SHOTGUN - Viable Post Patch? (COMPREHENSIVE Darktide Guide with Breakpoints)

[@theactionwindow5008]

EDIT: Regarding blessings: Since this video was made it's come to light that the 'Fire Frenzy' blessing (not mentioned in this video) has a wildly inaccurate tool tip. Since it now appears that the blessing STACKS up to 5 times instead of being a flat % boost for a couple of seconds (said stacking is in no way referenced in tool tip), I would now seriously recommend testing Fire Frenzy on Shotguns for yourselves and seeing how it performs, as the stacking power boost may be more beneficial than either Full Bore or No Respite. If you don't know what 'Fire Frenzy' does, you can find out here: darktide.gameslantern.com/weapons/combat-shotgun

[@SholPK]

I just tested it, with Fire Frenzy 3 at max stack, Full Bore 3 and 25% Flak you can one shot a Mauler in Volley Fire. I also have 20% Maniac and also in Volley with full stack I could 1 shot bodyshot Scab Flamer, Trapper and Bomber. I don't have time to test it further right now and it's just on top of my head, but it's definitely strong. Edit: It's actually bugged, apparently the values are fucked in the Psykanium and in game the blessing doesn't seem to activate on shotgun.

[@theactionwindow5008]

​@@SholPK I love this, thanks for testing. AND I SAID I WAS DONE PLAYING SHOTGUN

[@dannylew8299]

Hopefully this gun gets some really detailed changes to it soon. The Lawbringer is the Arbites shotgun, and they use a ton of crazy ammo, way more interesting than a shot with a perfectly horizontal spread. They need to go full Judge Dredd on this thing

[@LewisB3217]

Technically anyone can use most of the shells, except executioner shells that track the target, those are for Arbites only, fire shells, slugs, shells that make you bleed more, etc

[@theactionwindow5008]

@@LewisB3217 Executioner shells would be SICK in Darktide

[@sturmmagnunstein1008]

They could easy make different marks too, like one that has the duckbill shot as the regular round, and can aim to become regular shots, but has to load a slug

[@heftyjo2893]

Shotgun is good at dealing with the dogs, burst'rs, and mutants since it stops down their charge at you pretty well. But yea, it gets old real quick having to constantly find time and space to jab shells into the gun; you spend more time reloading then actually shooting.

[@SuperCatacata]

Why it doesn't have a reload oriented blessing is beyond me. Shove in 2 shells at once for 4 seconds after getting a kill or something. Fatshark needs to get more creative with blessings in general. Most are very bland and don't do much.

[@theactionwindow5008]

@@SuperCatacata 100% agree with this. I hope we see more down the line.

[@Asraeks]

it should have an option to smash reload button to load in shells faster at the cost of stamina, something like in call of juarez gunslinger

[@DrunkGeko]

Can it actually stagger mutants? That's impressive

[@theactionwindow5008]

@@DrunkGeko It cannot. Only the Surge staff can do that iirc.

[@SuperCatacata]

Would definitely recommend trying out the autopistol with 'blaze away' and 'pinning fire' if you haven't yet. Those two blessings combined might just be the most OP combination in the game rn. It turns one of the worst weapons into an amazing one for even the highest difficulties. Not to the point of being actually OP IMO, as the autopistol's range is still terrible. But it certainly saves the gun and makes it quite viable. My favorite gun on Zealot now because of this.

[@theactionwindow5008]

I have this exact weapon on My Zealot and it's my favourite gun in the game atm. As you say, it's nuts busted, just seems to kill everything in seconds.

[@realBeltalowda]

Thank you for making the video! I run shotgun on Zealot with a Crusher and use it to take out medium/close distance threats playing tank for the team, stagger/knockdown ogres, and suppress and kill entire firing lines of ranged enemies with the special ammo firing mode.

[@biblequotesdaily6618]

i feel like they really missed out on making different shotguns with other ammo types, like slugs, incendiary, or even psyker rounds

[@EcchiRevenge]

How it performs is about what you would expect a real shotgun to be against bodyarmor. It should get 30% reload speed buff and at least double the number of reserve shells. Less shells carried than boltgun rounds is pathetic. Being stuck in ADS for a "pumping" animation after shooting also feels terrible.

[@Reginald-sc9tk]

I actually think the special shell is underrated. Drop 4-8 into a horde and there won't be much left of it. It can also, situationally, be used to stagger multiple gunners/reapers at once.

[@theactionwindow5008]

@@joaovitordickmann4353 pretty much this

[@Reginald-sc9tk]

@@joaovitordickmann4353 I've been playing around with the shotgun on my zealot for a while and I do not find it that hard to get value out of the duckbill shot. I was actually speaking from direct experience. I've even been in situations where I've had to use it to thin hordes in confined spaces. I consider it 4th in line for the throne for weapons with adequate horde clear potential. Ammo is what really holds it down. Though I intentionally run it with 10% reload speed as my second perk, I wonder if that impacts the special load speed.

[@anarcnamedjustin3451]

I just wish it worked like regular reload, where you could just special load a full load of the duckbills and just fire them all normally instead of just 1 reload at a time

[@emax-1309]

Shotgun is my main for Veteran, but I do with we got a "super shotgun" equivalent, like, a Melta or the one the Ogryn gets.

[@loganmulroney]

Nice video and great breakdown. It has been a lot of fun for me to use, but totally agree that it is an ammo hog and the dmg drop off at range is.... challenging. I don't have either No respite nor Full bore, but I'm trying it out with Flechette and man stopper...because those are the blessing I've found for it. I want to see if adding bleeding on crits helps out zealots or ogryns in my strike team who are going for a bleed build. I just want a wide spread cleaving shot to add a bunch of bleeding to a horde one time and laugh manically. Thanks for the break down, I'm going to try and find me some of those blessing and craft myself up another one that is a bit better.... because I'm getting bored of over using the MG 12 lasgun, however amazing it is. Also, I found the shotgun to live in the area of half way between a bolter and a lasgun, which does make it fun to use.

[@theactionwindow5008]

It is fun, I really enoy it. Had an amazing game the other night with a buddy on Zealot where it really put in work. I just really wish it was more consistent. There are moments where it just feels a bit limp.

[@fhmcateer]

Man-stopper can do hilarious things to grouped enemies when you land a crit. Downside is best way to crit is ADS with the deadeye feat

[@grazzer88]

Worth pointing out that if the enemy has a helmet then hitting the head does *less* damage than hitting the body. E.G. Hitting a flak armoured Rager with the stub pistol is 2 shot kill to the chest, but a 3 shot kill to the head because the head has carapace armour and the body has flak. It's somewhat unintuitive because it's not immediately apparent to a new player that enemies can simultaneously have different armour types and that the head is always a weak spot but doesn't always mean it takes the most damage. Which is to say your reticule will register a weak spot bonus damage proc on a headshot, but the bonus damage is like, 23 damage instead of 1 damage when normally it would be something like 800. Without seeing the numbers outside of the psykanium it's not apparent exactly how much damage you're really doing unless you're counting shots. This also does things for your blessings, i have noticed in passing, but feel free to test for yourself, but an enemy with a carapace helmet and flak chest armour counts as both a flak armoured and carapace armoured enemy. So if you have (+25) anti flak and (+25) anti carapace perks, they stack; and since many elites/specialists will have both armour types, this lets you get a whopping +50% damage on high priority targets.

[@PestNox]

I'm using it right now with my vet, lot of fun and in about 2 missions I have "mastered" it. I also make "Every shot counts" penance yesterday with the shotgun.

[@rozkaz661]

Ive found sucess with the shotgun on zealot as the damage dropoff isnt a big deal as you tend to be closer to enemies

[@theactionwindow5008]

I can see it doing work on the Zealot for sure. The only issue for them is ammo, it's bad enough on the Vet with his extra 40% lol. Still, I guess as the Zealot there's less pressure on you to shoot all the gunners so maybe the lower ammo isn't as big as a deal. I'll have to try it out my my Zealot when I can tear myself away from the Shredder

[@Axehilt]

From a Zealot perspective, the ammo is the worst thing and what needs improvement. * best ranged DPS in the game vs. Maulers (with no abilities/blessings involved) * great DPS vs. Hounds * good DPS vs. Mutant, Bulwark, Maniacs * great on-demand stagger with very good weapon-switch time * surprisingly accurate at longer ranges so you can still damage/stagger specials reasonably well (though it's not amazing in that role) * very bad ammo efficiency: 29k damage (all shots fired), when the average weapon is about 44k These make it a very good fit for Turtolsky Zealots, where their melee weapon clears hordes, but they need a ranged weapon to deal with elites/specials. Shotgun isn't my favorite weapon to fill this role, but that niche of being best DPS vs. Maulers really makes it satisfying when I do take it. (My favorite is usually a Braced Autogun.) In all of these pairings, the biggest weakness is Crushers, which Turtolsky builds are just doomed to be weak against unless you bring a Bolt Gun (but I dislike those due to their painful equip/reload speeds). But sure, Revolvers will kill Crushers somewhat okay too. Back to Shotguns, the "mobility" comment is weird, because Shotgun has the same lousy mobility as most ranged weapons (-20% dodge dist, 4 dodges, +13.7% dodge speed). (Braced are -10% dodge dist, and pistols are -3.75%, but the majority of ranged weapons have exactly the same dodge characteristics as the Shotty.) But I guess it's just because of the particular Sharpshooter build used here? (Also seems you should dodge-slide more to lengthen the duration of your dodges? Though maybe that prevents you being shot at which would limit your stam gain?) Definitely doesn't feel like a great fit overall for Sharpshooter, though it seems good enough to take as a niche playstyle (and obviously SS ammo passives help a lot with the main weakness of the gun). Then again, I'm a terrible Sharpshooter so what would I know.

[@theactionwindow5008]

Imo the Sharpshooter has talents that at least make its performance slightly more consistent/powerful in the context of those last 3 talents. I have the exact shotgun from the Video on my Zealot and it felt outright painful at times on Damantion, I really noticed the 35% less crit chance and a lot of the time it felt like a wet noodle canon. It's not a high tier gun for either class but I'd say out of the two the Veteran can at least make it work, whereas on the Zealot you're probably just taking it for the stagger as its killing power is so inconsistent. Re: mobility, yeah it's because you're using Duck and Dive here. I do dodge slide when the need calls for it but unless I'm Zealot/Psyker I haven't found I need to be dodge sliding 24/7 and on this exact build you may not have the time to slide before you need to dodge again. Mobility pretty useless on most guns, as long as it's above 51% for the extra dodge with the gun equipped it's fine. Gives u a little extra dodge speed at higher % but that is pretty negligible outside of Duck and Dive.

[@Paternova]

Oowee I just love me a big ol' boomstick

[@theactionwindow5008]

I AM. THE LAW.

[@Zepulchure]

I love the amount of info in this video. I would like to ask tho. Any chance on a video going into the different versions of shotguns, now that we have multiple. My personal interest, is in which to choose for certain things. Obviously fire is good for hordes and slug is good for elites and high prio targets. What I am looking for specifically. Is a crit bleed zealot build. Flechette and manstopper as blessings. Crits will cleave more and apply bleed. However not sure which one of the new ones would be best for that, if any stats or behaviours change between them outside of special ammo. My goto thought was the classic, duckbill spread would seem as tho it would give me more targets to crit-cleave-bleed for follow up melee destruction.

[@theactionwindow5008]

in about 30m there's a video going up on the Agripinaa shotgun. it's a gameplay video but it has a build guide attached to the end with some good info, let me know what you think

[@ThePilgrimzProject]

I th8ink the Revolver or Shotgun should be secondary weapons anyone can take, maybe less amo n dmg to balance it as a secondary. It would be good to keep Zelots using Flamer or anyone using Bolter in the game on higher levels

[@theansweris421]

good video! I played around with a 510 power shotgun in damnation and I must say it's a lot of fun, but it makes me wish I was carrying pretty much any other ranged weapon including the las pistol. The damage is just so lackluster on damnation, it's ridiculous. With full damage and ideal perks / blessings it struggles to kill most things in one shot, which it really needs to be able to do to make up for it's godawful ammo, reload and lack of effective ranged capability. I wish they just made it more like other video game shotguns where it cant hit anything at long range but can easily destroy most enemies up close in a single shot. Also, why can't the crit chance apply while hip-firing? The shotgun should be the gun that lets you play like an old school boomer shooter! Either they increase the damage by at least %50 or they double the ammo IMO, it just feels so weak right now on damnation (except for it's stagger).

[@theactionwindow5008]

It definitely needs some love, I 100% agree. You can make it work but it's definitely not consistent or reliable. Also, I think after the buffs the Las Pistol is pretty good! Haven't had time to dive into that one yet but I am really looking forward to doing that one :)

[@turakaisenvideot]

Every game developer who designs shotguns for their games should just play Rage 2 for a day or two to get an idea how to design a fucking shotgun. Shotguns need that big oooomph and hella kickback, satisfaction on pulling that trigger which deletes everything in front of you and what survives gets knocked on their backs and asses. Best goddamn shotgun ever made in a videogame.

[@theactionwindow5008]

@@turakaisenvideot looks like i need to go check this out

[@PestNox]

The feats for the shotgun I usually pick up are: 1-2-2-1-1-1 But I'll try some changes

[@Necromancerishness]

So for blessings you mentioned full bore, but isn't deathspitter straight up better? Even though it doesn't mention this in the description of the blessing (thank you fatshark for being transparent as always -.-), it actually STACKS 5 TIMES. So a tier IV deathspitter blessing, when fully stacked, would net you a 32.5% power increase, which seems more valuable than full bore.

[@theactionwindow5008]

So I did some research, and apparently this isn't correct regarding Deathspitter. HOWEVER it is correct regarding FIRE FRENZY, which despite mentioning absolutely nothing about stacks in the tool tip stacks 5 times. I don't have a SG with Fire Frenzy atm to test this atm but assuming all of that info is indeed accurate then Fire Frenzy would be a better choice for over Full Bore, although that would likely affect a couple of the 1SBPs in this video that are pellet dependent.

[@braisedtoast9002]

It's an amazing terrible weapon. The damage dropoff nerf killed it.

[@theactionwindow5008]

Perfectly said

[@Atilakus]

Look at the dmg table in inspection. Its not just about spread and crit chance. It flat out does more dmg in ADS mode. You shoud never shoot from hip

[@theactionwindow5008]

Good in theory but in practice there are moments when shooting from hip is the best option.

[@Atilakus]

@@theactionwindow5008 Im not saying not ever shoot from hip. But you were breaking down weapon in video and didnt mentioned it. Its counter intuitive. If you hit all pellets from hip and ads its different dmg. No real reason for that but they design it that way

[@ExValeFor]

@@Atilakus you did literally say you shold never shoot from hip

[@Atilakus]

@@ExValeFor You are right :) better wording would be avoid shooting from hip at all cost. If you are at pressure and need to shoot from hip, it would always be better to swap to melee (power sword).

[@sturmmagnunstein1008]

Speaking of shotguns, is there any plan of covering the kickback? I personally used it a lot pre buff, and im liking it a lot more now.

[@theactionwindow5008]

Same brother, one of my all time favourite guns. Will definitely be covering it on this channel soon, probably with some game play accompanying it.

[@MeleagaQ]

Revolver is fun for me until T3, for T4 & T5 not really. Will try ur build with the shotgun and see if its get better

[@theactionwindow5008]

It's by no means a top tier weapon. But it is fun.

[@PallyChan]

DPS is insanely low unfortunately. I really tried to make it viable on Damnation but it doesnt even feel like a shotgun. The boltun seems to be the intended upgrade to this weapon, and is debatably the best gun in the game with none of the downsides here. Go into the meatgrinder and you will realize that half the enemies in the game have terrible breakpoints or are basically invulnerable to the weapon. Would really like to see this weapon reworked to a short range, high mass penetration, high knockdown weapon with a larger ammo pool that is incentivized to be used on body shots. That way it can still be strictly worse weapon but still have a unique playstyle.

[@theactionwindow5008]

Agreed, I do think it will get some buffs in the near future though.

[@Acesahn]

Wait did they nerf it? I was wondering why the guys I shot at range kept getting back up lol

[@dannykuang9433]

I'd only use a shot gun if they implemented an ammo clip for it's shells instead of manually shoving them in, takes way to long to reload and honestly not very viable in harder missions. That and it's low ammo per reload and general ammo count, feels more of a hinderance to your team than anything. Cool weapon, no doubt, but very niche and very poor vs other ranged weapons.

[@GioChilaia]

in short, on dam HELL NA ! on other difficulties u can run with 4 lasguns :)