Side Slips VS Forward Slips and an old school drift exercise to learn the flying skills required

Try THIS exercise and it will help you develop a feel for side slips and forward slips. A little old school drill that's been used for years to help pilots with these cross coordination skills.
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[@epretorious]

I always remember the difference between Forward & Side Slips this way: Forward Slip for falling. Side Slip for Center Line. HTH!

[@hefeibao]

Not sure which is more magical - him doing this in the flare or the empty traffic pattern at this airfield.

[@robgannon60]

Nice. Learned to fly at an airport with a 30 foot wide runway and a constant crosswind. Side slips were essential to getting in there.

[@MasterCarguy44-pk2dq]

You mean forward slips.

[@robgannon60]

@@MasterCarguy44-pk2dq I do not.

[@noelletakesthesky3977]

​@@robgannon60 I currently fly at a very narrow field. Side slips are so essential that they’re basically just a normal landing. Also for a glide slope of 4.89 degrees. Forward slips aren’t used nearly as often. It’s definitely the sides that are used so often.

[@queuerayzy]

Great exercise to recommend, but the front-only camera (while demonstrating aileron input nicely) isn't really showing the subtlety of the rudder action. I think it would benefit any students to also have a visual representation of yoke and rudder inputs as you are doing the exercise. Either a set of sensors for a digital recreation, or maybe a couple of pic-in-pic cameras.

[@TheFinerPoints]

Great idea! Thx

[@UnusualAttitudes]

@@TheFinerPoints Moar GoProzzzzzz, Jason! Hahahaha

[@Dan007UT]

I was about to suggest the same!

[@Tonyashani2]

I wanted to ask the same thing. I would like to see the rudder inputs, because a lot of videos of any do not show you their rudder inputs.

[@Peacewind152]

Side slips have been my bane. My CFI explained it well, but I still was not understanding the difference between crabbing and side slipping. Then she had me follow her on the controls for an approach. I don't know what it was... maybe the fact that she was actually controlling the aircraft so I didn't have to worry about actually flying the thing, but the next approach around it all suddenly clicked. My CFI's glee that I frigging got it was so rewarding.

[@bruce2357]

I started flying in gliders and was taught slips by my instructor primarily as a skill to use in case the dive brakes failed, the glider also had no flaps. When I took my private check ride the last thing the examiner did to me was simulate an engine failure on downwind and told me I couldn't use flaps. I'm not sure I would have passed if I wasn't so familiar with using slips to get down. Runway was only 3,000' long and surrounded by houses so I stayed a little high because I didn't want to come up short and I knew I could lose the altitude.

[@TheFinerPoints]

Great story. Great experience 🙌

[@CaptMoo]

Beautiful!My instructor years ago didn't know the difference.

[@GustavoRodrigues]

Probably the most important technique to master crosswind landings.

[@TheRedbeardpirate]

I was just thinking that the side slip sounds alot like crosswind landing

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

@@TheRedbeardpirate See my post above.. It is a kind of slip too..

[@btomlinson9988]

I'm going to practice this. Had a 14kt crosswind the other night and really had trouble lining it up. This is great timing/advice. Thanks!

[@aviatortrucker6285]

Works especially well in a tail dragger airplane. It is kind of a scary maneuver because while you’re low to the ground and you feel very uncoordinated thinking that the moment, if you stall, you’re going to spin. Without changing the pitch, airspeed will indicate lower than you normally are because of the slipstream going across the pitot tube at an angle. But as soon as you come out of the slip, your indicated airspeed will increase. The reaction is to lower the nose while in the slip and then when you straighten up, you’ll find yourself about 15 kts too fast.

[@blancolirio]

Excellent demo and explanation of the Finer Points between these 2 maneuvers Jason! I always got the terms mixed up, just called ‘em all sideslips.... Nothing finer than a turning forward slip from downwind in an old taildragger without flaps all the way to final and transition to a side slip for the crosswind landing....if I got my terminology correct. ;-) Juan. ( lets do a collab on this!)

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

Turning Forward Slips from downwind leg look fantastic. From outside and from inside too. We had Beech 18's and all kind of singles and twins doing them for just fun at the tropical airport I learned them in 1969. Now you dont see them often enough.

[@KHP3333]

Juan. What do you think about starting a forward slip with full rudder in a Luscombe especially?

[@melvinhathorn4988]

The clearest explanation of slips I have heard

[@VictoryAviation]

Just flew again yesterday. I still can’t even master regular landings after having done over 120. Then you make this black magic look like a piece of cake 😂 I’ll definitely be working on this drill during solo practice time! What a great tool to have in the hip pocket.

[@skippingguy]

I bet it's because you need more of these kinds of exercises. I taught for 21 years; not flying, but teaching is teaching. Some who are in a position to teach just do a lot of observing. Since I started learning to fly and trying to learn from online videos, I see the same thing--some just say things like, "land straighter," or "get on the centre line." Well, that's stating the obvious, and usually no help to the student. Real teachers, like this guy, say, "Watch. I'll show you how to land straighter," or "Practice this maneuvre so you can improve getting right on centre line." Best I've seen.

[@VictoryAviation]

@@skippingguy Absolutely agree. I’ve actually completed my Instrument rating at this point and am working on my commercial. My landings have come a long way. The one maneuver that helped a bunch was banging out slow flight. Throwing that sucker in landing configuration and keeping it in slow flight for an extended period of time made all the difference in the world. On my own I plan on doing some more of these maneuvers to keep getting better and better. I almost always choose the crosswind runways to land with on purpose. If I can crank out crosswind landings all day, when it’s lined up it’s even easier.

[@aengberg1]

4:08 - I'm sorry. That's just beautiful. Made me feel a bit emotional.

[@TheFinerPoints]

🙏🏻🙌

[@michaeldent4985]

Very timely. My CFI and I were just working on this yesterday. I had a tendency to use more rudder and less aileron to straighten myself out after rounding out instead of the opposite. But this led to the crosswind still moving me off of centerline as I flared and touched down. Now I'm working to use more aileron and just a touch of rudder. Love the channel!

[@chucklemasters6433]

the best way to teach this is to have them hold the airplane over the centerline while flying down the runway with the right amount of pitch and power to keep a level pitch attitude for good runway visibility. they learn even more with a nice little xwind thrown in! also dutch rolls an excellent old school maneuver to quickly teach aileron/rudder coordination. when i do tailwheel endorsements this is the first maneuver i teach. they are not allowed to even attempt a touchdown until they can fly a 5000 foot runway using ailerons for holding the centerline with the correct amount of opposite rudder to keep the fuselage aligned with the runway in changing wind conditions as well as staying in ground effect with pitch/power inputs.

[@RizzAzka]

Oh man how I wish I have an instructor like you, so much knowledge to absorb

[@TheFinerPoints]

You can! Check out the Skills section of our Ground School app! It’s “me in a box” getgroundschool.com

[@deanmiles3505]

Great video, A friend of mine introduced me to the forward slip in a Kit Fox. He kicked the rudder to the floor, and I was looking out the side door at the ground. What a feeling when it's done without any warning. I was impressed...I'm going to have to try the side slip. Thank you Be safe, Take care

[@karhukivi]

For crosswind approaches, sideslips work best with high-wing aircraft while crabbing works best for low-wing aircraft. Forward slipping is for emergencies when you have to get into a small field but are overshooting. If it isn't an emergency you can always go-around. Gliders also use forward slip as they don't get a second chance in a similar situation. Unless you have rudder pedals, most of this doesn't work on home flight simulators.

[@dale116dot7]

Forward slip can even be done on a 767 when it is out of fuel, no flaps, and coming in a bit hot and a bit high, though for the passengers it probably feels a bit odd, and the controls feel a bit heavy since the RAT also becomes less efficient during the manoeuvre. On my flight sim, I found that adding the rudder pedals made my landings much easier.

[@luv2drum19]

I didn’t really learn how to sideslip until training for CFI. This video describes and shows it perfectly!

[@kimberlywentworth9160]

I better get this down pat before I get my private pilot. That way

[@WolfPilot]

Cool video Jason! I will definitely give give this a try! Thanks for this awesome CFI moment!

[@Noircogi]

That runway in Byron is one of the best places around here for crosswind practice!

[@bplabs]

great demo!

[@NGC008]

Excellent! Thanks for sharing 👍👍👍

[@zacharybonugli2827]

Very well done, thanks for the simple and clear demo/explanation

[@Parr4theCourse]

Great and "SIMPLE" explanation of the differences/similarities between forward-slip and side-slip and "application" for both!

[@carolion48]

Great videos Jason.thanks so much

[@freepilot7732]

Great idea. Thanks

[@abbieamavi]

I love slips! I feel like they have helped improve my power off 180s, I like pairing the 2 together

[@RGCastro7]

Thank you, Jason!

[@guido.demedici]

Great demo

[@derekroulston1977]

Best instruction on the internet. I love trying these skills to improve now that I have completed my PPL

[@Kamukix]

Fantastic demonstration and explanation 👍👍

[@cq7415]

This is good and explained well. Thanks for sharing.

[@vincentchueng1270]

OMG! Thank you for the video, this is the best video for both forward and side slip! Thank you very much Jason!

[@andrewwhite8833]

I needed this today on my 2nd solo. Landed centerline on the first one, left on the 2nd then right on the last landing.

[@tdkeyes1]

My CFI was drilling me on the two slips and I really had forgotten what I had read. The next week I told him that I wanted to start practicing them. We intentionally came in high on final and performed my first really good forward slip. Burned off the altitude without gaining airspeed, straightened out for the round out and set it down. I was pumped. Next to work on the side slips!

[@danielalbrecht8875]

Many thanks for explaining this technique 😎😎😎.

[@standel8347]

This looks so cool i will try this out with my flight instructor

[@michaelrivera6989]

My instructor essential taught me the same thing by just saying "use aleron for sideways motion and rudder to keep the nose pointed down the runway". If you think of it this way, you'll just automatically cross control without thinking about it.

[@jmitterii2]

Yeah, same. Pronounced side slip to landing would be x wind where you need to keep the one wing dipped into the wind side. It's all about using all available controls.

[@bikefreakstl]

Great Video Sir, Love It

[@jeremykemp3782]

Excellent excellent video thanks

[@Docinaplane]

I fly a Cherokee Arrow, but I learned to fly tail wheel planes, and I use slips all the time with the Arrow. They are very useful. Thank you!

[@08cad]

Earned my PPL in a Citabria, small grass field, old school instructor, and forward slips were a requirement to learn/use! Also gave me a true sense of how to “fly” the plane! 😁

[@richardfuller2326]

Excellent explanation! Learn this first then cross wind becomes much easier. Wished all instructors taught this way!

[@eduedu7986]

awesome job explaining the difference between the two slips!!

[@TheFinerPoints]

🙏🏻🙌

[@hawk8263]

Very cool.

[@Aviatorpeck1957]

Thank you

[@GUCR44]

Good one!

[@lechstryzewski9350]

LOVE watching you do these every time. I have been applying this method in the sim quite a bit, even doing a low approach for the entire length of the runway. The sim is much more squirrelly than the real aircraft, obviously ..... but, ... I have always said - "if you can get the procedure down in the sim then you can certainly do it live". Thanks Jason !!

[@JohnVanderbeck]

Any tips for doing these in the sim? The biggest problem I find is rudder inputs always seem to sensitive in the sim.

[@lechstryzewski9350]

@@JohnVanderbeck I have tried and tried to "dial in" the rudder sensitivity but can never really find the sweet spot - or - get it anywhere near how the real aircraft responds. Same goes with braking .... it's either way too much or hardly any at all. I'm curious too, if anybody else has ideas about sensitivity settings.

[@juanpennisi1202]

Awesome!!

[@brianparrott7233]

Awesome.

[@flygy481]

Thx for the video. Totally missed the jam session last night, not happy! Have a good Sunday!

[@TheFinerPoints]

It’s up on IGTV! Was fun to hangout 🙌

[@flygy481]

@@TheFinerPoints I just turned my frown upside down! Thx so much! Will check it out when I get home from the airport 😉 Have a good one, Jason

[@UnusualAttitudes]

Kind of funny- I use this technique to land the Bellanca Super Viking every time. That tall vertical stabilizer makes this a VERY effective technique to line that aircraft up on centerline. Great video!

[@stevespra1]

Terms that have always been a bit confusing because in a forward slip you present the side of the fuselage to the relative wind and fly a bit sideways while in a side slip you keep the nose pointed forward... Thanks for the help.

[@TheFinerPoints]

Yeah I get that for sure - the names refer to the flight path

[@mytech6779]

I try to practice a bit of side slip on every landing. Figuring out that the side drift skill is the same regardless of crosswind was a game changer for me, the only variation being the amount of input. Just wish any one of my 6 instructors could have given this to me early in training rather than me figuring from youtube and careful physics consideration after 100 hours of frustration.

[@whiskeysk]

this is brilliant! thanks a lot!

[@TheFinerPoints]

You're very welcome!

[@jackiewindham8199]

Enjoyed the video, my J3 will drop like an elevator in a forward slip. Who needs flaps?

[@homertalk]

Nice!

[@tywheeler7131]

I think this is one of your best films Jason! I didn't know you're at Nevada County. I represented the Air Force when Chuck Yeager's plane put up. Have fun!

[@hollyfoxThe]

My instructor showed me a side slip to get me on the center line for my first assisted landing. It was pretty cool.

[@KetsaKunta]

I didn't even know this existed but I'm glad I learned

[@scobun]

That's my home airport! My favorite KZbin channel at C83!

[@SiebAir]

Good instruction! I always struggled to understand the difference between forward and sideslip...

[@holyteejful]

Nice flying ! I know Byron when I see it

[@rickairs551]

Greetings from The Netherlands , btw nice cap 👍

[@goneflying140]

I use this technique in crosswind landings. You can keep the ane centered and keep the nose pointed straight down the runway. Many times I land on one tire first on the side I am pulling the ailerons to. Left crosswind = land on left main tire first.

[@iesikhaty]

My flight review 2 months ago was in good crosswind; as I drifted laterally, my cfi called "track the centreline" and I immediately remembered this exercise. Managed to get back over while in the round out and just barely cross it. The trick remains mastering the timing of when to take out the slip but leave enough to fight the crosswind. This is a fantastic exercise to boost confidence in maintaining control during the landing phase. This is why I remain your patreon supporter - I owe you for the instruction lol.

[@brianparrott7233]

Solid

[@user-uc9ij5ub1q]

Man thanks

[@fillywinks]

Learning this technique from an earlier tfp video saved me *a lot* of grief

[@_denis.kim_]

We definitely need to have your app on Android as well.

[@dennisnbrown]

Great vid

[@TheFinerPoints]

Thank you!

[@liquidintegrity]

You should have shown the rudder pedals work maybe attach a underseat camera next time. Nice video!

[@SVSky]

Love side slips, if I overshoot centerline just a little bit I prefer to side slip than just to turn the plane.

[@stevengarner4596]

Wish your app was available for Android. Another great video Jason!

[@davidbsac]

Have you ever written an app for android? If you have written for android and iOS then you will know why there’s no android app. It’s a hot mess to create apps for android.

[@logicturtle9838]

I'm not a pilot but this exercise made me stupendously good at landings in all wind conditions in x-plane. One thing I noticed while trying to go side-to-side repeatedly in simulation is that you have to start rolling out of the bank during the zig before you reach the target line, but you have to maintain the rudder pressure until you reach the bank angle for the return zag due to adverse yaw. Then slowly transition to opposite rudder while maintaining the bank angle. So while the slip is normally opposite rudder and aileron, changing the direction of the slip requires a bit of coordinated rudder and aileron during that transition. I'd be interested to know how much, if any, of this applies to the real world.

[@lpainter100]

Looks like Pacheco pass area? Nice information video.

[@gorgly123]

Byron airport I believe.

[@holyteejful]

@@gorgly123 100% Byron

[@KHP3333]

Your comment for a forward slip I might disagree. You said use full rudder and add aileron to keep directional control. I fly a Luscombe. I think the rudder is too effective to do it that way. I would be afraid of the terrible skid before getting enough aileron in. I have taught the same drift control for crosswind landings. Very good. A plane with less rudder authority you may get away with full rudder to start a forward slip. Let me know what you think please.

[@jchinik9786]

I though the note was interesting about not using full flaps in a lower-powered plane so you have reduced form-drag. I have a first-year (1968) 177 Cardinal with the O-320 so it pretty low powered. I feel like 30 deg full flaps should only be used if I'm coming into a shorter field and I'm 100% committed to the landing. Otherwise if I put in full flaps and have to do a go-around, after full power application the plane doesn't really accelerate much at all immediately. When I go to 20 deg flaps the plane wants to descend a little so of course, have to hold it off the runway and it starts to accelerate then. With a little more speed I go to 10 deg flaps and can climb at Vx but that whole process takes quite a horizontal distance so it's possible I could hit trees at the end of the runway. I think the 20 deg flaps approach significantly reduces the horizontal distance to build speed back and initate climb. Thoughts on this?

[@fredericklarsen3076]

From what I remember, the POH in a 172 says that slips with full flaps are not recommended.

[@joshmartin8856]

@@fredericklarsen3076 It also says that on the flaps switch

[@MasterCarguy44-pk2dq]

I pretty sure you got it backwards Jas. Side slip is with planes side turned towards runway and forward is keeping nose center lined. Side slip becase your going sideways at 30-40° down rnwy, forward because your pretty much pointed stright down the numbers.

[@mikebeuselinck6138]

Can you please do a follow-up demo of the forward slip? Maybe at higher altitude and on approach? Only time I remember seeing you do one was on that base to final at Airventure.

[@TheFinerPoints]

Sure! There is a whole lesson on it in our Ground School app - (there is a free trial) www.learnthefinerpoints.com/ground-school Good memory!

[@GooberPilot]

Hey Jason, what video is that in your intro where you’re doing a walkaround?

[@BoomVang]

I love forward slips and hoped with them in the title, more would be said than just a full rudder type thing. In fact you might not be able to max a rudder or not even have a tail. You may have canard, spoilerons, or whatever so lets define it in principle. All slips promote a different compass heading than path of motion through the air. A side slip keeps compass heading forward with a diagonal path of motion. A forward slip keeps a forward path of motion with a diagonal compass heading. It should be called a downward slip because that is the effect you are trying to introduce. Although I could imagine it used with backstick to only slow a no-spoiler sailplane in unusual circumstances.

[@norbert.kiszka]

6:00 70 knots - quite low as for low pass and both experimenting with side-slips. I see IAS varies from 80 knots to about 65 knots. I know, land close to rwy is pretty flat, but on ground mostly its easier to flip over nose. Let me be honest, I know C172 only from X-Plane, but its pretty much the same physics and aerodynamics. Anyway, thanks for sharing and happy landings!

[@jimallen8186]

Any concerns for touching down with side loads on your gear if side slipping for lineup fixes in your flare?

[@adamguymon7096]

Can you show an example and explain what the pilots did exactly step by step during the Gently Glider incident and what they did? I know that, that was done in a big jet aircraft and that normally doesn't happen in that type of aircraft but I was just curious what actually had to happen in order for that type of thing to happen in a bigger aircraft than the smaller aircraft or a glider? Can you make a video about that?

[@manordee2291]

Do you have an in Class ground school

[@travelgreg48]

Would it not help to refer to the inputs of aileron and rudder as primary and secondary? For example, in a forward slip rudder is the primary input and the aileron is the secondary. In the side slip aileron is the primary input and rudder is the secondary. Make sense?

[@theworshiptraveler6709]

Would be great if you used split screen with one cam out the window and one cam pointing at your pedals. Go information though.

[@alejandrogodoy4696]

Tips & Tricks!!! 🌟 🌟 🌟 🌟 🌟

[@TheFinerPoints]

🙌

[@shepheardadi4329]

While doing this exercise what key result would indicate you have mastered the precision?

[@piperdakotaflyr]

On the side slip you say point the ailerons the direction and add rudder. Is it opposite rudder to the ailerons?

[@patheddles4004]

Yep. Cross-control, the opposite of coordinated flight.

[@danielegrinzy5824]

Could you use the exact opposite of what you did? I mean, to move to the left, left rudder and right aileron so to keep wings level. Why not? Nice video!

[@joshmartin8856]

Left rudder will turn your nose left. Adding a bit of right aileron will keep you from drifting left. This is a forward slip used to lose altitude on purpose. You are presenting more fuselage, creating drag, and losing lift. Not something you want to do a few feet of the ground, especially having your landing gear pointing the wrong way! The idea is to use aileron to turn towards where you want to go, and use a little bit of rudder to not let your nose turn, but to "side-step" (slip) so to speak while keeping your gear parallel with the runway.

[@danielegrinzy5824]

@@joshmartin8856 awesome, make sense😉🤙🏼

[@greggperry5502]

What is your RPM power setting while you are drilling side slips zig zagging down the runway? You are flying a 172 in this video, correct?

[@dtsh4451]

So when you bank to the left, you hit the right rudder? I keep on digging and watching the video, trying to get the rudder selection😌

[@karhukivi]

In a sideslip to correct for crosswind, yes - otherwise you will start turning towards the banked wing. The plane should still be pointing straight to the runway and not turning left. A forward slip is to lose height rapidly without speeding up, usually to get into a small field that you are overshooting.

[@hinchliffe44]

Does it matter if you have full flaps?

[@jonnimart1]

At the 90 degree point in my RV one day, I noticed I was slightly high. I added a touch of rudder and a smidge of opposite aileron which turned out to be exactly the control input to counteract the slight drift at touch down and allowed me. At what point did the side slip become the misnamed forward slip...?

[@jmitterii2]

Really a forward slip is the purpose that really makes it defined as something else. Forward slips are used to increase rate of descent while not increasing air speed.... too high or tower gives short approach instructions or other reasons you want or need to dump altitude quickly, but don't want to increase airspeed... a forward slip can be used. I love them. Sideslip is for directional control usually to counter act the requirement to have wing low to the side the x wind is coming from on final. Using opposite rudder allows the nose from going into a bank in that direction; and you can then control the nose with rudder while banking as much as needed to keep wing low to the side the x wind is coming from. And he's demonstrating how you can use the side slip for other reasons other than x wind landings... get blown off by a gust down center line. Which happens. Fairly common. Or whatever reason you're not all that lined up. The amount of opposite rudder will be very little to more depending on the amount of opposite bank and wind or other factors. Where a forward slip is full rudder deflection opposite to bank to dump that altitude... very little do with any directional control. Because x controls cause altitude to fall, adding power is often required. Hence x wind landings using sideslip to landing or eventually going into one from a crab ultimate transition to sideslip on round out generally requires a bit more power than usual. Pitch for airspeed. Power for altitude.

[@madmoneymike5]

Approximately how much power is needed in a Cessna 172 while doing this low approach exercise?

[@philconey11]

I don't know if it's the fact that I have the same amount of hours as the instructors at my school(Which is only about 200), but I'm working on my commercial right now and for some reason the instructors here are extremely uncomfortable with even mild side-slips. I feel like side slips over the runway should be a part of the ACS.We're already training to fly 1kt above stall speed and still climb, descend, and turn. We're already working on spot landings. We're already working on power-off approaches with a fairly strict criteria. Why aren't we working on skills like this that only improve precision and physical skills? Part 141 programs are weird.

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

Those are the kind of Mild Maneuvering CFI's that cannot teach in Canada or most Latin America or Europe either. Spins and EFATO maneuvers taught there scare them. They cannot wait to get a Mild Maneuvering ATP to go and.... Do more Mild Maneuvering in airliners.. And yes.. IFR is Mild Maneuvering too. I used to teach all those 3 kinds of Slips, spins, 4 kinds of EFATO , and aerobatics. I was.. "Too tough" for the faggetti crowd at other side of the airport. Maggots..

[@philconey11]

@@emergencylowmaneuvering7350 Honestly, I don't want to pursue air-carriers. I want to fly bush charters in challenging terrain in high performance aircraft. I want to do aerobatics. I want to instruct students and teach them how to safely take their airplane to the edge of its performance. If I calculate Vref in the plane I fly it's usually between 61-68Kias. But the CFI's want me to fly at 73Kias because "It's the gross weight standard and is the safest". Dude, we're 200lbs below gross weight. We're gonna float more than a hot air balloon in the winter. Like, bro, we're still at 1.3x Vso, chill. We have a good buffer. The field is 2,000 feet long. I'm not coming in with 10Kts of extra speed, and leading my aiming point by 500 feet. I'm coming in so that I touch down firmly immediately after my flare. But that scares the CFI. Timid CFI's drive me nuts almost as much as reckless pilots do.

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

@@philconey11 Right. I was a hard worker Drill Team Cadet when CAP send me to flight school and paid for 15 hours on Piper Colt to solo. English was my third language. I Was just 17 years old and had to use public trans and then hitchhike to go to airport, never had a motorcycle or driven a motor vehicle before. But I soloed at only 10 hours in 1969. Why?? Because I was so used to hard work, it was just another hard thing to do for me. No fear for hard work pays up. Took all my licenses at minimum hours and with FAA inspectors.