Shouldn't We All Be Haredim? - Rabbi Joseph Dweck

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החבורה היא בית מדרש מקוון שמטרתו לקדם את לימוד תורת חכמי ספרד בציבור הרחב, בידיעה שתכלית התורה היא להגיע לידיעת האל ואהבתו דרך התבוננות בבריאה. החבורה מארגנת שיעורים מדי שבוע במגוון נושאים, ומוציאה לאור ספרים ברוח המסורת הספרדית, וכן כתב-עת תורני "עקרונות". הצטרפו לקהילת הלומדים של החבורה ובואו להכיר יותר לעומק את תורתנו ואת חכמתה.
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[@Keter-royalerestorations]

Very good shiur. Thank you Rabbi.

[@avigarson9150]

There is another more straightforward answer to the title of the video. If the Jewish people are supposed to be an אור לגויים as per the prophecy of Isaiah then the Haredi model is not fit for purpose because in no way is it taking us in that direction. If we are to pursue that noble and inspiring vision of the Prophets then we must model our Judaism and approach on that of our biblical leaders, hazal, our great Hakhamim, people like Maimonides, Abarbanel etc - who even in times of discrimination strove to integrate and inspire the world, modern day heroes such as Rabbi Sacks who shone a light on our Torah and brought religious remedies to an afflicted world and everyday Jewish citizens who are part of the workforce and the world who are ambassadors of the Jewish people and leave a Kiddush Hashem wherever they go. Being part of this world and maintaining our commitment to Torah and tradition, only then do we fulfill our national role and the other nations will turn at us and say לעיני העמים אשר ישמעון את כל החקים האלה ואמרו רק עם חכם ונבון הגוי הגדול הזה “that great nation is a wise and discerning people”

[@bookmouse2719]

What is wrong with a religious, ethical book keeper? Salesman? Doctor? Lawyer? Judge? Handyman, produce salesman? If you don't live in a Haradi neighborhood but near a regular (Israeli) shul you can do kiruv work amongst the Hellini. Every Jew has value to Hashem. One other thing: G-d gives you your living. Hashem put us in the world for a purpose (tests, for blessing, light unto the Nations, and tikun hanefesh)

[@DanielSRosehill]

Fantastic shiur. Hakham Dweck dares to apply critical thinking withing Orthodoxy!

[@bookmouse2719]

There is a danger in learning philosophy, being single and going to secular university, having a "smart" phone that isn't filtered.

[@yosefzee7605]

Is that a question or a statement ?

[@MariaConceicao-nn3lk]

Legendar ( português)???

[@lewiakk5844]

So what’s the point of Torah? To tell you that you should know God?

[@mmmnn2]

listen around minute 56

[@marshallwood2968]

Are you saying that the Ben ish Chai and Chacham Ovadiah are wrong and don't know Hashem?

[@jewishsoundbites3357]

I did not hear anything about people being "wrong" in this shiur. The reality is that Maimonides and many other Spanish rabbanim held that the study of science and nature is a prerequisite to know Hashem. Selicha, but your question should be pointed at those Rabbanim, not at this shiur

[@ronnno245]

@@jewishsoundbites3357The reality is he that he very clearly implied that the Ben Ish Hai and Hacham Ovadya, do not know Hashem by pointing them out specifically. Such Chutzpah ! Don’t pretend our Sepharadi Hachamim didn’t know the Rambam.

[@MariaConceicao-nn3lk]

Pode traduzir para o português???

[@mmmnn2]

Todos?

[@abedanziger2200]

Excellent Shiur, though you are really presenting the position of Rav Samson Raphael Hirsch ZT”L of Torah IM Derech Eretz

[@abedanziger2200]

Also, while I agree with everything you said… in theory, practically speaking in todays environment, I disagree with your conclusion. I think even Rambam would say that today we should go to a Midbar. While I was university trained (while in an intensive Yeshiva) and Graduate School, I did not send most of my children. Universities today are recruiting grounds for Apikorsis and just inhospitable to morality how much more so inhospitable to Torah. Today l, I believe the risks are greater with this approach. Maybe a a school like Touro is an exception.. maybe.

[@ohadfedida1468]

Hello, Abe. I hear your point. Although, I don't think the approach R. Dweck presented necessitates the wholesale acceptance of all facets of modern day culture. We must still be very judicial, and cautiously navigate the world with all of its toxins. Even when Rambam speaks of running to the Midbar, I don't think this is referring to adopting a Haredi approach (as presented above) which rejects the intrinsic value of the "secular" world. While it is through the world we come to know Gd, I think we all have to make our own decisions regarding what way we choose to navigate toxins.

[@abedanziger2200]

@@ohadfedida1468 I agree with you that Rambam does not reject the “intrinsic” value of the secular world… but what does he say we do when that secular world is so far removed from any redeeming Torah values? Yes we need to be selective of what we take into our home and minds and that if our children, but today, we are being left with very little that is redeemable. As a Maimonidean and Hirschian I believe that in todays environment the risks of too much exposure to the secular world is much more dangerous than the risk of no exposure. It is a very difficult balance to maintain in the best of times. Arshreichem for people who manage to get it right, but errors in todays destructive culture is far more dangerous than just 30 years ago. I am one of those people who identifies with Hareidi but feels more at home philosophically outside of that community. As someone once said… “I Daven with people that I can’t talk to, and I talk to people that I can’t Daven with”. Thank you for this community, I am impressed with what I’ve seen so far. As R’ Deweck properly says, each side has its risks but I fear the risks of this approach today is the greater of the two. In the Haredi world a child may not have the perfect concept of Gd, but that pales in comparison to someone who Gd forbid is lost to Klal Yisrael forever.

[@avigarson9150]

You raise a fair point about the levels of toxicity in today's culture and the moral decay of the West. Nevertheless, I don't believe it is a binary option of Torah-only versus embracing everything hook, line, and sinker. There's obviously a fine middle path one needs to navigate and that requires much forethought and guidance. I believe Rabbi Dweck's message is that if you truly recognise that God is Author of the World then maths, biology, physics, economics etc are all His expressions and since we are charged to "Know God" then one cannot afford to dismiss this direct encounter with the divine. There's another problem with the Haredi policy of retreat. It is unreasonable to expect people who have been exposed to the "light" (and darkness) of the outside world to go back underground, shackle themselves and their children and teach them that the shadows and illusions (abundant in Haredi education) they see on the rocks inside the cave are real. Once someone recognises the immense wisdom, beauty and depth that exists out there, be it in science, literature or art, it does not make any sense to encourage one to retreat to ignorance and essentially forego the pursuit of truth. Surely, an approach that doesn't demand either/or and doesn't expect one to abandon what they know to be valuable and rich is the ideal.

[@bookmouse2719]

Another option: learn some kind of trade and move to eretz Israel, (electric & plumbing is different), an important trade or hobby can be turned into a living. Learn Hebrew really well to get by. Also, medical field (trama and healing)...also sales. Also it's what happens in the home that effects your children. One can be Dati Leumi (Religious national people are often extremely religious and connected to H'). Haradim have side jobs carpentry, practical jobs, book keeping, handy man.

[@abedanziger2200]

@@avigarson9150 again, you are preaching to the choir, as the saying goes. My point is simple. Let’s take an honest assessment of the Haredi world and the non Haredi world over the past 70 years. I can only speak of the United States as that is where I have the most experience. While there are of course exceptions in every system, where do find the most “commitment” to real Limud HaTorah and Mitzvos? I have been living a life for the past 60 plus years feeling that I don’t fit anywhere. But I can tell you this… when making a decision on where to raise my family and what Yeshivos to send them, the answer was very simple. I always asked myself, where is my best chance for success in mine and their Avodas HaShem? We can wax philosophy and theory all we want, but when the rubber hits the road, what do the statistics tell us? We are after all believers in science. If forced to make a decision between Torah and Derech Eretz, if such a binary decision were the only options, what would you choose? What would a Rambam choose? The point being, I believe we should expose our children to a controlled amount of Derech Eretz (science, math, history, acceptable literature) but within the Haredi framework. Just look around, do you see real commitment to serious Limud Hatorah and Dikduk Mitzva, outside of that community? Again, im taking broad brush here. This is true in both the Sefardi and ashkenazi communities.