Should rich Christians downgrade their lifestyle?

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"Should rich Christians downgrade their lifestyle? What does the Bible say about wealth and riches?"
Dr. Robert Plummer answers in Honest Answers | Episode 103
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[@ric_gatewood]

We shoukd not seek to raise our standard of living, but our standard of giving.

[@moremoneymorefreedom6725]

Sow more seed, standard of living will increase.

[@BigTruth88]

Seek the Kingdom first and all these things shall be added to you

[@Lilly-2GBTG]

And His righteousness. That’s the hard part!

[@calcobb442]

No need to downgrade, just upgrade your giving.

[@adamduarte895]

Yes, Lydia had money and a big house and they used it to meet, the idea being use your riches for the kingdom always, and if they start to overtake you, rid yourself of them. Like when Jesus says cut off your hand

[@stalker7892]

Even poor people can be enticed by money and the world. The Bible teaches that the LOVE of money is the root of all kinds of evil.....

[@davidj8384]

Exactly. There's way too many Christians that think it's virtuous to live a poor lifestyle and oppose money but you can do a lot more good with money than without it.

[@RT-qz5ci]

This is a great point.

[@DrGero15]

"Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy. Let them do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to give, willing to share, storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life." 1 Timothy 6:17-19 "If our expenditure on comforts, luxuries, amusements, etc, is up to the standard common among those with the same income as our own, we are probably giving away too little." C.S. Lewis

[@considerthetruth]

excellent commentary on the balance. Each person must prayerfully figure out what God would have them do with their riches, and we don't have a place to judge others for their decisions.

[@jaypie0864]

As a wealthy, passionate follower of Christ, Luke 12:15 has always guided me: “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; life does not consist in an abundance of possessions.” I drive a nice car, have a nice house and that’s it. Nice and simple. The fact that they are safe and reliable is the gift of peace that the Lord has blessed me with. All other wealth is invested and given for the purpose of growing the kingdom.

[@shannonshepherd5365]

Dr. Plummer!!! It’s good to see you, I find you often popping up in my commentary’s I’m glad to see you well🙏🏾

[@amirmagonid3386]

Lol, if God tells you to do so. Us poor Christians who sleep on the sidewalks, bus benches, under bridges, vacant run down buildings, parking lots, in cars, trucks, vans, studio apartments, etc , are blessed by our Lord and Savior YeshuaJesus to be able to survive. He will graciously, mercifully and compassionately provide for rich Christians too, amen and amen.

[@balanor]

Dont be ridiculous. In this country, if you sleep on the streets it's your fault due to substance abuse or extreme laziness. Christianity is of sound mind and sound life which is brought by legitimate faith. Also, the materially poor should stop being envious to the materially rich. Envy is sin too.

[@stuartdavidson162]

@@balanor Totally disagree that there are only two reasons why people are homeless. More than 60% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck as of September 2023, according to a LendingClub report so it wouldn't take much hardship for these people to find themselves on the streets. Even people in higher income brackets are affected with more than half of Americans earning over $100,000 a year live paycheck to paycheck. Seems important to you why a person is homeless rather than regognising that the person is homeless and just stop there. Judgemental much! Is that what JC would do?

[@balanor]

If you live paycheck to paycheck, there are tremendous changes that you need to go through but you wont be homeless. If you're homeless, it's your fault. Homelessness does not automatically mean you are a Christian and you're persecuted by the rich. That argument is pretentious. Most of the time, if you're homeless in a free capitalist nation, it's your fault!

[@robertson-winningallthetim7241]

If you are homeless it is your fault. There are so many avenues to get off your blessed ass urance. There was a homeless man peddling in Glendale, CA. I used to see him once a week. He finally got a chance to speak to me. Nothing but scripture came out of his mouth. He tried to use it to make me feel like giving to him. I asked him, how come you know all this scripture and don't apply it? The conversation came around to my final comment, "You can't mock God." He didn't like what I was saying, but he was just flat out lazy and a homeless con.

[@petersanders2815]

@@balanorLOL! I don’t remember the bit where Jesus said if you’re poor it’s your own fault, so suck it up Princess. Must have missed that day at bible study. I do remember the bit where he told a rich man to sell everything, give the money to the poor and follow him. I also remember the bit about it’s easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter into heaven. Don’t think Jesus thought much of the rich. He definitely didn’t blame the poor for being poor. Maybe his supposed followers should do the same.

[@AwakeningAfrica]

Love this! Well said Dr.Plumber. This is a tension we live in overseas as missionaries. In the States, we are poor, here in Uganda, we would be considered rich. May we all lay our gifts and giftings at the foot of the cross!

[@deion312]

Great nuanced answer

[@ebhoehl363]

Thank you.

[@kennethduckworth7111]

“Once the demands of necessity and propriety have been met, the rest that one owns belongs to the poor.” - Leo XIII, “Rerum Novarum”

[@KnightFel]

Yet the the popes were all fabulously wealthy living in total luxury.

[@kennethduckworth7111]

@@KnightFel i'll take the social teaching of the Catholic Church over the Prospertiy Gospel any day. The latter is simply heresy.

[@gardenjoy5223]

Excellent short teaching. The comment section provided some extra Scriptures on the topic, as to complete it more. But I think one can easily fill two whole days on the topic of wealth. I'm glad, that the material promises to Israel are understood in that way: promises to Israel, which is an earthly kingdom. We however are part of the Kingdom of Heaven and Jesus laid out a set of rules, that apply in it: "Give and you shall be given" for instance. "Who sows sparingly, will reap sparingly" as another one.

[@kendrom]

It’s a good question. I think you can be rich, create jobs, yet live a modest life…dedicating most of your wealth toward helping people… Or you can be rich, and horde your wealth. I think it’d be a safe bet that the former is closer to Christian values. So yes, you can create wealth, but it’s better to spend most of it on helping, and for yourself, maintain a modest lifestyle.

[@apachewraith]

That's what rich is.. hoarding.

[@vnzlb]

Idk why im watching this, but as a financially challenged adult living in Vancouver, Canada, this might come in handy when the Lord blesses my storehouses, amen 🙏🏼

[@UnfilteredMedic]

I used to want to be rich. Not mega billionaire rich but where I could work a job I loved and enjoy life. I learned much later after becoming a Christian I do NOT want to be rich. All the "good I can do" but the LURE of almost endless things I could do would ruin what good I or most would do. I do know that I would do better than who I was before but in short, I'm not one of o those well-to-do (not rich) Christians and I'm fine with that.

[@Ad-Lo]

And what about Abraham.

[@UnfilteredMedic]

@@Ad-Lo What about him?

[@ShamrockRagEll]

Same here. I’m doing pretty well, but I would be fine with less if I were sure to A) have enough to feed my family and B) have some more to feed the ones in need. That’s what matters in life.

[@UnfilteredMedic]

@@ShamrockRagEll Sadly, the more "stuff" you have the odds of whoever is left WILL fight over it and will divide the family even more.

[@ShamrockRagEll]

@@UnfilteredMedic absolutely. That’s why the title of the video appealed to me. I wonder a lot if I should get rid of most "stuff". Not only because the reasons you suggest, but also because it leads my focus astray. "What am I going to wear?" "What watch to put on from my collection" - I feel like I think about so much unimportant stuff.

[@SL-dq5bz]

I like the example John Piper showed to his congregation when he capped his salary at a certain amount. He was then approached by the deacons who said that other pastors in their church who make less than him will also see their salaries capped and they have bunch of kids and expenses. Piper asnwered that he doesn't mind if junior pastors make more than him. He also called people to have modest life style and don't bother amassing wealth as this could be a trap when time comes to choosing between God and wealth.

[@SL-dq5bz]

@@ichernichenko Would you? By the way, how do you know his net worth? I'm assuming he makes a lot from his book sales. How do you know that he does not give aways a large portion of his income?

[@SL-dq5bz]

@@ichernichenko How do you know, from the "Internets"? I believe we should not accuse brothers, especially, pastors, if you don't have a first hand knowledge of something wrong that they do. Did you try to talk to MacArthur about his "lavish" lifestyle before making claims in your previous post?

[@SL-dq5bz]

@@ichernichenko That's good Vanya but you spilled it already.

[@SL-dq5bz]

​@@ichernichenkoExpensive - it's a relative term. Someone in small Ukrainian village where houses cost $5k-$10k might say that a house in, let's say, some town of Washington state that costs >= $600K is expensive but it is actually not. It's just an average house. Whaf is expensive to you?

[@ichernichenko]

@SL-dq5bz I do agree it is relative. A $5 dollar coffee for us means nothing as we make a lot more. But for a pastor in South America that lives on $15 a month, that's an insane luxury. But McArthur lives within a community and country where standards of living are much higher. He has, if I understand correctly, 3 luxury houses. By basic measurements in the U.S., it's a masion with a huge outdoor pool. I'm not blaming him for, just mentioning that it's not so small as you are making it seem.

[@HawgJawn]

Yes

[@LefeinNoel]

I feel like the scripture told you that if you’ve reached a point in giving where you’ve gotten an onset feeling that the wealth you’ve stored is under any sort of threat, you should go back and read it again. I feel like your answer is the best a good person is going to give, especially one in such a precarious position, in an even more precarious environment. That these things are precarious with wealth being the topic, well I think it shows we may need to read it again.

[@namasi7070]

I was a part of teams that showed the Jesus Film in settlements in my third world country in the 80's. Once we were visited by a small group of very ordinary looking individuals. They ate our local food and sat on the floor and listened to our stories. Later we found out that they were very wealthy and they funded the costs of equipment and translation work for the Oceania region. How you use your money is important. 9:46

[@joshpipe7755]

Thank you for sharing this story of your experience. It sounds like that group who visited are really modelling what it means to live out Jesus' teachings - and now they're inspiring this stranger from the other side of the world 😊

[@matswessling6600]

😂 poor settler that had to view that shit.

[@gardenjoy5223]

@@matswessling6600 When you don't understand something, that doesn't mean you have to try to defile it. God gave part of Himself in Jesus Christ to die on Your behalf so that everlasting life in His presence in heaven would become available to you. It's like winning the biggest lottery, but then every day again! And you spit on that... You laugh at the pains of the Savior? Well then, have Him as your Judge instead! See how well that will go for you. The choice is yours. Better choose wisely.

[@matswessling6600]

@@gardenjoy5223 your skydaddy isnt anything but an imaginary friend. The bible is a bunch if lies and "pains of the saviour"? there are lot of people having way worse that sitting on a cross for some hours...

[@reasonablemind6830]

Jesus told the whole crowd and not only to just one person in Luke 12.33-34 to “Sell you possessions and give to the needy… then you would have an unfailing treasure in heaven, where thieves cannot steal…For where your treasure is, there your heart will [truly] be also.” And Jesus told his disciples and not only to just one rich young man that “No one can be my disciple if he does not give up all his possessions” (Luke 14.33)

[@velkyn1]

"Downgrade"? Jesus says they should give up *all* they have: "25 Now large crowds were travelling with him; and he turned and said to them, 26 ‘Whoever comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be my disciple. 27 Whoever does not carry the cross and follow me cannot be my disciple. 28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not first sit down and estimate the cost, to see whether he has enough to complete it? 29 Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it will begin to ridicule him, 30 saying, “This fellow began to build and was not able to finish.” 31 Or what king, going out to wage war against another king, will not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to oppose the one who comes against him with twenty thousand? 32 If he cannot, then, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks for the terms of peace. 33 So therefore, none of you can become my disciple if you do not give up all your possessions." Luke 14 "16 Then someone came to him and said, ‘Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?’ 17 And he said to him, ‘Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.’ 18 He said to him, ‘Which ones?’ And Jesus said, ‘You shall not murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honour your father and mother; also, You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’ 20 The young man said to him, ‘I have kept all these;[b] what do I still lack?’ 21 Jesus said to him, ‘If you wish to be perfect, go, sell your possessions, and give the money[c] to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.’ 22 When the young man heard this word, he went away grieving, for he had many possessions." Matthew 19

[@kolaoj5174]

Luke 14’s giving up your posessions is a call to renouncing your grip on everything you have, acknowledging that God is the true owner of everything. The call is to view yourself as a slave of God/Christ and not your own. Whatever God’s will is for your money, you should be willing to submit to it. In that sense, you’ve given up all you have: The rich young ruler is called to give away his riches because he loved if more than God, it was a snare to him. If Jesus was calling for a strict giving up of everything that you have in a way that meant having nothingb at all in the life, it would contradict many things he taught. Like making use of our earthly wealth for eternal purposes and other things that have been said

[@velkyn1]

@@kolaoj5174 I do enjoy when Christians desperately try to invent interpretations so they dont'; have to actually follow what their supposed messiah said. It says nothing about "renouncing" one's grip. It says give up all you have. You simply lie, dear. This jesus repeatedly says give up all you have and follow him, and to trust this god to provide whatever you need. Shall I show another set of verses? "22 He said to his disciples, ‘Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat, or about your body, what you will wear. 23 For life is more than food, and the body more than clothing. 24 Consider the ravens: they neither sow nor reap, they have neither storehouse nor barn, and yet God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than the birds! 25 And can any of you by worrying add a single hour to your span of life?[d] 26 If then you are not able to do so small a thing as that, why do you worry about the rest? 27 Consider the lilies, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin;[e] yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not clothed like one of these. 28 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, how much more will he clothe you-you of little faith! 29 And do not keep striving for what you are to eat and what you are to drink, and do not keep worrying. 30 For it is the nations of the world that strive after all these things, and your Father knows that you need them. 31 Instead, strive for his[f] kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well. 32 ‘Do not be afraid, little flock, for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom. 33 Sell your possessions, and give alms. Make purses for yourselves that do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. 34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." Luke 12 So, where did jesus say to use one's earthly wealth for "eternal purposes"? Surely you can quote chapter and verse, right? "Luke 14’s giving up your posessions is a call to renouncing your grip on everything you have, acknowledging that God is the true owner of everything. The call is to view yourself as a slave of God/Christ and not your own. Whatever God’s will is for your money, you should be willing to submit to it. In that sense, you’ve given up all you have: The rich young ruler is called to give away his riches because he loved if more than God, it was a snare to him. If Jesus was calling for a strict giving up of everything that you have in a way that meant having nothingb at all in the life, it would contradict many things he taught. Like making use of our earthly wealth for eternal purposes and other things that have been said"

[@kolaoj5174]

@velkyn1 I haven’t said enough for you to call me a liar, so it is quite bold for you to suggest that. You would think that seeing as you are not a Christian, there would be a level of humility when challenging people who believe and read the bible… I’m well acquainted with these verses, they don’t teach that you cannot own anything. It is clearly about understanding that God is the ultimate provider of everything we have. Therefore we shouldn’t be anxious about money, holding on to it as though we were in control when in fact he has absolute sovereign control over every thing that happens including our provision. It is good will to give us the kingdom (the future state where all will be perfect), so if that’s the case we know that even in testing situations, he means well for his own. I may work, but God is the one who has ordained my work. My circumstances might change tomorrow and it may be his will for me to have more or less money… but all is well because he provides. I play my part by working but he sovereignly orchestrates everything in my life. Without his gracious provision I’ll have nothing. The result of Jesus’ teaching here should be that we have a freedom when it comes to money, we can give away riches because we know we have a God who provides. We don’t have to worry all the time about food and provisions because it is God’s character to provide for his own all that they need to live lives that honour him. That’s why in verse 32 he doesn’t say “give up all you have” as a strict command, he attaches that phrase to the tender reminder that we have no reason to be afraid because of all he’s said about God. The understanding of God’s provision for Christians can play out differently in each Christian’s life. It rarely plays out in actually giving away absolutely everything because of what else Jesus (and the rest of the bible) taught about money, namely that it can and should be used for good. The chapter and verse that you so presumptuously assumed that I don’t have is: And I tell you, make friends for yourselves by means of unrighteous wealth, so that when it fails they may receive you into the eternal dwellings. “One who is faithful in a very little is also faithful in much, and one who is dishonest in a very little is also dishonest in much. If then you have not been faithful in the unrighteous wealth, who will entrust to you the true riches? And if you have not been faithful in that which is another’s, who will give you that which is your own? No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.” - Luke 16:9-13 The phrase unrighteous wealth, is an idiom for the wealth of this world. After telling a parable about a shrewd but corrupt manager and a rich owner of a business, Jesus applies his parable by saying that even unrighteous people are shrewd in their earthly dealings (v8). Saved people, disciples of Christ who know about eternal things ought to be even more shrewd. Not in a corrupt way but in a way that shows they understand and believe what Jesus has taught about eternity. We are to use our earthly wealth, to make friends that will receive us into eternal dwellings. That is to say we are to use our wealth for evangelistic purposes, funding missionaries, funding churches, funding anything that helps progress the message of salvation through Jesus Christ. That message that says he has come to reconcile men to God through his life and his subsequent death on the cross. When we use our money to fund that, people will be reconciled to God, saved and on their way to heaven. Wesley are friends to them even if we don’t meet them here. Should they die and go to heaven before us, they’re going to be right at the doors of heaven welcoming us as the people who used our money to progress the message that saved their souls. Earthly possessions used well can rescue people for eternity. Many other things in Jesus life contradicts your understanding of what he taught about money/possessions: 1. Jesus had a money bag, Judas carried and managed it: “He said this, not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief, and having charge of the moneybag he used to help himself to what was put into it.”- John 12:6 2. Jesus made use of other people’s earthly possessions for his work without any tension. * The donkey he rode into Jerusalem was owned by another and borrowed by him (Mark 11:1-3). * The house he used for the last supper was owned by another but borrowed by him (Luke 22:11-12) 3. As Jesus died on the cross, he told John to take care of his mother, Mary: “When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home.” - John 19:26-27 * If Jesus taught to just rely on God and not posses anything then why did he expect John to have the provision to take care of his mother? * Why would John have a home to take Mary into if he had rid himself of every possession. 4. Jesus told his disciples to prepare themselves for life without him: “And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.”- Luke 22:35-36 * This again proves what I’ve already said. At one point Jesus had sent them out to preach without any earthly provisions, suspending the normal sensible choices we would have to make to survive (Luke 10:3-12). He did this so that he could display the extent of God’s ability to provide. But now that he was to no longer be with them he told them to buy things because in normal life you have to work whilst God is providing for you. 5. Jesus’ Apostles, who either wrote or oversaw the writing of the gospels taught to use money/possessions well: * Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need.- Ephesians 4:28 * There are so many other passages, I’d probably hit the word limit on KZbin so I’ll leave it there. The Bible is like a jigsaw. If you only take one piece (a passage or verse) you might think you have the whole picture but when you get more pieces and put them next to the one you already have you get a much clearer picture. People often think that one verse/passage is everything needed to understand a teaching comprehensively but that is just not always the case. Please take my humble advice, read more. One of the top rules of Bible interpretation is “scripture interprets scripture”. Many passages have light shined on them by other passages. One of the downsides of having chapters/verses/headings in our bibles is that we tend to take too many breaks in reading the Bible and so don’t get a contextual grasp of what is really being taught. We walk away with verses out of context and a bad understanding of the aim of the one speaking. Can I ask, why are you not a Christian?

[@rebbrown7140]

​@@velkyn1I'm sorry but this is simplistic logic. You say Jesus wants me to give up everything so he can provide. Then what do I do with the things he provides, give them up too? If I give up my winter coat this spring and God provides me with another one next fall, should I give that one up too before the cold? You have to interpret these things in context with all other things in the Bible and in appreciation of the depth of wisdom contained in these scriptures.

[@velkyn1]

@@rebbrown7140 I do enjoy the desperate excuses Christians make so they don't have to do what their supposed messiah said. You are to give up all to follow jesus and no, dear it doesn't mean you give up those things provided for you, since that would be the basic needs any human has as jesus promises in the lilies speech. Try again, dear. It's great to see christians deseprately be rules lawyers so they can keep their stuff. No wisdom in your ignorant bible, dear, just the usual commands a cult tries to give to its members. "I'm sorry but this is simplistic logic. You say Jesus wants me to give up everything so he can provide. Then what do I do with the things he provides, give them up too? If I give up my winter coat this spring and God provides me with another one next fall, should I give that one up too before the cold? You have to interpret these things in context with all other things in the Bible and in appreciation of the depth of wisdom contained in these scriptures."

[@heaveningearth]

that's a good word!

[@mikem9309]

Having money isn’t the problem it’s how high a value you put on that and what you do with it. Holding what God gives you with an open hand.

[@nishisingh227]

Yes! Without sacrificing one's fruitfulness.

[@blackbeardsghost6588]

I look at my bank account each week and pace our spending to make sure we can make it to the next mortgage payment and bill paying cycle. I feel "poor". Then I always look at the home I live in, the 12 and 15 year old vehicles me and my wife drive, the expanded waistline I have, the birthday and Christmas gifts I give and receive, and the electronic items I own, to name a few. By historical standards, I'm a "fat man". I sometimes wonder how envious David and Solomon would have been. And I think about that very narrow gate, and how difficult it could be for a camel like me to fit through the eye of a needle. Once, in Houston on a business trip, I stopped at a Subway to get a sandwich before going to my hotel room. Standing in line, I saw two women ahead of me, chatting. I thought nothing of it. They continued their seemingly friendly conversation while I ordered and they paid. After I got my food, I turned to the door to leave, and noticed that one of the women was sitting and about to eat. The other got her drink . . . and then walked out of the store! I looked more closely at the woman at the table, and realized that she was still conversing . . . apparently with no one. She was wearing older, somewhat dirty clothes. But she was eating. The other woman got in her car and drove away. Then I was reminded of Matthew 6:1-4. "Watch out! Don't do your good deeds publicly, to be admired by others, for you will lose the reward from your Father in Heaven. When you give to someone in need, don't do as the hypocrites do - blowing trumpets in the synagogues and streets to call attention to their acts of charity! I tell you the truth, they have received all the reward they will ever get. But when you give to someone in need, don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing. Give your gifts in private, and your Father, who sees everything, will reward you." I saw a woman doing exactly that.

[@donaldkeith139]

I don't get the story about the women? Was the one at the table blind?

[@blackbeardsghost6588]

@@donaldkeith139 I have a feeling the woman who was speaking into empty space was homeless and possibly mentally incapacitated in some way. The woman who drove away had just purchased her meal for her.

[@donaldkeith139]

@@blackbeardsghost6588 ahhhhhhhhhh that makes sense, thank you brother

[@eusouluizgustavo]

The key is to understand wealth as a gift. And we are not owners, but stewards of wealth. Look at the talents parable: the master rewards those who multiplied their resources, calling them faithful servants. But the one who hoarded was called wicked and slothful. If God consider us, a good a faithful steward, He shall gives us more resources to manage. But if he doesn’t consider us a faithful steward, He shall give our resources to a better steward. “For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.”

[@ric_gatewood]

We hardly ever talk about the sin of covetness which Paul calls Idolatry.

[@tandrew7175]

Yes.

[@user-hs2lr6vj6c]

Fascinating that from the pulpit on tithing Sunday, it is quite clear. From the seminarian to provide seminary donors with rationale, it is quite nuanced. I wonder if christians followed the plain language of the Bible, would poverty, homelessness, etc., still exist?

[@MylesSPearson]

”So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.“ ‭‭Luke‬ ‭14‬:‭33‬ ‭LSB‬‬

[@triatlasco959]

You better sell your phone then brother

[@MylesSPearson]

@@triatlasco959 The phone I use is not mine.

[@MyLordAndMyGodJesusChrist]

you better stop justifying and instead follow your conviction. ​@@triatlasco959

[@gardenjoy5223]

@@triatlasco959 You love to ridicule what Jesus said? That's utterly foolish! Why not rather apply this verse to your OWN life? And see what God has you to give up? Be it even YOUR phone?

[@davidpaul2004]

Offcourse first sell yourself first to Jesus! He will tell u if u have to sell your phone or your underwear!

[@jeffbicknell9971]

I'm curious why he didn't address people like Kenneth Copeland, Joel Osteen etc etc etc. Some of the most unhappy people I've met are the richest and the happiest are the poorest. Probably because they have people who love them and they know the big picture and the end game....the first will be last...

[@Rubberglass]

Rich is relative. If money is your greatest treasure you should give more to help free yourself from idolizing wealth.

[@josremery]

It's sad that I knew his answer before the video even started.

[@kentfrederick8929]

I was raised by people who grew up during the Depression. So, I have a notion that just because you have money doesn't mean you spend it. In my mind, I can't justify spending thousands of dollars on a Rolex watch, when a Bulova or Hamilton keeps very good time for a few hundred dollars. I can't justify spending crazy money for Italian-made suits, when a Hart, Schaffner & Marx suit looks very good, lasts a long time, and is reasonably priced.

[@parler8698]

Pray about it, always. Do not let jealous people guilt trip!

[@catholictruth102]

Scripture is clear. The apostles and followers of Christ all sold their property in Acts.

[@Ad-Lo]

@@catholictruth102 not ALL the property. All the people. Please read.

[@KnightFel]

@@catholictruth102selling your property and being poor isn’t a virtue, it doesn’t increase your standing before God. Poor people can be greedy and envious too.

[@catholictruth102]

@@KnightFel It is a virtue. Jesus commended the widow who gave what she had, relative to her very little. He didn’t commend those who gave out of their surplus. So it’s clearly a virtue, don’t fall into coveting. As scripture teaches conveyers clearly go to hell, Eph 5:3-6.

[@2010ETHANC]

Enjoy the fruit of your labour, it's a gift from GOD. But share the dividend, and don't be envious.

[@catholictruth102]

“And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need.”

[@gardenjoy5223]

Seems you ought to downsize.

[@KnightFel]

@@catholictruth102did super rich Abraham do the same thing? Have you given up everything and now live in a monastery with no possessions? Salvation comes by faith alone in Christ alone, not virtuous acts.

[@catholictruth102]

@@KnightFel That’s the old covenant, notable how you can’t find me an example from the new covenant. Are you Jewish?

[@catholictruth102]

@@KnightFel Faith alone absolutely does not save, and that’s an anti-gospel message. James 2:24 word for word refutes what you just said. “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.” By WORKS and NOT by faith ALONE.

[@jessyjonas4988]

“Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion [1] as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” Philippians 2

[@indefatigable6176]

Short answer, yes.

[@georgechristiansen6785]

The context of the rich young ruler, as well as the first converts in general, was the soon to happen destruction of Jerusalem and the end of national Israel, which did in fact make their wealth much more worthless in a practical sense. Without this lens there is no justification for thinking we all shouldn't give up wealth except "contradictory" scriptures. But the "contradiction" disappears in light of the above.

[@maxaplin4204]

The destruction of Jerusalem didn't take place until probably more than 40 years after Jesus spoke to the rich young ruler. It was certainly more than 35 years. That is too long a time for your point to stand. Secondly, in Luke 12:33 Jesus teaches his disciples generally: 'Sell your possessions and give to the poor.' The vast majority of Jesus' teaching in the Gospels is designed to give instruction to Christians throughout the Christian era, and this verse should surely be understood in this way. Of course, it would be going too far to conclude from this one verse that every Christian should give away all their possessions. That would conflict with many other New Testament passages. But nevertheless this verse needs to be given its proper weight.

[@georgechristiansen6785]

@@maxaplin4204 The Destruction of Jerusalem is the culmination of what started at the Resurrection of Christ, if not His birth, but the implications were far more immediate. And as a rich young RULER his wealth is intricately tied to the system that was abolished at the cross. His "stock's" value was dropping as Christ spoke the words to him. My saying "the first converts in general" was referring to everyone else who was and was becoming His disciples. Wealth tied to the land of Israel and the Temple system was becoming more and more worthless. That "the vast majority of Jesus' teaching in the Gospels is designed to give instruction to Christians throughout the Christian era, and this verse should surely be understood in this way." is neither a given, nor, even if one accepts it as such, does it demonstrate that the command to sell all we own would fall into the category of the "vast majority". You have to demonstrate that in order to be able to determine what it's "proper weight" was.

[@JQueenofMe]

Context is everything.

[@gardenjoy5223]

Depends on how you define 'wealth' for yourself. And it depends on how God asks YOU to use it. As a steward, and never the owner. Let that sink in for a bit. The wealthy can reach the wealthy for Christ. But must never cease to use their wealth to give abundantly to those in need and to also help there themselves. It goes beyond writing a check at a luxurious charity dinner party! You must be rich in good works yourself and not pay someone else to do that! Let not wealth become your downfall. All are asked to play their part in life well. Read studies about 1 Timothy 6: 17-19. Become an expert at applying it.

[@georgechristiansen6785]

"Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal?" - Act 5:4 Sure sounds like it was his land and money there.

[@SamuelKary]

Ask pastor john

[@sidwhiting665]

Having rich Christians is a great thing! Who else would we want to have wealth: pagans? Rich Christians build hospitals, churches, and donate more to charities than any other group in the world. It's also a biblically solid model. Job was rich. David was rich. Solomon was rich. In the NT, Joseph of Arimathea was rich. Lydia the dyer of purple cloth was rich, and she used her wealth to support the apostles. The riches are not the problem. The problem is our attitude toward them. So.... here's my practical take on how to check oneself. If you are a rich Christian and you are: 1) Giving at least 10% as your tithe to your church every month AND 2) Giving another 5-15% above your tithe to community charity every month AND 3) Giving to one-off causes like missions, church planting, and other community charity AND 4) Maintaining margin in your life to help friends and family generously if they are suffering through rough times AND you're doing all those things with a glad and cheerful heart, with reverence toward God, and with love toward your neighbor, odds are good that wealth doesn't have an unhealthy hold on you and you are acting as a faithful steward of God's riches.

[@gardenjoy5223]

Indeed. And for all of that a rich Christian would have to downgrade his rich lifestyle, so that he is able to provide so richly. And he would do so gladly! When you have a good (enough) car you don't need another one. Instead the rich Christian, upon learning that the car of a single mother in church broke down beyond repair, will happily provide HER anonymously with a fine car. Such are the many blessings of rich Christians. It IS better to give, than to receive. What a glorious feeling for normal Christians to shop for much needed Christmas gifts for a family in need. Or to put that envelop in their mail with enough money for the next rent. Oh, may we all listen closely to God on how He wants to relocate these riches, so no one comes short. It's an intense JOY !

[@standinginthegap7118]

Answer…. Absolutely yes. Jesus calls the those storing up treasures on earth a fool

[@jarrahe]

Luke 18:25 "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” Luke 6:24-25 "Woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation." Revelation 3:17 "For you say, 'I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing,' not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked." James 1:11 "For the sun rises with its scorching heat and withers the grass; its flower falls, and its beauty perishes. So also will the rich man fade away in the midst of his pursuits." James 5 "Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver have rusted, and their rust will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure for the last days. Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. You have lived on the earth in luxury and in pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. You have condemned, you have killed the righteous man; he does not resist you." "Be patient, therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient over it until it receives the early and the late rain. You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand."

[@jatho7760]

Wealthy people create jobs. I’ve never been hired by the poor.

[@Jake-mv7yo]

Yeah jobs that people work at for just enough money to survive on so the rich guy can pocket the rest and get richer. We can blame ronnie ray gun for that though. When Trump gets elected he is going to finish the job and truly put the working class in their place by taking us back to the gilded age.

[@stuartdavidson162]

Neither hired nor exploited by the poor...

[@CriticalThinker02]

⁠@@stuartdavidson162The poor don’t exploit others? They don’t rob, assault, or kill others for their gain and justify that behavior because they’re “poor”?

[@katyasehryn8810]

​@@stuartdavidson162 it's the evil of ungodly people's hearts that allow this to happen. There needs to be Godly people with the love of God to lead people in their companies with the heart of the Good Shepherd. It's not about poor vs rich. It's about the Kingdom of Heaven overcoming.

[@mlthornton1]

@stuartdavidson162 what do you mean by exploited?

[@Richardhernadez369]

In 2024,don't set new year financial goals without consulting a financial adviser.there expertise ensure a solid plan for success.Building wealth involves developing good habits like regular putting money away in intervals for solid investments.

[@Jayollison722]

Thanks for the advice! I'm new to financial planning and wasn't sure where to start.Any tips on finding a reliable financial adviser or resource to guide beginners?

[@frankhodges7637]

I agree, based on personal experience working with an investment advisor, I currently have $650k in a well diversified portfolio, that has experienced exponential growth. It is not about having money to invest in stocks,but also you need to be knowledgeable, persistent,and have strong hands to back it up.

[@derickgarrett7025]

How can I participate in this?I sincerely aspire to establish a secure financial future and am eager to participate.who is the driving force behind your success?.

[@juliusmcdowell4107]

Marie Ann Treloar

[@juliusmcdowell4107]

She has been my counselor and coach.

[@supersmart671]

I heard John Macarthur say that the widow who gave all she had was being irresponsible 😢😢😢😢😢

[@johndibert5509]

I doubt he said that

[@KnightFel]

No you didn’t.

[@fado792]

Acts 2:44

[@PeterbFree]

Each person should be lead by the Holy Spirit in all things. Clearly anyone driven by other things is on the wrong path, whatever those other things may be

[@optomix3988]

There is a difference in being wealth and acting rich. Nothing wrong with wealth. Acting rich is dumb. There are plenty of wealthy people not physically able to serve, but can write a check and have fun doing it. “Live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else.”

[@gardenjoy5223]

That quote is not in the Bible. The Bible calls us stewards and not owners. The Bible tells us to give from the start.

[@optomix3988]

I would look into Finical Peace University and the basic principles are based on stewardship and giving from the very beginning of the program.

[@gardenjoy5223]

@@optomix3988 The Bible is reference enough for me. And clear enough. Thank you.

[@VegasMoe]

Did King Soloman downgrade his lifestyle?

[@Avogadros_number]

Solomon also summoned demons and lusted after many women. Using him as an example of how you should live doesn’t exactly track.

[@VegasMoe]

@@Avogadros_number you are correct. He did in fact come back to GOD and conducted himself appropriately. If the LORD gives you all the ability to live a particular lifestyle (in accordance with his laws) is that a bad thing?

[@catholictruth102]

Appalling how you have to refer to an Israelite king instead of to Jesus’s commands or the behaviors of Christians in the NT. “And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need.”

[@VegasMoe]

@@catholictruth102 Jesus is a King. As a matter of fact, the KING of Kings.

[@gardenjoy5223]

@@VegasMoe Jesus gave Everything up, so you might have an inheritance in Heaven, waiting for you. What are YOU giving up, so that others share in that inheritance in heaven? And you ought to know by now, that the Old Testament with the Old Covenant with earthly Israel, who got earthly possessions, IS by now overtaken by the New Covenant. HOW did the KING of Kings live on this earth? Did He live in a palace? Did he ride in a chariot? No, He didn't even own a home and He walked.

[@andyhopely4739]

Of course...

[@LastDays77]

Yes, of course they should. If anyone is offended, they are like the rich young ruler who asked Jesus what he should do to inherit eternal life. Jesus said don’t store up riches on earth but in heaven. Where your wealth is your heart is. People always try to dance around this and make up reasons why it’s ok to be wealthy. Stop making excuses and follow Jesus. Simple

[@dannyruiz3329]

The greater the blessing, the greater responsibility. If a believer wants to have more than enough then fine, but they have to match their desire with service. More money means = spending more on outreach, church planting, job creation, etc. You can vacation at Dubai, but make sure you're working hard to spread the kingdom when you arent vacationing.

[@RoryRayOSullivan]

Looking at his disciples, Christ Jesus said: “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. Blessed are you who hunger now, for you will be satisfied. Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh. Blessed are you when people hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man. “Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven. For that is how their ancestors treated the prophets. “But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort. Woe to you who are well fed now, for you will go hungry. Woe to you who laugh now, for you will mourn and weep. Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you, for that is how their ancestors treated the false prophets. 🙏🏾

[@jimpemberton]

God uses the wealthy for our benefit. There are people who are gifted at managing money. They may use this gift well or they may not. Those who use it well contribute to a healthy economy. Those who do not may contribute to an oppressive economy. God knows and will provide for his purposes in any case. If God hasn't blessed you with the ability to manage money well, manage what you have been given to the best of your ability and thank God for his provision. Likely, you have what you have because a wealthy person invested in the company you work for or bought something from them. Give thanks for God's provision through wealthy people.

[@davidasingleton8943]

Our money is not ours so if we are spending lavishly and not being content that’s a problem. Our money is for Kingdom affairs. When you have 3, 4, 5, 6 cars, a house with 10 rooms for show… him for one person or a family of two then that’s a problem. Let’s not pretend like we don’t know the line! That list is just the beginning.

[@gardenjoy5223]

Agreed. But where IS that line? It always seems to be just a little further, than where we are, comparing ourselves to people, who are richer. And what kind of car is enough? For the 'things' used in the USA are ridiculous in size and use much gasoline: money spent foolishly. Let's compare ourselves with those who are poorer. Let's make sure we receive newsletters from missionaries among the poor. So we use the money for real needs and not for perceived wants.

[@Chris_A.]

If your wealth brings glory to God then He will fulfill you with more wealth. If your wealth does not bring glory to God then He will fulfill others with your wealth. Wealth is the accumulation of rewards in all its variety.

[@gardenjoy5223]

Too bad that the apostles didn't understand this... Or Jesus Himself... As a Christian, who wants to live fruitful, there is ONE promise, that will fulfill itself with certainty: "Indeed, all who want to live in a godly way in Christ Jesus will be persecuted." Are you not persecuted? Oops... Look at how the apostle Paul suffered. Read the first letter of Peter. Understand that your inheritance is reserved for you in Heaven.

[@Chris_A.]

​@@gardenjoy5223 "I will show him [Paul] how much he must suffer for my name." Acts 6:13, NIV. "...our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us...to an inheritance...reserved in heaven for you," 1 Peter 1:3-4, NKJV. "Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: So shall thy barns burst out with new wine." Proverbs 3:9-10, KJV. "If you fully obey the Lord your God...The LORD will send a blessing on your barns and on everything you put your hand to. The LORD your God will bless you in the land he is giving you." Deuteronomy 28:1a, 8, NIV. "For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away." Matthew 25:29, ESV. "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to reward each one as his work deserves." Revelation 22:12, NASB. "Yes, and everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution." 2 Timothy 3:12, NLT. "...Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more." Luke 12:48b, ESV. "...we [who are teachers] will be judged by a higher standard [because we have assumed greater accountability and more condemnation if we teach incorrectly]." James 3:1b, AMP. "Everyone who hears these things I say and obeys them is like a wise man. The wise man built his house on rock. It rained hard and the water rose. The winds blew and hit that house. But the house did not fall, because the house was built on rock." Matthew 7:24-25, ICB. "When the storm has swept by, the wicked are gone, but the righteous stand firm forever." Proverbs 10:25, NIV. Are not all sinners persecuted? Oops... So wonderful that the apostles did understand this... And Jesus Himself...

[@Truthseeking717]

Scripture says, just as Jesus is in Heaven right now, so are we on the earth. Jesus is infinitely Glorified with luxury and wealth flowing out of His ears. As an Infinite Son of God, providing luxury for yourself should not hinder your ability to endlessly give to others.

[@gardenjoy5223]

No, that's not at all what the bulk of Scripture teaches. It teaches us, that one fine day in HEAVEN we will have all our desires met; they cannot be sinful there anymore. But here on earth this Scripture still applies: " If we have food and covering, with these we shall be content." 1 Timothy 6: 8. Does your kind of belief stand that test?

[@rogueproductions9011]

If you are smart enough to accumulate wealth along with God’s favor, I believe it is smart to preserve it and continue to make more of it through investments, because giving consistently every year will ultimately equate to more towards the kingdom vs if you gave all your wealth away at once.

[@cv2010u]

John 16:23-24 23On that day you will ask nothing of me.[c] Very truly, I tell you, if you ask anything of the Father in my name, he will give it to you.[d] 24Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete. Joy in the lord.

[@RenewalCreations]

Unless it's an idol or the Lord tells you to sell all you own, use your wealth to bless others in the body and who are in need. Wealth is not our God, but it can be a blessing. If you have multiple houses, use it or loan it to people who need a place to stay or for a church retreat or whatever. Wealth can be a blessing if you use for the Lord. If you have an airplane or own an airline, you can fly ministers or missionaries overseas. Not everyone has assets like that, so use it for the Lord to help others.

[@gardenjoy5223]

But what are the accumulated costs of such an extravagance like an airplane??? And can't the ministers just fly coach, like the rest of us? Why does a trip, that can cost 900 dollars, all of a sudden cost 7000 dollars, because we have to explain to ourselves, that we can have such extreme wealth, if only we use it to fly ministers around every once in a while??? Is that what Jesus would have done?! Tell me, did he walk everywhere, or was he in a luxurious carriage, or even on horseback? He walked! Pay for coach for the ministers and use the remaining 6100 dollars for something to alleviate a pressing need of the people he is sent to!

[@garyjames-ij4fr]

The fact there are scriptures addressing the rich among us tells us being rich is not a problem for christians because they are rich.

[@youngrevival9715]

Exactly

[@catholictruth102]

“And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need.”

[@gardenjoy5223]

You might actually want to read those Scriptures. Most are a dire warning against the trap of your wealth! And when a person IS rich, we know what he has to do with that wealth: 1 Timothy 6: 17-18 Instruct them A. to do good (seize each opportunity for it), B. to be rich in good works (so you yourself work in that soup kitchen, cutting the onions), C. to be generous (give what's needed, not what you had in mind) and D. ready to share, so lend your car to the single mother to do her groceries and use your spare rooms for a family, who is losing their home. Now elaborate on that and get accomplished.

[@wlonsdale1]

No. Who are we to tell God what to do?

[@vitawater4259]

If anything, it is a sign of wisdom to not display your wealth. Privacy and simple living is a shield of protection for the wealthy.

[@gardenjoy5223]

A shield from frowning humans. But how will one stand before a frowning God? Do you have your priorities all mixed up? It's not about being wealthy, it is about the ability to give abundantly. "We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers and sisters. But whoever has worldly goods and sees his brother or sister in need, and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God remain in him? Little children, let’s not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth." 1 John 3: 16-18. Also James 2: 14-26. May you excel in that! 💜

[@vitawater4259]

@@gardenjoy5223 No one is questioning giving to someone in need. The problem is someone who worked very hard to acquire wealth does not need to deal with the problem of being told that they have to fix the world's problems. The wealthy do not need the false guilt trips of being obligated to help the poor. The rich do not need to be taken advantage of.

[@michaelhellwege4129]

Define rich

[@yauchen6939]

What about American mega church pastors? Are they followers of Christ?

[@gardenjoy5223]

Read the gospel of Matthew and then lay their individual lives against that line. What is the outcome?

[@IcyDeath91]

Why worry yourself with judgement of others?

[@Jake-mv7yo]

I'm a rich atheist and live an extremely modest lifestyle. My house is less than 1% my net worth. The way I see it the little house I live in should be all anyone ever needed.

[@triatlasco959]

Much respect brother

[@OneHighwayWalker]

Without salvation, does it matter? Your lifestyle won't get you eternal life with your Creator. We have all offended Him, and owe a debt we can never pay. Only through humility, repentance, and the free gift of salvation through Messiah will you have anything of true value. Your comment, unfortunately, shows pride in your wealth and lifestyle, and judgment against others who have a different kind of house, possibly for a very good reason.

[@Jake-mv7yo]

If this is true that means about 2/3 of people alive today would be going to the bad place. We don't necessarily know much about it other than it is "away from God's light" whatever that means. In my interpretation of Christian mythology I see God as the bad guy anyway. What kind of person goes around demanding worship and praise all the time? A dictator. If you want to spend an eternity singing songs to your celestial Kim Jong Un you go right ahead I'll take my chances with Satan and the billions of other people down there.@@OneHighwayWalker

[@rebbrown7140]

​@Jake-mv7yo The problem is two things. First, you're gonna worship something even if it's just yourself. You can't turn that part of you off. Second, God is the source and sustainer of all life and goodness. There is not an alternative source nor could there be. Therefore, if you worship anyone or anything else, you are pointing yourself in a direction away from life, truth, and beauty. Since God loves you and cares about you, he is trying to do what is best for you and point you back to him. However, he will not force you because he desires intimacy with you and he knows that control destroys intimacy. Knowing this, one realizes that if God acted any differently, he would be evil (i.e. anti-life). Please reconsider the choice you are making! God bless you.

[@Jake-mv7yo]

I am an atheist which means I don't believe in any god and I certainly wouldn't believe in something as specific as the Christian God. The whole idea of a god just doesn't mesh with my brain. I guess that is what faith is. I have faith that there are no gods and no afterlife. This is all there is. There is no purpose and life is meaningless. To me the idea of an afterlife is itself evil because it is used to devalue the importance of our lives now. It is deeply disturbing that people are living terrible lives and it is being justified because the suffering will pay off later. The purpose of Christianity is social control and having willing workforce who will accept harsh conditions. @@rebbrown7140

[@Truthseeking717]

Jesus’ garment which the soldiers threw lots over so as to keep it in one piece took about 5 years to craft due to the fact that it was made without seam. It was a single piece. It was too valuable to tear. In today’s terms, it may have cost $150,000. I arrive at that number by multiplying average annual income in America ($30,000) by the 5 years it took to make such a garment. God is infinite, meaning that He has the capability of providing the best for Himself without hindering His ability to supply endlessly for others. If God can turn water into wine, infinitely multiply fish and loaves, and produce gold from the mouth of a fish, why wouldn’t He provide the best for Himself without hindering His ability to give endlessly?

[@gardenjoy5223]

Well, that's Everything BUT truthseeking. First, incomes were very low in that time and people lived very modest lives accordingly. And where does it state exactly that it took 5 years to craft it? And where does it state, that was all that person ever did and not did in the sparingly spare time? What it does state, is that when you personally receive a nice gift, you are not required to sell it, but may enjoy it. For the rest: be content with food and covering.

[@user-mj5bl5dy1b]

Rich and Christian. That does seem to be a bit of an enigma or you cannot be christian

[@ericgonzales4979]

The only exception to this should be like real rocket scientists or surgeons ya know? lol other than that I don’t really see how you can be “rich” and not feel guilty 🤷‍♂️

[@KnightFel]

Nothing wrong with being a Christian who is also rich lol. Being poor isn’t a virtue, a poor man can sin living in envy, a rich man can sin living in greed. If God grants you riches, you are to be a good steward and use those funds for your family and glory of God. Money isn’t evil, the love of it is.

[@garyjames-ij4fr]

Abraham, the father of the faithful, was very rich according to the scriptures.

[@JQueenofMe]

@@KnightFel Context is everything.

[@ericgonzales4979]

@@garyjames-ij4fr so was Job

[@reelmandan]

The LORD chose to give Solomon riches, even though he didn’t ask for it. He also restored Jobs wealth more than what he first had. “Matter” does matter to God. He knows what blesses man. Man chooses to make a big deal out of it. It is the love of money that is evil, not possessing it. How we chose to use it is between us and God.

[@reelmandan]

Was God wrong about giving Solomon & Job wealth? What about Deuteronomy 8:18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth… And man contemplates what is right and wrong about is it right to have “wealth”. Maybe argue that up with God.

[@catholictruth102]

That was the old covenant, the new covenant has no such example except the command to give things away, as the followers of Christ did in Acts.

[@gardenjoy5223]

Are you still living under the Old Covenant? Are you a convert to Judaism? Do you believe all is about material wealth on this earth? Or are you living under the New Covenant? Where Jesus calls us time and again to give up all and everything to follow Him as a true disciple? Where your true inheritance is laid up for you in heaven? Where the one thing, that IS promised to you, is that you will be hated and persecuted, if indeed you wish to be fruitful in Christ??? In the New Covenant you are not even the owner, but just the steward! And you Will answer to God for how you abused it!

[@reelmandan]

⁠what do your questions have to do with the material blessings of God?

[@Letusprayandfast]

Jesus step out of the rich of God to be as us So we should be able to save by the blood of Jesus

[@maxaplin4204]

Yes, and we are told to follow this example in Phil 2:5.

[@jessyjonas4988]

“For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might become rich.” 2Corinthians 8:9

[@moremoneymorefreedom6725]

100%. If you aren't rich, Jesus became poor in vain. Just like if you decide to go to hell instead of heaven, in your case Jesus would have died in vain. And most non-believers will tell you that Jesus was poor. The Bible clearly states that He was rich.

[@gardenjoy5223]

Yes, and according to the Bible, that richness is laid up for you as an inheritance in HEAVEN! NOT here on EARTH. But if you happen to be rich, fully apply 1 Timothy 6: 18 "Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share". Which means: A. do good on every occasion you get, B. do those good works yourself and cut those onions in the soup kitchen yourself, C. give according to the needs and not according to your plan, and D. share the use of your own things and space, so lend your car out and let the family in need use Your spare rooms. The wealthy then and now desperately need to learn humility and respect for other people.

[@moremoneymorefreedom6725]

@@gardenjoy5223If your "god" isn't wise enough to do what his word says and make you rich here (where it matters and where I need it, because everyone will be rich in heaven) then you are serving a dead god.

[@gardenjoy5223]

@@moremoneymorefreedom6725 My God is wise enough to know, that people are very easily tempted to serve Money as their Master, instead of living out of Love. The freedom God gives, is one of living out of His love and learning to trust Him. Those are not always easy lessons for people. They can be real hard even! Yet, we don't decide the 'curriculum' of what God wants to teach us. Jesus Christ clearly told us to pick up our cross and deny ourselves, if we want to be a true disciple of Him. Last time I looked, a cross was not a thing of pleasure, but rather of torture. It's the ultimate test. Before I gave my life to God, I was a selfish and greedy person. That's the first thing He started to work on in me. He made me into someone, who loves to give, as He Himself is the greatest Giver ever. This earth functions but as a kind of sorting terrain for souls. It's either self or God, serving money or God. You cannot serve the both of them. Are you going to let yourself down in forsaking heaven, for not taking the winning entrance ticket to it seriously? It's like you worship the 2 million, only to forsake the 2 billion. It seems you don't know well enough what His Word says. There was the Old Covenant with earthly Israel and there is a New Covenant with the church. The first concentrated on riches on earth, the second on riches in the Kingdom of Heaven. In the first you had to just be physically born. In the second you have to be born again of the Spirit of God. Until then, the wise things of God look foolish in your eyes. And indeed, you testify of that. Which means you are not even at the starting point. May God help you find the starting point. It starts with acknowledging, that He is more than you are.

[@jessyjonas4988]

Let’s hear the head of the church For you are recognizing [more clearly] the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [His astonishing kindness, His generosity, His gracious favor], that though He was rich, yet for your sake He became poor, so that by His poverty you might become rich (abundantly blessed).

[@gardenjoy5223]

And we KNOW, that all these riches are an inheritance waiting for us in HEAVEN. Not here on earth. Here on earth we are to forsake all things for Christ's sake.

[@Christian-rv6yh]

It's a question which can only be asked in a non-communist world !

[@kwokleongawyong2895]

Justify greed snd use the lord's name in vain.

[@marklundberg2471]

We have problem with wealth Christian’s and poor ones. Yes, there are some Christian’s you might think are greedy and others very wealthy and choose to live a more moderate lifestyle giving more to the Kingdom. Then you have poor greedy persons outside and inside the church. The greedy poor demand that the Wealthy Christian Lives Poor. God will help the wealthy determine how much they should give. But, the poor greedy Christian needs to check their motives. The church in general only 2 to 6% give. Heard a statistic that if every church member who could work was at poverty level and gave 10% of income there would not be one hurting person. I know that there are some who Believe Tithing Went Out The Door In New Testament Like Apostles and Prophets.

[@gardenjoy5223]

Tithing was replaced by us now being not owners, but stewards of God's money. The tithing was the least principle and the Jews were required to give more than that! Every special occasion had it's own offerings on top of that. Jesus looks at the heart first. There was a widow who gave very little in the offering in the temple. Yet, it was of her poverty, that she still chose to give at least something, and she would eat less for it. Jesus complimented her giving as the most valuable. In general, we can do a lot more, than we do.

[@marklundberg2471]

Abraham started the tithe by giving King Melchizedek 10% of everything he owned. That 10% was not required by Melchizedek. The tithe was not stopped in the New Testament. We are to be Stewards of what God has given. We need to be giving the tithe plus to take care of our church ministries such as missions. We need to pay our pastors better than we do. I can relate because I am a PK and I saw how churches treated my dad. We were in one church that never gave him a raise. Didn’t even say Pastor we can’t Give you a raise and didn’t even say here is $25.00 to let you know we appreciate you. If you don’t tithe you can’t even be a Good Stewart. That is why tithes and gifts have never changed. You can’t have

[@gardenjoy5223]

@@marklundberg2471 Guess you understood me pretty wrong. When I wrote we are not owners, but stewards, the result is the 100% belongs to God! He lets us use what we need for food and covering. He also likes to give us extra, but we must never forget, that He is the owner. Sorry you so clearly missed that. Thought you knew what the word steward meant.

[@marklundberg2471]

I didn’t miss it at all you did. You maybe a good Stewart but, 90+% are not. How do you think we pay pastors missionaries pay church bills when you just choose how much you want to. Tithing never left. Question can you live off 90% + gifts Etc.? God has always owned everything. Do you determine what your going to do as a Stewart or do you listen for God’s Instructions?

[@gardenjoy5223]

@@marklundberg2471 Man, I gave a whole house away! Among other things. As a non-Christian I was greedy and always thought I didn't have enough. That's the first thing God fixed in me: He made me a happy giver from the heart. Why do you think I write such a thing, when I don't mean it for myself? Tithing was swallowed up in the much more evasive 'everything is God's now'. But you may start with the 10%. As long as you don't hesitate to go beyond, as soon as God puts it on your heart. And I pray right now, that He will, teaching you the new principle, which is not of the law of the flesh, but of the law of the Spirit. I even wrote a small book about giving (not in English), for God is the greatest Giver ever and He is our example of giving of Everything. Not just money or material things, but of your time, of your love, of your energy, of your attention, of your devotion to problem solving. So we took in our own house the kids, who were in trouble with their own families. And we took in some homeless people. And when I wanted to become more accomplished in helping people, we moved to the bedroom with the size of a closet as to rent other rooms out to pay for my studies out of the rent money. There's so much we have we can give of! It makes the world a better place and again - it is the very heart of God, of love, to rejoice in giving and to acknowledge all is His. Truly.

[@Jjj53214]

Someone with $100 million gives away $1 million. I guess that person is generous. Hmmmm?

[@gardenjoy5223]

You need to understand some basics of economics here. When someone owns a business, that's worth a 100 million dollars, that doesn't mean the net revenue, net income in a year is the same. Sometimes big companies even lose a lot of money. Sometimes, after all costs and taxes, the net revenue might be even smaller than 1 million, or even 500,000. A company needs buildings to produce and sell things. Some need big buildings for that. So many costs with those! But if his net income in a year would have been a 100 million dollars, then giving just 1 million away would not be generous, as a percentage.

[@TheAwills88]

But also why do these southern seminary dudes simetimes not actually answer the question? John Piper did:)

[@gardenjoy5223]

He did though! But not as a 'one-haircut-for-all', but according to Scriptures. Listen to it again and again, applying it to you yourself in your situation, and see how you may be used by God to bless others :)

[@wataboutya9310]

Wow! The keyboard theologians are thick here!

[@mrnoedahl]

Great job my hillbilly friend.

[@apachewraith]

Simply stewards.

[@Jjj53214]

What about multimillionaire Christian preachers who make their money from the donations of others?

[@gardenjoy5223]

That's not good, unless these wealthy others purposefully wanted to bless them with their donations. But in most cases, there's something Very Fishy going on here and it stinks! There are some Christians however, who have different ways of income and are rich because of that. What they do with that wealth still ought to be in line with the New Covenant guidelines: we are not the owner, just the steward. Many people fail miserably here. In short: if you appreciate your preacher, do NOT give him large donations for himself, that he comes into temptation. You want to give him a car? Let it be a normal one. You, as a very rich believer, want to bless him with a house? Let it be a comfortable one, but modest. Don't tempt your pastor! Rather donate a hospital with an annual budget in a impoverished area in the world! Rather invest in a free seminary for new pastors to be well versed when teaching others. Too many false teachings everywhere, nowadays.

[@jacobpitman322]

Such a stupid question.

[@KZSoze]

Jesus said give it to the poor, period. That “person” he told to do that, asked Jesus how to get to heaven. Jesus outlined 6 commandments, and said to be perfect on earth, give it to the poor. Why is it that Jesus told everyone how to be perfect, and I’ve never met a single Christian who even tried? There’s so many Christian churches in America, and they have so much wealth, that they could feed everyone in need, adopt every last child in need, etc. Yet, they don’t.

[@davidj8384]

This is where Christianity and Politics cross. They are not the same. Please stop treating them so.

[@gardenjoy5223]

He did not do that! He merely showed us some fitting Bible verses.

[@Letusprayandfast]

Only a person who owns a church we call a pastor is king of the church first Lady can be rich We work to pay the tax by the law of the Bible and pay what ever pastor asks as a love offering to him

[@gardenjoy5223]

That's weird! I'd just keep the guidelines of the Bible instead of what you wrote here.

[@donthomas4793]

To answer the question, no, Rich Christians do not have to downgrade their lifestyle.

[@catholictruth102]

Yes, they should. Scripture is clear. The covetous go to hell. “And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need.”

[@gardenjoy5223]

That's not the answer, that was given here. In fact, usually Christians will want to use their riches in a different way. And for that they will happily downgrade their lifestyle. But if they don't, it's proof that they in fact aren't even real Christians at all. Not according to 1 John 3: 16-18 and James 2: 14-26. The world at large and many Christians are in dire needs. How do you excel in coming to their aid? Or do you prefer not to read the missionaries' newsletters, to avoid feeling convicted?

[@benwilliams3539]

Jesus said God calls for mercy not sacrifice.

[@elusive4072]

He also said to store up our treasure in heaven where no thieves steal and no moths eat.

[@Zorcon741]

How would you characterize the statement, "pick up your cross and follow me,"?

[@benwilliams3539]

@elusive4072 and who are you to decide what's an okay amount of wealth? Someone poor will say you're wealthy. So are you sinning by having a computer or phone to get on KZbin?

[@benwilliams3539]

@Zorcon741 there's nothing wrong woth having money so long as you follow the Tennants and Jesus's directions. There's nothing holy about being poor. You're more wealthy than 90% of people on the planet.

[@donaldkeith139]

I have a question that's slightly off topic: what, specifically, do you believe will save us so we can return to Heaven?

[@ABO-Destiny]

Its not ruch christians and poor christians it should be rich europeans and poor europeans. Christianity has expanded beyond europes borders vast and wide, i dont think people properly realise the implications of that when talking about christianity in the same breadth as white europeans. Europe had and has a social structure and tradition associated with it and it is in a different wavelength than most places of the world who had taken up Christianity later on. Europe must care for its poor and have nots ,there cannot be any other way out. For the rest of christian world the approach should be local as their history was also different.

[@gardenjoy5223]

The Bible does not support this view. We are all ONE body of Christ and we all need to care for one another. Some countries have had the benefit of better laws to protect the poorer people. That's a good thing, usually. But there's also a lot of abuse and entitlement with that, which is not good. We, as Christians, ought to bless each other with all we are and have. Strive to be a blessing to others. Strive to love God above all else and our neighbors as ourselves. In this world, we are close neighbors to most everyone. Just a message on the internet or a phone call away. When we know of needs, and we are not in need ourselves, than we ought to do what's good for all, but especially for our brothers and sisters in Christ. If Christians only learned to really obey just in this regard, the world would be a different place.

[@ABO-Destiny]

@@gardenjoy5223 I dont know. I prefer to hold my own opinions on these matters

[@ABO-Destiny]

@@gardenjoy5223 I hope you are well aware an Australian christian priest was burn alive along with his children inside India back in te 90s. Even as recent as 2021 or 2022 an indian christian priest was virtually murdered inside his prison cell through denial of service. I do not know which part of the world you are from, i strongly believe in some parts of the world at least people need no longer just go out and sacrifice their lives for idea of truth or belief. I do not know how you people deal with that outside the ideas of sacrificial lambs and other things. My view of life of jesus christ comes from my readings and watching of different types of opinions ranging from those of priests, biblical scholars (my guess) non christians and influence of my past offcourse ,maybe what i genuinely feel about those times is not in alignment with mainstream christianity but well i prefer to stick to my views unless i find credible reason to believe otherwise.

[@ABO-Destiny]

Be aware i have no intention of changing anyone's belief or ideas, neither to influence anyone, i said what i feel strongly

[@ABO-Destiny]

@@gardenjoy5223 I have re-read your kind message many times , yes i do not disagree with you , certainly not, but i do not get an answer or a solution when incidents like those i had mentioned happens and keeps on happening and not just on christians but majorly on muslims with visibly very little reasons behind that continuing ugliness and then i watch western christian or secular countries having christian fabric continuing to do arms deal with those same countries. I must be nuts if i do not conclude there is something terribly wrong somewhere or maybe too much snaky policies and politics are involved where the serpents head is already lost from sight by people who hoped to keep their faith in human righteousness irrespective of faith.

[@jenna2431]

NO. Not a downgrade. Sell it ALL and give to the poor. That's what your book says.

[@Jake-mv7yo]

I always wondered what people are supposed to do when nobody is poor anymore haha. To me it seems like Christianity depends on poverty and suffering to exist forever.

[@robfirestone6158]

It doesn’t say that to each individual Christian. See Luke 19:1-10.

[@tomlorenz4344]

Jesus was unequivocal, sell everything give the money to the poor, and follow him. Anything less is rationalization

[@user-zo2ge3oe8d]

This is such a false teaching

[@gardenjoy5223]

No, it is excellent teaching. We weigh the Scriptures with each other and this is the outcome: a wealthy Christian will gladly do as commanded in 1 Timothy 6: 17-18 " Instruct those who are rich in this present world not to be conceited or to set their hope on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly supplies us with all things to enjoy. Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share".

[@BenSmith-fu7ir]

Tax the churches.

[@jay1871]

Most will close if so.

[@moremoneymorefreedom6725]

Why? The churches manage their money better than the government. We should give more to churches to lower our tax bill. Everyone will win that way. Government is horrible at money management.

[@gardenjoy5223]

That's stupid! They live to give. They are a vital element in society. They teach people to be good citizens in being honest and kind to one another.

[@seymourbutts4654]

Was Jesus wealthy ?

[@matthewjbarron]

Yes. He was (and is) rich in grace and mercy.

[@seymourbutts4654]

@@matthewjbarron The other kind of wealthy you know the one everybody really cares about.

[@matthewjbarron]

@@seymourbutts4654 Aah! Well, material wealth, Jesus didn't make much exclusive use of. (Even the clothing on his back was gambled away for him.) Other than that, of course, he is Lord, so he owns, like, pretty much ... everything! Our model and pattern of course, is his service and humility.

[@fado792]

Acts 2:44

[@matthewjbarron]

That’s descriptive not prescriptive. For comparison see Acts 5:4.

[@fado792]

@@matthewjbarron Yeah. actually you cab do what you want. Even buy slaves: Leviticus 25-44, Its a shit book.