Shunting Practice, 17 second shunt, Good Enough Proa (E5)

I found some old footage of me practicing shunting on my proa. I'm getting pretty happy with this. I can shunt in 17 seconds, and my proa doesn't use any expensive parts except a few blocks and jam cleats (that I had from other boats)
If you are like me, and like the analyze proa videos in obsessive detail, and are disappointed that too many people edit out the shunt... well! here is the video for you!

[@ktorn1]

No matter the craft, one can only appreciate a master craftsperson at work. Good luck!

[@dominictarrsailing]

thanks!

[@SeaJapan]

A look at how you put the pro together would be great. Really love the bamboo and low tech. Really enjoyed the ease and simplicity. Thanks for the video, really struck a chord with me.

[@dominictarrsailing]

Thank you! I also made several other videos about this boat: kzbin.info/aero/PLT7Uycq16-Y9B_EwBqt4k1U4P4iK_vXiv If you have any questions more please post a comment ;)

[@SeaJapan]

@@dominictarrsailing I didn't check :/ will enjoy. cheers

[@chrispalmer1255]

Learning so much from your videos. Getting stoked to build something!

[@b.l.a.c.k-shiva]

I have design ideas. You are helping me develop them, arm chair style 😭 lol. But thanks! 🙏🏽📿 Peace and Health

[@oj1jo]

nice demo and can be inspiring to many. I like it a lot.

[@dominictarrsailing]

Thanks a lot!

[@x73.]

👍👍👍

[@ml-spb]

Best

[@hobocyclist]

The best bit is when he does it in 17 sec

[@zackariasthepirate]

I enjoyed your analytical approach. Such a unique sailing vessel that is so subtle. Fine tuned can be real fun I bet. What are the sizes of your Main hull and Ama?

[@dominictarrsailing]

it's all dictated by the sizes of the plywood I found. 4.8m long, minus a little bit for the scarf. ama is 2.4, 0.2 wide equilateral V. Bigger ama would be better, this one can't support my weight. main hull is about 0.45 or 0.5 wide? sides the same. There is a 2.4 long flat section on the waka also about 0.2 wide. I would have made the flat bit on the bottom bigger but I didn't have any more plywood. (originally built this boat as a poor student, with scavanged wood, in 2005, decked it over recently. Lack of bouyancy meant it also lacked freeboard, you see the akas hit the waves in the other video. Here you see I've raised them with some blocks.

[@zackariasthepirate]

@@dominictarrsailing The ama displacement is more crucial on the smaller proas. I've found that a longer ama is better than a deeper one. The deeper ama seemed to want to become the main hull and my proa sailed better with the main hull windward of the ama. I had to reverse the sail which worked. Im building a little asymmetrical 3.3 meter.. It has a good amount of flat width on the bottom so it might have enough displacement. I think im going with an ama equal to the main hull length, that is as light weight as possible.

[@dominictarrsailing]

​@@zackariasthepirate hmm interesting. oh I found your video on it. Hmm, you have quite an unusually short deep ama. On a pacific proa, when you are just sailing the ama is lifting a bit (even if it's still in the water) so it doesn't need to push as much water out of the way, but a small deep one would loose drag slower. Some have a daggerboard on the ama, which I might think would behave similar so I dunno hmm do you have a video of the long ama?

[@zackariasthepirate]

@@dominictarrsailing Long ama is up next on my build agenda. It will go to the smaller asymmetrical hull im currently building. I guess if the amym hull is too small I can use the long ama for the bigger one I have made already.

[@lesp315]

Now, let see it on the open ocean with waves, chop and 30 knots wind.

[@dominictarrsailing]

You might like my strong wind advisory video! (Although I don't shunt in it, sorry) Shunting in heavy conditions isn't really a problem at all. Because no matter how big the waves, the proa happily sits beam on. You can take your time sorting out the shunt. Unlike tacking a cat, you don't need momentum to carry you through. Actually the most challenging situation on a proa is a bay with high sides and gusts from funny directions!

[@dominictarrsailing]

You might like my strong wind advisory video! (Although I don't shunt in it, sorry) Shunting in heavy conditions isn't really a problem at all. Because no matter how big the waves, the proa happily sits beam on. You can take your time sorting out the shunt. Unlike tacking a cat, you don't need momentum to carry you through. Actually the most challenging situation on a proa is a bay with high sides and gusts from funny directions!

[@bobhauser3833]

Very informative video on shunting a more traditional Proa. An thoughts on "schooner rig" with 2 mast where no moving the mast is needed?

[@dominictarrsailing]

Yes I have a lot of thoughts on that. If it's a proa, with a traditional style rig, the masts should move! because gotta move CE to the other end! that means big complicated rudder x2. Jzero has 2x jibs, and rudders. Mbuli has unstayed schooner and rudders kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZ6xZ2eqntyerLs (I've sailed on this one, 10/10 amazing, it actually has brakes! with 2 on board we shunted up a small river moored boats either side didn't hit anything! shunted better than a mono hull tacks!) for a schooner crab claw, without moving masts, Rael tried that kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4ewl5uMfZeXeM0 and hated it. I havn't seen any trad crabclaw shunter without moving masts. There are tackers like Hokulea kzbin.info/www/bejne/mHfVo4xpd8RsiJY though plus this is just more elegant kzbin.info/www/bejne/jp7IaJyrjM2ba5o and it looses that with stationary masts

[@bobhauser3833]

@@dominictarrsailing Thanks Mbuli was the one that looked good. A little less complicated without the wing masts.

[@dominictarrsailing]

the mubli that I sailed on was just two unstayed circular wood masts, reinforced with some carbon sleves because they builder deemed them not stiff enough without it

[@technopirate5050]

Hey bro nice vids im really keen to build one of these proas with a couple mates i really like the mashall isl style proa have you got any advice or references plans rigging information etc to share cheers from marahau

[@dominictarrsailing]

There is the Gary Dierking book www.amazon.com/Building-Outrigger-Sailing-Canoes-Construction/dp/0071487913 and the proa sailing and construction facebook group. facebook.com/groups/proasailingandconstruction but my favorite resource is the videos of still-sailing pacific canoes, I made a playlist: kzbin.info/aero/PLT7Uycq16-Y94hHi4Puz-et9L43fGZV_l (if this isn't every video on youtube, let me know!)

[@keernhaslem1845]

I hope it’s going well. Last year, I followed the same book to build mine and look forward to warmer weather, when I can get out and apply Dominic’s advice on sailing

[@alfreddaniels3817]

Thank you for showing this 👍👍 very interesting rig with so few lines and low stresses. What’s your experience on different courses? Can you sail a close reach? Can you sail before the wind ?

[@dominictarrsailing]

This rig works *best* to windward (that is, forward of the beam) you can steer just by shifting weight forwards and back, and sheeting in or out. To sail downwind you use the steering oar, maybe you can sail down a bit using weight shift, if you are going fast enough to bring the apparent wind forward. The apparent wind is often quite far forward. Looking at the ribbon am usually sailing up wind, need to look at he waves/landmarks to see what direction relative to the true wind!

[@alfreddaniels3817]

@@dominictarrsailing thank you. And what about the stay? Is there only one?

[@dominictarrsailing]

​@@alfreddaniels3817 on my boat there are 3. One to the outrigger, then one to each end of the main hull. One time I capsized to 90 and it floated on the mast+yard, which are bamboo and bouyant. My stays were enough to make it not fall over. On some proa if you get caught aback the rig falls over. This might be okay if you live on an atol but I live in a hilly place and the risk of surprise gusts is high. There are a lot of variations throughout the pacific, some indeed only have one stay. I made a playlist of every pacific sailing canoe I could find: kzbin.info/aero/PLT7Uycq16-Y94hHi4Puz-et9L43fGZV_l

[@alfreddaniels3817]

@@dominictarrsailing thank you, very interesting. Great that you really build one and sailed it. On a larger boat what do you guess is there a limit in what size of this rigging is still manageable?

[@dominictarrsailing]

here is one built in the 70s that was 76 foot long, with schooner rig: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jp7IaJyrjM2ba5o big crew through!

[@wailinburnin]

Hello Dominic - please tell me, are you sailing upwind in this series of shunts without need for a rudder or steering oar? There’s a racing class catamaran called a “Patin” in Catalonia in Spain that is rudderless. It looks like that’s what you are doing, so when you sheet in, she’s coming right up as far as she’ll point with maybe a bit of body weight movement?

[@dominictarrsailing]

correct, yes I'm steering with sail balance and weight shift. but sheeting in actually causes it to turn down! quite unlike the mainsail on a bermudian, but remember that the yard is right at the bow and the boom extends back from there. on this boat I could sail beam reach or above using balance. on my new proa I can even sail downwind! (although it can be a bit more tricky getting it to turn down) the big difference is that I have a much better mast cant control on the new boat, which moves the sail area quite a bit forward, which turns you down. these are the ways to turn down: sheet in, mast to ww, weight back, leeboard back, partially brail. doing the opposite turns you up. each of those has a limited range in which it's effective and the boat goes best with the right balance. (for example, mast a bit to ww, so you don't need to over sheet) mast tilt is coarse, sheet is fine. have leeboard center for beating, back half way for beam reach. to turn down it needs a bit of leeboard but not too much until you are way down. with a bigger crabclaw the area shifts back and you need to compensate with the other controls. stronger wind also changes things, so you need practice

[@wailinburnin]

@@dominictarrsailing thank you, the best Feng Shui is a reef anchorage with the beach an easy reach in a good sailing dinghy!

[@alexeybotkov]

So does it fall under junk rig category? I never knew how they operate those setups, since you can't tack the sail over to the other side of the mast like you do with a sloop. Really cool to see it in action!

[@dominictarrsailing]

totally different to a junk! I've never actually sailed on a junk, but have done a lot of reading, and spoken to a couple of junk sailors. on a junk it just swings on the mast, on the good tack the sail is to windward of the mast, and on the bad tack it's the leeward. it's slightly less efficient on the bad tack but most junk sailors care more about ease of use. there are lug sails like that also, but also "dipping lugs" that do change sides.

[@leaveonlywake]

@@dominictarrsailing You got the "bad" / good tack descriptions backward :) - on "bad" tack sail is to windward of spar, and so sits upon it. I should note also that the 'good / bad' descriptors are not proven accurate, many junk sailors report their vessels performing as well as or even better, on the 'bad tack'. That certainly defies expectation, but is true nonetheless. :) Then there are the junk sails with "jiblets"... :D lol This is what I'm considering for my 25' monohull. I think that to see a GPS track of your shunting practice would be very interesting! I tried it - sort of - myself with a longboard windsurfer. Instead of tacking and bringing the board around, I flipped the sail and stood on the nose of the board so that the fin was popped up and held free of the water, then sailed using the edge of board to keep it pointed upwind as much as possible. As an experiment, it worked. :) Fair winds!

[@dominictarrsailing]

I havn't actually sailed on a junk rig, but I did meet one who had sailed enginless all the way from UK to NZ, and he told me that sail on the windward side was the good tack. My understanding is that aerodynamically, smooth flow on the underside of the wing/foil is more important, so that's why that's the the better tack. Not really sure how much "better" it's expected to be, and I havn't measured it...

[@fugu5162]

Im watching from southern california. Is there a "smallest" size for a 1 man proa? 8ft? 9ft? (Annual registration "fee" is based on length 😢)

[@dominictarrsailing]

In my opinion, the advantage of a proa is that it can be built longer with the same amount material as a shorter catamaran, making it both faster and more seaworthy. So I think it doesn't really make sense to have a short one. My proa in this video is 4.8m, 16 feet, two sheets of ply, I think this is a good length. My newer proa is 4.2m, 14 feet, kzbin.info/www/bejne/aGLClKumqqetmNE and I'm very happy with it. Here is one that's 9 feet, I think kzbin.info/www/bejne/j2mmiICQqN2dqrM and this one is 10 www.multihull.de/proa/p5/p3.htm it sucks that you have to fill out a form but it will take many years before the registration fee becomes the big cost, compared to building and maintaining the boat.

[@fugu5162]

@@dominictarrsailing wow, thank you for your time sir

[@dominictarrsailing]

@@fugu5162 no problem! I love talking proas!

[@richdecibels]

this looks rad. I get a bit lost with the terminology. I wonder if it would be interesting to either make a glossary video, or include one explanation per video. like, today we're crossing the straight and I will explain what a beam reach is.

[@dominictarrsailing]

Thanks rich! ...I appreciate that you enjoy my content, but this is for a very niche type of boat nerd. If you need to know something like what a beam reach is, The Internet can probably help you with that. I'm someone else has probably already done a good job of that in another video... I'm trying to make stuff that I'm uniquely positioned to make

[@dominictarrsailing]

hmm, maybe next time someone comes sailing I'll just get them to hold the camera while I explain everything...

[@richdecibels]

@@dominictarrsailing of course I can find this information elsewhere but I want to hear you explain it 😭

[@keernhaslem1845]

@@richdecibelshis explanations are the joy of these videos. When it’s been a while I miss them. A beam reach has the wind blowing perpendicular to the boat. This position allows Dominic to manage the sail, and once he gets it set it angles itself and he starts going.