Should Atheists Celebrate Christmas?

[@Harry_von_Karma]

Goose.

[@amimir330]

yes goose

[@BomberBlur07]

yes

[@KaenTH2536]

Here in Romania, we don't have turkey for Christmas (atleast my family never had). Chicken or goose for Christmas or/and New Year (tho goose is better). So yea, goose is based, like Harry's tastes.

[@airesbattleblade732]

We eat ham, not so much for religious reasons but because we raise hogs. So which was used as food for Christmas/yule first, ham or goose?

[@Juimimi]

Can you even digest food with that robotic carcass of yours lmao

[@Azelf89]

“I don’t believe in your child’s future, but you can bet your arse I will celebrate his birthday.” Good lord, that killed me. Bowl is just a magnificent specimen.

[@ultimamage3]

Good thing that line dropped after the minute mark, or else KZbin would flag that for murder

[@DoYouSeeBananaManTH]

@@ultimamage3 dam that’s a smart line

[@lambda5992]

yeah Bowl is fucking ruthless and that's why we love him

[@abbysun9333]

That’s why bowl is a fucking legend.

[@GregoryMom]

@@lambda5992 Not as ruthless as Harry, though. I still want to read the speech

[@universalshyguy3369]

"Culture is influential, It is meant to be shared" Hence why Atheists can celebrate christmas The speedrun ending

[@AstridRuna]

I saw that too. What the Apollo in this convo might have said in response is that Christmas has to back to its "Christian" roots because of the toxic consumerism going on, so it probably wouldn't have been the end after all.

[@GermanKinsmen]

@@snuurferalangur4357 Christmas has nothing to do with religion at this point.

[@henry_cool_man9280]

easy win

[@emmagrace6396]

​@@GermanKinsmen that's a little too far. Christmas is still celebrated in very religious ways by many people, and in some countries by most people. Santa Claus is based off St. Nicholas, who was an actual man that existed in the early church. The name literally means "Christ mass". It's still a very religious holiday.

[@B-B-Bentles]

@@snuurferalangur4357 I personally think Christmas is just a massive tradition in almost every culture that doesn't practice another religion

[@-hello6177]

Sigma Harryset: Advocates for turning humans into labrats Debunks all your points Posts pic of food Refuses to elaborate Leave

[@pandaking6247]

this is such an underrated comment, harry is truly the biggest sigma male of all

[@OverZeelous]

My favorite quirk of Harry is that I can totally see him banging his head against a wall and screaming like a banshee before telling you why you're silly/a fool.

[@coolunclebean]

Don't forget "STOP THAT, IT IS SILLY!"

[@GregoryMom]

You forgot “Accidentally glimpse the outer cosmos and channel it into a primitive format of text combined with utilitarianism, thereby creating a scripture so horrifically dangerous that it razes the minds of any known mortal who dares to comprehend it and is removed from the public eye indefinitely for their own safety”

[@TheDuke7]

Gringo siding with Harry until he realized that Harry was advocating for the complete abolishment of Christmas then immediately backtracking got a belly laugh out of me, not gonna lie.

[@RedSunUnderParadise]

Tbf, I'd go Full Monke if Xmas was abolished. How else am I supposed to get My free cologne/graphics card/Shirt.

[@PentaCrab]

Ah yes, the four seasons of the year: -Spring -Winter -Summer -The orange leaf rain

[@sktalking223]

Don't ya dare to forget monsoon

[@logicnorespond7100]

-the damp green -the cold ice fall -the hot yellow glow -fall

[@ethanstar4160]

we all know autumn is the best

[@3F34N1M4T3S]

@@sktalking223 UNTIL IT FINDS MY DREAMS HAVE DISAPPEARED

[@bruhbrat9038]

-the too hot to drink hot coca but too cold for ice tea -the middle schooler's heaven -the leaves strike back -the time where a turk travels around the world in a wooden box, dragged on by horned horses, in one night

[@Wouhlven]

This feels like a christmas dinner! Everything starts nice and calm, then in the end everyone's arguing! That's christmas spirit! oh oh oh!

[@laky3348]

oh boi brings me back in time!

[@ImadesanieBlush]

Its "HO HO HO" not "oh oh oh" you Ipad kid! (this is a joke I don't mean harm)

[@ramicane1671]

Yeah, what’s up with that? Here in Argentina I’ve never heard of such happening, it’s usually a peaceful day, maybe it’s due to our culture or traditions, it has always bugged my mind that foreign families can’t get along at the table

[@kingacrisius]

@@ramicane1671 It's generally the families that bring their extended family/in-laws. Due to America's culture, not everyone in a family has the same religious/political beliefs, and sometimes they are outspoken about it. This isn't something that happens with every family and I'm of the opinion that it isn't even particularly common, but it does happen.

[@AlphishCreature]

Yeah, especially the ending with the Christmasy music as people spoke past my reading speed was such a spot-on representation of families devolving into heated arguments.

[@phantomgrape]

God Harry just posting his dinner while everyone else is on fire was so fucking perfect, absolute chad move

[@gunk7014]

this shall henceforth be called harryposting

[@Leo-ok3uj]

@@gunk7014 Every time someone posts his food in any chat I will call it Harryposting now forwards

[@theblizzard8735]

@@Leo-ok3uj Same

[@MPHJackson7]

I love how the same guy whose opinion had to be cut from a video for the good of society is the same guy who just posts what he's having for dinner in a random conversation.

[@WoobertAIO]

I would normally consider your opinion invalid because of "furry pfp" but Oneshot was such a good game, artistic masterpiece and metaphysical analysis that I can't do it.

[@somerelativleyuninterestin4763]

*“I don’t believe in your child’s future but you can bet your arse I will celebrate his birthday”* Jesus lord you killed him

[@nukiradio]

Didnt have to do my boy dirty like that

[@doggerlander]

I love that in the end the message is still somewhat positive

[@abbysun9333]

This is why bowl is a fucking legend.

[@Rathdrgnknight]

"You're just being cynical. Culture is influential and is meant to be shared." Gringo defeated their own argument right then and there. Culture is influential and is MEANT TO BE SHARED. Anywho that was an excellent watch and the ending made me laugh.

[@loogieloogie8282]

I was waiting for someone in the video to point that out and was disappointed when no one did

[@totallyuniquelily0]

Gringo defeated their own argument multiple times to be honest. During the whole debate he was arguing from under 2 layers of hipocrisy.

[@Silver-Rexy]

@@totallyuniquelily0 2 hypocrisies make a sincerity though, Gringo was all powerful

[@robertoazuaje9279]

That was such an obvious weak point I'm amazed Em didn't point it out right then and there xD

[@DameOfDiamonds]

So our culture is Christian? Very epic

[@essixthefalcon8657]

As an Atheist with a Christian family, I see Christmas more as a "family holiday" - we focus much more on family, gifts, spending time together than celebrating birth of Jesus, so in my eyes, it's just a big ass dinner with gifts and 'Home Alone'. I'm of belief everyone should be able to celebrate everything - maybe someone wants to experience a new culture? You shouldn't say they can't take part in it just cus they aren't Muslim or Sikkim and the like. Let's all enjoy our traditions and holidays and let others experience it!

[@Gamerguy826]

I've been an atheist my whole life and It's really more like an early new year's celebration to me. It's my favorite holiday but I never accepted it's religious importance because it had no personal meaning for me. To me Christmas was really about putting aside hostility or animosity towards others like rivalries or grudges. The Christmas truce of WW1 comes to mind as an example.

[@kapon1845]

you can celeberate it, but dont try to change the meaning of it. all of that is part of christmas and always has been, you just celebrate those parts of it more than the birth of Christ. and i can say i do the exact same. I dislike when people try to make Christmas toxic though.. hbo max movie for example.. 😀

[@MrAapasuo]

@@kapon1845 I mean christmas period has always been celebrated before christianity was even a thing in various cultures, the the holiday was added to christisnity exactly because no one wanted to stop a good reason to have an party its also imo why catholicism has so many saints, they gave an reason to throw in an festivity for normal people

[@5spec]

Yes, saying atheists shouldn't celebrate Christmas is shit, I think believing in religion is incredibly dumb but I'm sure as hell not wishing ALL religious people to never celebrate anything and be happy.

[@kapon1845]

@@MrAapasuo christ is literally in the name of christmas.. they have celebrated things LIKE christmas, but not the present thing we know as christmas. that's like saying the spanish celebrated halloween too lol i mean i guess (?) but it's diff

[@JuizpaNautical]

In the end, the conversation turned to showcasing the true meaning of Christmas. People yelling at each other.

[@theblizzard8735]

Jesus would be proud.

[@MPHJackson7]

True meaning of Christmas Dinner at least

[@LordTyph]

I thought that was politics.

[@theblizzard8735]

@@LordTyph That too.....at this point politics and dumb, incoherent arguments are indistinguishable from each other

[@LordTyph]

@@theblizzard8735 doesn't help that one side is a screeching chimpanzee bringing everything down to their level. The difficult part can be figuring out which side is actually doing it and which side is just being demonized. >_>

[@Somebodynobody10]

"you're just being cynical. Culture is influential. It's meant to be shared." That is the exact moment that Gringo lost the debate for good. By opening that door, he made it hypocritical not to share Christmas with atheists and others, if Christians can take Yule and other pagan rituals and "share them" with Christians.

[@lovelytigress227]

I know right? Unless I just have awful reading comprehension, I'm sorta surprised no one immediately countered that. But I, too, have been in dumb discord convos and thought, in hindsight, "mmmmmmmm I should have said this," so whatever.

[@ChawedMirthPrattEnterprise]

@@lovelytigress227 That's a completely normal thing, our brains can only work so fast and we get tunnel-visioned. I'm guessing this happened in the convo of this video.

[@nekoluxuria7721]

Honestly what makes arguments and debates interesting to look back into. I have numerous debates where i just went "in hindsight I should have gone with this argument instead" it also helps improve your argumentative skills a bit when you see your own flaws too.

[@nekoluxuria7721]

@@abbysun9333 it is, kind of a bummer that I don't have many debate board discords, one of them which I try to egg them into opening doesn't really do that since they aren't very confident in their argumentative skills, but well I suck at debates too and I find them fun to get involved into even if I get railed into next week

[@abbysun9333]

@@nekoluxuria7721 I’ve always get told to join debate clubs since like a decent amount of my friends are in it but every time I see them, they constantly look like they’re fighting for their lives.

[@oiopquatro4846]

As a Christian, yes, atheists can celebrate Christmas. It's just a holiday, and it has been too commercialized for us to think about the original meanings. The fight at the end was the best part

[@Hakusheri]

*two atheists casually discuss their holiday plans* “HoW cAn YOU cElEbRatE it when you DoNt EvEn BeLiEvE iT?!”

[@guifire9747]

Yeah, for all their "sharing and loving each other mindset" they kinda ruined an enjoyable mood for no reason that their own ego Then again i won't complain, the debate was enjoyable

[@TheManBehindtheFunny]

Gringo a nice guy, but yeah, fuck, what a shitty thing to say to ruin the mood.

[@aaronji2838]

Ah yes, in true fashion of Christmas dinners, the table started insulting the others about other topics in the end... Joyeux Noel à tous!

[@iguessimhere2632]

“I went to Christian school, that’s why I’m an atheist” That line resonates so much with me lmao

[@jamclone]

I went to a school that overhypes christianity. I am also an atheist

[@iguessimhere2632]

Yeahhh it gets really annoying, especially when your family’s also really religious

[@jamclone]

@@iguessimhere2632 im lucky in that respect, because my family aren't religious at all. Im also in a non Christian school now

[@captainclarky5352]

Christian schools are the number one centres for people becoming atheists

[@SDayle]

I went to a Christian school and only one kid _seemed_ to be Christian. And I'm stressing "seemed" because the one "hint" is the fact that he never partecipated in our daily "Hide the crucifix from the nun" activity.

[@frenchbaguetteintelligence]

Fuck… I thought programming this for tomorrow would mean this would automatically get posted tomorrow… Yanno… without anyone else knowing about it. This is… embarrassing.

[@apixelateddog4664]

well, either way, im gonna be hyped for this

[@amedeotoraldo5840]

we're happy this way too, personally i now open KZbin just hoping to see a video of yours

[@fissionphoenix4995]

What you wanted was to schedule it with "set as premier" unchecked / slid to "off."

[@frenchbaguetteintelligence]

@@fissionphoenix4995 Ah, thanks!

[@frenchbaguetteintelligence]

@@amedeotoraldo5840 Appreciated, truly.

[@youkaliciousx299]

"I don't believe in your child's future, but I will still celebrate his birthday." *damage 100*

[@tyuufdearjkdohdf905]

I just wanna say that Harry's dinner looks absolutely delicious

[@alexie832]

Yes! I want to make that and eat it just to try 😋🤤

[@anthonyradford8605]

The entire exchange where it devolved into “JUST BECAUSE IM NOT THE RIGHT PERSON TO SAY IT…!” to “your profile picture is ugly” is amazing

[@michelepella2768]

MY OPINION: GOOD YOUR OPINION: CRINGE

[@doozy5184]

Harry seems like a perfectly reasonable person in this compared to the "Should Science Be Morally Ethical?" video.

[@frenchbaguetteintelligence]

Harry is the most reasonable person I know, although statistically speaking that says more about me than it does about him.

[@JuanManuel-ii1ov]

@@frenchbaguetteintelligence Much SAO Abridged?

[@ChawedMirthPrattEnterprise]

I've been thinking of a response to write and the only one I can say with confidence is that Harry is a Star Trek villain.

[@buycraft911miner2]

@@JuanManuel-ii1ov I was thinking I had heard it somewhere

[@dwaynethecuckjohnson2.08]

Harry is always very rational. He's just TOO rational to the point where he sees pretty much everything through a purely utilitarian lens.

[@izy6088]

Jesus wouldn't mind atheists celebrating his birthday, he's like, a cool guy or something

[@Michael_the_Drunkard]

No, Jesus was neither a laissez faire hippie, nor did he disbelieve in his own divinity.

[@galarstar052]

@@Michael_the_Drunkard he'd have to be a giant asshole to get pissed at people who are celebrating his birthday just cause they think he wasn't god.

[@dragofx_5472]

@@galarstar052 you'd need to prove celebrating your birthday was a common custom 2000 years ago to begin with

[@Neion8]

@@Michael_the_Drunkard Eh, Athiests and the Christian god have one thing in common; neither believe they were created by an entity beyond their comprehension.

[@connorschultz380]

@@Neion8 you technically can't prove that

[@timber9468]

gotta love it when everyone is yelling at each other and then harry comes out of nowhere and informs everyone what today's dinner shall be

[@VJ2099]

“I went to Christian school, that’s why I’m an atheist” As a Christian, that is… *…completely understandable. Have a nice day*

[@russiasgreatestspinmachine4096]

I'll take a shot and guess that her parents are probably atheists too

[@VJ2099]

If her parents are atheists, why would they send her to a Christian school? Makes no sense.

[@Justacuriouslady]

@@VJ2099 in a sense, where I come from Christian schools have the best educational facilities thus the reason why regardless of whether or not you're Christian your parents still enroll you there cuz the education is good

[@VJ2099]

@Arum ah well I suppose that’s good reason if the education really is that good.

[@AdventurerOfOblivion]

For real. I was forced to attend just regular Sunday church and I now hate churches as well as other who loudly proclaim themselves to be "christians". The crackhead chef who never thinks about religion at a rundown Wafflehouse has a better understanding of how not to be a shit person. Seriously. Biggest argument against religion is any sort of establishment for them. It's not even funny how true it is.

[@bug931]

So looking forward to this. Personally I think atheists are allowed to celebrate Christmas the same as anyone else regardless of faith. Hell, actual Christians/Catholics/etc don’t celebrate their own holiday in a religious way most of the time, it’s just an excuse to do mainstream Christmas stuff

[@dementor3333]

Yeah I'm from India where most people are hindus and even they usually celebrate Christmas. It's just seen as a fun holiday where you can get together with your friends and family and just chill out

[@ruileite4579]

I'm an agnostic and I celebrate Christmas because I like being with my family and stuff, I don't exactly associate it with religion, just with a (mostly) good time

[@awcy6902]

@@dementor3333 and Japan (I am not japanese tho) celebrates it too Like heck whoever celebrates Christmas religiously is the first one I meet

[@lasislasfilipinas114]

Catholics are Christian where does the distinction of Catholic and Christian being different

[@heretible]

@@lasislasfilipinas114 I think "Christian" is a blanket term used to describe "jesus followers" whereas a Catholic is a jesus follower who respects the pope

[@daxe4624]

Honestly, everyone in this argument is too cynical. The atheists were set on invalidating Christmas as a Christian celebration by exposing its pagan roots, rather than explain why celebrating Christmas is overall a positive and worthwhile experience for them. Yes, they touched on the food and the gifts and family gatherings, but it was rarely the focus of their argument. It was less about justifying themselves and more about tearing the others down. As for Gringo, I respect his resolve, but he doesn't seem quite as open-minded as he says. His monologue about the meaning of Christmas is powerful in the sense that it shows the dark side of its commercialization, but the only aspect of the holiday that is lost on non-believers is celebrating the birth of Christ. He mentions that it is "also a time to reunite with family, and celebrate human kindness" as though commercializing killed this aspect. Gifts can be a celebration of human kindness. They can be symbolic of love and appreciation. Yet Gringo thinks that people who "aren't committed to its Christian roots" need to sit out, and that the true Christmas spirit is something that can only be revived by Christians. This does not spread joy; it simply tightens the circle and reduces the exposure of Christian values to the non-believers. Is it not the mission of Christianity to spread the word? Why must someone be committed in order to see and feel its importance? This was such a weird pattern to Gringo's argument because other things he says, like his statement at the end of the Harry Turkey/Goose argument, show an astute awareness to all of the ways Christmas has grown to be a welcoming and comfortable holiday to everyone. I think Seraphina frustrated me most of all. Oddly enough, my beliefs align most closely with hers, but her reasoning was frustratingly presumptuous at times. It would be arrogant to claim that I can understand or agree with the philosophy of a religion or a celebration but atheists can't. It is even more arrogant to make the statement that they deny the conversation of moral/spiritual/philosophical intersections between religions even exists. It paints this inherently negative picture of atheists as contrarians who refuse to have a discussion. For most, if not all atheists, they came to their conclusion as a result of these conversations, but that does not mean they do not respect other religions. I suppose you could introduce some definition of atheism that does mean that, but the fact that its very definition is not universal makes any absolute statement about atheists, *especially* when it calls their character into question, distasteful and deliberately exclusionary. All of that mess aside, this was still an entertaining debate. It's an interesting conversation and as always, a hilarious disaster to watch. I always look forward to seeing intelligent people piss each other off in the most galaxy-brained ways possible

[@lozm4835]

I would certainly agree that everyone is too cyncial, and honestly, a lot of this is just them them kind of being asses to each other too. Who genuinely gives a shit as to if someone personally celebrates Christmas, or why Christmas exists or happens to be at a certain date.

[@dnbedwars]

i agree, the past is in the past, it matters what is going on in the future. They are talking about things are are morally unethical, like converting sentient beings to a religion and such, even though that was in the past. I believe that people should be given freedom to either join or leave a religion, but it s ther family and unfair traditons that force them into a religion, whether they like it or not. Religion is never good, but the same can be said for atheism and such. So this argument is therefore unethical and bullshit.

[@lozm4835]

@@dnbedwars I would say that it's not that religion or aethism are good or evil, it's trying to force somebody else to conform to your worldview for no reason other than glorified tribalism. Religion just has a head start because it was the standard for so long. And this argument reeks of both sides trying to do just that.

[@dnbedwars]

@@lozm4835 yeah

[@rellort4362]

straight up it got me so annoyed

[@Dadvent]

I’m already looking forward to the sequel, “Should Atheists celebrate Mardi Gras?”

[@imanijones54]

@Tom Ffrench Nah, Lent is for both us Protestants and Catholics.

[@yannzandstra8670]

the trilogie with easter next ?

[@naruspheal1831]

I mean do any of them even have Mardi Gras

[@ghostypancake6868]

That's a debate I could get behind lmao

[@mushmush4980]

For the love of God, never mention Mardi Gras

[@recarsion]

"As an atheist you shouldn't celebrate the birth of Christ." That's the neat part, I don't. It's just a nice time to get together with family, have a nice dinner and chill plus everyone needs a break from the rush of the usual workdays. That's literally all there is to it.

[@theantagonist801]

And then everyone breaks into fighting! No Holiday dinner is complete without at least one argument, imo.

[@indeepjable]

exactly, also my family took thanksgiving, made it about the family, and duplicated it so we get two thanksgivings (one in july]

[@JNJNRobin1337]

hey look it me

[@lliw4945]

Then why don't atheists choose to do this on a different day instead of choosing Christ-Mass of all the times? Just make a different time or holiday when you do it, don't start doing it on Christ-Mass because that means you don't believe in Christ himself yet still celebrate with your family on the day his birth is celebrated. It's just weird Christ-Mass is obviously a religious holiday and you celebrating your family during a religious holiday is completely dividing what Christ-Mass even is it's like celebrating 2 different holidays with people who have clashing ideals on the same day. Just change the day Edit: If you're not Christian and want to celebrate Christmas for religious purposes or Christian purpose it's totally fine to celebrate that on the same day as other Christians Same goes for if you're Christian and want to celebrate the "atheist Christmas" for non religious purposes you are free to go. They are just celebrating 2 different things it's not that one is only for Christians one only for Atheist.

[@JNJNRobin1337]

i am going to celebrate every religious holiday at the same time despite being technically atheist for i wanna see what happens when i do it on april 20th

[@Sopran0livia]

Y’know as a Catholic, here’s how I’ve come to understand Christmas in the modern sense: -There’s basically two versions of Christmas now: The religious version and a more secular, commercialized version -The only thing that really sets them apart is whether or not you participate in activities pertaining to celebrating Jesus’ birth (Mass, Nativities, Advent candles, etc) -They’re both still about being able to spend time with the ones you love to contrast a cold and dark month -Therefore I have literally no issue if people outside of the religion celebrating the non-religious version of Christmas, in fact I encourage it because it’s literally just a great celebration to get together with people and have fun to contrast the winter outside -it literally just makes people happy which is all I could ask for really. People should be allowed to celebrate and have fun! -it wouldn’t make sense if an atheist went out of their way to celebrated the more religious version of the holiday but I don’t really see anyone doing that. Atheists just celebrate Christmas because it’s a good time. -I can agree with Gringo and Harry in the fact that Christmas has honestly become far too commercialized, and it’s all out of hand. I think that’s why the religious version and the more non religious version are so separate in my mind. Obviously in general things are a bit more nuanced than what I said, but in the simplest of terms that’s what I see Christmas as.

[@theflatsixth]

I completely agree. I think that people should celebrate the Christmas they want to celebrate. I think the conflict stems from two groups of people fighting for one version of a holiday

[@averytubestudios]

As a Christian, I say that you can celebrate Christmas if you’re an Atheist. The holiday in my eyes is less about celebrating the birth of Jesus and more about joy and spreading happiness to others. Especially in 2021 now that the holiday’s been commercialized to hell and back.

[@kikikillian1208]

As an atheist and christian, I won't explain that in detail now (did so on my own comment), I agree

[@connorschultz380]

@@kikikillian1208 there a multiple type pokemon joke in there somewhere

[@kikikillian1208]

@@connorschultz380 Uh if so, then it did go over my head xD

[@connorschultz380]

@@kikikillian1208 well sure -grass and fire- is like an atheist and Christian type pokemon right?

[@radiokunio3738]

Christmas was never a Christian holiday in the first place, it started as Saturnalia and later became appropriated as Christ's birth. If Atheists can't celebrate Christmas then Christians can't too.

[@jumnyum]

Gringo isn’t the best debater, but he’s insanely respectful and willing to take notes, learn lessons, and keep the debate fresh. Wouldn’t have anyone else get their ass handed to them in a debate but him :) lol

[@sentientviolin7802]

Agreed.

[@willo90li]

weirdly i think that's why I love gringo so much lol My man can get beat down easily but he always takes it like a champ!

[@taodivinity1556]

Gringo is basically the good hearted main character surrounded by calculating villains.

[@Beatumpop]

I like Gringo. All my homies like Gringo.

[@brachialtick6539]

@@taodivinity1556 i mean, he wants tp gatekeep atheist

[@donavanroldan5536]

Bro I swear Harry appears and the mood in the room changes he’s like a supervillain

[@jayBBvid95]

all caps when you spell the man name

[@GregoryMom]

If you saw how The Speech was described, you’d know He is

[@thestatusjoe9949]

I’m agnostic and I celebrate Christmas because the traditions make it feel special and add a layer of fun and community over a common family reunion. I like the aesthetics, I like the atmosphere, I like the food, I like the music, and I like the traditional events. Why keep people from doing what they enjoy, as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone?

[@thestatusjoe9949]

@Landon The music is definitely annoying any other time of the year, but during the winter season I love it

[@popojelly1895]

@Landon The music is a trigger for the brain to go into Christmas mode, some sort of hypnosis even

[@theraymunator]

Gotta love how when everyone just started shitting on each other in the chat, Harry just posted his dinner like nothing happened. He must really be a fun guy to hang around with, take good care of him, FC

[@richardmillhousenixon]

"I don't believe in your child's future but you can bet your arse I'll still celebrate his birthday" is such an unbelievably based line that it could have only come from the Bowl himself

[@the_furf_of_july4652]

Personally think anyone should be able to celebrate whatever they want and not need to give a shit about how hypocritical or nonsensical it is. A party’s a party, even a barely existent reason to be happy is better and more logical than keeping yourself miserable for no reason because someone thinks you’re not religious enough to have fun because the date happens to be 12/25

[@匚尺丂乇-k3v]

Is it ok to make aesthetics for religions? Like I want to see Buddhist statues mixed up in a Christian shrine and the statues of the deities of the Greeks in the background. Or just a collection of religions in one shrine

[@lunkee6972]

@@匚尺丂乇-k3v many religions specifically prohibit the worship of idols (statues) or “false” gods, so yeah that wouldn’t be ok. You’ll need to research each religion before doing that sort of thing to be respectful of its culture. For example, Buddha is a false god in Christianity so putting that on a Christian shrine is EXTREMELY offensive. It’s basically saying that you don’t care enough about the religion to understand it’s basic tenants.

[@匚尺丂乇-k3v]

@@lunkee6972 what if I know what I'm doing and still put them together

[@danielutriabrooks477]

@@匚尺丂乇-k3v Well, the church attendees would likely behave like the bizantines in 726, or like the belgians in mid-1500s. Because for the christian religions at least is important not to fall into idolotry (venerating the image itself instead of the one being represented), as that's a sin and all of that

[@fissionphoenix4995]

@@匚尺丂乇-k3v that's called being a heathen and I fully approve because I too am a heretic.

[@sdeaer]

It's funny how harry just send his dinner while everyone is chaotically arguing

[@quedtion_marks_kirby_modding]

It was a nice dinner too.

[@RaxusXeronos]

@@quedtion_marks_kirby_modding seeing him do the same at the end of another video instead of responding after getting backed into a corner makes me think it's like a reoccurring thing with him lol.

[@anubis7457]

@@RaxusXeronos He wasn't really backed into a corner, if you're talking about the ethics debate. He was just asked if he had a soul and Harry posted a picture of his dinner.

[@HarrisonBuck720]

Man, the ending was the best. Everyone roasting each other and Harry showing his dinner. Also, my view on Christmas is that everyone can celebrate

[@tyriquecoleman3794]

I feel like this is a microcosm of humanity. That fuckfest was almost artistic in its progression to the breaking point where everyone devolved into petty insults (and Harry just...fooding). Sometimes I love that the internet can let me witness things like this.

[@blupengu2]

I can kinda respect Gringo's slight changes to his argument as he realizes the errors in his arguments, but I still got upset with him because... Goblin just said he was gonna go celebrate Christmas with the Family, then Gringo comes in, starting drama and going "You're Atheist, therefore you can't celebrate Christmas". This all could've been avoided if Gringo were just a bit more respectful and instead just said "Hey, aren't you Atheist? Why do you celebrate it?" and then respectfully disagreed with them. Good video anyways, even if it was dramatic as hell, still entertaining as always.

[@abbysun9333]

Guess gringo wanted to SPICE things up for the holidays.

[@angel_of_rust]

atheist hands typed this

[@FacuA0]

Gringo: *has an open mind* Also Gringo: Atheists can't celebrate Christmas.

[@awPrzemek]

????? That's exactly how he started it. Literally "You are atheist, why do you celebrate Christmas?"

[@goldenwarrior1186]

@@awPrzemek But he was more rude

[@lisamackilligan2589]

I STARTED LAUGHING LIKE A DAMN MANIAC WHEN HARRY STARTED TALKING ABOUT HIS DINNER

[@LimeyTherapist]

honestly I just want to see more of Harry's "for tonight's dinner I made" shit looks delicious every time

[@randinatorgames1415]

And its always out of the blue too. No context, completely unrelated to the conversation, just a picture of his dish and a full description of what he made. Most random shit I've seen and I'm *HERE* for it

[@segalanicolas5608]

There are other pics of his dinner ?? Where ? I need them.

[@nummurrow6360]

@@segalanicolas5608 there's one at the very end of the debate "should science be morally ethical?"

[@marshbowicorn]

I just find it hilarious how much Gringo used “culture changes” and “we can adopt traditions” as an excuse for why Christians can celebrate Christmas, while simultaneously being the one to bash on and start the argument “Atheists shouldn’t celebrate Christmas”. Like does he not hear how that sounds? Does he not realize that *exact* same excuse can apply to atheists? And I find it even funnier that no one called him out because that being his main argument while trying to tell the others that they shouldn’t celebrate something not directly tied to them is just ridiculous to me.

[@marshbowicorn]

And lost the heart because I edited a grammar mistake lol

[@lliw4945]

You see how christians made a whole new holiday while adopting traditions from the pagans instead of just celebrating something different on the holiday with the same name. Now if you're an atheist and just want to spend time with you're family on Christmas and not celebrate the religious things there should be another holiday for Atheists kind of like Christmas. Why? Christmas is a religious holiday so people celebrating it but not celebrating specific parts of it is a lot like celebrating a completely different holiday on the same day as Christmas and labeling it Christmas. Instead of doing that we should just make 2 different holidays without the same name and on different days on for each thing.

[@petitesayo4542]

Yup, this frustrated me too.

[@petitesayo4542]

@@lliw4945 I fail to understand how you could read their comment, then post this. They litterally contradicted everything you said here.

[@lliw4945]

@@petitesayo4542 They literally didn't, maybe try reading the first sentence I said again.

[@eastonfields]

Harry is simply the best, he's got a pretty forward view on everything and tells it with confidence

[@player1playforfun]

As an Orthodox Christian, I'm not taking sides, cause both parties are wrong.

[@ophis181]

Hello, fellow Orthodox ! Which patriarchate are you affiliated to ?

[@drakerapper8050]

@@ophis181 none. He is his own patriarchate

[@Tower_Swagman]

Based sigma orthodox

[@zacharymarino8926]

how exactly can both sides be wrong about whether athiests can celebrate christsmas? can they or can they not?

[@kingacrisius]

@@zacharymarino8926 They don't believe Christmas should be celebrated at all

[@malharmazumdar3731]

My entire family is hindu, and everyone we know still celebrates Christmas because it's fun and presents weee

[@TheJollySoviet]

This is just a real christmas dinner, complete with arguing over religious politics, insults being thrown left and right, people picking sides, and all of it's wrapped up in a neat christmas bow. Harry even made food! However it would be remiss of me if I didn't chime in. Christmas-- for me-- has never been about religion. Sure, it's inherently christian, but that's only because I've lived in America for so long and the US is based upon christian roots: "in god we trust". That doesn't mean we all practice the religious beliefs and traditions. However that doesn't mean I hate religion alltogether either. I can understand that Christianity is simultaneously a source of hope and morality, whilst also a source of bigotry and hate. The majority of people I know practice mostly inclusive/accepting beliefs, and so (for the most part) it's never a problem. Of course, Christmas includes the whole family so one spark lights the inferno. Now, as to whether or not aetheists should celebrate Christmas, like I said earlier Christmas is mainly celebrated as a societal tradition rather than a religious one in my experience. I mean, really, it's not like most can say they firmly believe in the beliefs that lie within the roots of all or even most holidays. It doesn't matter because religion isn't the point of our celebration. We're there because we want to spend time together and the gifts and decorations and food and music are all just toppings on an already enjoyable cake. They're not burning crosses or ripping up a bible, they're simply enjoying time spent with family. To stop people from having having an excuse to hang out with family because they don't approve of the church, is rediculous And it really is an excuse. As family grows older, they grow apart and become busy with their own lives. I, like many people I know, spend very little time with my family. That's not to say I don't like them, just that there's never really a good time. Christmas is not a religious holiday for us, it's a coordination. Because otherwise we would just never hang out. It's not more or less valuable than any other time, we just choose to put more effort into it than other days because it just the day we have to spend together. Everyone was so mean to eachother in the end though, the insults that get thrown around when this group gets heated are insane. It's fun to watch but I would hate to be in the middle of virtual plates and glasses being thrown around lol.

[@Heftyk]

I love how everyone after giving their arguments about Christmas, and how we should celebrate it, it's then thrown all out of the window just to trash talks each other in the last minute of the video, and Harry appearing just to mention what he made of dinner. Very noticiable that you guys are good pals who can both talk in a serious manner (with some not-serious commentary from time to time) and do the opposite in the matter of seconds, what a lovely group of people are everyone in this channel.

[@HigaaraEnd]

That's what friends are for

[@ericclayton9628]

The response to "that sounds like a threat" with "hahaha" and her pose is perfect

[@the_door_opener2622]

I see no issue with nonbelievers celebrating Christmas. The only time I’ve ever gotten annoyed was when I met a dude who thought that the religious aspects of the holiday should be stripped away completely, like … I get that he wasn’t a Christian, but couldn’t he have had just a passing respect for the religion the holiday is named after? Enough not to be rude? But nah, it’s really only be weird for an atheist to celebrate Christmas if they wanted to do the worship in church. That would be weird just because, like, why would they do that? They can just skip the religious aspect of the holiday and skip to the nonreligious part, it’s no issue at all, imo.

[@Briskeeen]

Oh man, this is gonna a fun one. I'm an atheist, but my family is mostly Christian. We don't really celebrate the whole birth of Jesus, more so the spirit of the holiday. You know: family, goodwill towards others, free stuff, etc. We could probably do that with any of the other December holidays, but Christmas is the most mainstream and we generally prefer the atmosphere of Christmas to something like Hanukah.

[@PositiveLycan]

Oh, same! Interesting to see another in a similar situation.

[@the_katss]

Me too!

[@UsingGorillaLogic]

This looks like it will be a wash before it even begins. I can't imagine a good argument against letting anyone celebrate christmas.

[@dragonivy7597]

Europeans can't celebrate the fourth of July or Thanksgiving, that's an American holiday. Technically the same could be said for Christmas

[@magmaslasher7604]

@@dragonivy7597 I'm not American, but if Europeans want to participate in Canada Day, or celebrate Thanksgiving in October, I'm not gonna tell them they can't celebrate a fucking holiday.

[@thehelpfulshadow919]

@@dragonivy7597 I mean Europeans won't celebrate the 4th of July because that is a celebration of independence from them. I would find it rather odd if Britain decided to celebrate their loss to the US

[@KelltheTitan]

@@thehelpfulshadow919 I've seen Germans getting into the 4th of July spirit and I don't see any issue with it. Not sure what got them so hyped for it, but if someone wants to dress in the colors of the American flag and blast fireworks I'm not gonna say they shouldn't.

[@mintmont7669]

On a similar note to those not celebrating Christmas but still utilizing that time to celebrate/get together with family and loved ones, I feel note should be made that for a lot of people, whatever day your local culture celebrates "Christmas" is potentially the only day in the season that's guaranteed to be free of work obligations. I, personally, can't take my holiday off 'cause it's 12 days and I work a service industry job that would straight up let me go if I requested that time off. So, I just celebrate on the "holiday" date that I get off. :/

[@RazorToaster]

Harry's foodposting surpasses all topics, arguments, discussions, conversations, debates, fights, active server fire, nuclear reactor meltdown, attacks, human rights violations, and/or MI6 raids of his presumably well defended bond villain lair. I'm assuming he has a lair because of how "the speech"™ was described.

[@10thletter40]

"Why should I celebrate something I could do any day" Well, you can do almost anything any day... Thanksgiving, St. Patrick's Day, Valentine's Day... Worldwide holidays even Hanukkah, Kwanza, fudge you could celebrate International Pancake Day which may or may not exist. It is about whether you ACTUALLY do it any day, but you aren't forced to participate

[@Alonzi.]

Pancake day does exist it’s the end of feb, we celebrate it every year

[@flatfish9049]

My family used to do a thanksgiving in July actually. Not for any specific reason besides that it was just a good excuse to have a festive feast and get with family and friends.

[@notoriousgoblin83]

It is not patty's day. The short form of Patrick is Paddy, not patty. Please, please stop.

[@notoriousgoblin83]

@@Alonzi. shrove Tuesday yeah.

[@10thletter40]

@@notoriousgoblin83 If Imma be honest, I don't really care. If you want to correct kindly do that, but to be offended over what wasn't even the topic is kinda foolish

[@theartenthusiast1932]

Harry with his dinner at the end when everyone started insulting each other was peak Harry. And damn, I somewhat agree with Gringo in this one, for the true meaning of Christmas has been twisted, but I think that Em is also right in wanting an excuse to be with their families due to the exact same reasons Gringo argued against celebrating paganism: It is the meaning NOW that counts, and nowadays christmas is much more about spreading love and kindness towards others. That said, I think that the smart solution here is for religious people to simply ignore the capitalistic values of christmas and let atheists do whatever they want. But then again, I'm only just an advanced mammal, not a perfect one, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[@nekoluxuria7721]

there's the issue that christmas isn't exclusively a religious holiday now. so gringo's argument of celebrating now falls a bit short considering that it's not exclusively religious. since it also excuses atheists into being able to celebrate christmas.

[@makuru.42]

I love harry, the only thing stoping him from genociding whoever is cold hardest pragmatism.

[@drag0nerd]

While it's impossible to ignore how much Christmas is utilized as a money-making season, you can still celebrate it. Even if it's associated with gift-giving and family time more than anything else, nowadays, it's a lot more widespread and less set in stone, and there's nothing that can really be done to change that. I agree with Linus (from "A Charlie Brown Christmas): You don't have to let the commercialism bother you if you want a different Christmas. No one (except the industry) is asking you to constantly indulge in capitalism.

[@uwuowo4856]

Mhm

[@coldhearted765]

There is such an emphasis on placing societal expectations as negative that I feel like it waters down their points-us “mammals”, as you put it, are inherently social beings who have a base of emotional responses based upon what society/others think. It’s normal. Decrying Christmas entirely for viewing this evolutionary response as negative seems unnecessary. What one may do is like what many social groups who disagree to some level with societal expectations is simple-recreate the holiday and amend new expectations according to your group’s desires. It’s what many families do. The ending was priceless, though. Love this video.

[@kaleoarnold3709]

Honestly, I was way more interested in the “flexibility of belief” part more than if atheist can celebrate Christmas. As a Christian myself, feel free to celebrate it! Wether you believe in him or not, we were all created by God and are loved by him equally, and even if your just there to see family, I’m sure he’d be happy with that. Just don’t start shit about religion, talk about something more passive, like politics :)

[@harrymillar4193]

My opinions (because people care): - I feel like Gringo didn’t have the confidence to back up the points he made - all very good points but he was being a bit flimsy - Em just liked picking apart very minor word choices and acting like she derailed the whole argument; didn’t help either side of the debate - Sera was the most reasonable I believe, keeping everything balanced and was the only one with a truly open mind… but like with most debates, when you admit you were wrong, everyone just jumps on you - Bowl and Harry were funny as always - No one brought up how Christmas is actually integral to the economy - I’m a Christian and I believe that everyone has the right to enjoy Christmas :) Merry Christmas / Happy Holidays to everyone! P.S. Seriously, where do I join one of these debate servers? (don’t give me the link to your private one, I’m not someone that is trying to invade your videos, I just like debating/arguing) XD

[@10thletter40]

I agreed much myself. I disagree with Gringo wholeheartedly but Em's points seemed rather cheap and somewhat shooting her own argument in the foot.. Seraphina was the one I supported most despite not totally agreeing with, they seemed most balanced

[@alexie832]

I want to join just to see the funny conversation and to see what funny spicy phrases Bowl will say.

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

Eh...Sera did occasionnally also personnally insult when she didn't know what else to say.

[@10thletter40]

@@legrandliseurtri7495 insult back*

[@abbysun9333]

@@legrandliseurtri7495 I mean at the end it was a free for all trash talk segment I don’t think that really counts LOL

[@nightknight5357]

Gringo got destroyed. Every point basically. That just hurt to watch him die like that

[@No_Sleepee]

"Why do you know so much if you're a non-believer?" because that's how every Atheist is. When people ask why you don't like/support something, they continue to pester you to holy hell of WHY and you either dig deep and strike right at the core from your own understanding of it, or you half-ass it and give a weak response which leads further to people saying "Oh come on just give it a try!" I speak from personal experience

[@iantaakalla8180]

I guess because if your default is religion, questioning it to the point of letting go of it altogether requires the effort to invalidate your religion by knowing its sordid past.

[@Owch-]

I absolutely love how each character in this video is talking about Christmas and religion while touching different aspects of it and having varying opinions with good arguments and counter arguments. I can get only so much serotonin!

[@capt.raptor4650]

that escalated so quickly _what an accurate representation of a Christmas dinner when politics enter the conversation!_

[@i_will_not_elaborate]

I should throw this out there that Japan celebrates Christmas but not for Christianity or family (some do of course) but as a holiday for couples-- it's like a 3rd Valentine's for them-- and their Christmas food of choice is KFC. I am NOT kidding!

[@MisterFael]

You made me remember this one video by Dogen where he talks about X-mas in Japan kzbin.info/www/bejne/n6nTmmOYo6ljorM

[@smekchy]

Japan's x-mas is really a showcase what hardcore marketing looks like. I like it it is so cute, but damn marketing be so damn powerful

[@i_will_not_elaborate]

@@smekchy remember what Mr. Krabs said: "The money is always right!"

[@smekchy]

@@i_will_not_elaborate always

[@alexie832]

Japan's Christmas also included not one but 7 "Santa Clauses", one of them is a goddess. They even have their own Krampus for New Year's Day called the namahage.

[@Keroroartist]

I like how FC wasn’t even a part of the argument until halfway through when he came in to give his 2 cents AFTER being pinged. legend

[@KitKat-sv9qp]

Not only does Japan, a very not Christian region, celebrate it, but it also completely stripped it's religious undertones lol As well as the fact that capitalism has milked the shit out of it- I'd say by this point ANYONE can celebrate Christmas lmfaoooo Can't wait to see this one 😳

[@alanlabuda7166]

Bruh dont bring another debate in here. Skip the capitalism part buddy.

[@KitKat-sv9qp]

@@alanlabuda7166 LOL u right

[@cl0p38]

Can't have Christmas in Japan without dressing the KFC guy as Santa

[@michaelbilotta1567]

@@alanlabuda7166 He never said anything bad about it specifically, what he said is just an undeniable fact. Supporting capitalism or not is a totally different argument.

[@The_Evening_Sun]

@@cl0p38 the fact that KFC managed to basically get themselves almost completely associated with Christmas in Japan will never not be funny to me

[@alexanderflemming6788]

Haven't watched the video in full yet but here is my opinion: Everyone should be able to celebrate christmas but we should be taught in schools the meaning of it and the cultural impact it has had on our society as well as what many of the traditions of Christmas come from such as giving presents is done because saint Nicholas (santa claus) gave out presents to kids at Christmas.

[@mewo1282]

I like how in the end everyone is arguing and Harry just comes up and presents a dish

[@ianlilley2577]

Hmm as a Catholic I suppose its fine. My issue is less with atheists celebrating Christmas and more with atheists demanding it be secular, i know several athiests in my family and life who get pissed and enraged if i insist on bringing my religion into Christmas, even tho said faith is why it exists... Another issue I have is the commercialization of Christmas which almost feels like a mockery of the holiday considering Christ was born in a barn and didnt look kindly on things like greed. So while I think its fine. I at the same time wish it would die off. Not out of hatred or the view of athiests celebrating Christmas as bad. But more so that the holiday becomes less commercialized. Which for me is my biggest issue with Christmas and if anything makes me want to celebrate it in a more religious manner so as to combat Commercialization

[@Michael_the_Drunkard]

I fully agree with you, but it shouldn't die off. Atheists and other non-believers should change its name and disassociate it from actual Christian christmas by maybe celebrating it on another day. For example in Germany it is celebrated on 24 December and it is just like the consumerist secular christmas.

[@Neion8]

True, imprinting one's own beliefs onto another's religious festivals for the sake of erasing what they hold sacred is pretty bad. So, what day do you propose Christmas and Easter are rescheduled to?

[@ianlilley2577]

@@Neion8 i propose secular christmas be made a general weeklong holiday with no mention of Christmas

[@milkbrain429]

@@Michael_the_Drunkard I'm glad that even among all the redditors with the default 'let people enjoy things' mindset there's still some with solid convictions.

[@Tamamo-no-Bae]

People have different standards. Let's say you're visiting an atheist family, who considers it secular...In that case respect it being secular and do not bring anything religious into it. Likewise if they visit your place and you see it as a religious thing, they will have to bite the bullet, be quiet and listen to the religious stuff. It's a matter of respecting your host. Now if either side forced the other into participating into something they did not want to...Forexample atheists being forced to participate in bible reading, that's wrong.

[@alfa563]

Personally, the conversation ended at around 15:51 where Em talked about how Christmas giving people the availability to visit their families. As much as we hate to agree, meeting our families during normal days are rare, especially if you have a job that requires you to work even in holidays. Christmas gives you that chance to meet your families since workplaces are more likely to accept your day offs or are even closed during the holiday seasons. To Atheists, this gives them a chance to visit their families, Christmas food and festivities are just an added bonus for meeting them. In the end, Christmas is about the gathering of your loved ones, to celebrate the final days before the New Year's and truly, that is the Christmas Spirit.

[@pablosaavedra1435]

You guys are so hardcore about everything I love it

[@tfobla]

your channel makes me wonder where you all met each other. origin story video????

[@frenchbaguetteintelligence]

We met during the war.

[@kalystagutierrez1607]

Oh my god, the low shots everyone was throwing at the end was absolutely magnificent! Seeing the infighting really brought a tear to my eye, a true Christmas miracle!

[@Ratzz_z]

DId Gringo really just say "Culture is influential. It's meant to be shared" while gatekeeping christmas from atheists?

[@frenchbaguetteintelligence]

Accentuating Em’s point about hypocrisy.

[@stupidityofme7248]

As an atheist myself, I think celebrating Christmas is fine even if you're not Christian. Like everyone is saying, it's not really about the birth of jesus anymore and it's been commerciallized to hell n back. Its practically unavoidable to hear or see it now.

[@Michael_the_Drunkard]

Then, it's just not Christmas.

[@k.umquat8604]

@@Michael_the_Drunkard Well you're right,it's no longer Christmas.It's New Year's Eve.

[@killermetalwolf2843]

I think it’s fine celebrating Christmas because you get free stuff and who doesn’t like free stuff?

[@GalaxyDogenut]

@@killermetalwolf2843 yeah.

[@heyitsmeskylar6564]

ALL THE ARGUEMENTS JUST BROKE DOWN INTO BELITTLING EACH OTHER AT THE END LIKE DAMN

[@robinrehlinghaus1944]

1.) I have to say I really agree with Seraphina on this one. I respect Gringo for his faith and honesty, Harry for his rationality (and his cooking), Bowl for being Bowl and you for posting this. But I think Em's logic was kinda flawed in many points. 2.) You inspired me to learn French. Joyeux noel to you, advanced mammal, you.

[@chaonpod]

I love how the ending is just Faux's Christmas being held in the server. Everyone arguing amongst themselves while Harry plates himself up a nice meal.

[@redmondvalentine2983]

I've had this discussion with my extended family multiple times and every single time they somehow come up with a different arguments on how all non christians are not allowed to celebrate Christmas in any way. Kinda impressive, really.

[@Michael_the_Drunkard]

Based parents

[@connorschultz380]

I guess to give my full opinion, The only argument to not celebrating Christmas as a non Christmas that isn't just steeped in gate keeping is "isn't that kinda silly? Celebrating a religions holiday well your not part of that religion?" But there's so much Christmas *is* today besides a Christian holiday that I don't think anyone would even think to say that. Besides that I also find "denying" that Christmas is a Christian holiday is strange too, it certainly still is to many people, and is treated as such, even if it's many other things to other people as well

[@matabishippuden6965]

My opinion is that it's in the name really. Nothing more nothing less

[@jerichooblivion5406]

I appreciate the fact that the only time there was Christmas music was when everything devolved into a yelling match. Angrily screaming at your friends and family. Isn't this what Christmas is all about?

[@defaultdance4727]

The line "I went to a Christian school. That's why I'm an atheist" made me laugh. Great videos, man.

[@Junebuuuuugggg]

I'm agnostic. I LOVE Christmas because of childhood memories, and the whole vibe it has. But I hate the religious aspect. I don't care if it's a religious holiday, that's not what it is to me. And that's because of religious trauma. That's why me and my best friend, who also has religious trauma, have started calling it giftmas, to take the Christ out of Christmas. Is the holiday mostly a marketing tactic and money-grab season now? Yes. Has it become corny and lost meaning for a lot of people? Absolutely. But can it still be enjoyed by anyone and everyone? You bet. I don't care what your reasons are, wether it be religious beliefs or simply because you like the atmosphere (like me), you can celebrate Christmas. Or in my case, giftmas.

[@pamichayo]

The ending really captivated that Christmas spirit. Harry’s food looked tasty too.

[@jimmykahl2224]

Hmmmmm. I would say yes, if they want to. Christmas for many has lost its religious aspects and has become arguably secular. It's a bit like Thanksgiving I guess? Where the holiday's greater meaning has generally been lost.

[@jimmykahl2224]

There has even been some USA supreme court cases that declared a bunch of common Christmas symbols (ie Christmas trees) to be secular. There was even a case that determined that actually religious symbols and traditions were situationally secular as well, if they were presented in a secular nature.

[@jimmykahl2224]

The cases were Lemon v Kurtzman and Lynch v Donnelly

[@yourmum69_420]

Saturnalia ftw

[@Sarawarawara-]

I feel like Christmas has moved away from religion to a lot of people, for example children: at my age Christmas Is just playing In the snow, getting to do fun related activities In school, writing letters to Santa, giving/receiving Christmas cards and being excited over toys. It’s very hard not to celebrate Christmas at this point because It’s everywhere. My parents are Hindu and only celebrate Christmas because I enjoy It as my favourite holiday, so It’s solely for my happiness. The thing Is though Christmas Is such a comforting vibe (for lack of a better word), which makes If hard not to celebrate. Especially when you live In somewhere like England and Spain Is even worse!

[@KairiYajuu]

I think the fact that the US has turned Christmas into being about politics and proving how AmErIcAn Christmas is is what’s completely ‘ruined’ it. (more like ‘changed’ tbh) My immediate family (and I) is super Catholic and my extended family are nearly all devoted Protestants of some kind, so our celebration of Christmas is and has always been about Christianity. But I’m in America and I can tell you straight up that my family is an anomaly in that regard. So many people have Christmas traditions without believing in Christianity and, to be honest, that’s a perfect example of culture being shared. The family across the street buying a Christmas tree and a Grinch light up balloon for their yard while not believing in Jesus does not stop my family from going to the midnight mass on Christmas Eve. If people are borrowing traditions and symbols that aren’t actually tied that directly to or distorting the Christian origin then let them. Just like we borrowed and appropriated some pagan symbols and dates. There’s a massive difference between the atheist family down the road buying a Christmas tree and sharing gifts versus people using the cross of St. Peter as a satanic symbol because they think simply inverting an image makes it mean the opposite. (I will always be salty about that - My man Simon Peter deserves better. Him demanding to be crucified upside down because he didn’t deserve the same death as Christ is metal af and deserves respect) Someone deciding they want to have a set of candles counting down the weeks to a big celebration because they like the Advent Wreath is not the same as someone wearing a rosary like a fashionable necklace and taking the Eucharist while believing whole heartedly that it’s NOT the body of Christ.

[@motheroftheuniverse6140]

I love how at the end they all just dissolved into meaninglessly insulting eachother

[@VelhoTeste]

Before watching the video, i'd like to say i'm a "pragmatic christmas enjoyer" - i'm an apatheist who doesn't really care whether there is a big guy watching us out there - i do however love what christmas represents on a non-christian basis, the love and charity towards others and how this kind of positive message, christian in origin and cheesy as it may be, resonates with people nonetheless.

[@doggerlander]

It resonates with wallets and greedy children. And my stomach, of course. I don't think anyone actually cares about spreading positivity

[@VelhoTeste]

@@doggerlander Well, it should be the parents and teacher's job to teach children to not be greedy, not a holiday season. Also, many charity events happen during the holidays, so at the very least some people enjoy the spirit of giving.

[@perspicacioussimpleton7288]

Personally, as someone who left the Catholic Church after realizing the many discrepancies between the Bible and the Christians that read it, I find that I only keep to heart the quotes of Jesus in the Bible. The Old Testament, to me, is not canon. The words of the master are his teachings, and bottomline, Jesus was a cool person that I would've loved to meet, and it sucks that a worrying amount of Christians misinterpret his intent/message and use it to justify their hatred. Based on his personality alone, he wouldn't bar others for celebrating something together simply for their religion. He loved everyone one and held them close. He wouldn't have cared about your religion; he would've loved you all the same. I myself, invite my atheist friends during Christmas and we have fun, as Jesus most likely would've encouraged. Edit:PS, recently found your channel through the Black Humor episode, and you have quickly become one of the coolest people I would love to meet. You seem like an incredibly educated and eloquent individual. Thanks for the great content as always!

[@Tamamo-no-Bae]

Look up Zoroastrianism. Jesus's teachings mostly came from that religion. There's some good wisdom in it even if you do not actually believe it.

[@Runesmither]

Harry's meals should be randomly inserted into every video from now on.

[@grey-c8138]

I didn't look at the length of the video before clicking and I really wasn't expecting this discussion to cover so much ground, holy shit

[@finnpom7795]

this degraded from slightly aggressive debate into full blown argument and it only took 20 minutes

[@kikivoorburg]

These are great, I love how nuanced the discussions end up being. I am quite the atheist but I was very much able to relate and often agree with the “other side” here. (“Other side” is far too alienating a term, but I’m not sure what else I could use.) My two cents are as follows: Christmas no longer means what it used to mean (both in terms of its pagan origins and it’s Christian adaptation). It is now 90% just a corporate tactic to sell more stuff (as basically every holiday is). However, whereas Harry concludes it is therefore better to stop celebrating Christmas at all, and Gringo concludes it should be Christianised again - I would argue that Christmas’ meaninglessness gives us the space to make it about whatever we personally choose to celebrate. As was mentioned, I think spending time with family and friends is probably the best starting point (assuming yours are nice, that is). I’d even argue we could rename it to something like “Winter Celebration”. (As Seraphina mentioned, such celebrations are very common across the world.) Then Gringo can have their Christianised Christmas again, and others can just celebrate wintertime in whatever way they feel like! (Or *not* celebrate in Harry’s case.) Maybe by cutting down on the societal norms around Christmas (and creating a generic “Winter Celebration”) we can also reduce the mental health issues and stress that Christmas currently causes in many people. There shouldn’t be any pressure do (or not do) anything during the Holidays.

[@sharkwaffle1582]

Yeah, I can see what you mean. Regarding your second paragraph, there’s a quote delivered by Danny Pudi in Community S2E11, “Abed’s Uncontrollable Christmas,” where he sums it up perfectly: “I get it. The meaning of Christmas is the idea that Christmas has meaning. And it can mean whatever we want.”

[@olorinmagus4479]

I think it’s ridiculous to claim someone “isn’t allowed” to celebrate a holiday. Let people celebrate whatever they damn well please, whenever they please, so long as they aren’t interfering with anything or anyone.

[@beowolf9480]

that's actually a BIG issue I have with their logic because, by extension, that means Atheists just shouldn't celebrate anything because, simply enough, all major holidays have roots in religion, most of them being paganism, hell, they wouldn't even be allowed to celebrate birthdays because those come from paganism too

[@fbp3229]

Loved this video and the premier for it. I've noticed a lot of people asking for public invites to your DC servers. DON'T DO IT. I think what makes these videos so good is the fact that they arise out of casual conversation. If you invite people from this channel to your servers, you risk ruining that casual atmosphere of conversation between friends who know each other.

[@leostales2681]

Agreed

[@frenchbaguetteintelligence]

Yeah, it’s definitely something I’ve kept in mind.

[@anacromacia]

Best thing is to create a different server for the channel and keep the personal one private

[@10thletter40]

@@frenchbaguetteintelligence I think it would be a difficult task, but moderate multiple channels for these people to run into would be the ideal scenario. Thing is, I don't think you will find a group ever so versatile and easily understandable as your own. Immediately off the bat, we know what you stand for. The accuracy of debate Bowl is an intelligent troll. Gringo may not be quite so experienced but he believes in his opinions and fights to the death for them.

[@autisticfantasies]

No one will see this comment and apply it within the context of this video

[@spotsthenpc7796]

Loved the character lore at the end. It seems this guys know each other a lot

[@spudleyspadlim4428]

For today's dinner, I made a chicken breast with crème fraîche and chive-topped fondant potatoes courgettes and white wine sauce.