Signalling your layout - Getting started with Semaphores

[@lms_steve6693]

Excellent video, remember all, a distant signal cannot stop a train!

[@jeffreysutcliffe1139]

Thanks Dave - I learned a lot through this video. Intend to rad up a bit more on how signalling developed.

[@tonywilliams9600]

Hi Dave, really enjoyed your tutorial, clear and concise...... I believe the decision to change to upper quadrant was made due to linkage failures on three different occasions...this resulted in the lower quadrant signals showing clear when the home signal was suppose to be on stop due to the weight of the semaphore arm or flag. The upper quadrant system gave a default stop in the situation where a linkage failed. Keep the sessions going as they’re a great help to us newbies.

[@HattonsModelRailways]

Thanks Tony and yes, it sounds like you've got it spot on. There was several examples of lower quadrant signals fitted with counterweights and some of these remain in use in South Wales, Devon and Cornwall, but I understand that Upper Quadrant became the BR standard for the reasons you state - Dave

[@simonlowe3766]

A red semaphore signal is called a STOP signal. Its position on the layout determines whether it is functioning as a 'home' signal or a 'starting' signal.

[@johnhenderson5389]

Many thanks for a clear and informative video. Will never do Facebook so good to be able to link into this. Keep em comin !

[@HattonsModelRailways]

Thanks John and don't worry, each video is available on both our KZbin and Facebook pages so you can enjoy them as you prefer.

[@alexmorgan2296]

Excellent video, so clearly explained. Many thanks. Shall look forward to video on wiring them as well. Stay safe.

[@HattonsModelRailways]

Thanks Alex, glad you enjoyed the video.

[@bazza3643]

Dapol semaphore signals work very well. One advantage of a semaphore signal over a colour light signal, is that the position of the signal arm can be viewed from either the front or the rear of the signal. All of my Dapol semaphore signals are wired to work automatically with the passing of a train, or they can be operated manually if required.

[@Phil-oj5nr]

In New Zealand the main lines use a speed signalling system. In some areas there are single line automatic, and double line automatic. In single line automatic, the signals are approach lit. They are powered by batteries which are charged by the mains, but if the mains fails, the batteries take over. I think the voltage is 24v DC. In some areas remote from power supplies the batteries do the job all the time, and the signal maintainer checks the batteries on a regular basis. Most of that system has now been replaced by track warrant, where the driver has a pad and writes out instructions by radio, the signaller has the same pad, so there is no confusion as to which section the driver is authorised to use on the single line. Probably 85 % of main lines in NZ are single track. In the metro areas the signals allow trains to travel over empty sections similar to UK main lines.

[@michaelwoodhams8607]

A very helpful introduction for all-I bet youngsters have also found that very helpful-another good session-thanks. MJWoodhams.

[@HattonsModelRailways]

Thanks Michael, glad you enjoyed the show.

[@joshmartin152]

Really helpful I was just going to not have signals on my railway as I found the whole system confusing but after watching this I am going to add them. Thanks Dave

[@HattonsModelRailways]

Thanks Josh, i'm really glad this has helped you. Don't hesitate to get in touch if we can provide any more advice - Dave

[@josefbuckland]

Yes after you sacrifice a small life's savings worth of cash into it its a tremendous investment. and you have the rest of your life to regret it HA HA HA Signals are my MUST HAVE! Bread & water will be fine as long as I get signals :)

[@EsotericArctos]

@@josefbuckland If you have some maker skills, you can make your own signals pretty cheaply, especially if you want to do lights instead of semaphores. There are a few DIY videos on KZbin. You don't need signals, especially on a small layout, but they do help to make it that bit more realistic, and for some a bit more fun too as it gives that bit more to do :)

[@colwichjunction3366]

You learn something everyday! Great video Dave, looking forward to the colour light signalling 👍 Cheers John B😷

[@HattonsModelRailways]

Thanks John, its available on our channel right now - check it out! - Dave

[@hythekent]

Excellent Dave. Looking forward to seeing the ground light signal video as that’s all i have and I’m not sure where they should be

[@HattonsModelRailways]

Hi, a further video on ground signals, banner repeaters etc is something we're considering so keep an eye out on our channel.

[@andrewross3293]

Excellent presentation. Thank you.

[@richardswiderski4985]

Great video Dave most informative as usual looking forward to the next signal video.Keep safe.👍

[@HattonsModelRailways]

Thanks Richard, its available now on our channel.

[@wimbletrain]

Great tutorial and explanation. Cheers John

[@HattonsModelRailways]

Thanks John, glad you enjoyed the show.

[@alisonlake7534]

Very good video Dave, most interesting, thank you.

[@HattonsModelRailways]

Thanks Alison, glad you enjoyed the video.

[@IamRobotMonkey]

Thanks for this boys and girls. Learnt a great deal!

[@HattonsModelRailways]

Great to hear you enjoyed it, thanks for watching.

[@EsotericArctos]

I don't think we have any Semaphore signals in Australia now, but as far as I remember we had all upper-quadrant semaphores. These days, some states have gone for the single "search light" type signal that can show various aspects via one lens, but most are 3 or 4 aspect light signals still

[@kleedhamhobby]

To use distant signals realistically, you'd need to have a pretty big layout (a lot bigger than mine, for sure). As stated in this video, the distant signal would be at least 1/4 mile ahead of the home signal, often as much as three times that distance. Well, if you do the scale sums, that means that in OO gauge you'd need to place your distant signals at least 17 feet ahead of your home signals. Even in N gauge, your distants would need to be over 8 feet ahead of your homes. So... what do you do? Omit distants altogether, or place them unrealistically close to the homes? Of course, this problem is not really limited to signalling - on almost all model railway layouts, everything is generally too close together, and often too small (e.g. most layouts have nowhere near enough space to realistically model a principle mainline station).

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

A nice introduction to the subject. Lower quadrant signals were used by nearly every railway company. It was only the GWR that never made the switch to upper quadrant. The MR as part of the LMS replaced many ov their lower quadrant signal. The distant signal would be at the braking distance for a train running at line speed. The distant signal would only be cleared if ALL starter signals controlled by that signal box are cleared. Great on line sources for information are www.railsigns.uk and www.signalbox.org. both tell what signals yo use and what they were used for, but the former also covers signals in much greater details than Hattons could ever do especially for the pre-grouping era.

[@HattonsModelRailways]

Thanks Neil for some fantastic links - I'll be checking those out after my shift, thats for sure - Dave

[@NTSCuser]

Coventry used both! The signals to the south of the station were lower quadrant while those to the north were upper quadrant.

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

@@NTSCuser not an unconventional mon situation even today.

[@AdiPullen]

Hi dave This a very well made and thought through video. Clear to all to understand I appreciate the time you took to make this video Keep safe arp

[@HattonsModelRailways]

Thanks Adi, glad you enjoyed the show. Signals can be quite intimidating but once you've got your head around the basics they're easy to figure out - Dave

[@dangrove6562]

If the Distant Signal is clear, it means both the Home Signal and Section Signal is clear in the approaching Station Limits.

[@PaulGalea55]

Good explanation thank you

[@briandunning2974]

Good video. Please would you review the products. I think I want Dapol because I want to work them electronically, but it would be good to hear what is available as you did with the Hornby.

[@HattonsModelRailways]

Thanks Brian, glad you enjoyed the show. The main models available are those featured in the video although there's a few different types, especially when it comes to Dapol's electrotonically controlled signals. The Dapol signals are reliable and easy to install but check out the link to our website for more info.

[@andymacc]

Excellent. Thank You! 👍 Do you think the Dapol motorised ones would be okay to use outdoors if covered with a waterproof sock when not in use

[@stephenpike3147]

Very nicely explained and illustrated thank you. On the solenoid operated ones how noisy are they when tne solenoid operates and how does this noise compare to "point motor" solenoid operation, e.g. PM1s and tortoise motors please? It would be nice to hear them operating on a future video. Thanks Stephen

[@HattonsModelRailways]

The motorised semaphores are operated with a servo motor rather than a solenoid, so are a lot quieter and slower action. I'll add an operating/wiring signals video to our ideas list so keep an eye on our channel - Dave

[@stephenpike3147]

@@HattonsModelRailways Thanks for advising, yes will do.

[@learn_with_gern]

I was wondering if you guys knew much about Backing Signals. Gordon and James tried to explain it the other day but I didn't fully understand.

[@HattonsModelRailways]

I'm pretty sure they're only applicable to layouts based on the Island of Sodor but I'll check with local sources....- Dave

[@theenigmaticgamer]

Excellent video Dave and very informative. I have never really understood how semaphore signals worked until now. I'm certainly going to include them on the layout I'm currently planning. One question though. Is there a standard location for the signal post in relation to the track? In other words does the signal post stand on the left or the right of the track as the train approaches on a single line track? I'm looking forward to the video on wiring signals. I'll have to,put some on my "wish list " with you! Stay well. Keith

[@HattonsModelRailways]

Hi Keith, thanks for watching. As a rule, signals are generally on the left hand side of the track as most locos are left-hand drive in the UK. This also matches double-track sections where signals are on the left. Some signals are located on the right hand side or directly above the track on single line sections, purely to help with visibility, but usually they'd be on the left.

[@phil36310]

The whole of Europe was and is upper quadrant. Commercial Signaling on a layout is way too expensive. DIY is a must here !

[@LJbradbury]

Really helpful, thanks

[@alanrobertson9790]

I think there is a gap in the market for signals like Hornby but GWR. Ratio do cheapish GWR but you have to make them. Dapol do GWR but are expensive.

[@HattonsModelRailways]

Hi Alan, it may be something we see in the future but as you mention there's some great options available now. Feel free to suggest it to our development team at [e-mail]

[@keithg1xfl]

Great Video, Explained a lot, Question:- when did the uk switch from semaphore to coloured lights on the main line?

[@HattonsModelRailways]

Hi Keith, the first colour light signals came into use in the 1930s being installed on higher speed routes as a priority. Some areas of the UK still retain semaphore signalling, with South Wales and South West England being particular hotspots.

[@387FanGatwick]

Wow!

[@kinza3245]

hello im from pakistan we still see these signals in some areas. kindly tell what it means when there is X shape on the signal and when O shape on the signals. i have also seen thoese type of semaphore signals having X and some has O on them. but these signals i usualy saw on big tailway stations or theoes stations whih has workshops too

[@richardclowes6123]

Couldn't help but notice that the signal overhead bar was showing signals pointing upward. That's different to what was been said before. Please explain as now I am confused.

[@carlkirby1227]

I live in Australia will these signals work for me.

[@FredWilbury]

At last I get it 😎👌

[@adiwasitaaziz8247]

What about green over red aspect, sir?

[@jdavis460]

Not quite correct. When you have two stop signals at say a junction if they are at the same height it means both routes are the same track speed if one is lower it means that route is a lower speed. If you had say four stop signals stacked one above the other it means top signal takes you to the furthest route to the left next one down would be the next line to the right of the first and so on. Top to bottom left to right as we used to say. Brian (train driver)

[@jeanmcginlay2363]

Cheapest method!