Should the Government Provide Health Insurance to All Americans? A Soho Forum Debate

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Күн бұрын

Gerald Friedman of the University of Massachusetts says yes, while the Pacific Research Institute's Sally Pipes says no.
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"The COVID-19 pandemic makes it all the more urgent for the U.S. to install a system of Medicare for All."
That was the topic of an online Soho Forum debate held on August 19, 2020. Arguing in favor of the proposition was Gerald Friedman, a professor of economics at the University of Massachusetts and the author of the book, The Case for Medicare for All. He went up against Sally Pipes, president of the Pacific Research Institute and author of False Premise, False Promise: The Disastrous Reality of Medicare for All. Soho Forum director Gene Epstein moderated.
The Soho Forum runs Oxford-style debates, meaning the audience voted on the proposition before and after the presenters' remarks. The winner is the person who moves more votes in his or her direction. At the start of the evening, 20 percent of the Zoom audience agreed that the pandemic furthered the case for Medicare for All, 60 percent were against, and 20 percent were undecided. At the end of the debate, 27 percent agreed with the proposition, 73 percent disagreed, and no one was left undecided. Because she gained the most votes, Sally Pipes was declared the winner.
The Soho Forum, sponsored by the Reason Foundation, is a monthly debate series at the SubCulture Theater in Manhattan's East Village. Debates will remain online until New York allows public events again. For information on how to watch and vote in the next online Soho Forum debate, go here.
Produced by John Osterhoudt.
Photo: Molly Adams/Flickr; Jeff Malet Photography/Newscom; U.S. Pacific Fleet/Flickr; Bob Owen/ZUMA Press/Newscom; Vanessa Carvalho/ZUMA Press/Newscom; Official U.S. Navy Page/Flickr
Full text and links: reason.com/vid...

Пікірлер: 560

@kathleenronald5941 4 жыл бұрын

It's high time y'all started realising the govt doesn't give a shit about us. The earlier we started putting all this energy into investing and making your life better, The better for us all

@Admin-nf2yj 4 жыл бұрын

I don't think there's anyone who doesn't invest these days. Cause there are many things you can Invest in. Stock, crypto, Forex, house, silver gold etc.

@EllioTrades_Officiall 4 жыл бұрын

@@Admin-nf2yj that's for people who know how to trade. What of people who don't?

@Admin-nf2yj 4 жыл бұрын

@@EllioTrades_Officiall there are brokers/Expert traders and platforms out there who trade for people. It's just like investing in a company or buying shares only this time it's on a pay as you go basis.

@Admin-nf2yj 4 жыл бұрын

@@EllioTrades_Officiall I have a colleague who has a platform where she offers mentorship classes and also trade for her students so that way. They can earn money as they take their classes.

@Admin-nf2yj 4 жыл бұрын

@Mason Joy Mrs Carine Stewart. She's an expert. When I was still a student under her. I invested $2k at first and she paid me $12k every ten days. Isn't that amazing?

@danynes4710 4 жыл бұрын

Is he actually arguing that more government control will increase nurse time for patients? As a nurse I can promise that is NOT true. Every time we have some new thing we have to chart or fill out it’s because of government.

@jameswhite3415 4 жыл бұрын

@Danye S Fortunately almost every country in the developed world has Medicare for all. So they have more time for patients, cost less, higher life expectancies and in general better care. These are facts not opinions as they are measurable.

@danynes4710 4 жыл бұрын

@@jameswhite3415 I don’t know about other countries’ regulations, but OUR government loves to waste our time with regulations and paperwork.

@danynes4710 4 жыл бұрын

@@jameswhite3415 as a result my 12 hour shifts would easily be 16 hour days.

@jameswhite3415 4 жыл бұрын

@@danynes4710 So America would not be the first country to implement medicare fore all. American would be the last rich nation to implement medicare for all(or something similar) In all these cases the opposite of what you are claiming happened. Alot of that excessive paperwork is due to insurance companies not wanting to pay etc.

@danynes4710 4 жыл бұрын

@@jameswhite3415 no. The case managers always dealt the the insurance companies. A good portion of the time I had extra paperwork was specifically for Medicare. And usually once Medicare required something, we had to do it for everybody. My point was even about the financial cost or the quality. I was simply pointing out something I have dealt with FIRST HAND!!

@HungryGuyStories 4 жыл бұрын

Whether you have Socialist medicine or Capitalist medicine, there will always be people who "fall through the cracks" and are denied essential medical care, but for different reasons under each system. Utopia isn't one of the options.

@HungryGuyStories 4 жыл бұрын

Also, your life expectancy is inversely proportional to how fat you are, not how much your country pays per capita for health care. Americans?!?!

@praisekek181 4 жыл бұрын

I as an American agree, you have to pay for your burger and your own medical operations after your own decisions, I shouldn't have to pay for your food drugs that cost me more than heiroine and are probably even deadlier

@HungryGuyStories 4 жыл бұрын

@@praisekek181 Thank you! I expected I was gonna get tons of hate dumped on me from Americans. Cheers! :-)

@artemiasalina1860 4 жыл бұрын

@@HungryGuyStories >I expected I was gonna get tons of hate dumped on me from Americans. You tried to pick a fight and nobody took the bait. Good for you, I guess. Questions: Does your country's government recommend a diet high in carbohydrates like the USDA did/does in which is/was mandated to be taught in government schools? Does your country's government put tariffs on cane sugar as a "sin tax" to try to manipulate the population into not eating sugar, but because there is a market demand for sweets, producers switched to high fructose corn syrup (which is much more unhealthy than cane sugar) to keep prices down in order to supply that demand?

@fredashay 4 жыл бұрын

@@HungryGuyStories As a, ahem, "chubby" American, I don't disagree with anything you said :-)

@st89 4 жыл бұрын

As I once read from someone else online, if government started mandating children be sent to school at 6 months of age, within a generation people will think they couldn't learn to walk unless the government taught them too. It's the same logic with healthcare, if people have lived their entire life with the government providing healthcare for them, they could never imagine a system where they took on the responsibility themselves. That's why foreign countries with government run programs supposedly are much more happy with their healthcare because they can't imagine an alternative (or have had depictions of the US system that are grossly inaccurate). That's also why the US is less happy with their system because we have so much more in the way of choice. It's human nature to be unsatisfied with something when you have so many alternatives vs when you have just one choice given by the government.

@alexh2790 4 жыл бұрын

Are you inferring that other countries didn't have populations that pre existed single payer healthcare. I look after seniors for a living and I've never heard one say "I miss paying for healthcare".

@st89 4 жыл бұрын

@@alexh2790 Of course people who don''t (or no longer) bear the cost of a system are going to enjoy getting the benefits of it. No one is going to complain about that. People will notice though when taxes go up, wait times get longer, and options are far more limited. Other countries have the view that that's just the way things should be, Americans don't. We want choice, we want the best service we can get, and we want to choose how our money is spent. This is what makes America different - we value individual freedom.

@alexh2790 4 жыл бұрын

@@st89 Fair enough, but from the estimates I've seen the increase in taxes would be less than what the average person pays out in premiums, plus you wouldn't have any co-pays to worry about. I'm not sure what you mean by options being limited though. Also, health costs are about double per capita in the States and that's in a system that doesn't even cover everyone.

@letsbecomebillionaires-bks3975 3 жыл бұрын

The best example I can think of is guns. I was anti-gun for the longest time, and when I began my research, I realized that guns used to be IN SCHOOLS. Kids brought their guns to school to go hunting after. The NRA was in schools teaching shooting. Back then, if you asked students if they felt uncomfortable with guns in school, they would have obviously said no since it was around them. However, now, I can't imagine any student saying they would be okay with students bringing ARs to school to go hunting after. Why?? because they never lived with that being a reality.

@Bill_Woo 4 жыл бұрын

The start and end of discussion is *scarcity.* Because it "costs money to do it" - regardless of any indignation regarding cost level - there's not enough money for it to be unlimited, it is SCARCE. So some will get the plush edges; some will get the rest, and some will get the minimum or none. Accordingly, we as a civilized species have a fair and objective system for arbitrating who gets scarce items, or the plush edges. It's called "money." Like it or not, it determines who has personal swimming pools, healthier food, and more-than-minimal health care. It is the ONLY fair way.

@Bill_Woo 4 жыл бұрын

And worst of all, substituting the objective, fair and legal process called "money" for determining who gets scarce items, Good Lord above, do not remove this civilized system in favor of government making those choices. That is innately tyrannical. Innately.

@sachamm 4 жыл бұрын

You'll feel really safe with your healthcare that your money bought you when all your neighbours are sick with infectious diseases. Turns out the market doesn't produce the best outcomes in all areas. This, of course, is only a surprise to libertarians.

@MilwaukeeF40C 4 жыл бұрын

@@sachamm Remove the head or destroy the brain.

@Bill_Woo 4 жыл бұрын

@@sachamm If you are that irrationally paranoid about interacting with humans, consider moving to Pluto. You're the guy sending people into poverty and diseases because of your support for and acquiesence to the lockdowns, aren't you? Because the suffering or deaths of thousands is secondary to the selfish self interests of the hypocrite, right?

@complexaltruist 4 жыл бұрын

Most people do not have money, you are in favor of an aristocracy where the poor die. Government healthcare deals with scarcity by importance of case while private healthcare deals with healthcare but who can fill the doctors pocket more.

@jamesgiles8075 4 жыл бұрын

The guy is a joke. His closing statement is "Governments make mistakes and that's ok, but it's not ok when businesses make mistakes".

@kevinmartinez9333 3 жыл бұрын

Not a joke. Read his book Case for Medicare For All, it's a slim read and efficient.

@charlesparent-spioneck9928 3 жыл бұрын

Kevin Martinez who should pay for it?

@kevinmartinez9333 3 жыл бұрын

@@charlesparent-spioneck9928 5% income-based premium paid by employers (first $2 million exempt from premiums). 4% income-based premium paid by households (average family saves money). Make the personal tax more progressive: taxing capital gains and dividends the same as income, limiting deductions for the wealthy, taxing carried interest as ordinary income. Replace the flat 40% tax rate on the estate tax, and make it more progressive. There's more options and here's a link if you want to learn further: www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.sanders.senate.gov/download/options-to-finance-medicare-for-all%3Finline%3Dfile&ved=2ahUKEwilr5zgguXsAhVFgnIEHWy0B8wQFjAAegQIJRAC&usg=AOvVaw2tqCxQugfNOPAoT_zhxHsW

@jai6491 4 жыл бұрын

Absolutely not! Politicians don’t care, they get their health costs at no cost to them, paid for by taxpayers. Start having them pay for their own health costs and see how they feel about healthcare for all.

@JennWest-Liberty 4 жыл бұрын

UNDERSTAND LAW POSITIVE (CONSTITUTIONAL) NON-POSITIVE (CONTRACTUAL) NATURAL LAW - LAW OF THE PRIVATE CITIZENS WHO CHOOSE NOT TO CONTRACT WITH THE GOVERNMENT AND DO NOT HAVE AN OATH AND ARE THEREFORE NOT BOUND BY IT. POSITIVE LAW: Those with an oath must follow the positive law. Positive law is federalism and must comply with the constitution. Those who take an oath must uphold the constitution. They have constitutional rights and privileges. Title 1 Ch. 3 Section 204 states that laws with a positive law citation are evidence in all the courts that the law is made in accordance with the constitution. deductive reasoning. Those without a positive law citation are NOT laws in accordance to the constitution. non-positive laws are offers to contract. They require that you sign a form, fill out papers, they tell you what titles or parts of titles apply to this particular contract. Contracts are for: a license a permit a certificate an agreement to be vaccinated ticketed fined imprisoned use of force against you taking of your property taxing forced mask wearing forced into military service (conscription) forced enumeration (social security/mark of the beast) taking of your children by CPS use of courts for divorce, child support, Laws NOT positive (not constitutional) Title 2. USC Congress Title 6 USC Domestic Security Title 7 USC Agriculture Title 8 USC Aliens and Nationality Title 12 USC Banks and Banking (federal reserve is a government controlled corporation) Title 15 USC Commerce and Trade Title 16 USC Conservation Title 19 USC Customs and Duties Title 20 USC Education Title 21 USC Food and Drugs (FDA, CDC) Title 22 USC Foreign Relations and Intercourse Title 24 USC Hospitals and Asylums Title 25 USC Indians Title 26 USC Internal Revenue Code Title 27 USC Intoxicating Liquors Title 29 USC Labor Title 30 USC Mineral Lands and Mining Title 33 USC Navigation and Navigable Waters Title 34 USC Crime Control and Law Enforcement (Police are by contract) Title 42 USC The Public Health and Welfare (vaccines and masks - all by your consent and agreement - everything they tell you is pure propaganda and lies - the police are also by contract) Title 43 USC Public Lands Title 45 USC Railroads Title 47 USC Telecommunications (5G?) Title 48 USC Territories and Insular Possessions Title 50 USC War and National Defense (this is not defenCe as shown in the constitution) Title 52 USC Voting and Elections (contracts with the states) My understanding is that the contract laws were so that the federal government could pay the states to provide essential services to the military. History: The states granted/annexed some lands to the federal government (United States) for defenCe purposes, which are Military Posts/Reservations. The Officers on these lands "resided" on these lands - they had no choice in where they were "stationed" and when you don't have a choice, you are considered a "resident." They had military housing and were allowed to have their families with them. However, there were no services available to them and their families - no schools for children, no hospitals, no asylums, no fire departments. So the feds asked each state to provide for those services, the states said no they were not going to pay for those services for federal use - so the feds offered money and contracts. The states then agreed to the contracts. Some states agreed to some contracts, but then the constitution states that things available to some states should be available to all states - by states they mean the federal Military Posts/Reservations in the state. So the feds began to make the contracts with the states, paid the states, and the states allowed the feds to use their services. At Fort Leavenworth they have public schools on post, however many other military posts do not. They bus the children off post. Most military Posts have hospitals so military members do not have to leave post for that service, most also have fire departments, etc. Therefore, the non-positive laws are unconstitutional laws that allowed the federal government to negotiate with the states for contracting those services by way of payment to them for the use of the services in the state. See book: Jurisdiction Over Federal Areas Within The State. This is a government report published in 1957. Ron Paul also mentions The Defense Production Act of 1950 which can be found online. babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015036754540&view=1up&seq=3 See bottom note- all positive laws have an "*" those not positive have no "*". uscode.house.gov The Public - Government Public Officers and Employees Private - anyone not in government who do not have an oath. Citizens of the State - a member of the state government who has an oath and works for the government as a member of the Public (servant to be watched by the sovereign people). Citizen of the United States/United States Citizens - a member of the federal government, who has an oath, a servant (to be watched) Residents - Prisoners and Military members who do not have a say in where they are sent to live and work. Private people, Natural Persons, Men, Women - those not within government, not a member of the government state or federal, not having an oath and therefore completely free, unbound by the constraints of the constitution. Natural Law: RIGHT NOT TO CONTRACT Unwritten Conform to the laws of the Universe/physics Includes customs Civil Laws Come from the Sovereign (God to man) Includes ALL freedoms to act in any way providing he does not harm. Freedom to travel without a license Freedom to work without being taxed right to your labor right to the fruit of your labor right to life right to liberty right to happiness right to keep your children right to own and operate a business/provide a service right to own property without being taxed right to leave your country - right of return (right to return to your home country and right to return to the country of your ancestors) right not to be forced right not to be imprisoned over contracts (debts). Right not to be limited by a constitutional Bill of Rights. Right to carry arms and own arms of any type or size. Right to to ask permission Freedom of speech Freedom of religion Freedom of not being a member of a government Right to associate with others Right to live without fear of being harmed by other associations - non aggression principle.

@1966bluemax 4 жыл бұрын

I wonder how much tax hike it will include. Like 5%? 10%? 15%?

@1966bluemax 3 жыл бұрын

@@IonorReasSpamGenerator so, it’s like 10% then. I wonder if both the employer and employee will give 10%. That’s how Medicare works in the US. The employee and employer both give 1.45%. It might cripple small businesses if they need to fork another 10%

@IonorReasSpamGenerator 3 жыл бұрын

@@1966bluemax You generally would pay less in the unified system because the government has bigger negotiating power in setting fixed prices, this, of course, leave medical companies with less money, so even when an average person get better healthcare in a unified system simply because it can afford it thus EU have a better life expectancy, wealthy people still get better services in the US because there is more money to be made, thus better incentive to produce expensive treatments. In UK which is most similar to the US in GDP per capita, you pay for your universal healthcare taken off from your paycheck and it is around 160 pounds per month for the average worker earning 1600 pounds per month after all taxes has been taken. As far as I seen, people in the US pay more to get same results. Universal healthcare is not perfect, but you don't end bankrupt if accidents happen to you as a consequence of the large medical bill, so it's like life insurance, and people with extra cash can still get premium beyond necessary when paying medical insurance companies as you got in the US..

@youlittlefat 4 жыл бұрын

Monopoly is bad, then we will give the monopoly to the government. Genius!

@shortchubbyneckbeard1681 4 жыл бұрын

Monopoly of what? Paying your medical bills? Who cares who pays as long as you don’t have medical debt?

@TheSeniorTaco 4 жыл бұрын

@@Repurplecirculation This is why making medicine wide open free market is the solution. Look at virtually every market - cars,computers, furniture- you can buy a computer that is faster than a 1960 supercomputer for less than $1K because of capitalism. France govt didn't want to face capitalism and developed a computer- they reinvented the dumb terminal(black screen command line) when Win95 was on the market.

@mega1chiken6dancr9 3 жыл бұрын

@@shortchubbyneckbeard1681 discord? debate me on the effectiveness of m4a

@brent89 4 жыл бұрын

What do you mean "government provide"? Who do you think provides them with their money? This is just buying your own healthcare with extra steps and letting the government name their price.

@ewill312 4 жыл бұрын

Dangggg. Dropping Truth bombs!!! 💥 💥 💥

@alexh2790 4 жыл бұрын

That's not entirely accurate. It's not only a case of the government providing health insurance, the hospital system itself shifts away from being for-profit. At least that's the case here in Canada. Edit: Also, it's not "extra steps", you're born with access.

@alexh2790 4 жыл бұрын

@george mihaita Not precise at all. You have to pay an insurance company and then a co-pay potentially. In our system there are no steps for the end user other than got to the hospital, get treated, and leave.

@alexh2790 4 жыл бұрын

@george mihaita Actually I usually vote Conservative. Also, how is paying taxes and billing the govt. more steps (for the money) than paying an insurance company who then pays the hospital. I'd also like to add why does it matter? It's not even debatable that the American system is more cost inefficient than other comparable countries. Americans pay twice as much per capita than us.

@alexh2790 4 жыл бұрын

@@HarryF-tz5fo That's part of what makes it cost inefficient, you have a patchwork of systems that don't work together in a congruous manner. I do agree that it is concerning that some of the dems appear to want to cover illegals as well. Here in Canada if you are not a citizen you either have some form of visitor's insurance or you pay for services rendered.

@henocknoelstephan1038 4 жыл бұрын

My aunt is a RN at a big hospital in Texas and she told me that a single payer system is never the answer. Even now patients lie about their conditions status in order to get more benefits or a greater coverage through loop holes in a system. There should be another way to decrease prices without government invention. Trump was saying something about going after “the middle men” like how insulin is $1000+ here but less than $50 in Mexico per person. Somehow people are unnecessarily benefiting off the suffering of others, I’m just spit balling but their needs to be better* regulation of the current system. Not to throw it out for a new one? Idk just spit balling.

@stephens2663 4 жыл бұрын

You have some good thoughts. Don't stop milling it around. She is right .. single payer is never the answer.

@henocknoelstephan1038 4 жыл бұрын

@@Repurplecirculation Dang what you said was amazing. I feel more motivated to look into this mess even more now, thank you for narrowing it down some more!

@johnproctor5314 4 жыл бұрын

There are too many people in America who did everything right in their lives, but still got screwed over by healthcare expenses. One way or another, the whole system has to be revamped, and it can't all depend on market forces.

@jn71000486 4 жыл бұрын

It unfortunately has little to do with market forces. It’s hyper-regulated and monopolized due to government interference. Healthcare was much more affordable before the government cunts poisoned it. We do not have close to a free market system in the US, it is much closer to fascism. Get the gov out, and let the people work within a free market system.

@cconroy1677 4 жыл бұрын

Sure it can, if they don't heal you, they don't get paid. Spoiler alert: the vast majority of people can heal themselves, and the medical establishment is hit or miss with those who can't. You buy the lies, you get what you paid for. Furthermore, let those of us who know better opt out of expensive insurance, we shouldn't be punished for other people's choices.

@cconroy1677 4 жыл бұрын

Semantics as usual. "The government" means "the taxpayers", that's not debatable, that's a fact. How in the world can you look at your neighbor and tell them what they will and will not do? Where do you get off? How would you like to be told how you will and will not behave? Telling them what they should and should not do is fine; that is so completely different from will and will not. There is no force in "should".

@sachamm 4 жыл бұрын

Welcome to living with other people. It's not easy, but it is advantageous. You don't want to live by this group's rules, go live with another group.

@MilwaukeeF40C 4 жыл бұрын

@Aravind Krishna Privatize all that shit.

@Jooooger 4 жыл бұрын

We tell people what they will not do all the time. You will not murder, you will not steal, etc. These are fine (for the most part). It's the "you WILLS" that are not okay (also for the most part) from a libertarian point of view because they lack consent. The role of society is to protect, not perfect.

@MilwaukeeF40C 4 жыл бұрын

@Untergrundmaschine Other countries suck ass at economics. U.S. health services are by far better than anywhere else for people who pay. Government interference drives up the cost.

@MilwaukeeF40C 4 жыл бұрын

@Untergrundmaschine The U.S. is way ahead of England and other states with socialist medical services in cancer treatments. England is late in offering proton treatment.

@robertblack6941 4 жыл бұрын

Medical care for those with insurance in the USA get BETTER health care than anywhere else. This guy is disingenuous. Almost all the costs in the USA medicine are driven by regulations. Since regulations created the problem, it is idioic to think total regulation would be better.

@joela.4058 4 жыл бұрын

US pays the most for healthcare and has far from the best. This fact alone indicates major changes must be done, the status quo on healthcare in the US is broken and unsustainable.

@buzzlaw 4 жыл бұрын

the factors are deeper than just equivocating cost and effect.

@techguy651 4 жыл бұрын

Sure, but the only solutions debated in the public forum are, “Medicare for all” or “keep private insurance the way it is.” I’m no doctor, but maybe there’s something in between. There must be a way to disincentivize over billing and premium inflation without throwing out the entire medical payment system.

@buzzlaw 4 жыл бұрын

results don't say what the health care system is capable of. there are problems with oversight on spending but our healthcare is second to none. our citizens need to take their care more seriously

@rumco 4 жыл бұрын

Gerald Friedman be like: I'm going to assume government regulations away when discussing medical care because that's what a respected academic should do.

@henocknoelstephan1038 4 жыл бұрын

When you assume you make an ass out of you and me 😅

@buzzlaw 4 жыл бұрын

and KZbin

@redram5150 4 жыл бұрын

Buzz Law KZbin succeeds on its own

@JennWest-Liberty 4 жыл бұрын

@lukutiss1324 4 жыл бұрын

Just a reminder that within the military (where cause of death is being reported the most accurately), we are at 5 deaths from 35,000 confirmed cases. What pandemic are we talking about? It seems like healthy young people have absolutely nothing to worry about.

@shortchubbyneckbeard1681 4 жыл бұрын

We are not a nation of only young people

@lukutiss1324 4 жыл бұрын

@@shortchubbyneckbeard1681 A quick look at an age-sex diagram says we mostly are. And the elderly are not dying much more than they do every year from the cold and flu, which are also deadly to people with weak immune systems.

@shortchubbyneckbeard1681 4 жыл бұрын

lukutiss1324 there’s a lot of Boomers dude

@lukutiss1324 4 жыл бұрын

@@shortchubbyneckbeard1681 Not according to the statistics. Once you account for co-morbidities and falsification of death certificates, the virus doesn't kill all that many elderly people.

@MilwaukeeF40C 4 жыл бұрын

@@shortchubbyneckbeard1681 The death rate of elderly people for each age is still way down from less than half a century ago.

@redram5150 4 жыл бұрын

Short answer, no. Long answer, hell no

@JDubyafoto 4 жыл бұрын

One issue that is never discussed during these types of debates is compensation for the providers. In the U.S. we pay providers (doctors, hospitals, etc.) on a fee for service basis which leads to a fair amount of abuse by unscrupulous providers. A bad doctor is paid on the same schedule as a good doctor yet the patient outcomes aren't the same. We need to be compensating providers on a patient outcome basis. That would cause bad doctors to either improve or go out of business. After all, do you want brain surgery performed by the bottom 5% of students in medical schools or the top 5%? The fee for service system was instituted at the same time as health insurance because it was a logical system at that time. It no longer does a fair job of compensating providers. Also, separate health insurance from employment. Let people make their own decisions on where they buy insurance and what coverage they prefer.Part of the problem today is that government has meddled with the system and mandated coverage that not everyone needs. As a single male, I do not need maternity care yet I pay for it anyway. I don't need abortion services yet I pay for it anyway. Give the choice back to the consumers and get the government out of the business!

@pavledunic8491 4 жыл бұрын

I live in Serbia. Our "free" Healthcare is very expensive and very bad quality. Nothing is free. Here we have to pay 10.3% of our monthly salary for health insurance. Everyone is forced to have health insurance and of course that insurance needs to be government's one. Everyone who supports this theft have one argument and that is "what about poor people who can't afford health care?". Here in Serbia if your salary is too low and your 10.3% isn't enough to pay for your surgery you would need to pay additional money from your pocket. That's why kids who can't afford surgeries needs to collect money through sms donations. Everyone is forced to have Government health insurance. Yeah sure you can have better and cheaper private one but you would still have to pay for government one even if you don't use it at all. In my opinion this is theft.

@cconroy1677 4 жыл бұрын

Same here, lots of go fund me's to pay medical bills. Proof the private market doesn't need govt interference, just to humble themselves and ask friends and family for help when they absolutely need it. Thank you for the warning from abroad, too. 10.3% is nuts but I'm sure that's where we're headed thanks to the numbnuts here. Idiocy knows no borders lol.

@bookie9273 4 жыл бұрын

Serbia got half the per capita GDP of Turkey. Maybe that’s the problem?

@pavledunic8491 4 жыл бұрын

@@bookie9273 Our standard is low because we were communist country before. Communism and diktators ruined our past, present and future. They have stolen a lot from us. Now we have crony capitalism and that mean success of a company is determined by which polital party they support. Man I wish I lived in USA. I can't believe someone in US wants socialism. Capitalism is best thing in America. 🇺🇸

@bookie9273 4 жыл бұрын

Pavle Dunic Slovenia and Croatia - also part of former Yugoslavia - are doing pretty well last time I checked. And their healthcare systems as well

@pavledunic8491 4 жыл бұрын

@@bookie9273 If you don't live there don't talk about it because it isn't true. People in Croatia and in all Balkan countries lives the same. We are all in the same situation.

@buzzlaw 4 жыл бұрын

damn she's on point. he came in focused on strawmaning her position and equivocating cost and effectiveness.

@sachamm 4 жыл бұрын

Canadians and Brits get better health outcomes for less money. End of debate. Meanwhile, Pipes wastes her time on doctor pay and rhetorical BS over "rights".

@buzzlaw 4 жыл бұрын

@@sachamm different cultures have different ways of living. here in America it's a privilege to work yourself to death and eat what the tv tells you.

@sashu1998 4 жыл бұрын

@sachamm Better health outcomes?? All I hear is much worse health outcomes with extremely long wait times, why not see the effort steven crowder had to put to get a simple blood test in Canada and the interview he did with some Canadians

@sashu1998 4 жыл бұрын

@Untergrundmaschine Try switzerland or singapore , no govt funded healthcare, regulated free market system which works great

@sachamm 4 жыл бұрын

@@sashu1998 LOL It would have taken less time to find the actual statistics than to type your comment. I guess you're not too interested in the reality of the situation. Good luck with that.

@dauchande 4 жыл бұрын

My question about professors like this is that if everything is so much better in Europe, then why are they still living in the U.S.?

@rondecambio7375 4 жыл бұрын

For her only Canada And the U.K. are examples.France ,Italy,Australia ecc. Germany don't exsist.

@jamesgiles8075 4 жыл бұрын

They both only used Canada and the U.K. because they are the largest examples.

@rondecambio7375 4 жыл бұрын

@@jamesgiles8075 I don't think that's a very Fair assesment James.Germany has 80 million people as well as being a combo of private - public in organization.Italy my country has a too rated Health System although often overlooked by Anglo- Saxson bias.France Is also a Major player .To be honest Canada dosen't even come in the top 30 when Health systems are rated.Jspan another country with good Health care delivery You could go on and on .Every developed country has some form of Universal care,everyone ,so my point was why Just keep using Canada and the U.K. and ignor all the rest.Austria,Norway,Australia ,New Zealand,Spain ,Portugal,The Netherlands,Belgium,Switzerland and on and on.

@rondecambio7375 4 жыл бұрын

@@jamesgiles8075 Sorry about the typo errors.

@ExPwner 4 жыл бұрын

The former are single payer whereas IIRC the latter are not.

@rondecambio7375 4 жыл бұрын

@@ExPwner with all respect You don't know What your talking about.Italys system Is based on the British ,although run Better by most indicators.The French system also runs on a similar basis.Those are Just Two,so You see not all the others are single player as You Say.Ma chi siamo noi , gli Americani sanno tutto!

@letsbecomebillionaires-bks3975 3 жыл бұрын

The best example of why Canadians love their healthcare even though it is the worst is the following analogy regarding guns. I was anti-gun for the longest time, and when I began my research, I realized that guns used to be IN SCHOOLS. Kids brought their guns to school to go hunting after. The NRA was in schools teaching shooting. Back then, if you asked students if they felt uncomfortable with guns in school, they would have obviously said no since it was around them. However, now, I can't imagine any student saying they would be okay with students bringing ARs to school to go hunting after. Why?? because they never lived with that being a reality.

@anthonyburke3000 4 жыл бұрын

Government provides everything nowadays, EXCEPT RULE OF LAW!

@IonorReasSpamGenerator 3 жыл бұрын

You cannot expect policemen to take control over the rioters in a country where next to everybody can own a gun, especially not after their budgets got slashed..

@atsp18 4 жыл бұрын

Japanese public health care is failing toooo hard. The national health insurance tax is increasing. When we turned 40 years old, we also gotta pay Long-Term Care Insurance.

@MattGPT-eh4cp 3 жыл бұрын

Medicine costs money, fact, sorry about that. The reason that Countries with Nationalized medicine save money is they deny treatments. People in those countries that wont have those treatments denied have to have private insurance, meaning that they pay twice.

@David-wy9jl 4 жыл бұрын

U.S. tort laws are a big reason why medical costs are so high. Doctors order un-needed services as a protection from being sued. Tort reform is needed.

@homewall744 4 жыл бұрын

True, but more is there's no free market for medicine. When you destroy free markets, you can't grumble about prices or quality or variety or progress.

@coolbeans6148 4 жыл бұрын

@Untergrundmaschine its nowhere near free market, its half and half. Second part is utterly absurd.

@coolbeans6148 4 жыл бұрын

@Untergrundmaschine That is completely irrelevant. If half is good and the other half is dog shit, that makes all yhe difference. And even still that isnt true. Medicare for all sucks ass, and yes, ive lived in Europe.

@coolbeans6148 4 жыл бұрын

@Untergrundmaschine who said its making things worse, you and you uneducated opinion? Government is making it worse. Ive had had a few government docs almost kill me, im glad private sector exists or i would be dead.

@ExPwner 4 жыл бұрын

@Untergrundmaschine wrong. There's nothing free market about it.

@MrSky10101 4 жыл бұрын

Americans pay as much as a Canadian in their taxes to support the Americans who can't afford health care, let that sink in

@JohnSmith-oe5rx 4 жыл бұрын

好心Sky It’s because of big pharma.

@mischevious 4 жыл бұрын

As an American who’s never had health insurance I can confirm that no other person or entity has ever spent one red cent on my healthcare but me. And when I get too frail or the expense is beyond my means I have no doubt I’ll be left to die like all the rest. Thanks in advance for not giving a shit!

@carmiesanpaolo8689 3 жыл бұрын

Let’s say that health care is indeed a human right. Wouldn’t it have to also be true that food, and clothing are human rights as well? But it does not follow that because food and clothing are rights that it is immoral to provide these services primarily through markets. The human rights argument in favor of Medicare for all is a non-sequiter.

@seanoleary4374 4 жыл бұрын

I heard an argument in favor of Medicare for all that actually made sense, you pay for it out of every check, your employer pays the same thing, so both you and your employer are paying for services not rendered, but it should be an option to opt out, (including your employer), but as someone who is 100% legally disabled, I receive Medicare and it sucks, I work 6 days a week, but it's the meds that keep me able to work (mostly opioids), and since it's a government program and the govt is on a crusade against pain meds, it's shitty insurance, but no private insurance company will touch me, because of multiple pre existing conditions, so I'm kinda screwed in that aspect... Just my take on it, I could use the VA but that's even worse

@AtlasReburdened 4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, the VA is a nightmare. This is a real, though paraphrased conversation with a VA "doctor". Him: Explain your whole medical history in the next 30 seconds because I don't feel like reading your record. Me: Um, that's impossible but I'll give you the background of what my current problem is. While I was deployed in Iraq I gave an opinion on something that my command didn't like, so I was punished by being made to move equipment rated as 4-man lift for a whole day. Near the end I felt something like lightning shoot up my spine, and not wanting to drop a 2 million dollar piece of equipment and earn an NJP, I caught it akwardly and blew a hernia that extruded about two fistfuls of guts out of my abdominal wall. I went to medical and they told me I'd have to wait the 6 months until my deployment was over to get it fixed and it got worse over that time but I mostly learned to function with one hand holding my guts in. After deployment, the commie butcher they call a surgeon botched the repair, leaving an internal hernia that MRIs in my file prove. Him: uh huh, so what's the problem now? Me: Well now, if I don't hold my torso just right or, or try to shit, or if I eat a full meal, I feel a big part of my guts shift out of place and I instantly begin pouring a wretched hormonal smelling sweat and if I don't instantly lay on my back and push the guts back into place I get thrown into what feels like a panic attack. My arms and legs go numb, I get to dizzy to stand, and my vision goes black within a minute. Him: You said excessive sweating? Me: Um, yes, that's one of the symptoms. Him: Ok, I'm going to order a visit to a dermatologist to get that checked out. Me: (flabbergasted)I... I don't think it's a dematological issue. Him: (patronizingly)Yeah, see, when sweat sits on the skin tiny bacteria digest it and make the bad smell you're experiencing. Me: (angering)I know what my normal body odor smells like. I've sweat more on a single deployment than you will in a lifetime and have been without a shower during those times for extended periods. That's not what this is. This is beyond acrid smelling, and happens almost instantly. Him: Well the dermatologist will know more about that than me. Me: This is why veterans kill themselves in your parking lot. Him: Ok, I'll schedule you for a mental health assessment after the dermatologist. Do you own any guns we need to know about? Me: (suppressing homicidal inclinations) That's none of your business. Are we done here? Him: Uhhhh, yeah looks like it, the lady at the desk will finish scheduling your appointments. Me *leaves and never looks back.

@seanoleary4374 4 жыл бұрын

@@AtlasReburdened yeah the last time I tried to file for benefits, I lost the will to live halfway there, and got drunk with a homeless guy named Cornelius, his last name was Flakes- he had a rough life.. sorry ranger up video, had to steal that bit from them... Funny but sad cartoon they put out about the VA, called the damn few, wizard of VA, should look it up sometime, you will never laugh and cry so hard at the same time.. Nick Palascsimo (sp?) Is a comedic genius

@lithp30 4 жыл бұрын

@@AtlasReburdened I'm mildly disappointed but impressed that you suppressed your homicidal inclinations

@AtlasReburdened 4 жыл бұрын

@@lithp30 I felt the same way immediately afterward.

@marcusdavenport1590 4 жыл бұрын

Please bring on someone like Tom Woods to debate him... He lied so many times but no one called him on it. I don't care about two people debating, I want accurate information!

@guntherbeethoven4895 4 жыл бұрын

The single payer argument is so disingenuous. It's always, list off a bunch of problems with the current system, then just jump into ideological conclusions, completely circumventing any discussion on specific policy

@complexaltruist 4 жыл бұрын

How is it disingenuous? People who argue for it want their fellow citizens to not die needlessly and to not be overwhelmed with debt.

@user-xt3xn2hl4e 4 жыл бұрын

@@complexaltruist It would be disingenuous to argue that "fellow citizens will die without a single-payer universal healthcare system."

@complexaltruist 4 жыл бұрын

@@user-xt3xn2hl4e people have died because they can't pay for their medical needs. Insurance companies barely help because they try their damndest to not pay out.

@ExPwner 4 жыл бұрын

@@complexaltruist and more people have died per capita from not getting care due to government under government systems. What's your point? fee.org/articles/if-american-healthcare-kills-european-healthcare-kills-more/

@complexaltruist 4 жыл бұрын

@@ExPwner 1. American healthcare is dogshit because government sites are not given proper funding or equipment because of conservatives. 2. Canadian healthcare is provincial, not national so it can depend on how much the province has and how many people they have to deal with. 3. Britain's healthcare is currently being slowly privatized leading to be being less efficient. it was once the prie of the world.

@georgeshepherd2668 4 жыл бұрын

Who knew Walter Block wanted Medicare for all

@MBarberfan4life 3 жыл бұрын

Lmfao!

@numberjuan297 2 жыл бұрын

Great debate! I disagree with Gerald but it was really good to know about the socialist approach

@Menstral 4 жыл бұрын

You would not need to provide 90% of “health care” (disease maintenance) if Americans met the height/weight chart of the 50s. You do not give a license or insurance to a person with 10 tickets. The privilege of health insurance deserves to be bestowed on those thin individuals who do not smoke, and drink less than 2-3 drinks a week, in short....exactly the people who do not need health insurance. Yet more of the ‘Matthew Effect‘.

@cconroy1677 4 жыл бұрын

That's sort of true. But more like car insurance, you insure everybody but rates go up on an individual policy the more they make claims. Pretty sure that's how it used to be....

@TheSeniorTaco 4 жыл бұрын

"if we can afford the current system, we can afford something cheaper." Does he mean "cheaper" as in obama's definition of cheaper??? Thanks to obama raising the cost of medicine, 95% of americans are paying alot more in $$ and lost benefits such as much higher deductibles to help a few that "can't afford"(i say can't afford as see the needy they have all the comforts in life) health care.

@complexaltruist 4 жыл бұрын

Because Republicans wanted to not let government negotiate prices and when you accept a Republican plan to mandate healthcare to privaye companies that you can't negotiate with, then you get more expensice healthcare.

@moodbooster8900 4 жыл бұрын

*ReasonTV* Keep it up

@ThePocketbass 4 жыл бұрын

Is this even a question? The answer is "no." Now g.t.f. outa the way.

@JennWest-Liberty 4 жыл бұрын

@ThePocketbass 4 жыл бұрын

@@JennWest-Liberty good stuff, Jenn. I'll read through that a little more carefully and save for reference. Thanks.

@complexaltruist 4 жыл бұрын

@@JennWest-Liberty you sound like one of those sovereign citizn types.

@da-n-ny1742 4 жыл бұрын

1) As a dual CAD/US citizen I Canada is a good place to die, not to live. 2) Correlation is not causation, a statistical fallacy, life expectancy drop can have numerous causes and not likely the US medical system which is the most advanced in the world but likely life style choices.

@ExPwner 4 жыл бұрын

Healthcare is not a public good and COVID didn't show any failures of markets. It showed the failure of central planning.

@ExPwner 4 жыл бұрын

The government paying insurers is literally part of the ACA which is another government interference and NOT markets. Does this guy lie about every point?

@JennWest-Liberty 4 жыл бұрын

No. UNDERSTAND LAW POSITIVE (CONSTITUTIONAL) NON-POSITIVE (CONTRACTUAL) NATURAL LAW - LAW OF THE PRIVATE CITIZENS WHO CHOOSE NOT TO CONTRACT WITH THE GOVERNMENT AND DO NOT HAVE AN OATH AND ARE THEREFORE NOT BOUND BY IT. POSITIVE LAW: Those with an oath must follow the positive law. Positive law is federalism and must comply with the constitution. Those who take an oath must uphold the constitution. They have constitutional rights and privileges. Title 1 Ch. 3 Section 204 states that laws with a positive law citation are evidence in all the courts that the law is made in accordance with the constitution. deductive reasoning. Those without a positive law citation are NOT laws in accordance to the constitution. non-positive laws are offers to contract. They require that you sign a form, fill out papers, they tell you what titles or parts of titles apply to this particular contract. Contracts are for: a license a permit a certificate an agreement to be vaccinated ticketed fined imprisoned use of force against you taking of your property taxing forced mask wearing forced into military service (conscription) forced enumeration (social security/mark of the beast) taking of your children by CPS use of courts for divorce, child support, Laws NOT positive (not constitutional) Title 2. USC Congress Title 6 USC Domestic Security Title 7 USC Agriculture Title 8 USC Aliens and Nationality Title 12 USC Banks and Banking (federal reserve is a government controlled corporation) Title 15 USC Commerce and Trade Title 16 USC Conservation Title 19 USC Customs and Duties Title 20 USC Education Title 21 USC Food and Drugs (FDA, CDC) Title 22 USC Foreign Relations and Intercourse Title 24 USC Hospitals and Asylums Title 25 USC Indians Title 26 USC Internal Revenue Code Title 27 USC Intoxicating Liquors Title 29 USC Labor Title 30 USC Mineral Lands and Mining Title 33 USC Navigation and Navigable Waters Title 34 USC Crime Control and Law Enforcement (Police are by contract) Title 42 USC The Public Health and Welfare (vaccines and masks - all by your consent and agreement - everything they tell you is pure propaganda and lies - the police are also by contract) Title 43 USC Public Lands Title 45 USC Railroads Title 47 USC Telecommunications (5G?) Title 48 USC Territories and Insular Possessions Title 50 USC War and National Defense (this is not defenCe as shown in the constitution) Title 52 USC Voting and Elections (contracts with the states) My understanding is that the contract laws were so that the federal government could pay the states to provide essential services to the military. History: The states granted/annexed some lands to the federal government (United States) for defenCe purposes, which are Military Posts/Reservations. The Officers on these lands "resided" on these lands - they had no choice in where they were "stationed" and when you don't have a choice, you are considered a "resident." They had military housing and were allowed to have their families with them. However, there were no services available to them and their families - no schools for children, no hospitals, no asylums, no fire departments. So the feds asked each state to provide for those services, the states said no they were not going to pay for those services for federal use - so the feds offered money and contracts. The states then agreed to the contracts. Some states agreed to some contracts, but then the constitution states that things available to some states should be available to all states - by states they mean the federal Military Posts/Reservations in the state. So the feds began to make the contracts with the states, paid the states, and the states allowed the feds to use their services. At Fort Leavenworth they have public schools on post, however many other military posts do not. They bus the children off post. Most military Posts have hospitals so military members do not have to leave post for that service, most also have fire departments, etc. Therefore, the non-positive laws are unconstitutional laws that allowed the federal government to negotiate with the states for contracting those services by way of payment to them for the use of the services in the state. See book: Jurisdiction Over Federal Areas Within The State. This is a government report published in 1957. Ron Paul also mentions The Defense Production Act of 1950 which can be found online. babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015036754540&view=1up&seq=3 See bottom note- all positive laws have an "*" those not positive have no "*". uscode.house.gov The Public - Government Public Officers and Employees Private - anyone not in government who do not have an oath. Citizens of the State - a member of the state government who has an oath and works for the government as a member of the Public (servant to be watched by the sovereign people). Citizen of the United States/United States Citizens - a member of the federal government, who has an oath, a servant (to be watched) Residents - Prisoners and Military members who do not have a say in where they are sent to live and work. Private people, Natural Persons, Men, Women - those not within government, not a member of the government state or federal, not having an oath and therefore completely free, unbound by the constraints of the constitution. Natural Law: RIGHT NOT TO CONTRACT Unwritten Conform to the laws of the Universe/physics Includes customs Civil Laws Come from the Sovereign (God to man) Includes ALL freedoms to act in any way providing he does not harm. Freedom to travel without a license Freedom to work without being taxed right to your labor right to the fruit of your labor right to life right to liberty right to happiness right to keep your children right to own and operate a business/provide a service right to own property without being taxed right to leave your country - right of return (right to return to your home country and right to return to the country of your ancestors) right not to be forced right not to be imprisoned over contracts (debts). Right not to be limited by a constitutional Bill of Rights. Right to carry arms and own arms of any type or size. Right to to ask permission Freedom of speech Freedom of religion Freedom of not being a member of a government Right to associate with others Right to live without fear of being harmed by other associations - non aggression principle.

@lisaburnside2101 4 жыл бұрын

This guy is a joke-“ don’t go to the doctor you die”. Personally I don’t trust doctors anymore and I am so much more healthier for it-

@coolbeans6148 4 жыл бұрын

Alot of people feel this way

@ExPwner 4 жыл бұрын

Talks about maternal deaths, spends zero time talking about demographic differences between the US and other countries. I wonder why that is?

@zachjones6944 3 жыл бұрын

No. God no! I have VA health care and sometimes I pay private doctor in cash.

@morgainenyc 4 жыл бұрын

How many bankruptcies are you comfortable with?

@mischevious 4 жыл бұрын

We’re clearly comfortable with letting forty thousand die every year without care and the death panels called insurance adjusters that deny as many valid claims as possible for the sake of maximizing corporate profits and a personal bonus so what do bankruptcies matter?!

@kylem7365 4 жыл бұрын

madwtube yep. Because we don’t know their situation beforehand.

@shortchubbyneckbeard1681 4 жыл бұрын

Over 500k bankruptcies in US due to medical bills - BEFORE COVID-19!

@shortchubbyneckbeard1681 4 жыл бұрын

madwtube Just stating a fact because it was a comment about bankruptcies

@GPT-X938 4 жыл бұрын

madwtube clearly there’s a moral disagreement. You’re ok with people declaring bankruptcy for health related issues. It’s unheard of in other developed nations

@ExPwner 4 жыл бұрын

The US doesn't have a purely market based system. The fast gains in costs weren't done with more private market share but less. Why isn't this mentioned? The costs literally exploded only after government got involved. Other countries similarly only got more expensive with more government, not less of it.

@homewall744 4 жыл бұрын

Unlike most other markets, the medical products and services and drugs are a never-ending stream of new stuff, often using tech and being more expensive. There's simply no such thing as "normal amount of healthcare." And then we have our special status: more violence, more drug use, more obesity.

@Trevortedder 4 жыл бұрын

No.

@allysagilbreath 3 жыл бұрын

I just got an idea! Why don’t we teach people how to care for their own health?!? You are your own best doctor because you know your body better than anyone else. Unless you have a condition, you should not need a professional. It will save you SO MUCH money if you get and stay healthy through diet and lifestyle.

@SabbathSOG 4 жыл бұрын

Why am I not shocked that a university professor thinks Medicare for all's a good idea?

@JohnSmith-oe5rx 4 жыл бұрын

Truthsabre7 Big pharma makes it impossible either way

@TheSeniorTaco 4 жыл бұрын

"Why am I not shocked that a university professor thinks Medicare for all's a good idea? 4" DUDE!!! his mentor was a communist!!! His econ thesis was probably based on Marx's book.

@austinhannemann2615 4 жыл бұрын

The life expectancy is a bad metric. We have more guns than any other country on that chart

@ExPwner 4 жыл бұрын

Not only that, but life expectancy is influenced by many different factors which have nothing to do with healthcare.

@dmendez77 3 ай бұрын

Neither of them made a great case. They seemed more interested in poking holes in each other’s stats and anecdotal evidence. As someone who prefers the case for liberty, but sees a major problem with the current American system, this debate was unfortunately underwhelming. Weakening your opponent’s argument is not the same as making one of your own.

@Koran90123 3 жыл бұрын

WE NEED VOLUNTARY MUTUAL AID AND FRIENDLY SOCIETIES. MAKE LODGE PRACTICE GREAT AGAIN.

@stephens2663 4 жыл бұрын

No. By saying healthcare is a human right you force nurses like me to be mandated to care for people. I enjoy caring for people but when it becomes my duty to fulfill someone's "human right", I have lost sight of this. I'm happy to take part in volunteering my care in different settings, however there is a sense of darkness when we require one human to work for another under the poise of human rights.

@michaelpearce8661 4 жыл бұрын

You don't have to care for anyone under a health care policy. The only people using it would be needing care. You don't need to be a nurse should it be too demanding.

@mischevious 4 жыл бұрын

But there’s no darkness at all in allowing forty thousand to die every year because they lack sufficient funds to feed corporate and Wall St profits. At any rate I’m sure the Q-Anon anti-mask crowd appreciates your upfront sacrifice of your human right to life!

@stephens2663 4 жыл бұрын

@@michaelpearce8661 hmmm needing care? Why is it that when people are given healthcare their health outcomes don't actually improve AND they actually use the Emergency Room more often? Look up the Oregon study where thousands of individuals were given free healthcare via lottery (due to a surplus) and their outcomes didn't improve at all.

@stephens2663 4 жыл бұрын

@@mischevious check out the study I mentioned. Randomized controlled trial .. thousands of data points.. and no improvement of outcomes.

@stephens2663 4 жыл бұрын

@@michaelpearce8661 here's your "people needing care"... www.nber.org/oregon/1.home.html

@tongmaa 4 жыл бұрын

First, before any discussion of subsuming the insurance and medical industry, let's discuss the Constitution and controlling the production of the goods and services under discussion? Direct *Individual* Taxation of everyone to pay for everyone's medical needs. Whatever the cost, the People will pay or hit-the-streets without any property ... and don't get sick out there ... ex-slave 'volunteer' ....

@Bill_Woo 4 жыл бұрын

Do I have the right to tell my neighbor that he is required to pay for something THAT I DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY FOR? Does my neighbor have the right to tell ME that **I** am required to pay for something THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY FOR? Then having governmental bureaucrats or bottom-feeding legislators institute that act by FORCE - is tyranny. Innately. Tyranny. That doesn't mean that one neighbor doesn't agree to put out home fires for the other. That is VOLUNTARILY agreed. TOTALLY different.

@redlightmax 4 жыл бұрын

Bill Woo There's a fire department.

@Bill_Woo 4 жыл бұрын

@@redlightmax Do you understand the difference between voluntary participation and extorted financial redistribution? Let me explain fire departments: many, many, many communities have a "volunteer fire department" instead of paying a county or municipality for the service, with their runaway costs and abuses and the amazing tendencies of firemen to file for disability at the stroke of midnight of their 50th birthday, even if they never got closer to a fire or rescue than seeing it on TV. Hypocritical liars claim that people will not voluntarily take care of themselves. Wrong. They have, since the beginning of time. Now other people DO agree to having a municipality or county provide fire services, because they have a reasonable confidence level in the cost being acceptable for the service, and it well may be due to economy of scale. So don't imply that Libertarians or anyone that prefers free choice to government tyranny is not in favor of fire departments. That and trash collection and road construction is a completely different matter than cutting checks for individuals, punishing those who saved and provided for themselves, in order to benefit those who have not. Let VOLUNTARY institutions take care of that. Charities, churches, GoFundMes, or you name it. But cutting checks to individuals is something that should never be in the government's hands. Besides generally being inept and bureaucratically counterproductive, they pick winners and losers and that should be the FREE CHOICE - and of those WHO PAY FOR IT. It's amazing how many hypocrites and selfish self-serving lowlife Liberals don't "get" that. But getting a free lunch at the expense of others sits just fine with them.

@karlkascha1261 4 жыл бұрын

The government is tasked with national security and rule of law. We don't need another expensive government monopolistic program. Also people smoke and are obese. I don't want their bad habits to be paid for by me.

@sujaykrishnanath82 4 жыл бұрын

Singapore with it's free market healthcare with milton friedman style poverty franchise system:*YELLING IN THE CORNER*

@andrewwells6323 4 жыл бұрын

Yeah but Singapore provides healthcare to people who can't afford it, free at the point of use.

@cconroy1677 4 жыл бұрын

@@andrewwells6323 yes but that would be a very small percentage of Americans. Like 1%. So 99% of us can function, and it costs us a fraction of a fraction each to help the 1%, true dysfunction is definitely not rampant like the govt wants you to believe. Laziness and govt interference are rampant.

@Eukatae 4 жыл бұрын

Jerry did pretty well initially, well prepared to present his arguments, but faltered later when he had to address the Q&A questions. On the down side his summations appeal to "think of the children' and trying to navigate around the dissonance and circular reasoning of his own argument was clumsy and unconvincing. But generally a respectable job and I believe he cares and wants the best outcomes for everyone; I wish he could be persuaded the side of freedom he would be a great ally.

@FifthConcerto 4 жыл бұрын

To limit monopoly power, we need a monopolistic single payer system?

@alexh2790 4 жыл бұрын

I'm sorry but I'm from Canada and around here Sally Pipes is seen as kind of kooky at best and a shill for private insurance at worst. I've watched some of her other videos and anecdotal arguments and misinformation abound.

@MBarberfan4life 3 жыл бұрын

She's kooky and a shill. I'm not even Canadian

@castello544 4 жыл бұрын

Our cutting edge drugs are BS but she knows that.

@FifthConcerto 4 жыл бұрын

I keep having to pause so my resting heart rate goes back down. This is going to take way longer than 90 minutes to watch. Son of a...

@jonathansmith4742 4 жыл бұрын

Nick is a hero.

@michaelpearce8661 4 жыл бұрын

My brother who died before his 51ft birthday was refused medical attention. They claimed that he was just a drug addict seeking a high. He died from pancreatic cancer and had brain tumors.

@jozipf.alonzo302 4 жыл бұрын

You have my most enthusiastic condolences.

@2550205 4 жыл бұрын

The false premise in the opposed argument and theoretically in the other side. That health care should be provided for 'free'. Of course it can not be provided for free. The cost would shift from one that comes out of the pocket of citizens after taxes either personally or through employers as a 'benefit' which is simply another part of their wages which the employee has less control over at a lower cost. To a cost that would come out of the pocket of the individual through taxation. No one is arguing that there is manna falling from heaven. The question is why is the cost is so high here and that has to do with the overhead and the incremental cost generated by fear of failure on the part of the insurers as their customers constantly switch between health insurers. When one entity is collecting premiums from all individuals at all levels of wealth then there is no need to charge a risk premium on the part of every different insurer as is now the case. If there was one insurer no one would be switching insurers and there would be no fear of the economic loss that can result but in fact does not actually result. In fact, the excess cost to individuals i.e. the risk premium charged by each insurer winds up as profits to the private insurers which are paid out as dividends to shareholders or excessive salaries paid to administrators. Automobile insurance is not a right, it is an obligation. If only the people who thought they would get into accidents paid for automobile insurance, it would be significantly higher than it is. So the framing of the problem creates the disconnect. Health care is not a right, it is an obligation. People get sick and then seek services. The country appears unified in its view that services should be universally available. In other words that this is an obligation. This is a framing problem. If in fact health related spending represents the largest portion of GDP spending then it must be an obligation more than a right. There is no question that if wealthy individuals want to pay more for 'concierge services' or 'better treatment' it would be available as it is today. This is exactly where the system is now. You want a private room in a hospital, you pay for that out of your pocket if you want a heart transplant rather than just drugs to mitigate heart health, you make that choice with your wallet. One piece of data missing from the discussion is where is the cutoff for the wealthy? Do individuals with a net worth of ten million dollars or more have health insurance? I would guess no. I would guess that those individuals own stock in the health insurers and collect dividends paid by the un wealthy. The wealthy then pay what they choose to whom they choose using the profits generated by the insurers out of premiums collected from the un wealthy. Clearly a simplification but true to an extent. Million dollar pills generate profits. The wealthy have the money to subsidize the research that is funded by those profits. If the wealthy then refuse to share these benefits of the system with the un wealthy then that is a comment on the empathy of the wealthy nothing more. The idea that there is some 'equality' in the system as it exists now is simply wrong. Why would private insurers or health care providers need to be abolished? This argument appears to self destruct at the moment you ask why this would be necessary. Clearly the un wealthy are subsidizing the services provided to the wealthy while the un wealthy receive already differently rated levels of service on some random quality scale. Next up conflating cost of health insurance with the 'quality' of health care provided. See above. If doctors are willing to accept less than $300,000 the stated number here acceptable to provide services, they are in the wrong business and you can not conflate this with the theoretical moral obligation to keep people alive at some randomly defined rate beyond some other randomly defined rate. Two entirely different discussions there. The follow up idea presented that below a certain salary level and when the job becomes very 'difficult' individuals leave the medical profession to do other things is a comment on the individuals. And the corollary question is why would anyone allow themselves to be held hostage to this demand. Fear of dying sooner rather than later appears to be the driver. This ultimately gets mashed up into the idea that there is some right to live beyond a statistical average or some right to that 'opportunity' vs some obligation to see that health services are provided at a minimum or otherwise randomly defined rate. Different questions. Plastic surgery is a medical profession. Those unwilling to provide life saving services are welcome to enter other branches of their 'chosen profession' that pay better for acquired skills. That's not a government problem, that is again a question of empathy and morality a question of who should be accepted into medical schools and who should be granted the right to practice medicine. "They can't afford to" what? Own multi million dollar homes, drive the most luxurious cars, own second homes/boats? On $150,000 a year yes, there are some things that one can not afford. If individuals enter the medical profession and obtain licenses to practice medicine to be able to 'afford' certain things, this is not a question for the government this is a moral and an ethical question about who should be allowed to enter the profession and be granted a license to practice. The question has been shifted here or at the outset has clearly been divided between who is better suited to administer the insurance and the service parts of the health system to who should be granted a license to practice to begin with. I guess Bernie never figured out how to frame the question to begin with or always framed in incorrectly around the 'right' argument which I would agree is specious vs never addressing the obligation side of the argument.

@shuzzbot 4 жыл бұрын

So who is paying for it. It is all great putting up all these models for other countries. Show me one country with 300+ million people and an A1 no waiting great for all health care system. Even in Australia those who have some health issues are all on private they don't rely on the government system.

@jozipf.alonzo302 4 жыл бұрын

We can't look at LASIK because that destroys my argument as it is too spot on. Besides, I don't care about it so it isn't relevant to my thinking. Says the man in glasses.

@ExPwner 4 жыл бұрын

The assertion that "health economics" is different from other economics is fallacious. The Arrow paper was nonsense and rebuked as such.

@Koran90123 3 жыл бұрын

Source?

@ExPwner 3 жыл бұрын

@@Koran90123 the source for economics being always economics? That would be a tautology. For Arrow this has been widely available since it's an old paper. Here's just one takedown of it. www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/liberals-are-wrong-free-market-health-care-is-possible/254648/

@dashnja.9202 4 жыл бұрын

I get frustrated with the debate of this crony system vs Medicare for all instead of free market solutions vs Medicare for all. They both argued well that neither of these two options are the answer. I would love to hear solutions. Was glad someone asked that question, because everything is in those details.

@CraigCastanet 3 жыл бұрын

We could have a public discussion about the benefits and detriments of taxpayer healthcare, but, alas, politicians only demagogue issues, never delineating the benefits and detriments. There will be both. I see obvious advantages, but I see a couple of objections, including the argument that anyone is entitled to someone else's labor, i.e. a positive right. I think positive rights are a moral hazard. Also, codifying what I think is a poor standard of care, and ossifies all the entrenched disease causes, e.g. farming subsidies rewarding grains, sugar and see oils. And our food pyramid has its origins in Seventh Day Adventists' proscriptions on masturbation. Sounds absurd, but there are so many things wrong with our health status that won't be improved with public healthcare which adopts the status quo. I think our crony-capitalist present-day system has probably abused healthcare enough to warrant dropping my objections to at least basic healthcare. But remember that, for example, our present diabesity epidemic WILL NOT IMPROVE WITH MORE OF THE SAME HEALTHCARE. AND BIG BUSINESS WILL FIND A WAY, WITH OUR POLITICIANS' HELP, TO GAME THE SYSTEM. WHEN WILL OUR NATIONAL DEBT FINALLY HIT THE FAN? He said it. "Human right". Like I said. Positive rights are a moral hazard.

@janeleonard985 4 жыл бұрын

Halfway through and she hasn't mentioned the parts of America's system that are responsible for the things he's complaining about (government intervention).

@DrMortimer 3 жыл бұрын

Everyone make your right hand into an L, put it on your forehead, and snicker at the socialist.

@bogey 4 жыл бұрын

this is the sophisticated content we need right now!

@JohnJP1016 4 жыл бұрын

Some of the first graphs can be mostly explained by obesity, and the fact America does most of the medical innovation in the world.

@josephmcelmeel1496 4 жыл бұрын

We should just do a mixed system like Germany: Free market system, non-profit insurance companies, and rules created by the government that everyone is required to contribute; same as Medicare is taken out of paychecks in the U.S. Why are we always comparing to the U.K. and Canada? Many of the complaints below about government-run healthcare I experience in the U.K. (an American created National Health Care system). There are many positives, but like anything government-run and therefore budgeted for, care is cut by statistics on "what's best for the system as a whole" based on the countries ability to pay for it. This includes wages and therefore includes whether or not our best and brightest go into the field.

@CPubi 4 жыл бұрын

damn. i thought that was walter block

@StanleyCalderelli 4 жыл бұрын

as more fundamental were a service, as more distant must be the state.

@wanderlist 4 жыл бұрын

The US has a free rider problem - the research done and mostly paid for with our increased drug costs benefits the rest of the world. If we socialized our healthcare, we'd get fewer new drugs (how much is up for debate, but there'd still be some), but other countries would pay more of their share.

@jameswhite3415 4 жыл бұрын

@wanderlist drugs as generally 80% funded by taxpayers and as a reward we get charged a fortune for the drugs-far more than any other country on earth. I rate your claim as entirely propaganda.

@douglaswayne3149 7 ай бұрын

yes.

@TheArdeam 4 жыл бұрын

Yes.

@rondecambio7375 4 жыл бұрын

Also should be noted we have job mobility because we Always have insurance,don't have to Worry about loosing insurance in a job change

@rondecambio7375 4 жыл бұрын

In Italy I also get regular preventive care Like Colonoscopy every 3 to 5 years and regular prostate and Eye exams.

@VeniVidiVid 4 жыл бұрын

No. God no!

@caloyster 4 жыл бұрын

This is what a good faith debate and excellent debate moderation of looks like👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼 no shouting over each other. More power to you guys!

@rondecambio7375 4 жыл бұрын

Canadas system Is not the best by far that's why She Always sites It.Not mention of any of the other countries with Universal care.

@Eukatae 4 жыл бұрын

Hello Ron, I would like to take a moment to introduce you to something called a "debate". A debate is where a party for and a party against a proposition attempts to make the best case for their position.

@rondecambio7375 4 жыл бұрын

@@Eukatae Dear Eukstae, Let me explain the definition of a Word to You ,it's Patronizing.Something You do very well.You must be an American because on Health care You haven't a clue about What your talking about .You know how my nations Health System works Better than me,Ok know It all American I stand corected.I'll have to Tell my daughter Who Is an onocologist that her work Is a Fantasy.

@rondecambio7375 4 жыл бұрын

@@Eukatae If your not American get help quickly because your turning into One.!

@Eukatae 4 жыл бұрын

@@rondecambio7375 I didn't make any claim about healthcare, not a single word. I simply and patronizingly attempted to point out that complaining that the person arguing against a positions job isn't to cherry pick information you like, it is to present an argument against her opposition. Your daughter is a doctor, how quaint. I don't expect you will understand this reply any more than you understood my first comment but here it is anyway. Preach on brother.

@rondecambio7375 4 жыл бұрын

You didn't mention anything about Health care? Read your comment You made a reference to Cancer treatment fast tracking of patients.Your so into your Newspeak dribble You can't even Remember What You write! I don't even no anymore What text You were originally refering to.No matter .Now the Americans are giving lessons on 'Debate' in the Land where if You don't agree You get shouted down .Where groups that are called Anti Fascist are more Fascista then the peoole Who invented It.And as to be expected from the adolescente mentalità Americana You have a problem with the other sex,SISTER.IF You have Penis Envy I know Bruce Jenner Is not using his anymore.msybe You can make a Deal.

@ProductBasement 4 жыл бұрын

Interesting results. I was against the proposition before and after, but I think the presentation for the proposition was better. Also, please do more Q&A between the sides. Giving each 17 uninterrupted minutes is good, but then I each side should be able to cross-examine the other

@redlightmax 4 жыл бұрын

Americans really hate the idea of their taxes paying for healthcare. Tell me more about the annual budget for The Pentagon.

@redram5150 4 жыл бұрын

Gut it all.

@anastasiab9506 4 жыл бұрын

government is never efficient in managing anything - any government-managed healthcare system is going to be a disaster, just like in Canada and GB. And before we even BEGIN to discuss it, US should build the wall and protect all borders from illegals coming here in millions and sucking dry the local budgets.

@redram5150 4 жыл бұрын

Jared Theurer it’s not the American taxpayer’s job to police the world. I deny your premise

@nunereclipsereborn 4 жыл бұрын

@@jaredtheurer189 We can protect ourselves and our allies by disbanding NATO

@redram5150 4 жыл бұрын

Jared Theurer too many ifs in that sentence for me to take it seriously

@SabbathSOG 4 жыл бұрын

Is he reading? I never said anybody making argument by reading something.

@fefifofob 4 жыл бұрын

This is great!!! Now all we need is a magic money machine.

@JUSTDREAMFREE 4 жыл бұрын

Dude, Whats with the Park' dee kar in-dee dooryard jibberish? Time to evolve out of the 1800's with the rest of us and speak normal american english Jerry!

@Macheako 4 жыл бұрын

Can we still not "figure" this out? Are we gonna be debating the usefulness of Democracy again in 1000 years? Probably 🤣👌🏻

@lukutiss1324 4 жыл бұрын

Democracy is not a good system. It's just a tyranny of the majority. A representative democracy is even worse.

@Macheako 4 жыл бұрын

@@lukutiss1324 lets argue about it until the end of time!!!!

@shortchubbyneckbeard1681 4 жыл бұрын

lukutiss1324 So is your alternative... fascism?

@lukutiss1324 4 жыл бұрын

@@shortchubbyneckbeard1681 You do realise there are systems besides representative democracy and fascism, right? A democracy is a system in which the majority votes to take away the rights of others. A representative democracy is a system in which politicians with no accountability can take away any rights they please while filling their own pockets. A constitutional monarchy would be far better for preserving freedoms.

@Macheako 4 жыл бұрын

@@lukutiss1324 If you want my honest opinion I don't believe these exists, in abstract space, some "Perfect System" upon which humans will ONLY AND ALWAYS DO THEIR BEST. What you'd be describing is quite f**king literally "Heaven".... I think We, The People, are very much responsible in HOW these systems play out. We've had great kings, and tyrannical kings, we've had populations of winners, and the populations of degenerate humans. Good or Bad....it's up to us to make it so. But I'm not a TOTAL MORON haha and I can absolutely appreciate just how much the over-arching system DOES play some role into things. There's no question about it.

@filipeborges2432 4 жыл бұрын

Trump 2020

@SabbathSOG 4 жыл бұрын

I can't believe it he's going to destroy a critique. Not make the case for it. That's why I dropped out of college.

@rondecambio7375 4 жыл бұрын

She's trying to Piss up Hill!

@soapbxprod 4 жыл бұрын

Is this a trick question? Medicare is bankrupt! LMAO. Even Paul Krugman thinks that Friedman is a crackpot.

@AtlasReburdened 4 жыл бұрын

The only thing needed to refute the efficacy of US government run healthcare services is to ask someone that has used one about their experience. I can't stand people who simply speculate.

@Bill_Woo 4 жыл бұрын

But those people are innately self-interested, since they get the benefits without cost to themselves. So selfish opportunists should be believed as reliable? _As honest?_ It's like the atrociously straight-faced dishonesty of asserting that "Social Security is approved of and enjoyed - based on a 96% positive survey opinion from its beneficiaries". DUH. You get a high rating from free lunch diners, and call that "truth" ???

@AtlasReburdened 4 жыл бұрын

@@Bill_Woo You know "refute" doesn't mean "approve of", right?

@Bill_Woo 4 жыл бұрын

@@AtlasReburdened Clearly someone must have just pissed in my Cheerios today. Your self restraint in response is massive.

@Bill_Woo 4 жыл бұрын

Which is to say, oops, I'm a dunce, you are correct, and I get dumbass points assessed. This time.

@AtlasReburdened 4 жыл бұрын

@@Bill_Woo No worries mate. Single point failures hit us all from time to time.

@MooShaka89 4 жыл бұрын

If you're smart and lucky (at birth obviously) you'll be born to able parents. What LOL.

@renerodriguez5701 4 жыл бұрын

@CottageLayout 4 жыл бұрын

Absolutely not! Why would I want 12 year old girl born into a poor family to have access to insulin or cancer meds. Get a job like the rest of us, bum!