Should You Care About Marginal Gains? | GCN Tech Show Ep. 278 With Josh Poertner

[@gcntech]

What’s your favourite marginal gain? 🧐

[@dieterloos7382]

shifters inside

[@BreakawayB]

🌬️Riding in the drops.

[@mathewrose2951]

I like leaving some marginal gains on the table so I can then surprise myself with how fast I am when there's an event. That's why I ride most days in a retro jersey. It makes an Assos skinsuit that much faster on the day when you put it on.

[@robbchastain3036]

The big ring. 😀

[@taburetca]

which is faster (aero + Rolling resistance)? Real 25mm tire with 25mm optimized rim or real 28mm tire with 28mm optimized rim?

[@phenofinder9145]

Having guests like josh on is a huge step in the right direction.

[@gcntech]

Great to hear that you enjoyed having josh in the video 🙌 Where would you like to see us take the channel? We'd love to hear your feedback.

[@SecwetGwiwer]

@@gcntech Dylan Johnson would be great to have on the channel.

[@chicagoan]

@@SecwetGwiwer As long as his alter-ego comes too brah.

[@sierrapolo]

I think you’re headed in the right direction with the nutrition video this week and the tech guest. Obviously, you have a big fewer bass and a lot of us are well past the more basic videos, and would like to hear about more in-depth topics that would help us go faster/farther

[@CyclingGeo]

I have to start watching Josh. He’s just saying ”X actually works”. Finally someone who won’t think I’m insane for wanting a 500€ upgrade which has as much of a gain as skipping out on eating that extra spoonful of yoghurt.

[@SamuelBlackMetalRider]

We should ALL thank Josh. Such a great Man

[@gcntech]

We loved having Josh on the show 🙌Should we get him back for more? 👀

[@anthonygittins506]

Full on Josh bingo card: "it depends", "rule of 105", "hysteresis", "at Zipp". Loved it!

[@alolympic]

Josh is ace. Fountain of knowledge, expertise and a great guy I would imagine

[@gcntech]

Shall we get him back on the show? Bit more Josh coming this week 👀

[@andrewmcalister3462]

45 minutes of Josh and Ollie? I'm in bike nerd heaven. 🤓 😇 Thanks Josh for appearing on the show, and for being a sponsor.

[@gcntech]

Long show this week! We couldn't stop chatting 🙌

[@mlee6050]

@@gcntech way better than question TV shows when it like *says half answer* "okay we must leave it there"

[@IamPapaShaw]

Have this dude on every week. He’s really dropping the knowledge on Ollie and Boris.

[@gcntech]

His knowledge of putting us to shame 👀

[@BreakawayB]

🤑 As athletes existing in a marketing-heavy sport, it’s easy to lose sight of the forest for the trees. We understand that marginal gains are “worth it,” but it’s important to remember that 70-80% of the system’s drag comes from the rider, so the most cost effective way to improve cycling efficiency is to improve your CdA through proper bike fit and spending time training in aerodynamic positions.

[@jtmuso]

Yes!

[@TimGRawson]

Which are among the marginal gains which come under said ‘heading’!

[@mlee6050]

Wrong, best way is self balancing bike and remove rider jk

[@davidh8600]

Regarding the point that aero gains don't matter for slow riders, there is also the aspect of the watts you need to increase your speed by 1 km/hour, which is much lower at low speeds. So you gain fewer watts at lower speeds, but you also need less power to ride faster. Therefore, aero gains are as important for less powerful riders as for pros. Maybe this makes it in the next video about aero gains

[@jonasvieth]

Josh is great, bring him on more

[@gcntech]

Look Who's Back... Back Again 😎

[@maxbucky24]

Maxbucky24 here - I’d swapped all the aero gains off of my tt bike onto my road bike just to see how much difference it makes. I went to the wind tunnel test day with EzGains and the disc cover is as fast as a top end disc wheel and 1/10th the cost and the chainring cover is a lot more aero than a separate crank and chainring

[@DanielMooreDJ]

As a bit of a nerd myself this is my favourite GCN video and I was part of the first 150 subscribers!!! 🤓

[@PoulHansenDK]

That the inserts expand after loosing pressure is one vital information we didn't get in the last video. And of course are compressed when you pump up the tyre and that way don't influence rolling resistance very much. Good info.

[@tertiaryeel2066]

Week 5 of asking for a 'The UCI has no jurisdiction here' T-shirt

[@sean7456]

The groundspeed vs airspeed thing is SO huge. I live in Kansas and dealing with crazy wind day in day out. Even on my commuter bike, making some aero tweaks (trunk bag vs panniers) makes a huge difference in terms of overall speed and effort.

[@AK-ContentCreatIon]

Marginal gains are a blessing... My fitness is so low, that I appreciate every thing I can do.... especially the position on the bike You mentioned in one of those wind tunnel videos has made the most difference to me.....

[@chrisbaum998]

One of the Top 10 GCN Tech shows of all-time! Bring back Josh for more shows!!!

[@carlmullender2941]

Blow the marginal gains in speed, I'm 68 and suffered badly from road buzz in my hands, wrists and feet whilst running v good 25mm tyres at 110 psi, because of GCN I changed said tyres to 28mm same brand, added latex inner tubes dropped pressure to 60 psi to find I can ride all day without pain and discomfort - that's not marginal - that's almost life changing . Thank you guys

[@hugobci]

Josh on the show is a huge gain!! As a short-pocket person, I can atest significant gains when you sum up some free and budget tweaks he talks about in the podcast. Specialty the ones that adds comfort. More comfort, less fatigue, far distances!

[@frankharradence732]

Great Show, really informed and interesting guest. PS...The Parachute Regiment also run the Pen Y Fan as part of their training, I first did it in 1965 as an 18yr old Para recruit; passed the training and spent 6yrs in 3 Para.

[@krehme]

Really fun watch having such a knowledgeable guest for the whole show. Thanks guys!

[@danpiruth6385]

At the Ridley factory, the purple paint does not cover the decals because it was sprayed before the decals were put on. What you see on the images is the clear coat being applied, as can clearly be seen by the color of the paint in the spray gun (translucent liquid)

[@veriest1]

Best GCN Tech show in a looooooong time.

[@MggW]

Giovanni making a hash of the Shaw quotation at 35:46 - "Two countries separated by a common language" Kudo to Ollie for letting this pass.

[@underbelly6042]

Could listen to Josh for hours! Legend

[@julianallen515]

More Josh please. He's the most knowledgeable guy for all things aero and presents it in a way that is understandable to the layperson. Can't believe that you guys didn't touch on waxing chains!

[@Ton7o]

Happily listen to Josh talking bike science all day long - great guest 👍👍

[@123moof]

Tailoring: Luke over on the Trave Velo channel did an episode on how to DIY tailor a cheap jersey. If you access to a home sewing machine it is like a 15 minute job, and does not involve any cutting so you can always undo the extra stitching if you are unhappy with the results.

[@sherab2078]

I have the impression the question do marginal gains matter for a casual rider has not been answered in the conversation. And I'm not saying there is one answer - this rather falls into the category 'it depends'. And I would argue this depends on three things 1. What is your style of riding, or in other words, what for you ride bikes? Is it commuting, adventuring, or sport? Do you ride alone, or in a group? Then we go to the point 2. How marginal are those marginal gains? Because I don't think gaining a few seconds, or even a couple of minutes (like 5-7 minutes) matters a lot for a commuter riding to work. It would matter if this was maybe 15 minutes or more. These margins are of course different for different people, I give them just for example. From the adventuring standpoint, like bike-packing, touring or simply riding fast for fun, again - If not looking at a bike computer, you probably won't notice the difference between riding 28 and 30 km/h - both speeds will feel virtually the same. This was for the 'riding fast for fun' part. And from yet another perspective - saving 15 minutes, or maybe being able to ride a 5 km further on a whole day touring ride probably is not worthwhile either. But make these hours or tens of kilometres - now, that's amazing! So, I think those really tiny marginal gains are worthwhile only if we start to compete - with others, or with ourselves (like breaking personal records). Of course, there are also those bigger marginal gains that can benefit all, but everyone needs to judge them by their own scale. And finally 3. How much do those marginal gains cost? The watts per money ratio? And how does this correspond to the thickness of our wallets?

[@CanyonWanderer]

What a great guest!, so many insights and indeed the "air speed is not ground speed" argument does give a mega twist on when aero starts to be a non-marginal gain!!

[@maxsievers8251]

Tyre pressure isn't really a field in which gains can be archived if you are not doing it wrong to begin with. With most cases there is quite a wide spectrum of tyre pressure with the same rolling resistance. The principle and idea behind a pneumatic tyre is that is just lowly pumped up so that it deflects on bumps. Otherwise we would fit solid rubber tyres on the rims. So 50 psi and more are ridiculous! The low limit is that the tyres cannot collapse - not even partially while cornering. With medium sized tyres as 32 to 42 mm the spectrum of acceptable tyre pressures is quite large while with larger tyres it tends to shrink as the maximum pressure gets lower but also the tendency to collapsing sidewalls increases. 42 mm is the optimal tyre width. Where do I get a 44.1 mm wide aero rim with a breaking surface in 650B?

[@crazhar]

Ollie's perfect Ferrari pronunciation suggested to me that his Ferrari dealer must be from the Huddersfield region of Italy 🇮🇹

[@frankeeeej]

If I was in any way working for a team partaking in Roubaix, I would absolutely advocate for the use of tireliners. You'd be a sucker if you didn't use them. And because of that, I would not want to make them mandatory, because I wouldn't want to take away a chance for my competitors to make a rookie mistake in not using them...

[@KenSmith-bv4si]

If you look at the guy spraying the paint, check out the colour in the paint holder on top of spray gun, it's milky white which when sprayed dries clear, it's the clear coat going over the base coat or colour.

[@TheAlfaromeo1968]

Best interview/ material for ages, ty.

[@bartversteijnen1084]

So as Josh says we do not want tire to slowly bounce back to shape: hence pump it up to 15000psi

[@MarkBurghouwt]

Finally someone good on the show

[@peterslater7791]

FYI, it's canadians that say "deccles" - i've lived here nearly 20 years now and it still makes me chuckle.

[@gerrymcbride6429]

Reducing my overall system weight from 98kg to 88kg; a work in progress.

[@gcntech]

Nice work Gerry! 🙌

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

Wow!! Josh is here?? Very cool!!

[@markbradshaw4960]

Great show. Josh is, of course, a proper Leg End.

[@billwiecking7763]

Excellent interview!

[@clarklowe5632]

Loved Josh explanation on the two different types of inserts. Seems most riders don't know there is a difference between the two.

[@stuartdryer1352]

I certainly didn't.

[@19diego82cinttocs]

On the Ridley bike, the decals were applied to protect the white base coat paint before spraying the purple, actually they were "masks" not "decals". The masks were then removed revealing the white base coat paint and finished with clear coat.

[@danielhertercasagrande1686]

When I was young I was racing - the better I was the less I cared for technical gimmicks- at the time people drilled holes in chain wheels and break leavers I had a trainer who told us better to go on the bike instead fiddling at the bike for marginal gains this guy became later DS of La Vie Claire! Last Tuesday I was watching a training race where amateur riders come from Alsace Germany and Switzerland close to Basel it was not the guys with very expensive bikes that performed best but the fittest

[@stuartdryer1352]

I ❤❤❤❤❤❤ Silca immersion wax.

[@autisticlife]

Oh my inner bike nerd has been nourished, bliss.

[@jenniferw6081]

Fabulous episode with Josh. Really enjoyed it, thanks!

[@adrianbreguet3924]

Would love to hear more from Josh about his brief comment on hookless rims, or maybe another topic for a deep dive discussion in a future GCN Tech show.

[@markusseppala6547]

I don't really watch other stuff anymore from gcn but these are great while on the trainer.

[@Ruggine85]

20:28 this needs a deep dive from doctor Bridgewood

[@denisbassom172]

Josh needs to be on the show more often

[@DaveBerry89]

Excellent hearing the tips and knowledge from Josh!!

[@bartversteijnen1084]

Hey Josh thanks for maybe helping develop the Zipp Tangente Puncture resistant road bike tire which is the ONLY tire that can replace old road bike tread inserted in the new roadbike tire as a liner. I live in Indonesia and every road is uneven and full of holes ! Thanks Josh !

[@TimGRawson]

Josh is the biggest brain in cycling tech!

[@curtmoonthebad]

Hey guys! I enjoy your shows a lot! You’re such freaks... „I like straight lines“ - just like me, perfectly normal people! 😂 As to the „EVO“ picture question: it is indeed real. One light source (the sun) and the same shadow angle as the trees for example. I’m a designer & digital artist so I can assure you 100%. Cheers from Düsseldorf/GER 🙂✌🏽

[@hendriksiering9077]

Absolutely great show this time!! Can´t wait for another part!

[@gcntech]

Tune in for the tech clinic next week! 👀

[@Playmaker_08]

Brilliant guys!! Love the explanations. Hysteresis is in many dynamic systems to some extent. For example our lungs 🫁 have slightly different pressure-volume loop characteristics between inhalation vs exhalation.

[@aheritage20]

Amazing episode with engaging facts, expertise and comedy.

[@hugobrown2516]

great show! can you do a video on how pros train on the road. how do they deal with traffic? stop signs? cities? cars? etc... i hate that stuff. ruins my flow. i can see why they like racing on a closed road!

[@luukrutten1295]

Tubeless tubulars are a product made by challenge ( not tufo ) These are just tubulars with a latex coated inner. So tubulars can be made without an inner tube and they can be ran with sealant. I guess since its from challenge they will not be as slow as tufo tires. Since those tufo tirs have never been fast! However I see no point in running these tubeless tubulars either.

[@charlesreza]

Please make Josh a regular guest!

[@simonlongbottom9148]

#askgcntech love this video! Makes me wonder... what's the most aero way to carry a laptop on your commute to work? In some ways a backpack seems the most obvious answer, but is it? What about a frame bag? Wouldn't that act as a faring?

[@sierrapolo]

Amazing content, please keep it up

[@gcntech]

Would you like more of these long nerdy video? 👀

[@sierrapolo]

Yes, of course. I think they do two things one you can actually drill down on some topics and gain some knowledge from it and two they create more questions for future videos, so not only do they help the viewers they can help you get more video ideas. I really enjoy when you get have guests like Josh, Inigo San Milan, and Nigel Mitchell addressing their area of expertise

[@davidburgess741]

Facing my out of square bb shell without the professional tool fixed a terrible cartridge square taper bb from day 1. 8200 miles terrible tight and rough. If I were concerned with marginal gains I wouldn't ride a track bike as a road bike. Clip on tri bars definitely went beyond marginal gain territory.

[@2deaf4sound]

Nerd alarm! 🤓 Love it!👍

[@wspmjw]

Interesting that Alex and Ollie comment about riding the best equipment. Would your opinion change if all of your sponsor-provided kit/bikes/accessories (incl. indoor trainers, tires, tools) were not available to you?

[@nickvandam1214]

I'd like to see if on an across city/town commute with stop lights if any of these marginal gains make them any faster.

[@edwardnino9896]

Greetings, a show idea that popped in my head. How about testing if pulling up on pedals as well as pushing down will noticeable increase speed/power. You could train up for a few months with uppedaling then test pushing down only versus pulling and pushing concurrently. For me it seems to give a noticeable boost, especially while climbing or sprinting. Anyway sounds like GCN does science could try this.

[@peterwillson1355]

Only important if you're competing in some way. Otherwise just get an E bike if speed is that important for you.

[@ratdog4591]

why not just use a tube a in old school worked fine for years

[@jgourdo]

As an American now living in Canada, I can tell you Americans DO NOT say "deh-kil" we say "dee-kahl" it is Canada that says it that way! And not even all Canadians, just some, haven't quite figured out where that line is yet.

[@jedisdad2265]

Just used Silca Wax to silence my chain! Much to Ollie’s point, I am not racing, but I was my 2 day, 180 mile charity ride to be as easy as possible!

[@thomasdavidbassett483]

I have never had any problems with baggy cloths.

[@gcntech]

Baggy clothing can be great! Wear what makes you happy and keeps you riding 🙌

[@edmundhodgson2572]

Agree with exmo. Ust, stans, 2-way fit have excellent tyre retension. My hookless rims seem like a 2000's ghetto tubeless solution, worse than clinchers

[@Legacy40k]

I've got a question for GCN Tech - Why are Road pedals and cleats so dramatically different from MTB pedals/cleats?

[@grahamaustin9085]

really interesting chat

[@Tommi462]

I'm all for marginal gains. I even upgrade my commuter all the time, even though there's really no need. There was especially no need for me to clamp on some tri bars to it, but I do get to work a bit faster when I tuck down. But yeah, I think the "are they worth it?" question is more about the economics of it all. Lot of these marginal gains are really expensive. I'm sure anyone would be happy for their bike to be just faster (as long as it doesn't sacrifice comfort or appearance too much) if it was free or cheap. But one might easily question the worth of 1,5k spent on deep section carbon wheels or especially 1,8k spent on Ceramicspeed 3D printed pulley wheels or whatever, just so you can go a little bit faster. If that's something you can easily afford then by all means go for it. But for most of us, that's just not worth it.

[@mickchaganis6607]

My jersey seems to fit tighter with no wrinkles at the beginning of March than it did at the end of last November....... Yet strangely I'm slower 🤔 😂 PS. I've custom painted most of my bikes, one of them using a purple pearl in clear lacquer, sprayed over a black base, it turns the black purple and over white stays white with a hint of pearl in direst sunlight........ mine was the opposite way, white frame with black decals which went purple after lacquer🙂

[@minuteman4199]

If you're on a professional racing team, yes. If you're trying to sell me another bike I'm not falling for it.

[@manuelrl2598]

Since most of us do not ride new tires or equipment most of the time, I wonder about the durability of optimal design elements - would my top-rated tire (I mean, tyre) remain top-rated as it wears, relative to other designs or equipment matches?

[@mgrant6607]

@@bradrogers2427 Great link. Shows that a fast tire like GP5000 can also be long wearing.

[@manuelrl2598]

@@bradrogers2427 Thank you. As I should have suspected, someone has already thought about this very topic and thoughtfully undertaken a illustrative study. The link is great, and now I get to wonder about how well various tires compare.

[@mrhankbotful]

Don't make inserts mandatory, then there is motivation to improve tubeless compatibility between tires and rims rather than relying on a foam noodle in the tire.

[@Lacking_something]

Is there a tyre pressure calculator somewhere that allows you to dial in measured rim width and tyre width?

[@simongoh9461]

I'm over this marginal gains ideology. Sure if you competing for the Olympics or on a pro team/serious racer go for it, but for the average rider (who are by far the majority) marginal gains are just another marketing gimic to take your money. In a world where everything is better , faster, must have etc, maybe folks should slow down and actually enjoy the ride, the views and the company around you.

[@gcntech]

Thanks for the comment Simon! We think there is space for both these styles within cycling, that is part of why it is such a great sport 🙌

[@billmccaffrey1977]

I would think that the biggest gain the average rider can achieve would be to spend 3-4 hours a week in the gym. The cost is low and the gains keep coming. You can spend $1000 on a set of wheels for a few watts or $25 a month for 50 to 100 watts gain. I see so many people with money trying to compensate for just being in poor shape. Dylan Johnson is not your average rider. He spends many hours in the gym and any gain would help him in long races.

[@MrGarycoww]

Really enjoyed this tech show,josh is fascinating to listen too! 😎

[@gcntech]

A true bike nerd 🤓

[@MrGarycoww]

Love it!,he's like the William Shatner of bike Geekness! 😀

[@BonesHealBikesDont]

When it comes to drum testing wheels, what is stopping someone from using a textured drum to replicate different road surfaces? Could someone machine the test drum with different degrees of knurling or similar pattern?

[@secretbrad9259]

Just put a tube in! Cheaper and generally much easier and unless a top grade rider wouldn’t notice much difference!

[@hankbohanon8087]

This was awesome..got a question based on the show..certainly understand if no one has time to answer. I have carbon rims that are 44 mm. The width is 27mm and I am running 28 conti 5000 with latex tubes. The roads in Chicago are pretty rough. Would it make sense to switch to 25 mm tires to gain the aero benefit, or am I gaining more watts with the slightly wider tire and reduced rolling resistance. Thanks for any suggestions..

[@johnnyloco11]

Josh is a legend

[@wspmjw]

The road inserts are "Pool Noodles". Just smaller.

[@chrisnumnuts8671]

jockey wheels i dont like the no bearing 1s give me ball bearing any day . i no its not much gain but that grinding is cyclogical and annoying

[@darrenhardy-hawken2214]

My spinergys are still faster than all my new carbon wheels. It feels like having a disc on front and back without the crosswind effects

[@franksorry2653]

Excellent work, Alex. Sorry, dude with the hair. Alex, you have a good point there that not all riders are small and right now there is a massive market of massive humans looking to cycling as hope to become less massive but confronted with people like olí who just thinks one size.

[@headmaxify]

I am confused by the use of the word hysteresis as a synonym for dampening. They are not at all the same.

[@Rob6020]

Josh comes in and instantly starts making a reasoned and well constructed input. I don't like it 😂😂😂 (joking).

[@gcntech]

What's this? useful tips coming out a video with Alex and Ollie in... doesn't sit right with us 😂

[@darrendunn54]

This was really great thank you 🙂but Im now a bit depressed 😞 Im in my mid 50's & in the mid 1980's I did 57mins for 25miles on bumpy UK Cheshire lanes on a steel bike with down tube shifters with no tribars (they weren't a thing then) but I did have a skinsuit on yay! Can you estimate for me or better still make a film that might explain how much faster I could have gone...It might cheer me up!

[@nannenon]

I always skip the bike vault part. Reason is I feel bad if someone doesn't get super nice. It gets personal in some weird sort of a way.

[@gcntech]

It's still nice though 🙌

[@rangersmith4652]

Gains on the margin are certainly not worthless, but there's always a trade-off; that is, a cost. For me, and I suspect for most recreational riders, whether a "marginal" gain is worth it comes down to the price of that gain -- you know, money gone and no longer available for something else. Pro riders and their teams may not care how much money a gain costs because 1) the rewards are also deemed to be monetary, 2) it's being provided to them at no cost, or 3) they're being paid to use it. But most of us have to pay for these gains with our own money, and that is why we often reject them. It's not because we think they're rubbish; it's because we live in the real world. All that logic being meted out, sometimes the thing producing the gain is just plain ugly and isn't going on me or my bike.

[@selwynlee7198]

Which GoPro cam mount u got for the stem camera placement?

[@gerrysecure5874]

Is it worth it ? Wrong question. Price is what the seller asks, worth is what the buyer is willing to pay. Seems its worth it for many.