Shotguns with Clint Smith

Why should you have a shotgun? Find out why with one of our most popular guests, Clint Smith from Thunder Ranch!
thunderranchinc.com/
Excerpt from Episode 265 - Sept.5th, 2021
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[@Brett235]

People have been defending themselves for hundreds of years with a shotgun. Even during the era of lever guns people were using their single shot and double barrel shotguns to kill their adversaries. If I only had two hundred dollars for a home defense weapon I'd buy a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun with a 20" barrel and some buckshot.

[@tacticalbt1023]

Clint is the man.

[@russell83605]

I have a .45ACP for inside the house and my carry gun (two in fact). I have a Mossberg 590 A1 I keep in a closet inside the front door. The first four rounds are 00 buck, the fifth is a rifled slug. I have reloads immediately available (in the same closet). I use it for my outside the house critters both two and four legged. I live in a rural and heavily wooded area. I have a red dot type sight mounted on the receiver and a light mounted on the forend.

[@toddk1377]

How Clint explained it was spot on. I've always admired the power and capabilities a shotgun offers. I think shotguns have a bigger learning curve than rifles and pistols, but once you make that learning curve, that becomes a very effective weapon in multiple scenarios.

[@marcodellacqua15]

Well, yes, on the one hand shotguns hold few shots, but on the other, the average number of shotgun shots needed to stop a threat, rounded up, is 1.

[@bluebeastsrt]

I’m an old guy who’s been shooting for years. I used to keep a Mossberg 500 by the bed. But technology improves. I now keep a semiauto bullpup by the bed. It’s got a 10 round mag with one in the pipe. It functions flawlessly when using buckshot or slugs. So I don’t fear a malfunction any more than I fear a short stroke on a pump gun. And reload is lighting fast compared to a pump gun. Also it’s half the size of the old Mossberg. So it’s easier to manage inside the home.

[@oni_goroshi]

I've been a huge fan of Clint's for years and into guns since I was a little kid. I've had all kinds of shotguns from Winchester 86s and 97s to Remington 870s, but I recently picked up a Thunder Ranch edition Mossberg 590 and it's easily one of my favorites. The stock is cut down from the factory, the foregrip has picatinny rails on it for a weapon light, and the breacher muzzle is great for pain compliance if needed or making sure the muzzle won't slip off of a door when blowing locks and hinges. I ended up adding a 7 shot Velcro side saddle, large thumb safety, heat shield, and big dot tritium sight. With this configuration I don't think there's anything that could be improved for a home defense shotgun.

[@JohnLloydScharf]

My living room is seven yards. 2 oz of turkey shot at 21 feet is a stopper.

[@JohnPublic-dk7zd]

We have a couple boxes of 3 inch turkey loads...you are correct about the shell at in house range, it would make a mess...

[@NorthwoodsShooter]

Clint Smith is a bad ass. Much respect!

[@Jazzman-bj9fq]

Clint is the man... More knowledge and experience than most of us still breathing put together.

[@chopperking1967]

"Handguns put holes in people, rifles put holes through people, shotguns remove chunks of meat." - Clint Smith So don't bring a handgun to a Rifle or shotgun fight. - Me.

[@tomr3074]

I like using pump shotguns, I grew up hunting all game with one. Me and my father shot informal clay birds on lots of weekends . So I naturally gravitate towards my shotgun for most issues.

[@darronfozo6184]

Pump shotgun is outstanding !

[@dandyjones1185]

So much knowledge being dropped! Thank you Clint!

[@kylewood8327]

Great interview….My Remington 870, 18.5 in. 12 gauge, 7 round capacity with 00 buck works just fine for home defense.

[@theshapeexists]

Shotguns are my favorite. I own pretty much everything but you cannot beat the devastating stopping power of a 12 gauge. Its a very versatile platform and anybody who needs a defensive weapon can get one. A maverick 88 will only set you back $200 and you can wield 3" magnum slugs putting out over 3000 ft lbs of muzzle energy. Tell me of another gun that can do that for that price and be an absolutely great and reliable gun? It doesn't exist. If you can run a pump or semi and can reload efficiently, you are a formidable badass.

[@JohnPublic-dk7zd]

We keep a coach gun loaded, it is extremely simple, reliable...it is only two shells, but we don't expect to need the second shell in 99.92% of scenarios...and looking at a double barrel from the wrong end is still as bad a feeling as a person can have...

[@owyheekid7186]

The fighting shotgun is an awesome weapon. IMHO it’s negatives are; ammo is heavy and bulky, it’s magazine capacity is small and for some shooters the recoil can be an issue. For me it’s pluses far outweigh it’s negatives. The weapon is incredibly tough and reliable, it has an effective range of zero to over a hundred yards when it’s fed the proper loads and there are numerous special purpose loads available for it. Side note: Several of my staff during my career took classes at Thunder Ranch. Every one of them returned with sore trigger fingers! All of them benefited from the training and stated they were going to sign up for another class.

[@PopeMcGrope]

dont forget the the non-issue of magazine necessity, unless your running a saiga or other magfed shotgun platform.

[@owyheekid7186]

@@PopeMcGrope I agree with the magazine being a non issue. In the hands of a properly trained person the “traditional” pump gun never has an empty magazine until the user has exhausted all the ammunition on their person.

[@robkirkland7982]

Clint Smith is a Legend. Solid info from a Solid Guy.

[@donh1572]

Let’s not forget the guys who invented the New York reload. Started all their gunfights with multiple shots from a shotgun and relied on other guns to finish the job

[@BatColonyEvictor]

I definitely love a shotgun for home defense. Lots of options for ammunition, great power, and shooting accurately with three points of contact is easier under stress.

[@geckoproductions4128]

Met Clint many years ago when he was in Texas and I was a cop. He's right on about shotguns. As a retired police/military/civilian firearms instructor, I can say a pump shot gun is THE best home defense shotgun. Easy to learn, easy to shoot well, and relatively kid safe in patrol ready configuration.

[@randallminor4866]

What is patrol-ready configuration?

[@geckoproductions4128]

@@randallminor4866 starting with an empty pump, rack the slide back and then forward on an empty chamber. Slide won't move backwards now unless you pull trigger (on empty chamber) or unless you press the slide release. Then load magazine but do not chamber a round. Chamber is empty and will not fire until you do

[@randallminor4866]

@@geckoproductions4128 Thanks

[@fakeme3968]

For a good minute I thought the host of the radio broadcast was happy from Spider-Man aka Jon Favreau.

[@joshuataft5541]

Nice to hear him mention cut shells.. hell yes

[@nashonabo821]

Damn that was cut too short..

[@oklahomahank2378]

In re Buck v. slugs: Even if buckshot is one hole when it hits the target, the Buck will spread and create multiple wound channels. If that is what you want, then use Buck.

[@modernmountaineer]

i love that he mentioned shortening the stock, thats a major gripe with shotguns i have

[@ulflyng4072]

Common sense, well thought through teaching. Clint Smith is always enlightening and entertaining. Bring him and the like in for more. Thx What about Reid Henrichs? Just found your channel - subbed.

[@GunOwnersRadio]

Good suggestion!

[@Denman500.]

I love Shotguns,the do a lot gun.

[@hobbyking5364]

Clint Smith is top tier!!

[@darkpassenger65]

I have secured a spot in one of the upcoming Thunder Ranch Defensive Shotgun classes. I am also willing to wait 9 months to take it.

[@PPISAFETY]

I was in law enforcement for years before we got patrol rifles and the shotgun is my "special friend". In the last few years I worked, we had the shotgun in a rack right next to the M4 so we had the best of both worlds. I'm now retired and only have to cover what is in my home, and the immediate grounds, which amounts to 50 yards maximum. I've chosen a Mossberg 500 that has a seven shot magazine tube which is loaded with Federal Tactical Low Recoil 00 Buck shot which patterns extremely well in my gun out to 35 yards or so. I leave the magazine tube downloaded by 2 rounds, in case I need to load Federal Tactical Low Recoil Rifled Slugs. I keep those on the Side Saddle along with a couple more buckshot rounds. Federal color codes the buckshot with a red hull, while the slugs are bright blue, making the type of round visually distinct. Next to the shotgun I keep a bandolier that has more shells of both kinds on it that I can throw over my shoulder if the situation demands it, (such as in a civil unrest situation or natural disaster) but I only count on having what is on or in the gun to fight with when trouble starts. My Mossberg has a white light installed and that is it. It feels like an old friend after carrying and shooting such a weapon for 40 years and I have a lot of confidence in it. Having said that, I have no issue with someone who prefers an AR pattern rifle. Both are good tools.

[@GunOwnersRadio]

That's a good idea leaving the tube downloaded with some extra slugs on the side saddle. What's situation do you anticipate where you might need the slugs?

[@bigbadjohnpesek9894]

I've got four 12 gauges. Two bullpups. A JTS ak 12 gauge and an old double barrel that I don't shoot anymore. Man there's nothing better for home defense than a 12 gauge bullpup.

[@FrankLadd]

I never knew about the screw in choke problem. Glad to learn of it because it had not happened to me yet. I like the idea of shortening the stock on most of my shotguns by an inch but it is hard to do on the synthetic ones. So I've had to improvise. They fit pretty nice but they are not pretty if you look close.

[@GunOwnersRadio]

The Magpul Shotgun stock is pretty adjustable....

[@bmphil3400]

I have short arms. I love a 12-13 inch length of pull on everything.....my AK, my AR, my shotgun.....makes left hand transition much much more reasonable. I don't usually carry a long gun when I go visit my mom in a rural area. However my dad's old Winchester pump is there and I just load it up with buckshot... problem solved. Having a loaded long gun at hand just makes you feel better about things when you are out in the hinterlands.

[@rezlogan4787]

One drill I run is advancing fire from 50 yards from cover to cover with 00 buck against a water jug that corresponds to the size of the vitals on a typical combatant. Without fail, one or two pellets finds those vitals within one or two shots. Even one of those little pellets hits hard enough to split the jug, even at range. And keep in mind that’s just the vitals. The bad guy is probably full of holes everywhere including the vitals by the time I close distance.

[@ChrisEckeard]

Clint didn't hit the points that Buck is better then slug inside the home because of the likelihood of over penetration and higher recoil. Federal Flight Control is the go to for home defense.

[@1977Yakko]

There's a sweet spot with stock length. I have Magpul on my 18" Mossberg 590A1 and Remington Tactical. Without any spacers, I sometimes bump my nose with with my thumb given the angle of the grip but with just one spacer inserted, there's no issues. It comes with three more spacers to make it longer but there's no need for them. They're just gathering dust in a spare parts bin. Also, I have these shells from Winchester called Defender that are a slug and three 00 Buck. They're marketed as some sort of ultimate self defense ammo but are they just a gimmick? Am I better off just having 9 pellet 00 buck loaded in my shotgun? As for the Winchester Defender shells, they do pattern pretty nice out of my Mossberg. At about 10 yds aiming at center mass, the slug hits pretty much dead center with the three 00 buck hitting at about 12, 3 and 6 o'clock around the slug.

[@nicholasrakestraw9707]

I’ve been lucky. My Vepr 12 has an AR stock attachment. So even 9 rounds of 3” 00 isn’t all that bad. And a mag change is quick. CS specs makes really good mags.

[@russelsellick316]

Recoil puts people off. My 6 pound Ithaca beat the hell out of me. I fired two rounds of no 2 bird shot which was 1&7/8 oz of shot...out of a Mossberg. Ouch. A shotgun has more than enough power and no one really needs 3" magnums..

[@JohnPublic-dk7zd]

Recoil is an issue, thinking of my missus...she doesn't like heavy recoil, but likes being abused even less...she would suffer it under duress, knowing the alternative...I let her practice with low brass birdshot, she does like the idea that one shell of buckshot is probably all that will ever be needed...

[@jeffw1246]

I got a couple Mossberg 835s at local auction and put on 4 and 5 shot mag extensions. Along with all my 500s they're set up for defense, no pistol grips either. In an urban area I have heavy field #4 shot pheasant ammo if I load them up. With plenty of buckshot on hand. Not loading the gun up full so as to put a different load in is something I never thought of but great advice. I'm going to get a few 3.5 in buck loads to just see how they feel in the 835s, I ran a few 3in turkey loads in a chopped single shot-30 years ago none since. I ran 5 shots 2 3/4 00 buck full power in 835 fast as I could go and felt like a 20 ga. That backbored barrel does cut down on recoil.

[@toddk1377]

I've used lots of 3.5" loadings of #4 and 00 buck. Took many deer and coyotes from various distances. At close ranges for home defense, because most barrels that shoot these rounds are the long bird barrels, avoid them in all honesty. There's so much shot going down range that you'll have lots of lead penetrating deep or over penetrating the target and or walls. I'd stick with 3" and 2.75" loads for home defense. Normal #4 buck will knock the tar out of anyone's ass within defensive distances in the home, no doubt. The 3.5" loads really do nothing different at close ranges but offer more penetration due to the weight of all the shit, but these loads shine for large game. I have no doubt these loads kill an elk or a moose no problem, even grizzly bears. I could be wrong, but I've taken a few deer with them and the damage these rounds did was off the charts to the point it was such a mess, I stopped using them for close to medium ranges on deer. I will unload my 3" mag and slip a 3.5" magnum load in if I'm shooting at a longer distance where I know I need more pellets to make a dense enough pattern to humanely kill, and that's where these shine. I wouldn't go beyond 30-40 yards top with a 3" magnum load of 00, but the 3.5" load takes me up from 12 to 18 pellets, so this allows me to shoot 50-60 yards no problem. 3.5" #4 buck is great for deer at 50 yards in to 25 yards, closer than that is no difference than the other loads. Great for long distant shots on coyotes, meaning 60-80 yards depending on the choke and pattern, but I've taken a few coyotes with 3.5" #4 buck at 60 yards and usually they were hit with about 5-8 pellets. Not bad imo. For hd, I wouldn't use these loads. Especially because I want an 18" barrel and most 18" barrels are 3" chambered unless you cut and customize the bird barrel to a shorter length. Is that worth it for 3.5" loads? No it is not as these loads are no more effective on humans than what a 3" magnum is within house hold distances. These loads recoil harder, are really expensive if you find them, normally was a $1-3 a shot depending where and when you bought them, but now days I've seen them at $8/round, so a 5 round box is $40 sometimes even more. Great for large game and extending the range of the shot for a denser pattern, both open and wooded areas, but it's really just coating more money for hd and no real added benefits. That's what I say about 3.5" loads, from my experience using them for a few years, but I'm just a normal guy with a little experience in the woods and practicing, so take my opinion with a grain of salt and test the loads for yourself to make your own conclusions.

[@Hercules1-v9m]

Just make sure that your shotgun is chambered for 3.5 inch. If not the shell will jam.

[@paulmoss7940]

@@toddk1377 I would say you have a good and educated opinion, Sir.

[@toddk1377]

@@paulmoss7940 Thanks. I was just giving my honest opinion and my experiences hoping it may help someone if they had a question.

[@kennardjohnson7875]

2 and 3 quarters in turkey and duck loads are good.

[@stlpro2a386]

I'm a pump guy since 8 yrs old....Ithaca 37 20ga....PolyChoke. Never did a quail or pheasant get away because I didn't shuck fast enough. Prefer 12ga Mossberg Shockwave 14" barrel fixed cylinder choke, birdshead handle, magazine version with Crimson Trace green LaserSaddle laser and Streamlite TL-Racker fore end light and Boonie Packer style sling....short, light, nice balance, 5-20 rounds, easy reload/change load type/count....bird, buck, slug....indoors prefer 4BB. Momentary ON/OFF laser avoids telegraphing approach/location, overcomes lack of shoulder stock making for precision aiming from hip or shoulder height. Racker light makes for unquestionable target identity at firing......use second handheld light for searching, Racker light not used for searching not wanting to point locked'n'loaded at gkid sneaking in/out late/wifey/guest not sleeping well, nor serving as aiming point at my head for bad guy. Boonie sling proven in VN for flexibility at-ready carry, one or two hands free, or underarm, or on back. Shockwave is easy carry in short scabbard on pack, ATV, Jeep, horsey At in home ranges, differences in ammo lots, plated/FlightConrol, choke et el isn't a nickel's difference on target......bad guy's not going to criticize more or less one way or the other. Cut shells sound great in theory on the range, til you have to shuck'n'shoot, run that slick auto, a second round and the hulls hangs up, makes your BangBang a ClubClub.,

[@jameswolff4925]

I have a mossberg12 ga. 3" mag with tactical light and butt stock shell holder with 8 extra rounds...........Awesome shotgun..........Littole rough on recoil but bearable

[@GunOwnersRadio]

Love my 500... :D

[@makepeacewithyourmaker324]

The good thing about a shotgun is you don't need a magazine to shoot ;)

[@em9sredbeam]

9 mm hp, 00 Buck, and 5.56 (non green tips) have about the same penetration on tests on several layers of drywall.

[@TheDiameter]

And the 00 buck will do as much damage within 25 yards as 9 rounds of either of those calibers.

[@em9sredbeam]

@@TheDiameter not sure what the point of your response is. My point is people mistakenly think 00 won't go through multiple walls in their house if they miss because it's a shotgun. I've heard people say the same thing about hollowpoints.

[@hansblitz7770]

1 round of 00 as much damage as 9 rounds of 5.56? No.

[@TheDiameter]

@@hansblitz7770 It does, because they all three are equally lethal in a torso within said range. Nobody is walking away from either of them. Once the person is incapacitated the rest is semantics. And 00 Buck center mass at close range WILL do that 100% of the time.

[@kenleedy9132]

@@hansblitz7770 Maybe not, however all 9 pellets of buchshot are delivered at one time. Plus I'll bet that you can fire 2 rounds of buckshot in the time it takes to fire 9 rounds of 9mm or 5.56.

[@grassyknollblues]

Glad Clint touched on the old cut load

[@CatDaddySteve]

OG's Danger Show, a great defensive shotgun KZbin show hosted by a rural central California deputy

[@jackieeastom8758]

IMHO, Hollywierd has too much influence on modern day self defense! KISS is a great rule and proper training is critical!

[@mikebunner3498]

With the proper training and tactics shotguns are fight stoppers - OVER. Police and the military have used shotguns for defense. As covered in this video - Hollywood has convinced many that a shotgun cleans out the entire hallway. I know one thing for sure - People will perform the way they train... Crappy training equals crappy results = you with new holes in your body....

[@jimmorrison306]

Wouldn’t it be great to make a 00 round that rapidly expanded to 8” and stayed that way there on?

[@johntriplett4470]

Amen on the pistol grip. Nothing ruins the aesthetics of a Moss 500 like a Magpul stock. Hideous. The factory stock grip works great.

[@ulyssesdiaz1913]

Negative, they make them look slick as hell! Unless you have wood furniture they actually look much cooler with the Magpul stock on it.

[@GunOwnersRadio]

Aesthetics is subjective, On functionality the Magpul wins

[@ronaldrobertson2332]

I agree what he said that most shotgun stocks are too long and that he'd cut them down about an inch to make it fit better. I have an old Mossberg 500 that doesn't fit me right, so that'll be one thing I can do to fix that.

[@sb-di3of]

pistol grip gang. have fun with ur awkward cornering

[@born2drum1]

I have a 590A1 persuader with a 20” barrel (not the smallest gun in the world) and being able to shorten it up with the magpul stock by 2” makes maneuvering around my house a much smoother operation. I don’t care how it looks, I care how well I can shoot it. I’d paint it pink if it meant it would shoot better 😂.

[@brianvannorman1465]

U.S. Law Shield will gladly take your money and then drop you like a red hot rock when you're charged with a crime. OR they'll make you pay them back all legal fees should you be convicted.

[@DrBillHaberman]

On our family ranch I saw a hog it was 200 pounds it was shot with a 7 1/2 bird shot at 10 yards it was shot in the head neck area and it fell like it was hit with a slug. At close range anything you put down the tube is gonna work. If you don’t believe me shoot them in the face. If you get both eyes the threat is passed. What do you need in a shotgun is a shell that fits the gun and anything will work at very close ranges. So what is the best shotgun shell for self-defense within the house, the one that is in your gun. Everything else is worthless. And by the way the hog was shot with a 20 gauge. And I killed a black bear 1/16 inch shy of Boone and Crockett with one shot from a 20 gauge slug. You don’t have to have a big gun if it’s a shotgun it’ll work.

[@Joe3pops]

12:00-13:30....please let Clint respond. You literally didn't let him answer your first two questions???!!!

[@dustysavoy6951]

I guess i missed it, but why are we wanting our shotgun stocks to be so short? Is it not more important that it fit someone properly according to their frame. I'm 6'3 and long arms and my least favorite thing to do is shoot slugs with my arms all bunched up and my nose right on top of my hand...

[@dustysavoy6951]

Does anybody recall the reasoning behind the advantage of a short stock? Is it strictly maneuverability? I shoot my shotguns quite a bit, became quite fond of them the last couple years and gave the AR's a rest. I like running the magpul but I like it to be the proper length of pull for my size, I could shoot #8 trap loads all day with any size stock, but if it's 12" or shorter LOP with slugs or 3" mags, I want that gun to fit....

[@gaxgaming6953]

@@dustysavoy6951 Shooting with a shorter stock lets you bring the stock further into you body(shooting on your pectoral muscle), then shooting from the pocket of your shoulder. This helps you better absorb recoil a bit more efficiently(partnered with the push/pull technique), and allows for faster shooting. I would only apply the shorter LOP thought process to defensive or "tactical" shooting and even then, it really depends on arm length.(you may find 13" or longer is the shortest you can go with long arms) A lotta times the shorter stocks benefit people with shorter arm lengths, where 14.75' stocks are too bearish. When I shoot clays, my preferred LOP for that is 14". I hope that at least helps shed a little light on the reasoning.

[@mikewithers299]

​@dustysavoy6951 I think what Clint was saying is fixed stocks on his gun are an 1" too long. Each person needs a different length of pull (lop). At 6'-3" you are probably needing all of it. I have long arms and need all I can get too.

[@dp981]

You had me until the crackhead pillow endorsement.

[@kenleedy9132]

No room in your life for redemption?

[@cesarpareja2002]

🤣🤣👍🏼