Switch to Charlotte Mason from Classical

Shift your thinking from a trivium-based classical approach to a Charlotte Mason approach. Tenth in a series on how to make the transition to the Charlotte Mason approach in your home school.
Videos for Making the Transition Gradually
• How to Switch to Charl...
Video on Five Flavors of Homeschooling
• Video
Video on Key Differences between Classical and Charlotte Mason
• SCM Answers Your Quest...
Video on How Composition Is Taught Over the Years in Language Arts
• The Natural Progressio...
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Facts vs. Ideas
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Another Example of Facts vs. Ideas
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Savoring vs. Shoveling
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Teach the Child
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Feed Your Mind
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Using the Mind vs. Feeding the Mind
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Teaching Composition
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[@intentionallymade]

I feel like bc CC and the Dorothy sayers book became so popular that classical got a weird rigid stereotype. I love Andrew Kern and how he explains a Christian classical education and love Doug Wilson’s approach on it as well. I find myself somewhere in the middle… living on a homestead, learning organically and leaving room for creativity and exploration but also teaching skills, memory work and infusing the arts throughout. Keeping our foundation on the goodness of Christ. Finding my way in the middle here and really loving it.

[@SimplyCharlotteMason]

So glad you are enjoying your homeschool journey! Thank you for sharing your thoughts and some resources that you have found helpful!

[@kels4754]

That's well said.

[@joyfulhelpmeet]

There is beauty in both models to be certain. I also think it depends on the child’s temperament. I love the classical model and for my more academically inclined children I have gone with that. However I also have a child is very sensitive (and another with special needs) and they thrive with a slower more gentle delight of Charlotte Mason

[@joyeecole7219]

I personally think CC is not clashing with CM. I love both! I actually think they compliment each other. Perhaps when people are thinking of memorising bare facts, they are thinking of memorising for the sake of getting through things quickly. But the fact is, while parent(s) is /are the chief educators for their own children, outside of community day there is lots of scope for living ideas to supplement those facts. How and when to supplement those facts are up to the parents’ discernment and wisdom. Plus, students of CC will come back to those facts later in another stage and understand them better (through CC tutors and parents guidance) and debate about them. CM is good and I love it by the fact that it is really gentle to the children’s early years and I like many elements of pre school priorities of it. This is where CC doesn’t mention a lot, but I don’t think they are dismissing it either. Different people carrying out CC can look very different and many CM families carry out CM very differently too. Dorothy Sayers comparison of Trivium approach and the three different stages was simply her hypothesis. She never claimed that as an absolute, she also said this coincide with the child development. If you read it carefully, she also said Trivium would work with people in different stages of life. At the end of the passage, she herself said she wasn’t sure how far this hypothesis would stand correct. I am sure those who read her speech in Oxford can be sure of that. I am doing both and am ready to tweak and adjust accordingly to different children, different stages of my life and circumstances. Thank you Sonya for putting this beautifully.

[@SimplyCharlotteMason]

Thank you for sharing your experience with these approaches in your homeschool!

[@HickoryDickory86]

The problem is that Dorothy Sayers' "Trivium-as-Stages" model is not classical. It's thoroughly a modern concept that was brand new with her. No one in Antiquity or the Middle Ages conceived of the Trivium the way she suggested and the way too many people do today, unfortunately. The Trivium was never a model or a set of stages; it always was and always will be the first three of the seven liberal arts. They are subject areas that are to be studied in their own right-namely grammar, logic, and rhetoric. The classical art of Grammar was in Antiquity and the Middle Ages the same as it is to us: learning and learning how to use good and proper language. The classical art of Logic was learning and learning how to use proper logic. The "textbook" used to teach logic was (and still should be) Aristotle's _Organon,_ a compilation of six of Aristotle's logical works which was given its final form by Andronicus of Rhodes in 40 BC. And the classical art of Rhetoric was learning and learning how to use proper rhetoric. The "textbook" used for rhetoric was, you guessed it, Aristotle's _Rhetoric,_ though often complemented by Quintillian's _Institutes of Oratory_ and supplemented with various writings of Cicero. Each one of the _seven_ classical liberal arts is an established subject area of study, and they even have long-established standard texts that were used throughout the ages when taught. Most of these texts still exist and are readily accessible, and could still be used as the textbooks to teach all seven of the classical liberal arts. Again, the "Trivium-as-Stages" approach is not classical. It is modern. Sayers may have had worthwhile insights into childhood development, much like her contemporaries Bloom and Maslow, but that does not mean we should reimagine over two thousand years' worth of actual historical reality. Her insights may well have a place in the way a class or an individual student is instructed by his or her teacher, but we cannot slap classical words as labels on top of a decidedly modern educational models and then pretend we're being "classical." If we do so, we're only fooling ourselves and everyone else who uncritically buys what we're selling. All that said, Charlotte Mason also certainly had worthwhile insights into childhood development and the teaching of children, and there is no incompatibility between the Charlotte Mason method and a _genuine_ classical education (i.e., studying the real seven classical liberal arts and doing so via the same ancient texts). Indeed, Charlotte Mason was familiar with various methods used by classical educators like Quintillian and employed many of their methods in her own (like narration), revising where she thought necessary to do so.

[@kevinvictor911]

Well said.

[@emerlynkhong8265]

I appreciate SCM in explaining the practicals of CM ed. I was new and still am new to homeschooling world. I stopped exploring classical ed after watching this episode two years ago, but came across a few good resources on classical Charlotte Mason and classical ed who are explaining and representing classical ed well. Thankful for this comment too!

[@HickoryDickory86]

@@emerlynkhong8265 You're very welcome. I would say think of the seven classical liberal arts as your core curriculum (with modern subjects added in where appropriate), and the Charlotte Mason method as a useful pedagogy where appropriate. (It's kind of hard to teach mathematics with narration, for example.) And to list the standard texts for each classical art: *Trivium* ∙ Grammar - There are two books titled _An English Grammar for Classical Schools,_ one by Robert Gordon Latham and the other by Thomas Kerchever Arnold. Both were published in the 1800s, and either would be a good choice for English (also put a heavy emphasis on phonics and writing, especially cursive). Then there's Greek and Latin; Arnold also wrote grammar texts books for classical schools for these as well. ∙ Logic - Aristotle's _Organon,_ with Porphyry's _Isagoge_ (Introduction to the Categories) ∙ Rhetoric - Aristotle's _Rhetoric,_ supplemented with Aesop's _Fables,_ _The Letters of Cicero,_ and some ancient progymnasmata (rhetorical exercises), like Libanius' (one of his students was St. John Chrysostom, which means John "the golden-mouthed"). *Quadrivium* ∙ Arithmetic - _Introduction to Arithmetic_ by Nicomachus of Gerasa, or _Arithmetic_ by St. Boethius (his edition of Nicomachus' work) ∙ Geometry - _Elements_ by Euclid ∙ Music - _The Manual of Harmonics_ by Nicomachus of Gerasa, or _The Fundamentals of Music_ by St. Boethius (his edition of Nicomachus' work) ∙ Astronomy - Claudius Ptolemy's _Almagest_ And all of these can be found in English translation in the public domain, for free, online (except maybe _Manual of Harmonics_ ), and also as print-on-demand. I hope this helps you in your classical education journey. Also check out the Classical Liberal Arts Academy for some good resources.

[@SimplyCharlotteMason]

Thank you for contributing your thoughts to this conversation!

[@FloraNoire]

@@HickoryDickory86thank you so much for your insights! I have written your comment with your suggestions in full in my commonplace book. I appreciate the time you took to share your knowledge with us, it’s blessed me immensely!

[@brandimgg]

This video is a feast of living ideas. I cannot think of a higher compliment.

[@seasonalliving2881]

I think there is so much beauty in both methods. I think there is a way to have the best of both in homeschooling. Thank you for the info!

[@hannawatts8368]

There is beauty in both formats. I can see how both misunderstand one another. Currently reading up on the classical model and it encourages a lot of what is being mentioned here.

[@kristiLB93]

So interesting! I have been using a “classical” model curriculum/co-op group for fours years now and I’ve always been on the fence about the model. Thank you for posting this! Nuggets of wisdom to ponder.

[@zillycrew]

Sounds so much more relaxed. And enjoyable.

[@vanessat9309]

You really nailed it here! Thanks very much for sharing.

[@kristimorris22]

You are so easy to listen to! Thank you for your wisdom.

[@MsSusieHomemaker]

Super informative Sonya! I hope you will continue to do weekly videos, they are really balm of encouragement to me.

[@chdao]

Thanks for the reminders. I have been researching homeschooling for 1.5 years now, in hopes that I will be more relaxed when it comes time to teach my son the 3 Rs. Yours were some of the first videos that I discovered and now I am circling around again :)

[@browneyedasmr]

I do classical conversations as my homeschooling group and I actually really like it!

[@SimplyCharlotteMason]

Thank you for joining us! Please reach out with any questions you may have as you embark on your homeschooling journey!

[@rootedwillowhomeschool]

Principles inform reason. This is so true. Thanks!

[@marcyandscott]

Thank you for this. It is very helpful. Also, your hair is amazing!

[@tracylayne9918]

You do such a great job!!!

[@thartwig26]

I really appreciate what you are saying. I don’t think any concept should be sped through.

[@strykerdawn1]

Your videos are just so helpful. Thank you so much Sonja! We just ordered a Shakespeare study from the website!

[@rb7454]

Thank you

[@NatashaShchukina]

Completely opposite to what we see in our public schools . Speed up pacing guide, so sad.

[@MrsMann89]

Question: Can you give an example of the difference between facts and ideas? If they should memorize ideas instead of facts, take for example having them memorize the states of the Union, or the presidents, or a poem or a bible verse. What would you replace that with? What do you mean facts come along with the ideas? I like what you said about learning about a person's values and not just bullet-points about them; that was helpful. Not sure I understand the contrast you're drawing between finding a voice in writing and formatting. My concern with writing is that they learn to organize their thoughts, not something all writing programs do. Formatting your paper is typically one of the last steps. Would appreciate more clarification on that as well. Thanks!

[@SimplyCharlotteMason]

Here are some blog posts on the concept of facts vs. ideas that might be helpful: simplycharlottemason.com/blog/facts-vs-ideas/ simplycharlottemason.com/blog/using-the-mind-vs-feeding-the-mind/ simplycharlottemason.com/blog/another-example-facts-vs-ideas/ A writer's voice involves the ability to express his thoughts clearly and effectively. What we want to avoid is giving the students artificial guidelines that force their natural voice to become stilted; for example, requiring a set amount of sentences or a set amount of adjectives or adverbs or using only active verbs.

[@MrsMann89]

@@SimplyCharlotteMason Thank you; I will check out these blogs. I see we are on the same page regarding writing.

[@mycrazyfamilyid]

Read a few chapters of "Poor Richard" by James Daugherty and compare to your typical history textbook's information on Benjamin Franklin and you will see the difference between ideas and facts.

[@danitelesqueiroz6872]

I’m sorry but I was reading the article and there’s absolutely none difference between the classical education and Charlotte regardless to nurture the mind. Classical education is the education of contemplation, the rhythms, the soul, the restful and enjoyable learning. The way you say seems like classical education is only boring and unusual knowledge, and this is not true. The video was confusing because you do not clarify what type of classical education you are talking about. You are talking about the Greek classical education or the Agostinian Classical Education?