Should you buy a GaN Power Adapter? Or is it a scam? || Testing GaN FETs!

[@noanyobiseniss7462]

So in short GAN is not a scam but the adapter that didn't have one in it is! :)

[@MisoNyah]

Of course it's not. But it seems like these get 5-star ratings anyways. "100% as described" lol. The artist impression renders show way more components too.

[@andreasu.3546]

China at it's best again.

[@Mobin92]

Buy uGreen brand if you buy such things from China.

[@Sylvan_dB]

@@Mobin92 Hmm, why? I have had good results using Aukey and Anker and almost as good with RAVPower. Those first two I trust, but I will consider RAVPower before other brands.

[@mbaksa]

It is questionable what should be called a GaN power adapter. For example Baseus 65W GaN charger also doesn't have individual GaN transistor, but it does have GaN(Fast) power IC Navitas NV6115, which, from what I can tell, has an integrated transistor. Maybe that Kuulaa has similar GaN power IC as well, "hidden" somewhere on the board?

[@Arctic_silverstreak]

GaN and Mosfet: _fighting_ Silicon Carbide: _Record the fight_ IGBT: _watching from far away_ Bjt: *in the corner* Ujt: _buried in the grave_ Thyristor family: 👏👏 *impressive* Vacuum tube: _in the hall of fame_

[@c.schandra2134]

You forgot vaccum tube in hall of frame

[@greatscottlab]

Great story ;-)

[@juntendo6104]

Toggle switch: Intense clicking

[@juntendoagar7610]

SiC fet: SiCk fight!

[@constructdaily]

Ya he forgot vacum tubes😂😂

[@Asu01]

Your mid-air circuit has some sort of ElectroBOOM vibes to it, minus the explosions though.

[@greatscottlab]

I take it as a compliment ;-)

[@andre7417]

@@greatscottlab Explosions add a bit of flare to the video though...

[@vincentguttmann2231]

It's all movie magic these days, isn't it?

[@panjak323]

Also tons of parasitic inductances... 🤔

[@TriggerThat]

@Asu You mean "Hacktuber vibes", right? ;) For those of you who don't know Hacktuber check out his channel, pretty cool...in his own way.

[@ResurrectionofMC]

GaN Fets are maybe not a scam but some Products wich say they offer GaN Fets :D Because they use traditional cheap mosfets and to increase their margin with the GaN selling point

[@tedhancock68]

I noticed how a completely false claim like that basically goes unacknowledged. We're so used to Chinese lies that a complete lack of GaN components doesn't even register. Sigh.

[@GeorgeTsiros]

@@tedhancock68 wouldn't be surprised if there is small writing somewhere in there that says something along the lines of "using common mosfets that provide 90% of the efficiency of GaN transistors" or something equally bullshit. Seriously, fuck those guys.

[@BrosBrothersLP]

@@GeorgeTsiros thats not how GaN increases efficiency the main advantage is a higher switching frequency this decreases inductor size and thus copper losses. Also the power to switch them on and of can be comparativly small

[@CJDavies]

I think what's more important to most consumers than minor savings on their electric bill is actually the simple fact that a GaN charger can be physically smaller than a traditional silicon based one of equivalent power output.

[@kortakon]

I think what matters most is the health of the battery in the $1000 phone!

[@eryksokolowski8706]

Nice video, Big advantages at GaN over fets is at high current applications such as inverters for auto/motor industry... You missed the point that the reason why they are used in domestic applications is that they allow for smaller inductors due to faster switching therefore miniaturisation...

[@greatscottlab]

True. I could have talked about that a bit more in detail. Thanks for the feedback :-)

[@oraszuletik]

You will see it, when Apple will show their next "smallest ever", "industry first" power bricks for their products. 😉

[@gplustree]

first thing I did when I finally got a laptop with USB-PD power input was ditch the manufacturer power supply for a name brand GaN power supply which is noticeably smaller and doesn't get as hot. for me it was all about size in my backpack.

[@n.shiina8798]

agreed. i ditched my original 45W laptop power brick and 18W phone charger for 65W GaN. one power brick both laptop and phone with smaller footprint is convenient.

[@44R0Ndin]

@@oraszuletik You mean the same ones that "mysteriously" fail almost exactly a whole number of months after they're purchased? Built to fail. Especially Apple products. Their design department is always pushing for "smaller lighter more stylish" but the laws of physics just say "Nope. It's gotta be at least THIS size, Of course, with Apple stuff most of the time (especially with the laptops) it's the charger CORD that fails despite being well treated and having a magnetic disconnect (do they still have that?) and is not replaceable independently of the charger unlike a phone power adapter, so you must get a whole new over $100 charger. To you, that's a financial setback. To Apple, that's Profitable. Whereas with any other brand of product that uses USB-C PD for charging, the cable will be something significantly more structurally sound than a single strand of spider silk, because they actually spent the money and "sacrificed" the "good" looks of a thin cable to include some structural reinforcement in the sheath of the cable (or maybe even put a fiber braid on the outside to resist abrasion, at least on the really high quality ones). In other words, it is built tough enough to withstand an accident or two. With an Apple charger, if that magnetic disconnect is actually required to do its job more than 100 times it's probably time for a new charger. Point being you have to baby Apple products to get them to last, you don't always have to do that with alternatives. Pay More, Get Less, and along the way forego any form of meaningful easy compatibility with any other non-Apple thing, it's the Apple way. For what it's worth, Dell does the same thing sometimes, so just because it's not Apple doesn't make it good. But for sure you want to avoid Apple if you can. Did I mention that Apple is also distinctly AGAINST "Right to Repair"? So if Apple had their way, and got the laws changed to their liking, fixing your iPhone's cracked screen on your own following a KZbin video, even if (especially if) you did it right and got a functioning device out of it, would land you IN JAIL, or at least hit with a heavy fine. With cars at least we have the Magnusson-Moss warranty act to make that illegal (meaning independent auto repair shops can legally be a business and make money, and the automakers are required to divulge at least enough information to make it possible to repair their products and are furthermore required to provide LITERALLY ANYONE WHO WALKS IN OFF THE STREET the capacity to buy genuine same-as-the-dealer-gets spare parts). Honestly, I'm not sure how Tesla is avoiding a whole big mess with that specifically, because not only do they not divulge any real information about how their stuff works, they also won't let you buy any spare parts, and even worse if Tesla catches wind that you repaired or maintained the vehicle at a non Tesla authorized service center (which are always hopelessly over-booked because there's not enough of them) they'll turn off one of the primary reasons to even get a non-Roadster/Model S Tesla, which is the Supercharger network access. Tesla, Apple, and Dell all don't really care about you, the consumer. They care about you, the consumer's wallet, and the fastest way to empty it.

[@anotheruser9876]

"Stay creative....and I will see you next time!!!" *Covers webcam just in case.

[@slowpokejpg]

Damn lol, that outro is so enthusiastic at this point that it almost sounds like someone is screaming a threat at you.

[@siberx4]

Simply swapping a GaN FET into a given switching circuit will provide only modest gains; the main advantage is that you can then use a higher switching frequency without the gate charge becoming a limiting factor for efficiency, so you can reduce the size of your other components and by extension reduce losses in them too. You also covered both gate charge and on resistance independently, but the real benefit with a GaN is the ratio or relationship between these. You can easily get silicon MOSFETs with on resistances way lower than the one you looked at, but it would have a huge gate charge which increases losses elsewhere in the circuit. This relationship can be considered a "figure of merit" for comparing switching transistors, and it's simply much better in GaN fets at any size/rating. In general, the end result is much *smaller* power adapters with slightly better efficiency; in practice the efficiency of a USB adapter really won't have a major impact on somebody's power bill (because USB devices are only a small fraction of somebody's total power bill), but having a smaller adapter for the same output is a definite advantage to most people! As another aside, silicon carbide is also starting to be used in power applications (similar "figure of merit" improvements compared to silicon). Due to their characteristics, you'll usually see GaN used in lower power and lower voltage applications (like consumer power adapters) while SiC is often selected for higher voltage applications like inverters in electric cars.

[@my3dprintedlife]

I love the crossover between material sciences and electronics! Thank you for the video!

[@greatscottlab]

Glad you liked it!

[@nickolai152]

both go really well hand in hand. i had to learn basic material science for my bachelor's in electronic engineering

[@monotrope]

@@nickolai152 We had like 2 chapters on material science, that's about it. How much did you have?

[@CalMariner]

I always find myself so in awe of your clear, square drawing skills

[@SeaMushroom98]

One of the big selling points of GaN chargers as I understand it is also power density. Because we can switch faster, we can use smaller storage components in the DC side. This means that we can end up with a charging brick that is drastically smaller because the Caps can be way smaller.

[@bigclivedotcom]

This is reminiscent of the "graphene" power banks. They just add a new buzzword as a sales gimmick. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the promise of hundreds of watts of power in tiny plug-top PSUs. The words "bang" and "skidmark" come to mind.

[@monotrope]

Well why would you want a giant power supply if a tiny one can meet the same efficiency, performance, safety, and reliability as a bigger one? Not saying the current offerings do but they could in the future. Also, they need to be earthed for damn sake.

[@lmaoroflcopter]

@@hoodsonpatrisal1734 well... Only 2% more efficient it seems, if that's what you're calling substantial.

[@andrzej_autko]

@@lmaoroflcopter op said that the difference could be different in a properly constructed testing enviroment, efficiency test is only one of few conducted in the video

[@lmaoroflcopter]

@@andrzej_autko yep I know. It could be. It could also not be. What we do know is that it was 2%.

[@diablominero]

​@@monotrope The smaller the space you cram a given amount of energy into, the more enthusiastically it'll try to get out and blow up. If a tiny power supply really does offer the same safety and reliability as a big one, obviously there's nothing wrong with it, but it's very easy for manufacturers to call a piece-of-crap product ultra-safe and ultra-reliable. If you think you're going to work with explodey garbage either way, and you know what power rating you need, it's better to work with bigger pieces of garbage, so when they explode it won't be as vigorous.

[@largepimping]

GaN FETs are not a scam, but sure looks like that the "GaN" power adapter you bought is...

[@mbaksa]

That transistor was not GaN, but that charger might have GaN power IC with integrated transistor somewhere on the board, like Baseus 65W charger has Navitas NV6115 GaN power IC

[@TRMasterZED]

Yeah, like few decades ago they would write something like "Made with Sony components" on the Box as a sellingpoint and there would be like one tiny Sony capacitor on the board or whatever they could get at the lowest expense. Marketing, Marketing never changes...

[@AmstradExin]

@@TRMasterZED Better sony than sorry, I guess... *shrugs*

[@TRMasterZED]

@@AmstradExin But wouldn't you find this level of marketing downright criminal? Imagine buying something and paying more, maybe to get something with better quality. Just to find out it was the same cheap crap everyone else got, but for 3 times the price and with an glossy Box.

[@sepg5084]

@@TRMasterZED if they did not lie and did not break any law, then it is technically not a crime. If someone advertised that their device is made with sony components but did not have a single sony component in it, then you can try to sue if they broke a law. If they advertise that the thing they are selling is made entirely with sony components but at least one component is not, then they are lying and you can try to sue if they broke a law.

[@bskull3232]

So, a few things to point out (I play with power electronics for a living. I have a PhD on the topic of series connecting normally on power devices to obtain self balanced high voltage power modules. I now work in China for a state sponsored power electronics research facility, particularly on consumer and data center GaN and SiC applications): 1. GaN FETs are not nearly as expensive as depicted from DigiKey/Mouser. Western distributors are known to add a lot of profit on hard to sell (niche) items like GaN/SiC transistors and FPGAs. The real cost of those things rated for a 65W adapter (130~180mR typ., 600~650V max.) in China is around $1 for Chinese parts (InnoScience, etc.) and $1.5 for Western parts (GaN Systems, etc.). A comparable state of the art Si device will cost you $0.5 for Chinese parts (Wayon WMZ26N65C4) and $1 for Western parts (Infineon IPL60R185C7). 2. Transphorm makes D-mode GaN, which is normally on. They have a reliability advantage due to the lack of atom-thin gate structure, so they are commonly used in automotive applications and military RF applications. For consumer stuff, E-mode is more commonly used due to it being normally off. To make a D-mode device normally off, you need to series connect a low voltage Si MOSFET, so when the MOSFET is off, the drain potential of the Si MOSFET (which is tied to the source of the GaN HEMT) is pulled high, since the gate of the GaN is tied to the source of the Si MOSFET, the GaN sees a negative voltage on its gate with respect to its source, so it turns off. So what you are measuring is actually the input characteristics of the Si MOSFET, not the GaN. 3. Gate charge determines how easily and efficiently the FET is driven, not how it outputs (for most high voltage applications, Qout is much more important than Qin due to much higher Vds than Vgs). For GaN, the output figure of merit number does not look good, even for E-mode devices. Only in very few applications like QR flyback GaN has a marginally advantage compared with Si, and even that is mostly for marketing reasons. For most applications, rest of being able to be driven faster and switch faster (which can be done equally well with well designed Si drivers, anyway you are limited by EMI regulations), they do not possess a much better performance compared with Si. 3.1: A few months back I did a round up of power FETs, I tested saturation current to output capacitance@100V ratio at a few given Vds, Vgs and Tj of a few top Si super junction MOSFETs (Infineon, Wayon, Toshiba, ANHI) and a few GaN E-mode HEMTs (InnoScience, GaN Systems) of similar voltage ratings. It turns out GaN has not only no advantages to those top Si MOSFETs, they lack by a huge margin. 4. About reverse recovery, E-mode GaN does not have a reverse recovery charge, but they have horribly high Vf in third quadrant freewheeling mode, some 3V~4V. Cascade D-mode GaN does have a reverse recovery charge from the series connected Si MOSFET body diode. This can be alleviated by parallel connecting a low voltage Schottky diode with the MOSFET, but so far I've not seen this being done, probably for patent reasons. Cascade devices do have lower freewheeling Vf due to the GaN is in conduction mode (since there can't be a gate bias voltage from nowhere and they are normally on), the only Vf (other than Rdson*If) comes from the body diode of the Si MOSFET. 5. Some of the smallest and densest chargers are Si, like the Delta Innergie 60C. The biggest reason why GaN is massively used in chargers is because Xiaomi invested in a large portion of Navitas and Xiaomi wants Navitas to bloom, so Xiaomi used its consumer electronics market dominance to drive the market towards GaN. When other companies see this novelty marketing makes money, they so the same, that's what landed the market now what it is. 6. This website (www.chongdiantou.com) is probably the world's largest charger teardown database. When in doubt about a charger, search here. It is only offered in Chinese, but you only need to see the pictures, not the marketing verbiage. References: 1. My visits to suppliers. 2. Trahsphorm website, VisIC website. 3. Trahsphorm website, VisIC website and USCi website. 3.1. drive.google.com/file/d/1HD702LLCCjSAPlnAypknSWk10G7jkWs5/view?usp=sharing 4. EPC, GaN Systems and Transphorm datasheets. 5. Innergie kickstarter page and some market research reports. 6. The website itself.

[@contacticergi3086]

This is one of the most informative and respectable comments I ever came across on KZbin. I would love to pick your brain for a few minutes if I ever have a chance :)

[@c.schandra2134]

It's newly discovered but amazed to find it these early in device

[@linuxguy1199]

GaN shit is huge in RF, basically makes all 5G stuff possible since it has a flat (near 50) impedence up to 150G almost

[@c.schandra2134]

@@linuxguy1199 any thing better than GAN

[@MillerIndustriesInc]

It's not newly discovered at all lmao, they've been working with it in universities for decades

[@altimmons]

It’s not that new. It’s newish

[@altimmons]

And actually- don’t quote me on this - but I think just maybe it’s actually older. I feel like they were looking at this then found out silicon was way easier and did that and now they’re going back? I could goggle and check but don’t care. Maybe that was Germanium (Ge)

[@rocketgirl3366]

I'd be interested to see GaN being used for other circuits, like ESCs, and if it has significant differences.

[@greatscottlab]

Good idea :-) I will see what I can do ;-)

[@fabiofoltran4361]

@@greatscottlab maybe they are better in HV ESC ? Like servodrives ?

[@tommihommi1]

as far as I know GAN is used widely in EV chargers

[@arnislacis9064]

ESCs don't use such a high frequency. Regular MOSFET should do just fine!

[@theFLCLguy]

How is there a 2 week old comment on a video that just released?

[@f.d.6667]

As a marketing guy (formerly in product development), I need to tell you that the vast majority of consumers want a low purchase price in combination with big brand name, giving them status amongst their peers. A smaller group wants good specs (on paper) - so they can justify the purchase. Only a small minority has the mental horsepower to separate important features from marketing fluff and eye candy and will base purchasing decisions on validated performance.

[@martinum4]

I always go straight to the spec sheets, fuck the marketing fluff

[@f.d.6667]

@@martinum4 Specs on paper are nice, *validated* properties are better - especially when ordering directly from China.

[@xRepoUKx]

Consumers want chargers that charge quickly and don't cost much. Not setting the house on fire is optional.

[@jasperyoung2466]

Couldn’t agree with you more. I learned from buying tech throughout the years to remain skeptic despite the spec sheet. There are factors to consider that goes beyond technicalities. Real-life performance is a completely different thing. Something can be excellent on paper but executed poorly.

[@Bhavesh_g20]

it feels so good whenever I see your video you give a lot of knowledge I listen to all understands a little but in front of my friends I feel like I have learned a lot from your video staying creative and waiting for your video eagerly

[@greatscottlab]

Thanks for the feedback :-) Thanks for watching :-)

[@iamkrishnendudas]

Yes.. in front of my friends I also feel that I've learned a lot..😆😆🙂🙃

[@Bhavesh_g20]

@@greatscottlab I feel so nice whenever you reply on my comment

[@daniel_960_]

It’s really awesome that the chargers are now much smaller at same power. 100w bricks aren’t that bulky anymore. That’s the main difference that gan tech makes.

[@greatscottlab]

True. It makes everything smaller.

[@funtechu]

I think one of the main reasons why GaN is still expensive is that the wafer diameters are typically smaller than silicon wafers (4 or 6 inch vs 12 inch). However they have been increasing in recent years, so that that may reduce the cost eventually.

[@BRUXXUS]

Why are they only manufactured on smaller wafers? Guessing something to do with growing the crystal and common manufacturing machines and processes?

[@funtechu]

@@BRUXXUS Yeah that's not exactly my area of expertise, but I believe it has something to do with the high defect rate of GaN making growing larger crystals difficult. There have been some breakthroughs though in the last 10 years or so which have helped. Nowadays the wafers are mostly GaN on Silicon, and a quick search also turns up stuff for GaN on sapphire.

[@angst_]

The moral of the story is: Don't pay more for a GaN adapter because they'll probably lie to you and send you a silicon one anyway!

[@smeezekitty]

Also even if it gives you 5% more efficiency, who cares? Charging devices are not a significant source of most people's power bills. I would rather value a charger that lasts a long time and delivers its rated power.

[@angst_]

@@smeezekitty Yes. It's like, $1 per year to charge a phone XD so a charger that charges fast and lasts long is a better investment. Preferably anything that provides a decent clean/stable voltage.

[@richardlighthouse5328]

@@smeezekitty In off grid situations, having more efficiency is better and we shouldn't waste energy.

[@diamondfailer11]

@@richardlighthouse5328 Even with solar panels there is no waste. The amount of power your phone consumes is negligible. If you're a power user, you'll use say 15Wh per day. That consumes as much energy as running one or two LED or CFL lightbulbs for one, single hour. Yet boiling some water with an electric kettle is easily 80Wh or more.

[@richardlighthouse5328]

@@diamondfailer11 How about server farm.

[@christian104]

What I like about GaN the most is the size. Getting a 65w GaN charger is much smaller than a silicon one. One company even makes a 20w GaN charger in the same space as Apple's old 5w charger.

[@DrBeat-zs9eb]

Did you even watch the video?

[@kyoudaiken]

@@DrBeat-zs9eb He's right though. You can use higher frequencies which makes it possible to use smaller inductors.

[@davadoff]

The Apple charger works. The “one company” 20W charger probably has fake specs or cooks itself. The 5W Apple chargers have a 1A limit otherwise the output diode would get too hot. If it was 20v maybe it could do 10W output, especially if it had a synchronous rectifier to reduce heat. All without GaN.

[@ahmedkotb3912]

GaNs are definitely not a scam. With GaN, MHz converters are realized decreasing volume of power supplies. I worked on a 1.2kW Power supply with GaN HEMTs, we were able to achieve titanium efficiency because the GaN allowed us to use a bridgeless topology which would have been impossible with silicon FETs.

[@lernenmitrobin]

I also tested Baseus 65W GaN-PS in my lab. @ 240V AC, it made 68W and @ 120V AC it made the promised 65 W by getting pretty hot, but still reliable! Nice product --> using it every single day.

[@D4no00]

oh yes, melted oscilloscope probes, now that is the sign of prototyping.

[@greatscottlab]

Haha yes ;-)

[@andydickinson4018]

@@greatscottlab And screwdrivers as an 11 year old I accidentally shorted a coil from an old motor whilst testing if it was good for an electro magnet blew the mains power fuse and received a severe ticking off for messing with mains power. I still have the screwdriver as a reminder to be careful near high voltages

[@elhussin5687]

@@greatscottlab sir do gan chargers drop a voltage i have one but instead of 9volts its 8.8 volts output at quick charge 18watts is this a scam gan charger?

[@TheUnknownCatWarrior]

The *floating* circuit is missing the explosions that electroboom usually hosts

[@Harrstein]

A think I liked when working with GaN fets was that you could bump up the switching frequencies, which would enable you to run smaller components

[@spudhead169]

The stray inductance that circuit must have been dealing with at the fet gate makes me amazed the fet didn't fail with that crazy ringing before you snubbed it. The snubbing may also be where you were losing efficiency. But that being said, it could imply these GaNFETs are more durable. The lack of the reverse diode effect does unfortunately exclude them from many neat uses of mosfets, like reverse polarity protection.

[@nathanadhitya]

Hol-up, you forgot to attempt taking off the "GaN FET" from the charger, and the MOSFET from the charger. I want to see you change them to the one you bought and see the improvement.

[@greatscottlab]

Well, if the circuit is not made for GaN FETs then there can be problems by simply replacing them. Think about the RC snubber I had to add in the video.....

[@dogwalker666]

@@greatscottlab I hope you reported the Scammer.

[@kyoudaiken]

@@greatscottlab You can simply add the snubber network.

[@ArenasWorld]

Regardless of the technology inside, I'm happy with my new Xiaomi "GaN" charger. I've looked up a teardown (free document on ResearchGate) to see how they fit a 65W PD charger into such a small space, and the engineering is on point!

[@dinshithd515]

I like to call you a great teacher. Because you are giving all informations about your project, which are very helpful for us study more.

[@greatscottlab]

Thank you :-)

[@vadimemelin2941]

Thanks!

[@greatscottlab]

Thanks for the support :-)

[@nshattock]

The issue with your circuit is that the parasitics will dominate. With correct layout you should switch much faster. this fast switching means that the inductor can be much smaller and also run at lower flux densities

[@drewb671]

I was getting an aneurism watching this. The poor circuit layout causes the high voltage spikes with GaN. So he adds a snubber to slow the switching speed way down, then wonders why the efficiency is comparable. ... I appreciate what he’s trying to do in the video but it was a poor show case for the benefits of GaN.

[@szilardliptak6466]

I'm a big fan of your channel and I'm no expert, but I think you missed the main point about GaN devices. They're meant to be run at higher frequencies and higher voltages than silicon devices, so simply swapping them out of a circuit and expecting significant change is not a fair comparison. Comparing them like this is like comparing a Formula 1 car to a Fiat Polski and claiming the difference is only 2%. GaN devices are so-called "wide-bandgap semiconductors" which means they can take higher voltage and higher temperature than silicone (3x the bandgap means 3x the "conductivity" or 3x the breakdown voltage). As you also said, they don't have reverse recovery issues and have faster switching times, therefore they can be run at much higher frequencies. Higher temperature tolerance (smaller heatsinks) and higher switching speed (smaller passives) mean the whole design can be much more compact which is essential for mobile applications (like electric cars, planes, etc). That's the real strength of GaN. This brings us to the problem with this comparison: parasitics become very important at such high frequencies (we're talking tens of MHz here!). Building a 12V converter using through-hole components and dangly mid-air wires with huge loops (not to mention the lack of decoupling capacitors or that loop on that RC snubber) creates a lot of parasitic inductance and switching losses which defeats the purpose of using GaN in the first place. To make a fair comparison I think you should 1.) get a real GaN USB supply (should be easy to find as they're smaller and more expensive) or 2.) build a proper converter using SMT components and a high-frequency board. Again I'm a big fan of yours, but I think GaN got an unfair treatment in this video.

[@peterheynmoller2581]

Hi, great job at breaking down such a complex topic to an understandable level! I would like to add though that the main advantage/power saving of the smaller GS and GD capacitances is not the lower power consumption of the gate driver but the shorter switching duration, which in hard switching topologies (such as the forced commutated, not resonant) converters like buck/boost converters or inverters lead to way lower switching losses. In general, swapping a Si-FET out for a GaN HEMT is possible but you have to be careful since the fast switching is prone to amplify any EMI problems.. And the real benefit is of course on the system level and is only realized when everything else is designed with GaN HEMTs in mind.

[@DrBeat-zs9eb]

5:34 is your power supply a scam or not? I would say so if it has a normal mosfet....

[@wesleythomas6858]

Maybe put the GaN FET in it and try the test again?

[@DrBeat-zs9eb]

@@wesleythomas6858 would habe been very interesting.

[@MCsCreations]

Well... It definitely seems like a step up from the traditional FETs... Not by much, but still in the right direction. 😊 I hope we can see much more stuff like that in the future! Thanks a lot for the video, dude!!! Stay safe and creative there! 🖖😊

[@greatscottlab]

Thanks for the feedback :-)

[@tanmay______]

Let’s hope we see more of these GaN FETs in drone ESCs soon!

[@MCsCreations]

@@tanmay______ Oh, absolutely! You read my mind! 😂

[@aleksandersuur9475]

The real difference is much more drastic than seen here. When you have a 75% efficient switching mode, the FET isn't your problem to begin with. However when you have a power loss down to 5% or thereabouts then that couple extra couple percent of efficiency improvement makes a big difference. From the power bill side of things it makes next to no difference at all of course, but power loss is heat that has to be managed, cutting that in half is a big deal. Less fan noise, lower failure rates due to lower temperature, smaller package, higher power ratings in same package, take your pick what you want to optimize for but to do so you need that improved efficiency.

[@MCsCreations]

@@aleksandersuur9475 Oh, no doubt about that. Take a look at the size of the regulated power supply ToolkitRC is making and selling. (There are many reviews on KZbin.) It's tiny! And almost as powerful as the big one I built! 😬 (As soon as I can I'm going to buy one, for sure! 😂) And it uses those new FETs!

[@thehearth8773]

As someone working in this area, I have my doubts about GaN. SiC gives you about the same performance, but better reliability, as GaN has poor thermal characteristics and can't handle transient overpower as well as SiC (which can basically be considered to work the same as silicon; it doesn't need the same special care that GaN does). I'm not sure how the price compares, but I'm pretty sure they're on the same order of magnitude.

[@badlux-brenny]

I’m guessing the shift from 100mm to 150mm wafers finally made GaN cheap enough to compete here. Never expected this so soon though!

[@profdc9501]

The snubber you added to the GaN fet is probably needed because of the inductance of the leads, and it will reduce the efficiency by increasing switching time. A slight flaw, but a good instructional video.

[@amansaxena5898]

Love the whole MOSFET Cinematic Universe ♥️

[@altima47163]

His notes are epic! They should teach his method in school.

[@justinvzu01]

I got an ad from ST Microelectronics about their GaN technology on this video. 2% power loss difference isn't much, but with the amount of energy we use every year, that could save so much money and lower the amount of CO2 from energy plants.

[@dhombios]

The most amazing feature of GaN MOSFETs is their capability of exploding if overcurrent happens. Even if they sometimes are not needed, that makes using them worth it (at least for the engineers that need to test the prototype)

[@FathinLuqmanTantowi]

so they can work as fuse? btw is it always open failure? as in it will open the circuit when broken instead of causing short circuit

[@dhombios]

@@FathinLuqmanTantowi not exactly, they usually blow up nearby components if the required protections are deactivated. However, there's a tradition at some laboratories (at least in the ones were I worked) of blowing up the prototype when the project ends (usually to determine the maximum output power of the converter)

[@marcojansen3965]

Nice to see that the industie is shifting to better efficency, but a cost for a single GaN Mosfet is incredible compared to the normal ones

[@ceptimus]

I think lifetime cost of ownership (which depends on the cost and lifetime of the device, as well as efficiency) is probably more important for most users. Or perhaps the one that's cheapest to buy, providing it has reviews that say it works okay.

[@josuad6890]

here's what I think though, efficiency is not the primary concern for most consumers. what I think most people wants is: - First, a smaller charger that can output more so their phone can charge faster depending on what standards it used, and light to carry around when needed. - Second is safety, so that their phones don't puff out some magic smoke while charging. what GaN promises is smaller charger with higher and more stable output compared to traditional silicon mosfets. So yeah, less chonky 200W laptop chargers (which is currently about the size of a brick with traditional silicon) is what consumer wants. not laptop charger that has 99% efficiency and still chonky asf. So yeah, great video overall, shame it starts with the wrong assumption regarding the consumer market.

[@pravardhanus]

I got an ST GaN Power MOSFET advertisement in the middle of your video. 😂 GaN may be better suited for switching frequencies in the MHz to GHz range.

[@greatscottlab]

Haha smooth advertisers ;-)

[@onradioactivewaves]

Agreed, at lower frequencies the efficiency won't be noticed, at higher frequencies the savings from the PDP will be more noticeable.

[@erikbertram6019]

I think the main industry drive for GaN is not the efficiency directly, but the fact that it allows for hight switching frequencies which in turn allow for higher power density converters.

[@jondoe5866]

I got a notification to renew my subscription when I open this app. I got a GAN ad when I clicked this video. It's crazy because I watched 100 videos today with no ads now I'm gonna get ads non stop. It sucks because I just skip untill the ad is gone but I miss out on cool videos like yours. Ads are a double edge sward.

[@electrodacus]

You can compare two different mosfets an find much larger differences. A designer will select the best component fitting a budget and GaN at this prices will likely never be the choice. Even if cost is not a factor at all you can still find better mosfets at least based on last time I looked.

[@Korni0816]

With those long wires and large loop areas between your components it is clear that you get high voltage spikes when switching off the Transistor due to enormous leakage inductance and high di/dt. With fast switching speeds minimizing leakage inductance in the circuit arrangement is crucial, not only in power electronics.

[@dariushaskell4719]

Nice to see a video on GaN technology!

[@greatscottlab]

Glad you liked it!

[@Nicolas-bo3we]

The largest part of the switching losses in the mosfets is not from charging and discharging the Qg, but the drain-source voltage and current "switching". You use around U*I/2 for the turn on and turn off durations. These durations are ofcourse shorter when the mosfet switches faster, which is possible with a lower Qg.

[@InssiAjaton]

Two things. I have understood that the gate drive needs to be different in order to achieve the efficiency of GaN parts. Maybe that was for the very first units? Another item though is the ability to operate at higher frequency, assuming your snubber allows it without eating all the efficiency benefits -- being lossy of course. But the gate capacitance is not "five times lower". It is one fifth of the reference.

[@john-arvidkibsgard616]

I don’t quite agree that a consumer values the efficiency most (especially with these low values), but I might be a different consumer. I am more interested in seeing that it actually can output 65w.

[@ejc4684]

GaN FETs have been around, mostly in RF since the fast switching speeds help with rise/fall times in pulsed transmissions. It’s interesting to see their applications in improving efficiency in SMPS. Even though the gains in efficiency are less than the increase in cost I will be interested to see their use grow as that cost decreases over time.

[@psyclow]

Great video, gave a great overview of those for me. For me, the only thing that calls my attention to those gan charger is the size. I guessed that due to less heat produced, they can put it in more compact cases.

[@og9806]

The GaN components are in the ICs for the PD protocol.

[@morawski64]

Great video! I was skeptical when I first saw GaN chargers. I didn't doubt the tech, just the companies that advertise using it. Glad to see this is something real and tangible for mass production unlike "X college students discover Y battery tech to charge an electric car in 2 seconds!!!!", However, it's still crazy to see your product was actually missing the component it needed. You should take a closer look, I'd love to see if they snuck a small one in for something useless, like driving an LED. Thanks for the info and your investigation!

[@greatscottlab]

Thanks for the feedback :-)

[@frescochainjo6112]

My man used the phrase "As you probably know..." My guy, NO...I don't know...lol

[@Adikimenakis]

Well, my job is to grow GaN and do research on HEMTs so i am happy to see GaN devices out in the market. They are expensive to make due to complexity and material cost, but they do get cheaper in time... They are essential for RF applications, where they largely outperform Si. But not in everyday electronics.

[@Debloper]

Running GaNFET at 500kHz is a serious handicap. I understand that you can't do 1:1 comparison otherwise, cause a traditional MOSFET wouldn't want to wrangle in MHz range without a massive switching loss. But I wish you gave it a try to run it at 2MHz+ range, cause that's where it starts to shine - both in terms of efficiency as well as power density (solution size). I've been considering to build an unassuming mobile charger sized GaNFET power adapter with 1kW power output (& run my desktop off of it). Weirdly enough, the cooling system to fit in that form factor is the largest challenge in it. Don't know how long it'll take me, but if you want to give it a try, please go ahead. It's a fun project and it'll have a bigger audience on your channel. Thanks for making video on GaNFET, it's the new obsession of mine! :D

[@greatscottlab]

Thanks for the feedback :-) Yes, sadly I could not do such a high frequency test.

[@Rinkel80]

What I miss in this video is the heat GAN can handle. I read somewhere (sorry don't have the source) that GAN can handle higher temperatures and this feature helps to build smaller power supplies. I have four GAN power supplies and they are all smaller. But they also feel hotter.

[@MrDaniyalAh]

Video uploaded 2min ago from my fav KZbinr, yay!

[@greatscottlab]

Hope you enjoyed it!

[@TehMG]

Most consumers don't actually care about efficiency. They want convenience: fast charging, light and compact power adapter that is easy to carry around, and low prices.

[@Teth47]

Another major advantage of the GaN MOSFETS is that since they draw less power and require less beefy gate drive circuitry for the same switching speeds, you can make devices significantly more compact without sacrificing capacity. I think the biggest consumer draw is "your charger is less of a brick".

[@marcel4679]

Interesting how I got an GaN PSU Ad right before this video (MasterGaN)

[@tuttocrafting]

I got stmicro new lineup ad.

[@sokrates297]

Same, they know who to target. 😆

[@Arctic_silverstreak]

Same

[@Hanslinger]

It would be interesting if you could add to the comparison eGaNs. The GaN you tested is a cascode GaN, a hybrid combination of a low voltage Si MOSFET + Normally ON GaN. MOSFET drivers are usually compatible with cascode GaNs (because of the low voltage Si MOSFET at the input), but not with eGaNs (Vgsmax~7V). AFAIK, eGaNs are more efficient and switch faster than cascode GaNs, but because of their very low Vgs-threshold (~1.5V) and low gate capacitance, you can fry them easily due to voltage spikes and false turn-on.

[@thoreberlin]

I thought their main advantage wasn't the higher efficiency, but that they can operate at higher, easier to cool temperatures which allows power supplies to shrink further.

[@jameshancock]

Also with ganfets you can replace the diode in a buck/boost with a second fet which massively improves efficiency up to 99% in most cases.

[@f1ggyc]

So the GaN FET you bought was better, but was the FET in the cheap charger really a GaN or was it a lie? You could use the Ton/Toff test to see which characteristics it has

[@danbrownlee4400]

The testing you did was very good and testing at the higher frequency shows that the GaN FETs perform better than Silicon FETs. Most power supplies switch at between 65kHz and 125kHz which is more suited to a Silicon MOSFET. The true benefit of GaN is being able to switch at higher frequencies like 500kHz you used. If you re run your tests using 125kHz, the Silicon FETs would probably look better than GaN. Why use the higher frequency then? You can use smaller components like the transformer and capacitors, thereby making a smaller adaptor for the same power levels.

[@gregory9211]

Personally, I think it is hype to use this type of mosfet in a power plug. Especially for this price difference for the small percent in efficiency. 250 - 800% more expensive!! The great advantage of GaN technology lies in more complex circuits for audio amplifiers, etc.

[@daniel_960_]

It made the chargers much smaller. That’s the main difference it makes. Really only reason why it’s so hyped.

[@gregory9211]

@@daniel_960_ MOSFET and GaN-Fet are build in the same component „case“. So they have same size. Why should the charger be smaller? - heatsink is for both required

[@daniel_960_]

@@gregory9211 idk but ever since gan is out they shrunk quite a bit. The size and gan marketing went hand in hand. More powerful, better features and smaller.

[@phinok.m.628]

The maim reason for switching powerlosses isn't the amount of energy you lose by charging and discharhing the gate capacitance. Of course it contribuites to the power loses. The main problem however is that while the gate is being charged/discharged, the mosfet moves through it's linear region. Meaning the Drain-Source resistance is not super high or super low, but somewhere inbetween, causing a big voltage drop and therefore power loss (in the form of heat) over the mosfet. For this reason people have been working on not only reducing the gate capacitance, but also reduce the gate voltage range, where the mosfets Drain-Source resistance crosses from high to low or vice versa. Essentially the goal is to make the mosfet behave as "digitally" as possible and either be on or off but nothing inbetween.

[@davidthacher1397]

You have static which is leakage. Then there is dynamic from the temporary short like regions plus the gate current. Reducing feature size will reduce gate cap and can increase short resistance. The linear region is high resistance so while there is conduction flow from high side to low which is wasted this only happens for a specific amount of time. There is a few ways to combat this and this depends on certain things in the layout and design. Generally we guess the total current flow per switch and express it as characteristic cap. Assuming inverter while the PMOS gains resistance while the NMOS loses it. This means that small short for specific amount of time. Lowering the voltage and capacitance while increasing the resistance will lower power lose. However this can reduce fan out performance. Die shrinking generally predicts all of this. However leakage can rise against this, which leads to bandgap problems. Dynamic almost always beats static power. Which is why a larger circuit which generally scales against static may provide more performance. It could also become cheaper. GaN if willing to lose power efficiency may allow some other odd predictions to exist.

[@davidgunther8428]

Faster switching only gets you so far. You have to start using resonant circuits so you aren't discharging the source-drain switch capacitance every cycle.

I think the main selling point of GaN power adapters is that is allows for a significantly smaller size. I may be wrong, but I think I recall hearing that some years ago.

[@JaapioNL]

Sees video about gan in a product, taps the video and youtube plays an ad for gan components before the video starts 😆

[@kdash3215]

This was amazingly thorough. Thank you!

[@MariusSumutiu]

GaN transistors are very efficient. They go to a higher frequency and less electromagnetic interferences. I work in motor controller industry and EMI is really important especially in drones where you don’t want any sorts of interferences.

[@MariusSumutiu]

Not to mention that the heat dissipation is waay lower than the standard silicone based FETs therefore they’re way efficient in terms of power in to power out in relation to lost power in forms of heat.

[@Bob_Lob_Law]

I believe discussing efficiency as it pertains to energy savings is a bad example when it comes to small devices. The money isn't a huge factor. The real important part is reduced dissipation allowing for smaller lighter weight devices.

[@BRUXXUS]

I thing GaN is something I’ve probably seen in listings and marketing and just ignored. I’d not even known about it before, but thanks to this video, now I do! Brought up a lot of fun questions for me. Like, why are these so expensive? How are they manufactured? Stuff like that, which I’m going to enjoy looking into and learning about. ☺️

[@gordonfamilyforge134]

size is most important to me. dowsizing travel needs

[@therandomchannel9226]

So it means for voltages upto 15V Mosfet Tech takes the lead, which caters most handsets, mobile, and other electronic items. So GaN can be a game changes only for high voltage usages

[@jena_thornwyrd]

Excellent vid as usual ! :)

[@greatscottlab]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@linze9935]

Im currently writing my bachelor thesis about GaN Mosfets (with focus on switching speeds and current measurement at those speeds) and it is really impressive how fast it can get. I am reaching switching speeds of almost 2.x ns at 400V which couldnt be achieved at all with traditional FETs.

[@davebutler3905]

Glad to hear you are actually bench testing components instead of staying in the library!

[@rklauco]

You want to know the most important consumer aspect for usb-c power supply? Simple - no squeaking noises while idle or during low consumption times. I had USB-C supplies from Lenovo, Dell, few no-names from China, HP, ... You name it. With the exception of one, that has no name, ALL of them produce high-frequency noise in audible spectrum while either not used at all, or with low current 5V use. So there you go - not MOSFET, but the switching frequency (and its harmonics) are what matters to me.

[@mostrush4849]

It's very hard to compare tow deferent FET. There are traditional MOSFETs are extremely efficient. I like to you compare datasheet of most efferent MOSFET with most efficient GaN , The specs (such as DS resistance and on/off time) would show the winner.

[@vincentrobinette1507]

The difference is actually much better than measured. With an output voltage of 5 volts, the junction voltage of the Schottky diode is a significant loss, and that won't change with which type of FET was used. A better challenge, would be to build a synchronous rectifier system, where the catch diode is replaced by a FET, eliminating the ~.4 volt drop of the Schottky, then, you will see a much bigger difference. An LT1158CN half bridge driver chip would be a good choice, since it uses adaptive gate threshold voltage, rather than a fixed delay, to minimize the dead time, rather than relying on a fixed dead time. With this, you can really compare the difference between silicon, silicon carbide, and gallium FET's. The lower the OUTPUT voltage, the more synchronous rectification helps improve efficiency.

[@Ryuseigan]

Did you try those small Anker ones. Do they deliver the same power while being that much smaller? Kinda curious since you said GaN is less efficient at 5V.

[@Persian-Odyssey7]

Very nice evaluation. I think that if you could arrange a boost converter exploiting GaN body diod then you may increase the efficiency tangibly as Qrr is literally zero in this Mosfet or most of them.

[@nikolaipavlov544]

Regarding efficiency - One should also take into account lower power to drive the gate of the GaN vs MOSFET as GaN capacitance tend to be smaller. Also, this advantage of GaN FETs can be traded into higher operation frequency - smaller magnetics and capacitors. However, to fully explore GaN advantages in high speed circuits e.g. pulsed laser drivers, one needs review their packaging (contact me if interested).

[@p-196]

Gallium is a really cool metal. it is liquid on room temperature and its not toxic. perfect for experiments

[@ulogy]

Comparison of my own: 18W charger, same manufacturer, traditional vs GAN metered at 25.5W for traditional, 22.1W for GAN. Obviously not a perfect comparison but if paying that extra $4 makes them use parts that help cut power loss by an appreciable level I'm all for it. (And it's a bit smaller, so that's nice for packing it away.)

[@forgeteverythingyouknow5413]

The main gain seems to be switching speed, which is quite incredible. Being ten times faster.

[@antipainK]

You completely missed the point. Who the hell cares about efficiency of your phone charger? Do you even know, how little energy it takes (less than 1$ per year in my country). The "cool" thing with GaN is that they are able to pack more inside a small enclosure, thus the charger is smaller...

[@RichardT2112]

Given the current cost differential- the saving in efficiency isn’t worth it - but once they become cost equal to silicon based fets- even 2% power savings will be worth it.

[@manu.yt25]

Lol I was just wondering what's up with these chargers and searched KZbin but I didn't expected that you made I video on it, I should enable the notifications 😅

[@greatscottlab]

You should👍

[@HEVTech1]

Where can you get one of those constant load circuits?

[@onradioactivewaves]

Nice Agilent oscilloscipe, I sure miss using the ones that were by best friends for a few years...