Should've Elden Ring been Open World?

[@BertoPlease]

Just a friendly reminder that if you enjoyed the game and the world, you are valid and shouldn't take anyone saying it's flawed / bad as a personal attack on your experience. There's always room for criticism on anything, and I'm sure many of the people who ended up fatigued by the end of their playthroughs wish they could've enjoyed it as well. Das all, have a good day 🤠

[@davidborned]

Unfortunately, quite the opposite has happened to me. Ever since Elden Ring came out, the game’s fanbase have been less accepting and more toxic towards veterans who doesn’t like Elden Ring (not all of course, but from my experience, a lot). It’s really sad for me to see that Elden Ring was the game that soured my opinion on the fanbase (which was a good community before, but unfortunately turned toxic).

[@BertoPlease]

@questionablezoomer764 Oh no yeah I've experienced that first hand in prior videos 😅 And if they're truly new to these games it kinda makes sense, they're walking into a community that has developed for 10 years and has been very critical of all the games. But from their perspective they had a good time with it and think we're insane for thinking it has flaws, and get defensive since """"its not a souls game anyway, get over yourselves, boomers"""" which is quite a daft thought, this game borrows so much from the previous and is really NOT that original, so it outright can't exist without them Can't wait for Fromsoft to make a non-Souls game that isn't open world and they find flaws on it, then they'll be exactly where we were and understand 🤷‍♀️

[@loubloom1941]

​​@@davidborned you're definitely exaggerating. Many of the people who love ER are also "veterans" and don't mind the game be8ng criticized. Also, the souls community has always had these allegedly "toxic" people, ER isn't anything new in that regard. You can find people complaining about 'toxicity' long before ER. Which makes me think you're not a "veteran" either.

[@loubloom1941]

​​​@@BertoPlease maybe some are new, many aren't. These people have always existed in the souls community, though. Also, virtually everyone acknowledges that ER is a souls game. So I don't know what you're talking about. ER borrows very much, you are right. It's souls in its DNA. But it still has plenty of originality of its own. Every souls game has something original to offer IMO. And to your last fromsoft recently released armored core 6, and people seem to really enjoy it in general. So there ya go. I'm sure most people know ER has flaws, even those who love it. It's just that many of the criticisms levied against ER (combat, open world) are just silly and sound like they come purely from salt. If some people didn't enjoy the game, that sucks. But it's really nobody else's fault but their own. The issue is that those people act like ER is OBJECTIVELY a bad game because they didnt personally have a good time with it. Which simply not the case.

[@davidborned]

@@loubloom1941 My point is that they turned way more toxic and gatekeeping after Elden Ring, again from my experience. I wouldn’t say I’m a veteran, but I’m not fresh either, I’m something inbetween. I started playing Bloodborne in 2017 which was my first. Sekiro and Elden Ring are the only ones I was with from launch obviously. A game can disappoint me when it doesn’t turn out to be something I thought it would be. That happened with Elden Ring, because like Sekiro or maybe even Bloodborne as well, I thought Elden Ring would differentiate itself way more from Souls than what it did, like Bloodborne and Sekiro did. I remember a lot of people said around launch that Elden Ring could’ve also been called DS4 (obviously with different lore but you get my point), and they had a good reason to believe so, but it wasn’t, it was Elden Ring… Even Bloodborne was different enough for nobody to say that it could’ve been DS3, unlike Elden Ring, but Bloodborne justified it’s own name imo. That’s one reason why Elden Ring disappointed me. You say it’s not anybody’s fault if somebody didn’t enjoy the game, and you’re right, but it’s not the ones who didn’t enjoy it faults either, ofc we wanted to like it like some other people, but the game disappointed us for various reasons, and that’s were fambases split apart and creates more toxicity and gatekeeping (the latter especially became more apprent when the devs included a new addition like spirit ashes, and I’m not one of those that defends spirit ashes existence either, I just mentioned it because it’s responsible for a lot of toxicity). I’ve seen a lot more people acting like Elden Ring is objectively the best game they’ve made just because they liked it more than other people who just explains with valdid reasons why they didn’t enjoy it as much.

[@IndustrialBonecraft]

I just burned out by the amount of overtweaked enemies that spazzed out and killed you. For the last third of the game, it just seemed like the best strategy was 'ignore all enemies and just b-line for the bonfires'.

[@samueltitone5683]

The ulcerated tree spirits in the later half of the game are especially guilty of this. No real readable moveset, they just flail at you and then you’re dead.

[@RorickSkyve]

I agree with the point in general, but not with the ulcerated tree spirits actually. Not saying they're great enemies, but their moveset becomes very predictable once you fought them a bunch@@samueltitone5683

[@loubloom1941]

Seems like an exaggeration. There are some tough enemies that I would avoid as well, but most of the enemies are fine, even in the end game.

[@loubloom1941]

​@samueltitone5683 disagree. They definitely can flail around a lot and mess with the camera, but if you watch closely enough you can read the moveset. Also, just being in the right positions will many times allow their attacks to miss entirely.

[@OrchardFox]

Sure, but are they FUN to fight? Imo: no. And that sadly goes for most Elden Ring enemies, hard or not.

[@DimiWaffle]

I feel like the issue isn't that it's open world. It's that the open world layout was designed seemingly with Torrent in mind, but everything else was designed without Torrent in mind. The bridge to the weeping peninsula for example. Without Torrent, you need to take your time and be careful getting across, but with torrent you can just space off as you rush by everything that they put there to stop you. The game itself is not designed for torrent beyond those wind jumps and one or two things. The encounters do not take Torrent into consideration. It feels like they made the map big so that Torrent was "relevant", when in reality if they made the game smaller, got rid of Torrent, and made events and barriers more frequent or more interesting the game would probably greatly improve. The biggest issue I have is how spread out everything is, I'd be fine if we even kept torrent so long as there were events specifically FOR Torrent, but those don't exist in the game. Everything that Elden Ring has to stop you from reaching your goals can be rushed past and ignored completely because of Torrent. Only does Elden Ring feel exciting when you are in a space where you can't access Torrent. Everything else feels like filler. Like it's just something to add onto how long you're playing the game. I don't like Elden Ring because of literally just that. I get bored. I feel like progression is meaningless because you can get literally everything from the start, and when you know where what you want is, it's just a matter of spacing out for 30 minutes while you run across the map trying to get to a spot to pick up the one item you need before just- running to a different spot for a different item. There is literally nothing interesting about holding down the left joy stick and the "B" button for 20 minutes straight. The game is pretty, and the first playthrough is great, but after you've seen it once.. it just ends up becoming more and more boring as you play through it again and again. Not only that but the game ending on Elden Beast really just.. makes me not want to play it. It isn't a fun fight, it's just tedious. An incredible game ending with a shit boss fight leaves a bad taste in anyone's mouth.

[@BertoPlease]

Yeah that's a very good point, and then when enemies do occasionally become a problem while on Torrent, they just end up stun locking you bc Torrent doesn't have s on anything he does, so you get knocked off and are VULNERABLE to being hit again while on your ass, which is just obnoxious. You can still run past a lot of things easily in Legacy dungeons too, which is sad

[@DimiWaffle]

@@BertoPlease I played the game mostly in co-op, so I almost never really used Torrent. Actually going through areas on foot as opposed to on.. hoof made the experience so much more enjoyable than it has been recently where I've tried to play with Torrent.

[@launcelotdulake8075]

While my personal preference would have been for a smaller, more interconnected world like DS1, I understand what Fromsoftware was going for with Elden Ring's massive size, and the vision they were committed to. "You have fought long and hard," Melina says when you reach Leyndell. That line hits with great impact precisely because the world is so big. You can look back on your journey and be like, "Damn, she's right, I really did," and yet you still have farther to go. "Long and hard didst thou fight," says Godfrey at the very end of your journey. To me, this is the most impactful line in the entire game. Every step of your long journey builds toward that line, where the greatest of all champions commends you for the hardship you have weathered, while implicitly recognizing you as his blood. This moment would not have nearly the same impact without the grandiose scope of the game world. I would hate to see Fromsoft go open world for all their games going forward, but for Elden Ring alone, it is a truly meaningful design choice which I believe they made the best of, even with the inherent flaws of open worlds as a concept.

[@MonstertruckBadass]

"While my personal preference would have been for a smaller, more interconnected world like DS1" Thank god that didn't happen.

[@flamingmanure]

@@MonstertruckBadass legit alot of souls vets think that shortcuts to previous areas are the golden metric to good level design when its laughably more than that, for example ds1 is more interconnected than bb or ds3, but the design of ds3s areas are more complex and better than ds1 and bb if you ask me, i think ds3 has the best single area level design, while ds1 has better area to area interconnectivity, if that makes any sense. ER has the most complex world design in the series no contest, its almost like theres a whole new dimension you can traverse with jumping and even your horse double jumping. overall after ERs world, going back to the older games just feels archaic, they feel like just a series of impressively interconnected rooms, corridors and hallways in comparison, and yet not a single one of the older games areas, including dlcs, comes even close to the level design complexity of one legacy dungeon in ER, now add the open world and underground which were designed for you and your horse jumping, i just find it kinda delusional to say that ds1 has better level design, i think ppl with that opinion are nostalgia drunk souls veterans if im being honest.

[@nayyarrashid4661]

​@@flamingmanureYou ER virgins hardly have any idea about the game design and why it stuck so much in everyone's mind. There is a reason why DS1 has been awarded the greatest game of all time.

[@miceatah9359]

yeah the world is big but theres literally nothing in it just the same copy n paste dungeons the same copy n paste bosses

[@Duv1995]

I absolutely despised ER's open world design. As a completionist, going through every single dungeon and getting every unique item took me around 180 hrs of gameplay, and got me really burnt out. Oddly enough this seems like the only fromsoft game that you enjoy more if you just dont try to see everything the game has to offer. And thats a bummer since I always replay dark souls, sekiro, etc and I always go for 100% even after playing them over and over and I always have a good time! It's fine if it's just a one time experiment, but I really hope fromsoft does not stick to this open world formula going forward, and that only the ER ip will continue this trend. I want a more concise, condensed, well-thought level design, I NEED IT.

[@nothanks325]

I think the biggest missed opportunity with having an open world is the lack of Roleplaying mechanics outside of Build Making. The degree they dumbed down covenants over time in dark soulsto resulting in outright removing them in Elden Ring is an example of that. It's a shame because I imagine they heard feedback that the system was too obtuse or convoluted in the older games and just needed to drop it. But I really think allying with a faction and having it effect facets of how characters treat you and the multiplayer systems react would have been a golden ticket to encouraging even more replay value.

[@BertoPlease]

The covenant system was always undercooked to different degrees; nevertheless I still miss it 😔 and yeah it would've been a perfect addition, there's so many more relevant factions in this game than most of the prior ones. You can tell they wanted to implement it with Volcano Manor and Mohgwyn Dynasty but perhaps they didn't have time to flesh it out

[@nayyarrashid4661]

I think there were some really fun covenants in Dark Souls one. Esp the Gravelord and Moon Princess covenant and also the Dark Wraith covenant. I wish they also brought back the vagrants from DS1. They brought back a few things from DS2 why not from DS1.

[@KirkWilliams300]

My issue with Elden Ring’s open world is that Fromsoft forgets some of the good lessons they have implemented successfully in previous games. For example, in Sekiro, because the player defeats most of Ashina’s elite warriors, you start to see the Interior Ministry become more aggressive in response to the weakened defenses. You see how your actions have worldly consequences. Outside of a handful of exceptions like Radahn’s meteor, I don’t really feel like you make a huge impact on the world for defeating the shard bearers or doing anything really.

[@JoseViktor4099]

Im sure they started to do this since DS3 with Its Sky void when you defeats all the lords. But ER changes but in a lesser ambit. When You defeat Fire Giant and burn the Erdtree, the main background is gonna change, which is not much, but when you defeat Maliketh you are in Capital of Ash, a greatly changed version from Leyndell. Lets see if SotE actually makes more stuff like this .

[@flamingmanure]

none of fromsofts older games implemented world changes as much as sekiros end game, thats not an issue with ERs open world, also sekiro is the simplest and slimmest game in the series, no surprise it can change things up end game like that, but frankly it had you revisit a place you were already did and re-explore ashina castle a couple times which was an annoying dip in quality, so it kinda lost the point of your actions changing anything in the world, that and the fact that i think the invasion wouldve happened with or without sekiros presence. i see the erd tree burning and filling the entire world map with its burning ashy embers as more of a change then just recycling enemies in an end game area youve already been like in sekiro. also im not sure youre correct that your actions are the reason why ashinas defenses are weakening, the ministry has been sending spies since the genichiro fight, even old ishin tells you about one after gyobo.

[@user__214]

Man, this video spoke to me. I started out the game excited about all the places to explore. But after I finished the first few major areas, new areas seemed dauntingly large, because I knew how many mines/catacombs/towers/etc there would be. The game truly did overstay its welcome. For me, a better experience would have been to keep the main content, and remove a lot of the repetitive "lesser" content. That way you'd still have the full story of the game, but just the good stuff.

[@flamingmanure]

or you can just skip the lesser content of the game and stick to exploring the things you like.

[@nacorcarmonablanco4414]

The problem, as you mentioned, is not the lenght/size of the game, but the emptyness of many, many of it areas. It seems FS just didnt have enough time to perform a proper polishment, and they did a basic, functional one enough to have green light for the release instead. Excellent game nonetheless.

[@flamingmanure]

hows the game empty? theres always something to find in every corner.

[@nacorcarmonablanco4414]

@@flamingmanure I mean from combat point of view. Theres a lot of empty spaces with little or no enemies. Whether this is intended or not... well, it has it drawbacks when consecutive playthoughs, you just rush those areas because there is nothing to do there. Pacing is good though, because indeed you always have a place to search in the first blind playthrough.

[@JuanAntonioGarciaHeredia]

@@flamingmanure casuals' opinions don't matter.

[@nayyarrashid4661]

​@@nacorcarmonablanco4414It still had more content in the open world than BOTW and BOTW is even much bigger than ER as an established IP. What you have said is technically true for every game. Once you do the first playthrough you thoroughly search everywhere be it open world or linear and if you are doing the second playthrough you just hurry through where you know there is nothing to explore. From Soft has a pretty good idea and that's why they incorporated Torrent into the basic gameplay. BOTW did this as well although you have to go a stable first or just tame a wild horse so that you can go through those area quickly. But off course it is impossible to make everyone happy.

[@nacorcarmonablanco4414]

@@nayyarrashid4661 True, although there are catacombs with literally only a docen of enemies inside. Some places feel too empty. Its a minor issue though, ER is a success for many reasons that overshadow the issues

[@rupankakalita150]

I am burnt out. The world is too big... Old fromsoft format is better.

[@roccopimenta1711]

In my opinion, to solve the problems that the open world of Elden ring has, it would be necessary to compress the map. In this way the content of the game such as weapons, armor, bosses etc. would be much more accessible for a person who wants to replay the game. I also have to add that the underground areas could have been something to connect the different regions from below, right now in the game only after beating radahn you can reach leyndell from below. and taking into account that you only fight him by entering Atlus or doing the Ranni quest. feel wasted or rushed

[@BertoPlease]

Yeah some nuance from underground would've been welcome; you technically can reach Leyndell through Deeprooth Depths if you beat 2 demigods, through the portal after Fia's Champs, skipping Altus, but it's less organically implemented than one would hope

[@erickr199]

For me, the best thing about Elden Ring is its map, and its art direction. Sometimes I boot up the game just to walk and observe its impressive landscapes that feel like you are walking into a painting. I think the only way the game could convey the massive magnitude of its landmarks is by being as big as it is. Its also amazing that Fromsoftware didn't take shortcuts to fake the size of the map, If you see something in the distance, you can actually go there. I get that for some people, the game was too long and not as re-playable as other souls games, but from an artistic standpoint, Elden Ring's map is one of Fromsoftware's biggest achievements.

[@MGrey-qb5xz]

you have way too much free time or there is not a single tree where you live

[@D.Outsider]

i have played and passed dark souls from 1 to 3 bloodborne too even tried Sekiro but elden ring was the only one I felt nothing but bored trying to play it just felt like wandering around which I understand people enjoy but for me I just felt like zoro wandering around which made me bored didn't matter how challenging it was if I was too bored to continue playing

[@skeley6776]

Half the map is empty while the map is way to big I unironically think if it was half the size it would have been way better.

[@carlschrappen9712]

Personally, I love ER's open world, primaily because of the freedom it offers. I've made the two shardbeares I killed so many different combinations depending on what my build wanted. For me at least, I'd say the open world actually enhamce the replayability.

[@MGrey-qb5xz]

i don't think open world games are great for replayability , should have just stuck with blood borne type level design

[@Astald798]

I won't lie, before Elden Ring release I was one of the people, who was talking like "open world is not a good way, it will fail, ER wouldn't be a good game". And after release and actually playing it I can say that I love ER's world and it was good way to go towards. Maybe I'll say it too shortly (there's too much to explain and I don't want to write essay why I love ER's world, because I think it's not time to explain it now), but I just love a way how that world is made and I'm having fun while exploring it/just having fun in it, even when I remember majority of it. World just gives me amazing "sense of adventure" that I really like. Also, I'll give small note - if I'd say something literally same that was said in video (or it'll be very similar), it's not like I haven't watched before commenting - I just want to say in my own words how I feel about aspects talked in the video. Replayability is something that was partially downgraded and improved at the same time for me. My runs in FromSoftware games I can split into two groups: - 100% runs (where I'm exploring whole world) - boss rushes (where I'm grabbing weapon that I want to test and I'm just beating remembrance bosses and some field bosses that I like). Part that was downgraded is "boss rush" and I think it's not surprising, because open world gives some additional and pointless running for weapons, etc. Part that was improved is "100% runs". Actually I think that saying "improved" is an understatement, because ER is the first world in FS, where I'm really encouraged to do 100% runs more than once, on my first playthrough - It comes from how addictive and fun it's world is for me. Before ER, only world where I did 100% runs more than once was DS1 (which was my favorite FS before). So, some types of the runs was downgraded for me, but it is greatly recompensated with another types of fun experience. Did the game suffer from being open world? Actually, I'd say yes, but it suffers in same way as previous games suffer from being closed games - they both suffer in "natural" way, that is just side effect of type of the world implemented in game. Closed worlds and open worlds have both advantages and disadvantages to each other, it's not like one of them is perfect in every way. For example, we can compare DS3's and ER's worlds. ER's problem, as open world, is bigger repetitiveness in aspects like enemies and many structures, that are in many cases same/almost same. DS3, while having smaller world, doesn't have problems like that and repetitiveness is minimal. But now, we can see DS3 downside (which is ER's advantage) - DS3's world is very linear and every playthrough is basically same, while in ER, in various playthroughs, you can take different way in exploring, like going to Caelid right after Limgrave and feel different experience. Should Elden Ring have been Open World? By looking at my personal love for ER's world I can say yes, without a doubt. And I think, that even when I wouldn't like this world I'll still say yes, but with less enthusiasm. I'd say that trying different world was good in same way like making totally different setting in Bloodborne or making different take on combat in Sekiro - trying your strengths in different ways is improving yourself and opening gates to more varied game design, which feels really good, because it allows more people to find what they like and give fun to more people. Is Elden Ring too big? I'd say it could be smaller (deleting mountaintops would be enough), but I can't say that I was overwhelmed by any part of ER and I never had thoughts like "I hope that world will end in a while, because I don't want to be here". I was interested by that world till the end and I was never bored by it. I think it comes from how I'm looking at games - for me boredom and being overwhelmed, don't come from big size of the game, it comes from how game is made, I've played many games that are linear and they were much more boring and overwhelming to me than open worlds, because they just weren't interesting to me. ER's world is big, but at the same time is interesting to me, so I don't feel boredom here. And the end of the comment I want to say that idk if doing another open world right after ER is good idea. Open worlds are very specific type of world and if it's repeated too many times (look at Assassin's Creed series) it becomes too overwhelming - open worlds are good, if they are made once/twice between more closed games. And also I don't want from them to totally abandon linear games. I'm sorry for essay.

[@QuackerHead-j]

No bonfire ascetics to replay my favorite Elden Ring bosses is a sin. I still haven't been able to match the pace of Morgott or Malenia because it takes hours to get to them from a new NG+ cycle. I end up just going through all of the legacy dungeons in order anyway because that's where all of the good content is located.

[@_Azurael_]

You are 100% right. I am just now finishing my first playthrough (struggling to kill Malenia, no summons, right now), I am a completionist, but more of an achievement focused completionist.I had no idea were legendary weapons, talismans, ashes or spells would be, for the 4 "collect all" achievements. There is no rule on that and I dindt want to "google"/"youtube" them. So I entered every mine, dungeons, hole I saw. I love the game, And i probably will play a NG+ or a full new game after, but I will NOT enter 75% of the places. It is unnecessary for the builds I am planning, and most bosses in side content are just duplicates anyway

[@grimreefer213]

I think the size of the game definitely suffers on repeat playthroughs, especially NG+. There is so much boring horse riding just to go from point A to point B. I think Liurnia is way too large and bloated, and Mountaintops is just barren and another boring trek like you said. I don’t think the game shouldn’t have been open world, because it definitely gave you a sense of adventure and it has some advantages being able to go anywhere at any time. I just think they bit off a bit more than they could chew and the game is too large. For NG playthroughs you have at least an hour of setup before you actually get to the good parts. On repeat playthroughs I can’t be bothered exploring most mini dungeons, or going through the underground sections where there’s hardly anything worthwhile there. I just grab the stuff I need and rush the main path. It’s like an 80 hour game with only 8 hours of actual required content, and worthwhile remembrance bosses. With all that said I still think it’s an awesome game, and it would be hypocritical of me to say that I don’t like it considering i’ve put over 800 hrs in this game.

[@loubloom1941]

I was worried when I first heard it would be open world, but I'm glad it was. For me, it doesnt feel too big, I feel like it's the perfect size for a souls game. Traversal is made decently quick by torrent and its easy to get around once you get a feel for the land.

[@jeff3221]

I have mixed feelings about Elden Ring, much like you. This was my first souls game, so, I wasn't exploring from the perspective of a souls player. Even still, I explored every dungeon, cave, mine, ruin, church, etc and I think I explored basically everything on my first playthrough. However, I got massively burnt out by mountaintops because I had been pacing my exploration with the mindset that I'd go to the Erdtree, something every npc had been telling me was my end goal, and then the game would end. Finding out the game was not even close to being finished was cool... until I hit the mountains and saw there was nothing but reused enemies and a giant empty snowfield. I got to Fire Giant, who is just a damage sponge, and got roadblocked. This massively tanked my enjoyment and meant that when I finally got past the boring boss, I thought it was finally over, I got the fire to burn the tree, ok, let's wrap this up- where am I? Faraam Azula. Great dungeon, didn't want to be there tho. Didn't appreciate any of it because I just came from white void to grey void after I was already about done with the game. Then Malekith... hate him. Finally, Ashen Capital, crush the first two bosses, now I'm duking it out with Radagon, yippie! He's dead! Yah! The game is ov- come on man... Elden Beast, what more needs to be said. When I finally finished the game, i didn't celebrate or take any real enjoyment from it, just switched it off and went about my day thinking, "Well, I'm glad that's over with." I think that Elden Ring is far too big for the gameplay it offers. BOTW didn't burn me out and you can easily argue its even more barren than ER, so why? Because in BOTW you can have fun anywhere, you can set your horse to autopilot, you have quests that require you to think and not just luck out by stumbling upon the npc again, you can get from Point A to B by launching a giant boulder through the sky and riding it. You can go directly to the final boss in 9 minutes. It is truly open once the tutorial ends. ER suffers from its gameplay (souls combat) not aligning, or rather, adapting to its new setting. You must hold down sprint to run, you must hold a direction and spam run for your Horse to move above snails pace, you cannot leap off the side of a cliff and break your fall with your horse's double jump, you don't need to engage any enemies in the open world and you actually shouldn't. Enemies drop bugger all Runes and many of them aren't designed to be fought out in the open. Hollows were originally designed for tight, enclosed spaces that would pressure you with their ability to overwhelm you and surround you. In ER, why would I risk dying to fight a wandering troop of soldiers when they give me Meh items and pocket change? I think, if the goal of this game was to give players unique experiences, you don't actually need an 'open world' so much as a nonlinear one. Would there be any detriment to the gameplay if the world was shrunk down to remove most of its bloat? DS3 still had stunning vistas while being quite linear. Emerging from a cave to see the shining Irythll city, or descending the depths of Cathus and stepping out into the Demon Ruins. I truly think that the gameplay of Elden Ring does not lend itself to the game's size. You are still just a little souls guy in a giant botw world. Now, if ER had more ways of traversing the environment, such as incantations that increased your speed, maybe an expansion of the Storm archetype, to use wind currents to make huge leaps through the air, or burst forward a great distance. If ER had stuff like that, I think I would be more forgiving of the giant, repetitious world. If you managed to read all my ramblings, thank you, I hope they were coherent and thought provoking (pfft hahaha). Tldr: game too big for mechanics, make it botw, me Grug hungry

[@JoseViktor4099]

I completely agree with you and , while I am biased towards ER, I admit that this critique is extremely well made. The thing with ER is that, no matter how you want to see it, is a 80 hours Souls game. Nothing more, nothing less. Now one of my complains with ER was that I expected a more living world. That you actually had cities, do a couple of questlines, that you can access every bit of the map you like..etc. Heck, I was expecting actual NPC, and not again the same trick since DS1. For other part, you said exploration was better in BotW, which I consider to be true, but why is that? I have another answer, and is because is a more living world, you have far more stuff than combat. You have to resolve puzzles, using the terrain at your side, do fun little stuf like find Kologs, some requirements to do certain things, a lot of objects have an individual value by being limited and not that easy to afford. And while I coul not easily say that BoTW is better game than ER, I might say that it does a far better job making you invested on the open world. Now , how could we fix these things ER has? My solution wouldn´t be actually to remove the open world, instead, to make it more a open world game than a Souls game. Just to add variety to the open world.They could even reuse existent mechanics to that, but in a more creative way. That the game has more puzzles, platforming challenges Sen fortress style, playing with genres, like Stealth, do more catacombs that are made around an especific and marked gimmick, I would not even care if the dungeon lacks a boss behind.Other thing that Idk From didn´t want to, is to make the content post Leyndell actually optional. That way you dont feel forced, instead you are just enjoying what ER has to offer.

[@BertoPlease]

Just taking a second to appreciate the writing and structure of this comment 👏 felt like it could've been a video script in it of itself

[@Astald798]

"You are still just a little souls guy in a giant botw world" - that part of your comment felt really interesting to me. I know that you said it totally different context, but I personally for me it's description why I love ER's world and why it's most immersive game for me. I know that's really subjective thing, but combat for me is most important aspect of the games and one of the main reason why I play them. And maybe that's why I like ER's world that much - it feels unique to other open worlds, because here fighting is soul of the game, like for example big and greatly developed quests in Witcher 3 are souls of the Witcher. None of the other open worlds gives me feeling like that. So, for me personally souls combat really fits the game and it turned to be something that I needed, which is big world full of combat (And it was total change of my opinion that I had before ER's release, when I was sceptical towards it). Souls formula in open world is also a reason why ER is really immersive to me - because of it, you don't feel like you are a god that destroys everything, here if you will make mistakes you'll die. It's just basically one guy vs whole dangerous world and lack of many NPCs, cities, etc. increase it even futher - you don't have that feeling of comfy and safe places, like for example cities in Skyrim, here you need to fight for yourself. Overall I think you made viable criticisms about Elden Ring. I can say that I disagree with many of them and I don't feel like some of them are necessary, but I respect opinion and I feel many of them are right, even when I think otherwise.

[@jeff3221]

@@Astald798 I'm glad you were able to find such appeal in an aspect I thought was weak. I think that you made a very good point, that so often do open world games have the player be a one man army. In that aspect, ER really does bring something unique to the genre, at least from the open world games I have played and seen. I am harsh on the game but I would say that, as a newcomer, it is a fantastic entry point into the franchise. If you haven't played any of the previous titles, you aren't going to notice the asset reuse from past games or that the general story and setting is derivative of the previous games. I think, as a product, Elden Ring is a fantastic bargain for the consumer. I've put a few hundred hours into it myself, despite my criticisms. I don't say that to lampshade my opinions but to frame my feelings as a want for improvement, rather than a 'gotcha' against a popular game. Thank you for sharing your perspective and for being so respectful. I hope you have a good day!

[@jeff3221]

@@JoseViktor4099 I think you have some great ideas for improving the vision of the game, certainly more reasonable than my nuclear approach haha. I would love to see a dungeon built around stealth, I think it'd be a really good change of pace compared to the rest of combat. From hasn't had a good track record with stealth in their souls games, so, I'd quite like to see a good stealth section or two in a sequel. I too, would have liked to have seen even just a single area with some life in it. I would just like to see an NPC walking around haha. Kass was such a great NPC because he was like a moment of refuge and also instigated a fun puzzle in each area. Hearing his music always got me excited to see a friend again. My issue with the NPCs was that they were too gamey. Elden Ring sucked me in and I'd lose hours in the world, but anytime you speak with an NPC you are ripped out of the fantasy. "Talk, conversation finishes, Talk, more dialogue, Talk, similar dialogue, Talk, ok now we're repeating, Reload the area, ok cool they teleported I can leave now." That just doesn't work for me. Also, having key npcs like your blacksmith have several lines of dialogue play every single time you go to smith something is super annoying haha. Great suggestions and it was interesting to see how you interpreted the BOTW comparison. Hope you have a good day!

[@purehollow]

For liurnia there's two warp gates that let's you skip most of the boring segments you mentioned, one leads you to the Academy's immediately and the other after the Academy's leads you to carian castle which is close to the mine that leads you to Altus which shortens the journey by quite a bit so I don't see any issues As for mountain top I wish we had a similar thing like warp gate that leads you to castle sol from the start so you skip half of the run Also I wish concentrated snow field, it's completely pointless aside from just being a boring long path to haligtree and mohgwyn palace

[@BertoPlease]

I'm aware of the warp tiles but honestly I don't like them very much in general. 0 telegraphing on where you'll end up, just trial and error, and you can easily lose track of where it even *was* in the first place. I know this comment is more referring to repeat playthroughs but unless you look it up, I don't know how many people would know how to navigate them, and it feels like a bandaid on the real issue. But I am glad they help you out

[@purehollow]

@@BertoPlease I don't understand I found them on my own without looking it up, and it's not like they are random or hard to find there's one literally at the start of liurnia where you encounter the revenant for the first time, every gate will take you to where you want if know about them so it's just a matter of you not wanting to interact with that mechanic not a problem with the mechanic itself

[@Graysett]

I think that ER being open world is great, but one full zone should've been cut off (either Caelid or, much more preferably, the mountaintops) and had its stuff spread through the others. I loved the feeling that ER was truly a massive world that felt like it'd never end, but the mountaintops were a pretty noticeable dip in quality (still like a 7/10) that ended up making the zone feel like the game was dragging on (which was immediately "fixed" when I got to Farum Azula and the Haligtree, because those areas are awesome). So in a perfect world I'd just remove it, take all the minidungeons and items and world bosses and whatnot, and seed them through the other areas to make those more dense. I personally LOVE not being forced to go through a bunch of zones that I don't want to in order to get to the content I actually enjoy. It's the main reason ER's the game I've replayed the most of the Soulslikes despite being out for the shortest amount of time (admittedly, ER still has this problem because of it locking Leyndell behind 2 Great Runes, but considering how much there is before that I still don't mind it).

[@JoseViktor4099]

I believe that ER after Leyndell should had been tackled different as well. When You beat Morgott, you could directly go after Radagon and fight him. Meaning that after you defeat him, instead of having to fight Elden Beast, you might directly get the Age of Fracture ending. It even have more sense that defeating the EB Think about It like Hollow Knight actually did It . In order to fight Radiance, you have to visit additional zones and do certain things, but you can beat It as quick as you have the dreamers requirement. What Will mean that? That all the content past Mountaintops Will be optional, and players wont get as much overwhelm by this thing. You want to play more? Sure, go after Maliketh, Fire Giant, and Godfrey, but this Will be optional, and is something that ER shines the most imo, in the optional content.

[@flamingmanure]

i think they shouldve scaled mountaintops into a really big legacy dungeon, rather than just cut it out completely, i also prefer an actual area like mountaintops over the caves and mines you find in the open world, which are ERs worst content imo, i wouldve preferred less of those tbh but theyre all optional so cant complain. to me, a perfect elden ring would be the same as now, but with 30% less evergoals(which ruin the introduction of alot of mid and late game enemies, adding to the complaint of recycled enemies and bosses) and less of those side dungeons like caves and mines, the mountaintops scaled down into a legacy dungeon, and not necessarily put a boss at the end of each and every side dungeon, maybe sometimes put a chest or just a mini boss or a trap teleporter chest, it wouldve made exploring side content less predictable and wouldve saved some new enemy encounters for late game, nullifying alot of the complaints of recycled enemies.

[@NoMitherNoProblem]

One thing I’d like to offer my own take on is the repetition of side bosses. While I wholeheartedly agree that boss variety dwindled greatly as the game goes on, I can’t help but feel that such a criticism would be much less pressing in the eyes of a lot of players if the bosses they recycled were the ones that, to put it bluntly, were just flat-out better than the ones they did recycle. Like, I’d love to avoid fighting the same boss 500 times in a row, but if I did have to do that, I’d take 500 Black Knife Assassins or 500 Crucible Knights over 500 Ulcerated Tree Spirits any day of the week.

[@saulofernandes4949]

From Soft excel in complex "3d metroidvania" many choises level design, making it open world actualy detracts from the complexity of the levels and make them more bland. Elden Ring is a gigantic game and stands on it's own in every other way, and is a great experimentation, but i think Lies of P proved that even more linear soulslikes can be exceptional. Dark Souls 1 and bloodborne nails the level design and i think that they could back to the formula but with new twists and turns.

[@Threefold.]

Awesome video. I definitely agree on your point about the quality of the painted in game map. That is one aspect of the game which is often not brought up much, but is something the game would be worse without.

[@averagecarpentryskills7148]

Here's how I would have had linear progression. Start out at bottom of map. Weeping Peninsula. Shaded Castle moved into area between Peninsula and Limgrave. Limgrave. Liurnia. Underground all of it from bottom up to top come up through sewers of Leyndell into Leyndell have to escape city. Leyndell is lower on map this way like right above Liurnia. Go through Atlus Plateau up to a moved Caelid then it leads to Mt. Gelmir and above it the Mountain top of the Giants which lead to the Halig Tree. The Valkyries are actual Valkyries and take you to Farum Azula after you beat Malenia. Then back to kiln then to city of ash.

[@UsernameyMcUsernameFace]

During my playthrough I assumed the barren-ness of Mountaintops of the Giants was intended, given that it's the site of a genocide. That was somewhat validated for me when I got to Farum Azula and the Haligtree, which were quite active in comparison. If that was the intention, I'd say it's somewhat forgivable even if they didn't get the balance quite right from a gameplay perspective.

[@BertoPlease]

Yeah I just read another comment about that too, and it's a good perspective that I didn't consider 🧐 I can certainly appreciate that if so. Hell I *would* appreciate the barren snowy area in DS2 in a vacuum, especially with how much it contrasts the rest of the game, but they really ruined it with everything else 😂

[@UsernameyMcUsernameFace]

@@BertoPlease I felt the same way about Breath of the Wild. The emptiness people complained about makes sense if you consider what happened to the place. Well I suppose I have that to look forward to! ER was my first From game. Have since beaten Sekiro and will try DS3 after AC6.

[@AbeVsTheWorld]

I would overlook the open world if From Software gave us more tools to traverse through the land more effectively. Having just a horse doesn't do much. Getting to higher land is tedious. Gotta find an ascending path to reach. Need to descend but you are too high up, find a path that goes down or do a little platforming jump on those stones sticking out. Now in Zelda Breath of the Wild, you have a glider, horse, and you can climb on terrain.

[@NAWWMANNN]

Personally, i wish From would have implemented a kind of item randomizer as a standard mechanic between runs. So that you dont just end up ignoring everything you know you dont need. I also wish the world would have been even bigger than it is

[@nickblack7910]

I personally don't mind it at all. I think its fun to explore and find things that you didn't necessarily have to find.

[@licota11]

I would just like to point out that the Tonitrus is accessible prior to Vicar Amelia for Arcane builds. I remember this vividly because I almost dropped the game with an Arcane build after finally beating BSB before getting my ass beat by one of those weird bag dudes and getting dropped into Yahargul. I went through the whole area in tense fascination and FINALLY got an Arcane weapon. I poured all my saved mats into it and the game went from masochist tier to snooze mode almost immediately after.

[@BertoPlease]

Ahh thats a good point. I guess I was thinking of specifically magic damage based things, which is SERIOUSLY lacking in the game, especially if you exclude DLC

[@licota11]

@@BertoPlease yeahhh Bloodborne kinda sucks for "mages" the first time I used A Call Beyond was also the last time, lol. Mage was a super fun experience in Elden Ring honestly, I think the Mage Towers added a lot to the world and it was nice to not have to worry about leveling for attunement slots.

[@murray821]

When I start up Elden Ring and open up the map, I always get overwhelmed and struck by choice paralysis. I simply have no idea where to go. And being able to just port out an area you struggle with is evading the challenge. In linear games you either go back and level more or try to push through. Open worlds offer too much freedom.

[@acem9947]

Choice issue

[@JoseViktor4099]

Eh, thats the thing an open world offers, some people prefer linear games for exactly this. I personally prefer the feeling of exploration DS1 and ER offers over the DS3 linearity. Because you might find something impresive and you believe that was just part of the world. But I get that some people may prefer more focused and straight to the point level design.

[@murray821]

@@acem9947I rather have map segments locked behind bosses, like unlocking Liurnia behind Godrick, and not being able to go around. But I understand that might become tedious as well. It could be a self imposed challenge to do, create map segments and set requirements before you can advance

[@murray821]

@@JoseViktor4099don’t get me wrong, Nothing beats the first play through. I love exploring, but starting a new character or ng+ feels a bit tedious. When I open up the map and choose an area to go to, I always go over it in my head and remind myself of things I encounter there. But I have that problem with more games Ive played before.

[@JoseViktor4099]

@@murray821 I believe that they had to put some QoL features that were toggable in NG+. Like putting all sites of graces in the open world, minus the Legacy Dungeons, or putting a Boss Rush as well. Hope that they something similar in the future.

[@d4nkdesu]

It's just a bit too big. Forcing reused dungeons and enemies. It'd be better if they kept it smaller. Bigger isn't better when it comes to maps in gaming. Most recent ganes which have aimed to have too big a map have kinda struggled with not making it a waypoint simulator. You spend more time travelling than actually engaging with content in the mid to late game.

[@samueltitone5683]

I was never overwhelmed in Elden Ring. The only time I was overwhelmed in open world game in recent memory is when I returned to Fallout New Vegas. In that game, practically every map marker either gives you a quest or is involved in a quest. I had a full quest log by the time I reached Novak much less Vegas itself. I never got really got that same sense of “too much to do” in Elden Ring. Sure Liurnia alone is probably as large as the entirety of the Mojave, but what is there do? The same Dark Souls stuff you’ve always done. Collecting gear, collecting upgrade materials, opening up your wiki of choice to complete NPC quest lines. And there’s about as many NPCs as there are in any of the other games. If there were dozens, that could be fine, but there’s only what? 15? If that?

[@BertoPlease]

The classic open world marker spam 🤒 sad to hear that's in New Vegas too, need to play it still, but generally hear good things

[@50-50_Grind]

For me it felt way way way too big. They could've easily shrunk the map 5 times smaller.

[@LunaMothWings]

here to tell Berto he is a good boy 👍glad you covered this discussion tbh, as someone who got put off finishing Elden Ring because of feeling way too lost and not skilled enough to explore recklessly, hearing others talk about the open world situation is something i like listening to

[@BertoPlease]

HAHA thank Luna 🥰 Yeah its a big talking point in the community, you're certainly not alone if you felt it wasn't for you

[@nickblack7910]

People don't like the mountaintops of the giants?! I love that area. And I like that the area feels like it never ends.

[@shanetheshamwow]

I have 500 hours in each souls game. All if then cause burnout due to limitations that the progression all the games take. Demon's Souls has the most replay value due to the way you can truly go whereever whenever, but it is just so easy. Dark Souls just dies after O&S. Ds2 is close to Demon's Souls, but SOTFS is a terrible remaster due to weird changes and enemy ramp up. Ds3 barely has much diversity, but beating dancer opens up a lot if you can beat the challenges after her. Bloodborne dungeons should add a lot, but are so samey you basically just get one weapon, and run through. Elden Ring is peak Open World, but hopefully the DLC limits it to more linear experiences.

[@skeley6776]

I feel like people keep complaining about SOFT because they saw like the 3 videos about it and just repeat SOFT bad like most people did with DS2 in general. SOFT is just more difficult and doesn't let u run thrue most encounters without specific spells and items.

[@magnificusdominusduxchad4229]

what i hate is everyone says its the best game ever , copy paste dungeons , bloat , copy paste bosses , bullshit boss move sets its just meh

[@tinminator8905]

As somebody who was a souls veteran, to me the open world design is absolutely flawless and never burnt me out. Maybe I pay more attention to the environmental design, but to me Mountaintops is absolutely amazing. The main openworld is filled with side content just like the earlier areas and the cinematic moments like the bridge and the run up to fire giants are the most beautiful vistas in the game and some of the most iconic moments, that completely immerse me even to this day after 700 hours. Yes it looks barren, because it is supposed to. It is an area that is meant to be like the north pole, not a winter wonderland. I love the gimmicky level design of the side dungeons, I have no issue with 20 minutes of running when I have over a hundred hours of gameplay between that. I feel like people that complain about running, in reality simply don't enjoy the open world of open world games and only play them because the rest is good. Not every game is for everyone and that is just fine. Open world games that let me go anywhere without shoving markers in my face where to go next are exactly for me.

[@BertoPlease]

I can appreciate the idea of the snowy area being barren tbh, it just would've been nice if it wasn't as long haha. And yeah I see what you mean about appreciating running around, I enjoyed the same in RDR2, and I don't think it bothered me Mountaintops the first time around, it just starts stacking up on replay when you just wanna play

[@Bunny-zg4hd]

SOTC does an empty open world perfectly. Elden Ring fucking does not

[@tinminator8905]

@@Bunny-zg4hd Elden Ring's open world isn't empty and isn't meant to be. What are you talking about?

[@Bunny-zg4hd]

@@tinminator8905 Saying Mountaintops looks barren and is meant to be

[@tinminator8905]

@@Bunny-zg4hd Yeah, looking barren and being empty are completely different things.

[@flyingdonkey9797]

Never played a single soul game before, and this one took me more than 120h to finish. I can't say I had any fatigue, besides staying awake till 8AM to finish the Elden Beast 😂 I play games mostly because of the story, and I don't play to replay it, and in that sense, I can say that I didn't have any complaints regarding the open world... After Horizons and Far Cry's, this is a real breath of fresh air!

[@truebacon133]

One thing I feel suffered in Elden Ring was Coop

[@BertoPlease]

Yeah doing coop in it is a hassle at times. Thank god for the seamless mod

[@WholesomeDungareeWearer]

I think a flaw with Elden Ring being open world is that if I only do the content I enjoy, I will be lower level and weaker than if I do everything, and levelling is more important imo in Elden Ring than any of the other games. Having runes work the same as souls in all the previous games feels a bit archaic and like there's no reason for it to still be the same other than "it's the dark souls guys, it's what they do." Dropping your runes on death is just tedious as well

[@hoggo3789]

Great video Berto. Love your critical looks at games you are passionate about.

[@BertoPlease]

🥰 hope I can do more 😌

[@sobky6378]

To me the open world is what sets elden ring apart, it’s the most praised part of elden ring is many reviews and is what makes it more than just dark souls 4 imo, to me a linear elden ring is like rdr2 without story or god of war without combat, but if you prefer fromsofts linear level design or feel the open world means the game has lots of filler/reused content then you also make a good point. There’s no right answer and I love seeing other peoples thoughts on this

[@BertoPlease]

Big agree. As I state at the end I'm still happy they did it even if it wasn't for everyone, and glad it got the success it did

[@noamias4897]

Thought this was a good and thorough video and I appreciate the discussion. My stance is that I think Elden Ring was a bit too big, but not in a way that made it less than a 10/10. I do not wish for all their future games to be open world like Elden Ring however. An ideal combination for me would be an open world the size of Limgrave and Caelid with something the size of Weeping Peninsula as extra and on top of that all the game's legacy dungeons scattered around. That's how I pictured the game with the information we were given before launch and the network testing, so Elden Ring wasn't what I expected but exploring it for the first time is one of the most enjoyable gaming experiences I've had. I do however wish as you stated that the featured less "corridor areas" where on repeat playthroughs it feels like you're making a U-turn or running in a straight line, if the map was rounder I think it'd be more enjoyable on replays.

[@daniilleonov4822]

Thank you for the video

[@TheHogfatherInvades]

I'd prefer they try something new. I miss their old linear map designs sometimes but I don't regret the open world change

[@JoseViktor4099]

For me the open world is a strange thing in ER, a lot of people are taking a different approach and when you ask them, you might discover that they were playing more like a Dark Souls game, instead of a proper Open World game. So the solution for a lot of fans is to remove all the open world, making it basically a Dark Souls 4. But, why? That wouldn´t defeat the point of an open world game? True is, compared to others extremely good open world games,like BoTW,we can see ER has a great, yet easy to overlook issue in the open world that very few people actually talk about.Some very good comments indeed, along this video, made me reconsider the ER open world design and his flaws in it. You see, one of the biggest point of BoTW (and ToTK as an extend) actually is exploration. I know that a lot of people , including myself, enjoys to wonder around an actually explored area just for fun, exploring there never gets too old, even when you completed the game with all their sactuaries. This is not something that actually happens in ER. If you defeated all the main bosses, all you have left to do is to do NG+ and to move on. You are not encouraged to do something else in general. See what is happening? So, what may be causing this effect in ER, while that did not happened in other games? Well, the issue is that the open world in ER lacks a great chunk of variety, and im not meaning that the open world does lack a great chunk of great zones , far from it,ER has a very good level designed open world where you have all kind of landscapes and zones on it, the issue comes when you dont do much with them... apart from combat.Think about what you can do in Minecraft , Terraria , BotW and ToTK. And thats the difference between this and those games. And even in that, ER takes some Souls mechanic that maybe not combine too well with what the open world tries to do. Mechanics like the non-respawning mini-bosses, or that some enemies on past zones doesn´t level at least a bit with you, completely making things like exploring Weeping Peninsula redundant if you already are in Leyndell, like taking some stuff like you are in a supermarket, or that everywhere has to be lonely and aggresive, and don't have any civilitation where you can be secure, can really interfere in your enjoyment of the open world. Another thing are that you don´t have more stuff to do than your traditional Souls, wouldn´t be cool if you have to do a side quest that isn't necesarily about breaking a bad guy face or talk with a Random NPC four times? And this Souls issue for extend can affect the dungeons. Why everywhere has to be the same little challenge that is finding a lever and go to the boss? Your player could do far more stuff , and combat can increase this feeling of course, but not making every room combat with traps is the solution. You could put balance, stealth, platforming , puzzles, combats with a twist, chase, or traps Sens Fortress Style challenges with just the basic moveset of the player. You can even go far beyond putting challenges that require certain weapons. And you wont even need to repeat bosses to archieve a satisfactory challenge. Shouldn´t the dungeon enjoyment come from the dungeon itself? Also, there is a criminally underused game mechanic that may improve crafting , the weapon crafting.Think about It like in Terraria does .Why in some dungeons, instead of giving you a weapon, gives you the *recipe* of a weapon instead? In that way, you can use the materials you collected in your way to make your own weapon, even putiing modifiers to make a magic, fire, or faith atribbutes to that weapon for an additional amount of materials. This might go for extend to upgrading materials or other stuff, armor, soceries, anything!. In that way, the build variety will go sky high, even if you may have 60% of the weapons you would see in normal ER. Dungeons also can rewards you with weapon crafting materials, so you always want to visit those dungeons, even if It gives you recipes you wouldn't find great use. Also putting post game challenges would be a very cool idea, like a Colliseum. As you can see, my solution is not to make ER a more Dark Souls game for what already is, instead, making it work more like a more proper open world game. And if you read all of this , thanks, you are my hero.

[@BertoPlease]

I think this somewhat emphasizes when I said "taking the formula of Soulsborne and just plucking it into Elden Ring so directly" or whatever I said. A lot of people kinda overemphasize how much new, original things Elden Ring does; it's really not that much. That's definitely one way to go about it tho, rethinking the formula and actually treating it like an open world and playing to the strengths of one. I really enjoy no fast traveling and survival aspects in some of those games, and I've never had the urge to do that in this game, which is sad. Could have more of a strong roleplay aspect

[@JoseViktor4099]

@@BertoPlease Thanks! Im always enjoyed game design, and I often like to consider how might I improve the games I like and the games I dislike as well in my point of view.

[@skeley6776]

People want a DS4 instead of a "proper open World" is because From Software is rly good at making Souls games. I wish they simply had a begging DS1 layout but for the hole game with a bunch of real levels because stuff like Stormveil Castel shows they can still make rly good lvls its just the Open World ate to many recourses.

[@JoseViktor4099]

@@skeley6776 I can see your point of view. Yet I honestly prefer to see these kind of experiments changing the formula for later seeing what It does works and what It doesn't. I think that you are on point that they probably failed to do a proper balance between a DS game and a open world game. My take was to make a sinergy of both, seeing It more into what ER actually tries to archieve, and not make It into essentially a complete diferent game. Thats why I would like to see this games as a standalone games that apports something, and I think that ER actually aported very interesting stuff into his level design and personalitation. If the rumors are true, Spellbound , their next game, should bring out a better balance of this aspect,being the main part of the game as you said, with a open world that only serves as a companion.

[@nickblack7910]

I like both the old games and this one

[@flabbajabba9527]

"A common sentiment among Soulsborne fans is that the map is TOO BIG for its own good" It's not really a common sentiment among soulsborne fans, as most people don't seems to mind the open world. Honestly, I never felt like the open world was 'too big' and it never led to open world fatigue since everything feels like it has a purpose. In games like Far Cry or Skyrim open world fatigue is more common because it feels like stuff is jammed in just for it's own sake, but that isn't the case in ER IMO.

[@BertoPlease]

Well then you're in a very fortunate circle for yourself then, because trust me, there are plenty of people's primary critique lol

[@Bereskarrn]

I don't usually love open-world games, but Elden Ring has become one of my favorites since I started playing it not long after release. I've been a fan of the Souls games since Demon's Souls, though, and I find Elden Ring much more interesting than the majority of open-world games due to having a mix of good combat mechanics, loads of build variety, excellent visual design, music, and lore/worldbuilding, just like the earlier Souls games besides DS2, and not feeling like any of these elements are an afterthought, unlike the majority of open-world games where their core gameplay mechanics are shallow or outright braindead. As well as the huge amount of content and sheer replay value that Elden Ring has. I don't think every area needs to be jam-packed with content every 30 seconds to be worth having in a game. I understand what you're referring to with the long run through Liurnia to get to Altus, but I think that's a problem you've created using some specific criteria and not how the designers intended you to play the game or get through that area. Every time I'm in Liurnia for the first time on a new playthrough, I don't run straight through to get to the Grand Lift. I stop along the way to do a few dungeons, like the Latenna one and the Miner Bell Bearing ones, to grab the Haligtree Secret Medallion part, all the Sacred Tears and Golden Seeds, the various Memory Stones from the mage towers, the Academy Glintstone Key, and I'll usually go through Raya Lucaria too since Rennala has the quickest Great Rune you can get. Mountaintops of the Giants is a bit larger and emptier than the other parts of the game, but I don't necessarily view that as a problem. All the Souls games have had parts in them that are mostly about silently traveling from one place to another. Dark Souls in particular comes to mind, but so does Demon's Souls with areas like the Valley of Defilement and parts of Worlds 1 and 2, as well as parts of Dark Souls 3 such as Farron Keep and the DLC areas like the snowfield and the Ringed City swamp. I'm glad Elden Ring brought back some of these elements after how heavily Dark Souls 2 and 3 leaned into the "fast travel warp everywhere from the start of the game" style of world design.

[@ToweringPepsiMan]

I feel like if FromSoft makes a 2nd open world (whether that be DLC or a new IP) it will be perfect. As in Miyazaki will learn from the mistakes and successes of Elden Ring's map

[@JoseViktor4099]

If rumors are true, a game that has a lot to do with Magic that is half open world, half Big Legacy Dungeon like DS1 is developing at the moment. It seems to be 3/4 of ER. Im looking foward for the proyect

[@BertoPlease]

Here's hoping 🙏🙏

[@specialnewb9821]

Love the open world. I wish the legacy dungeons were better/bigger and there were more of them. I wish there was a bit more landmass. I am definitely a completionist and I love that there is always so much more. I love riding the horse for minutes on end too. But I like travel in general. Done 3 playthroughs so far. So I completely disagree with you on that.

[@gongal]

Game is a definitive proof that the more copy pasted garbage you will put into the game the more succcessful it will be

[@Jonas-ob2sh]

Games becoming more linear at certain points in the progression is nothing new. In Ds1 for example after you've rung two bells of awakening the path becomes linear for certain time to give the game some forward momentum, the pacing becomes more fast paced in a sense and the game reaches mid-point climax with Ornstein and Smough and when you obtain the lordvessel. The same thing happens after you've obtained all the lordsouls and when you reach the kiln, however, like with Elden ring's end-game is also disappointing with it's content.

[@JoseViktor4099]

I believe that one of the biggest attractrive of ER , like it or not, is the open world itself. Without it, some things wouldn't have the same effect because would be part of s game, instead of part of the world. The main reason maybe because they wanted to make an open world, and they used the exqueleton of Dark Souls, without the open world we just would have Dark Souls 4 , a game for a already ended trilogy.

[@mikemuller59405]

YES

[@flamingmanure]

the open world is something thats legit better designed for freedom based exploration, as a whole, ERs level design and how it ties exploration to it on a design level makes its level design better than all the other games combined, yes including ds1, which now feels like an impressively interconnected series of rooms corridors and hallways with a pretty skybox in comparison. not a single area in the older games, including their dlcs, come even close to a single legacy dungeon in level design complexity, and that's because theyre designed with jumping in mind, now add the open world and underground to the mix where theyre designed for your double jumping horse, and i find it laughable to say the older games have better level or exploration design. going back to the older games now just feels dated, guided and archaic. basically just a series of corridors and hallways with shortcuts in-between, theres no actual feeling of a "world" per say in the older games after ER, with ds1 being the only one that does feel like a world.

[@festeringfingerprintvicodin]

The discourse about the open world being too large is very funny to me 😂 I have empathy for all the fans who are overwhelmed by the game size but omg it’s not that bad

[@BertoPlease]

I think looking back in hindsight its easier to feel like maybe it wasnt that bad, but idk going through a first playthrough when the map slowly uncovers, then you reach Mountaintops and you realize theres still more, it can be overwhelming for sure 😰

[@festeringfingerprintvicodin]

@@BertoPlease 100%! I didn’t mean to sound so bitchy in my original comment LOL I just want EVEN MORE ELDEN RING xD

[@ferbsol2334]

No

[@zun-viik]

If going through the same areas hurts your replayability then so would ds3 considering it's literally linear

[@JoseViktor4099]

Well, this is not an attack of ER, but an explanation of what he said. Because you expend a Big amount of time just travelling with your Horse to one point to another with not much to do, unless you want to explore.

[@BertoPlease]

Ironically that's what makes me reconsider when I think of replaying DS3 lmao

[@turtletoaster4875]

open world yes, not even gonna watch the video but yes it should've been open world

[@Arisdex]

Elden Ring is 30hr Horse Simulator for skipping 90% of useless items and copy pasted dungeons.😂 So boring

[@NAWWMANNN]

Sounds like a skill issue m8, making you bitter

[@MonstertruckBadass]

"Soulsborne fans" should stop living the past or stick to their inferior games instead of shitting on elden ring for it's awesome open world.

[@BertoPlease]

Someone didnt watch the whole video 🧐

[@MonstertruckBadass]

@@BertoPlease True.

[@nokne]

Sorry but you're wrong about bloodborne requiring players to complete all areas/bosses. You only need to do central YH, Cathedral Ward, Forbidden Woods, Burgenworth, Yahar Gul, Mensis, and then either Wet Nurse/German, Moon Presence. That means upper CW, Old YH, Hemwick, Cainhurst, Nightmare Frontier, and chalice dungeon are optional and players can do them if they want to.

[@BertoPlease]

When I was listing examples, I wasn't including completely optional side areas (you may notice Painted World and Ash Lake are excluded from DS1 for instance), so from the ones you listed, only Old Yharnam is skippable if you do Cleric Beast, which is nice for early game exploration but then after that it does tunnel very hard into end game. I think the way the side areas are implemented help it a lot though, more than DS3, in making it good for replayability, because the side areas tend to have goods you'd REALLY want, like a ton of upgrade materials

[@nokne]

@@BertoPlease from forbidden woods it does yeah. DS3 definitely the worst, no idea why they give players the pseudo-choice to go to either cathedral of deep or farron when you have to do cathedral for the doll for irithyll anyway. Problem with ER world is the "open" areas where you're just trekking around until you decide to go to the actual area. The spaces between the areas really don't help the game's pacing.