Should A Old Furnace or Air Conditioner Be Replaced Cause Age

I replaced my dad's furnace cause he wants to rent out his apartment. He really wanted to replace his 34-year-old furnace. I couldn't talk him out of it so I replaced it. Yet after replacing and examining the heat exchanger see that this furnace could have run another 5-10 years.

[@Jshortca]

Those old heat exchangers were durable and the equipment back then was made to last, unlike today where everything is disposable, even the high end crap they are building today.

[@erictold]

I replaced my 30 year old 60% afue furnace to 95% afue some years ago. Flue pipe and roof vent was also replaced to PVC. The heat exchanger in the old unit was rock soild. I just replaced it for a cosmetic issue or fun ... or efficiency if I have to justify the replacement. Everything was done DIY per code with county permit and inspection. After several years, I'm now really happy with the new unit. I could clean inside the duct and install a better filter housing. It runs smoother, quieter, cleaner, more efficient.

[@thehvachacker]

DIY or not as long as done to code and properly the system should last you awhile. What brand did you install?

[@jake2213b]

I was glad to hear you said don't replace because of age. I have heard other KZbinrs look at the date made and tell the owner that it needs replaced. The only way I replace anything if it cost to fix is high or keep repairing it.

[@thehvachacker]

I usually only recommend if a compressor failure, refrigerant leak, or cracked or almost compromised heat exchanger. I do warn my customers to start saving for a new unit once these machines hit 20 years. This way they're ready for the inevitable or replace when they are ready. I gave away my answer when I mention what I do in most of​ my videos. I bring machines back to life as long as it won't harm my customer

[@superiorcomfortheatingairl3373]

I agree 100% with you, the problem I am seeing is most manufacture of HVAC equipment is treating the contractor like a “Big Box Store”, quite a few consumers will not go back to the same brand if they have had multiple issues with their equipment or they feel like the out of warranty parts are being charged way to high. Unfortunately Home Depot & Lowe’s will sell 4 to 5 different brands of appliances, HVAC business either carry 1 or 2 brands and offer different tier level of that certain brand. More or less I am saying is if a Manufacturer feels that 10 or 12 years is the life of furnace or A/C and knowing a customer that has there existing equipment that they might loose is no big deal because they know that they will pick up a new customer that had a different brand with the same situation. So the question is does a contractor switch brands every 10-12 years so we don’t get blamed for selling crap to a homeowner

[@thehvachacker]

We are in tough positions, if a certain brand only last 10-12 years then I would stop selling that brand. It’s why I may fail if I wanted to ever work for myself. I feel like I lost a patent when a compressor dies. Lennox makes nice machines yet the evap coils is why I would never install one. It’s why this year I started doing Coleman’s. I put a few Evcons in over the years and no problems from them. Raheem’s are nice but I hate unbrazing a txv.

[@superiorcomfortheatingairl3373]

The HVAC Hacker overall you brought up a good point and you can tell by the comment section that this is a subject either has two answers: replace, replace, replace or repair, repair, repair. I been doing HVAC 30 years I understand HVAC companies do both but you can tell which companies is based more in sells or repairs. The thing is you would succeed if that venture ever happens, the key thing is do not get in to a situation where the distributor pushing you into # of sells, and let homeowner decide repair or replace, unless of coarse the situation is dangerous where a homeowner has to replace the equipment,

[@chrisgormley5751]

I worked on a system recently that was from 1985. The shell was rusted but the reason for the service call was for a capacitor that failed. Customer was very happy to know that they didn't need a new system. They dont make systems like that anymore.

[@thehvachacker]

They don't make them like this anymore. It is all thin wall stainless steel heat exchangers that will rot through in 15 years

[@brianellsworth4767]

A customer of mine has a 35-year-old Trane. The filter system that feeds air from the bottom is useless and the blower wheel plugged up with dust. I cleaned it but the coil is plugged..The unit needs parts. Just easier and less labor to replace the furnace with a good coil cleaning and installing a good media filter. I won't feel bad about installing a newer safer furnace that also improves air quality just because it still works and no one died yet .

[@rayvoorhies7180]

That heater would be great in a workshop. Stick it in a convenient corner. Use minimal ducting and someone's backyard shop can be used all winter. Might be worth putting on Craigslist.

[@thehvachacker]

A buddy took it for his garage

[@rayvoorhies7180]

@@thehvachacker maybe it'll get a few more years of service. It's still a good unit.

[@Abhishek-C92]

HVAC HACKER-best repairman and best dad ever,take care man.love from india.

[@thehvachacker]

Thanks Abhishek

[@brentaudi9354]

Totally understand that you gotta do what you gotta do. That furnace should become someones garage furnace. It is in great shape! I love that Coil! Man, stuff coming out today is garbage compared to stuff just 30 years ago.

[@thehvachacker]

There is a sad reason for that. It’s bad for business for the HVAC corporations making equipment. They sell more units the way they make them today

[@brentaudi9354]

@@thehvachacker Those Rat Bastards!

[@williegillie5712]

I’ve rebuilt many a caliper. Some are worth rebuilding. If the piston is pitted take em in and get a new set. New calipers are pretty cheap in most models of cars and they usually want your cores back when ya get the new ones. A kit usually comes with the two piston seals and new washers for the caliper bolt. I put an old furnace in my garage worked great

[@thehvachacker]

I am saving the condenser and eval coil for a future small project. only 2 tons yet to use to quickly cool down a garage when I buy a house. As for the calipers I bought new/ rebuilt calipers with rotors, pads, ball joints and am considering shocks, springs, and most the front end suspension. I just need time...................

[@hyperlexis]

Eh it may have run but that looks like a 60 AFUE with a pilot. Yes it would run, but boy it would do so very inefficiently. And one thing omitted was the burners -- if shot could be hard to find and they could be pumping out a lot of CO. So if dad could have afforded it, a 30+% efficiency boost isn't a bad thing. Especially cause his boy could install for free labor....

[@donnierobertson3088]

Nice job

[@jamesb1221222]

I found an old furnace someone was scrapping. They gave it to me because something was wrong with it. I'm not an expert on these things, but I found out that something was wrong with the main board. I ripped it out, hooked up some toggle switches and put it in my garage. I run a propane cylinder from a grill and control the gas with a check valve. I NEVER leave it unattended. Looking to find another older unit that was all mechanical and use the guts in my furnace to make it a bit safer... But the point is it's physically sound and works great. I'm not sure how far from MD you are, but if you were close i'd love to buy that evaporator from you.

[@thehvachacker]

Nj the furnace will make a good shop heater for a friend of mine

[@rodsturgis9941]

What kind of new system are you now going to install ?

[@thehvachacker]

I am installing a Coleman

[@oldtimehomestead1554]

Personally I would rather have old furnace like that because it does not have circuit board. They were not as susceptible to surges from lightning or brown outside from electric companies. Cheaper to work on they last forever.

[@thehvachacker]

Me too, if I ever buy a house with a steam boiler I will convert it. remove all the electric and gas valve and install a powerpile/ millivolt gas valve and allow it to make its own power. Its why this furnace is a 80% with a psc motor. I had to go with a 14 seer to get a tub and fin condenser instead of a microchannel.​

[@Jimddddd1981]

I agree. A furnace should not be replaced solely on age. But that is just one furnace and they aren’t all that lucky. It’s a case by case basis.

[@thehvachacker]

No,​ they are not all this lucky I been servicing this system and making sure it's operating correctly 2+ times a year

[@RealityRenovations]

I say replace any r22 system with a leak and recommend thinking about replacement even if it doesn't have a leak... as far as furnaces go if its got a good HX I dont generally push for replacement unless there are other issues. That being said efficiency and comfort can be a big reason for replacement even if the system is functional. I wouldn't say a new system is much more reliable than an old system with all the bs electronics packed inside.

[@More350Power]

When my 19 year old Trane XV90 was torn our years ago due to needing some expensive parts and wanting to add central air,, we found that all of the insulation inside with the heat exchanger was burned to a crisp down to the bare metal. No idea what happened with that one.

[@DavidMay2nd]

Undersized ductwork. Or not enough return air.

[@jameslippincott]

agree with you 100 percent! Scare tactics are a bullshit way to sell IMO...

[@thehvachacker]

Many try using carbon monoxide to sell units. It is easy to sell a system when someone trust you and you been doing what you can to keep it running over the years

[@theunit5939]

Man look at that evap and how thick the coil i vs the cheap thin crap they make now and we wonder why they always leak lol.

[@thehvachacker]

The sad part is the coil today also is seeing twice the pressure and is paper thin compared to this old coil

[@edjovi3677]

bill back then shit was made a lot thicker and better !!!!!! the shit to is thin !!!! great job edbonjovi aka leak master

[@thehvachacker]

Yes, why can't they make the machines to last though? I like servicing equipment more than replacing. When I am replacing usually I feel like I lost a patient. Since most systems, I replace I been taking care of for years

[@tiredoldmechanic1791]

He'll be lucky to get 10 years out of a new system.

[@thehvachacker]

Hopefully the condo is sold off way before then, yet sad but true. This new stuff will never go 40+ years like some of the singers or thatchers, crystlers i still have in operation

[@adamcicciarelli238]

I woulda got rid that thing long time ago and put a high efficiency in

[@thehvachacker]

For strangers i don’t care about they can get high efficent machines. If I care about someone they get psc motors.

[@TheGhettoLobster]

Most service companies wont stay afloat without pushing sales, whether that be maintenance agreements or new equipment. It may seem unethical but our numbers affect us on our review. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Make equipment that can actually last as long as the old stuff did.

[@thehvachacker]

I haven’t sold a system or any maintenance agreements at my day job in along time. Yet maintenance agreements is what it’s all about. The install department makes money on new installs we make money keeping the machines running until they need replacement. If the machines are new then we lose money on warranty work. We shouldn’t have to have 4 guys full time swapping evap coils, makes no sense old r22 coils were thick and lower pressure. New 410a coils paper thin and handling twice the pressure

[@HamiltonMechanical]

in your opinion, what usually fails first, the furnace or the a/c?

[@thehvachacker]

On newer equipment the ac usually will fail first since 410a evap coils love to leak. My area is boiler heavy so heating systems on average last 25-40 years. Ac systems seem to be good for 20-30 years. Yet both will last longer if maintenance is done properly

[@brianellsworth4767]

A Mercedes, Volvo, or Audi, in the driveway and if nobody sees it they won't spend any money. It seems only the poor customers are concerned with efficiency. It is a shame that the energy savings might cost more in the long run because of less reliability. I just like to think that it is safer.

[@Walterz930]

Bring it back to life and do a restore on it

[@thehvachacker]

If I had time, I gave it to a friend who wanted it

[@GameMaster-tx8sc]

I will take the 2 tone coil

[@FlyEaglesFly19111]

Yes...and no. New equipment the refrigerants are not as efficient. That is why they are so big. I wish you could remove that panel when installed. Most times the unit is to tight against a back wall to open that.

[@thehvachacker]

I thought most the coils became bigger so they could use a single thinner condenser to reject heat quicker. That was just what I thought yet no actual facts to back my thought

[@gorak9000]

Takes a LOT of inefficiency to equal the cost of the new unit and the labour. Also, most hvac people are complete scam artists and the scum of the earth. Last year, my mom got told that her A/C unit was bad, and because it was 10 years old, to replace it all. Quote was $9500. I diagnosed it over the phone as a bad capacitor in the condenser unit. Neither fan or compressor running - problem had only been happening for a short time, so not likely to have caused damage. Had her swap the capacitor with the other condenser (2 separate systems, upstiars / downstairs - it's HOT in Phoenix) to verify (yeah, that was super fun to do over the phone). Of course with the other capacitor from the other unit in it, it started right up. The tech that came even connected his meter to the capacitor and "showed" her "it's not the capacitor", meanwhile it was bulged as could be when I saw it later. I asked her "ok, did he have the meter in capacitance mode? What numbers were on the meter? Do you know what numbers should be there? How do you know it's really bad and he's not just BS'ing you?". She phoned him the next day, chewed his ass out, called him a liar and a scam artist, ordered 2 capacitors from Amazon for $26, and back in business for another 10 years. Dirty dirty scum...

[@chrismoody1342]

You ever hear of efficiency. ECM motors are way more efficient. Coils are bigger indoors and out for better heat transfer. Moving from 10 seer to even entry level 13 seer is 18% more efficient. I suppose you are still drive around in a 60’s car getting 12 mpg.

[@thehvachacker]

Ok so efficiency means nothing. So I sell my customer a new high efficient furnace and ac. For 11k they pay 110 bucks a month with their existing system for fuel. They will never recoup saving money with efficiency. That’s a 11 years of fuel and electric bills to operate existing system. Now if the heat exchanger is cracked or getting near paper thin that’s another story. I like cars from the 60’s just no where to store them. I do have engines that consume lots of fuel I also have cars with hi fuel mileage. I’m not going to not buy a v8 Camaro SS and worry about fuel consumption. Efficiency isn’t a reason to upgrade. It’s an excuse many use to try and sell equipment. I try never to sell equipment and have changed out 5 units this spring/ summer. I only change if the system will be a problem or unsafe to my customers. I rather service work since I’m a mechanic not a salesman

[@davidblarstron767]

I feel equipment should be fixed until they are phisicaly imposible to repair . (But then again im a decroisant extrìmist that will apily watch a furnace blow itself up before even considering a change)

[@thehvachacker]

I keep them running until a major failure which is usually a heat exchanger. I still have power pile systems operating

[@jo6520]

You could get some money at the scrap yard for all that aluminum

[@thehvachacker]

I could I have many coils and a few systems to tear apart

[@shadowbanned69]

Nope...some of the old systems are bulletproof...but it all depends on worth, expected years left, price to convert, ect... Unfortunately those shitheads at the EPA Want you to replace it with a disposable unit...everything today is all disposable P.s nice video bill

[@thehvachacker]

Yea unlike this trane I am replacing just to make dad happy. This furnace and ac system is built to last.

[@shadowbanned69]

Hell I have 3 carrier 5 ton condensers from 1973...I'm rebuilding all 3 for refrigeration systems

[@thehvachacker]

Show them off on here. They blue?

[@shadowbanned69]

I am I made a video about some...just havnt uploaded yet...kinda there light blue grey and silver...Carlyle compressors...pressure switches are very ancient...and there's the old motorminder boxes on the side I also fixed 2 Miller refrigeration (aka) nordyne from the 80s also..up n running now

[@llservice3376]

Guess they don't make em like they used to HUH. Microchannel TXV's less copper. Getting like cars JUNK

[@thehvachacker]

It's bad for business if they kept making systems to last forever with generic parts

[@carlmccoy662]

Built to last is a thing of the past. It is not a good business model.

[@thehvachacker]

So true Carl yet how is it fair to the customer.

[@WTC7]

Are your parents divorced? I think I saw a video of you at your mom's and now one at your dad's.

[@thehvachacker]

Yes they are and my dad is remarried