Skid Flip vs. Continuation - What's the Deal? -

It's #MoMonday!
This week, Phil discusses the difference between skid-flip ball motion and a continuous ball motion. This often subtle difference can be the difference you see as the ball rolls down the lane and how it goes through the pins.
Leave your comments and questions below!
#WOWThatsRadical #RadicalRevolution

[@troym72]

I keep balls that do both in my arsenal and here's why. Some houses I bowl have very old/hard synthetic surface where the backend reaction is weaker. With a smoother/continuation ball, I tend to leave more corner pins (mostly the 10-pin) in these houses. If I see the weak 10 a couple times in practice and know that I made a good shot, I switch to a more skid/flip ball to get the stronger backend and larger entry angle to carry the 10-pin. It takes a keen eye to see your ball going through the pins and know what ball adjustment to make. You can watch the 6-pin usually and know exactly what to do. If the 6-pin is just falling into the gutter and not hitting the 10, that's a weak reaction and switching to a ball with stronger backend (more skid/flip design) will usually fix this - for me. I'm sure there are many strategies for adjusting to the weak 10, but mine is to go to a more skid/flip ball for that stronger backend reaction. Likewise, in houses with strong backends, I tend to go with a smoother/continuation type ball to control the backend so I'm not getting over/under which can be created by a skid/flip ball on a lane that has plenty of backend already. I can tell if my ball is too skid/flip for the lane condition if I am leaving a single pins like the 4-pin and 9-pin in practice.

[@BigSkyBowler]

A great follow-up video to this would be: When to use the different reactions. Tonight I was in a skid/flip ball far too long and kept leaving 10 pins.. I kept trying to get the ball to go through the pins correctly with my hand but it just was not working. I finally switched to a more continuous reaction ball in my last game and instantly shot a 230.

[@justinc5998]

A lot of good information in this video. I guess the logical question to follow is when or what lane conditions would be more conducive to the skid/flip motion of a Results + over the more continuous motion of an Incognito Pearl and vise versa. Thanks guys!!

[@iceman5117]

It depends on where the break point is. On a wetter, longer pattern, you'll need more traction and more continuation to get into the pocket. Your skid-flip ball will come off the point too long and either wash out and miss the pocket, or come in steep to leave 10's. Once the lanes get really dry you may end up with the opposite issue, where the skid flip ball is coming in heavy or burning energy on the turn, leaving splits. Often times the move is to start with a high hooking, round, assym solid, followed by a skid-flip pearl or hybrid asymm, then back to a weaker symmetrical solid or urethane when the lanes get burnt

[@jasontom7278]

Can you do a quick video about this with regards to layouts? Pin distances and VAL angles that help create each motion....

[@BigSkyBowler]

Generally speaking, VAL angles that are 20 or less will result in a flip reaction on the ball. Especially if the drilling angle is higher, usually in the 70 or more range. A normal skid flip reaction layout would be 70 x 4 x 20. If you wanted even more skid, you could go 70 x 5 x 20 but then you risk the ball rolling too forward as the core is now standing more verticle. Something like the second layout becomes useful for controlling the pocket on burned lanes, however. Once you start getting that VAL angle past 30 degrees, it changes from a flip to more continuation. Once your closer to 50 or more, then you get into an arc reaction. This can vary as well depending on the bowler's PAP. For me personally, anything less than 30 degrees results in a flip. Anything between 30 and 50 results in a more continuous arc motion and anything past 60 results in a smooth motion.

[@StephRenee812]

​@BigSkyBowler thank you. I'm glad I read people's comments becsuee I thought I understood but don't. So for a 20 degree tilt and lower rotation what would be best layouts for me. I've been working on trying to get my rotation up and tilt down but it's hard. I noticed when I shortend my span becsuse the drillers drilled all mine stretched I can get under the ball mlre instead of being ontop of it resulting in a more forward rolling ball. I'm struggling sith layouts now to help and surface has been a game changer but I know having a layouts for for me woukd help too. My pap changes from 4½ over x ¼ down to 4¾ over sometimes . Here the last couple times I'm getting it at 5 over. No mkre than that though on my pap

[@flippperboy]

Thank you for explaining the int. diff and it’s effect on ball motion. Love my intel pearl during transition. Skid flip on that ball. My results solid has the continuation motion but needs oil. My bonus has also a continuous motion but I use it fresh short patterns or when the lane is breaking down on the track area and I need to move left.

[@mirovaligura]

Hi Phil can you make a video with visual e.g. how to read a ball motion. Especially where to look and how violent the reaction is/should be to call it skid-flip or cont. motion

[@charlesgerlach7059]

continuation is my choice always has been, skid flip is to inconsitiatant for my ball speed. yea. 1st one :)

[@atbsigma]

Good to see Mo’s legacy live on through you, Phil! I’m curious if symmetric balls can be skid flippy as long as their diffs are in the high .040s or so. This would match what I’ve seen from some pearlized symmetric balls out on the lane.

[@CDRFAR]

I bought the Results + and drilled it 65x5x40 for lanes that have mixed results(more continuation and more hook). The Results + allows me to adjust to either condition. I also have a Prism Hybrid and Phantom in my arsenal. Love the Results + and will look into the Radical line more when it is time to replace my Brunswick balls.

[@iceman5117]

Radical is Brunswick

[@johnniec2861]

i always tell my daughter its the shape of a hockey stick vs a Banana :)

[@anthonygomes3751]

My speed is avg 13 (reduced it bcos of my lumbar pain issues), rev rate around 225 rpm, PAP is 5 & 7/8Up. Can you please suggest a strong Skid-Flip layout and a strong Continous layout - both for heavy oil pattern? Can I continue with the same layout for drier oil patterns but with weaker ball? I recently drilled one of my balls as 75-4-25 and although it is good but still not satisfied with the same. Not very sure about my axis tilt but my oil tracks touch the thumb hole...high tracks. Please help....Thanks.

[@TraumaER]

I hate skid/flip and all my stuff is drilled away from that type of reaction. Bowled 686 last week with continuation balls.

[@user-yw7qc2ps9p]

Is Layout C or D in the Symmetric Drilling Chart arc type? And the lower the value of Int diff is, the more arc type is it? My question may not be delivered properly because I used a translator.

[@Cinemashow777]

Phil, quick question: I’ve always been a big fan of your Dyno-Thane Red Vendetta. Which, if any, Radical ball is similar to that? I hope some of that magnificent Dyno-Thane DNA made it into a Radical ball or two. BTW, you’re doing Mo proud with Mo Monday ... great job buddy. I continue to learn a lot. Both you and Mo are, and always will be, crucial cornerstones of the world’s bowling industry.

[@burgerking9587]

When do you use skid flip?

[@charlesgerlach7059]

I had to realearn some. bowled on 42-44 feet of oils for house shots for past 25 yrs in Mass before that was woooden short oils. Here in NC l bowl and the pattern is 37 foot house.. all my stuff l had from the longer oil l cant use love continous look thru the pocket but have to really move right since l am a lefty. Have a conspiracy theory drilled to tame it down but l am starting on like 30 on the right and sending it out to 8 on the break. sometimes works sometimes doenst, need something an a recommmended drilling to move left some so l dont have to swing it as much. older guy here so l dont have the power l used too. Have a ridiculous ASYM and a OG Guru l cant use down here love radical since it came out and always been a brunswick guy

[@Dortiz116]

Bonus or Counter Attack

[@MNohrLarsen]

When would you prefer to use skid flip instead of more rolling drilling/balls. I'm aware it depends on the speed of the bowler too.

[@iceman5117]

Either when you need to play far inside and get the ball to bang off the end of the pattern, or when you need to play wide and have the ball cover boards downlane. As you move left, continuous balls are going to run out of steam and flat 10 all day The pba shark championship demonstrated the usefulness of skid-flip, where Sam Cooley started out with a roto grip exotic gem, spi's flippiest ball, letting it float over the oil well inside and relying on the explosive downlane flip to pull through the pocket

[@grahamsbravati813]

If the skid flip is to angular in the pocket, and you are leaving splits, how to fix this?.. should do a video on altering that surface and get better roll in the pocket.

[@jhonviel7381]

imo just get another ball to deal with that.

[@AverageLeagueHack]

Add surface to get more mid lane friction and less in the back end. May leave corners if it rolls out too early but better than a split

[@annpanetta5229]

I throw a straight back up ball, I just bought a Raw pearl for lightly oiled lanes, after watching your video, I think I may have made a mistake. Help

[@fukRiaa]

IMO Phil has always kind of been a wiz with continuation symmetric cores. Think the Vendettas, OG Triton Elite, etc. Bit of a hot taek but I think Radical's best stuff at least on house is their lower key benchmark symmetrical core stuff like the Intel, Cyclops, Bonus, Counter Attack Solid, Squatch Hybrid etc. Don't get me wrong Radical has had some amazing asym stuff too like Katana and OG Conspiracy but just match up with their sym cores every time which is kind of what Phil is famous for.

[@nordattack]

Mo and Phil are both left handed. It makes sense now.

[@grandmasteryoda9893]

how do the radical incognito to the black widow 2.0?

[@Pomdaddy]

Is one more suited to Asymmetrical or Symmetrical?

[@iceman5117]

Asymmetrical is usually more skid-flippy until you get into high rg pearls. The new motiv supra rally and sky raptor are both very Flippy for symmetrical balls

[@ricerocket702]

In the videos of the 2 different balls you presented...the SKID-FLIP ball appeared to be more of a Continuous ball motion. And the Continous ball video looked like the ball went down the lane and hit a rock causing it to make a sharp left turn. It's almost like you have the videos backwards. The 70x3.5x20 ball did not look like a hockey stick motion

[@RadicalBowling]

They both have the same layout. Pay closer attention to how they continue through the pins. Skid-Flip quicker response, shorter hook window, more forward roll through the pins. Continuous, slower response, longer hook window, maintains axis rotation and continues through the pins.

[@Ezi0AuditoreDiFirenz]

So skip flip balls tend to lose energy before they hit the pins?

[@iceman5117]

@@Ezi0AuditoreDiFirenz it depends, and it all comes down to how quickly you need the ball to use energy to turn. Asymmetry helps the ball to lay down faster. A Flippy asymm ball is going to spend energy quickly to change direction quickly. This is great when you're on high volume and need the ball to quickly turn at the deck, where a continuous ball will fail to recover and ring 10 or fail to pocket. On shorter patterns or lower volume, a Flippy ball will burn energy and roll out early, deflecting or leaving the flat 10

[@theshawn6611]

it's just not the same without Mo :'( and i was gonna meet him in April

[@theinsaneshecklador6598]

We've lost too many good people this last 12 months.

[@jeffladrillono2313]

Same. I was looking forward to seeing him in the summer, when I go back to the Virginia Beach area, to work out some fit issues. But it just wasn't meant to be.

[@Cinemashow777]

Phil’s doing a great job. I don’t think he’s trying to replace Mo, just keeping his spirit and the Radical tradition moving forward. Plus, there’s tons to learn from Phil. You can’t ask for anything more. And I’m sure Mo would’ve wanted it that way.