Europe's NEW High Speed Train - Talgo AVRIL

[@DBBravo]

19:19 the train that you see from the windows and also in Gijon are narrow gauge (1000mm). The north of Spain truly is a blend of gauges, sadly these lines do not experience much investment so they are bad (although scenic) regional trains and barely good enough commuter trains. The green train at Oviedo is a tourist luxury service, Transcantabrico or Costa Verde Express

[@markellis6413]

Used the Euskotren & FEVE network in Northern Spain. Travelling from Bilbao to Santander our train stopped at a station & the driver told us we were going no further as he had to take the train back to Bilbao as the train from Santander had been cancelled. We had to get on a minibus that appeared from nowhere, calling at every station until we arrived at a station in the Santander commuter network where we were told to get on another train to complete our journey. It was quite an adventure...

[@osasunaitor]

​@@markellis6413 for you it's an adventure. For us who need to use those trains, it's a nightmare. Spain only invests in high speed (and not even properly as this video proved). It's a mess.

[@maxart3392]

You may love or hate Talgo, but with its gauge-changing capability it's vital for Spain, though this comes at the expense of ride quality (pairs of single wheels don't do their job the same way as the bogies - and that's also why they must be hauled by locos instead of distributed power, which is probably also incompatible with single wheels). Your table was probably (even) more shaky because the seat in front of you looked unoccupied: some weight on it would stabilize it a little. What I don't understand are the Ryanairish seats in the 1st class (or whatever they call it). By the way, is this Talgo also tilting like the previous versions?

[@isgota]

Regarding the tilting, no the S-106 wide body coaches don't tilt. The ones that will tilt are the S-107 based on Talgo VII coaches.

[@marktownend8065]

@@isgota I assume the S-107s will be deployed on routes with significant stretches of curvy classic track where tilt can have some time benefit, while still being able to keep up with the S-106s on the HS trunk lines.

[@marktownend8065]

WIth a conventional bogie/truck attachment point in the centre of its wheelbase, when one wheel drops into a short 1mm depression on the railhead the car body only drops half that as the truck pivots vertically on its other axle. With Talgo tech the car body experiences the full extent of the irregularity. Perhaps one day they'll smooth it out with active suspension. The video didn't mention the 100% level floor throughout the passenger accommodation, with level boarding at every public door from 760mm platforms, standard on Spanish HS lines. This is also enabled by Talgo tech which not only avoids bogies (except end cars and power heads), but uses independently suspended wheels on little stub axles rather than conventional wheelsets linked by axles. The floor of the inter-car passageway actually passes between the tops of the wheel discs. Talgo claims they can also build this train for level boarding at 550mm platforms, again with continuous low floor throughout. Alstom are also sticking with end power car configuration, after their AGV didn't appeal to SNCF. The manufacturer now claims centralisation of the lightweight modern traction equipment is substantially cheaper than distributed throughout the train. It is lighter overall, far less complex, easier to maintain and thus more reliable, they say. Other companies like Stadler have concentrated traction equipment into specific areas on a small number of cars, in some of their designs mostly in the pursuit of continuous low floors along as much of the train as possible.

[@pastvz2781]

Considering that, except the fully high speed lines, all remaining railways in Spain are in shambles and train services are practically non-existent, it just doesn't make sense that they decided to build the Northern high speed lines in Iberian gauge... (They were literally built from scratch). It sounds more like they did so to prevent French or Italian competition, since they won't likely invest in Talgo trains (which suck) just to run less profitable services to the North

[@ADAMEDWARDS17]

Avant units (4 car built by CAF) are emus with no power cars but also guage change eg at Burgos when on the Madrid to San Sebastian line.

[@carlos_mitosis]

Chamartin station has recently started its renovation. it will be in the works for at least a decade

[@Trainviking]

I just noticed when I arrived there, I guess the entire situation is going to be much better. Do you know I'd Atocha will change a lot as well due to the construction works?

[@jncssl]

@@Trainviking Not as much, the works at Chamartín are quite big, the builing is getting emptied out and rebuilt, only the structure remains. The building is also getting expanded towards the north, so there's extra space for passengers. At 0:55 the white temporary wall on the left closes off the part of the builing on top of tracks 1 to 9, and also at the back at 1:20 is the other temporary wall that blocks the are on top tracks 20 and 21 On the other hand, Atocha is getting 4 new underground platforms for high-speed through trains towards Chamartin and HSL North, and there are also currently restoration works on the canopy in historic part of the station plus changes to the garden in the main façade so it can work as the main entrance to the station

[@baletio1627]

@@Trainviking Yes, like the changes in chamartin are going to be a lot more drastic than the ones in atocha, but in atocha there is opening in a couple of years a new underground station so the trains from the north could go to the south and viceversa, and they prospective of madrid is a big station with two terminals, one atocha and the other chamartin connected by the new through station

[@pastvz2781]

Y cuando se inaugure ya estará 10 años desactualizada jajajaja

[@danieleyre8913]

So in short… Pros: Step-free access, good cafeteria, vending machines, big toilets. Cons: Garbage seats, cramped, poor sound insulation, poor ride quality.

[@BobelSilencioso-g2i]

First hand experience from yesterday evening: I used the Avril Avlo service from Zaragoza to Madrid. Uneventful and pleasant trip. Noise and shaking similar to that of the S130s, nothing extraordinary or too bad. Seats are a bit narrow and hard, they are the same model installed on other Avlo models. They are perfectly ok for a low-cost service under 2 hours. The interior is nice and the train is roomy and well distributed. Overall, a modern high capacity , high speed train which is ideal for low cost services and trips under 3 hours (the majority in Spain). Honestly, I don’t understand why so much drama around this train. All Avrils will end up as Avlos eventually, when the new S-107 series (300 kmhr, gauge-changing narrow cabin "normal" Talgos) are delivered. Spanish Northwestern corridors and services into Portugal are going to need gauge-changing HSTs for several decades.

[@oriannabellardi8273]

Im sitting in the train wating to LITERALLY CRY reading this.... this are the absolute WORST seats Ive ever placed my bottoms at... I am sweating with anxiety.. the pain is 100% unbearable

[@DavidCanet]

ah, es normal vibraciónes, ??????? que locura es esta!!!!!! me voy del chat 😂😂😂😂

[@DavidCanet]

el usuario de 43 likes el que nunca ha viajado en tren AVE, y usa avión

[@hibuddy1473]

@@oriannabellardi8273 what? 😂

[@Alperg747]

You get what you pay for. Talgo offered these trains with maintenance 10 million euros cheaper than the rest of the manufacturers. That's really a lot of money for a single train. Obviously going so cheap has consecuences in the final product.

[@celulaperfecte]

me dan miedo los boogies y la pobre cabina de conducción

[@ricardotortosa2411]

@@celulaperfecte Un conocido vió uno de los boogies doblándose... con eso te lo digo todo.

[@vtgdemontrondo]

@@celulaperfecte este tren no lleva bogies lleva rodales independientes

[@tonywalters7298]

The "low bid" contracts always seem to cost more in the long run

[@trainjaune627]

The major Talgo advantage is: Short 12m body allowing 3.2m wide body (China wide standard) - allow 3+2 in 2nd class & 2+2 in 1st Class - same as China And all Talgo trains have natural tilting as standard, no pneumatic / electronic sensors / actuation! Just let it tlit! Low cost, totally reliable tliting! Great for curvy tracks, like Bordeaux - Nantes - Rennes (Which LeTrain of France also buys this train type!)

[@Roman-hx3qj]

May be bad to you but it is years ahead of what we have in the USA!

[@BobelSilencioso-g2i]

Something to be taken into account is this is not a "flagship" train (the Velaros on the Madrid-Barcelona line are) but a "workhorse" train, a higher capacity, faster, tri-tension, gauge-changing substitute of the Alvias that are the backbone of Spain's long distance rail services. Avrils are a swiss knife for the northwestern corridors that need fast, gauge-chaging trains. This a high speed train with basic comfort features, not a luxury train.

[@bojstojsa7574]

So like ICE 4 in Germany (because it's Spain it's with 300 km/h speed, but everything else fits).

[@BobelSilencioso-g2i]

@@bojstojsa7574 Yes, and the Avrils are quite cheap also compared to Alstom or Siemens HSTs. Also much lighter and consume less power, but the price you pay is they are bit shaky.

[@BobelSilencioso-g2i]

@@bojstojsa7574 And the service is not fine-tuned yet, more time gains will come during next.months. Overall, very good news for rail services in Spain, these trains were highly needed, despite they are far from being perfect.

[@km9284]

I've used to go to Barcelona from Madrid every week and Velaros were by far my least favourite train. Noisy, unergonomic seats and cafeteria coach felt like a rollercoaster.

[@BobelSilencioso-g2i]

@@km9284 You must be a train gourmet then, I'm a much simpler man.

[@transportocc1412]

Merci pour toutes les vidéos qui sortent le jour même de l’inauguration ! 🫶

[@kaekae4010]

All the internal configuration depends on the operator, so LeTrain will configure it however it wants, I suppose it will look for its optimal layout for its market. Furthermore, it will not use the variable gauge version, so it will surely be very different in terms of suspension elements, etc. As for the ride quality, it is famous in the Talgos, but that train is the first version of the new evolution of the Avril cars. So I guess they will improve. Renfe on the high speed lines to the north is desperate to be able to complete the demand. So it is being searched *and this is the ONLY one that can do it given the specialty of changing gauge. There are no other builders in the world capable of fulfilling that contract, not even CAF. In any case, something that must be mentioned, the concept of the Talgo is that they are very light and they are really low cars, so any imperfection on the tracks may be more noticeable. The Avril is positioned as the most efficient high-speed train in the world. (If I remember correctly, it weighs less than 80-100 tons than a single floor TGV, that's a lot). ps: I forgot to mention, there is another train/operator with a 3+2 configuration in its second class, the Shinkansen, and for many many years. And for the same reason, capacity is sought, and this is achieved by making wider cars.

[@thomasmeyer1408]

The video fails to acknowledge the fact that these trains are incredibly lightweight and exceptionally energy-efficient.

[@kaekae4010]

@@thomasmeyer1408 They always forget xD. But they really like that they don't have steps when entering, etc. By the way, the most accessible high-speed train on the eu market.

[@GoGeog]

Chinese HSR (which is heavily « inspired » by the Japanese Shinkansen also has 3+2 layout. So does Taiwan, which simply uses Shinkansen trainsets.

[@Konkacha]

I’d like to know if these energy efficiency stats come from actually using less energy or since they can cram more people in them with the 3+2 seating and claim a greater energy efficiency per head stat. Just a little wary.

[@isgota]

​@@Konkacha No it's an advantage of the Talgo technology. The older Talgo 350 (Renfe S-102/112) was already the most energy-efficient HS train in the world, but it has no extra seating.

[@sergiobasilio8098]

There's an urban project that has recently been aprooved, and it will renovate Chamartín station and change completely the surrounding areas. For those who don't know about it, you can find some videos about "Madrid nuevo norte" that explain the project.

[@ferazuza]

You really posted this very fast! Thanks for the effort, good job on the review!

[@m.angelferrer3987]

Madrid-Chamartín station has just started an incredibly astonishing full renovation, and it will be the center hub of the Madrid Nuevo Norte plan, go check both plans out! Quite interesting plans for the north of my city ahead.

[@BobelSilencioso-g2i]

Second day of operation to Asturias: trains full to the brim and no delays. As expected, these trains will be a huge commercial success.

[@DavidCanet]

El vuelo de balasto o proyección de balasto (ballast pick-up o ballast flight/flying en inglés y Schotterflug en alemán) es un fenómeno de origen aerodinámico que consiste en la succión de los granos de balasto por el tren y en su proyección hacia los bajos o hacia los laterales de la vía. Ello puede provocar daños en el material rodante, en la infraestructura (postes, armarios eléctricos, túneles, etc.) e incluso puede suponer un riesgo para los viajeros, ya que algunos granos pueden rebotar en los elementos de la infraestructura y golpear las ventanillas de los coches.

[@breoganithmile7333]

No doubt, one of the best and elegant trains in Europe 😍

[@BobelSilencioso-g2i]

No other vendor makes 300kphr gauge-switching trains. It's Talgo or nothing for the northwestern corridors. So no, Ouigo TVGs are not "top competition" as they can't change gauge, something that is going to be needed for many years in several Spanish lines or if you want to run services into Portugal.

[@antoniolongas5456]

CAF offers also gauge switching systems. Moreover Siemens has one pending tests that Adif and Spains Government do not approve (wonder why…). So then no, Talgo is not the only option. These sets were bought due to its price, almost 15mill cheaper, but that’s how renfe works, cheap above quality. It would have been great to see some Velaros or even Oaris from CAF speeding through these lines

[@BobelSilencioso-g2i]

​@@antoniolongas5456 CAF doesn't have a 300kmhr gauge-changing train. The Oaris is just a fancy prototype. In any case, Alstom doesn't have anything like this, therefore Ouigo can not be "top competion" (as labelled in the video) in most Spanish lines.

[@antoniolongas5456]

@@BobelSilencioso-g2i my reply wasn’t labeling ouigo or alstom. Regarding CAF, it is not just a fancy prototype. It is an actual train on sale. You are a clear Talgo fan, fair enough. But that doesn’t mean Talgo is great. They actually did a decent job with the 102 and 112. But seriously this is a tremendous failure. Do not care it wasn’t supposed to be a flagship train but just a workhorse… however, things can be done differently right? Anyways, good to have an increment in offer to some points of Spain

[@isgota]

@@antoniolongas5456 Sorry but the CAF Oaris prototype (Renfe S-105) seems to have been sold to ADIF as track testing train and the only one sold to date it's a downpowered one (250 km/h max) in Norway.

[@antoniolongas5456]

@@isgota did i say anything different? It is just a MODEL CURRENTLY ON SALE, and actually the oaris presented to Renfe was a modified one based on that exact model.

[@nicolasm.6768]

You can see Costa Verde Express carriages at 19:18, a luxury touristic train in narrow gauge that goes throughout the northern coast of Spain

[@UNAITXU401]

Ya era hora, Por fin los ponen en marcha. Es verdad estos trenes se idearon principalmente para transportar a mucha gente en distancias largas a alta velocidad pero para confort no, esos trenes serian mejores para Avlo ya que no ofrece ese confort que se esperaría uno al ser AVE, un día sin dudarlo iré a probarlos.

[@PilotoAlfa22]

Misma opinión, se nota que Renfe no tiene consideración con los usuarios, por los asientos "tipo autocar", y le va a pasar la cuenta (Iryo va a ganar más usuarios en primera clase). Ojalá que en una futura renovación de interiores, Renfe corrija el acolchado de los asientos de primera clase. Saludos cordiales

[@vtgdemontrondo]

@@PilotoAlfa22 no creo, Iryo no tiene trenes de rodadura desplazable.

[@osasunaitor]

​@@PilotoAlfa22 a mí los asientos de Iryo tampoco me gustan, son duros y tiesos. Prefiero los del Ave 103, 112 o incluso los de Ouigo

[@thegrowl2210]

9:08 Smooth, quiet, comfortable, and an all together delightful experience.

[@exosoma]

Way better than a plane or a car.

[@jorgesobredo7842]

Merci! A great video, very informative. Talgo technology has proved to be the only answer for high speed trains to the gauge diversity in the Iberian peninsula so despite its other shortcomings it will be a great success there. It will supposedly also be commercially competitive and a smoother ride on European single gauge track. So basically it will prove a great success for Avril and Renfe.

[@LoGaIta99]

Screens on seats strike me as a huge waste of money. Screen on planes makes sense because you very often don't have an internet connection and your luggage is very limited (so it is convenient that you don't need to bring your tablet/laptop if you want a big screen). But on trains, stable WiFi with some cached content is the way to go. Mobiles work most of the time and you can easily put your tablet in the luggage, no one is weighting/measuring it.

[@jorgyjojo3581]

On the Madrid - Galicia line it is quite known that Internet doesn't work on phones neither WiFi for a long time because the train crosses so many tunnels and goes through very isolated areas

[@LoGaIta99]

@@jorgyjojo3581 Your operators aren't covering the major railway lines of the country? Here in Italy all the high speed lines are already done.

[@etbadaboum]

Wonder if Starlink can work onboard high-speed trains...

[@fabiofabio203]

Sorry: the first class is in fact one bad 2nd and you paid 71eu? It is a scam! Uncomfortable seats, displays everywhere, vibrations beyond the limit etc., this train is truly a mediocre product. the train and the plane are 2 different things....very bad.

[@Desi365]

totally agree.

[@BobelSilencioso-g2i]

Chamartín is a construction site right now, but you already knew it before going.

[@kaekae4010]

Yes, they are going to build a big fucking station and huge park with the beach of the tracks buried underground. It will be impressive when they finish.

[@pastvz2781]

@@kaekae4010 It won't. By the time they finish it, it would be outdated by 15 years as all other Spanish infrastructure projects.

[@kaekae4010]

@@pastvz2781 But have you seen what the project is like? xDD

[@etbadaboum]

@@pastvz2781 Which are these other projects? Thanks.

[@gioprox5207]

The impression i got of this train is that if they changed the seats out for more plush ones and made comfort class have 3 seats per row instead of 4, it could have a much better riding experience. And who knows, maybe the extra weight from a more plush seat would help make the table less shaky

[@momchilnikolov3808]

It was time.Spain's trains are exellent!

[@jannemec4686]

Looks decent to me, the space between seats is awesome, wish it was like this on a plane:) Greetings from Czech rep, country with 0 high speed rails, oh well :) Yet seems Talgo will be very soon in Czech hands, so fingers crossed things will start moving here too

[@jeslan6037]

perdona por desengañarte , tu crees que el gobierno lo permtiria? , creo que no a ver que pasa.

[@bustixaniego]

20:00 gains 12 min vs s120/130 cause tracks north of León are not 100% functioning yet. Most of them are limited to 200km/h and some parts are yet under construction. These tunnels save about 1h from León to Pola de lena in Asturias.

[@jfmezei]

It was a big challenge for Alstom to make the double deck TGVs. SCNF wanted extra capacitry and got it via Duplex. Since the bogies between cars have 2 axles, Alstom has a bit more flexibility on weight of each car. But for Talgo, with single axle between cars, it can't go "Duplex" as it would be too heavy on the bogie, so they widened it to allow 3+2 to please accountants who care only about how many tickers sold and not interested in whether passengers like it or now. When you have a monopoly on a route that requires gauge changing, you can afford to make coach seating bad since you won't lose passengers to a competitor.

[@Nano3D-f5g]

As a taller than average person, OuiGo Duplex TGVs feel claustrophobic

[@philippenaluna2312]

One thing th tsome folks haven't comented on is the track. Track quality can affect ride quality. I appreciate that Talgo's have a bad reputation for ride quality, though my few expereinces (DB 'Nachtzug') were comfortable enough. The seat-back info/entertainment screen strikes me as a 'take it or leave it' scenario. The less charitable might compare (unfairly) with British-built Hitachi class 800 series seats - hard as 'ironing-boards'! I like the look of these new Avril train sets. They may need refinement over time, but methinks they're here for the 'long haul' (no pun fully intended!!).

[@sasasasue]

You're right; those seats did remind me of the Hitachi seats, but at least these Talgo seats still have space between each passenger (the Hitachi seats are so cramped, legs awkwardly touching 😅). I'm shocked that even with such new tracks, the shaking looked BAD.

[@osasunaitor]

These seats are bad, but the Hitachi seats are even worse in my opinion. Not only are they more cramped, the back of the seat is completely vertical too. I travelled from London to Bristol, I was tired and tried to take a nap as I usually do on trains, but it was absolutely impossible to find a relaxing posture.

[@trainjaune627]

Great breakfast in 1st class - large portion and best placement - better than the best European short haul / medium haul business class!

[@4ev3rY]

Many years ago, when the line was inaugurated to Tarragona, which is not BCN, I got into a Velaro almost newly released, I trembled as if I was dancing salsa, over time they became my favorite AVE train, I understand that a train can have small details to solve at the beginning, what if I agree with you is that after a train with so much time in study and in tests, it still has problems of this caliber, however it is RENFE and not Talgo who accepts this type of trains, and of course it's a shame for the awesome Spanish technology that these things happen.

[@Cepia120]

1:05 Madrid Chamartín is going thougth some works now to be expanded and have a nicer terminal you see it in the worst state!!! Hophully if you come back is gona look diferent (:. I do think the Avril will be good adition to Renfe fleet as it will provide more seats for congested routes and recolated other roling stock on other routes. However as you point out the Avril is not free from Trouble the seats are like that because when ordered the directors of Renfe at the time went cheep and now where paying the price for their poor destions. I do hope the seats does get enougth critics so Renfe directors can relize their mistake (hophully not to late). Idk if the S106 migth be a bit bumpier than S130 as it uses a diferent suspension but oh well. As for why Renfe decided to have 3 +2 seting its simple because of France verry expensive track fees so to have similar capacity SNCF TGV Duplex the S106 and they can take more advatage of the prices they pay that why the S106 have 3+2. I do hope the S107 (With Ex TrenHotel Talgo VII sets) will be much better while having the same powercar as the S106 is a totally diferent train think it as TGV POS but in Spain. Congrats on your video (:

[@johnmehaffey9953]

Dearie me I thought it was Friday already thibault, 😊 great post don’t think I’d like all that shaking though for those who get travel sickness it’d be a nightmare

[@Trainviking]

Whow your so fast by uploading the video. Well I won't be able to edit on the short term haha Great video.

[@DavidCanet]

Las causas Cuando un tren viaja a una velocidad elevada produce entre sus bajos y la vía una elevada carga aerodinámica de succión, la cual es capaz de arrancar y hacer volar los granos de balasto por encima de una determinada velocidad del tren. Esta velocidad, denominada velocidad crítica, se sitúa en el entorno de los 300 km/h, si bien puede reducirse bajo determinadas condiciones. Para comprender bien por qué se produce el vuelo de balasto es necesario realizar un sencillo análisis de las fuerzas que actúan sobre una partícula de balasto. Estas fuerzas son las que siguen

[@danielc7964]

Do you think the vibration of the cars is due to its lightweight design or the fact that the bogies must transition between standard/iberian gauge and where there would be structural reinforcement to make the ride smoother, there isnt any, because the trains design uses that space between the cars to expand/ contract gauge width?

[@chefchaudard3580]

It is due to the fact there are no bogies : each car uses indépendant wheels. High noise level is caused by Lightweight.

[@SantiagoGerardo-me9jc]

Tell me about your trains in British Isles.

[@leightonolsson4846]

It still knocks the UK out of the ring, yes I see the flaws and they are not good, but the speed and the price we can scarcely dream of

[@jeslan6037]

A Reino Unido , en otras sosas es posible , pero si lo sacan del ring , jajjajaajaj , ni comparacion.

[@sandyneedham6499]

I wonder if the lack of comfort on this train is partly due to the special bogey configurations necessary for the gauge changing "trick" that Talgo can do?

[@amineelfergui]

J'attendais cette vidéo avec impatience. Merci

[@grip2617]

What a fantastic and comfortable train!! Beautiful!!!

[@wasmic5z]

3+2 seating in Second Class and 2+2 in First Class is completely okay... if the train is wide enough for it. At 320 cm wide, I think they're too narrow to do that. The Shinkansen trains are 336 to 338 cm wide, and they can get away with it. But that's almost 20 cm wider, or 4 centimeters per person, which is quite significant. Add to that the bumpy ride and uncomfortable seats, and yeah... not exactly an amazing product. On the other hand, more seats in the width does also seem to translate to better seat pitch, and as a tall but slender person, I would actually prefer that!

[@allmyothersubscriptions]

Thank you for the video; your videos are so detailed in comparison to other rail vlogs!!!

[@Konkacha]

Great video, was subconsciously waiting for this review funnily enough. I think Talgo needs to ditch the single axle wheelsets if they want to eliminate the shaking completely as its still reacting to brand new railway lines. The 3+2 seating looks really cramped for a flagship carrier and those seats looks like those ironing boards that we're all too familiar with here in the UK. Train set looks really cool from the outside, wondering if they could keep the existing power cars and design a new set of coaches for them. Great to see gauge changing trains hit 300kph in revenue service now.

[@josefuertescuervo9079]

Se dice que Sncf y alstom van a utilizar la puntera tecnologia del velcro para empezar a pegar las maletas de los pasajeros al techo de los trenes.

[@DavidNewmanDr]

The breakfast menu had multiple languages. Was one of them Galego? It wasn't quite Portuguese.

[@pierre-yvesducas7653]

Merci Thibault pour ce « trip-report » au plus près de l’actualité!!! Bravo également pour le montage rapide de la vidéo!!! 😮 Lors de mon Erasmus en 2004, j’ai fait un trajet Madrid-Alicante en Talgo via la ligne classique (on était loin de parler de LGV a l’époque): une locomotive 252 et des voitures Talgo IV… et même une fourgon porte-autos entre la 252 et les voitures Talgo (une autre époque!). Bref… déjà à l’époque à 200km/h le confort m’avait semblé… hyper-inconfortable, impossible de dormir la tête contre la vitre!!! 😢

[@michaelhall8586]

Lovely trip. I like that the rest of the people in the carriage seemed nice and quiet

[@eds.4815]

I saw that train on the platform at Chamartin last week, and was surprised I hadn’t heard of it. I knew you’d come through with the news!

[@DonRailes]

I travelled yesterday in one of these trains and they are no as bad as you describe. May be, the seats are a bit hard or 3+2 configurarion is not the best, but they are good trains, much better than 130/730 for sure. I did the trip from Madrid to Santiago on board an Alvia 730 and the opposite in a 106 and I prefer, by far, 106.

[@justsamoo3480]

These seats are… something. They are way too thin for a normal long distance service, let alone the first class of a HIGH SPEED TRAIN. I would kinda get it if it was something like “premium economy/turista plus” and then feature another first class with 2+1 and a thicker seat. Also that colour does them no favour. I would propose running them as Avlo on Barcelona-Madrid line or some other busier lines like Madrid-Valencia due to their immense capacity. The only AVE services I would keep with them running would be these cross gauge routes, but also something that isn’t AVE, but would work with Avrils is Barcelona-Valencia.

[@hermenegildoc3933]

They are only for gauge changing lines

[@justsamoo3480]

@@hermenegildoc3933 They will be used on future services to France, which do not change gauges. Also i am sure that they will not be used by gauge changing services only, given the fact that they ordered 30 of them

[@espaciobarra]

One final note: I noticed that even the table seats in standard class have those entertainment screens, protruding like a sore thumb and eating useful space. The S106 seems to be a "greatest hits" of all of the bad things RENFE thinks are good in railways: capacity at all costs, terrible seats, gimmicky stuff all over the place, etc. Sure, it can run up to 330km/h, but with that ride quality? (And offering earplugs on a train? Never seen that before. I wonder why...) It's impressive how fast you managed to put this video out, Thibault! It's also one of your best ones. Great work.

[@blackmercury956]

Although the critisism is understandable, these train makes perfectly sense as Renfe where desperately in need of a highspeed train that can change from standard to 1520 and Iberirian 1610 gauge as the previous rolling stock were dated, less capacity despide the extreme high demands and limited to 250km/h. These trainset are the first in the world capable of doing that while going 330km/h. More so these train will be improved as the train should have been running in early 2016 but yeah delays. Also

[@isgota]

Almost sure that those aren't earplugs but headphones to be connected to the tablets.

[@eduardopascual5267]

They aren’t earplugs, but earphones to use with the entertainment system.

[@1crafter176]

Yea, and it's especially weird since the capacity thing could've been dealt with by making a double decker train instead, Spain has the gauge capacity for it! But Renfe and Talgo went for a single decker because it was the easier way out and they could cram people in more "efficiently"

[@ballyhigh11]

@@1crafter176 i imagine single deck trains weigh a lot less though? Talgos are famed for being lightweight and thus extremely energy efficent.

[@stevenmontoya9950]

Big yikes at that part where train felt it was rounding that curve too fast, you'd think Renfe learned its lesson after Santiago de Compostela. Just an aside and i could be wrong, but that greenish passenger train at Oviedo could be the Transcantábrico, Renfe's seasonal luxury train running on the northern meter gauge network.

[@DBBravo]

Yes! Its either that or Costa Verde Express

[@Yamayorya]

The ALVIA train which has served the route will now be used for a 2nd connection between Almería and Madrid

[@etbadaboum]

Wonder how ride quality is affected by the gauge-changing technology. Also since it's new, maybe it needs some warm-up? I really liked the interior design!

[@isgota]

14:03 Good review, but I doubt the proper word for those is "earplugs", those are probably "headphones" to be connected to the tablets on the seats.

[@katecosta571]

Works to improve Chamartin have either already started or are due to start soon. This is good because it is quite dated.

[@Swedish_protogengaming]

i like that they have screens on the seats

[@098saw]

oh wow multi gauge high speed train! this was in trials in japan but they just couldn't get it to work!

[@osasunaitor]

True, but Japanese trains would have to change from 1435 mm to 1067 mm, it's a far greater change than 1435 to 1668 (368 mm vs 233) and therefore more difficult to attain. Also 1067 is too narrow to operate trains at these high speeds, the train would be too unstable

[@sullybully]

This train truly brings mental debate whether it’s good or bad : You wanna like the train but you can’t (for some reason) _AND_ you wanna hate the train but you can’t! (for many other reasons) I really can’t decide, can I?

[@bionusantara-up2ft]

Will European high-speed trains compete with Chinese high-speed trains?

[@marsillinkow]

I get the advantages and disadvantages of locomotive vs EMU but EMU's are so much sleeker and sexier imo. The front of this train also looks like the 800 series shinkansen

[@carlosloman7738]

GRANDEZA ESPAÑOLA 🇪🇸

[@dannybrown8671]

I’ll take it one day, great video !

[@EurofighterGuy]

Can you make a trip in the portugese alfa pendular its not the best but its very good atleast for the price

[@Ribeirasacra]

On the 16th May the AVE S106 (AVRIL) trains were first to run from Madrid to Galicia. Oscar Puente, the Minster de Transportes y Movilidad Sostenible here in Spain tweeted that he took the train at up to300KPH to A Coruña . He did not say exactly how long on this trip it maintained this speed. The route in Galicia is already has a speed limit to to the horrific train crash at Angrois in 2013. So far there have been two trains which have broken down in Galicia on this route.

[@javierjimenezmartinez5613]

Hello. Yes, Chamartín is undergoing a thorough and complete refurbishment. Just a quick note to improve the information on your video: iryo is owned by a Spanish company, ILSA, and Trenitalia has a share of 45 %, so it is not an Italian company as such. At some points, you should try and be more accurate in the information you provide on your videos. I've also noticed you have been more keen and prone to show the possible weak aspects of this Talgo train; I wonder whether it would be so too in the case of an Alstom train... By the way, the ride quality depends a lot on the tracks quality, not on the train itself.

[@arnonuehm1]

A 3+2 Layout on a supposed premium product is just sad (even in 2nd class). 2+2 in 1st class isn't great either. It's a shame that little bit of extra width went towards capacity rather than comfort. The seats look very thinly padded and uncomfortable too. Might be fine on a regional train, but a high-speed long distance train? Coupled with the ride quality issues you pointed out this really does not look like a good experience. It also makes me a bit nervous about the German ICE developed by Talgo. I hope that one is a bit less shaky. 😬

[@joaorodrigues2905]

very expensive ironing boards

[@ogbkballa]

Not renfe cutting corners again?

[@itas3169]

What is the app used at 10:05 ?

[@liil_sleepy]

I will never understand why so many modern trains are going for airplane style ironing board seats, one of the reasons I like the train (at least here in the U.S.) is the seats are far more comfortable for the price in comparison to a plane.

[@mrnoah53]

I hope DB's (ICE L) and DSB's Talgo sets are not so similar to have these shaking problems. But they do look nice.

[@Nano3D-f5g]

Avril run at 310 KM/h, ICE-L top speed will be 230 Km/h so that should be a smoother ride, but it also depends how good the tracks are maintained in Germany

[@supersabba73]

that looks the same shaly travel i was getting on the ETR600 frecciargento in Italy on normal lines. ATR 470 too had this feeling and I was told that time that it was because the tilting system had been removed. Anyhow, might it be in this case because of this technology on the bogey that it allows it to run on different gauges?

[@patoeend8118]

El Talgo Avril is very nice and good train because the floor of train is on the same level as the platform. The author said the Talgo Avril is shaky. Thisis not correct. The TGY and the Siemens trains are also shaku. The problem is the condition of the track.

[@Desi365]

Are you saying that the Madrid-Asturias rail track that was inaugurated 1 year ago (!) is shit ??? That's quite an indictment, there

[@SMRTSBST]

Hi Thibault, I need some guidance & advice to make my channel as popular as urs

[@jfmezei]

on the 25 minute stop: normal for a new train but usually, problems surface after first days of service not on the very first day 😞. on 3+2 config: terrible. bigger question is whether others will follow like happened to 777 and 787 airplanes or Renfe will see people avoid those trains and revert to 2-2. on suspension: This is _apparently_ very light train with carbon fibre bogies (unless during development they reverted to steel bogies). But the bogies APPEAR to still be single axle between cars. (like the Turbo train we had in Canada in 1970s). A 2 axle bogie will halve the "bump" that each wheel/axle feels (but double the number of bumps). But it is much easier for suspension to suppress 2 small bumps vs 1 larger bump. And the gauge changing may also make it harder to dampen left/right motion. Would have expected that having a perfectly smooth ride was a technical requirement at 300kmh since at that speed, taking a bump the wrong way might cause the train to be launched into orbit around the planet. Apparentrly they sold to Le Train and hope to sell to other countries i Europe. Curious how the wider carriages will fit in various stations. Can understand how it can negotiate curves with wider but shorter cars, but it still needs to fit in a station with platforms.

[@diegosaiz2264]

Maybe Alstom Euroduplex trains don't tilt? Did you travel in upside floor?

[@Nano3D-f5g]

I did and feels claustrophobic, there is no much room for overhead luggage and if you are over 6,2ft you finish your trip feeling as the hunchback of Notredame.

[@luisstransport]

Great trip report

[@ralphzechendorf1644]

I wonder, is there really enough luggage space for a long-distance train ? If the economy class was full, i doubt there would be enough storage... It's already bad on a Thalys/eurostar with 2+2 layout... And the shaky thing is really a problem, if it shakes even at 220 kmh. Several years ago we rode on the LGV2 (Leuven-Liège in Belgium) in a regular train, I11 coaches, at 200kmh the train felt like it wasn't moving at all.

Interesting. I don't like the android tablets on the tables, but they're fine in the seats. You were saying that RENFE wants to use these in France against SNCF and Trenitalia. Does this mean Trenitalia wants to join the France-Spain hsl route too?

[@andrewthacker114]

Interesting ride, thanks for sharing

[@Nuberuroxu]

Man you are in my hometown! In fact I was on the train you crossed at the intercambiador.

[@Markelekram]

You didn't check out the premium lounge at chamartin??

[@SimplyRailway]

I didn't have the time

[@hdjus8653]

Why they didn't go with a double decker train like the TGV duplex. Are the loading gauges inadeguate, or something else?

[@BobelSilencioso-g2i]

Gauge change technology

[@isgota]

Talgo wheelset only has a pair of wheels shared between coaches instead of 4 on a normal rail bogie, that makes their coaches shorter than normal. If they went double decked, they would need to be even shorter and the stairs to access the upper deck would reduce the seating too much I'm afraid.

[@jchernandezcarde0912]

Buenas, ¿A nadie se le ha ocurrido pensar que gran parte del las vibraciones pueden deberse al mal estado de la vía? Hace unas semanas realicé un viaje de jornada entre Madrid y Zaragoza. Viaje en Iryo, Serie 109, Frecciarossa1000, a la ida y en Ave, serie 112 en el regreso. Los dos trenes se movían y oscilaban. Personalmente, la sensación que tuve es que Iryo era más silencioso y los movimientos no tan bruscos, pero las vibraciones y los movimientos estaban en los dos trenes. De todos modos, creo que todo el mundo acepta que Talgo tiene una menor calidad en el confort de marcha, y esto es así por la propia concepción del diseño del tren. Las ruedas libres, sin ejes, y no montadas en bogies hace que el sistema no sea capaz de absorber las irregularidades de la vía tan eficazmente como otros sistemas de rodaje. A cambio tenemos trenes accesibles, de piso bajo en toda la composición. Ligeros, que no maltratan el carril y capaces de pendular y cambiar de ancho de vía... Escoger un modelo de tren u otro dependerá de las necesidades del servicio y de la empresa explotadora...

[@reggytwobit]

Tiene pinta de que es una mezcla de ambos. Durante la fase de pruebas los trenes de rodadura desplazable (los que pueden alternar entre ancho internacional e ibérico) ya daban problemas de sobrecalentamiento en ejes, al igual que en el cambio de tensión entre 25000V CA y 3000V CC (Pero como es Renfe, pues...), no me extrañaría que estas cosas las hubieran dejado pasar. Por el otro lado los trenes de rodadura fija (solo ancho estandar) no estan dando problemas de vibracion, por lo que veo en videos.

[@michaelsmith9590]

While there is no way for you to tell, I wonder if train vibrations may be enhanced by the adjustment-of-gauge wheel assembly. Perhaps technicians at Talgo may have an answer?

[@juliendefreyne-tv3dl]

j'adore les tgv espagnole ce que m'ont appris cette video cette ecran tactile sur les siege et vraiment les paysage sont epoustouflant merci simply railway

[@jomanaitor]

are there any plans of improving? oh i don't know. the HUGE works that was happening side by side with the entrance door ,that you need to pass trought to get to that door,and that would been on camera if you just turn it a few degrees didn't say nothing to you about this topic?

[@ava-he9li]

Grabar gente sin permiso no es ilegal?

[@reggytwobit]

Grabar en estaciones de tren es legal, según la normativa de Adif para aficionados al ferrocarril.

[@georgetoth55]

personally, i think those shakes add to the whole experience of high speed. i have those on ex-Thalys trains at 300km/h and I love that. for me, if no shakes, no excitement... i wouldn't want it to levitate. 😂 for that, we have planes.. sort of.🤣

[@joostvanderlee9569]

7:23 i do not understand that comment, and definitely dont agree. why is it okay on planes and not on trains?

[@EpicThe112]

I wonder if this train can actually change voltages and gauge which is what its predecessor model S130 S730 can do. Very impressive trip report 1:44 looks like the destination board has services that use the tunnel between high-speed stations in Madrid 8:44 cab display for German and Austrian high-speed trains Zwangsbremsung

[@isgota]

It indeed changes voltages and gauge as shown at 16:39

[@reggytwobit]

Yes it can and in the units that can change the voltage it has usually caused a lot of problems in the testing phase.

[@DIASDEMUSICA]

Some of them can change gauges, and some other have a fixed gauge (international), all can change between voltages, and specially those that will be destinated to France services

[@EpicThe112]

@DIASDEMUSICA thank you for telling me about that and I wonder if they can combine voltage and variable gauge change with International services. That way this Spanish high-speed train can replicate what its predecessors the unpowered Talgo sleeper trains did

[@mckiwen]

the Issue of the 3 different gauges in use in Spain is specially a big issue in the north of the country. We have metric, iberian an standard gauge and the different gauges imply different quality services. The metric gauge is bad, really bad served with incredibly old trains and non existent long range trains and the regional services with average speeds of 30 to 40 km/h on services that can span up to 200 km (so do the math for the travel times). Thus, the need for gauge changing trains is a competitive advantage for Talgo and a way to secure contracts within Spain. the EU has mandated that all tracks should be converted to standardad gauge but I heavily doubt we will ever see such thing, as the implications are massive.

[@DavidCanet]

Pekín - Shanghái 1.317 kn 4h47 average Speed 276 Pekín - Guangzhou 2.302km 8h06 average Speed 285km/h Shanghái - Hong Kong 2.302 km 8h30 average 273 Shanghái - Xi'an 1.502 km 6h07 average 247 kmh Guangzhou - Shenzhen 108 km 1h07 99 kmh Chengdu - Chongqing 306 km 1h20 average 247 kmh Hangzhou - Guangzhou 879km 4h03 average 218 kmh Nanjing - Hefei 300 km 1h09 average 265 kmh Zhengzhou - Xi'an 600 km 2h58 average 218 kmh Jinan - Qingdao 310 km 1h08 average 279 kmh

[@MrDavidcanet]

😢😢

[@jnthn.stmn0702]

Hopefully the new ICE L from Talgo for the DB in Germany will be better. Otherwise the DB should buy the ICE trains always from Siemens. These trains are good

[@Nano3D-f5g]

the ICE L ride will probably be smoother since the top speed is way lower.

[@jappedut9009]

I wonder if the new Danish Talgo Waggons will be just as shaky 🤔🤔🤔

[@hpv242]

Great review!! I've seen you use an app with information about railways characteristics. Could you tell which that application is? Thanks!

[@rchambers6858]

Mapply

[@SantiagoGerardo-me9jc]

Dont you see the renovations???or I have to reman you abut British Raíl??????????

[@albe6253]

The problem of the Avril is it's delays. When planned, Renfe haven't any competition and many corridors were at full capacity without possibilities of more services because the lack of trains. It's a concept of train for 4-5 years ago, before competition started. Talgo rattling is a classic... I only wish they have improved the pressurization inside the coaches (I have an Avlo trip in 3 weeks and it would be an Avril... as my seat reservation is 6E). Suspension and wheel (rodal) mechanism is very different in fixed gauge than changing gauge so the fixed ones will be slightly comfortable than the dual gauge ones. But it has to be tested... Chamartín now is a completely mess. It's in a huuge plan of renovation and expansion, with enginering works in the next years.

[@joaorodrigues2905]

the first prototype of Talgo Avril was shown at Inno Trans 2010...i still remember that

[@uncipaws7643]

The first class seats appear rather narrow but with huge gaps between. I would also think that there are better seat types.

[@joaorodrigues2905]

they look cheap and like an ironing board

[@freesourcandy]

I'm absolutely not jealous of the fact that the Spanish have got so much variety and so many operators