis body lines, I prefer my axys, but the tunnel is slick as hell, and would love it on my axys.

[@MrWookie1981]

I have the 2021 Khaos and absolutely love riding the machine but in a month and a half I am $850 into bent and broken parts. I do believe the weight savings have come at a cost of durability. But I still love riding it.

[@JasonTylerS]

Yea and then when your motor blows at 1300 miles and costs thousands. That's what happened to me. Ski Doo feels a lot nicer made than my Polaris did.

[@JimmySeahawk]

Polaris is known for reliability issues. I have a 2013 polaris sportsman 850 and the timing gear spun on the crank. It was a defect from the factory but i was stuck with the bill. I would stick with BRP if you want reliability and better build quality.

[@MrWookie1981]

@@JasonTylerS should be covered under warranty unless you barely ride it. I have not had any problems other than regular maintenance and rings on any of my skidoos or Polaris machines in the past knock on wood.

[@braaap5.7]

@@JimmySeahawk brp is only good if u do maintenance. Let me tel ya, I got an 07 renegade 800 lol when u have power maintenance is done a lot more

[@pavmentsurfer13]

@@JimmySeahawk Remember when Can am Power steering systems would randomly go FULL lock left... that was fun.

[@hedemalmcarl]

Im still staying on Skidoo, i like the refinement of just everything, when they make new big stuff they only do small things that makes it a good experience, like the lighter and easier to use throttle with less flop, flexible handguards with the accesory and the tMotion suspension with the flexedge track. It makes it really easy to carve despite the weight penalty that im fine with. Everythings just really refined. Fuel efficiency, The lack of most 2 stroke smell and smoke and the maintenance free pDrive clutch.

[@neb4x4]

And I just had a smile Saturday when my friends kids cruised around on my 1980 artic cat kitty cat! Lol

[@kenbouchard7798]

Really enjoy this video , I like numbers , quick question , I saw the Doo have a shot start , do the Pro you tested had a electric starter if not what would be the additional weight on the Pro, thank you

[@brianfrisselle5227]

Thank you for this shootout video. I found the information helpful and interesting. I live and ride in Colorado and do all my riding between 9000 and 12000ft. Would you still prefer the RMK at these riding altitudes?

[@ridersride1]

The one thing I never hear about is durability 3 Poo's down this season in my crew1 motor 2 tunnels. There light and yes, ride killer but you rub a tree, or hit the tunnel RMK crumples like a beer can. Super fun light weight but not that tough.

[@mordicuspb]

Dont hit trees

[@arthuraces5573]

Polaris is trash. Switch to skidoo. Youll never go back.

[@dylanlow1184]

What a joke, I have riden both sleds around revel stoke & the doo pulls way harder then the Polaris. Not to mention but the quality and durability of a ski doo beats the crap out of a Polaris. Love how you barely talked about the specifics of the new turbo setup on the skidoo which is the biggest update to the mountain industry but couldn’t stop talking about the q2 and a new track on the Polaris. Joke. I like Polaris and agree they have a great sled but man ski doo has to take the cake in this shootout.

[@marknewman8609]

Exactly. I get it, he was using science numbers but the fact is the real world test in bottomless powder of Revy the polaris can NOT keep up at all. I will say on the spring days with hardpack conditions the Skidoo rider is left gassed and tired out wayyyy sooner the the polaris rider due to the weight.

[@Kanakid]

Thanks Luke! Great video! Objective and factual, I like that.

[@snowtrax]

Thank you!!

[@travisdavies8039]

Thanks Luke and snowtrax. Love watching the video. Like always unbiased. Looking forward to the 137 shootout. Great work!!

[@snowtrax]

Thank you!

[@jimmiller7361]

Do you have any idea what the fuel mileage is for the 2021 Polaris 650 and 850 Matryx VR1 in normal ridding conditions?? Any help would be appreciated, thank you.. I never had ANY ambition to biy a new sled until now... I'm still on my 03 beaver tail😂😂😂.. Thanks again.

[@jipper2822]

Great review of both sleds.

[@jc9601]

Rode sicamoose yesterday, had a tbo 175, my rmk 19 163 2.6 and a 20 165 expert. The tbo could beat the rmk on long pulls, no questions there, the rmk spools up faster and will win in short burst. We swapped sleds, I liked the thick power off the tbo but that's about it, the stance with your feet all the way forward in the sterips is very wide, hard on the hips, the brake lacks braking power and feels spongy, due to the rotor mounted on the drive shaft vs the jackshaft, tbo is a BIG sled, heavy, and the stearing is very weird when trying to counter steer. The doo rider rode the rmk, said the throttle responce was great, power was a little less, but he was worn out cause he kept falling off, said it come on its edge to easy and it would take time to readjust to its lightness. The rmk is like riding a dirt bike the tbo doo is like riding a adventure motorcycle.

[@justinkroker5093]

You guys should do a video on how fast you can get a 900 ace turbo and sidewinder/thundercat with turbo dynamics or precision efi, etc tuning. Do some drags and see how each level of tune in each sled improves the speed.

[@dilligentincubus8187]

Not yet, polaris doesn't have a turbo so they can't give it the win ...maybe next year.

[@malarie11]

Great vid! Merci!

[@doobyboy21]

Luke I need your opinion on this... A guy on marketplace is selling a 2017 SKS 155 for $5000cdn... I'm in Quebec... It has low compression on the cylinders but still rolls... It only needs a topend. Everything else on the sled is mint... Would you buy it ?

[@SnowmobileHomeMovies]

Great analysis. One of the better Snowtrax videos ever, really. Finally someone calling out Skidoo on weight, which is unacceptably high. And you mention most riders never go over 7000 feet so the turbo doesn't help them, and that "stuck weight" negates any horsepower advantage. Throw in the fact that the short tunnel is just an overheat special with no real benefit, and that would be everything. Thank you. My guess is, you are sneakily revealing that Doo is cutting weight next year. I sure hope so. I have bought 3 Ski-Doos in a row, but I won't buy another with this massive weight difference. Your Mazda Miata example is spot on, that's why I love 600s so much. Weight is still almost everything and light is more right than ever. What is Ski-Doo even doing anymore? Not trying? Resting on their laurels? The best engine does not mean the best sled. They will go the way of Yamaha if they forget about weight, and rightfully so. The 2 stroke turbo is a great development, wonderful, I love it...it's also not of any use to most riders including myself. I'll never get the altitude for it in Washington. And the short tunnel is a useless downgrade in usability, just a bad gimmick to cut weight, but not nearly enough weight. Low weight and great handling helps all riders. I am buying a new 2022 sled and it won't be another Ski-Doo if they don't get the weight down significantly. 3 overweight new sleds in a row is enough.

[@jc9601]

The shorten tunnel is also a liability, a guy died last yr in revy , cause his turbo expert came over on top of him in his own trench, soffacated him, and my friend did the same thing last week, good thing his son was near by to get the sled off him, was a scary moment ,I was told.

[@joeyclark8266]

Polaris is making one fatal flaw and they will be exposed in about a year or 2 when they go under, the damn things are just that perfect lol, unless you can afford to just buy a new one each year simply because you can no one will ever have to get a new snowmobile after their next purchase of a new polaris,

[@THEAVERAGEGAMER13]

Power also equals track speed which is a big deal in deep snow and most Polaris pros are cutting their tunnels so idk what you're saying it's such an awful idea for. You're way too biased man. Ski-doo and Polaris both make a good sled and if your sled weight is such a big deal why don't you hit the gym? You'll lose weight and be strong enough to ride your sled

[@SnowmobileHomeMovies]

lol go ahead and ride a sled that's too heavy then, you have plenty of options.

[@marknewman8609]

@@SnowmobileHomeMovies You are definitely right about the weight. I have owned 2 of these exact yellow skidoo turbos and they are a heavy beast in the spring hard pack conditions. In deep powder however you do not even notice the extra weight cause the power and 16" track keep you floating on top like a Seadoo. Also the rear tunnel being shortened is a huge benefit. If you don't know why or can't see why I am not going to waste my energy explaining it as you are not an avid mountain rider then. Good day!

[@raysat7256]

I've always wanted to convert the RMK into a cross country racer. Lightweight, high horsepower. Just change the track and A Arms. Great review

[@boburban9705]

Love my polaris and we can't help the fact skidoo guys have a parade in the summer

[@alexshillinglaw3112]

Agree with your numbers breakdown... Haven't been able to ride either machine but with all snowmobiles, really only three things matter in terms of performance: Weight, Horsepower, and Flotation...

[@shavedape]

Great comparison Luke. I have a Ski-Doo and wanted Ski-Doo to do better here but your points are all right on and I would have picked the RMK too. Looks a helluva lot better and the 50 lb weight difference with much stronger RMK motor (until the turbo catches up at 5000 feet or whatever) makes this a no-brainer.

[@henkepevemede5306]

Hey should the skidoo hade less than à bon turbo at sea lever???

[@aidandrum1418]

Yessss thank you

[@nsa6790]

The doo 850 has been dynoed multiple times at 173 hp the turbo even hit 178 hp. So idk where the 155 at sea level comes from. Great video though none the less!

[@Gendronk]

I could be wrong but the way I understood. He was subtracting 1 hp for every 5 lbs heavier.

[@clarencebachmeier8095]

I have a new turbo 165, weight weight weight. BS IN THIS CASE. The short tunnel and the turbo stuck in deep snow usually pops right out, if you can find snow deep enough to get stuck.

[@EmilForsberg_GRYBO]

Ok so heres the thing... dyno tests... are complicated. It seems as tho no two people can get the same horsepower numbers. As you said the Ski Doo has been dynoed at 173 multible times (in america *cough* *cough*) as well as I have seen more than a few dyno tests showing only 162 horsepower (outside of america... *cough*) Like remember when ski doo even claimed that their "800" did 163hp? Yeah that was total bs. Nowhere close actually. But still some got as high is 155hp and some as low as 144 so you have to put it in perspective. Polaris having 168? I havn't even seen any dyno tests that say that at all. Actually some i have seen claim slighlty under 160 wich i think is more realistic since polaris has been know for making underpowered machines compared to ski doo and arctic cat. Pretty sure their 900 had less horsepower than ski doo's 800 even back then. Anyways don't get too cought up in horsepower. It isn't really the end all be all of what makes a good snowmobile so...

[@pavmentsurfer13]

There are MANY dyno tests out there that show the polaris making 174hp as well. I chose the lowest dyno result I could find from a reputable source for the polaris. At the time this was written and filmed, there almost no dyno numbers available for the skidoo, however, even if it makes the same HP as the Polaris at sea level, its still at a disadvantage due to weight until the turbo can compensate for the the weight as altitude rises. Anyone who says weight doesnt matter is trying REALLY hard to convince themselves a heavy sled is better.

[@EmilForsberg_GRYBO]

@@kyledejong8816 if power and track speed is really #1 for mountain sleds. Why aren't everyone just riding Yamaha Sidewinders? There's more to it obviously. Also i can tell you, my 2013 ski doo summit does not have 160 HP (this by testing it with my butt instead of a dyno), ski doo even claims themselves that their old 800 was 155 HP and on the information box on side of my sled it only says 146 HP so can you tell why im more likley to belive lower estimates. But yet again the raw "horsepower" numbers doesn't atomatically make a sled better as there are so many different variables to messure "power delivery". But again, the best way to test it is with your right thumb and buttocks

[@rodwarren2778]

Question: I have seen plenty of articles, blogs, and videos comparing the 2021 Skidoo Summit X Turbo and the Polaris Pro RMK. But the Yamaha Mountain Max / Arctic Cat M Mountain Cat Alpha One seem to be rarely even mentioned in mountain sled comparisons. Aren’t the Yamaha / Arctic Cat their competition in the same category as the Skidoo and the Polaris? I’m surprised that I don’t see them in a shootout or otherwise compared. Are they simply so outclassed by the Skidoo and the Polaris that it’s not worth putting them in a comparison?

[@12345mtb]

They are very much outclassed for sure, Polaris just came out 2022 RMK with booster, now it even make harder for another brand to catch up

[@pauldevloo5231]

Will the 850 Polaris turbo hold together? I don't own either but after some quick research I just cant see 160+ hp holding together with the current design. Basically the same since.....well, the liberty 800, just with efi and now a turbo, seems like a recipe for an engine that wont exceed 1000miles, reminds me of the ol' 08 PTek 800 Doo's. As for the current 850 Doo, direct injection prevents gas running thru the crankcase, that's huge for bearing life. Looks like they've made some great improvements to the re-buildability of the crank also

[@benjaminbaker8794]

What would you recommend for first mountain sled ?

[@johncavanagh1874]

Luke Lester before every shootout “guy’s listen this is unbiased” also Luke Lester in every video ever “ Polaris Polaris Polaris Polaris Polaris Polaris....... (25 minutes later) all that to say Polaris is the best ever sled ever created, but that’s not to say ski-doo is bad

[@mattfrieday5919]

I think he did a good explanation though

[@johncavanagh1874]

@@mattfrieday5919 yes that’s why I watch the videos, they’re well made and the guys are good at explaining but Polaris wins in every category every time, you can see they’re Polaris guys.

[@NickNick12376]

It’s almost like for the last 4 years neither of them have changed chassis huh? Lmao

[@Zeffy55]

Quit crying... a couple years ago all they were picking was Skidoo. Now Polaris is on top and your whining like a little bitch. One brand isn’t going to stay on top forever

[@owendesautels9612]

I mean polaris is the top brand right in the industry they stepped it up big time these past years. And ski doos just barely behind. And well Arctic Cat and Yamaha aren't even close

[@superdplum]

Great video!!!!

[@bryanrobinson85]

Unloading at the parking lot at 7k feet. You guys are losing credibility. Do you actually have a personal sled? Let me guess a Polaris.....

[@pavmentsurfer13]

Nope, no personal sleds. And just because YOU and your buddies unload at 7000 feet doesnt mean everyone does. Weve seen the numbers and have talked with industry experts who know the numbers. I didnt just come up with the information in this shootout off the top of my head. And numbers dont lie. Weather you like them or not.

[@JMX07]

@@pavmentsurfer13 So if Polaris releases a turbo will you tell people to buy the naturally aspirated version because its lighter? I mean, most people don't ride high enough elevation for it to matter anyways.. lol you guys crack me up.

[@utahspahghettzibjorker7537]

their math is really interesting. loss of 3% hp/1000feet, but the first 1000 feet "doesn't count" What???? Atmospheric pressure would disagree.

[@bedlambikes]

I saw a guy riding a Doo Summit 850 Turbo in Maine last weekend in 8” inches of snow, with a shovel in his backpack. Not one place in the entire northeast has riding over 4000’ in elevation. It’s his money though. Lol

[@ianbergman965]

Even in the add Ski doo says the turbo doesnt doo much until 8000 feet. So youre absolutely right. At 7k feet the thing is almost dead weight. It was specifically made for 8k plus. If you arent comparing at that altitude than it was a waste of time. 850na is the better and cheaper choice over the turbo.

[@deno177]

if light is right. then why do you guys not talk about the weight of the rider...... most people bitching about weight can loose more than a few pounds!!! I chose the 850 turbo and Im 115lbs. come and try to pull me on you polaris.. lol

[@wildcard1928]

Great Vid. I'd Really like to see a Base model Gen4 vs Axys Rmk shootout. No turbo or freeride , khaos , assault etc.

[@dvdj2quick]

Well done!

[@andrewoutdoors4442]

Awesome video

[@kirshberndt8412]

Maybe a dumb question but wouldn’t a heavier sled have more traction (benefit more only for trails vs deep snow, cornering with a more solid planted feel?) - like adding sandbags to the back of an empty light truck bed in the wintertime? Agreed that lighter is easier to get unstuck, quicker to respond and less fatiguing to ride. There’s a balance and point of diminishing returns on cost of weight reduction: using stronger, cheaper, heavier and arguably more reliable parts that skidoo doesn’t seem willing to compromise on…yet.

[@DanielBertihiaume]

Us it Polaris rmk slash 850 racing ski-doo??

[@alaskadrifter]

It sounds like maybe the Doo is turbo-normalized (keeping a sea level manifold pressure)? I’d love to see a Khaos vs Freeride shootout.

[@ottersummit]

Did you guys ride them? My last Polaris was great except it blew up every 1500 KM

[@markstahl1701]

Was this really a shootout or just a video about the polaris' quick drive, new track and weighing less than a skidoo? I already knew polaris was lighter.

[@pavmentsurfer13]

Of course it was. The question came down to this, does the skidoo turbo make up for the extra weight. In the opinion of myself and our other testers, the answer is no.

[@eugenewhite7262]

You’re a Polaris fan boy. No doubt. I knew what way you were leaning not even 4 mins into the video. You can’t say your unbiased but then talk about one sled more then the other. They both have perks. The newer sleds come down to personal opinion and only that! They are all more capable then the riders that are on them.

[@FORDEVR]

Thank You for Making a decision and not just saying there both great so no ones feelings are hurt. Even though my feelings were hurt I appreciate the decision.🤜🤛

[@petek6522]

Nice tech specs, you guys are 👍

[@snowtrax]

Thanks! 👍

[@drgopta2180]

I need one to just get around the farm. One of these should do fine I suppose.

[@TheTysurfs]

Great review on each sled. I guess it’s tough with a brand new motor, but I think both reliability and price should be mentioned as well.

[@jc9601]

So you think the doo is more reliable than the pol? If so think again.

[@TheTysurfs]

@@jc9601 Not too sure which is more reliable. I ride a Pro that has 2000 trouble free miles. I’ve been seeing more complaints with the doo lately on some of the sledding pages I follow, but greater market share on the doo’s too. I’d be interested in some real info on it.

[@jc9601]

@@TheTysurfs I live , ride sicamoose 2/3 times a week mostly doos in my group and 1 tbo, trust me they have thier issues, one off them, losing track lugs and blowing motors. I got a 19 pro 85o with over 3000 miles , only been to the dealer for ecm updates. Im Buying another 850 in 2022. The only stiff competition I have I'm my group is the tbo doo, all stock doos cant compare in instant acceleration and overall track speed of the pol.

[@TheTysurfs]

@@jc9601 Those are the things I like to hear. I’d be really interested in an 850 in the next 1 or 2 years. Do you add any oil to the fuel with that 850, or just run it?

[@pavmentsurfer13]

Thanks for your comments. If there was more time I would have talked about price. But as it was, I just wanted to focus on performance. But the price difference is a BIG deal as well.

[@tyfast27]

I live at 7000 and ride up to 10000. I’m sticking with the pro! The ski-doos are bad ass too though. I’d say it’s preference!

[@DEVUNK88]

I made the weight argument for the past few years and got mocked for it, back in the day the RMK was roughly 100lbs lighter than the doo and the cat, and it made sense to me immediately. others, not so much

[@sleeplesselkproductions8030]

Until the end of the day. When the cat still weighs the same, and the rmk has at least 40lbs of snow and ice stuck too it

[@cthom5190]

Interesting theory on the weight but I think also you guys should take in consideration what it’s actually like to ride these sleds.... you can’t tell me the skidoo doesn’t put a smile on your face over the Polaris at 8,000 + feet.... and to say most mountain riders don’t ride at high enough elevation for the turbo to take effect is certainly not true at least in the Rocky Mountain area, the parking lot I unload on a weekly bases is at 7,200 feet and it only goes up from there.

[@LiamG903]

For sure but there's ton thsg don't, ie quebec, Labrador, even in Ontario we are way lower but you see a crap ton of mountain sleds in these areas.

[@arsxs04]

I smile way more on my 2020 Pro RMK then when I ride my buddies Skidoos. Skidoos feel like tanks to me.

[@pavmentsurfer13]

I didnt just imagine the 7000 feet number. It came from Industry insiders who do the research. Just because YOU ride above 7000 most of the time, doesnt mean everyone does.

[@scottromero4004]

Sorry to burst your bubble but the skidoo 850 turbo makes over 170 h.p at low elevation. Numerous dynos have proved this

[@mikeowentaylor]

Not just that, it's normally 150-100lbs is 10hp "loss". Compared to 8-3lbs being 1hp "loss" for unsprung weight, aka wheels and tires. Realistically that means the summit that is making around 175hp at sea-level is about 5hp down making it really 170hp to their weight numbers. The polaris 850s range between 165-175 hp. The actual dry weight 165 vs 163 is skidoo is 466lbs and the 420lbs. The truth is when fully loaded with all fluids and belts and on scales for testing they weigh within 15lbs of eachother. Polaris being lighter.

[@leftyeh6495]

I'm not sure where your mountains are. I unloaded at 7500' at my local spot last weekend. 6000'+ is every single time I ride. I'm preety sure the only low elevation riding you're going to see is Alaska or the midwest/flatlands.

[@jc9601]

Northeast BC has lots of riding at 4500 feet.

[@cjalden1976]

In Alaska we hardly get above 4500 ft.

[@leftyeh6495]

Exactly my point. If you're in Idaho, Montana, Colorado, Wyoming, etc. You'll be riding up to 10,000' fairly often. It's not many places that you have really good snow and lots of mountain riding below 6000'.

[@theoutdoorsmanofmontana995]

not necessarily. the whole northwest corner of montana breaking into idaho is full of riding like that. The price is the biggest point for me. I'm a Polaris guy but I love the factory turbo idea with the bike man tunes 🤔....... maybe if i can find a reasonable one used 😂

[@pavmentsurfer13]

@@theoutdoorsmanofmontana995 Or just add a turbo to your polaris for less money than the skidoo... if you tune the skidoo you loose your warranty anyway.

[@sledon9105]

Ride these sleds for 5 years and see what costs more

[@brianpereira807]

which one do you say costs more?

[@sledon9105]

@@brianpereira807 I’ve owned both Polaris is always broken and parts for that thing are insane

[@tomtraynor5384]

@@sledon9105 Like a $25 spark plug? That has to be installed/indexed by a mechanic? Or dismantling half the cowl to change a belt because all the band-aid air flow guards they added? Can you imagine that all factors--including durability and performance are changeable and variable over time? Because they are. Blowing up a 2011 Etec twice lead me through Arctic Cat (Oh hell no!) to Polaris. Waiting till the 7 I've had let me down. But new Poo IS on point to match Doo in the main area of difference: Fit and finish. Polaris is THERE now. With a much better screen for tracking and GPS and better shocks.

[@oldslow3694]

@@tomtraynor5384 now waite a minute on this page wasup fool posted walker eveans shocks are junk he is the expert, 2 years ago he posted his polaris 850 blew up so why would he have anthing good to say about polaris the dip ****

[@sledon9105]

@@tomtraynor5384 since I need spark plugs in the next 5 years skidoo plugs last 10 thousand km

[@MrDanchin21]

It’s sad that the Yamaha and Arctic Cat aren’t even considered (through no fault of snotrax, they just aren’t on the same level).. great video! Bring on the factory patriot turbo!!

[@yeboidustin8725]

From my experience they are both great sleds

[@erikmoore7402]

Which one out climbs which? Can we get that answer?

[@joshpitts7256]

Damn.. That Ski-Poodle looks similar to a Ostrich that hit a wall..🤔

[@robertbartholomew4473]

Excellent video once again. I wish you guys would stop feeling you need to explain yourselves every video you give an opinion. There will always be hater and trolls in the comments, always. Ignore them they have no lives and live in there mom's basements.

[@EmilForsberg_GRYBO]

That doesn't necessarily have to be the case. Sure a lot of people call them out for beeing "biased towards Polaris" but there are a lot of people that have genuine criticism about how they do their shootouts, for example. The etec has been the pinicle of 2 stroke engine technology for the last 10 years. It is the most reliable, most fuel efficient and it's probably the most powerfull as well (although that argument ussually ends up in a shitshow of horsepower numbers beeing thrown around so let's just forget about it for now) You can't fault people for thinking it's a bit weird that over the years snowtrax has mentioned the etec's stregnths less and less. Almost as if they are making sure that the polaris looks better over all... Now, i'm not claiming anything. I'm just, you know, saying... you can't just name every criticism as trolling or hating. That will just make the problem worse. When you constantly work with new sleds you can't get a good view into what the sleds will become later on. But most people (and that's a factual "most") choose Ski Doo simpley because of reliability. Not because they don't like Polaris or whatever. And i think that's something that has been declining in mentions on this show.

[@pavmentsurfer13]

@@EmilForsberg_GRYBO You are actually not entirely correct. Etec 850's dont make more power than the Patriot 850s. You can only say that more people choose skidoo because skidoo sells 4 strokes and polaris doesnt. Polaris actually outsold skidoos last season in 2 stroke sales. So while you are "factually" correct, theres more to the story. The reason we mention etecs strenghts less and less is because they have become less and less impressive as the others have developed better engine technology. A 600 etec gets only a TINY bit better gas and oil mileage than a Polaris 650. But the 650 makes more power. Same goes for the 850s. Back when Polaris only had their 800, the difference was MUCH bigger. So we talked alot about it. But times change. Reliability isnt any better overall. The new patriot engines (asside from the first year problem that was dealt with) are extremely reliable. Finally, our trail sleds get upwards of 2 and 3000 miles on them every year. The average for a typical rider is under 1500 miles. So, we essentially get 2 seasons worth of testing in a single year. Is it 10 years worth? No... but it isnt inconsequential.

[@EmilForsberg_GRYBO]

@@pavmentsurfer13 ok so i just want to pick apart this as i found some things that i didn't quite agree with. First off, yes Polaris might have sold more 2 strokes last season. But that is because of the fact that, as you just said yourself, they ONLY make 2 stroke. While Ski Doo devides a very sizeble margine of their fleet of sleds to 4 strokes. Had Ski Doo also ONLY made 2 strokes they would obviously sell more 2 strokes. So that argument really doesn't hold up. Secondly, there are so many different dyno tests by so many people that lead to different resaults in horsepower. Some say the Polaris 850 has more, some say the Ski Doo 850 has more in the end that doesn't mean anything. Now, i'm sure you have you're own feelings on this but, how much power that's getting delivered is best tested by riding the sleds (wich im certain you do a lot of) and that was one of my problems with this shootout. Too much focus on unconfirmed numbers instead of how they actually feel in the power department. You can't focus too much on the horsepower numbers as there are loads of different variables to calculate how the power is delivered (again, i'm certain you know this already). For example: the Yamaha viper without the turbo is said to have around 130hp, and the ski doo 1200 had similar numbers. But they couldn't be more different in power delivery and a few horses here and there doesn't compensate for everything else a sled might do badly at. Finally, although 3000 miles is very much above average in a single season. That doesn't change the fact that 3000 miles is not enough to correctly messure a sleds reliability. This isn't anything you as reviewers can do something about but i had to mention it as you were trying to deffend yourself in something you shouldn't have. If you're snowmobile doesn't last 3000 miles it is a BAD engine in todays (and actually like 30 years ago's) standard. It might be enough to find a severe problem in the engineering of the motor, but it isn't enought to truly gage the reliability . ... PS, i just want to say thank you for making honest and well produced content in the world of snowmobiles, even though i might have problems with things in certain videos, that doesn't change the fact that i wouldn't even be having this convo (and massive research interest) if it weren't for your videos. I don't want to end on a sour note, i've certainly made my feelings clear enough by now so. Im interested in what (or if) you'll respond to this.

[@nascarnate326]

Wow, this guy speaks quite well and the editor did a great job too. Wish he would do motocross reviews.

[@pavmentsurfer13]

If i was even remotely competent on a motocross bike... but im not at all. Lol. My opinions are only valid on the vehicles I have spent my life riding. But thanks for the nice comment. I appreciate it.

[@nascarnate326]

@@pavmentsurfer13 Moto guys reviews are...lacking. lol There is a very clear difference in the way your videos are done vs others. What camera do you record with?

[@FishNFreshWater]

Roasted! 😂 POLARIS FOR LIFE

[@outfitr9703]

What about reliability?

[@Masterchief.1033]

Need to start including Arctic Cat in these shootouts.

[@dc-pr6xt]

No one cares about 4th place.

[@jadenverduin4348]

@@dc-pr6xt true

[@flyin427ford]

@@kyledejong8816 Doo gets too Butthurt at not being # 1 and cant take the criticism! They wont let their sleds be compared/tested any more.

[@tedconrath9110]

You do a mountain sled comparison or shootout but don't include 2 of the 4 manufacturers? That's fine you pick what you do and it's supposedly unbiased, but why not give the other 2 some airtime? Even the mountain max is a 2 stroke now but its so bad it isn't even worth comparing?

[@pavmentsurfer13]

We picked the 2 most talked about sleds that had big updates. The alpha (and in reality, the MTN max) is basically unchanged. Its not personal.

[@kodykirby2293]

I'm glad you guys are not engineers lol.

[@davidbrennan5]

6" paddle for me or nothing and I want a 266 Track at least.

[@patrizioposteraro6651]

Bro what😂

[@davidbrennan5]

@@patrizioposteraro6651 I need more track for the gnarly chutes, be cool if they had a 1200cc triple 2 stroke and shaved 100 lbs off the weight. I don't need gauges or a seat just a spot for my phone, lighter headlight more carbon and wider skis. Doo could call it the Summit God and Poo could call it the Chute King.

[@rnasap]

The Ski-Doo appears to be like that one night stand back when your were 20 something, incredible ride until you turned on the light in the morning.

[@mikebunero6147]

clicked to see if they mention bias/brand bias and wow!!!! 63 seconds in and immmmm outtttaaaaa heeeerreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[@deeppowproductions5119]

We’re the kitty cat and great review 👍

[@bradpowell843]

Good video for sure! Riding 2-3’ ft of powder at 8-10,000 ft elevation the ski doo will totally destroy the Polaris though! Seems like the ultimate sled though is the light weight Polaris with a factory turbo though. I do feel though for true Mtn sleds there is no reason to talk about anything less than 5,000 Ft in elevation.

[@vincelombardi2669]

Totally agree with you. My parking lot where I ride is 7,000 feet. Plus the website says the weight do the 165 turbo is 437 pounds. So they added 30 more pounds to this.

[@pavmentsurfer13]

@@vincelombardi2669 The weight of the NON turbo is 437lbs. The site is hard to figure out. The turbo setup weights approximately 30lbs.

[@adamp9377]

You use Polaris specs for weight, and made up numbers for hp. Can't have it both ways. You guys are always fudging the numbers in your favor. Where do you get 155hp from? Skidoo claims 165hp, even though it has been proven to put out more at sea level. Use polaris's specs for hp...

[@613doo]

polaristraxx at it again lol

[@pavmentsurfer13]

We used BRPs numbers for weight as well. BRP has claimed horsepower for the turbo. Which is why I can use that number. Polaris hasnt. Just given us percentages over the 800... but I didnt just use those. I looked up dyno numbers for the 850 then used the LOWER ones. Furthermore, you clearly arent good at math, or you werent listening to the story. As so many skidoo guys dont, when they dont like the outcome of a shootout. The 155hp number for the skidoo was AFTER compensating for the HP loss due to the extra weight. Its a %100 valid measurement. Extra weight eats up horsepower. And there are numbers to support this. The math I did was completely reasonable.

[@613doo]

@@pavmentsurfer13 hold on, you came up with 155 after compensating for weight? That's a new one. Didn't know a 200hp sidewinder was really 100hp Also its common knowledge that the skidoo 850 has awesome power. Im sure the polaris does as well. But you are selling the polaris and its plainly obvious. Where are the real tests?

[@LiamG903]

@@613doo Its just to give you a balanced look at power and what you will actually fell. Less weight means the power has to move less. The math was just to help you see why the Polaris will do so well without the turbo. 50lbs is a lot and you will feel it biug time. Guys spen 15k to drop that much weight. I just took it as a different approach to help you make sense of why sleds do what they do. All the factors he mentioned make sense, track is lighter, belt drive is lighter and you will notice those changes. If hp in relation to weight didnt matter everyone would ride 4 stroke turbos

[@adamp9377]

@@pavmentsurfer13 do whatever you need to do justify your opinion. I've never seen anyone actually subtract hp based on weight. Give a power to weight ratio, and since this is a mountain machine, give a chart of power to weight ratio from 5k-11k.

[@cbdsw]

For me weight is important but durability is also a BIG factor. I wish this was included in the "Shoot out".

[@sgt79]

Thats why I bought a yamaha 4 stroke no more oil, can go unknown amounts of kms and should just be regular maintenance and the odd part. Not a blown engine....

[@cbdsw]

@@sgt79 Yeah I always broke skis and things like that. I have never blown an engine. But ya two strokes have been known to blow!!

[@Drive-Elegant-Co]

Yeh check out syxxes performance channel there buddy Sean has had problems with starting his brand new Polaris he's blown out the shock and bent them multiple times. Muskoka freerider. His buddy with new Polaris have had starting issue in vids. In my opinion they may be light but they don't last. Extra 50 pounds for quality ill take it

[@cbdsw]

@@Drive-Elegant-Co Like my buddy says you want your sled to weigh less put down the cheeseburger. I used to ride the old blizzards and olympics. I had no problem throwing them around.

[@Drive-Elegant-Co]

@@cbdsw yeh I'm 6'4" 210 I don't struggle throwing most sleds around. Maybe these snowtrax guys are weak

[@bennyb6071]

What's the best trail sled at 137?

[@208SledHead]

Pretty sure the Ski Doo won that one.

[@EmilForsberg_GRYBO]

The yamaha sidewinder stx duh... well i mean it's the fastest at least and that's really all i care about when i go on trail (ok not all but it's the main thing, blasting away on a lake is just crazy with those machines)

[@jesseroseberry7936]

Now the question is. Longevity. How long do these motors last?

[@austinsmith7426]

Pls 2021 crossover shootout with Polaris matryx

[@TyfoiD75]

I did like pro rmk until 1st engine failure, after 2nd I canceled the deal and walked across the street to buy Rotax... not a ski-doo though

[@Xanathar77]

850 Lynx Boondocker? :)

[@ewaschuk802]

Isn't this just the same 2 stroke vs 4 stroke weight argument all over again...deja vu...😂

[@welderteach]

Oh wow, look another shootout from the Polaris/skidoo show👌🤦‍♂️

[@josephmuktukjoegallahornsr]

I wish I can afford an 850 Polaris

[@Rdoell17]

😂yea, and afford to fix it

[@joebiker5992]

@@Rdoell17 fix what? Great engines, great sleds.

[@evanerickson1848]

Okay, but lets talk about durability. which sled will leave you stranded in the mountain?

[@alachon205]

At least both of these is better than my Polaris sidetrack LX 500 from 1999😂

[@lacoolhand1017]

Thank you for giving us the facts! And yes light is right when out in the steep and deep!

[@pavmentsurfer13]

You are more than welcome.

[@nicholaspotvin8201]

love the content

[@Bruh-nn1rs]

I don’t think I’ve seen a shootout when’s skidoo won

[@1mantisco]

Unless it's an actual race

[@wasupfool5692]

You have to go back to when Skidoo payed more money in sponsorship than Polaris

[@Bruh-nn1rs]

@@wasupfool5692 yeah Polaris just knows skidoo is better so they have to pay more for them to win these shootouts

[@208SledHead]

@@Bruh-nn1rs Ski Doo has won some of the trail segments and some on/off trail. Quit being a pussy.

[@pajamatime5750]

Skidoo would win if they were better.... Polaris has come a long way the past few seasons and despite what skidoo babies say, Polaris is, more often then not, getting the thumbs up in the media!! Not just Snowtrax either

[@alexpuglisi6181]

Lol I must not be most mountain riders. The parking lot for me is 7k feet.

[@joshwagner5414]

Exactly, the town of west Yellowstone is 6600 feet. When I rode out there we were usually around the 8500-9500 range and topped at 10k

[@offroadcustomwraps2342]

@@joshwagner5414 yeah I usually ride right around 5-7k feet so I don’t see where the turbo wouldn’t be a huge win over a Polaris! Plus I have buddies ridding Polaris and every time they hit something they always screw up an a arm or something cause of the poor Stregnth Polaris has due to them loosing weight each year

[@ianbergman965]

this is what i was thinking. I was surprised to hear "most mountain riders rarely get about 7k feet" Im rarely below 8K and i ride in Utah Wyoming Idaho Colorado. where are you riding?

[@pavmentsurfer13]

Were simply using the numbers weve been given by industry insiders who collect the information. NOT polaris people. We dont just come up with numbers off the top of our heads. Just because you dont agree with them, doesnt make them wrong.

[@joshgarner805]

@@ianbergman965 I was thinking the same thing. Every one that I know that rides out west is always riding above 7k feet. The only time I'm below that is if I'm sitting at he hotel.

[@mikeparkhill6448]

Hey boys, if you want to do a review on my 2022 Polaris adventure 550 , 144. Let me know. I noticed that you don't review them often. Have a good one.

[@heatmoon]

I care about who makes the best snowmobiles, they are made in Minnesota, and currently I give it to Roseau but in the past Arctic Cat has delivered some real winners. The XCR is back, you can't ask for more.

[@everyday_rc_kidandmore5745]

I tried the one of the new pro rmk and I hated it

[@pavmentsurfer13]

Guess you wont be buying one then. Get what you like. These are just our opinions. Not everyone will agree.

[@kevinmartin3124]

How does the RMK compare to a Khaos?

[@208SledHead]

Brett Turcotte recently did a SUPER good video comparing the two. Go check it out! :)

[@jdcarguy1242]

Like the analogy to the miata. The easy additional power of the skidoo platform along with the superior packaging dictates my choice of winner.

[@pavmentsurfer13]

Consider this, the skidoo costs $4000 more. You can have more horsepower by adding a turbo to your polaris and STILL save money. Of course, youll loose your warranty. Which you wont with the skidoo, which is a huge factor for many and is totally reasonable.

[@jdcarguy1242]

Im biased toward skidoo anyhow. I do appreciate the honest opinions and work put in to produce your excellent shows. Keep it up!