SHOP TIPS

[@clifffiftytwo]

38 years in the engineering profession and I take no exception with your comments. I worked in a power plant where you got to watch your work and/or listen to it daily. My colleagues and I learned very early in our careers to involve craftsmen, craft foremen, and operators early in the design process. Failing this had a high probability of looking very, very foolish, wasting time and money designing something that either couldn't be built or shouldn't be built. I worked with a mechanical engineer from Germany for a year who told me that he was not permitted to enter his senior year of classes without an entire year apprenticing in a machine shop. What a great idea! Another fine video from MrPete222 - thank you.

[@mrpete222]

+Cliff Miller Sounds like you are doing it right.

[@mrpete222]

+Daniel Koch Yes--working hand in hand

[@oldpup4810]

I agree with your statement about engineers not using the equipment they design. In the oilfield, we had an engineer that always stipulated a 32 finsh, not realizing at the time that would require finish grinding in stead of machining. :)

[@mrpete222]

+Old Pup Good comment

[@joea3728]

on some lathe, such as the South Bend, you can increase the screw gear size to get a finer feed if necessary. For instance on the nine and 10K, South Bend sold a 116 tooth turning gear. It was made for the change gear lathe, but it Will work on the quick shift gearbox, essentially dividing the feed rate in half. unfortunately This will not work on the Atlas / craftsman lathes. Also for anyone who wishes to modify there lathe to use electric feed, an old wheelchair motor works well, But It is very important that you find one that has a lever to disconnect the gears inside, So you can pushed the chair manually. this allows you to disconnect the electric motor, (Without having to disconnect the belt), When using the standard power feed on the lathe. they require a 24V power supply. But that should not be a problem for most of you.

[@mrpete222]

+Joe Allen Thanks for watching--thats good info & a good solution.

[@larrycollar1322]

I have a 10" Atlas lathe with change gears. Shortly after viewing your original video on the Atlas feed rates and the variable speed solution you came up with, I went shopping and found a fractional HP DC motor and a Chinese speed controller that could be rigged to reverse motor polarity (direction). Not sure what all that stuff cost but it wasn't very much. Made a 6" pulley out of scrap aluminum and adapted it to the end of the leadscrew. Very easy project. The benefit of independently powering the leadscrew that I noticed right away was how much quieter the lathe ran with the change gears dis-engaged. The only time I can imagine using the change gearing now would be to thread. Thanks for another great video.

[@mrpete222]

+Larry Collar Good job. I noticed it was quiet. Somtimes I forget to turn the motor off.

[@AmateurRedneckWorkshop]

That slow feed for the Craftsman lathe is a very tempting project. I have the parts to copy that, not anything from a wire feed but still a slow moving motor. Verrry tempting idea. Just as soon as I finish painting the bathroom. Thanks for the great video.

[@mrpete222]

+Amateur Redneck Workshop Thanks for watching

[@RobertPerrigoOkiechopper]

I'm green with envy, all those lathe and I'm having difficulty trying to get just one. It really sucks depending on my wheelchair, my ability to locate one is having to go online looking and then finding help to make it happen. I no longer drive & that in it's self leaves me stuck at home. Luckily Most of my needs for life are within two miles and I just charge up my chair and off I go if weather permits. What I always remind people of, is, " Don't take walking for granted ". I dislike me having to ask others for assistance when they have their life to get thru each day. Sorry for going on with this little vent, MS does that to some that live with the affects each day 24/7. I always enjoy your videos, I have learned so much more about the machinist trade from all You-tube shop production's, Thanks guys for sharing your knowledge & experience. Robert

[@mrpete222]

+Robert Perrigo Thanks for watching--hope I bring a little joy in your life. I'm sure the going is tuff. But sounds like you still have a lot of independence. Keep watching--and I agree about taking walking for granted.

[@paulmanson253]

Do the best you can with what you have. Chuck Yeagers phrase is press on. Cannot change what is but struggle against it. From someone else disabled. Check out the dr Gabe Mirkin website if still up. He had commentary on MS.

[@mrpete222]

+paul manson You sound couragous & very positive . God bless you & Thanks for watching

[@shanek6582]

At first I watched your videos because your just so darn interesting but I'm really getting into this machinist stuff. I bought an old atlas th42 and have been cleaning it up and painting it, I can't wait to get started. Looking forward to you taking the apron off in the next video. Thanks

[@mrpete222]

+Shane K Thanks for watching--nice that you got an atlas

[@davida1hiwaaynet]

I like your repurposed DC motor drive and wire feed motor! That is very useful. My Atlas lathe has no gearbox, and I didn't receive any if the change-gears. A similar design to yours would allow me to implement power-feed in a simple way, without having to source all the gears and incur that cost.

[@mrpete222]

+davida1hiwaaynet Thanks for watching--yes, make one

[@marksinden4156]

A simple solution might be to fit an in-line 5:1 or 10:1 ratio reduction gear where the shear pin coupling now mounts. A 40mm (1.6") square unit should handle the torque ok, and will fit in the available space with minimal modifications. The reduction ratio should, of course, be picked to leave as many "useful" thread pitches available as possible. It might also, if arranged to be swappable, allow switching to metric threading easily, but changing the base ratio.

[@RambozoClown]

One of the big problems with the Atlas is that they use the half nuts for the feed. Most other lathes have a different way to engage the leadscrew for feeds so they get more reduction than just half nuts. I fashioned something similar to what you did, Mr. Pete, for an old Atlas where I worked as a kid. So that I could get a fine feed. Being the new kid, I often had to use the old Atlas when the better lathes were in use.

[@trainman4602]

Hi Lyle The use of an independent motor for feeding the carage or cross slide gives you an infinatly variable feed system. My Hardinge Chucker and DSM-A lathes and most other Hardinge lathe use this vary system. You can speed up the lathe without changing the feed rate giving you a micro finish. Great Video Thanks

[@mrpete222]

+trainman4602 Didn't know that Dave. Thanks

[@EVguru]

+mrpete222 I've used a Hardinge HLV-H and I wish I had one at home. There is no provision for a threading dial, instead there is a dog clutch in the threading geartrain and a knock-off. The top-slide has a built in retracting cam. It warns you in the manual to not attempt threading up to a shoulder at over 1000rpm.

[@mrpete222]

+Paul Compton Thanks for watching--those hardinge lathes are built with such precision. I have a little hardinge speed lathe.

[@johs290185]

Surface finish isn't only about feed rates. It's linked to the nose radius on the tool you're using. So in comparison an insert with a bigger nose radius will make a smoother finish then a ground tool with a sharp point, at the same feed setting. I think that's worth mentioning.

[@mrpete222]

+Johannes Larsen True-Thanks for watching

[@nick4204u]

Good comment. A .005 feed rate will give a nice 63 finish with a .031 radius tool

[@JosephDAndrea0121]

I don't know if it was a matter of Engineers choosing the wrong feeds as the accountants the Heavy likely sold for 2-3 times the price of the Atlas more feeds means fore gears in the gear box. I love my Heavy Ten.

[@FredMiller]

+Joseph DAndrea Hi Joseph I commented to MrPete below about my Atlas 10F. Fred

[@RyanWeishalla]

Yeah, I have the same issue on my 10" quick change. I haven't looked that closely at how everything meshes in there, but had opined on the thought of seeing if one could replace the gears which position E meshes and make them larger to reduce the feed rates across the board without affecting the threading pitches. For now, I just have to try to take a finish pass by advancing the carriage by hand.

[@mrpete222]

+ILGopher Thanks for watching

[@toddanonymous5295]

Mr Pete, The variable speed feed system is brilliant ! I plan on replicating this on my craftsman. I knew I kept that Bodine DC geared down motor for a reason.

[@mrpete222]

+Todd Anonymous Yes-give it a go

[@Cavemannspace]

I bought an Atlas lathe, just like the done in your basement, and used to wonder why I couldn't get a good finish on anything. It dawned on me several years ago that the feed rates were too high on the low end. So I had watched your other video on slowing it down and am wondering if I can concoct a similar speed reducing contraption as well. One of the selling points of the Atlas/Craftsman lathe was that it turns fast enough to turn wood. The guy I brought it from needed space in his shop and I like to work wood and wanted to learn how to turn metal for a few projects so it was a good deal for me. I used sheets of plastic and magnets for a while but now "Press & Seal" is handy stuff to protecting the ways from wood chips. Might try that for turning cast iron too, no magnets needed. You do have to stop and reset the Press & Seal once in a while, but it makes for easy clean up and protection. I noticed on your Clausing lathe that there are feed rates below .00076. Right above that one on row 8 is .0007and on up three places there is a 00065 on row 6. Not really knowing much about metal lathes that is puzzling to me because the slowest feed is usually in the bottom right corner of the charts.

[@martik778]

+Cavemannspace You can attach a handwheel on the leadscrew tailstock end and upgrade to a variable speed motor later. I have the South Bend but often use the handwheel for fine feeds when I need the lathe to be quiet late at night.

[@Cavemannspace]

+martik778 That's a thought. Thanks.

[@lilflatty2472]

One time my crew leader told an engineer “hey just because you can draw a shit house doesn’t mean you can shit in it”. We all died laughing!!!

[@mrpete222]

lol

[@lanceditty7300]

I recently acquire a Lodge and Shipley 1914 lathe with a taper attachment for $600. Also a 3jaw and 2 -4 jaw Chucks + a face plate with a lot of tooling. I can't wait to get it running. I believe it to be a 14"× 50"

[@mrpete222]

👍👍

[@dickmick5517]

I have an Atlas also. I agree the carriage feeds are slow. The cross slide feeds are even worse. If there is a method of automatically feeding the cutoff tool slow enough to be of any use let me know. I haven't been able to cut Aluminum using the automatic feed. Great video. Thanks for sharing.

[@mrpete222]

+Dick Mick I would contunue to feed for cutoff by hand. Thanks for watching

[@williamwalker3849]

Evidently the engineers for South Bend could not add for 480 TPI is a feed rate of .00208 thousands.

[@hankus253]

At 6:40 the Clausing shows a feed rate of .00068 two rows above the .00076 that you stated was the slowest. Edit... or .00065 above that one whoops to me.

[@mrpete222]

+hankus253 whoops

[@Bread996]

For a finer finish, just use a larger radius insert/tool. I've never needed to feed slower than .004" That said, I don't work on many small or delicate parts where the increased tool pressure from a larger radius tool could cause chatter problems.

[@mrpete222]

+Bread996 Good advise-thanks for watching

[@marksinden4156]

Given the strip-down/rebuild videos that have been done on such gearboxes, and the gear cutting tutorials, would it be possible (within the confines of the existing housing/mechanism) to make a new set of gears to expand the range of feeds offered, keeping the fast end but giving a considerably smaller low end? The how-to video would seem to have a ready audience, and would seem like an obvious alternative to the DC motor drive.

[@nstahlable]

+Mark Sinden It is theoretically possible to replace one of feeds with different gear sets to produce a finer feed

[@marksinden4156]

I know it's possible "in theory" ... I was more concerned about the practicalities of fitting the required gear sizes into the available space - outer diameters, etc.

[@FredMiller]

Nice modification on the Atlas 12". I just looked at the chart on my Atlas 10F and the finest feed available with the standard change gears is .001877. That is better than the 12" but still not great. I may look into a similar mod for my Atlas as well. Thanks for sharing. Fred

[@mrpete222]

+Fred Miller Thanks for watching

[@johna6345]

Mr. Pete, it seems to me that you should be able to substitute a change gear in the drive train to get the minimum feed with the quick change gear box to be less than 0.0042 IPR. You can do this to turn metric and unusual threads. so why not the feed rate? I don't know enough about gear ratios to figure it out myself, but if you have any ideas could you please let me know or do a video on it? Thank you for all the great videos. I love watching them.

[@thomascoughran1374]

I like your drive system! Very clever.

[@mrpete222]

+Thomas Coughran Thanks

[@robehickmann]

agree with creators/engineers rarely having a great understanding of the use cases of what they are making, see that all the time.

[@mrpete222]

+robehickmann Thanks for watching

[@robertmccully2792]

Good video. The one simplified point i picked up was, to just read the thread rate per inch, the more thread the slower the feed. But you did not say what good feeds are-- or should i say the best feeds.

[@georgespangler1517]

My fix was to change drive gear from 48 to 24 teeth,,, and i used a nylon gear to also prevent a crash,,, l have to multiply chart by 2 and I lost first row on quick change treading chart but I will never cut a tread that course anyway. I would of did the drive motor to save gear box gears from wear but I realized the quick change gear boxes gears are steel and not zmak like the rest.

[@mrpete222]

Good job

[@Askjerry]

Interesting the way you disengaged the gears and drove it via the back end of the thread. That opens up interesting possibilities as a magnet and hall effect sensor could be connected to the shaft and the pulses could be detected by a microprocessor... then you could tell it exactly how many steps per revolution to send to a stepper motor... typical stepper motor is 200 steps per inch... a microstep of 8 would give you 1600 steps per revolution... so if the carriage thread were 10 TPI... that would be 16,000 steps per inch... or a theoretical 0.0000625 if my math holds out.

[@mrpete222]

+askjerry sounds like a good idea, but its way beyond me

[@Askjerry]

+mrpete222 Mechanically not really. You epoxy a magnet on the shaft somewhere and rig up a place to hold the sensor 1/8 inch or so away as the magnet passes by. Then you put the stepper 1:1 on the shaft... or you know what the ratio is and allow of it. After that... find a local Hackerspace or visit my buddies in St Louis at robomo.com (shameless plug) and they could help you.

[@timhyatt9185]

do you think the Clausing was intended for more "refined" grade of work than the Atlas was?...(tighter tolerances, etc) the other possibility is one is meant for "field" work (get what ever it is done and back into service), and the Clausing are meant for more of a "depot" type work where they return the project back to "like new" tolerances?? once again, i find myself wishing I could have been one of your students!!

[@Dans-hobbies]

+Tim Hyatt I think it's two things 1. The engineers assumed you would use a tool with a tip radius. 2. The engineers assumed if you needed a really fine finish, you would use a machine designed for that, namely an OD grinder.

[@FretsNirvana]

Another good one ...and I am watching all of these as you suggest. I am little confused on the DC motor mod ....how is that running on 110 volts? Are you using a transformer?

[@mattygee5000]

I have an Atlas 10F lathe.. I was able to squeeze a stacked reduction (16/32, I think) gear into the gear train without any mods to the lathe giving me .0021 for the slow speed.

[@mrpete222]

+mattygee5000 I would like to try that

[@josepheirman4987]

look closer at the clausing lathe chart the finest feed isnt the bottom right where it says .00076 if you look a little higher on the chart is says .00065 so I implore you to look closer at the chart.

[@mrpete222]

+Joseph Eirman whops

[@lesthompson390]

will you cut a Thread with your system on to demonstrate how it worcks? cutting a thread . would be useful in relation to feed & travel ?? LES CAN YOU DO SOMETHING On TRAVEL WITH RESPECT TO FEED. , interesting as My lath hAS ONLY TRAVEL KEY ON TRAVEL SHATY,

[@mrpete222]

I have several videos on threading

[@thomashanson6607]

Rarely the engineers, usually the beancounters. I'm neither so I don't have a dog in this fight. 336 likes no dislikes. One can only assume engineers also don't watch your videos.

[@ray29999]

Hi Mr.Pete, I couldn't figure out how to send you a personal message, but I have a question... (this is the tech teacher who is building a version of your double acting wobbler engine- basically 1/3rd the size if I remember right.) I have the cylinder in pattern form for casting. The piston chamber will have a 5/8 sand core and I want to bore the cylinder to fit a 3/4 piston that I'm going to turn out of Delran. I had planned on drilling the cylinder (about 4 inches in length) and then reaming it to .750 and turn the piston to about .740-.745. Both the drill and reamer I would have to buy. I'm wondering if you would have a different method to machine the piston chamber of the cylinder? Again, I'm not a machinist, but I play one at school. lol. Basically everything I know is self taught and learned from youtube. Thanks in advance for your advise! Ray

[@mrpete222]

+ray29999 You can try boring it on the lathe. But the small hole requires a small boring bar which wants to flex on a deep 4" hole. Guess you need a reamer

[@Zt3v3]

My logan 200 has the same silly lowest feed rate, at least with the gearing they suggest as the lowest. I went a bit lower since I have some extra change gears....I'm too lazy to figure out what that feed rate is though.

[@mrpete222]

👍

[@RickRose]

I wish I had seen this video before I bought my Atlas 12! I do like your solution to the problem, however.

[@mrpete222]

+Rick Rose Thanks

[@MrUbiquitousTech]

+Rick Rose Personally I don't see it as a deal breaker; the Atlas/Craftsman lathes are still good lathes. The feed is just something we have to work with or around.

[@RickRose]

ShysterLawyer Agreed. I have a 618 and a 12, and I had a TH54 (10-inch) as my first lathe. So I don't hate them.

[@tombellus8986]

Nice tutorial Lyle Thanks

[@mrpete222]

+Tom Bellus Thanks for watching

[@thomasbatchelor2738]

How can you cut threads? Does the quick change still work?

[@elsdp-4560]

thank you...great videos.

[@mrpete222]

+ELSDP-45 Thanks for watching

[@cemx86]

Thanks for the video. About your MIG welder wire feed upgrade on the Atlas/Craftsman lathe. At its slowest speed, what do you estimate as the feed rate?

[@joea3728]

+cemx86 The actual feed rate would depend on the spindle RPM. update, I should have said the actual feed rate would depend on the spindle RPM versus the lead screw RPM versus the lead screw pitch. For instance if your spindle rpm matched the lead screw rpm, you would essentially be cutting a thread equal to the lead screw pitch. Increasing the spindle RPM would increase this pitch.

[@cemx86]

+Joe Allen Correct. But at the slowest RPM what is feed rate as compared to the other lathes' lowest rate? Maybe this is a fix to get this particular lathe in the "ball park" of the other lathes, or maybe it is better than the other lathes.

[@joea3728]

+cemx86 basically you're trying to calculate the feed rate using two unknown values. The spindle RPM And the motor RPM. The motor RPM would depend on the slowest possible speed for that motor. Spindle RPM would depend on the highest possible speed of that material and cutting tool. because these two values are unknown, along with the lead screw threads, it is not possible to give you an exact feed rate. But basically if the two RPMs matched, you would be producing a thread equal to the lead screw thread. Doubling the spindle speed, would double the thread pitch. Decreasing the spindle speed by one half, would divide the thread pitch in half. The opposite would be true; if you left the spindle speed the same and increased or decreased the motor speed.

[@mrpete222]

+cemx86 Never checked it--barely creeps

[@charlesdyer2376]

Holly Molly how many lathes do you have ? I thought I was bad bringing home old cars.

[@mrpete222]

+Charles Dyer too many

[@MrUbiquitousTech]

Interesting how the last two feed on the Atlas are only 2 tenths apart. It hardly seems worth it if they could have just used that last space for a finer feed. I suppose it has something to do with either using gearing already existing in the gear box or a necessary mathematical equation for thread cutting.

[@mrpete222]

+ShysterLawyer I bet thats just the way it worked out. They are too close together

[@Free-49]

Do you happen to know if there are any significant differences on 1940s sheldon's and southbends?

[@mrpete222]

Do not understand the question. Yes there are many differences

[@Free-49]

@@mrpete222 i recently picked up a late 1940s sheldon 10in lathe. It was gifted to me from a family friend, as the story goes, the old man who owned it died 20 years ago and it sat ever since. Well taken care of but headstock removed, along with the carriage. I've got it all together now, but I'm still a novice and am looking for more information on the sheldon's. It's been pretty hard to find information on the net. Is there anyway I could contact you by email?

[@mrpete222]

Check on vintage machinery.org to see if there is any information

[@kevinwillis9126]

thanks for sharing sir..

[@mrpete222]

+Kevin Willis Thanks for watching

[@georgespangler1517]

My solution was to replace ac motor with speed controlled treadmill motor,, don't understand how your getting correct treading not running through the gear box,,,I thought that was whole point of vedio

[@lewismcclain8957]

Good job in class on the front row

[@mrpete222]

+Lewis Mcclain Good to see you

[@Dans-hobbies]

I fail to see the issue, because as soon as you use a tool with any kind of tip radius, a difference of 2 or 3 thousands is all but mute!

[@mrpete222]

+dans-hobbies I guess-Thanks for watching

[@Dans-hobbies]

+mrpete222 Check out this link, it has calculators that let you look at feed, tip radius, surface finish (Ra), and how they are related. www.kennametal.com/en/resources/engineering-calculators/turning-calculators/surface-finish.html

[@mrpete222]

+dans-hobbies interesting

[@mike97525]

I would think tool choice of tools would make a lot of difference in the finish In other words don't try to make a smooth finish with a threading tool lol

[@mrpete222]

+mike97525 so true

[@RyanWeishalla]

Hey, Lyle. I don't know if you have seen this video. The guy has didn't like the feed rate on his Atlas so with his quick change, so modified the gear train and cut all of his feeds by half. He has to take that into account when selecting the settings for cutting threads and has a few which you cannot do without switching it back on the course in. I thought you might find it interesting. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oXbHqX-ZmtZ2mc0

[@mrpete222]

+ILGopher Yes, I did see that. I would like to do a vid on it some day

[@miguelcastaneda7236]

yea loved engineers going to shop made the equivalant to my paycheck on bets as to what a form tool did or feed rates worked $$$ learnd to stay away from that skinny kid

[@mrpete222]

+Miguel Castaneda Good one