Show this Video to Microsoft: Hearthstone Has Reached a DEAD END!

[@basvriese1934]

I just hope they make older expansions available in a very affordable way, so you don't have to keep up your collection all the time to remain relevant

[@woof7611]

Then people would just dust cheat

[@water2770]

@@woof7611 simple solution, when obtained in the affordable way just don't let them be disenchantable

[@basvriese1934]

@@woof7611 they could just make the cards acquired that way non dustable

[@woof7611]

not a simple solution, it would just serve as a wasteful storage increase. You have to assume majority of people wouldn't buy these packs in the first place. Also, non-disenchantable cards? People would riot.@@water2770

[@lucjanl1262]

Or meaby make some special "broken/forgotten/abandoned" decks which tou can buy for 25 gold but the cards themself are special type like golden, so the are disenchanted for 25% dust and the cards themselves have an uglier more used/damaged look

[@1Henrink]

Heartstone lost me a long time ago, and the biggest reason was the cost. It is sad to see that cost it's is still a problem, but now in a new way.

[@kyotheman69]

its far to expensive why i dropped it a long time ago too I play Marvel snap now and barely spend much i have most the cards, plus find more fun and quicker game sessions

[@Simplycoburn]

I stopped playing hearthstone and started playing magic lol. Much more expensive

[@seja098]

Nah, the biggest reason is the blatant riggness and matchmaking system in favour of the person that loses so many times they have to "let him win" to make it 50/50.

[@jesuslovesyou-mattsmith1502]

I never understand why people think it's too expensive. You can hit legend and build decks as FTP

[@MadGamerRus]

Yeah you can be FTP easily but I understand that some people can't play arenas 4-5 hours a day and constantly profit or AFK in PvE mercs non-stop. And the amount of cards needed to enter Wild/Twist is astonishing for new players

[@murketta]

I don't think people will spend more on standart if bg were not introduced, some of my WoW friends start playing Hs only because of Bg and they like to have 4 slot available, I think that without bg HS would probably have way less player, you literally can play a cardgame withound needing to construct a deck , and the learning curve is way easier than tft , where apart from positiong you also need to learn the right objects to construct and the best buff to choose.

[@sensorian1709]

I think you've nailed it on their half hearted approach to new modes. There is a misconception they want the new modes to be successful. I think they are just trying to squeeze out some cash without jeopardizing the main cash cow. Battlegrounds must drive them nuts.

[@Dre2Dee2]

That's a good point. Battlegrounds is a loss leader right now. Makes them NO money, but they hope you stop by standard and play that A more expensive less fun mode? Hrmmmmm, no thanks lol

[@Saleos25]

What you stated is also the reason why they're adding more and more classes. With each class added, the card pool gets bigger and the lower the chance is to get the cards for the class you actually want to play, so you have to buy even more cards.

[@JetLaw]

Why can’t they add a tournament mode for standard to play conquest and/or last hero standing? They almost made this originally (not the way it should have been made) and it gives players a new way to play while still encouraging the use of standard format

[@JetLaw]

I wanted to add that the Conquest mode in Marvel Snap works the same way in that you build your collection the same way as the “standard” method to play

[@CookieDealer]

How about bundling the "Full access to 1 class" into the tavern pass, with level milstones unlocking additional classes to pick. Would probably make more people consider buying it.

[@lilblucommi4779]

reminds me of buying 2 hero unlocks in the battlegrounds tavern pass. sounds good. they’d nerf it hard if they were going to implement it but still, not bad.

[@CookieDealer]

@@lilblucommi4779 I guess it would still be fine if they nerfed it to be like "Access all cards from this expansion for this class!" and then offer it to like 3-4 more heroes overtime as you level up.

[@jesuschrist9677]

It will be a gamepass reward. Connect ur blizzard account to a Microsoft account with an active game pass to gain access to all cards from twist while the subscription is active.

[@BrownCookieBoy]

"Rent cards" Sounds depressing.

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

I agree, but this is the only way to open full access to the mode without breaking the game's economy.

[@wgarrison495]

Cross-block was a mode that I always wanted to see, and that is the basis for twist, but it was implemented so late. If they implemented it sooner, they might have been able to get more players to retain old cards and use money instead of dust for new cards. What I was expecting them to do is have a mix of the 1-2 newest expansions with some of the old ones to create never before seen metagames, and this would add extra incentive to purchase the new expansion. They might still be able to revive the mode by temporarily granting any wild cards to players for the rotation but requiring standard format cards to be in the collection. The current implementation involves 3 pillars of alienation: 1. Uses a set of cards that were a meta in the past, 2. Inject a small number of really high power cards that warp the meta in nasty ways, 3. Keep the mode extremely unaffordable by having no recognition of the depreciated value of wild cards.

[@jamesunderwear5645]

I can see how the "suits" think the alt formats will hurt sales of standard. But they are thinking incorrectly! I'm *more* likely to buy cards and not dust them if I know they will be truly useful after rotation, and in different formats. It makes me a loyal customer.

[@sk8ergamer]

Hi my friend, glad to see Mercenaries mentioned 10:14 As a content creator that made videos on Mercenaries, the mode had so much potential... Sadly the mode turned out to be a joke cuz of the lack of effort from devs to make regular balance changes and the horrible economy

[@attilaolajkar6155]

I liked the mercenaries first. My problem with the mode was it's a new game and needed to learn all the new stuff.

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

I still play Mercenaries sometimes. There is still hope in my mechanical heart that they will re-release this mode one day.

[@sk8ergamer]

@@HearthstoneMathematics Good for you! Keep the hope alive and we will wait for the good news :)

[@RoTenken]

@@HearthstoneMathematics Still visit it to finish bounties. I'm almost done with them and the renown. It still has promise if developed well.

[@SwaileyHU]

Mercenaries sounded fun at first but WHY is it a goldsink mode WITHOUT it giving gold regularly for daily/weekly tasks? It's such a mind boggling solution. They should've just created a different, Mercenaries only currency and it wouldve made people care more. Im not willing to spend hundreds of golds on Mercenaries table upgrades when I can use that to fill the gaps in my card collection in general

[@kolst]

As an Arena player/streamer, this has been largely my takeaway as well. It's not like they actively want your mode to fail, but they just don't give half a crap if it does or not. They simply don't intend on producing an environment that you would ever want to "main" any other mode. The "side" modes aren't for that. They only exist to give Standard players another thing to do, now and then, if they get bored of Standard. This strengthens their relationship to the game. And those are the customers they care about - the people dumping all the money into Standard. Everything is built for them.

[@StrangerX9]

Twist is ruined for me after having to buy cards I already own in the Caverns of Time set. They said they would never do pack fillers again, and yet they did just that. The cards I already own that are in the set shouldn’t be obtainable twice! This is so gross and greedy! Another thing, is with each new year cards move to the hall of fame tab, but it seems like my cards are being DELETED when I search for all cards in that set. I’ll own the card in the standard set, but the legacy version isn’t there.

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

This is a very strange situation. My cards have never disappeared.

[@onlyMAPSreplytome]

Stop the 🧢

[@MiscTheGhost]

The problem I see with Twist is that packs never depreciated in value for older expansions. They stuck at the same value as Standard every single time: 100g per pack, most likely for dust balance reasons (Wouldn't want you to get 40 dust per 50g instead of 100g now would they?) But this just puts greater imbalance between the pack balance. Why would I want to buy an old pack and get the same average dust value but at the limit of it only being usable in an either rotating or unavailable game mode? Make the old packs cheaper, and it becomes too efficient to buy old packs and craft new cards instead. If they make some sort of "Legacy Dust" system, something to encourage dusting old cards into old legendaries at a greater yield (Commons dusting for 50 Legacy Dust instead of 5 Dust), then dust hoarders going into new expansions will flip out, and make barrier to entry for new expansion even harder and encourage spending money on only Standard Packs. It's a tough call.

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

This is an amazing comment. I found a player who understands the features, limitations and disadvantages of the game's economy. Thank you!

[@thepurityofchaos]

What if old cards also had a reduction in Dust value post-rotation? (Only if it was gotten after the pack cost reduction for the first 2 weeks or so)

[@CuteLittleLily]

how about the when you dust old card you only get dust for well old card, legacy dust. so you cant craft standard with that? but the thing is standard also used in wild. so that gonna be a mess to program and sort. i think the best way is a subscription based cause the card cant be disenchant and it cheap. make it that you can buy it with coin like BG pass. and boom now people that want to try can actually try

[@anthonyschwartz1084]

This is liky why Riot Games got rid of all other game modes in League of Legends, because they really only want people to play 5v5, but at the same time by them removing content, it pissed off people. So maybe adding content that they don't care or use, isn't a loss, but a gain to keep a smaller crowd pleased, because otherwise, that crowd might just not exist.

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

A very interesting thought. In other words, developers create things that are initially unviable so as not to harm the main way of playing and at the same time create a false sense of the development of the project.

[@Subject_Keter]

I played it abit in 2016, I found the other modes abit ... e x c i t i n g but of course since it was different, no one could play those maps without having to watch a video on how to walk.

[@N12015]

Thank You for remind me why I no longer play LoL. It might still be popular but now is more addiction than joy.

[@anthonyschwartz1084]

@@HearthstoneMathematics I believe so. And shareholders always want so see something being made / done. A new expansion every 3 months and it not growing in massive, won't make a shareholder confident over the years. A new mode on the otherhand, could show promise. Just like BG did, and future other non-standard projects will arise from Hearthstone. I doubt they are there for the players, they are to show growth and change.

[@Mr.nesser]

Somehow I never thought about how for newer players Twist is really rough to access. I started playing during the Whispers of the old gods expansion and had decks ready to go (as I love the old gods cards too much to disenchant) but I never thought about this not being the norm. I got a desperately needed hearthstone reality check. oof Thanks for it though

[@GodNeptune45]

Even older players that regularly dust older cards for newer ones. My friend dusts all the time because he plays free.

[@Simplycoburn]

I luckily have not dusted anything really but have kinda stopped playing hs

[@michaelvossen7253]

I had the misfortune of dusting my Older legendaries just before they announced the Twist Beta. I was absolutely sure I wouldn't need them since they weren't useful in my Wild decks. And I crafted a full Classic set because I thought it would be a permanent investment. The anguish made me stop playing for the entire Twist Beta.

[@wgh4636]

I hate im getting duplicates from mean streets, than new cards. Because these cards are re-released under a new set?! And the collection doesnt differentiate which set the card came from. Duplicate protection just oops there?!

[@TheXBoy5]

As an argentinean I dropped the game when they increased the prices hete. There's no way I'm paying Elden Ring's cost for a pre-purchase that won't even get me all the cards from the expansion.

[@DarthVader19991]

Damn. This is indeed a deadend. The new expansion also coming out too soon is too bad.

[@CaiRobinson]

While we know Phil Spencer is visting Blizzard in the next couple weeks (he mentioned it on the xbox podcast on yt) he said to specifically meet with the the teams there as hes meeting KIng this week. I expect things will come out of those meetings

[@matthiashornke9969]

One proven way to cross sell between Battlegrounds and Standard would be to rewards Battleground Players with minor discounts on actual card packs. That way you encourage people to buy packs and have a look at standard again, also you're not giving away anything for free since the discounts are literally useless unless players buy something. "Give em a Discount-Certificate, it'll burn a whole in their pocket"

[@Bad888Max]

Most people play 1-2 modes and they dont have time to play 3 different ranks modes. PLease make a video about dualmode hearthstone pros and cons- where you could play ranked and battlegrounds or 2 different rank modes at the same time. some games last long some are fast. you could play 2 modes most of the time. for example i usually play for quests and achievements therefore i dont go for high ranks. maybe if dual mode is available i could play deck in one rank mode for quests and other deck for ranked to try to get to legend.

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

This is a serious problem. Alternative ways to play should expand our capabilities but not complicate our lives with additional goals. I feel bad when I don't have time to progress in multiple formats throughout the season. I always have the fear of losing the star bonus.

[@abrahamovicovski]

I do play all three and also used to play classic but you're 100% right. The reason I can play so much is I work graveyard shifts where I have 4 to 5 hours of free time to fck around with each night for 5 days, plus my regular gaming dedicated time. Twist is destined to receive classic treatment. I always prioritize fast legend climb first week of the month with aggro decks especially in wild. Then I spend rest of the month playing arenas and duels to increase my golden cards in collection. I played mercenaries and I'm glad it's dead cuz roguelike isn't the direction this game is meant to be but I absolutely hate battlegrounds.

[@lindemberg21]

the game is dead in Brazil since the day they changed the prices localized to only charge in direct dollar conversion

[@rainbowcoloredsoapdispenser]

Speaking as an old school hearthstone player (the first thing come out when I started playing was Blackrock Mountain) if there was a monthly fee to pay where you get all the cards to play a format that was just base set through kobolds and catacombs, I would do that. That's the golden age to me anyway.

[@MonkeyJazz75]

The fact that Blizzard released Mercenaries with even the slightest hope of it being successful proves just how delusional and directionless they are when it comes to designing new, original, and monetarily viable ways to play the game.

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

I disagree. This is a very good concept with a lot of potential, but it was completely unfinished. We received an early demo version. I can assume that the developers had too little time to complete the ideas, but Blizzard management insisted on the release.

[@Gods-Soldier]

80% of the games I get when I try to play are against bots and it's always the same decks I play against. This is the problem I see with the game.

[@john0harker]

I agree with alot of what was said Personally, I do agree with the fact that standard has taken hearthstone hostage. Like Magic the gathering, where they have a rotating standard set, hearthstone has put itself on the top of a mountain and has to remain perfectly balanced or they will fall. Unlike magic however, they don't have other game modes that are easy to access. An example being, commander for magic, a format that allows pretty much any card from any generation, and only needing one of them (Rarely more than one) to be needed to play. They sell commander decks while still feeding the standard players with packs of newer and newer sets. Hearthstone, however, only seems to force you down a singular path when they sell packs and decks. Either play this deck in this format, or buy these packs for this one. I recall there was an attempt to sell premade decks for each class, but the decks had such low power level, that they became non excisttant Personally, I believe the proper way to make the game live again, is to sell decks of each class that top legend play for both standard and wild, each month (Or every other). That way, players can pick and choose how they enjoy playing, with a deck that has seen legend, and give them hope to climb the ladder while also backfilling their collection with cards in case they want to build new decks with newer strategies.

[@fdk5920]

If there is a sub mode, it will affect the revenue in a Positive way, simply because more ppl will join this train instead of the current situation where it is simply expensive.

[@darthfishis]

Are you sure that players would have payed more if battlegrounds wasn't around? I do remember when it was launched and i had thought that player count was on a steady drop but would the remaining players have played more standard or would they have gone to other games, (TFT, autochess or other auto battlers) Love your work guys :D please keep it up

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

I think yes. Even a few percent of players who would regularly pre-order instead of playing Battlegrounds would bring Blizzard more money. But in the long run, the advent of Battlegrounds has its benefits. The mode adds variety, increases the audience and also increases engagement. All that remains is to find a way to make it bring money. TFT succeeded in this a few months ago.

[@basara1979]

Suggestion : Implementing a Tournament Mode in the game, with a low entry cost (please not brawliseum) with "decent" rewards : cosmetics, packs, etc. etc (indeed with a balance) If it use standard cards, it won't canibalize the current monetisation.

[@keithjames1879]

I just wish player health had been buffed as the power level creeped up. Taking 30+ damage in a single turn is very common now.

[@LFanimes333]

That’s why you only play battlegrounds. Like, seriously. I recon this game would have been long dead had BGs not released in such a clutch time.

[@nicodemous52]

I have to say a big fat no to the subscription model idea. I played a bit of WoW at the end of Vanilla, and I have never come back since. I've wanted to. I really enjoyed my time with it. But, I'm not paying a monthly fee for a game. I simply won't do it again. I promise that's a bigger barrier for many than you realize.

[@barbos1507]

If players could trade cards with each other it would solve the problem of high cost entry. For what its worth, boosters should cost 1/3 of the current price, since have no agency over your purchase.

[@rodolforafael91]

I'm sad about the price of everything in Hearthstone here in Brazil right now. Before, they had a, let's say, correct policy regarding the pattern here, our currency simply could not be converted into dollars to formulate a final price for the items, as Brazil is not a first world country, more than 90% of the people are lower class. But now, they are practically converting the "Real" currency into the "Dollar", and here, the dollar is five times more expensive in our currency (5 Reais for 1 Dollar) everything is more than twice as expensive... Packages, Expansions, Skins.. I'm really very sad about this. Before, I was used to buy expansions and almost every pack release, skins and etc, but now I can't do it anymore. Again, they are doing it in a wrong way to my country! I hope Microsoft could change this case to a normal state again.

[@LaRegicidio]

New cool modes would be: Boss Mode - You choose 1 out of 3 bosses from ALL solo adventures and play Arena against other player and their bosses. Get a bonus after every match like in Duels. (3 cards + Bonus-Card) All-Star-Battle - Choose a class and play against a player. Use your COMPLETE collection as deck.

[@andrewgrow5711]

twist failed for the simplest reason they put cards together that weren't designed to be in the same format at the same time they weren't designed for it they weren't balanced for it so to make it work would take alot of rebalancing and card maintenance which is obviously resources they were never going to invest in the format longterm it was doomed from the moment it was conceived add to that the rapidly growing power creep of cards the past few years and nobody seems to understand that you can't do that and maintain the gameplay you can't take chess and replace all the pawns with queens... it just becomes a shitty version of chess

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

I agree! Moreover, new cards and buffs made things even worse. But why create something that is doomed to fail from the start? Is this an imitation of development? Deceptive expansion of diversity? Is the twist format created just to try to sell Caverns Of Time packs? The developers are not fools, but I'm not sure I fully understand their logic.

[@majormonochrome8529]

Its always a bummer when I remember that a certain level of greed is required to keep companies running. Problem is, every single one of them goes way above and beyond what's needed to keep a company profitable.

[@johnj4471]

Twist was supposed to be like tavern brawl where there were monthly variations in deckbuilding. The first season no neutrals was reasonable. Now it’s just classic all over again. Battlegrounds breaks your argument as that was and is a success.

[@Sela1]

Im a medical doctor and was planning to spend 100$ from my first paycheck to buy the biggest Rhastakan rumble bundle in Hearthstone. When I saw that for buying the biggest 100$ bundle, I would only get around 55% of the expansoon and a hero/cardback, I've decided to never buy anythint again from them. The pricepoint is insane.....

[@MrBnnashton]

I thought this argument was well thought out. At some point we have to believe it is a purposeful choice not to promote or provide incentives for new modes. Only a predatory new mode like Mercs could be a “success” because it could extract more from the playerbase than standard.

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

At least that's the impression I got. Based on the experience of other modes and formats, developers cannot make the same mistakes all the time, which means these are not mistakes, but a system that pursues a specific goal.

[@Flan_Of_Hate]

I'm a new player. I got 11% on achievements and I'm level 39. Hope that helps!

[@MrSpikebomb5]

If you dont play for ~3 months, you get a standard ready deck to choose that can at least get u to gold. They should make this a thing for everyone every new expansion. MTGA gives u a couple starter decks every rotation 1/yr

[@Vodhr]

I am getting annoyed that they keep saying "How could the Developers think this was going to work?", or how "Why didn't the Developers consider the high cost barrier of entery "... Seriously? You think the developers had any say in how to design the monetization to not suck as much money as humanly possible?

[@lokijantzen8940]

I think looking at it like "it being hostage to Standard" isn't quite right. Yes, the monetization of Standard is prioritized, but that is not a problem; it is key. For reference you should analyze the changes to Magic the Gathering over the last 7 years. They made changes to how they sell their product, how players get rewarded, and what their target audience is. In brought it a lot of new people, disenfranchised old players, and made them lots of money in the short term. The more time passes they more they are setting themselves up for collapse. The goal was simple: People play lots of formats (especially Commander) other than Standard, how do they monetize them and make more money? They wanted everyone to buy their new expensive products and make more money, while still making money off the old Standard model. Wizards of the Coast made several changes that seemingly increased profits, but damaged the existing economic structure. * They added new booster types at higher price points, each targeting different types of players. > Nobody wanted the original booster type any more. They blamed consumers for not wanting it, even though they shorted game stores on supply and drafters had to awkwardly use the newer expensive boosters. People got less interested in drafting and the game got more expensive. In the short term people spent more, in the long term, they had less players. (Eventually they decided to merge these boosters back into fewer types -- but now it costs more). * They changed the way competitive players get fame and rewards and access to events. They began prioritizing people who were already known, but weirdly also prioritized people who were known for non-magic things (especially streamers). > Existing competitive players found the new system confusing and nearly impossible to climb. Many competitive players stopped trying to work for something unattainable and stopped buying product. New players were pulled in from other places. Again, in the short term people spent more, in the long term, they had less players. * They added sets designed to target specific players and specific formats. Both for reprints, but also for new cards. > Existing players who played old formats but didn't want to spend money stopped playing. New players bought those sets to compete, but were still short on older cards that were not available. Again, in the short term people spent more, in the long term, they had less players. (The majority of Casual/Commander players buy whatever arbitrary product per cycle and it doesn't really affect them - but many of them don't spend money at all). * They massively pushed the power level of cards in each new set release in order to incentivize people to buy product to compete. > See the notes above. Those who like stability left and newer players bought product. Older cards are still hard to get, the formats are all warped and lack diversity. More money in the short term, less players in the long term. * And more > Most decision seem to have the same results: the target audience gets a new product (existing or new players), lots of it gets bought, but each format seems to get harder to play. Value and incentives are both low. Money is made, but the existing player base doesn't want to spend more money. So they repeat the cycle targeting new players more and more. The irony of course being that Standard already was a good entry point for new players, and a great place to pull existing players back in with juicy (if infrequent) reprints. It also means new players have cards to trade to old players. Here is the truth: prioritizing Standard means supporting all formats. When you prioritize Standard you have a clear method for ALL players on how to get new cards: buy the newest set. Since each set was designed to have cards that fit into all formats, and for each type of player, it meant everyone had a reason to buy it. People want to see new cards, so its good for competitive players that seek an audience. It's also good for new players that only need to worry about the new (and smaller) card pool, which is readily available. The low adoption rate for older formats is good because those players who don't want to spend lots of money will settle for spending a little to get the few new things they need. Additionally, their comfort and familiarity with the older formats remains a skillset they can utilize. Since this is no longer true, and individual sets are made for each type of player: people will only buy what they need and revenue is split up. This makes it easier to see what people want but means that the less profitable sets get support dropped: they will remove support, have less players, and begin to make less money over time. (They did it with the Core set once, because it was always the least profitable set. They noted the effects and brought it back. They dropped it again when transitioning to their new model; what a stupid mistake.) The ultimate thing that makes prioritizing all players into a single set: trading / there are always cards you want and cards someone else wants. You will generally always get either something you want or something of value. In sets designed for a precise rather than broad audience, meeting that criteria is much harder. The value of cards goes down, even if prices go up. In a weird way, everyone both has what they want and yet not enough value. Individual cards are cheap, but they're harder to get. There are less players who want to play, so there's less reason to buy. I will say there is a notable difference for Hearthstone where you don't trade with players... but it doesn't matter because dust is actually a really good analogue. Even in real life you don't get full value from trades. You buy cards, get a bunch of stuff you want (everyone always does), then you trade (or dust) the rest and fill in the blanks. Everyone can do this through one model. Everyone gets what they want. If you break this simple feature, you break the whole economy of your game.

[@N3mdraz]

The biggest issue is that spending 80 euros only gives people to play 1-2 full decks with the legendaries they really need. The cost is to high of the game.

[@MadGamerRus]

For me, the high cost of the rare gamemodes was the motivation to enter them, not standard. Because by the end of the day, I will have more random and variety in gameplay and a chance to earn more gold from unexperienced players. This worked for DUELS perfectly, but it was probably the last competitive alternative that was not abandoned completely...

[@arturkujac3814]

Blizzard have extremely primitive aggressive monetize strategy. You want to make mobile mode? Ok, but you can't expect it'll earn money if the mode is not fun. And why it's not fun? Because of the grinding, which was so big, ppl just leave it. They don't see any sense in playing it or spend money on it. And honestly even the ones who pay in HS don't feel good with it. Example: You buy the highest cost bundle before new expansion. You're hyped, because of new cards, new meta, everything new. Youre happy, can't wait to start. You paid, you have huge amount of packs. And while opening, you open another pack, and another, and after opening 80 packs, all is left is feeling of being cheated by someone. Iritation. Because you paid so much money, and you don't even have half of new legends. You want to do it with reason? Give buyers for the same price whole new bundle. In my opinion a lot more ppl would think about buying it.

[@deviltrigger02]

Hearthstone can just take reference to master duel/ duel links where you can use rental deck build by official specifically for the event itselves which rotates as time goes during events, while let the meta become diverse.

[@Cuestrupaster]

It will still take a lot for Microsoft even start to make changes in the Blizzard games, probably they'll only start it next year, we'll only see effects after april, and only on the main games, like Diablo, WoW and Overwatch, and only after that Hearthstone will start to see any difference... so still a long time...

[@kyotheman69]

i pray that Marvel Snap doesn't do the same mistake, its only year old, but we only have one new game mode and i have mix feeling about it, hope they add new stuff soon and keep it unlike Hearthstone when dev's don't want push it, which is terrible you going just bleed out older players and not gain new ones.

[@denispavlov1996]

Unlimited greed is what broke hearthstone. Paying each expansion about 600€ to play for just a couple months, to spent the same money in the blink of an eye.

[@wojciechlewandowski5277]

Personally, I played until. so far only in the Wild format, because it was the only one that allowed me to use all the cards I had collected over the years. Recently, however, I switched to Standard due to the too repetitive gameplay in Wild (a large number of repeated "on turn 5 opponent destroys you" decks). To my surprise, most of the duels were with bots that couldn't even be reported. From time to time, I also return to solo adventures that are the most valuable to me. This is where you could use many of the custom moves that were later introduced in other modes. You didn't touch on the topic of adventures, and this is where I see Blizzard's greatest opportunity. More than once, I've seen comments from users who missed Dungeon Run or something like that (rewards track, ability to create custom decks, new heroes, special powers, etc.)

[@yuriserigne5524]

those bots are official blizzard bots. their name is usually two words fused in titlecase and they play very badly. they are there to decrease the waiting time for a match and to give new/bad players (or players with fun decks but low win rate) some kind of success.

[@wojciechlewandowski5277]

@@yuriserigne5524 This is interesting! I tried Dane's technique on them (playing cards that make them guess what I chose) and they countered it brilliantly!

[@thepineappleyempireofsuper9612]

If I may, I'm not sure I agree with the conclusion that Hearthstone will avoid new ways to play in the future, at least not completely. If studying game design has taught me anything, it's that a lot of changes/features are dual purpose. I cannot speak for blizzard, but a semi-common way for Wizards of the Coast to test more weird ideas is to use "Un"-sets, sets with cards not legal in tournaments, that wouldn't work for one reason or another in a standard set. Essentially, it works as a way to gauge players response to much more tentative designs without affecting the more popular formats. It wouldn't be a stretch to suggest that these formats could have served a similar dual function. Duels in particular likely help with the development of future start of game and lingering effects.

[@RoTenken]

Sure would've helped with SloSneaKrow back in the day.

[@liamwhite3735]

I’d pay if they added a few extra special backgrounds with more shit to click while I’m waiting for my enemy to rope me every game😂

[@mikesurber673]

I have really enjoyed when they make the repeatable solo adventures. If they would make more of these I’m sure they would see more profit.

[@prnk.sulfur322]

They need to add prizes to the battlegrounds like cards for the standard game, or add a new mode, where you play with other players and enter a dungeon to take cards, non-packaged cards.

[@RIFADOR001]

Thinking about the instant profit is just greedy. It is also important the stability. Mercenaries got a lot of money when it was just released (I guess). But it died. So at the end the profit from that game was low. It would be better medium profit in a game with long life. So I would worry more about the life of the game than about the short term profit.

[@Bob_Bobinson]

to be fair this seems to be less about short term profit and more about not overshadowing hearthstone's main long term profit source

[@Ace1derDaDon]

Ive been playing Heartstone since it came out and other than standard, Duels is my favorite mode. I have several suggestions on how to fix Heartstones problems. 1. Make it possible to buy a characters full selection of cards (meaning old, new it doesnt matter) You should be able to one click purchase EVERY PREIST CARD. Also if you do not have what ever that costs you should be able to "rent" or pay a subscription to have full access to EVERY card of a particular class for a set amount of time. There should also be in game ways of doing these things like winning 12 duels matches, or reaching top 1k legend in standard. But this will help increase playable and profit in ALL GAME MODES!

[@redeye117]

Ah yes i remember Battlegrounds. It was such a massive hit that quite alot people stop playing regular game and just play Battlegrounds.

[@Love2Zooom]

I wanted to quit like 4 years ago, but I know if i quit I wouldn’t ever play it again because I would waaay behind the curve due to the monetization. I have all of the cards I want for all of the modes, but only play standard and wild. I haven’t touched BG except for events that require it because they added the BG battle pass. They removed the BG preorder 4 spots, and moved it to the BG battle pass. I always preorder, so it was a like a slap in the face. Hearthstone is a good game that I have been playing since beta. Sure is expensive.

[@SuperZelda1712]

I still think the biggest issue with this game was and still is the dust system. It’s punishing, it’s unfair and duplicate rewards are embarrassingly low. I’m so serious when I say so many of the games problems would be fixed if I could just dust a legendary and get an actual full dust refund. It would significantly help wild, twist, and duels, as crafting cards to try decks in these or any modes, wouldn’t feel like such an awful waste of resources. We want to try your game modes blizzard!!!

[@N3mdraz]

Agreed, 1/4 dust return isn't helping the game. Half dust refund would solve it. The biggest issue imo is spending 80 euros only gives you 1-2 full decks with the legendaries you want.

[@sleepl3ss451]

How about a bump in Arena pls? It's the oldest surviving alt mode and still enjoys spikes in playtime as evidenced in the graph presented.

[@philippsemlinger2220]

I wanna do a serious proposal and I'll shortly introduce my player type, so you can understand my way of thinking: I exclusively play eternal non-rotating formats in Magic the Gathering and Hearthstone and normally just 1 or 2 decks in each game. I play Hearthstone since Un-Goro exclusively the Wild Format and since Barrens exclusively Reno Mage in the Wild Format. For anyone wondering whether my approach is viable, I normally end up in upper Diamond or Legend each season I decide to actively play. I think Blizzard's best course of action would be to promote, balance and design sets exclusively for the Wild Fomat, since there must be a lot of players out there, who like myself want to have the high power experience and see a game they like pushed to its limits and full power. I'll explain Magic's Format structure, which proves my point to a good extent: Standard, last 2 years, cost ~200 - 500 $ for a competitive deck Pioneer, last like 5-7 years?, cost ~200 - 600 $ for a competitive deck Modern, last 19 years, cost ~1k $ for a competitive deck Legacy, until 93 (beginning) with about 100 cards banned, ~2k - 6k $ for most competitive decks Vintage, until 93 all cards allowed, ~60k $ for most competitive decks Magic's by far most played format is Modern, which is an analogue to Wild. Legacy and Vintage have these extremely high price tags because Magic did a huge economic fuck-up ("The reserved list") in their early years. Modern thrives because a lot of Magic players want to buy into a deck they like once, uograde it gradually as new cards are released and have the ability to show up to a tournament with it anytime they decide to do so. Instead of trying to let Modern and all older formats "slowly die out" like Blizzard does for Wild, Magic decided to release annual "Masters Sets", which don't get released into Standard. In the beginning these were just reprint sets for older, less available and too expensive cards. This wouldn't make any sense for HS, since any Legendary will always cost the same. In recent years they decided to actively design new cards for these Masters Sets, which are by all means very pushed and able to contest in the high powered Formats like Modern, Legacy and Vintage. They're able to sell these packs for twice or thrice the prices they'd sell Standard packs for. I agree easier accessabilty to Wild (or Twist) with rental models is also a great strategy to have people try out older more expensive formats. I'd pay 50 $ any day to have access to all Wild or Twist cards for a limited amount of time like 2 or 3 Months. Implement this as an once per Account feature or limited time offer annually recurring and you'd generate a lot of players, who'd want to play their pet decks all year around.

[@Schwabenteurer]

I haven't spent a dime on hearthstone. If the price would be something like 15€ get all cards for one expansion (=60€ per year or 5 pet month)I would immediately buy it. But spending heaps of cash and not getting all cards? Lacking still the bizarre and fun cards (mostly epics) for decks without mainstream appeal/power level? And the older decks have to decrease in value by time. Lets say 10% per expansion released. After 3 years they are free. This would boost wild and twist immensely. And imeven i would consider stocking up my collection with thr missing cards.

[@Shakounet02]

what’s said at 8:30 is wrong, all the br are f2p and are still doing well by selling only cosmetics

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

Firstly, Battle Royales have a huge audience, which means much more profit. Secondly, in these games, cosmetics are an element of “posturing”. Don't forget also that these games have different audiences. Games like Hearthstone are hardly played by children or teenagers. And most importantly, in the card game it is almost impossible to create spectacular cosmetics. An animated JPG picture cannot be incredible.

[@macnailer]

Maybe they could again produce adventures. I loved the experience. Would definitely spend money on it. Even with a monthly fee I would pay to have access to all play modes.

[@feralast7027]

I stopped playing once I got tired of having to fork out 80 bucks not including mini decks every 2 months or so. That’s ridiculous especially because those cards will eventually become redundant

[@lyudmiltsekov8557]

Oh God Mercenaries.... I love the mode, I still play it but this is in spite of what Blizzard is doing, not because of it.

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

Please don't tell anyone, but I'm still playing Mercenaries. This is a very cool concept that needs rethinking.

[@Filer169]

Hope is in corporate people stop gathering all the wealth the game is making, to buy all their yachts etc and give the proper pay to developers etc, I literally can't stand listening too all that "efficiency", "business model" etc, it's all literally GREED, games can be made out of passion, not just to make money, introducing predatory systems, making more and more broken cards to FORCE players to spend money on cards, everyone defending that type of behaviour saying all that garbage like "its a company, of course they want to make the most amount of money" is just a corporat that seem to not understand that all these CEOs and shareholders are literal billionares that do not care about people, if they have fun or not, they just want people to pay

[@abrahamovicovski]

Everything has an expiration date. Hearthstone is no exception. The game will die out sooner or later.

[@bassemandere]

I played lot of battlegrounds, it was lot of fun i bought the pass for gold... gold i earned in ranked mode, but then they removed the buy with gold option and wanted to force me to pay for full battlegrounds, it was my last day and i never returned after that. (and yes i used the credit card on new cards at every release so i was supporting the game, just not twice) for me battlegrounds was my burnout place, when i really needed a little breake from standard. its pure greed that destroys a game in my eyes.

[@znaqfv]

Why they cannot just add 1 old expansion (like GvG) yearly to standard? Everyone would be satisfied.

[@alexspromotion]

What about Dota, as far as I remember the only payment you may do there is cosmetics but it is still profitable isn’t it?

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

I don’t know for sure, since I only have data from the mobile market, but Wild Rift from Riot Games shows unimpressive results in the world (the game earns about 2 times more than Hearthstone, although it has a much larger audience), while at the same time the game in China has a huge monthly profit.

[@samlynch6896]

More cards is not the wrong strategy , it’s a card game.

[@dredoctor8271]

I only play arena and battlegrounds. As a F2P player I have accumulated over 750 unopened pack and 11k gold over the years. I have no intrest in opening the packs, there is no reason too.

[@benb.8170]

Hostage as hell. Played since beta but only log in a few times a year for the last 5 years or so. Game could be so much more.😢

[@grumpykitten4890]

Twist is a dream for some a nightmare for others.

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

And that's sad, because this is potentially one of the best ways to play.

[@dopplegaming4289]

@@HearthstoneMathematics let's be real for a minute twist is mirage and a ressource sink like mercenaries does in his time. Wild is cesspool. Like it or not Standard remain king of constructed format cause the balance is manageable.

[@justincase5002]

I clicked this video because I hate the game and wanted to know if there's a reason why. But I don't care enough to listen to artificial soulless voices.

[@emanuelbandrabur5338]

$10 subscription is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I would quit the game if they implement such a thing (been playing since closed beta)

[@cllandestine5603]

Re: Battlegrounds. I am honestly starting to think the Devs are deliberately tanking Battlegrounds. The new game mode is aggravating.

[@Elastas]

I stopped playing and paying for blizzard after the blitzchung debacle. Your informative by the numbers video aside, they only have themselves to blame for any dwindling interest or player retention with the slew of in house issues. As a tcg player in general, I already knew the moment standard and wild became a thing, that the monetization was going to ramp up on players who like to keep up to any current format. The haves and have nots or f2p grinders/p2p vs f2p/casuals. If you let up you can't keep up. If you're not invested how can you get a foot in on the ladder?

[@IGniTo100]

Hearthstone is a very fun and satisfying game. I love the card designs and animations, but having to spend 50-100 dollars and still not have a single competitive deck is absurd.

[@wesso6736]

I love this channel, they always deliver such high quality material since a lot of time ago.

[@123bamboom]

Havent played hearthstone in years came back for twist (cause yogg) dusted every deck i had then spent 60$ on bundle im sure when this rotates out ill probably stop playing this game again

[@lefteriszabou]

I think they know the way to do it (the time before so much players left) but they want to earn money without spending enough !! I play HS since Beta almost every day , I spend money on that game because I like card games since I played MTG from 1998 .. but I still stay to HS because it reminds me wow (since I don’t have time to play) but they are not so many players like me , So they just need to spend more money and time to focus on Better cards on Standard Their failure comes also with so much nerfs and buffs they make … tho players spend time and money to craft specific decks they feel disappointed… Blizzard please help HS to stay alive !!

[@Jabalsal]

Only hope is Microsoft and gamepass

[@thomasblake8504]

Hearth... what ? Ho right the game who sells you digital cards that will become irrelevant wihtin a year for 50€ a pop.

[@mr.chimichanga6947]

I think you are generally correct but economically speaking higher than necessary prices are (as you acknowledged with twist) inherently prohibitive. Lowering prices makes the product available to more people, thus bringing in larger profits like Walmart or Costco pricing model. HS prices as if it is a physical card game by making everything in the shop exorbitantly expensive. Like you say the pricing model needs to be revolutionized. I think the player experience would be much better if they lower the cost of bundles, increased how many cards come in a pack, and focus on creating many more signatures and monetizing those

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

You are comparing physical goods that cannot be obtained for free with virtual services for which purchases are not obligatory. It is logical to assume that a reduction in price will lead to an increase in purchases. This is true. But will this bring more profit for the company? I tested different pricing options in numerous surveys. According to my research, the current cost of packs, cosmetics and pre-orders is almost ideal in terms of getting the maximum benefit. If you reduce the cost by 2 times, the number of people willing to make a purchase will not increase proportionally. At best, an additional 15-20% of players will want to make a purchase, which means this approach will lead to Blizzard losing money.

[@mr.chimichanga6947]

@@HearthstoneMathematics it’s the physical stores we’re just an example but it’s important to remember that the overwhelming majority of goods are not obligatory purchases. You’re looking at it from the perspective that all things would be equal except the price but I doubt that would be the case. I think a decent contributor to the health of hearthstone is the barrier to entry even to standard. It can be very demoralizing to be new to the game with almost no cards and see that you need to spend $50-80 just to get the cards for the current set let alone previous ones that are still seeing play. With an overall cheaper price structure with an emphasis on signature cards (still are rare as they are now) that can also be bought directly, I think that alone would retain many more new players and incentivize current players to spend much more than they currently do. They would make less money initially but it would a much healthier long term strategy

[@QueenGaming-lu1vr]

Why won't old cards work anymore? Couldn't you just build a deck with those cards in it and it will work? I still play CubeLock in 2023.

[@PZMKSD]

The biggest problem is that they allowed people to disenchant their cards for other cards at a lower value and basically everybody does that and now only 10% of the population of Hearthstone players actually has all their cards

[@TheSilvershadow200]

Way less than 10%.

[@greablood1072]

Yay, I specifically looked for an echo chamber to NOT want to go back to this mess of a game

[@lokijam]

i wouldn’t pay 10 cents for twist

[@tohruchungus5445]

For me twist is an excuse to update and refresh the wild gameplay and I absolutely love it for that, cuz I only play wild.

[@tbestialhuntress8237]

Probably a lot players are like me. Don't care about anything except Standard. Only BG are interesting enough next to standard.

[@billd7120]

F standard. If you are Free2Play Wild is the way to go. I don't know how people get convinced to throw their money away crafting cards for standard every few weeks when decks stay relevant in Wild for many months, for some cases years.

[@poppanoxiana6186]

i only play arena and as a ftp i only play 2 each 7 days so make it cheaper and is still beter than mtg or yugioh

[@sebas88R]

The game was really fun back in the day..I know this game is a money grab but if you do your daily quest you can have a decent build but what kill the game its they remove old expansion from ranked so you have to spend so much money too stay update, and because they add so much expansion that the peoples who love the game and dont have that money to invest just cant keep up.. Blizzard have change their mentality over the years and that why i just stop playing and buying their game. I was addicted to the game i spend a lot of money in this game and when in one or 2 years i lost all the expansions in ranked , i was like no way im gonna spend again that amount of money for a game

[@sathrielsatanson666]

I generally agree but... you guys are confusing developers with the execs that are running the company. Developers have little to say about monetisation. The state of HS today is mainly on the shoulders of the execs who decide where the development time is being spent and how the game is monetised.

[@ilbestgiocatore6523]

they should give all the cards for free and monetize something else, that's the only way I could come back to this game