Should You Play Pathfinder: Kingmaker?

Answering a question I often get about whether or not to play Pathfinder Kingmaker especially before playing wrath of the righteous!
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#gaming #pathfinder #pathfinderkingmaker #pathfinderwrathoftherighteous #pathfinderwotr

[@chik2602]

For the people that are scared about the time limits, you can explore absolutely everything, take your time, you'll still have to skip months in the late game so that you can reach the date of your point of no return quest. Also, in contrast with most games, in Kingmaker you wanna do the main quest first and only do the side stuff after you finish the main quest of each chapter. That's it, have fun.

[@ramazantekin4144]

i dont agree with you. the problem is you have a lot of oppotunities and problems popping up, faster than you can resolve them so you will feel overwhelmed from time to time. also you need to progress a lot into the story to open your kingdom management menu from other places except your capital (i am excluding mods that do that). so you have this constant feeling to return to your capital. you need to know in advance to do the right choices, since if you are newbie (all of us were once) you might screw up your kingdom. my biggest problem is the happiness system. positive goes one level upwards and caps but negative goes all the way down, making it difficult to salvage a negative happiness kingdom.

[@MrGouldilocks]

@@ramazantekin4144 You're supposed to feel overwhelmed, and it's supposed to be a struggle to keep your kingdom from falling apart. But what Chik said is absolutely true. The game gives you plenty of time to explore, level up your kingdom stats, annex new territory, take care of the main quest, etc. It can be difficult to successfully complete all of the kingdom events that pop up, but there's no penalty for failing the opportunity events. You should have plenty of advisors and time available to take care of the problem events unless you're trying to research all of the curses early in the game.

[@ramazantekin4144]

@@MrGouldilocks i believe it is a player preference. the feel of being overwhelmed was too much for me. i am a completionist so my osd was preventing me from playing in a relaxed manner. now compare that to wotr, that sense is nonexistant. crusader management is easy and not time sensitive. i can freely explore the map at my own speed and thats why i believe wotr is far superior to kingmaker. also, i rage quit several games but house at the end of time actually made me rage uninstall the game.

[@kayink558]

@@horrido666 That's the point of a cRPG, it's basically an interactive book with RPG elements. You should find alternative in other genres. What you said is like "I never swim when I go to the beach, so I always get bored. Most activities you don't have to swim to have fun. I go out to have fun. If I wanted to play with water, there's a shower in my appartment".

[@PsychoFreedom]

@@ramazantekin4144 like in real crpg, u have alot of options and quest but u cant do them all, make sens .

[@seeker406]

I'm one of the 7% that completed Kingmaker. I loved the game despite it's flaws. It's so epic and you get to play as just a regular person that wins a kingdom to rule. I like that concept and loved the story. I'm still playing wrath of the righteous and I hope to finish it but I'm not as in to the story as I was with Kingmaker. I prefer to play as a mortal, not a demi-god. In Kingmaker, I got to defeat a god like being using my skills and my wits. That was awesome.

[@mrlucius57]

Youve convinced me ;)

[@RavelKhay]

Same for me, dude! I loved both games, but Kingmaker is a tiny bit ahead for me. The story is awesome, it feels more like an actual big, sprawling adventure and less like military campaign (like WotR). Also, the kingdom management gets an unfair amount of hate imo. It's really not that bad in the (current) enhanced edition and personally, I really liked upgrading my villages, talking to my advisors and forming my kingdom. To each their own, I guess, but it's really cool imo.

[@Arthur_url]

Any recommendation for a beginner clas? I started with a fighter, played for a few hours (up to when you reach Jhod), and I'm thinking of restarting now that I have a better grasp on things :b

[@seeker406]

@@Arthur_url You should get the DLC for the dungeon that changes every time you play it. You can play that as a stand alone game and try out different classes until you find the one you like. I don't know of any perfect class. I think it's personal preference.

[@andyee3]

i bought it last week and have been enjoying it quite a bit but i find it almost overwhelming with all of the options and depth the game has (i've no experience with pathfinder or almost any traditional RPGs) on top of the length. 35 hours in and i've only just finished the troll hideout, though i did restart my save file once after about 3 or 4 hours.

[@bakuiel1901]

If you're overwhelmed with the choices here Wrath has way more

[@shawngillogly6873]

@@bakuiel1901 True. But Wrath has better tutorials. That makes finding your way a bit easier.

[@bakuiel1901]

@@shawngillogly6873 good point

[@cardassa]

If you haven't gotten past Act 1 then wait for it... it will flip the entire script on you.

[@DSzaks]

@@bakuiel1901 I'd actually disagree. Wrath may have some better UI presentation of information but there is so much more info that you need to know that isn't told to you at all, that I found it much harder to get started. Particularly w/ Mythic Paths the game doesn't give you any information before hand regarding the possibilities making it super easy to waste tons of lvls on redundant or useless abilities and pigeonhole yourself into a trash character. I lost count of how many times I restarted because I found out some new piece of information that messed up my character plan w/ no way to correct it. I am actually in the process of trying it out again and already running into to many frustrations where I would have done something different had the game told me some bit of info about the systems from the get go. Kingmaker may have had less polish but at least all your options were presented up front so you knew what you could and couldn't do.

[@olhristov]

I think Owlcat should patch in some of the WotR quality of life improvements back into Kingmaker. Like the ability to dispel your own effects after combat and showing exactly what feateres change with archetypes or listing the feats that have the inspected feat as a prerequisite. That said WotR has very clunky and overwhelming start. I find Kingmaker is way more welcoming, especially if you stick to pregens or straight forward classes. You get a lot more time before you get your full party or have to start leaving someone behind. And the quests and everything around is a lot less overwhelming. It eases you in a bit better. I also found WotR had a lot more stuff to read through that slows the pace way down early on or impactful story choices before you know what is going on. It was a bit much.

[@Mayhap34]

I read somewhere that Owlcat doesn't have the rights to Kingmaker, at least not any longer and though they would like to add patches to Kingmaker they can't legally.

[@olhristov]

@@Mayhap34 oh this would be very weird situation. I’ll keep an eye for more info, thanks :)

[@machoman6969]

I hope they patch in less cringe characters and story 😒

[@machoman6969]

@@HalIOfFamerIt's not THAT bad. I don't care anymore about the cringe Narnia timed main quest line. I'mma keep playing this trash game because it let's me role play as an evil dwarf woo hoo (⁠.⁠ ⁠❛⁠ ⁠ᴗ⁠ ⁠❛⁠.⁠)

[@JackOfOneTrade]

Kingmaker is a game I absolutely loved and wouldn’t recommend to anybody who’s on the fence. If you’re not fully up on the PF systems, you’ll be totally lost in character creation. I liked the kingdom management, but it (and literally everything in the game) should have been reduced by 40%). That said, if you played countless hours or pen-and-paper PF, it is a fantastic representation of the system, and just a great experience. But yeah, if you’re on the fence skiiiiip it.

[@clifcorcoran9917]

Playing through kingmaker will make you really appreciate the improvements in wrath of the righteous. But both are on the whole good cRPGs.

[@RangerX3X]

I am new to CRPG's and picked up PK today after watching your 100% video on it. Your recommendations in this video are quite fair and are consistent with your older video. It may take some time, but I plan on being in that small group that beat the final boss before going on to WOTR.

[@scrublime]

Hey mort, I am very excited to play WOTR on console so I've been going through and watching all your WOTR content (again) and it's been a real blessing. I appreciate you putting in such thorough work and your clear and simple explanations. As always, love the channel brother. Keep it up!

[@dumplingshakes22]

I just finished an Aldori swordlord run in kingmaker then continued the same character’s grandson in wrath. The games are imperfect masterpieces. It wasnt my first run in either game but damn if it wasn’t another blast

[@kylescott2235]

Wait how long after kingmaker is wrath time wise

[@dumplingshakes22]

@@kylescott2235 it’s long enough for jubilost to be out scouting for the person running the stolen lands which I assumed was your character in kingmaker?

[@LordWoffingshire]

@@kylescott2235 Kingmaker starts in 4710 and the story lasts 5 years, I believe the starting year jn Wotr is 4717, so there is about a 2 year gap between the games

[@kylescott2235]

@@LordWoffingshire is there thing in the games that has those dates at all? Cuz I might just be blind and not seen then

[@shawngillogly6873]

@@notalefty999 That's a Pathfinder problem. There are very few good Pathfinder Prestige classes.

[@thewingedserpent5823]

Pathfinder Kingmaker was actually the game that brought me into the CRPG genre. Yes it was overwhelming at first and it took me a couple of tries to get into it but i would still recommend playing it, but maybe holding of and playing Wrath first

[@zyfryth]

My biggest gripe with Kingmaker were actually the loading screens. Even on MV2 SSD they are still quite annoying and more importantly - frequent...Wrath of the righteous also has those same loading screens, but the game is better optimized and also the maps are smaller, so they do not feel like the same pain... This might sound silly to some, but the difference between 7 sec. loading screen and 17 sec loading screen is absolutely huge, when they are so frequent. It puts you out of the rhytm of the game, emersion goes to hell and not to mention all the reloads you are gonna do if you play on the higher difficulties...

[@Reoh0z]

There's a saying in web development about when a page takes too long to load 90% of visitors will click away and never see your site.

[@zyfryth]

@@Reoh0z There is a lot of wisdom in these types of sayings... I like another one for buisinesses. For every 9 satisfied clients, you can only afford 1 unsatisfied... If you brake that rule, your buisiness will fail...

[@nicolasoliveira4903]

I put this game in a cheap sata 2 Hard Disc and load so fast. Maybe its a problem in your pc.

[@brandonbyrd7937]

Torment: Tides of Numenera is the same way with load screens. Still just as much fun as pathfinders in my opinion.

[@wahahabuh]

definitely agree with the loading issues. I think this is Owlcat's first game? So they were passionate but inexperienced, somebody with more knowledge than me told me that the main issue is that it never deletes/removes temporary random encounter battle maps. So if you drop 50 swords on a random encounter battle map to reduce your encumbrance for example that's still saved/stored/referenced somewhere in the game save so as you might expect it gets really bloated as the game goes on and that type of stuff just continues to build up.

[@KindRider]

I keep telling myself I liked kingmaker more but whenever I look back at the games or want to play one again wrath of the righteous always comes ahead. That being said my recommendation is play wrath first and if you like it play kingmaker too. Wrath teaches the game better so you don't need to go through tutorials on kingmaker.

[@thomascheckie2394]

its hard going back to kingmaker after wrath. they did so many things better in wrath

[@nicolaslopez3987]

I love both games but Kingmaker is definitely my favorite. It's not required to enjoy the next game, but if you like one you should definitely play the other imho.

[@JellyJman]

I’ve only played Kingmaker and spent over 100 hours on it. It’s great!

[@Bersafor2]

Finally, finally, finally beat the game on Challenging after losing a 50 hour run due to a kingdom management death spiral and if I hadn't allied with the Hellknights that may have happened again at ~100 hours. You're 100% right, it's fun but I just couldn't recommend it. Can't believe some people manage this on Unfair, so hats off to you for 100%ing this thing. My biggest advice going in to this game would be if you're looking into putting out martial damage over magic - just look up what weapons will be available for your chosen type and when/how you get them. I limped through the end of the game with a +2 necrotic fauchard and I only made it because my build was debuff/fear heavy (thug rogue/two hand fighter). It turns out the insanely annoying npc whose quest I failed without even realizing it was THE fauchard artisan and ONLY source of decent +5 fauchards. Don't be like me bros, just go glaive or bardiche or longspear.

[@JoeSchaller]

I loved playing Divinity OS 2 and picked up Kingmaker some weeks ago for 5 bucks. I really enjoy it so far, the story is great and much more comprehensable than Divinity's. I'm looking forward to the second game after I finished the first one - if I will achieve this. I recently started managing my kingdom and there are just sooooo many things happening. Can be kind of overwhelming at times.

[@eckolecko2130]

I've been on my first playthrough for about 7 months. I've been very off and on with Kingmaker. It's an amazing game with many pros and cons... It becomes tedious, but I actually like the storyline and the characters, and how the story is revolved around you and your kingdom.

[@jforozco12]

Honestly, I bought this game when it was released because I used to love crpgs when I was younger and had played pillars 1 and 2 but found it really weird and the art style was not my cup of tea, so eventually I uninstalled it, then I've read about people who love the pathfinder system and heard some interesting things about Wrath of the Righteous and I said, hey I should just get over that learning curve, be a little bit patient and read about the things I do not understand. I'm now hundreds of hours deep with a flourishing kingdom, enjoying an awesome sword saint build, after dealing with bandit lords, trolls, liches, barbarian warlords, evil fey, and who knows what else the game is about to throw at my face in the late game. I'm really debating with myself if after ending this I should start wrath of the righteous or do an evil playthrough in kingmaker. This game is so fun! So in summary: stick with it guys! and watch stuff like the content morty makes so you get familiarized with the system because once you do, these titles are so fucking fun

[@jasonz7788]

Thanks for the great work Sir

[@Choteron3]

Playing Wrath of The Righteous and i agreed when you said that "soft" timers make the experience way more enjoyable than the time limits of Kingmaker.

[@newnamesameperson397]

I hate timers in general same with puzzles. There's nothing that'll ruin my enjoyment more than a convoluted puzzle. Nenio's quest is just full of them and it's not like there are hints. Alot of them feel like if you don't understand the developers mind then you won't solve it

[@DVN0985]

Picked up this and Pillars of Eternity 1&2. Gonna have my hands full but I'm super excited!

[@magickymajk]

Thanks for the concise and informative review. Guess I'll pass on for now and pick it up once it's on sale if I enjoy Wrath of the Righteous.

[@whorror_punx]

Just so everyone knows, its currently on sale, along with all the dlc up until sept 5 (so two more days). I picked it up because of this video, being somewhat new to crpgs (only played BG1) and have been absolutely in love with it. Bought all the DLCs last night. Definitely recommend 👍

[@certs743]

Just recently picked it up and I am really enjoying it so far. But then again I started playing pathfinder as a pen and paper RPG and DND since 2nd Edition (not recommended. lol). My first CRPG I think was the original Buldar's Gate from 1998. But I can see how some of the technical side of things like character creation could scare off people coming from something like Skyrim.

[@bytecode5834]

Many thanks for this review. Take care man

[@N0strapapas]

Thank you, Mort, for being the only reviewer I see who admits that Kingmaker isn't great. I was really into it until I got stuck where it wouldn't let me progress until a timer finished, but I had done everything else to do. I spent an entire real life day watching something on my second monitor while spamming the "skip day" button until it finally passed. If you are going to play both: play Kingmaker first, because Wrath outclasses it by a wide margin.

[@SpartanWolf222]

Ironic that this video came out right after I have replayed Kingmaker, for what is the 5th or 6th time, and after I finished it on Challenging and unlocked the "secret ending" path for the first time after 400 hours. I am honestly torn on which game I think is better as I think I enjoy both equally for different reasons. That being said, I would still suggest Wrath of the Righteous to newcomers mainly because it is better structured and better paced for the first few acts. There's a nice sense of scale and progression from Act 1 to Act 3 before you're off exploring at your own pace whereas Kingmaker immediately starts you off on that path and then throws in some Kingdom management tutorials after only one act.

[@Offbeaten]

I think you should mention that, you probably want to play Kingmaker first if you intend to play both. Going back from Wrath is a bit of a rough experience with how improved the sequel is.

[@fredmonroe6042]

Thanks for your review.

[@Speedfly1]

Very helpful. Thank you.

[@quickpawmaud]

This video actually convinced me to get WotR since I was super overwhelmed by Kingmaker and quit midway through act 2.

[@Guesh13]

My favorite RPG. I have been playing RPG's since The Bard's Tale in 1986. It's that good.

[@blanchiplanchi]

Uuufff i played for 186 hours and it is a game that helps you to hate it!! But still is amazing, I do not know how to describe it, I love it to death and at the same time I just want to chocked it slowly in hate

[@lovecrafthq2072]

Of course you should!One of the best RPG'S rhat you can play. This game looks awesome and is pure old school rolgame. Play this,the second or warhammer 40000 rogue trader or all of them.

[@DasNetzwerk]

That is some great advice!

[@andrewstencel]

I played a few hours of it, and enjoyed it a lot! Though it's still installed on my machine, I've temporarily dropped it along some other games, due to a certain crpg burnout, but I'm eager to finish them all someday.

[@alexpoobum]

played kingmaker a couple of years ago, loved it and got to the kingdom part and stopped because it was stressful, picked it up again last week and restarted and enjoyed much more. Bought the second in the series and i prefer that alot more, seems more suited to newer players.

[@meanmanturbo]

One game I would love to see you tackle is Darklands. It is the first isometric real time with pause game that I know of, being released in 1992. So it is a DOS game, but you can get it both at GOG and Steam with dosbox preapared. What makes it so uniqe is the setting, that of a historic 15th century Germany/Holy Roman Empire with the twist that supernatural folklore things of that time exists in the game, like the wild hunt, but also religious things like demons. There is no magic per say but priests (well, there is no priest class but we will get to that) gets powers from studying actual Catholic saints and there is alchemy for producing potions both for offence and utility. The character creation system is also skill based, you don't get any levels, you just improve your skills. Charachter generation is done through 5 year career choices sort of like Traveler ttg. Pillars of eternity also took some inspiration from the game, most notably the text adventure stuff as well as the endurance system and the armor and penteration system. The game has a fair share of clunk and is very complicated but there is also nothing like it, would love to see you do a 100% on it (even though the game does not have achievments).

[@jacoporegini8841]

Playing Kingmaker after Wotr is actually a very good idea, especially if you tried before and struggled a lot. I haven't touched this game for nearly three years, I do rememember the final chapter of the game being a harrowing experience. Now with my pure mad dog barbarian, smilodon pet and my party built to perfection it feels catharthic. After journeying through the Worldwound and the Abyss, the Stolen Land on challenging feel like a nice stroll. Nothing can stop us, even the most terrifying encounters can barely slow us down! I can't wait to meet you know who and give him the Baphomet/Deskaari treatment.

[@Laban6112]

I liked Kingmaker story and general feel more, but WoTR is a leap forward mechanics-wise.

[@shakalaka165]

So, I finished Pathfinder:Wotr about half a year ago, got secret ending, finished all side quests, etc. And it was a blast. I really enjoyed it. Story, mechanics, combat, everything. Should i try Kingmaker? Or its a huge downgrade in comparison with Wotr. Mostly interested in story \ mechanics \ combat. Also, i did a little research on nexus, and there are a lot of mods for simplifying that scary kingdom mode, so i`ll probably use those.

[@TacticusPrime]

I would say that Kingmaker isn't **that** much clunkier than WotR. Especially with mods.

[@MarcoC72186]

I feel like if owlcat went back and added a few things they implemented in Wotr. Not anything big, just a few classes, some spells, and overhauled some of the kingdom management, it would be a lot more enjoyable.

[@christophertheofilos1063]

Unless you are playing with some harsh difficulty options it is really hard to fail the game. Wrath is a definite improvement over,but both games have well written stories and characters (along with some poorly written ones) and are worth playing. Tuesday should see the release of the roguelite DLC for Wrath,but Kingmaker's Beneath the Stolen Lands is an awesome example of how to do a story DLC with extra, the extra being an out of campaign Rogue lite mode that let's you create the entire party in a somewhat randomized version of the dungeon. That alone gives Kingmaker huge replay value versus Wrath (atm)

[@themoabrigade]

I have been really enjoying Kingmaker.... but I 100% agree..... good god it is stressful, this is a game I would not hesitate to use a guide on!

[@jeramie1992]

Kingmaker was one of the first crpgs I played when it released on ps4 and I loved it up until it started crashing on me every 20 mins near the end of the game. It was definitely alot to learn but I liked that. Also Harrim and Nok Nok are 2 of my favorite companions in any game.

[@danielbricker7204]

I found out (before they patched and fixed it) that every time you would use the figurines of wonderus power (to summon the wyverns) instead of reusing the same wyvern over and over, it was spawning a new one and tacking it onto your save file. it was a bit obsurd.

[@Shikao87]

When feasible I do prefer to play the games in order they were released. I did for example with Shadowruns and it was good decision as I don't imagine playing Returns after Dragonfall (or more extreme example ME1 after ME2/3). However, I have limits e.g. I will definitely skip Wasteland 1, not sure yet about second one. So yeah, I started Kingmaker and I am currently in 93%, but that's because it takes time as you said, not that I gave up (yet). Whereas Pathfinder is new setting for me, it was not new system exactly. Thus getting to know new world, while having good grasp of core mechanics was so far a positive experience. Kingdom management was fun... until I ran out of BP =P

[@deaj8450]

As someone who started with wotr and has gone back to Kingmaker very recently I have mixed feelings so far. I think my main issue with the game is just how long each quest feels comparatively. I swear even the early quest with mites vs kobolds felt like it rivaled the Midnight Fane in scope, the dungeon was just massive. It's too many encounters to be fun. I feel like wotr has the same problem just to a much lesser extent. This is probably due to me being newer to these systems. Wotr might as well be my first crpg and i adore it. Otherwise I've played a few hours of some others, not ever getting into them much. I want like 4 or 5 unique, challenging, and cool fights per dungeon rather than two dozen "trash" fights. Maybe 10 to 15 for big set piece dungeons. I am one of those people who absolutely love crusade and kingdom management. I would go as far as to say it probably is my favorite part of Kingmaker. There are some companions I really wish I could drag into my wotr playthrough. I wanna see a party of Jaethal, Amiri, Camellia, Wendu, Kanerah, Regill and Ember. I feel like they would get shit done. Though I would greatly worry for Ember's mental health.

[@paradox3210]

I beg to differ. I started Kingmaker as a newbie, and I really like it so far. I am even playing on Hard. It is challenging, but rewarding. The story is captivating as well. Try it 👍

[@sixseven404]

That's encouraging

[@grimmetal2802]

You got that right, still haven't beat the final boss. It's been months since, and now I'm wondering if I should lower the difficulty. May have been also because I messed up my build for the characters.

[@dallonavery1482]

Ok ok, I know this is a rather old video and you probably won't read this, but I, myself, started playing PoE 2: Deadfire in hopes to finish it before attempting Pathfinder: Kingmaker. Now, since Deadfire started to crash on me, I'm not able to continue to play it, (and to be honest I took such a long break from the game, I would need to start all over again, cause I don't remember much of it) although I enjoyed Deadfire a lot. Since Owlcat Games is a russian studio, I've been dying to try their games. Now, I am playing kingmaker, and I am enjoying it a lot! I am not very familiar with the D&D and Pathfinder TTGs and their rules, but I've played enough RPGs to not completely suck. I don't even know what I'm trying to say here. I guess I wanted to say that I really love the unique spin that the kingdom management adds to the classical CRPG. What other RPG game lets you rule over a country? I can't remember one. These games are super hardcore and they allow more freedom than most modern games. For example, in Deadfire, I killed one of my companions because he was too obnoxious. Yes, I probably lost his questline, but so what? And as for the difficulty - in Kingmaker my party consists of 6 heroes and yet we're all easily killed by ONE leopard! I'd also like to say that I love Pillars of Eternity Deadfire for its set up too, and I also have the Wrath of the Rigeous ahead of me, which I already know I will greatly enjoy. And one more thing - your channel is my favorite gaming channel on KZbin!

[@SkarneZ]

I'm so close on kingmaker almost to act 4 but I've been playing since the start of the year lol. On Xbox series X using a 65" 8k OLED TV with the Sony HT-A6 surround sound system has made the game feel different. I think I enjoy the sound design and music in this game the most. I'm a very casual player that reads everything and I definitely feel decision paralysis, glee, regret, sadness, and excitement. Definitely a love/hate feel playing through as a lawful evil monk.

[@Nightscape_]

Thanks for the review. The game lost me when you mentioned timers. I'm too old for stressful gameplay.

[@nyarparablepsis872]

I enjoyed the CRPG aspect immensely, but the %$@#&* kingdom management really managed to suck all the fun out of it for me. I hate being on a clock, and my natural drive to explore a game world was really hemmed in by the whole timer thing. It upsets me still because I love 3.5 and Pathfinder, and I wanted to experience the story.

[@autopsy181]

Great game and totally worth it. Has some bugs here and there but still a great game! Time limits worried me but were not an issue whatsoever.

[@grantwallace1882]

I am loving it so far. Bought it on GOG for 3.99€.

[@michaostrowski6316]

Super fun game in my opinion. The best adaptation of a tabletop system in any videogame. I played it exclusively in turn-based mode, which takes way more time but is the best alternative for pen and paper RPGs a working guy like myself can get. If you want to play it be warned -- the game is indeed long. Finishing the story, the dungeon DLC, the companion DLC, every quest I could find on top of exploring every corner of the map took me about 140 hours. After I finished it though I really felt satisfied with the choice of endings the game presented to me. You could say the endings really crown the adventure;p

[@scottperry7311]

Over 200 hours into the first Pathfinder Kingmaker game. Just finished the War of River Kingdoms quest line. I really want to like this game but it has some big problems. First and foremost is Kingdome Management and the advisors. You have to spend years of in game time leveling them up and then they still keep have lover and lower chances of being successful at missions, on top of that are the infernal timers for the whole process. You have to micro manage your ministers and their time or you can completely fail the game if your kingdom falls. This is far more like a card game than a RPG. There are also a lot of hidden checks going on in the background of encounters and if you miss some of those, which happens all the time, there is no way to undo what you missed unless you reload and go back or find a loophole. I am pretty familiar with these types of games and yet in this game there are lots of thing that I don't know and learn as time goes on which if i knew earlier would have made the game much more enjoyable. A lot of quests and puzzles seem to have no clues on how to solve them or no hints, or if there are hints they are buried in some imperceptible thing in game, or the mountains and mountains of text which grind you to tears. There is tons of potential in this game but the Kingdom Management kill the game, with the tons of timers adding to the misery. This game could be great if the game were cut down to be an adventure game with less Kingdome Management, less text but text that actually was useful more often, and getting rid of hidden perception checks or unchangeable event outcomes, like when you don't do the right thing like break something but move it instead and then cant get into doors you can clearly see and should otherwise be able to open.

[@Scarygomez]

Errr yes, yes you should!!! 😀

[@Wolfdorf]

Just finished the game, some tips: visit all map locations, for this, boost perception as much as you can, boost persuasion because a lot of exp comes out of it. For your main Character don't play anything crazy, play a barbarian or something like that. Make sure you have a cleric, everything that gives or offers passive or active freedom of movement get it. For the advisors use the right people, for example the warden should be someone with high constitution (look for the right Stat for each role) . On Kingdom mgmt try to rank up stats as a priority , then problems, then curses, then projects, then opportunities. For rank ups, after 40 level ups you will get a project to reduce the time to 7 days instead of 14. Don't stress over time, it's manageable. FINISH all companion quests and always pair Jaethal and Tristan on their companion quests.

[@bobsatan69]

i love kingmaker it's not perfect but i love it. before i played it i knew nothing about the pathfinder ttrpg but now i've learned alot and am even familiar with most of the adventure paths.

[@JohnSmith-vm6hd]

I completely agree

[@aggieking87]

Just downloaded and started yesterday lol hoping the answer is yes 🤞🏻 (had free on EGS)

[@user-qn4xu4tq7n]

My first ever crpg type game (only have a play station never got to experience the genre) overall had a blast and I'm looking at checking out the classics in the genre I missed out like baulders gate

[@drank.sinatra]

just found out about the crpg genre and im completely addicted. i just completed dos1&2 a couple days ago, currently playing pillars of eternity with the sequel on standby. i couldn’t help myself so i got kingmaker and im 2 hours in. it’s really challenging so i play on custom difficulty. i never see people saying this but i assume most of the fun comes out of the difficult combat. i guess im just playing through this one on easy, so when i play the sequel im more prepared & comfortable. im very limited on time so i don’t have the luxury to replay games or do another run as a new build, id rather experience all the games and once im done ill feel better about doing so.

[@Trenaway]

YES, you should play it! It is a lot of fun!

[@chiefheath9339]

Kingmaker just hits really different fr I loved it

[@abylaybissekenov1588]

Thank you, should check WOTR in future

[@spellandshield]

I have a permanent save going in the sense of, I play a little bit and then realise what a slog it will be if I continue and then I stop. I probably should get back to it.

[@dik4316]

KM has a better story, WR has more toys to look at (but not really play with).

[@LastSider]

Ive sunked over 200 hrs on Kingmaker and only got halfway through. Its a really LONG game. You can be familiar with games like Baldur's Gate but not with how the tabletop D&D games are, this can be a rude awakening. Like the whole resting mechanic and the timers.

[@EggeyeDragon]

Newbie just finished Pathfinder Kingmaker (no spoiler) I absolutely loved it. I'm very emotional and not very rational as soon as I finish something I liked but let me be honest, I had much lower expectations of this game being an "indie" but in terms of content it is one of the richest experiences I have ever played. It's full of bullshit... some puzzles and the last 2 Chapters are terrifying, but the freedom in roleplay, exploration, atmosphere and art direction are wonderful. I can't comment on the combat because I played it on "easy" simply because I want to play WOTR and that's the game I would like to play "300 hours" if I had done the same with kingmaker I would have gotten tired so not knowing Pathfinder I used this experience as a Tutorial and it was... Brutal, it's one of the least understandable games I've ever played, I practically would have had a friend next to me to understand it but the gameplay is obviously one of its strong points and the deep Difficulty Settings makes it a complete experience (Besides Bags of Tricks) . I unexpectedly found myself invested in the Party, they are all BEAUTIFUL, really how fucking beautiful are they!? HOW MUCH!? I love everyone! Linzi was my little sister, Amiri please kick me (BLOOD FOR GOROM!!!), Octavia and Regongar are SO SWEET they have been through so much, Harrim is very original, a "nihilistic priest" who chose Groteus to ignore his inability in forging but then found its stability, Nok-Nok

[@negruvadalamuie5461]

I liked Kingmaker more than Wrath. Less of a theme park, more of a RPG.

[@skjefull8786]

I would agree. If you are a huge CRPG fan pick it up for sure, if you can only choose one, pick WoTR.

[@mitoryninja]

I have a question, have you heard maybe about Chronicles of Myrtana: Archolos? It's a free mod to gothic 2. And really big one, can be downloaded on steam. Unfortunately it has only english subs (audio is polish). I think it's worth to check it out for oldschool rpg players.

[@fragilemetal1982]

Counterpoint. If you are someone who loves CRPGs and doesn't mind playing on easy/story mode, absolutely pick up this title. I'm still playing through it, very familiar with CRPGs but first time in Pathfinder universe, I struggled with difficulty initially but am having a blast with kingdom management turned off and some other options changed to my favour. 100% play for fans of these games. Side note. I believe Pathfinder:Kingmaker and Divinity:Original Sin are often seen as redundant due to the sequel being an improvement in every aspect. The fanbase tends to forget that reason these titles had sequels is because the originals were so well received in the first place. Just because they improved menus and mechanics the second time around, does not mean people should avoid the story and characters of previous title. I'm personally happier having found characters like Wolgraff and Amiri, being introduced to their worlds calamities like Source/Bloom, and the hours worth of smaller stories inbetween.

[@twohorsesinamancostume7606]

For me, the biggest problem with the Pathfinder games is that they're Pathfinder. Don't get me wrong, it's a good system if you're playing with friends on the tabletop and you've only got one character to learn and manage. Pathfinder has systems on top of systems with subclasses that are slightly different than each other and it can be daunting to figure out one class, let alone the 5 others in your party. Most classes are straightforward but many of them you really have to buckle down and learn how to play because they aren't the usual classes everyone has seen before. Add on top of that the class and stat choices Owlcat made with companion NPCs and an unforgiving system with sometimes extremely quirky mechanics with unforgiving fights and it can lead to frustration quickly. I understand the system now and the way Owlcat has built encounters but it took me multiple failed attempts to figure out that Owlcat decided to give bosses insane AC and resistances and the problem wasn't that I was underleveled for an encounter, I just needed to buff and debuff the hell out of any boss I met with multiple layers of both to succeed. That said I liked Kingmaker more, mainly because demons have extremely high elemental resists so having a non-divine offensive caster in your party is harder than it needs to be.

[@ex0stasis72]

I enjoyed Kingmaker more than Wrath of the Righteous because in Wrath, you are generally either good or evil, and if you're evil, then the story doesn't make any sense; but in Kingmaker, you get to make more morally grey, nuanced choices.

[@rpmfla]

Kingmaker is overwhelming in several ways with a ridiculous number of choices for skills/abilities/paths, a huge game world, very uneven combat difficulty spikes, and so on. It is likely fun for very experienced Pathfinder players. I'm a long time CRPG player, and while I had intermittent fun with this I probably only made it about half way through. It was just too much of everything! I purchased "Wrath" on Steam when it was on sale as I read that it is better in most respects but haven't tried it yet.

[@nodieza]

$8 on PSN right now, until 9/1/22. At that price I might give it a shot to check out the systems and world and when Wrath dips down grab that for a more serious time investment.

[@spaceghostohio7989]

You summed it up well..got it dirt cheap on the Epic game store. Got @ 30 hrs in and gave up. Still trying to decide on Wotr...Wotr is 50% off on Steam so probably the time to pull the trigger.

[@Fluffykeith]

WotR is so much better, the campaign system is much more user friendly and doesn't fight you with timed quests constantly. Better story, better companions. I hated Kingmaker....I'm planning multiple playthroughs of WotR

[@SpaceVENTING]

Can you still stay in the act before moving on to complete side quests? Or do you automatically move on to the next act when you finish the main quest. I ask cause people say you can do the side stuff after each main act and i wanna know what is meant by that

[@sechu2]

Awesome game :) close to perfection.

[@DarthRadical]

The Kingdom Management isn't great for its own sake, but it adds a lot of context/stakes to the game as a whole.

[@freakyfro99]

I enjoyed Kingmaker for quite a while but I just never got around to finishing it. At some point I just stopped enjoying it. I've tried twice and got quite a bit further the second time, since I was more comfortable with the Pathfinder system, but I still couldn't complete it. I really didn't like the Kingdom Management but didn't want to put it on Auto. The fact that things could spring up while you were super far away and you'd have to interrupt what you were doing and go all the way back to deal with things was incredibly annoying to me. I know there was other stuff but it's been so long that I can't really remember any more lol. I did really like a lot of the side characters though, companion quests were solid. Idk it just didn't grab me overall. But WotR refined things enough for me that I've played the base game through all the way twice.

[@Scotty86doo]

Id buy this game in a heartbeat if it had coop

[@LORDOFDORKNESS42]

I really need to try this game again. Played before the turn-based update, with a Alchemist I just was not feeling after a couple of hours. Oh, and probably swallow the pride and turn the difficulty down to easy, so I don't have to spend every freakin' fight buffing everybody for five minutes. Never liked that design choice for normal fights.

[@michaelhand4246]

i did the same and sunk about 60 hours into the game before stopping. years later i restarted and beat it, put another 100 hours in. Was definitely worth revisiting. - put on easy. there's no shame in this game. Easy still means you die, and is more similar to most games on normal. especially if you hate prebuffing your characters between fights, putting it on easy is almost like toggling buffs on 24/7, so it isn't crazy easy.

[@silverdarksidez2932]

I think one of the problems with the two pathfinder games is that they can be overly punishing to new players if you don't follow a guide or lower the difficulty to steamroll everything.

[@newnamesameperson397]

The learning curve isn't that steep and the difficulty can by adjusted anytime. New players just have to realize rng is king and just about everything is based on dice rolls

[@therdku]

@@newnamesameperson397 the only thing this comment is missing is "git good". Silver makes a good point. The Easy difficulty was too easy and Normal was too punishing. RNG and Dice Rolls are in a lot of cRPG games, but somehow other games don't make you feel like you are trying to kill a tank with a stick. I've seen mobs in Pathfinder with more immunities than the collective bosses in other cRPGs.

[@Centrioless]

I really enjoyed my playthrough in core difficulty. I think the game really wants you to utilize the wide range of roles, buffs, and debuffs in this game. In every single encounter, i need someone to tank, to buff, to cc, to heal, to nuke, to do the aoe dmg. Every single role is important amd every single enemy has its own unique weakness. Coming from d:os2 where every encounter can be solved by nuking (it was really easy to solo that game), pathfinder offers a much more strategic gameplay.

[@HappyCamper84]

I started playing last week. Yes, yes you should play it. Although I'm looking forward to playing it without the kingdom management.

[@nosferatu5872]

Might get back onto this game on ps4 . I left pathfinder to play poe2 but the loading times are awful on console for poe2 so i think ill play kingmaker until w.o.t.r comes out

[@therdku]

I have 100h into Kingmaker, played relatively close to launch. I did not finish it and to me it was borderline traumatic, well, as traumatic as a game can be not trying to be a martyr here. But the point is Kingmaker was such a stressful experience to play that I don't think I will ever play a Pathfinder game again, even though everyone keeps saying that the second game is much better. I know they are good games, I think Kingmaker itself is a good game. But it's a good game I absolutely hate.

[@deaj8450]

For what it's worth, as a complete newbie to crpgs I played wotr and was able to get into it. I went back to Kingmaker armed with all my knowledge and it is indeed traumatic. So many enemies, strict weight management, trying to decide what quest order you have to do, etc. I think wrath of the righteous is a much kinder game to the player. It gives you more direction, I didn't find myself lost in wotr like I do at times in kingmaker. And I think most of the dungeons in wotr are smaller, or at least have less encounters. Also way more class options but they make everything pretty understandable. Very good UI as well imo which helps.

[@lostsagaonlyyes8598]

These type of games require a lot of mental fortitude to play through if you are not familiar with the systems, and Kingmaker is a ridiculously huge game. Keep that in mind.

[@shaneblair-hicks4975]

Yes!

[@warmevening6380]

Kingmaker is an AWSOME game!!! maybe the best computer game in the world!!!

[@itubei9315]

Played both and definitely prefer the Kingmaker. For me personally crusade fells a boring waste of time. Besides I like that in Kingmaker you're a simple dude, but I felt more in control. In WotR you're a mythic figure, yet I felt more on rails. So I just dropped WotR on chapter 5, it loosing its magic on me, although I still enjoyed the game... But would rather read or watch a story summary at some point

[@zebwiz1900]

I played this near launch when it was really imbalanced. Used a cheat engine to buff my character and had a blast playing it for the story. It's basically what I wanted from DA:I when it came to ruling a kingdom.

[@ScytheFly]

if you like WOTR, Kingmaker is a must play. Since main enemy is fey, it's a lot more colorful than wotr you get to see things that kinda opposite to what you see in wotr. only downside is you have less chioce in character making but not much affect on how you roleplay. if it get remake in wotr engine it will be even better

[@akuma6215]

I love both games. Wrath is a better game but the companions are WAY better and more interesting in Kingmaker

[@HolderoftheHeel]

Would it be worth playing through with auto kingdom management and in story mode just to experience the world, story, characters, etc.?

[@MortismalGaming]

Yeah if you want

[@XoRandomGuyoX]

Invisible failure state timers really annoy me, so I am part of that 93% that never reached the ending. I love all the options available for characters in the Pathfinder system, but hate the idea of having to constantly juggle chainsaws which threaten to end the game at any moment.

[@mikfhan]

Same here, I know there is plenty of time if I just prioritize the main quest first, but traveling back and forth to friendly territory gets tedious and burns your quest timers if you do it too often. I would prefer the timers were visible. At least we can set kingdom difficulty to "never lose" and just ignore it, let it crumble to ashes as we beeline for the main quest. It feels wrong, but that is what the gameplay compels you to do. I'll probably go for WotR once a good discount for complete edition is available.

[@REALVINERGY]

I could not get through Kingmaker on my first run, or well, runs, as I did like 20 restarts. Might give it a shot 1 more try before starting WOTR, as these games really are my niche