New Fascia Fitted, Water Pouring In. Answers Here

[@DC1youtube]

Hi Roger. My opinion is if new facia vent or vented sofit has been installed they have increased cold air volume at the eave but not installed a dry ventilated ridge system so the condensation has increased creating bigger water droplets falling in the cavity at the plate/ truss clip junction. Also they should have installed an eaves comb filler on top of the felt support tray to stop birds nesting as before. The fix to the issue is change the ridge to dry ventilated ridge or instal tile vents two courses down from the ridge spaced every few tiles.

[@Noaxe_Tegrinde]

Thanks. Your videos make a lot of sense to practical people. Just a little thank you.

[@SkillBuilder]

Thank you very much for your generosity, it helps us a lot.

[@coupsdestylo]

they've rammed the plastic tray in, It looks like they've gone under the existing perishing felt, reckon they've torn whats left of that felt under the last row of tiles.

[@chapman9230]

I wonder if the simply pushed the eves support tray up causing it to ruck up the felt or maybe causing holes or riding up over the felt even.

[@soylentgreen326]

The brown felt board looks waterlogged could be wicking as well as Eve’s tray not shedding into the gutters. ❤

[@chapman9230]

I am sure the use of fillets and maybe plywood underneath will be useful. However, why not strip back as well the bottom couple of rows and put in new membrane and make sure it is properly laid over the eaves support tray and under the upper felt. I am not convinced that water pooling at the front will go as far back as the inner leaf of the wall. I am boldly assuming it is a cavity wall which looking at the felt in the picture may be wrong! I had a well reviewed company in to do my roofline .They made loads of mistakes. They got very annoyed when I used the manufacturers own guides to illustrate where they had gone wrong. I had to produce 11 pages of information photos etc to justify my points. Took me three days to type it up. They came back and re did it but were quite obnoxious. I think a lady would have found it quite an intimidating attitude. I did. Still finding nails in my garden many years later. I wish I had done the job myself, it would have been less hassle nd a better result. Presently, trying to get new valleys fitted at my mums house. Finding a tradesman to carry it out is becoming another nightmare. So I will have to do it myself. All I want to do is give money to someone to do the job properly. I would be delighted to do so. My time I want to spend doing other things. However, it does not happen like that in my experience even when using Checkatrade, checking reviews etc to filter.

[@chrismarsh3933]

Thanks! Very clear Roger. Im just about to get the softwood fascias etc replaced with PVC on my 32year old place and I’m now much more clued up. Sprocket - I’ve never ever heard that term used in any context other than mechanical rotating parts. You live and learn!

[@kennethwebb4385]

The fascia was too wide when first built Adding tile vent and e p s makes the first tile kick up and the existing felt not a good angle to drain New fascia needed all around to create a smooth tile line The finish fascia height should be the thickness of the lathe plus the thickness of the tile above the rafter

[@nedloh17]

Doesn't look like if you pulled those tiles fully down that there would be much if any overhang into the gutters. Might be getting some capillary action going back into the roof space

[@colinmiles1052]

Good luck Mrs (whoever you are) in getting this sorted. Great video Roger, as always.

[@davidbreslin1214]

Great explanation Roger, it's hard to tell people what's required to do a top rate job, now I can show these guys what needs to be done, thanks again, and keep up all excellent work you do, and how to do it, enjoyed the outside wrap you did, I haven't done one yet, but hopefully soon, 👍

[@PotatoesRnice]

You'd think if they were for hire they'd know what the f they're doing

[@janoginski5557]

@@PotatoesRnice Well said, but they very obviously don't, pretty much standard these Days. Pathetic really. No wonder the Trade gets bad reviews from Joe Public, people need to get bloody real, get genuine references from previous clients, do not to listen to the Bullshit from these sites that offer the Best Builder in your area, they ate not vetted or inspected, etc & definitely do not swallow references on Google, we undertook work for a total arsehole who littered his cobbled up a fiction of references, the half wit would troll his literary fiction & if a genuine reference came up he would respond by claiming he didn't know if this person. He ripped us off, his clients & Trade Suppliers. We are hunting the little insect down. I won't be giving an update when the thing is found. A disgusting little reptile.

[@seanbrown..brownsbuildings1424]

Must be another issue , for the water to be getting under there in the first place . ie broken tile

[@savetommyrobinsonfreespeec7660]

Just a heads up , a roofer fitted an eaves tray for me and nailed the tray to the rafters but it failed because the rafters were lower, hence the tray was tilting back towards the house! Nuts! All he had to do was put in some supports! Even I know that!

[@SkillBuilder]

yes that happens a lot

[@markmcgrath4853]

thats exactly what the problem is the plastic is tilting backwards in different parts ! the plastic is not wide enough to reach some of the pitched rafters ! the fitters probably realised this but fitted it like that anyway ! !

[@BarriosGroupie]

Yes, I think the tray isn't going far enough _under_ the roofing felt if you look more closely, possibly even going over it, despite it going under the brown stuff.

[@jamespratt6600]

As a roofer of 25 years I never use the eaves support trays. They are too narrow to give good fall into the gutter and the common mistake people make is to leave the felt up from the edge. They are only lapped and where there is a nominal fall such as in this case, the water on the trays will seep sideways. I prefer to use the 450mm 5u eaves felt and 9mm ply pending boards. If someone particularly wants to use these I would recommend also using the 5u and making sure it also drips into the gutter, then the felt well on to that. Basically these things are not watertight by themselves

[@chriscollins1704]

It's a problem with low pitch roofs, having a tall enough fascia to pitch up the bottom course of tiles but not having your felt level or catching moisture. Before I have put a shorter fascias, then put the felt tray on then put a modified fascia vent on top to kick the tile up.

[@jagracershoestring609]

I have an old roof that needs have replacement facia boards due to rotted wood fitted. My take on this is to remove two foot of tiles, then fit a run of painted plywood along the bottom two feet over the sprockets, when the new facia boards go on. Then put the plastic runners on overlapping the new felt into the new gutters. That should keep the water out, after replacing the tiles. I had a strawboard like that on my old extension flat roof, it was a wick under the felt. In your case, the plastic tray is on top of the felt, not under. Cowboy builder job, perhaps.

[@634949mike]

Are the leaks mainly at the corners of rooms? Do those corners have hipped end ridge roof tiles above.? If so the installers may have avoided disturbing those hips and left the pvc trays short, or cut them short of the timber hip leaving it unsupported so that the tray, when it sags, then acts as an unintentional gutter straight on top of the internal wall. Hipped ends are the hard part of this job due to complex angles involved and need to take off and remortar the hip tiles

[@mistervelux]

I reckon your right!

[@dermotkelly6946]

If the roof is trussed at 600 c/s put a horizontal nogging between each truss but don’t block the airflow , it helps with the plastic buckling and get a decent run off to the top of the facia and god for bid you may have to cut the facia to suit , also use a recommended sealer between the plastic trays at the joints 👍, good explanation from you Roger in my opinion 👍

[@SkillBuilder]

You are right about the 600 centres and the sealant. I prefer a continuous run of wide dpc to the trays but that needs support all the way with ply or cement board.

[@dermotkelly6946]

The ply is a good idea to stop the Troughing and was common many years ago as you know , but it certainly is good practise if no plastic is to be used , I find the DPC that we use now ( I don’t buy it ) won’t “ lay down “ into the gutter and of course the tile contours have a part to play , dampness , blow back and good old fog and mist in the winter can cause the ply to delaminate in time and that would play on my mind , you are a top tradesmen Roger don’t pack in just yet we need a few top men still around 👍

[@monkeyboy8424]

Dodgy roofers. This is where future cowboys serve their apprenticeship.

[@arpie2081]

Got a different roofing conundrum which I'd be interested to hear people's opinions on. Earlier in the year I contacted a roofing firm to look at condensation in the loft which I assumed was coming from inside the house during a particulalry cold snap, but also following a period of very heavy rain. The roofers proposed solution was to get the tiles (approx 40 years old) replaced as they would have become porous with age.. This surprised me slightly, and a quick Google search brought up a few results saying this is a myth perpetuated by roofers who just want to replace your roof - however I noticed that all the people who were saying it was a myth were also people who wanted to sell you their tiles in the first place... There seem to be no end of people local to me who are getting all their tiles replaced at the moment, so I would guess a lot of people agree with the sentiment. In fact this afternoon I picked up one of the discarded old tiles off one of the piles of waste next to one of these houses and intend to conduct a (very unscientific) experiment so see exactly how porous it is. But pending the results of this experiment, would be interested to hear people's opinions?

[@garybrown5500]

I would be very interested to see the results too as I have also been told this . I may try a test on a sample of tiles from my roof. I suppose the answer is to look under a couple when the rain has just finished.

[@The007Weasel]

@@garybrown5500 My 64 year old roof concrete roof tiles are showing signs of porosity; there's white watermarks on the undeside of some of them. But when it rains after a long spell of dry weather.....there's an awful long wait before the water starts appearing at the waterbutt, so the assumption is that the tiles are absorbing a lot of rain before it starts to run off.

[@garybrown5500]

@@The007Weasel That is a interesting point.

[@clivefox5072]

If this roof is above 22degrees, all it would need is 300mm ply strip fitted behind fascia, packed out level with fascia, fit a roll of 5u to the complete width of building, returning ends over, making sure the felt or membrane above is lapped over with no holes, the tiles look like a marley Mendip, do not fit any bird stop/eave combs because you would need to nail through 5u, making it useless, push tile up and use trowel of mortar and bed tile back down, only use mortar on profile section of tile, allowing water to pass by if required. Job done.

[@pauldavies5655]

bugger me -- i only been roofing for 40 years , and i don t know them big words ?

[@clivefox5072]

Same nearly, only 36 years of roofing, Works everytime

[@pauldavies5655]

@@clivefox5072 NOT the best video to show eave/gutter trays as the ones shown were far far smaller in length then the ones i personally use --- we use meter and a half length trays NOT the 15 inch trays he showed ! therefore there is no drips run offs or leakage etc because the overlap is perfectly adequate for the job . no need for ripped board under the first felt to fashia then.

[@clivefox5072]

How do you stop birds getting under tiles. Because you can't nail through eave tray to top of fascia

[@pauldavies5655]

@@clivefox5072 several ways to do that. 1/ use a brush comb siliconed in dots to first course, so water runs through. 2/ dont use mendips-- bold roll tiles etc with the larger profile. 3/ use a sponge run above fascia which will let any water run out 4/ become a BRICKIE ! lol

[@peterhutchinson-jp3nc]

But how exactly is ...water getting in....there is a problem elsewhere...even if there is no tray there, even no felt,,think old bangor blue roof.....water should not be under the tiles in the first place....the problem is being totally overlooked here.....if you have a soffiat and cavity wall that tray could only ever leak into the soffiat and outer skin,think of the distance involved to get to the inner skin....

[@SkillBuilder]

If there is a breather membrane (probably isn't) you will get gallons of water running down it, that is how they work.

[@Toyotaamazon80series]

I find those plastic eaves trays aren't great for retrofitting, they're better on re-roofing jobs or new roofs. The first thing i do is remove the gutters and inspect the fascia. Then the first two rows of tiles come off. If the first batten needs replacing i do so. On retrofits i use 6mm marine ply ripped to approximately 10" wide. I cut and fit sprocket to finish flush with the top of the fascia. I fit the ply flush with the outside of the fascia. I then fit some Iko eaves protector on top then the old felt is lapped on top.

[@tomkeen9734]

Our house has this problem following various problems post a new roof. All three sides of our semi detached property have water ingress. I've painted the house twice in ten ish years myself and am about to put in eaves flashing that's non existent. Thanks for the video noting to raise the new eaves flashing, (my word apologies if wrong) I'm sure will be invaluable.

[@johnbruce9698]

I was always told to use a tilting fillet at the bottom of the rafter.

[@gngn2874]

That's what I've always known it as. Not quite an arris rail ,though depends on pitch.

[@Robster65]

standard procedure as a joiner for 40 +yrs

[@dennisphoenix1]

I suspect the felt isn't on top of the support tray , so the rain water is going down the back . I have seen this before.

[@diddywright6165]

I don’t understand why they’ve fitted eaves trays and not replaced the first metre of felt, with the existing set up wind could blow water back into the roof and off the back of the tray.

[@Toyotaamazon80series]

They may have priced for it but the client was unwilling to pay for it. It's quite common.

[@mandipsinghbains6395]

What good timing, just what I needed, thank you 😎👍

[@Roverturbo]

No mention of what a mess that looks like? The picture at the beginning I thought was before the repair..😮. Not after.

[@petersimpson633]

I think at 7:0 it is being alleged the job was carried out by members of the Provisional wing of the Caravan Club..?

[@SkillBuilder]

Nicely put

[@cybershot123]

Well done Roger .

[@janoginski5557]

We used to call them firring pieces.

[@jameswiggins3200]

I’d say the fascia board is to high and needs cutting down approx 20mm then the tiles will follow the course above, the bottom row of felt perhaps 2-3 rows needs replacing then sprockets fitted to carry the eaves tray. I always use double sided tape to stick membrane to the tray with rolled tiles stops any wind lift on the felt

[@SkillBuilder]

Good tips and analyses. It is hard to say if the fascia is too high without seeing the tiles in place but it is a fair bet

[@sharonclaridge]

If it was the same national company who did ours, it will have been a half arsed job at best once a few tiles are removed to have a proper look.

[@twig3288]

I thought that a sprocket was the kind of thing that a bicycle chain loops around

[@SkillBuilder]

There are many sprockets in the world just as there are many noggings and dwangs.

[@hi-tech55]

Yes sprockets they were called in my carpentry college days. I’m glad the word is still about. I don’t hear it too often.

[@janoginski5557]

That’s what Roger is referring to as wedges.

[@ryanodea5417]

These vids are really great Roger. So interesting. 👍

[@belucky9630]

Any advice on a metal roof ? Any recommendations ? Or have you used any product? I have a barn turning into a bungalow/conversion, Due to the slope, recommended a metal roofing system .looked at zinc but extremely costly .So have been looking at Colour Clad insulated roofing panels, they seem to do two jobs in one being insulated . Any suggestions or have you come across any other systems? . Thank you

[@bobbarford]

EAVES!

[@rob5944]

I've never had trays, fibreboard or bits of wood. Just tiles overhanging the gutters with felt underneath them. 🤔

[@970357ers]

Looks like hardboard used instead of a proper tear-back/membrane, shoved up behind the tiles from the eaves.

[@jtb52]

Unrelated question. Does anyone know what I need to fit an ikea grillskar gas connecter ? It says US 1/4 on the female but this does not fit my gas bottle connection 😢..other thing there's no washer in the female more like an olive

[@gigiduru3522]

Wonderful to see you're watching Dr. Campbell in the background :) Nice to see wise people follow other wise people and, coincidentally, I'm following both :) Nice little surprise there.

[@SkillBuilder]

Absolutely!

[@EgoShredder]

I prefer Stefan Lanka who had a court battle years ago with the establishment.

[@chapman9230]

I would check out Back To The Science. Regular debunks there of Dr JC’s output.

[@gigiduru3522]

@@chapman9230 I, after 3 university degrees & a career in 5 European countries (including the UK, France & Switzerland that have decent health systems) I would humbly recommend listening to Dr. Campbell, who evolved & realized himself that he was wrong, 1-2 years ago, when he blindly trusted the propaganda. But hey, we should also allow natural selection to do its thing.

[@knowledgeishalfthebattle]

The Skill Builder should co-host episodes with the Canadian Prepper. On what people can do to prep their small home for shtf!

[@janoginski5557]

It’s the usual problem, lack of attention to detail at the transitions. The fields are, or should be reasonably straightforward but the transitions require a high level workmanship, unfortunately in our experience this is not the case theses Days. I had a conversation with an old & good customer of ours just the other Day in all the many jobs we undertook, we only had one call back & after a couple of visits we discovered another point of water ingress which was about 24ft from where the problem was apparent internally.

[@Pete.Ty1]

👍👍👍Thanks

[@SyncMan172]

Hope they manage to get this sorted. Our loft was absolutely covered in condensation when we had a cold snap. We have only been here since Aug 2022 and its a 1997 house so we are really worried in case it's something major but not many tradesman seem to want to help :-(

[@JT-si6bl]

You need some roof vents installed.

[@burwoodbuild]

A perfect explanation 💯 Have to ask why someone thought fibreboard was a good idea?! 😅

[@SkillBuilder]

Exactly!

[@Batman111-q3r]

My guess is the facia might be to high which mean the water is trying to to run up hill if there was a leak

[@Batman111-q3r]

If facia is to high , you can’t get enough slope on felt or eves tray which will mean the rafters are lower than facia so instead of water flowing off it’s try to go up over facia

[@Toyotaamazon80series]

​@@Batman111-q3reEaves sprockets and a wide enough 6mm plywood eaves tray would sort that problem.

[@georgeashton8578]

Great aise

[@nollyon66]

can any one tell me how you fit a tray under the felt on a slate roof as the slate nails are covered by the slate above. Thanks

[@Toyotaamazon80series]

Use a slate ripper to pull the nails out.

[@slyteen2197]

An excellent video that's well explained. This is quite a common occurrence. I also see that Roger had good taste on his KZbin playlist. Dr John Campbell has an excellent channel.

[@chapman9230]

I spotted that. I used to be a fan of the good doctor. But no longer. I started spotting holes in his videos. Check out Back To The Science with Dr Oliver. She quite often debunks his videos. Mind you Dr JC is doing very well out of it. His firm has 1.2 million cash . Nice.

[@SkillBuilder]

Well said!

[@SkillBuilder]

Vic I was following John Campell way before Covid and I think he has good judgement based on the evidence at the time. Nobody knows what would have happened if we didn't have the vacines but it seems it is time to take stock. It was a risk either way.

[@EgoShredder]

@@vic6820 Think of the last three years while listening to this kzbin.info/www/bejne/fWWXY6Nrf9eJa80 . "Dr Lawrence Dunegan recalls 1969 meeting with Dr Richard Day | New Order of Barbarians". This is the shortened 1hr edit but the original is 4hrs.

[@lowrangedifflockers2209]

Condensation

[@kevinrowe456]

Those felt support trays are a bad idea in my opinion, if you need to maintain or replace the guttering it’s a nightmare. We always used exterior quality ply to support a rot proof membrane if sprockets were not present.

[@SkillBuilder]

wide dpc on top of the ply is good, most membranes rot with UV

[@kevinrowe456]

@@SkillBuilder Epdm membrane will last 50 years, dpc polyethylene will soon deteriorate in direct sunlight.

[@mozzer999]

​@@kevinrowe456I was recommended to use wide dpc membrane 30 years ago. Thought it might be slightly better than the old style felt that rotted so quickly where the sun got at it. After all it's not designed to be in the sun. Well it is still there as good as the day it went in. Seems to outlast any other plastic, unbelievably .....

[@Alexxx---101]

They might have just put their fascia to high.

[@waynekerrr9027]

Better known as gypos

[@netwt449]

Iv’e seen that before…flattened boxes from Amazon I think…

[@pinkyn0se]

Lol, that's not damp, it's raining in there.

[@JT-si6bl]

that looks like rotten mdf under the tiles! Bloody hell!!

[@Richierich567]

There's no need for sprocket timbers to support eve tray if tiles where pulled out and eve tray was sat on facia would be fine that's what eve trays are for to take sag out of the felt. Hence there name eve tray... Bad explanation in this video And to say they have meant to have been back to fix the problem that is shocking that the tiles are still pushed up.

[@SkillBuilder]

The tiles were not left in that pushed back position. I disagree about the sprocket not being required. The trays often sag and crack. You can see that it is horizontal.

[@Dmrdecs]

Not a leak. That’s condensation

[@SkillBuilder]

If there is condensation pouring down the inside walls from the loft that is a leak.

[@ooslum]

From that photo Rog, I can't see any sign if the felt sitting on the tray as it should

[@SkillBuilder]

You are right but maybe it has all rotted. Something is channeling the water and without seeing more we have to assume. It is always better to have more pictures.

[@ooslum]

​@@SkillBuilder they should have removed battens, trimmed and replaced new felt under the old. But I think it more likely they have put the tray on the old felt, no idea what the "cardboard" is doing.

[@DuttonRanch6666]

Roger, Good to see you’re a viewer of Dr John Campbell on KZbin

[@SkillBuilder]

About five years ago I had a hearth arythma and in order to understand it I went on to one of his lectures to some medical students. I found I could answer some of the questions that the young students struggled on and I thought 'If this guy can teach a plumber medicine he must be good' to be honest I think he is much better when he has a live audience but he has retired, as must I soon.

[@DuttonRanch6666]

@@SkillBuilder enjoy your retirement, although we’ll all miss your gift for passing on knowledge in an entertaining and understandable way.

[@Ultimate-roofing-square.]

Sprockets or a anti puddle board as we call them….

[@SkillBuilder]

I have never heard that one but it makes sense.

[@ilikethisnamebetter]

Did the lady who sent the photo say that she had pushed the tiles up to show the eave tray? If not, is it possible whoever fitted it just failed to pull them back into place?

[@SkillBuilder]

They were pushed up to show the problem

[@ilikethisnamebetter]

OK, thanks for replying, and for the video :)

[@ncooper8438]

Ffs, what a minefield! Any one of a hundred things not done correctly and a damp house will be the result.

[@ryanh3285]

Definitely not installed properly and they probably don't have them in the corners either.

[@SkillBuilder]

I think that is undoubtedly the case. They are channeling water and tipping it into the bedrooms.

[@peterallam6494]

31/3 23, The itinerant jobbers must have had an address on their logoed van's V5 Registration document. Also an offence not to keep it up to date with any address changes. Suppose there's wriggle room between The Registered Owner & The Keeper. Vehicle's MoT history from Govrnment's website can provide a good indication of driver's outlook & attitude to workmanship.

[@matthewgartell6380]

Did she give their horse a carrot?

[@1x3dil]

Hi Roger what a complete bodge up , it would have been nice to see the post they tied their horses to 🐴 . Obviously it needed work doing, but the general idea is you don’t make it worse than when you started . And they wonder why we thought doing away with proper apprenticeship was a bad idea . And there will be little point in the lady getting them back , because they couldn’t do it properly if they tried . What a useless bunch of tos….

[@soundslave]

why are builders so bad? I am so scared to hire anyone these days. Can't find good ones anywhere

[@Toyotaamazon80series]

It's because it's an unregulated industry and as a result it attracts bottom feeder's. There's some fabulous craftsmen out there but most clients don't want to pay for good work. They expect champagne work for cider money.

[@soundslave]

@@Toyotaamazon80series price isn't even a factor now. Cowboys charge the top rate too

[@Toyotaamazon80series]

@@soundslave Unless a guild system is introduced into the trades nothing will change.

[@SteveAndAlexBuild]

Good luck with that one 😬🧱👍🏼

[@PrangGella]

Caravans

[@paul756uk2]

3.142kies

[@Robster65]

bare fistin

[@tomroland5467]

Another depressing story and one of many where the customer has been ripped off. No one can be trusted.....

[@snapdragogon69]

Maybe roof leaks elsewhere and it was running down that felt into the gutter or soffit void. Now they pushed those trays in and damages the fragille felt, it runs down from the leak and into the loft or wall cavity instead of the gutter.

[@tinytonymaloney7832]

I would never use any tradesman who only displayed a mobile number on the van. If there's no landline then my assumption is that they don't have a fixed address and any so called warrenty is not worth the paper its printed on.

[@davewright9312]

Who on earth still has a land line? I hear noah had one on his ark

[@martinknight510]

I have an address tha I'm more than happy to give to customers but have never had a land-line yet 🤷

[@ricos1497]

​@@SatoshibtcI know plenty of tradesmen who don't own business premises. I don't have a landline either. Even if I did, there's no chance I'd ever answer it!

[@Alexxx---101]

You can have a virtual business number in any area code of your choice for like £5 a month. Its forwarded to your mobile to make it look like you have a landline.

[@Shaggy-8392]

I just don't trust them anymore. My builder has recently abandoned by extension. Kunts.