Should Disc Golf Unionize?

As disc golf continues its transition from niche pastime to professional sport, the question of weather or not a players union is necessary has gotten more and more attention. We wanted to take the time to respond to some of your questions and comments from our last video on this topic and analyze the way collective bargaining works in other sports.
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Our First Video On This Topic: • Do We Need a Disc Golf...
Answers To Your Questions: • Answers to Your Questions
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[@gprang]

Thank you for pointing out the utter inappropriateness of this idea. It's basically a misunderstanding of both disc golf and unions on the part of the "advocates."

[@mscudde2]

Love your channel. Thank you!

[@RGMDG]

Interesting. Time will tell. Hopefully the best interest of the growth of the sport will be the underlying reasons for any changes. Money is not a bad thing for sports but greed does cloud the eyes of some even with good intensions.

[@belizediscgolf]

Imagine not finding transparency from the PDGA...

[@StartGierach]

i am new to the disc golf world, so I am maybe somewhat naive' about certain aspects of the sport especially the "business" aspects of it? My question" whom does everyone involved believe that the players work for? Anywhere you have a Union, the members of the union work for an employer. Do the players that have a sponsorship work for the sponsor? Do they labor for the Pro Tour? If you have a sponsorship ( which I obviously do not ) I would assume you work for the company that is providing you with the sponsorship deal.?? Seeing how the "global Elite" like to get their dirty little paws into just about every industry they can...what would happen if the owners of the disc golf manufacturers decided to band together?

[@codyklinge970]

Once there is more money there will be more governing bodies when it comes to health care, practice areas and so on. I think the revenue sharing is kind of a weird thing to regulate because with most revenue sharing agreements, it has to deal with the team sports and broadcasting agreements which would in turn go to the players after their manufacturer got their cut. I think the revenue sharing is quite a long way off just because of the complexity of it.

[@avoqado89]

I would say not at the moment but not have as much of an anti-union message as some other comments. A union is needed when there's a lot of revenue & not a lot of sharing. But it's also needed for player input to safety & rules. So the disc golfers on tour would probably benefit more with player committiees than a full on union like they have in ball golf. We shouldn't have a bunch of city councils where Brody will argue for 9 bad takes out of 10 (love you Brody). But the sport should be listening to it's pros more. While course design is probably the toughest thing to agree on, standardized tee pads & baskets are a good example of what's needed but might not be here anytime soon without a committiee let alone a union. IMO Tennis is ready for unions & better revenue sharing. Vox came out with a video recently called "Why most tennis players struggle to make a living" & it is pretty ridiculous how it's set up. Way less sponsorships & way more aggressive revenue sharing with the mid-tier athletes. The PDGA doesn't have a large amount of prize money but it seems to be a better revenue sharing split among the mid-tier than tennis. However, tennis players are generally (not always) more wealthy with support from richer parents so breaking even is less important than training & improving. But tennis now is not profitable for many higher-tier players as the Vox video showed. Plus the PDGA has so many disc companies that have formed teams that pay well to several pros which also gets returned when they sell pro series discs & other things that are marketable. Tennis doesn't really have that to the same degree. So it's up to the players up & down the rankings to form together to see if a union would be more beneficial than the status quo. There doesn't seem to be a need for that. It's completely not true that unions now a days are a hinderance. The writers & actors didn't strike for the highest paid but for the lowest paid. They striked for clear rules on use of likeness in a world of AI & CGI. At the moment, it doesn't seem like the PDGA is set up anywhere close to those conditions. Also, unions are not just organizations that strike for fuck's sake. Once a contract is made, the union is very good for workers to continue learning important skills, set a higher standard for safety, & fulfilling it's obligations in the contract. When a union is contracted, they do the job to the highest standard or face contractual consequences from the companies. Again, PDGA doesn't have this issue, with so many clinics & youtube videos teaching form, not a lot of safety issues happening on the course that aren't being discussed (high winds & spectator safety come to mind recently when delaying that one tournie), & the contractual obligations only being an issue for Prodigy (maybe Gannon Buhr has resolved that already). Doesn't mean in the future it might be needed, so we should keep an open mind as the sport grows. But at this moment it is just not needed. The PDGA is still going through plenty of legal issues. Natalie Ryan & trans athletes is the biggest example. A union would do nothing because the fact is pros are split on how to best handle that situation, as are the lawyers for everyone. The union that will first come up is probably for course volunteers. At the moment, we get some pretty good swag for volunteering (Portland Open had a free disc per day, free bag, free water bottle, discount to Adidas stores, & a few other things). And some are willing to pay to volunteer & get that swag cheaper than it is to attend. But if the sports grows to a point where we need professional spotters & scorers, then we might see some regular volunteers raise the alarm. And again, it wouldn't be so much for getting paid minimum wage to work a tournie, but the TRAINING that would avoid people getting hit by discs on the course or how to spot/score at a higher level. I don't think the market is right now, but in the future it may be. It would probably be better for the PDGA to hire 18+ spotters & many scorers to travel with the tour for consistancy that we don't always see from one location to another. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

[@avoqado89]

Correction: When I said revenue share I mean't prize money payout.***

[@mandobrownie]

Lots of great points here. As you basically say, the main question is: is the current distribution of pro play derived revenue fair, and could it become unfair in the future? It’s likely that the current distribution is at worst minimally unfair unless manufacturers make more money from players than they lead on. But the distribution could definitely be unfair in the future, and a union could prevent that from happening.

[@DiscGolf_]

Thanks! :)

[@AemJaY]

damn.. a nice young roger federer in this video!

[@thewiz9727]

It sgoupd be an option

[@PitchperfectDG]

Nope. The pDGt is not raking in tons of money 🤣😂

[@coreydempsey4660]

LOL, no.

[@roedinger7634]

What if we had a human sacrifice for whoever comes in last place each year😅

[@johngallager19502]

I always support Unions. It may not be necessary just yet, but with the growth of the sport, it will be necessary soon.

[@DiscOutpost]

I am against it personally. Those that are making a million a year are not making it from tournament winnings. All unions tend to become political entities that end up "forcing" rules upon athletes. For example, those opposed to trans players will be fined, treated unfairly, banned, etc. It will most likely end up a bad idea. If players want money from the tour organizers, they need to work for it. Do some shows for PDGA or weekday clinics.

[@dalereinhold640]

Bury the unions with Hoffa. 👍🏾

[@Nah08]

No your nothing but a scab

[@koroba01]

Unionize? Heck no! First of all, the PDGA income compared to professional tennis and ball golf is far far far below the latter two, it isn’t anywhere close. Secondly, golf courses and tennis courts do not have extensive practice areas, in essence you practice golf on a putting green or a driving range; disc golfers can do the same at a course, or a field, or doing practice rounds. Third, unions as a whole are an old tired religion; they had their time decades ago in improving worker safety until laws caught up with the problem but now it is a hinderance. Some players may be making close to a million dollars but as I understand it most of that is from sponsorships. Disc golf has a long way to go before any unionization needs to be addressed. For the record, I’ve played since 1985 and have seen the sport grow, albeit very slowly until lately.

[@mandobrownie]

Can you name any unions that have failed to gain net positive gains for workers within their industry?

[@koroba01]

Not the point, the point is about sharing money, in this case money that is much much less than other individual sports (a specific example upon request). How about you address that issue? I will throw you a bone…in the 1950’s unions accounted for about 33% of the workers in the USA, as of September 2022 unions accounted for only 6% of the workforce (from www.white house.gov). Many reasons for this but it should be noted that if unions were such a great deal then it is not shown in this stat.

[@anitabonghit266]

No

[@TxCigarPirate]

In a word… no. Unions once served a purpose that is no longer needed. Today almost every union is destroying their industry.

[@mandobrownie]

Lmao, so you’re saying unions are part of why industries are being destroyed (what does that even mean by the way?) so much so that it’s reasonable to exclude any mention of companies? Gotchya, definitely a sensible judgement that isn’t just basic reactionary thinking

[@TxCigarPirate]

@@mandobrownieif I have to explain economics 101, collective bargaining (extortion), and pass thru costs then anything I say would be wasted. If you want to keep this sport affordable and accessible. Don’t unionize.

[@mandobrownie]

@@TxCigarPirate >Texas Cigar Pirate > "do you even know Econ 101" > calls collective bargaining extortion truly a bog standard American lmao

[@FrankBroughtonNY]

Especially the vile teacher unions! They are the pits!

[@Nah08]

False if it wasn’t for the unions you wouldn’t have good money or good pay good benefits etc I don’t need to explain why unions are good it’s stating the obvious

[@FuckGoogle2]

I'm not union at work, I'll never be union in discgolf.

[@Nah08]

Good nobody cares your just a scab