Knights: Muscle-Bound Hunks or Skinny Manlets?

If you imagine knights as armored bodybuilders you're in for some disappointment... In real-life history they could be expected to be strong and athletically built, but lean rather than big & buff.
How would we know that? By looking at depictions of knights from that time, as well as the size and proportions of actual suits of armor. You'll quickly notice that fantasy physiques would never squeeze into those.
So let's take a look at the available sources to get a picture of what they really looked like (on average). We'll also find out why Link would have been an ideal knight. :)
** Other relevant videos **
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Why Armor Did Not Make Knights (Fully) Invulnerable...
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** Sources / image credits **
Medieval imagery:
manuscriptmini...
Secretum Secretorum (10th century) about how a man should be built:
www.colourcoun...
Men From Early Middle Ages Were Nearly As Tall As Modern People
www.sciencedai...
Historical fighting manuscripts:
wiktenauer.com/
Suits of plate from the Met Museum
www.metmuseum....
Knight by Ameeeeba
www.deviantart...
** Music credits **
“Medieval: Exploration” by Random Mind
opengameart.or...
CC0 1.0 Universal Public Domain
Outro:
"Highland Storm" by The Slanted Room Records
theslantedroom...
Used with artist's permission
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#skallagrim #knights #history

[@chrisball3778]

Henry VIII actually was very athletic in his youth. He put on a bunch of weight after he was seriously injured in a jousting accident. Prior to that he was genuinely tall and muscular. There are a couple of his suits of armour which are just about the closest thing to matching the stereotypical He-Man physique you'll see.

[@Philweasel]

Henry was just naturally quite robust, and he was a huge eater of course (and he could afford it). Also a wrestler, and certainly a man who liked to be the biggest dude in the room. I could definitely see him being considerably more bulky than the average knight.

[@jonharker9028]

Yeah, Henry VIII was definitely an outlier prior to that athletic decline - being 6’2” (≈188 cm) when the average guy is 5’7 (≈171 cm) [like Skall mentioned] is a massive difference, and having the money to afford so many banquets and so much training + exercise puts him in a distinctly optimal position for that impressive body. He wrestled and fought mêlées and jousted to break lances (riding is definitely a physical exercise) until and even after the big injury. I wouldn’t be surprised if he looked like an MMA Middleweight or Light Heavyweight on a regular day outside of weight cuts. (If people want to look up examples, Jan Błachowicz or Luke Rockhold or Chael Sonnen come to mind.)

[@Specter_1125]

@@jonharker9028 you might not realize it, but even today, being 6ft means you’re taller than around 85% of men.

[@hellomate639]

There's a reason he was one of the core historical figures inspiring Robert Baratheon from GoT.

[@thehermitthetower1126]

​@@Specter_1125worldwide isn't a useful metric in this case.

[@DTex.45ACP]

Edward IV was a relative absolute beast and clocked in around 6'4", which was incredibly massive in the 1400s. In his earlier days, say Towton, he was probably closer to the hulking knight trope, but he fattened up pretty quickly when he wasn't actively killing people in battle.

[@tabby_cat]

his grandson Henry VIII seems to have taken after him

[@Valiguss]

Literally just Robert Baratheon lol

[@giulyanoviniciussanssilva2947]

I would say he was fat and would still beat us up.

[@Bob-bs9ok]

P. Sure 6'4" is still absolutely massive

[@calj6148]

@@Valiguss we can take that walk it further and say the whole Wars of the Roses is the War of the Five Kings because well George RR Martin did base it on real British history. The Andals are like the Romans/Angles and Saxons who worship the newer organized religion the Seven(Christianity), and the first men are the Celts who follow the old paganism. Aegon's conquest is an allegory of the Norman Conquest, Aegon's dragons are like William's mounted horseman. In the show and books the farther north you go the more Yorkish English and eventually full on Scottish highland clansy the culture gets(the uncivilized wildlings are similar to the Picts beyond Hadrian's wall) and obviously further south more posh capital city London folk of King's landing. Also the ironborn are literally vikings they pillage rape and steal for a living and once held the mainland until they were expelled(the Danelaw/domain of Harrenhal). We can dive even deeper about individual characters representing actual specific historical figures but people have already done entire videos on that in better detail

[@Linkous12]

Just looking at gymnasts or even calisthenics practitioners shows that you can be strong as hell without looking like a bodybuilder. I'm sure historical warriors, generally speaking, looked more like Brad Pitt's Achilles than Arnold Schwarzenegger's Conan.

[@anon4854]

You're kind of highlighting the problem there. Arnold is big because he has truly incredible genetics _but_ also because he abused the hell out of steroids. Is that a fair comparison to make? Is our modern standard of a juiced up meathead a proper analogue for medieval knights? Compared to people of the time knights would have been both stronger and more muscular simply due to more reliable and better nutrition alone.

[@57WillysCJ]

If you look at American NFL players of the past, they were not as massive as they are today. I would say it started in the late 70s to early 80s these guys were constantly hitting the gym and even having nutrition specialist help them. Same with actors getting pumped up for movie roles. The hich school I went to got it's first weight machine in 77 -78. Yeah it wasa small school, but it encouraged most to spend spare time using it. Arnold's goal was to become what he is and pursued it with proper instruction the way a swordsman or martial arts person would. Heck even ice skaters train to an extent that few in the old days could afford to accomplish. You could see Roman Gladiators more like this as they had good diets and lots of training time. Even a wealthy knight couldn't spend that much time as part of it was taken up with riding, parties and chasing girls, same as college kids today without the riding unless it's motorcycles. I would say a motocross racer would be of the same size as would most rodeo contestants.

[@cottagehardcoreultrasw3998]

​@@anon4854 well this is a wrong conclusion. they didbt have better food. knights ate a lot of meat and medieval diets arent super healthy. food was used in according to the 4 fluids and white food was perceived as neutral. i doubt that medieval knights ate better than nowadays bc we know what nutrians are. they didnt. read some medieval diet books they are really crazy.

[@cottagehardcoreultrasw3998]

​@@57WillysCJhahaha you have no idea what a knight was doing! knights were training on a daily basis, if they were proffessional soldiers. in the early days they would also live and work in their estate, later on they would just manage their lands and delegate a lot of the bureucracy. most knights were in a retinue and had to be ready for war at all time, especially in the early days. they really didnt have the time for chasing after women or being drunk all the time. they were professional soldiers who had to train their retinue, hold together the family, fullfill their dutys as a vassal, engage in conflicts, lokk after their subjects and had to engage in roman catholicism. "partys" were social gatherings of nobles with strict rules of conduct. christmas maybe the only feast which could escalate into something we picture in our head if we think of a medieval feast. knights were working all the time and had a strict regiment. wasnt very fun to be one.

[@anon4854]

@@cottagehardcoreultrasw3998 I never said they ate better than nowdays but the majority of people nowdays have atrocious diets so that point is actually more debatable than you seem to think. They ate better than peasants of the time and meat, i.e. protein, is a key component in muscle development. The important part of the comparison I made is that knights would have been bigger than peasants _of that time_ due to diet. Peasants would have struggled to meet the caloric surplus necessary to develop larger muscles whereas knights would have more reliably met that caloric surplus. Not only that but consistent caloric deficit in youth, which would have been widespread among peasants of the time, has a tremendous effect on both height and muscle development into adulthood. Knights were typically from wealthy or aristocratic families and as such would not have been in caloric deficit in childhood very often. If two people with identical genetics go to the gym and use identical workout plans but one party eats a protein rich diet and the other can barely scrape together their daily caloric requirements the one eating meat will have bigger muscles.

[@vjohnson6557]

I like how you mentioned Link from Legend of Zelda at the end, and it’s very canon that Link is incredibly Strong, even though he’s quite small in his size. Zelda in fact, sometimes appears taller than Link.

[@saveriocarro9399]

As a kinda short guy who loves TLOZ I really appreciate that everyone remarks how freaking strong Link is in proportion to his size or the size of the monsters he fights, gives some David vs Goliath vibes.

[@Ninjaananas]

Zelda often is taller than Link. And I imidiatelly checked that in Tears of the Kingdom. Zelda is again taller, though that Link is pretty much tiny.

[@none-ro9dz]

@@Ninjaananas 3d link has always been a tiny twinky prettyboy lol

[@linkdx7079]

​@@none-ro9dz tp link is fairly tall compared to other hylians iirc

[@vjohnson6557]

Zelda in Totk probably is taller, then again what you wear like shoes,boots or in totk sandals can make you look taller or shorter depending on what you wear.

[@LordReginaldMeowmont]

As a personal trainer and martial arts instructor, I'd like to add that you are correct. It is possible to train for muscle size, muscle strength, or both. In combat strength and size each have pros and cons. Strength could be more important when you have the protection of armor. Most professional fighters aren't as built as the Silver Era bodybuilders for a good reason.

[@Scaevola9449]

God, don't get me started on bodybuilding. The absolute state of the sport in modernity is a disgrace.

[@LordReginaldMeowmont]

@@Scaevola9449 It all went downhill after the Silver Era in my opinion. The introduction of steroids and focus on mass rather than athleticism ruined it.

[@michaelknight6905]

Bless you, herald of truth. I came hunting for the "ackshyuwally" crowd IMMEDIATELY and found you instead. Thank goodness. Anybody who thinks you can't get stronger without getting bigger does not know about lifting.

[@ReaperoftheWar]

That being said who can deny Conan the "giga chad" barbarian? Who doesn't want to hear the lamentations of the women?

[@HeadCannonPrime]

@@LordReginaldMeowmont There is still the Classic Physique category started in 2016. It is MUCH better than the Open competition.

[@asa-punkatsouthvinland7145]

At the Royal Armouries in Leeds they have a 'Giant' Armour that was worn by a 6'9" man (2.06 meter)! It is said to be John of Gaunt's it dates from 1540. The close helmet is of burgonet type, the skull with a low, roped comb, a pivoted peak with an extension underneath pierced with two sights.

[@Galikes]

Heard in video of some historian that it’s interesting to look at Henry VIII’s armor collection. As king he was big fan of tournaments and could afford to by new armor often. And he was kinda athletic in his youth. So his body protection slowly transforms from fitted armor to a huge metal barrel.

[@RorikH]

In a history class it also came up that he didn't just stop caring about his weight, he actually got wounded in the leg during ... I want to say a boar hunt but that might be Game of Thrones... and because it was medieval times it never really healed and forced him to give up on his more athletic pursuits.

[@wardvos7925]

@@RorikH If it was Game of Thrones he would have died XD.

[@arvintyree1109]

​@@RorikHI think his leg was injured during a joust and his wound never properly healed

[@RorikH]

@@arvintyree1109 Also a great way to get a stab wound, and the one supported by 12 seconds of looking at Wikipedia. (Though apparently he had already injured that leg years earlier, which is why the wound didn't heal well.)

[@Halbared]

Yeah, Henry 8 was a 6'2" wrestler, but he loved the high life, he thought he was god-emperor on earth.

[@MartinGreywolf]

First thing to be wary of - any manuscript of Lichtenauer tradition, and most from the HRE, aren't actually showing us knights, they are showing us (martially minded and sometimes well equipped) burghers, i.e. somewhat wealthy citizens of cities. That means these are people who have something other than being a knight for a day job. This even carries over to actual knights, those that had more administrative or judicial duties would train a whole lot less - it is only them that can actually make them to train, after all, so if they don't have an incentive... But let's look at the twinks. It's not a coincidence we see knights as those - here's a look at what Anna Komnena thought was the hottest guy around (quote from Alexiad): "His stature was such that he towered almost a full cubit over the tallest men. He was slender of waist and flanks, with broad shoulders and chest […] he was neither taper of form nor heavily built and fleshy, but perfectly proportioned". Yeah, the medieval height of beauty for men is, for all intents and purposes, a tall twink with a bit of muscle on. I guess that one thing modern and medieval fangirls would bond over is lusting after Sephirot.

[@arvintyree1109]

Or god forbid the ladies swoon over a man like Griffith instead of a man like Guts

[@davidmason4244]

​@@arvintyree1109griffith did nothing wrong.

[@slayeroffurries1115]

​@@davidmason4244🤓

[@Hell_O7]

@@davidmason4244 When everything he did is wrong, nothing seems wrong anymore.

[@AlekseyMaksimovichPeshkov]

What about square jawlines? Or did those not exist back then (assuming from there artwork and really all artwork and even photographs and films and sculpture before the late 20th century and early 21st century Square jawlines didn't seem to exist and everyone back then only had small round or oval faces)?

[@johnnymo4000]

Bodybuilder here and you are right muscle mass does not equate to muscle strength, definitely two different types of training. I'd imagine the best of warriors perhaps before knights became a thing had a decent amount of body fat for prolonged travel and combat, men today aren't really taught or advertised the need for a healthy amount of body fat. More muscle needs more energy, fat is energy and it's needed if you want strength and endurance to keep pushing.

[@carrabosse]

Exactly this.

[@Alex-cq1zr]

Fat also grants additional protection from injuries, both from strain and cuts and such (harder to reach vitals from what i heard). Fat does grant extra workload on muscles tho, so a fat person is likely to be stornger than a lean person with the same amount of physical activity. Not to mention, fat also gives simply more mass to swing around. I imagine a lot of modern perception of fat is shaped by BMI research which i think was sponsored by diet companies and assumes that someone is ultra unhealthy if they are a chubby... not even fat.

[@wardvos7925]

It makes sense though for multiple reasons. -If you are bigger you are also a bigger target to hit. -If knights would be super muscular they would tire faster and if a battle takes the entire day it's very bad to be out of breath after 30 minutes. -A bigger knight requires larger armor, which would be more expensive and more difficult to produce. -Warhorses were relatively small and a large knight in heavy armor would be more difficult to carry than a leaner one. -In order to maintain large muscles you need to get your daily calories. Food was expensive and rations of dried meat and bread aren't exactly the best for bulking.

[@Endru85x]

Also, i think in the old days people tend to got worms/parasites more often, eating in general came with more risks than we can imagine with all of processed foods, cooking, fridges, better medicine etc.

[@gayusschwulius8490]

The last point isn't really valid for armored knights. They were, with very few exceptions, relatively rich noblemen who could definitely afford enough of the right food. Plate armor itself was so expensive that nobody but the extremely affluent was ever capable of buying it. Same goes for war horses. So that argument probably applies to the common foot soldier, but definitely not to armored knights.

[@Zogger568]

I imagine a lot of knights would have similar physiques to modern active duty soldiers. There's obviously power in their build, but it's mostly focused on endurance and stamina and carrying heavy equipment over long distances. Too much muscle and you'll start to lose agility and speed.

[@taistelusammakko5088]

The active duty officers i know arr just regular dudes

[@dud5606]

I don't think so. The diet and style of training is completely different to those in medival times. The closest you can get is probably fencing competitors, which is kind of duh. All of them focus on agility and speed. Theyre all on the smaller size, toned and slim. And that is probably the type of physique average soldier or knight would have during those times.

[@irishijo1]

Skal, you're more in shape than 80% of people I have seen at HEMA/SCA/DAG events, and you appear to regularly do exercise, whether hiking or combat. If theres anyone I trust about Historical accuracy of the muscle mass of 13th century fighters, itd probably be you before some "well akshually" off the internet. Youre looking alot better, Keep up the hard work man

[@m0-m0597]

yikes, that doesn't sound that good. So you're saying when i finally go to a hema club, I will be surrounded by fat neckbeards? XD

[@irishijo1]

@@m0-m0597 To be fair, it is very much dependant on region and local socioeconomic disparity. I was in a pretty lower middle-poor area, so it stands to reason.

[@adrenjones9301]

Are you serious? No disrespect to Skal, but he is one Chunky boy.

[@Skallagrim]

Thanks, but I'm really in terrible shape right now. Back in 2017 I was pretty fit.

[@Vlad_Tepes_III]

Quick question: what's DAG? I recognize the other two, but not this one.

[@owenli7180]

I suspect parasite load was a significant limiter for body size back then too. No worming meds around in the middle ages. My first trip to France, I was amazed at how small the suits of armour were too. By just looking at the breastplates (i.e. the piece that couldn't really expand), it was clear that they were made for really compact people.

[@Skallagrim]

Good point! We know from some well-preserved archaeological finds that they were ridden with parasites.

[@JohnMicius]

@@Skallagrim didn't they use garlic and onions for that?

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

@@JohnMicius if I was a parasite and my host ate lots of garlic, I would be soooo happy.

[@Phantom-bh5ru]

@@aprinnyonbreak1290garlic kills parasites

[@brx1921]

@@aprinnyonbreak1290hehehe your funny

[@Arbiter55555]

The twist at the end floored me not gonna lie lmao. Great obeservation. In more contemporary studies that mirror this, look at fit men from the 1960s and 70s before bodybuilding- particularly Rhodesian RLI. You will notice very thin, lithe dudes built for mobility and strength, even carrying 30 pound FN Machine guns on foot. This to me is a much better indicator of how a man at arms or knight may have looked. Also for diet, it makes sense as well. From what I've seen, Knightly class individuals would generally eat only a single large meal at dinner or supper, as more was considered uncharitable and glutonous, and the medieval Catholic world was no stranger to regular fasting. Fitness people today talk a lot about fasting in relation to weight loss, so again, it's no surprise they would be slim, as bodybuilding requires a HUGE surplus of calories to bulk and gain such size- a technique which wasn't even considered until the very late 1800s.

[@bluegent7]

Huge stones preserved in Scandinavian museums, which lifting was a test of mandom, together with knowledge of working conditions like daily hours and chores in agriculture, seems to hint to that men were both expected to be and were strong and enduring. That doesn't tell anything about body shape. It differed, though, but I've seen many slender men in my life that had a great, hard manual labour capacity. Yes, I'm pretty old. In my youth I knew those born in the 18 hundreds. Things have changed...

[@shivermetimbers9908]

So essentially they didn’t have the modern concept of bulking. They trained the skills they needed and as a result they grew strong, just not necessarily large.

[@KartarNighthawk]

I've got some Crusader era sources that try to describe Sudanese soldiers in Fatimid and Ayyubid Egyptian service in almost orcish terms, and one of the things that gets emphasized is how much taller and more muscular they were than the Europeans and how freakish that was. Generally speaking , if a society respects a look, they don't try to slap it onto enemies whom they're trying to depict as borderline sideshow escapees.

[@a.cameron207]

A question for the ages lol, but I am going for not skinny but lean. My guess would be the core to arm muscle size ratio would be a lot more core friendly than modern day depictions. Also, the bicep to forearm ratio would look more like a climber and less like a strongman.

[@dawoifee]

Roman Gladiators also often lacked Armor, so body fat and Muscles were usefull padding.

[@Dinobot-k2x]

In polynesia we valued huge bodies. Some of the greatest war chiefs where 7ft. We also ate alot of fish, birds, and root vegies. One story from my area is our war cheif upper cut a guy and killed him. He also used a missionaries guts to fertilise his peach tree that still grows today.

[@CheDCanal]

what's interesting is that all those bodybuilders at some point have to avoid cardio exercises or exercises with many repetitions cause it causes muscles to shrink.

[@andrewfoster1210]

You can build muscle strength without adding more mass it's called muscle density. 3 sets of 10 on nearly heavy weight (not maxing out but reasonably heave) will build size. Lots of sets and reps of medium weight or something like 100-200 push ups a day increases muscle density.

[@DaenaMichelle]

So basically knights were more dextrous and agile while the bulky buff guy would be a Gladiator. Well, it makes sense.

[@darthplagueis13]

I've once heard (no idea if true or not) that roman gladiators would often want to have some extra weight since they usually weren't fully armoured in the arena and that way, there was a higher likelyhood for them to only suffer superficial (albeit impressive looking) wounds if they got hit and a reduced risk of actually suffering serious injuries.

[@kommissarkillemall2848]

I think The Metatron had an item about this.

[@logansomething]

This is a total aside but I do really love that canonically Link in BoTW and ToTK is a short little dude. Just makes me happy.

[@Usammityduzntafraidofanythin]

I like to think of the Strength score in a game like D&D as referring to the character's genetic disposition to become strong, rather than how strong they are in the moment. In training for an adventure, they gain a lot more muscle mass than a character with a lower score.

[@edthewave]

So I guess a good modern substitute for knight physical training could be something like Crossfit? Cardiovascular training for stamina and endurance combined with high rep weights with lots of bodyweight routines.

[@Cruxador]

Regarding the Greeks, there are period opinions from a general whose name I don't now recall, saying that athletes make poor soldiers because their bodies are unsuitable. In particular, that they are unaccustomed to having limited rations and can't function well in that situation.

[@timbarth7850]

It was really necessary to to talk about that missconception. Thank you for that video. And you don't need to be so negativ about your shape. I think you're doing well skal.

[@richardmiller1345]

Man! I concur..I have been a “History rein-actor”, I believe is the term. Due to the Cardiovascular effort needed to fight in plate and chain..As I was at the time a Infantry Corporal. And was involved in a few real time “Two way rifle range” shield walls as a peace keeper is called to do. “Big Riggs suffer from gravity” was our catch cry. “Back in the day”.

[@richardmiller1345]

Moreover. The “Man at arms” and “ Marine” where types of combatants Known as “Burly beasts” muscle is still seen as primitive or stereotypically stupid…big dumb brute.

[@paulbrooks4395]

Watching videos of climbers vs body builders in a lot of comparative athletics shows that the body builders are slower and much less flexible than the shorter, more slender climbers. This is likely due to the square-cube law and that more muscle on humans is largely offset by the weight, particularly when running, jumping, and quick movements are concerned. It’s simple physics, where a proportional increase in mass also makes it harder to start, stop, and change directions. Also, the mass of metal is far greater per unit of volume, and I would suspect that a knight over 6 ft would be far more burdened by his armor than someone just 6 inches shorter. Again, because of the square cube law.

[@quint3ssent1a]

The thing is, most people back in the day were manlets. Good nutrition during early life allowed modern man to grow and be tall. It's usually not told in historical sources because no one mentioned that "we were five feet tall", but some historical buildings today look very cramped because of the low ceilings. Same with knight's armor: it was made to fit the particular knight, and so it shows that people were shorter.

[@jamiemohan2049]

It is mainly hormones that are put into food that make people so big. This is why americans and scandinavians have such high cancer rates. 5'7 is the average male height globally and is basically the default male height in history. Take out the hormones and our youth would shrink. There is evolutionary reasons for this. Short stature normally means healthy overall, less likely to die from wounds or diseases. This is why men like smaller women. Men are only attracted to traits that indicate youth and fertility. Now not everyone would be small if you take out hormones. But they would likely be about 3 to 7 inches shorter.

[@harrisoctavius]

There are definitely a few suits of armour in the Wallace collection that had me go: damn you smol boy

[@DistractedChiroptera]

On the topic of effigies, the Tomb of Earl William Marshal is another good example. Marshal was regarded as being particularly strong among other knights. Yet the effigy on his tomb is far from a hulking he-man.

[@Digganob590]

I suppose what you have to consider is that people in medieval times didn't pump iron. They either worked, or did specific combat training. Both would develop endurance maximum lift strength, as well as explosive strength in the latter. But there aren't that many labors which would result in absolutely massive muscles. Blacksmithing is one of the exceptions, which is why blacksmiths are always depicted with fuck-off MASSIVE arms and upper body, because their work demanded similar muscular work that body building training does nowadays.

[@christiancabiles8498]

Maybe intestinal parasites or other forms of parasite is another factor for them having lean physiques? Heard it's so prevalent at the time doubt even nobles or higher classes don't have them.

[@theiyrosthenes1639]

This makes a lot of sense. It wouldn’t benefit a knight to be the size of a bodybuilder. While they’d certainly be strong, they wouldn’t have the conditioning, flexibility, and stamina that is required of a warrior that is active throughout the day. Look at mma fighters, they could look really thin and they’d still beat every bodybuilder around their weight

[@Spacewolf5]

I'm 5'7 and 160ibs, when I went to Europe for a summer vacation I went to several castles and museums. I was quite surprised to see that 80% of the complete suits of armor were made for people roughly my size. And then right next to that suit of armor would be a six foot claymore or two handed Long sword. Those guys must have been fit AF to run around. Im that armor swinging those things around on the battlefield.

[@skeletorlikespotatoes7846]

Skull reconstructions also show large insertions in the neck, and very broad jaws, etc

[@IC-xk4gi]

A willing man in shape from today would fare a LOT better than previously thought if sent back with *most* medieval knights being skinny manlets. A single competent boxer could become a real life Fight Knight. Now I want to play that game again.

[@ambientsky9660]

I think the physiques of the greek statues were based on wrestlers at the time rather than soldiers, where size and strength are important to become successful and many would have celebrity status. Soldiers/knights do require a minimum standard of strength to carry out their duties, but too much size means more food needs to be transported on campaign straining logistics and you are a larger burden on your team if you become a casualty. This isn't an issue for wealthy successful wrestlers where being both heavier and stronger than your opponent grants you significant advantage.

[@anon4854]

Which kind of indicates the decisive factor on muscle size was nutrition. So, most knights would have probably been larger and have decently sized muscles.

[@Juggerkaninchen]

As a historian I have to say: Well researched and interpreted!

[@angrybajur]

7:46 Why is the armor mannequin so cheeked up

[@jenHry-ng3pw]

There were times when BMI 25 was considered borderline overweight. It is not that long time ago. Now it is called weak or skiny. Poeple think knights looked like Arnold in barbar Conan. But there were no steroids, no processed food. It is difficult to be massive on real food. Especially when you move a lot and they had no reason why to sit because they couldn't even read.

[@Endru85x]

Yep, people in general tend to move smaller distances than in the past days. We got proccesed food, but also proteins shakes etc. diets, all of know how what causes muscle to grow Also, people back then used to have worms, they did not have the knowledge/medicine as we do to get rid of the parasites. Drinking alcohol could have been better than drinking water because of that :) I also think people have no idea how getting injured could cause a muscle loss and limit your mobility and quality of life.

[@DaveSpaceman]

Yk some might find this reality of knights to be disappointing, but honestly I think it makes it more inspiring seeing how these knights were no bigger and built than your average man, with physical training ofc.

[@blindoutlaw]

Knights, fit but slender CrossFit bodies. Archers, massive chest, arm and back muscles like a bodybuilder

[@aldenhaverfield655]

Don't forget having to go up and down stairs all the time! Castles had a lot of stairs and ladders were used in breaking sieges!

[@Starless85]

Some people have the gene problem where they don’t produce myostatin (the hormone that makes you stop adding muscle) so you could imagine that once in a while, or in certain populations, you’d get really above average people in terms of muscle. Then there’d be stories about them, kinda like Samson. It would happen but would be very rare, and because of its novelty tales of the persons size and abilities would get blown waaaaaay out of proportion (like Samson lol)

[@dirtpoorchris]

They called it "Hercules syndrome" in the past. Some super rare genetic lottery people have concrete muscles and barely even have to workout. But I think its something more like a genetic fluke than something that can be passed down.

[@charlievane66]

That was a pretty interesting video, debunking a commom historical misconception with images and artefacts fom the medieval era, congrats, I would like to see more videos like this, keep up the good work

[@alpaga4820]

Also gladiators were probably a lot better fed than most people in ancient Rome or the medieval period, which is obviously crucial for building body mass.

[@ballistic2527]

Me, with a small hip and long arms but with a fat, protruding belly: You know, I'm something of a warrior myself

[@hanchiman]

Most of the samurai during Sengoku period were around 5 foot tall, famous warriors like Honda Tadatakstu was slightly above 5ft.

[@maximusjoseppi5904]

how many professional athletes in physical contact sports are small? none. how many could pass as bodybuilders? almost all of them. there's a huge difference between a natural bodybuilder and a professional bodybuilder. if we were instantly relegated to knightly combat again, people who play professional contact sports and that sort of body type would win. that is a very muscular, very strong, tall man with extensive stamina. natural bodybuilders fall under that category. in every martial art, strength and size have a large impact on the outcome, this is why we have weight classes or when we dont theres no small people at the top. back in medieval times, they didnt know how to min/max like we do today... today's top tier knight would be much different and more effective than yesterday's.

[@ironhelix306]

If i recall my work out from highschool. More reps with lighter weights and stretching after a workout will give you strength, but not alot of mass. You tear the muscles in small amounts and it will repair in smaller layers. You'll gain endurance, strength but not the size. If done right. You'll be just as strong (or stronger) as someone who bulks up but be like 1/3rd the size. It is why some guys will look normal or maybe toned but be as strong as a guy who has focused on making muscles bigger. They do this by lifting reps and heavier weights. This makes bigger tears in the muscle which causes larger muscle repair but not be more muscle than the guy doing smaller reps. It has to do with the way the muscle repair layers itself. That is the way it was explained to me and im also forgetting some terminology. It was a long time ago lol.

[@jamesgoodman186]

Unlike what some modern "alpha male" gurus would have you believe, we didn't exactly go around wrestling mammoths with our bare hands on a regular basis. The human body is designed, above everything else, to run. Humans are one of the best, if not the best, long distance runners on the planet and our hunting strategy revolved around chasing down prey to the point of exhaustion. There's a reason you don't see big muscle guys in hunter gather tribes or winning marathons. More muscle means more energy is expended when moving. The modern body builder is only possible today because of an abundance of food, nutritional science and a lower amount of other activity being expended throughout the day.

[@bigfella2278]

I love how you tried to keep your hands still but they just wanted to move so bad 😂

[@emmarina3525]

I think the speaking without hands thing is more cultural. Since it was originally written in Arabic, back then, Arabs were all mostly scholars, they valued speaking calmly and elegantly, which is why they held the belief that foolish or ignorant people tended to speak loudly or in a more animated way, which was considered rude and unceremonious among scholars, and still is

[@Asertix357]

The smaller the knights you employ, the further you can stretch your available supply of steel for producing armor. It's a lot more cost-effective.

[@gabrielseth5142]

There are a lot of factors that go into attaining a top level, elite physique that we see in body building and with what the Greek ideal physique was. You have to eat very well: there is a certain amount of calories you have to eat in a day to maintain your weight and that number increases the heavier you get. There is also a balancing of nutrients such as protein, fats and carbohydrates that we now scientifically know is required for building muscle and strength. There also is sleep quality involved with attaining a good physique. I can tell you, the diets of people in medieval history and before was not optimized to look like Hercules and I doubt many men, even if they knew what they were doing, could eat that well. If youre 180 lbs. You need about 180g of protein, about 280-300 in carbs and about 80 in fats, this of course varies but thats the ball park youre looking at. You have to make an active effort to make it to that level of protein intake in itself in one day. But this is not to say that elite physiques were unattainable and that it impedes ones ability to be strong, because there is a very, VERY big difference between strength and physique training and what can be done. I think if medieval knights were doing a fair bit of cardio i.e. walking everywhere, including swimming and running into their training, and they were including strength and practic training into their regimen, ye this is probably how they'd look, they're probably strong as shit, their grip strength was probably something ridiculous. The human body finds the best ways to adapt to certain environments and the best adaptation to practical stresses is almost never going to look like Arnold Schwarzenegger, even if they had PED's. I also wouldn't doubt that this training was very effective and very, VERY beneficial. We have accounts of how long some battles or tournaments have lasted in the middle ages and damn can they fight! Even half an hour of fighting is impressive, a lot of the time they were just battering each other for hours on end. Watch some of these medieval sports of youtube and these guys are passing out after 5-10 minutes of mild back and forth, after their bouts they just look whiped. I dont imagine these guys are just LARPing either, they all look like they work out, but it just absolutely kills them

[@Rodclutcher]

Good video Skall!

[@vonrelevanz1963]

Considering martial artists are normally on the skinny side, this makes sense. Combat in armor asks for high endurance first.

[@jasonguest5820]

I feel like the narrow waist on the armor is so that the weight of the plates rests on the top of the hips and not just entirely on the shoulders.

[@doug4974]

People have different body types. I imagine fighters train for functionality and stamina. If you lean out or bulk up, it wasn't about aesthetics as much as performance. But of course, then as now, fashion was also important and I'm sure had some influence on presentation to some degree.

[@dgriswold93]

Small clarification, 173.4 cm is over 5'8", not 5'6"-5'7". So they were actually even far closer to todays average height than you pointed out. Thanks

[@vytas5584]

What a great video topic. Love to see more of these physique discussions. Maybe from other non European cultures too!

[@Mentesestoicas_]

All a kingdom needs is 50k good, skinny, not very hungry, good with spears and at least basic lvl in bow and arrow, army. This way they get the biggest amount of spear per m2 of iron for armor (if any armor).

[@emilbordon1329]

A friend of a guy I met at a local hardware store, I say local but it’s still a bit of a drive and I probably wouldn’t bother going at all if I had to use public transportation, told me that he’d actually tried on a full set of armour! When he was much younger he’d accidentally hidden in the bog of a museum until everyone had gone home then he’d crept out of the stall and had a go with all the old stuff lying about he could access without smashing glass. He was a fat bloke with a cheesy kind of odour but he might have been a lot thinner at the time of his committing this, presumably, criminal act.

[@biobomb93]

What many people fail to understand is that being fit for war is a very different thing than working out for esthetics, yes you can be big and strong, but if you are not conditioned to be quick, wield swords and pikes for hours of battle, go to long marches you are not going to be a good warrior. Another thing to be mentioned is that a very muscular guy would need to eat more, and this would mean higher needs in terms of supplies and calories per day for every soldier.

[@jameswatson7246]

When I went LARPing for the first time, my calves were burning.

[@jounikorhonen9441]

LOL. I visited a castle somewhere here in Finland that had full-body plate-armours. I thought they were made for children! The squirrels that wore those couldn't have been taller than 150cm and 50kg or so.

[@josephmeador1529]

I read an article a few years ago that did a study and estimated that the average European knight was significantly taller than the average male of the time 6 ft vs 5'4". Most likely due to better nutrition.

[@kompatybilijny9348]

When I describe knight/proffesional melee soldier physique I say "No steroids MMA fighter". Not obscenely large muscles like bodybuilders, or gutsacks like strongmen. Just very efficient muscle mass meant for combat and exhausting activities. And you can't convince me that the average fighter was NOT at least somewhat plump. Prolonged combat is very exhausting and one of the easier ways to prolong your fighting capability is having more resources to work with.

[@MelancholyKnight]

Next time someone tells me that I'm too skinny, I'll just tell them that I have a knightly figure.

[@nullshock3381]

I was thinking "Hey Link is actually...wait Skall said who? ...Ha!" ...yep.

[@laciihasz4734]

visited a castle of a famous hungarian knight who was well known for his strength, his name is Kinizsi Pal, his armour and real life statue is on display in the castle. The guy was about average height and medium built, i stood behind the brestplate and it would not fit me, to size comparison i am 179cm and 98kg, this knight was slightly shorter than me and had a much thinner body shape.

[@negljbreakergaming]

Making this comment before watching all of the video, but to the question in the title I want to say "yes". I feel like you'd find all these types in knights because knights are a large group of people.

[@snapgab]

Obviously warriors were fit, but their fitness generally came from calisthenics, for the most part it didn't come from weightlifting or anything but rather from actually just doing the thing they're supposed to be doing. Sparring, practicing sword forms, etc. So it's a very different kind of physique than muscular people of today, who do far more exercizes purely meant for growing muscles instead of practical exercises that automatically result in you becoming muscular enough to do the things you're practicing. In the past it would be more like: Swing a sword until you're strong enough to do so effortlessly. Wear full armor and march in formation until you're strong enough to do so effortlessly, etc. If all you need is to have enough muscle to do specific things, then you don't really need to bother with weights, just doing those things is already the perfect exercise for growing the muscles that are needed. And once you have the muscles needed it just becomes a cardio exersize from there, no more weight is added so your muscles also stop growing.

[@lXBlackWolfXl]

One thing that I think needs to be said is that not all the armors we see today were actually meant for combat. Nobles liked to have artsy suits of armor made for them just as a showpiece. They never intended to actually use them, they would just put them on a mannequin and use them as a conversation starter. A major selling point of them WAS they that COULD be used in combat, though in reality this normally wasn't the case. A good example of this is the gauntlets with individual fingers. It looks better, but as you demonstrated in a video yourself years ago they actually aren't very practical. Either way, these super artsy suits of armor wouldn't have been easy to mass produce, so there's that too. Point is, a lot of these armors may never have been fitted to an actual person. Henry's armor in particular I would guess probably didn't see much if any actual use. There must be a reason why its so pristine. Why are there no dents on it from people hitting him? What not the other armors? Most likely most if not all the armors you show here were actually showpieces and NOT something a person actually wore. I would guess Henry wore his though. Given his backstory some other people here have stated here, I would guess he had the thing made mainly for nostalgic purposes. Surely then he would have put the thing on at least once (he did go through the trouble of requesting that it be made to actually fit him), though still I would be surprised if he seriously made use of it.

[@TheRealDangerFrank]

Man that pond had a lot of frogs.

[@CSGraves]

Plutarch commented that the Spartans preferred tall and slender warriors... their ideal might have been more akin to the average Tutsi in stature than to the actors on a Crossfit regimen so popular in the modern interpretations. He also comments that the bulkier, more muscled body type, which he likens to a wrestler, is inherently higher maintenance, and less suitable to the privations or war.

[@DjalmaThuran]

A real life knight would be lean and muscular without being bulky, but a fictional knight from a magical world could be able to enhance his or her body physique magically. For example in Mushoku Tensei (yeah it had to be an anime) the warriors have some kind of skill that uses mana to empower their bodies to move faster and strike harder instead of launching spells with their mana.

[@jarongreen5480]

Even if you look at pictures of early 1900s strong men they are more thin waisted with more broad shoulders and chests rather than the units we see today.

[@isaacnikolic5895]

There's also the question of physical standards of male physique which change over time. If you're drawing knights for a battle in 2023, they're Arnold Schwarzenegger. If you're drawing knights in 1300, and the standard for men is to be skinny at the waist, then you draw it that way. The point here is that if our modern depictions of body type are wrong, the primary source depictions could also be wrong for the exact same reason. However, given that knights had the time and money to train and their standard of male fitness was that of a skinnier build, perhaps many of them actually did look that way because they trained to look that way.

[@titusarnklint8581]

Small fact: Smough from Dark Souls is not as large as his suit suggest, but is rather skinny and a bit shorter without the suit. But you already knew that.

[@sloesty]

Little late, but big calves is normal for that time because they didnt wear shoes with a heel raise, this makes the foot muscles and calve work more. I started wearing minimal shoes and my calves are huge now (i also run in them)

[@amanofnoreputation2164]

The statues are life-like, but to say that real people must have looked like them to serve as inspiration does a disservice to the ingenuity of artists from the time: their understanding didn't end at capturing imposing and beautiful physiques. They also knew how to exaggerate their figures while maintaining the illusion of realism.

[@jungoder1085]

Those effigies were specifically made to look as accurate to the person they’re depicting as they could get I mean you can literally line up historical armour pieces with the people they were for and they’re 1 to 1 From what I remember when I looked into this stuff it was very taboo and seen as a very bad thing to have them not be like the person Also fun thing to go with this tobias capwell managed to use them to piece together the English style of armour and it’s evolution over the 15th c specifically because of all this

[@googleandsusansucks]

I always had some doubts about the cope about the surviving armour pieces "No, you see people were smaller back in the day". Humans were not midgets 1000 years ago.

[@cruise_missile8387]

Look at soldiers from WWI and WWII. Knights probably weren't all that different physically.

[@Sqwallbg]

Now how did all of that culminate in "Link is a perfect knight by medieval standards" remains a mystery to me but good points non the less :) In any event there is no real reason why knights would even try to pursue a muscle-bound hulk physique - they weren't for show, they were warriors and that means they had to fight for extended periods of time and such a big body is not suited for that. Such a body is good for quick victories - not war. I have seen such people in boxing for instance, had fights with some - one was like 30-40% heavier than me but couldn't win fast and after about 10-15 minutes he just got tired - couldn't catch his breath. Now you might say that in the heavy bracket of professional boxing those guys could end fighting for much longer than what i described. Well...yes and no - they do but you must consider there are rounds and both fighters get a little break after each - that accounts for a lot. Much more lean physique like Bruce Lee (as you pointed out) is much more suitable for the unknown amount of time one has to fight in a war rather than an arena or 1v1 fight that are generally short.

[@Mubgoo]

Quite acceptable pronounciation of Le Maingre. It means "the skinny" which is quite à propos (not a nickname though, it's his family name).

[@ricwalker6600]

another reason why gladiators were bulkier was, that they could receive more cuts without a serious injury. a one inch deep laceration on a skinny guys Upper arm might go down to the bone already. but on the bulky gladiator? that will be mostly fat and muscle and still leave meat until the bone. so a cut looks deep and nasty, but maybe an otherwise dangerous cut might be not so dangerous with this little extra layer of mass.

[@grantlauzon5237]

Gladiators didn’t need to march to battle. They wouldn’t have had to worry about rations. Maybe that could be another reason they were more muscular than middle age knights.

[@michaeljames4854]

After body building for almost twenty years I wanted to have a change and go into power lifting just to see how far I could push myself,we only here once right.and I found that changing my eating and training patterns gave me greater strength and lifting ability but in fact the bulky shape I had in bodybuilding smoothed out and my body mass actually went down as my strength increased.

[@O-D-X]

I wonder how many of the viewers who espouse giant body builder type knights have done either of those things ... In my 20s and early 30s, I did both. Let me tell you a body builder physique is not conducive to good sword fighting. To get as bulky as modern day body builders, flexibility is lost, and that is far more important than muscle mass. Strength and stamina conditioning would have been the most likely training regimen. Also as a sidenote: the most naturally gifted sword fighter I ever faced was about 6'4", maybe 200 lbs with long legs and arms. He wasn't super strong, but was lightning quick with an incredible reach advantage. Now he wasn't nearly as skilled as my friend and I, but we both had to bring an 'A' game to beat his natural advantages.

[@Garblegox]

8:39 Conan O'Brien is a time traveler confirmed.

[@c.stoddard313]

The Golden Lion would call this a heresy...

[@KyleTremblayTitularKtrey]

Mass vs strength. Basically only train for strength and mass trains are waterballoons

[@thurstt9158]

How the military trains is similar to knights probably because it’s practical

[@littlebigheroman]

Muscle mass is for jerks, muscle tone is for work. 💪

[@greyhat7993]

Historical knight armor was typically made for more leaner-muscled men. Must be why broad, bulky barbarians are mostly naked.