Simon Sinek on Why the Church is Losing Ground

Simon Sinek on Why the Church is Losing Ground, the Importance of Existential Flex and How Deep, Personal Crisis Spawned Start With Why
Simon Sinek unpacks his back story, including how his grandfather shaped him, how ADHD impacted his leadership and how a deep, personal crisis led to him developing the ideas behind Start With Why. Simon also talks about how existential flex is so important in a post-pandemic world, and why the church keeps losing ground.
Welcome to The Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast, a podcast all about leadership, change, and personal growth. My goal is to help you lead like never before in your church or in your business.
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[@drummerman9274]

‘The Church is...’ starts at 46.51. You’re welcome!

[@elchavez7]

Thank you.... This title is very misleading

[@lifemediauganda4859]

Thank you

[@samcarew]

Thanks for that!!!

[@informedsrthankful2438]

Thank you so much.

[@MoreDanYouKnow]

Thank you

[@calebmays5965]

“I do believe that the solutions we find to the challenges we have when we’re children, become our strengths as adults.” - Simon Sinek Really good quote

[@sovannpen]

Also maladaptive coping and patterns that can cause lots of pain and loneliness.

[@Unknown_User_158]

@@sovannpen I guess it all depends on the environment you grow up in.

[@socksumi]

Yes solutions become strengths. That is not really so profound but he uses many words to state the obvious.

[@eliasblum753]

Yes. Absolutely.

[@BirdFlier]

To be honest, it's quite funny to watch Simon talk about church as a business. Because that's exactly the problem! They got settled and forget the calling to go out and make disciples. That way the church dies. Self-centeredness is always the cause of shrinkage. Sharing is mostly the cause for growth. I'd think Jesus was a great disruptor so to speak, but his followers couldn't grasp it, until later when the Holy Spirit was there... Most prophets were the same. Most weren't ready for them. They were the visionairs while most were just complacent. Most people don't want to change. It's hard. So the church dies eventually if God doesn't get involved. Churches without God are businesses of self-righteous people.

[@davidv6746]

Well said!

[@AbdielSalas]

Its a Business not for money but for people.

[@juliansihite1289]

@@AbdielSalas business is actually about people, not about money

[@carlosreira413]

Another KZbin must see. Simon articulates so many things previously deemed intangible. His expansive vision of "existential flexibility" and how it relates to spreading the Gospel is worth sticking around to the end.

[@gregorykuhn5551]

I have been so looking forward to this interview since the moment you shared it was upcoming...and it did not disappoint. This was is probably one of my favorite interviews that you have done to date and am saving it so I can watch it again. Love the discussion on the finite and infinite game and how we keep playing as if the infinite game is finite! WOW!!! I also want to say - one of the things I appreciate about your style - helping leaders lead like never before - is because you make leaders "think" in a way that they have not thought before. Asking the why is so so so important! Thank you.

[@robertschemmel4910]

"Why" unites us. "What and how" divides us. Very inspiring interview!

[@TimJLee]

This entire conversation was really good....but the final question/response on existential flexibility was pure gold for me as a pastor of a church looking at the future in this new world. (starts at about 45:08) Thank you for this one!

[@RichardChappell1]

From an organizational standpoint, particularly a consumer organization, it's right on. But I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding of "the Church" here and what it is for. The Church is in reality nothing more than the collection of faithful adherents. It's the people that make up the Church. The Church doesn't have the responsibility to share the Gospel, the members do. Nor is the Church that Sunday meeting. That is a place to come together, have a community and share testimonies and the Spirit with others. Without that regular connection, it's difficult to maintain the testimony and Spirit to maintain faith (not impossible, but difficult). But the most important part of "the Church" is not the regular meeting, but the lives that its members lead, and how they spread the Gospel. The responsiblilty of spreading the Gospel rests solely on the membership. As Simon talks about younger generations and how they function, it's a consumer philosophy. They want to consume - but that's not how faith works. That misunderstanding is why there is a real lack of faith, and younger people are looking for anything meaningful to fill that gap. It's not the Church that is failing, but the membership. First as parents, to inadequately teach our children about faith, and then in our communities by not spreading the Gospel.

[@thedrewwitt]

I love the passion when Carey gets him going!

[@cyrusfontaine2598]

This was really interesting and thought-provoking! Thanks for doing this show!

[@gritsngranola]

THIS WAS ABSOLUTELY WUNDERFUL!!!

[@natashaparry4468]

So insightful and applies to ALL organizations - the last few minutes was especially valuable. Awesome discussion

[@benrigsby2226]

Great Guest Choice!! Thanks!

[@jamesspry3294]

Once again both thought provoking, challenging and inspiring (often simultaneously...) Always a joy to hear positive people encouraging us to be better. Anyone can criticise, but to make us want to improve is a skill sorely needed. Thank You both.

[@marcriver76]

People not losing interest in spirituality, the church is losing it’s relevance….simply brilliant from Simon! Thanks for this great conversation!

[@radahhhh]

Amazing Simon! I do love the last line of yours. You are totally service-minded. Things to learn from you

[@nickrdillard]

Simon worked-up on something is one of the most entertaining and best things. Loved this interview.

[@KimberleyBarkerPhD]

Great conversation and great ideas. Every church leader needs to watch this!

[@alphastronglife]

Simon is always on point. I love the Why vs Just Cause distinction. Def need to clarify my just cause to be able to communicate it more effectively.

[@reginerevera6437]

While listening to various topics, I felt like I was in the forest exploring various flowers and I do have a dream to get to that flower behind Sinek and hear him in person. Salamat!

[@joePARKS]

Absolutely fantastic gentlemen! I love Simon's passion about 35 minutes with the problem of a finite structure. Amazing content - thank you

[@silverocity2546]

The finite versus infinite discussion is important. To me one is not better than the other. Both are important. To me the finite could be seen as the vision of a thing. Which should not change. In business it is making profit. That should not change. But the infinite is the process, methodology of it which can change and is flexible. In Christianity it becomes more complex because the vision of reaching God or attaining oneness with God is finite: unchangeable and common to all religions. The infinite is seen in the methodology. It is flexible in most religions. In Christianity however the methodology is also finite because the one who said he came from God and is God himself says he is the only finite way. But while that is true there may be many infinite way for the main finite one methodology. . For example people do not need to gather in only one place and on only one day of the week.

[@Magazinelady]

This was a wonderful interview. I was thinking about how teachers say there are no dumb questions and you asking a question could help others. In school, it could be hard to ask that question. At work, for Simon to keep asking a question and saying, "I still don't understand." took courage. Yet, after he broke the ice, others said they, too, didn't understand. Simon, that is confidence and courage and it shows how the majority of us put on masks just to get through by looking good. Yet, those employees were supposed to do something with that information. If they didn't understand, they couldn't apply it to their work. You ended up being the genius in the room because you kept pushing until you understood. What a lesson for all of us and you are a good role model.

[@kwall1464]

This was great, thanks!

[@scs216]

The Church loses ground in the World when you can no longer tell the difference between The Church and The World.

[@MynameisVi]

Exactly 💯

[@pratyushchauhan4107]

Thats a win for the church then.

[@limrosemary8536]

with the dire situation in 🇮🇳 , if well off christians do not take extra effort to pray & consider seriously adopting one covid orphan p family ., all talk abt God is baloney

[@peterdamian_7]

@@pratyushchauhan4107 nope, the church has to be moving in opposite direction to the world. The church is the ship and the world the ocean, the ship sails on the ocean, but when the ocean's water gets into it, the ship sinks. The church is the light of the world and by default the world is in darkness. Therefore, if the church ressembles the world, hence the church is failing.

[@Freebyrd7]

Yes different, but balance that with Jesus going to meet the people where they were. He didn't work inside the existing apparatus of Spiritual Life at that time. He removed obstacles to those who genuinely sought the Way the Truth and the Life. We can't be satisfied with being simply different. We have to be different the way Jesus was different.

[@Lionchaser1968]

Outstanding. Such a wealth of information that was inspiring.....Now to take action.

[@Tungchano]

Your why is actually finding your meaningfulness in life! Thanks Simon & Carey for the interview

[@deeperthings37]

Thank you for this Carey and Simon! It would be interesting to have a follow up conversation with a church historian to talk about ways that the "church" institution "flexed" in previous moments of substantial change, industrial revolution, westward expansion, the black death, etc... We have lots to learn from those who went before us.

[@thunter10709]

Great interview! Thanks!

[@MrTheo2410]

Great session!

[@teresabarrett5735]

This was outstanding!

[@tomgncc]

Hi Carey, You got a new subscriber + Your interview with Rick Warren, Dave Furguson and Now Simon Sinek has won me over. I Pastor a church in Cork - Ireland Blessings Tom

[@CareyNieuwhof]

Tom, Welcome! We're so glad to have you!

[@Broldie]

Great conversation!

[@EloyZalukhu]

Thank you so much from Jakarta, Indonesia. I read all books by Simon Sinek and I love all of the books. I am blessed through the books. I share the ideas to all people I have apportunities with. I also quote his ideas in books I personally wrote. Thank you Carrie, I listen to your Podcast everyday....your guests are my gurus...I read all books by Rev Tim Keller and Johm Maxwell and others and listen to Rev Keller sermon on KZbin in the last five years. I thank God for Him. Thank you 1000 times to all of you.

[@riolly]

I'm from Jakarta too. We, church in Indonesia, need to question our self why we come together at sunday gathering. Is it because for the ritual itself or is it because of people and what we believe together?

[@mountainsno]

Ive SO appreciated Simon Sinek's TED talks and interviews. For a Christian... it is easy to understand that our purpose as created beings is to look after the person to our left and right. Scriptures use the race... the infinite game... to challenge us to have trust in our people... to pass the batton onto, to keep in the race, to run a good race. We are indeed made in God's image and are made to multiply, use our gifts to help others, live without fear trusting that God will empower us to leave selfishness behind and build trust and love with our fellow man. With God's grace we can be flexible. God allows us room to grow and learn and reassess our direction. And that doesnt alter our "why". Everything that Simon talks about for me can sit quite comfortably alongside our Creator's plan for humanity. Love, trust, care, together NOT selfishness... Simon absolutely talks biology. And for a Christian... the biology that our loving God created for our joy.

[@spbaumy6390]

Thank you for that interview! Everything was really good. The best thing at the end. I really want to be part of the "netflix" or "iTunes" of the church. Even thou I work at the moment in an protestant church in Germany with a huge apparatus. But I put my hope in the Holy Spirit who moved his church through the centuries... Who wants to join?

[@mayeerahbrits1372]

.... and nobody is saying a thing about the "word" of God.... So sad... 😬

[@ArcticEric]

In yesterday's terminology, he is describing a paradigm shift. Nice new package i.e. a new term, same principles.

[@georgebastenie4134]

I was raised by my grandmother. Also formed an authentic view and attitude

[@1ncpromotions85]

Brilliant Brilliant thankyou

[@TyHamlet]

Very insightful. I very much like Simon’s work. I feel much of what plagues this topic is the equivocation that is “the church” and all that that implies. I think the better term would be the institution of Faith. Though we are called to be faithful there are very real physical challenges that must be navigated if a house of worship is going to continue to exist. I can’t tell you how often leadership pretends to be spiritual or faithful when in reality an existential flex must be made and the real faith would be weathering the metric drop in attendance and giving in order to right the ship in the long run. I have spent my entire adult life trying to bring existential flex to a number of ministries as did my dad for 40 years before me. These next 5 to 10 years are going to be interesting. Boomers pastors all retiring and throwing the keys to no one as they walk out the door. As cultural Christianity melts away, we will see the Holy spirit begin to manifest in the US in ways we only heard about from missionaries in other countries when we were growing up. I have begun to speak in tongues. Was I raised like that? Nope. It just came on me one day when I was in the drive thru at Mc Donald’s. I have had visions and prophetic words too! All in the last 2 years. There is an even bigger wave coming then Covid and the sad truth is not all churches are going to be able drop in. It’s going to get weird, its going to get crazy, and Yahweh will use it all for His glory.

[@robbymorris]

Awesome! Simon thanks for your insight and honesty.

[@CareyNieuwhof]

Such a great interview!

[@GeraldFaulkner]

Really loved the discussion but the title is misleading for the most part. No "real" church talk until near the end. However much can be learned and applied to our thinking as ministry leaders from the entire conversation.

[@Bebang60]

Great insights and perspectives! Very on point! Thank you!

[@estrellaastrologia]

24:32 reminds me of the story in big magic ☺️✨

[@racaciaruth4460]

Hey grumpy Simon. Lol. You are different for sure ❗. Talents and hard work but some no luck but grace, special grace Simon ❤️. Simplify to connect the dots is great. We are all dumb sometimes, just be honest. Beautiful ‼️ 💕 💕.

[@michaelliu7797]

I love Simon’s books, and I respect what he says. Wish I can ask him about what he meant with his view about Church. At any rate, this is my response to his final comment. The Church’s main mission is actually making disciples for Christ, which includes spreading the Gospel, and it mainly is to help one another love like Jesus loves. Love is not always convenient, and it requires personal relationships working toward more and more intimacy. It means to stick with a relationship whether you feel relaxed or difficult. Just think about what the Gospel is - Jesus came to be your substitute, so He may fully bear what you deserve and give to you fully what He deserves. How inconvenient for the infinite God that came to be always finite, so we may always be infinitely loved. Commit yourself to love one another like how Jesus loves you (yes, it includes spreading the Gospel message) is the why and just cause of Church, not just spreading the Gospel.

[@KJ-lb4tj]

My question is, why do you stick to a relationship whether you feel relaxed or difficult? Why would relaxed or difficult be What you base a relationship on? What would be the reasons of sticking to it or not sticking to a relationship? Would you stick to an abusive relationship... Would that be loving the person well? That would be a difficult relationship.

[@wilsafachrin2928]

I think the gospel are mostly well spread but widely misunderstood. What's needed is a discussion, a place to ask questions, a place who will listen and not judge. A safe place. But none of these needs are fulfilled by church, so how can church claim that they represent the greatest love of all? At the end, they just tell different people with different needs to do the same things that work conveniently only for conventional people. Anyone who doesn't or can't follow are outsider. But Jesus never left or exclude or ignore His followers who didn't really "follow" Him. He answered their questions and concerns which at the end lead them back to Him for the right reasons. Most churches failed to replicate that inclusiveness and that safe space. Religions are busy playing God and winning thus unable to relate. While Jesus choose to die just to show how much God wants to relate. That's why so many people become agnostic. The gap is just too wide between Jesus and churches.

[@Magazinelady]

I think Simon was saying that as times change, the church can spread the gospel in ways that it hasn't before. Outside influences changed the music and movie/TV industries; the changes didn't come from within. The church needs to find ways from within to keep up with a changing world.

[@user-jt9hi9zd8n]

That why the holding me hostage I’m not doing the church at 46 - 51 either 🤦🏽‍♀️👏🏽

[@kathrynstiles3509]

The church is too concerned with being comfortable for people.

[@143prettycool]

The people want to look on others fault rather than theirs, so tat they won't find their fault.

[@JasonManners]

@@143prettycool some do but a lot of churches focus on exposing their own sin or faults.

[@elvenblood]

Yea, Church is a tough one to talk about for sure. I understand why it took so long going in circles about other business update news. Simon Sinek could have spent at least 30 mins in church-specific chat. Thanks for the video tho, I've been following Simon around on KZbin, and being a Christian I figured gosh that recommend video looks nice.

[@astondriver]

Preach the word. Christians are called to go out and preach the Gospel, matthew 28. But worshiping remotely and going where it feels good is not church. Church is not about us. It's about God. We are called to come and corporately worship Him. It's not about how we feel or the experience.

[@AngelBien]

Church and community is important

[@justaguywithabible2313]

I don’t have Twitter or FB ... do I need those ? Where do I get involved in the new way of church ?

[@thejohnarnett]

The church isn't there yet. I imagine online communities via apps or something else could happen but it doesn't exist today (though you can have zoom calls with small churches during the pandemic, but meeting in person is still kindof the goal (and thankfully))

[@tonysullivan1603]

Very good conversation, but, wasn’t the last comments contradictory? Yes,we can be diverse in our approach in how we connect, but we still need each other. There’s nothing better than a face to face conversation over a coffee and I can’t do that online. I love using the internet to connect but we still need as Rick Warren said, “A word, a touch and a smile.”

[@dawncolayco9340]

I remember when Netflix wS younger company. A neighbor worked there in Oregon . My parents had no clue they were still into HBO cable stuff. We got them an introductory 5 dollars a month for 6 months . Ore streaming. My stepdad was so skeptical because it still want their credit card number in case they didn’t send back the disk. Now they are addicted and stream.

[@russprothero89]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSS! 🙌

[@e8t788]

I am surprised there is so little discussion of the issues raised with such understatement in "American Grace" by the illustrious Putnam.

[@lamonthale9755]

Glad I listened to this and did not prejudge based on the title which I think is not accurate at all.

[@T-41]

Smart guy!

[@marylamb6063]

I stopped going to church when a deacon I was speaking to almost punched me in the face. I scrambled out of there. The event traumatized me. I was telling him that I didn't know what was happening to me, but looking back my mood was destabilizing. Eventually I developed depression. The deacon told me that no believer gets sick. He screamed at me. I never saw such rage in his face. Then I spoke with a Christian counselor. She told me to command the "spirit of depression" to leave me and never come back. I did that, but I knew there was no spirit of depression. Something was wrong with my body. Eventually, I traced it to foods I was eating. Five different types--milk, eggs, sunflower seeds, turkey, and bananas. As long as I avoided them I was fine. If I ate any of them, I would get depression for 72 hours. 14 years later, I had a sinus infection that required three courses of antibiotics. I knew the depression was over with. I ate the forbidden foods and the depression was gone. So it was bad bacteria that was causing it. I have no intention of going back to church. The trauma I experienced, and the ignorance of what illness is by Christians, was the end for me.

[@Magazinelady]

The church stays away from any type of mental illness. Yet, the church could address the issues that affect so many people. Mary, I am glad that you found a solution to end your depression. In the church that I went to for a season, an associate pastor confessed from the pulpit that he had an addiction to porn. At first, I thought why is he confessing this publicly? A group was established for people with the same addiction. How powerful is that?!

[@user-rd7mu8bp6c]

Hey, I was almost punched by a friend too. He claimed to know be annoited and he manipulated my family to think wrong about me. I questioned him because he kept belittling me for questioning his "spiritual" authority but I saw it was entitlement. Because I called him a liar because he called himself God he came forward and almost hit me. He pointed the finger at me and rebuked me and tried to justify his actions by twisting scripture. Thank God I had my bf next to me so he couldn't lay a finger at me. I learned later that his narcissistic. When I questioned my pastor's preaching not aligning with what the Bible says I was accused of having a critical spirit. I was really hurt because It felt like I had no room to reason and my friend who questioned his teachings told me that he did the same thing to him and learnt that he doesn't encourage questions. I understand how you feel cause I've been there for many years. I was spiritually abused for a long time. They are narcissists they used my vulnerabilities to elevate themselves not help me. I came out that after kwmoning the truth of the Bible through Chris Rosebrough. I was afraid of God and I was afraid to read my Bible because I believe these spiritual leaders claimed to have spiritual encounters. Please listen to Chris Rosebrough who exposes those who are spiritually abusing the congregation. His channel is Fighting for the Faith. He displays the Scripture on screen so you can go through your Bible. I also recommend Melissa Dougherty(ex-new ager and apologist), and Beat By Allen par shares his similar experience in charismatic churches and how he was spiritually abused. I hope you look into it.

[@UrWack007]

Should have started the conversation with asking about the church because everything else that was talked about can be found on Simon's other videos.

[@mackdaddynutjob]

Thanx for the comment, this is good background on him, cuz have only seen his "millennials" video. but now I feel like I've gotten the gist of him, and now might not watch any others

[@riolly]

Simon this time is different.

[@peterrossi3349]

Leaders eat last was so helpful during a intense battle with Christian music industry, how disappointed I was to find how little they understood.

[@johndoe1909]

I really do agree on that wall street breaks economies. And yes. Historically we really where way better to handle that. Thats about all i can agree with....

[@jbsikes6841]

The real church is not losing

[@SamSam-xx6dv]

"real" church?

[@jbsikes6841]

Yep

[@lennicesmith4455]

Preach Simon👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽I’m sending you an offering for this message 💶💶💶

[@limrosemary8536]

tis was done in 2020 & we r not out of the woods

[@oterosocram25]

Simon, my advice, you are a great communicator. I would remove luck out of your vocabulary because with God, there is no luck, it is obvious He gave you that skill and talent to do what you do.

[@donaugustine9748]

Before I even watch this video I must say the TRUTH as to why the church is “falling away” is found in scripture. It’s inevitable if it is WRITTEN.

[@mayeerahbrits1372]

I didn't watch the video either... Lol

[@143prettycool]

Is chruch a place to play politics based whose better.can any body tell about system so that we can atleast understand ourselves. How the society runs.Please help me. I am fed up of trying myself.

[@peggyoban4069]

Felt the same…

[@MonaMarMag]

That actually depends on who understands what Church is , because the truth is that we don"t really know who has what in his or her head . To me personally all people are living Church . Church is not a building is a place in our heart where God lives . To me God is the whole Universe and we are part of it .

[@AbdielSalas]

‘The Church is...’ starts at 46:51. You’re welcome!

[@happycutebox]

👌👍

[@myjunk6309]

the message will be the same, but it's how you tell it. John 3:16

[@PsychoBible]

His rant about church seems to contradict his rant about chasing the stock market. The seeker-sensitive movement has been chasing being relevant for a few decades now. And that strategy may have bolstered their numbers, but it's compromised the integrity of the church by watering down its message and promoting atomization over genuine, in-person community. The purpose of the church is NOT to share the Gospel. The purpose is to make disciples of all peoples. That requires getting the Gospel out there, but also to heal, edify, correct, and equip believers. And this is all for the purpose of proper worship to God. If, in the name of flex or adaptation, we transform church life into something remote and super-customizable, it ceases to be the body God called it to be. Such shifts may help in the short term, but I think the pandemic and the infiltration of progressivism in Christianity are proof of the harm of these tactics. The small churches rooted in tradition and using a prophetic voice I predict will be the survivors of these times.

[@siboniso4420]

And what America has done is focus on leadership rather than Christ. Its focused on growth above holiness. They can spend money on strategies but can't fast and pray and wait on God.

[@stephencanfield]

"It's not your responsibility to go where I am, it's my job to go where you are...so wherever you go I'm probably there." This is the real nugget...make the church ubiquitous and people won't have a choice but to listen. Let's be the squeaky wheel to the community lol.

[@garysweeten5196]

Finite Games vs Infinite Games. Religion is an Infinite Game

[@Thorbua321]

My christian family judge me with that verse in Hebrews 10:24-25 "not forsaking the assembly", as if this one act makes you a better or holier person! Thanks for your enlighting views Simon!

[@mpalmer22]

If Simon is aware of the gospel then he should know that life's only meaning and purpose can be found in God, outside of him we can't make sense of reality because have basis for truth

[@junejuly513]

where God is not? Cover everything with God and then u can see what to do and what exactly are the mistakes. Blessed are those who are purer in heart for they alone can see the truth.

[@jamessheffield4173]

John 21:17 “He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.”

[@heatherjaeggli4719]

Hebrews 10:25 tells us we have to assemble together. No, we can't redefine the assembly to mean whatever we want. Assembly doesn’t mean Zoom. Assembly means physically gathering together.

[@carlosreira413]

"All my energy went into lying, hiding, and faking." Amazing testimony of how God orchestrates silently. Jesus saves, and not necessarily consciously. The values-sharing vs transactional relationship comparison is powerful. "We want to know why."

[@JamesCallahanTheDoOverShow]

_It's astounding how intelligent someone makes themself sound when they know nothing about history, traditions and alternatives, and think they're being dangerous by using simplistic marketing flexes. Astounding. ___

[@CapoHJB]

It’s astounding how unintelligent churches can sound in giving relevant answers to the world’s pressing problems too. We are losing generations of youth and young adults to ideologies that may not present biblical truths but practical solutions to real-life problems, and we may be surprised that in the last day the Lord would require their blood from our hands. I would love to gloss over your comments like I would many others on KZbin, but I am willing to risk receiving nasty replies for pointing out self-soothing comments that excuse us from our failures to reach the world for Christ as our youths turn to the world for answers that the Church should have provided.

[@paullynn8960]

So money!

[@peggyoban4069]

Maybe start with a definition of what “the church” is?

[@stanjz]

Thank you for the video. I'm surprised that Simon knows about Glass Steagall being a marketing guy. The American church is hard-core political right, and it doesn't have a place for the least of these in America. They're great at helping and planting missionaries overseas and helping the destitute outside of America, but not so much inside. There are no excuses inside America( no inflation nor extreme competition for high-paying jobs). No diseases that affect the brain, immune, or metabolism. Make fellowshipping a part of the church service. You can't claim to love other believers if you don't give them your time and attention like Martha gave Jesus in Luke 10:40-42. P.S. Almost everything we argue about in the US comes down to morality and money or the Bible and macroeconomics(not finance/accounting). Could we please pick up the books and study them?

[@martemis]

Of the increase of his government and his peace there is no end.

[@KJ-lb4tj]

Mmm although the analogy about the doctor's office has limitations. Because no doctor knows you or trusts you and you don't know them or trust them and because each doctor is so specialised - I see it over and over - each doctor only treats one part of the whole person. People end up on all manners of medications with multiple diagnoses that the second or third doctor is not considering when they decide their plan of action to treat just the condition they are specialised in to treat. So the colon doctor messes up the heart doctors actions by changing medications and not considering that to dehydrate and do a colonoscopy is potentially dangerous... Etc etc.

[@vanities7374]

Diversity of thoughts, perspectives and ideas is useful to building and developing solutions. Diversity of color of skin, gender, sexual preferences is superfluous. It is also deceptive and potentially racist (or whatever prejudicial grouping you prefer) if you think that varying and mixing groups must create idea and thought diversity. What is now the trendy is choosing women, minorities (for a visual) as long as they think the same as the white elite liberal who created the group.

[@Magazinelady]

I thought Carey meant that as a transplant to the US, you might see opportunities that the US citizen has not seen or taken advantage of. You mentioned diversity and I get that, but I think "new comers" see the US through a different lens than the person who was born here.

[@nurtured-channel2953]

"Theres not one way to share the Gospel " This has been on my mind forever🤔 The Church is still running with the same old model, it doesn't teaches or preaches the Kingdom , it is completely misaligned... I heard Mario Murillo emphasising on the same message today with different words👌. But I have to question if the Church is in the same category of an Industry/ Bussisness.... from there we can get to the root of the problem.

[@joebrowser775]

The problem with the Church is that it was NEVER meant to be an “industry”. Any responsible and diligent Christian knows that Church is a community and has been from the start. It was later twisted into this mold we know nowadays. Read the Gospels and the Apostolic letters and you will find out that the Church never required disciples to “have” to gather in a temple or “have” to do a Sunday service where a worship team sings and after that a “pastor” stands in front of a congregation to preach. The main meetings were in homes where they broke bread and shared their lives in Jesus and lived the gospel for each other. Sure, they still went to a temple as long as they were allowed to by the religious leaders but they were shortly persecuted and no longer allowed to partake on the temple activities. But they were still the Church. Sinek is totally right when he says”where is it written that it has to be done that way?”, and That’s the main question. The Bible doesn’t describe Church gatherings to be even remotely as what we’ve been commonly experiencing it for more than a thousand years now. The way Sinek recommends it to be is much closer to the way it was and was meant to be from the start. The Church need to go back to it’s first love.

[@astondriver]

Clearly I must have misread the NT where the church assembly ekklessia was called to meet together on the first day of the week.

[@joebrowser775]

@@astondriver where did you read that the church was called to assembly “every first day of the week”?

[@annebeck2208]

I was talking with a pastor and questioning how someone could sit thru years and years of bible based preaching and still require everyone in their life to allow them to "win" for them to be happy...Jesus did not come to "win," but to put us back into the game that He wanted to keep going and going...Satan wanted the game to be finite and Jesus lose His life and we get back into Satan's game of winners and losers....very interesting.

[@pkpapers]

The question is: "Why should the church NOT be losing ground?" --------- Is the purpose to spread the gospel? What exactly is meant by "the gospel." Perhaps there is a growing demand for learning how to follow Christ, which is not available in churches. "I come with all authority" he said. "We have authority" say the churches.

[@143prettycool]

Y preachers can't open the book of preachers themselves and all believers as an open book so that everybody can study each other. We can study something from every person. This brings equality and the holy persons don't need to be afraid. Y the equality is not shown there so that everybody will be treated same rather than concentrating on one persons mind. Nobody is perfect everybody can learn something from other. If daily one person is accused how the victim get corrected by following his wrong steps,how can they study good things from others. Everybody is equal before law I believe that. If its doing targetting on a person atleast the accuser should have guts to show his good heart so that the victim can follow him.

[@Trendithings]

The bible says the church finishes statistically as a minority relative to the entire world.I would just focus on doing whatever one can do in terms of communicating christ to the world to the best of our ability.I just watched a video of 40 people getting baptized in Miami a few hours ago. So its not all doom and gloom

[@1_John_2_27]

Taught by the Holy Spirit - 1 John 2:27 (FREEDOM FROM RELGIOUS ENSLAVEMENT) Vs. Taught by humans that just lord over you and make merchandise out of you (religious enslavement)

[@willielee5253]

@Genesis 12:3 = Matthew 25:31-46 Abraham's Descendants Brethren of Jesus goats sheep Matthew 6:20,21. (20. But lay up for yourselves treasures in Heaven....(21. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. God bless us on our journey!!!

[@anthonydesilva8746]

The church has the solution. Look up Kirby De Lanerolle a mystic from Sri Lanka.

[@1_John_2_27]

Doing God's Will "Church" Vs. Doing man's will "church"

[@obsidiongamer7651]

Rick warren anybody ? 🤔