Should Lot have been saved? Wrestling with Lot's Choices and God's Mercy

[@beyoorbeyoutiful5810]

Being a women I would have to say this is one of the scriptures that give me "PAUSE" at times a lot of pause but your precept upon precept approach with this has been very helpful HALLELUYAH TODA

[@biblenotetakingwithkatie]

💛 God bless you

[@Imsaved777]

I’m just thankful that I have a Great High Priest interceding on my behalf that through Jesus I may come boldly before the throne of grace. Hebrews 4:16.

[@biblenotetakingwithkatie]

Amen! God bless!!

[@texasstardust1]

Hi Katie, this has been a very heart moving moment in the Bible. Unfortunately, in some areas in the early biblical times, women were treated as a commodity, instead of receiving the respect and consideration they were do. In some areas they still are treated that way. We are very blessed to have the freedom of education, the ability to study religion, and eventually to decide the paths we want to follow as we mature into adulthood.

[@biblenotetakingwithkatie]

That is so true! 💛

[@christywhitley6053]

Reading New Years day, so I just read and wrestled with this scripture as well. Beyond disturbing that Lots said to them to do with them as you will. I just kept thinking surely the angels would protect the girls.

[@biblenotetakingwithkatie]

The angels blinded the men so that was good. It is so difficult

[@Exercises10]

Excellent video, Katie! I love learning these stories and hearing how others see them as meaningful for our current day. Blessings!

[@pkmcnett5649]

I think Lot already knew what the answer was going to be from the men. That being said it was how women were treated then. The Book of 2nd Peter mentions Lot, too. "...and delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked." (KJV) 2nd Peter 2:7 OR "...and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked." There is a later story that is worse involving the concubine of a priest

[@biblenotetakingwithkatie]

Thank you for this Bible reference!!. I really appreciate it and it’s reminded me that I need to do some searching on more info about Lot. The interesting thing I’m seeing about that verse is that it says he was vexed by the filthy conversations of those around him. So he wasn’t liking his surroundings. I wonder if that explains the difference between he and his wife. But yes, I have that story with the concubine written in there. It’s just do horrifying!!

[@BibleTreasuresAndReviews]

Katie, thank you for explaining what you've learned. This has been one of those passages that is difficult to read. I appreciate your notes.❤

[@biblenotetakingwithkatie]

💛

[@Elisheva2020]

Thank you VERY MUCH, dear Katie for this insightful video! I'm currently in the exact same chapter studying, so the content of your video has helped a lot. The Most High use us as His instruments to channel truth through to others who are still learning - Worship and Praise Him for that because He alone enables!!! Sending blessings all the way from South Africa

[@biblenotetakingwithkatie]

Awe so amazing to connect. God bless you!

[@PopleBackyardFarm]

Custom of times were so different then. Coming under somones protection in that culture was major ...it was a culture thing ..to us in our culture it is unbelievable

[@biblenotetakingwithkatie]

But to give a stranger a higher level of protection… tough one

[@christalleescholes1000]

Really enjoying your videos Katie, I always had a terrible time with this as well, you gave good insight, thank you.

[@biblenotetakingwithkatie]

Yea, there are so many female things that are such a struggle

[@christalleescholes1000]

@@biblenotetakingwithkatie yes I always hated reading that part, I just didn't understand it.

[@helencard4327]

Thanks for enlightening me on this passage as I always struggled with it as well. Also, can you tell me what your short form "IOW" stands for...

[@biblenotetakingwithkatie]

In Other Words … many times I’m using other translations but sometimes someone words it in a way that is helpful

[@tonyduckworth3290]

Hé knew they weren’t interested in them

[@biblenotetakingwithkatie]

Several people have said this. Sooo your belief is that he wasn’t trying to actually convince them to do something different. He was talking just to talk? My thought is that he told them they could do whatever they wanted with them. Torture? Who knows what could have happened. I’m glad the angels were there.

[@tonyduckworth3290]

@@biblenotetakingwithkatie maybe he was just trying to stall them. But just because this is in the Bible doesn’t mean God agreed with what what Lot did

[@biblenotetakingwithkatie]

@@tonyduckworth3290 yes, I mention in the video that God doesn’t approve of everything that happens in the Bible. Lot was rescued though… so it’s a difficult passage for many people.

[@tonyduckworth3290]

@@biblenotetakingwithkatie and maybe he panicked and wasn’t thinking straight 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@biblenotetakingwithkatie]

@@tonyduckworth3290 it’s just a really hard thing no matter what… for me at least

[@messenger2023]

I would like to put forward an alternative explanation here. In Gen 19:5 The people were asking for the men to have sex with. Lot wanted to protect the "men" and so offered his daughters. He knew they would not want them as the crowd were obviously homosexual. By calling the angels "My Lords" (v2), Lot must have also been trying his best to protect them, at the same time. Verses 14 and 15 show that the reason why Lot hsitated was not that he wanted to stay in the sinful place but that he was wanting the sons-in-law, who were pledged to marry his daughter so that his lineage could be protected. Lot's wife was the only one that wanted to turn back to the life of sin and was destroyed. When God "remembered" Abraham, I do not think it was for his intercession but rather that God remembered the promise He made to Abraham that the world would be blessed through his seed (meaning Jesus). Mary had a direct line back to King David and David would not have been born had not Lots daughter sleeping with their father to "preserve the seed". The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab; he is the father of the Moabites" (Gen 19:37). Ruth was a Moabite. She married Boaz and their son was Obed, whose son was Jesse, whose son was King David. Therefore this was all of necessity and not as bad as it first appears by reading out of context. :)

[@biblenotetakingwithkatie]

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts on it! 💛

[@shirleybaker8709]

Thank you for very good insight on this particular passage. It is just one of several passages that I really struggle to understand. I believe this passage shows that sometimes bad things happens to bring forth good things in the end results, as your interpretation suggest.

[@jennifermartin8431]

I think that you are missing that Lot is not entirely without virtue. Lot mirrors the hospitality of Abraham. He defends the strangers, stepping out of his own door and into the crowd that is intent on rape and murder - he risks his own life for strangers (that we know are angels, but it is not clear if Lot knows they are angels). Now Lot dwells in a city - unlike Abraham, he is not a herdsman and so his wealth is not in his livestock, but in his personal belongings. Additionally, he doesn't have any sons, but his daughters are betrothed, their marriages are imminent. Lot would expect to gain more wealth upon the marriage of his daughters, but only if they are still virgins. By offering his daughters to the crowd in lieu of the strangers, he is offering all his wealth and his only chance of a legacy (grandchildren) to save the strangers. His generosity is his virtue.

[@jennifermartin8431]

There is so much more here to dig into as well. Lot is an elder of the city, through this point in Genesis cities are dens of iniquities of the worst kinds (so that Lot has any virtue at all speaks to his character), Lots daughters and wife are as evil as any other city dweller (his wife is so reticent to leave the debauchery behind that she looks back longingly, even as the city is destroyed, his daughters rape their own father. Then there's the interesting literary discussion of one of the strangers speaking as God to God in heaven while the third stranger, who is, presumably, Christ, is back at Abraham's camp talking with Abraham, and the parallels and contrasts between Lot and Abraham, and the symbolism of the pastoral vs city life.

[@biblenotetakingwithkatie]

I understand what you are saying. For me, though, it is a difficult story and a statement that “well, women were a matter of gaining wealth and he was willing to give that up” is a difficult concept for me. But I sincerely am glad with whatever helps people get through this passage. I know God is love… love for men AND women. Thank you for writing. Your words might be a comfort for someone. God bless you.

[@undividedheart4436]

I disagree with the point made for Genesis 19:29. 2 Peter 2:7 -8 states that Lot was indeed righteous, he himself being afflicted by the constant lawlessness he was surrounded by therefore God delivered him.

[@biblenotetakingwithkatie]

I can understand why you feel that way. I am remembering mentioning that verse in the video but I haven’t been able to go back and rewatch to confirm one way or the other. Something to consider is that God says “no one is righteous”. Also Christ said “no one is good except God”. We can decide to be covered by Christ’s righteousness / to have faith… but, of ourselves, we are not. I think of it as Lot was saved according to 2 Peter 2:7-8… but in that moment, in Genesis, God references the intercession of Abraham. I’m not sure exactly how it all works but I know we are called to intercede for others. We can see this in the life of Moses and Daniel and even in the life of Christ. But, again, this is something I wrestle with. 💛

[@undividedheart4436]

@biblenotetakingwithkatie @biblenotetakingwithkatie I agree with. Apart from God, we ourselves are not righteous, we are not good. The epitome and the founder of righteousness is God Himself. That is why we need Him. That is why by the power of His Holy Spirit that dwells inside of us , we are able to will and to do His good pleasure (Philippians 2:13) and that, by extension of Him, makes us righteous. (2 Corinthians 5:21) I don’t think it’s right to believe that we are sinners because we are not. A sinner by definition is a person walking in willful sin. Do the righteous stumble? Of course. But no one who is striving after God is walking in willful sin. At least, they shouldn’t be. They should be dead to sin and alive in Messiah. I understand your perception of the verse that states none is righteous but we have to look at it as a whole with the rest of scripture. The context of that particular verse is the fact that we are reminded that apart from Him, there truly is no righteousness in us. We did not create righteousness. It has and will always be an extension of God Himself. It is His essence. I’m also sure that God did take into account intercession from Abraham for Lot. But 2 Peter does state Lot was righteous. So we either accept the information we’ve been given or assume that someone is lying/misled in the writings which I would rather believe the accounts that we’ve been given than to assume anything in the word contradicts itself. Something I always try to remind myself is that, if anything looks like it contradicts itself, perhaps it’s just my understanding that is flawed at the moment and I need to further study. May God bless you and keep you 💖

[@undividedheart4436]

@biblenotetakingwithkatie such a great reminder of this whole topic : 1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one lead you astray; he who is doing righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous.

[@biblenotetakingwithkatie]

Thank you!