Should Final Fantasy Be Turn Based Again?

The timeless debate, turn based vs action in Final Fantasy

[@genkiian]

1:21 14 is FF's latest MMO. 15 is when FF became the "action" rpg genre 😁

[@davidblainescharizard]

Yeah that's what I meant 😅

[@Beaniboi]

I feel like the real reason Final Fantasy isn’t selling as well as Square Enix would like is because they’re limiting themselves to PS5 for so long. It certainly impacts their sales in the west very heavily. By the time these games come to other platforms, they’re no longer as interesting since they’ve technically been out for a year. I haven’t bought any of the FF7 remake. I got access to the first part on PS Plus at some point and played it through there. Had they launched it on PC sooner, I probably would have bought it. I bought Final Fantasy XVI, but hardly ever play it because it’s not on my preferred platform. Even though I’ve loved what I did play. Gameplay decisions have likely had an effect as well, but the way they choose to release these games definitely hurts their sales way more.

[@davidblainescharizard]

100% agree, I think these exclusivity deals hurt the sales the most. Almost going on a year since 16 released and still no word on a PC port, sucks to see.

[@KHhero]

FF17 should be modern combat to invite the most new fans unfamiliar with turn based but still enjoyable/familiar to og FF RPG fans because modern AAA games take so much to develop! FF 1 thru 10 Remasters are always here for retro ATB FF fans ;) Isn't the *real* question tho: "Should FF9 Remake be classic ATB *or* FF7R action combat style?" ;D

[@davidblainescharizard]

Yeah for the most part I agree with that, keeps things fresh for new and older players. I do think the numbers are getting too high and it can be a bit overwhelming, at least from my experience talking with people unfamiliar with FF. For IX, assuming all those leaks are real then they gotta keep that one old school atb imo

[@LudwigWilding]

Well, probably turn-based, yeah. Mostly because FF9 was already a throwback to classic Final Fantasy - so it's in its spirit to keep that feel. I don't think it would be a deciding factor though.

[@yonico_]

the problem with turn based combat is that it doesn't sell on a large spectrum. You have a few exceptions , but in general people are playing game just because of the popularity of a character , or something shocking etc... Persona 5 famous now because of Joker, FF7 (cloud & sephiroth) etc... but who know zidane or even squall? Turned based RPG always have been and will always somehow stay in a niche.

[@davidblainescharizard]

I love persona but if it had the same battle system in a standard fantasy rpg setting, I don't think it would have the same appeal. The anime asthetics and the focus on Japanese high school culture plays a huge part, I believe anyway. Granted I'm super pumped for Metaphor, but i don't expect it to do nearly as big numbers as persona.

[@LudwigWilding]

I remember many discussions about this from way back when. Nowadays, I'd say it doesn't really matter. No matter which title, I always enjoyed the combat - even the awful FF13 was really fun to play. The real loss of Final Fantasy lies somewhere else. Up to FF10 it was always two themes that were carrying: romance and the fight against darkness, sprinkled with moral dilemmas and belief in a spiritual sense. FFXII strayed from belief and focused more on a political struggle, romance was still in tact. After that it pretty much fell apart. FF13 was awfully written, FF15 was never the promised Versus13. Don't know enough about FF16 because at that point I didn't connect to what was shown. The battles didn't look that good, yeah - but that was true for FF13 as well. So I suppose, playing it would still be fun. But I want a JRPG, not political drama with MMO inspired mechanics. Not sure if I underestimate FF16 here, because apart from a few surprisingly engaging streams, I didn't pay much attention. Final Fantasy always had very memorable characters, be it Celes, Terra, Tifa, Aerith, Rinoa, Yuna, Garnet. Sure, Squall, Kefka, Sephiroth, Cloud, Edea and others were important too. But Lightning or Clive are just ...meh. Ashe, Fran & Balthier were still good, Vanille was a pleasant surprise within FF13. But to me, the question is much more about the characters and their adventures than the battle system. The battle system was sometimes oblique (specially FF13 needed a lot of time to getting used to), but always fun. I don't see the mistakes there. But the characters and stories were never what they were. Additionally, Remake/Rebirth does have some of the magic due to amazing animation quirks and the extension of the storylines and a better telling of the main story, but has so much stuff that just pushes me away (thanks for the multiverse nonsense), that I prefer to watch a playthrough than playing it myself - because I can skip the bad parts easily. Again, I don't blame the gameplay. Lastly your analysis is on point as well. There are turn-based games from Square. These are a niche market, so it's not something that you can consider for such a big title. It's a tricky situation for Square to be in. To me, even Nier: Automata (despite it's different setting) felt more like an old Final Fantasy than later Final Fantasies ever did. And that is down to the relationship of the characters, the underlying feelings of the main characters and most importantly due to the story telling. 2B is basically the poster that would have been Yuna in 2000. Lead characters to aspire to. Luna once was something like that - when it was Versus 13. So, as much as I agree with you, the problems of Final Fantasy are elsewhere in my opinion. Maybe the always looming expectation of what an open world means has never been solved either.

[@davidblainescharizard]

@LudwigWilding I agree with a lot of that! It's true that 13, 15, and 16 to a lesser extent struggle with their cast of characters, they aren't as endearing as the older characters. I think 16's main cast is a step in the right direction but that game has different issues with how it told it's story. Thematically though, 16 does start very political like 12 but by the end it kinda becomes a big throwback to older final fantasies, almost even too on the nose at times. I do like that aspect of it though.

[@Fugget_Weeble]

damn i'm early.

[@davidblainescharizard]

It's pretty late I really should get some sleep 😴

[@bunniesbunniesbunnie]

some of it is the lack of enjoyable gameplay (I'm only in mt. corel in ffvii rebirth and I got my game release day. and it's fucking terrible.) some of it is the weird cringe anime uwu shit they keep cramming into incorrect scenes. the older FF games weren't scared to take serious moments seriously. They weren't afraid of dark themes. The new ones are so weirdly sunshiney all the time and none of the stakes seem to feel like they matter.

[@bunniesbunniesbunnie]

also all the stupid shitty extras: nobody wants to play with sphere grids (or "folios") or any of that garbage. nobody wants a bunch of stupid leveling up junk for weapons and armor and all that mess. people want plain leveling that doesn't require a 900 year grind, relatively customizable characters, and such. it's not hard to do.

[@davidblainescharizard]

16 is bleak as hell so that's more of an issue with Rebirth specifically than the series. But I do agree, Rebirth didn't let the most dramatic scenes breathe at all, like with the Dyne scene where it just comes across weird. I didn't notice that issue with Remake as much.

[@bunniesbunniesbunnie]

@@davidblainescharizard 16 bleakness still doesn't feel authentic to me fwiw