Which Champion Should Riot ACTUALLY Rework?

[@hambonusmaximus]

Skarner's redesign should give him a hoverboard made from Seraphine's parents, just out of spite

[@salvadorvega3805]

Ah yes, a meat board

[@FlutterSwag]

battlecast seraphine

[@ink66]

oh no but oh yes

[@DarkOne7777]

dew it

[@ericborczuk135]

Like reverse annie, but reverse skarner

[@AlexCastro-ko1qi]

I think they should replace Kog's passive with a similar passive to Kayn where you can choose to evolve into an ap or ad champion.

[@keeshy]

Ooh great idea!

[@TimeFro]

That would play into the void evolution theme as well. He could start as a puppy voidling and scale into a monster ADC or Hyper AP carry with each form having different abilities

[@Dragansidhe]

@@TimeFro i feel like the only reason they wouldn't do this is because it feeds it's self into the issue they are trying to solve with udyr (and which kayn also suffers from) where they have to make 3+ different models per skin they make (for udyr it was 5 different models per skin which is why he hasnt gotten very many).

[@themuffinprincesa21]

@@Dragansidhe he wouldn't have to visually change, just change how abilities lay out like kayn. Example for Ad kog: his Q grants pen vs on AP it now marks a champ (like lux passive or LB Q) that next ability will proc for damage. W Ad can give passive attack speed and stay how it is while Ap could cause his Autos to have a Dot on them.

[@axela.9247]

That is a GENIUS idea

[@Manuelovic97]

I always had a crazy idea for a Nocturne ultimate where you see your teammates as 4 other Nocturnes and you are able to damage them

[@RamRam.720]

maybe in a season where people didnt die to 1 ability past 20 mins

[@panzalinopanzultimate4796]

Honestly think my bards always have this on amount of times those players have sold me out...

[@sedditt4092]

Aoe attacks would be a pain in the ass

[@billthesonofman7764]

Imagine getting 1 shotted by your own fed jihn

[@frozi1541]

If i get from that AP as Veiagr i will do quadra kill on my team for it.

[@zlightning037]

I agree with Necrit when it comes to Kog'ma, making him more voidy doesn't seem like the right play because he'll look too much like every other void champion. So play on his niche and make him very cute on the outside but when he attacks, you get to see the true monster he really is

[@vyllix8546]

Idk it feels weird having a void monster that doesn't look like a void monster, i kind of like that idea of hiding the actual void interior

[@SKsuprakirby]

Tbh They would struggle to make Bee Maw cuter.

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

They could just make him purple.

[@h4roeverynyan55]

@@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz cute purple bug-puppy

[@ShipyardGuy]

A more voidy kogmaw would probably just look like velkoz on legs

[@padamoce7642]

Making shyvanna slightly change her kit when the field changes with the dragons would be uber sick, sorta absorbing part of the dragon she kills would work too

[@TheDapperDragon]

I want 2 things for Shyv. Front legs, and to get the fuck away from Demacia

[@jaqhy-chan9884]

@@TheDapperDragon This. Her demacian "loyalty" is an abusive relationship at best, built flimsily on her simping for Jarvan.

[@VanishingPuppet]

I think matching the arena in some way would be cool af and would put a special focus on the dragons early game.

[@happysumo8138]

That would be insanely hard to balance

[@IcarusOOT]

@@TheDapperDragon She'll probably always be a part of Demacia, especially with her being in LoR

[@davewhispers7720]

For me if they change Skarner lore I hope they don't "fix" the brakern crystal issue with Seraphine and piltover. I feel his lore is unique and needs a update like he is out there saving them and interacting with the outside world.

[@envysart797]

As much as I like the headcanon of Seraphine being written as a monster and a subversion of the Disney princess she was meant to be, I don’t think that was intentional sadly

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

They can't fix seraphine's lore, they roast it too XD

[@MatthewCJoy]

@@envysart797 it 100% wasn't intentional, she was meant as a goody trendy cash grab character.

[@ziglaus]

I hope they fucking do! The whole thing is so annoying. Somebidy on the lore department made a mistake, didn't know hextech and Brackern were connected, and a vocal minority ran with it, just because they hated Seraphine

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

@@ziglaus wdym "didn't know hextech and Brackern were connected"? the writer clearly knew that was a thing, he just wrote a terrible character. and people hate seraphine BECAUSE of that terrible writing. people don't hate her for no reason -_-

[@Gamemaster13000]

I'm so scared they're going to retcon the whole part about Skarner's people being mined for hextech. That point of tension coming from Piltover is a good bit of story telling.

[@Sasorislovery]

Same that’s the only Hangul I have about him being reworked. “Oh he’s not a Brackern anymore he’s just a scorpion abomination thing from the void”

[@GiRR007]

Skaners people being crystals isnt really necessary, the crystals can just be magic crystals mined from a cave and it wouldn't really make any different story wise, since nothing really comes out of the crystals being skarners race. Its not like skarner is doing anything to get them back. Literally the only thing they effect story wise is Seraphine and shes not even doing anything with them.

[@Gloriankithsanus]

@@GiRR007 It removes the essential thing for stories to work. Conflict and drama. It just becomes more boring for no reason, if they're not mining his friends and relatives. Emotional investment is all it is about

[@sakurakasugano5748]

@@GiRR007 skarners whole story is him defending his race as its only living member from human miners what do you mean

[@GiRR007]

@@Gloriankithsanus there doesn't need to be emotional investment for them mining his friends, since no one really cares about skarner in the first place. The entire plot of piltover is completely unaffected whether they use skarners race as the crystals or just regular magic crystals .

[@benepic3101]

A nocturne rework would be cool because Riot knows how to deliver on “scary” thematics.Nocturne, Shaco, and fiddle both pre and post rework have kits that really emphasize fear in game in unique ways. I’d love to see how riot modernizes his design w that in mind

[@hedrbohlega2595]

Shaco

[@pyroteknikk3127]

Shaco

[@GiRR007]

i wouldnt say shaco was a full on reword compared to someone like fiddle sticks

[@MatthewCJoy]

Not really, Fiddlesticks is supposed to be the ultimate horror but is nothing but a jumpscare.

[@ArcadianCatharsis]

@@MatthewCJoy yeah

[@josefarias5216]

Imagine a parallel timeline where Riot said " see these 5 outdated champs? They all have a scheduled rework this year"

[@ArcadianCatharsis]

That would be cool.

[@kassaken6521]

@@ArcadianCatharsis Too many skins and new champs to deliver. I wish riot would just focus on updating champs to basically make them brand new champs/versions of themselves, and sideline new champions.

[@ArcadianCatharsis]

@@kassaken6521 you think it's too many, because they told you so

[@Hawkard]

@@kassaken6521 man, c'mon. They're literally focusing on releasing 150+ skins per year, cant they just halt the skin production and recycled champion production for the sake of their own game? Dude I can't get how there's Zilean stuck permanently in a T pose while we have insanely beautiful Aurelion Sol and Kindred, Riot is full of shit and greed like always

[@kassaken6521]

@@Hawkard Money bro, I hate it, but at the same time I also want Arcane season 2 😭.

[@josienxd5542]

I really like Skarner's theme (and his story potential), and I am so scared that they are going to change that for the worse

[@Novanni1421]

I mean, the latest reworks were awesome. The gameplay and visual aspect would be amazing, I'm most worried about lore, because they would rewrite it around seraphine and hextech/piltover/zaun, wich could be horrible.

[@funkyguy9713]

I think it would be good for them to not really change but go more in depth on Skarner and his race. Make me care about them and be interested in them. I want to know their culture and past better

[@Raymuk]

Same

[@quzyr8988]

Yeah that is really the only thing they can fuck up with his passive. Imo they dont really have to change his kit that much it feels fine as it is. The lore really needs some love.

[@SrGundisalvus]

Same, i worry that Riot might water down it's lore

[@jk-nz9bq]

After nocturne ults, when he recasts to a target, everyone on the enemy team should see nocturne flying towards them but only one is real

[@leming0419]

This is a bit broken considering most people would use a sum/spell but damn this is a cool idea

[@Caernunnos]

Before he recast shadows of him should move from bushes to bushes in and out of Vision range

[@flameofmage1099]

That is pretty cool but definitely would be nerfed in pro play for some dumb reason.

[@naknuknik]

Theres a hero in dota whose ultimate spawns clones that follow and attack on each enemy hero and then she can choose to swap places with one of them.

[@josuoh9888]

That's kind of funny since the Dota 2 hero he's based off of actually does that.

[@100organicfreshmemes5]

Why is Master Yi never discussed when it comes to reworks? He's an anti-fun stat stick just like Tryndamere, but Tryndamere at the very least has a decent visual design that fits into the world somewhat and a solid identity as "Berserker that won't die". Master Yi still looks like a character from an original XBox game with bulky armor, pizza feet, and ridiculous goggles on his helmet that would only fit in Piltover & Zaun, not Ionia or anywhere else on Runeterra. On the side of gameplay he's literally got no identity, all he has is a bunch of basic attack steroids, a ridiculously strong channelled heal and bootleg Shunpo. None of his abilities have any kind of interesting mechanics or synergy, and his only skill expression is timing his blink to avoid damage.

[@kiorder5809]

He is so iconic to the game, it probably will never happen. Just like Lux or Annie. I agree with you on the outdated visuals but I just don't think we will get anything.

[@hunterlurvey698]

Master yi will forever be my most hated champion, teems is annoying, so is shaco, but at least he takes a little bit of skill to make plays with. With master yi its just push a button and negate everything in the game. No skill, very brain dead

[@valcurion570]

He is Teemo tier you cant rework him

[@100organicfreshmemes5]

@@kiorder5809 Lux fits into Demacia at least somewhat, Master Yi doesn't even look like he's from the same game. I'll give you Annie but I'd also argue she needs a visual update, just give her clothing that looks like it's from Noxus and more naturally colored hair, that's all she needs.

[@100organicfreshmemes5]

@@valcurion570 Teemo at least looks like he fits into the world on account of being a Yordle.

[@m.a.dmatt6689]

Skarner, he needs it man. He's like...way behind almost everyone. His kit needs work. His visuals needs work. Hell even his lore hasn't been touched since...I don't know how long

[@pieceless224]

We can't allow him to be reworked though. If they rework him then Riot will have an excuse to change his lore. This would allow Riot to make it so that the Brackern genocide didn't happen, and make it so that Seraphine is not a monster. Will you allow them to sweep the Brackern genocide under a rug?

[@mentallyunstableeggplant661]

@@pieceless224 I think the Brackern genocide was a shit move on Riot's part- i'm not defending Sera however (her lore needs some heavy lifting done anyway). Im convinced if Skarner doesnt win the vote, he'll become the next Aurelion Sol

[@contentlegends7301]

Same for ziggs trundle and anivia

[@bennie1079]

I agree

[@ninjakirby777]

Noooo let me zoom fast and kidnap people

[@hunterperry1094]

Skooch: they need to do something to make nocturn work with more paranoia. Also skooch: nocturn making you paranoid is a toxic play style

[@Gloriankithsanus]

He doesn't really like to think about what he says.

[@changeling6450]

@@Gloriankithsanus is like ''the mechanic is there is cool and is needed, but holly hell i hate it''

[@dariomarangoni5141]

I would have voted for Skarner (he was my first main when he had a cooldown reduction on his passive), but i think that they want to retcon his lore to fit in Seraphine and that i cannot tolerate. If they want to fit in Seraphine they will have to rewrite her lore, my cristal scorpion did nothing wrong don't retcon him.

[@vaskopoh9512]

What's wrong with her having a coherent place in the lore? Isn't that supposed to be a good thing?

[@dariomarangoni5141]

@@vaskopoh9512 Skarner's lore is fine at the moment, it could be expanded, but does not need to be changed. When they wrote Seraphine they failed to incorporate her with it and instead of fixing the problem they basically ignored it, so before doing any change to Skarner's lore, which is fine, they will have to fix the problem that is Seraphine. Otherwise it would be like having a broken tire and changing the car to fix it.

[@vaskopoh9512]

@@dariomarangoni5141 His lore bogs down to "Hextech comes from Bracken" You can change so much of this story

[@DrDictator]

@@vaskopoh9512 She's the one encroaching on another champion's lore in the first place though. That's why people are like lowkey mad at Seraphine, because she just came into the Riot universe being a pop star who doesn't really fit in the area of Runeterra that she is said to be from, they gave her an ultimate skin upon her release so she's already looked at as one of Riot's favorites, and she literally disrupts other champions lore and stories with her own. She deserves to have a coherent place in the universe and Runeterra, but she comes off like she was shoehorned in and then given more of a push, so to speak, than many other champions have gotten, in exchange for more mass appeal because KDA did so well. It's an instance of Riot making a champion that the universe had to bend around and break to fit in rather than the champion being created to fit organically in the universe that Riot themselves has made. Like she comes off from the advertising and her lore like she is meant to be a very good person in Runeterra and a person of positive change, but yet she rides around on a platform that is powered by the crystals made of Brackern blood, which are from Skarner's ancestors. That is literally how it is stated in her own lore. "Within that quiet, though, Seraphine heard something-someone. The crystal had a consciousness, born of brackern blood. Though hard to hear, and harder to comprehend, the voice was kind. In a hymn of distant deserts and ancient conflicts of ancestors, a thousand years of history sang in unison."

[@dariomarangoni5141]

@@vaskopoh9512 maybe you meant add so much, and to that i agree. But there is nothing to change in his story.

[@totalrekal4195]

Well you see, Shyvana going full ap goes against her theme, I don’t want to build full ap and transform into a dragon and still be one shot, I’m a dragon why did I get one shot. Building tank actually makes me feel like a dragon.

[@Novanni1421]

Just like Sujectively said in their video. A dragon warrior with an above average health pool and defenses. Let's make her the SKINIEST motherfucker in town. She definitely should win this pool.

[@christianvannucci6455]

I think she should go more into the AP playstyle for two reasons. One, they already nudged her in that direction and it works, no point in trying to build autoattacker ad items. And two, I don't know if you have noticed, but the direction they're taking with AP items is that they are more overall tanky (Crown, more HP on every single item, better defensive stat options than ad items with Zhonyas for example). Fix her stats a little, maybe add an effect or something mild and probably make ult have some extra tankiness like Nasus, Renekton or Singed and she's fine. I get the point that going full AP makes her glasscannon because AP is supposed to be mage items and mages should be fragile like marksmen. But since Riot is taking a very, very stupid approach and making those fragile glasscannons tanky as fuck for no apparent reason through items and defensive options that stil give too much offensive power, we can speculate that she will be fine going AP and be a little tankier. If it matters to you that much to be a tanky dragon, probably slapping a full tank item or two amongst the AP items that already give good HP will work surprisingly well. It's not a gargoyle Cho, but it's something decent.

[@amandaslough125]

@@christianvannucci6455 AP items are tanky because mages don't have life steal and insane scaling from consistent auto attack damage like AD champs. They have to directly buy all their extra strength and deal with mana (in most cases). And there's still no real AP bruiser items because they haven't figured out how to make them without mages or AP assassins abusing them.

[@jonathankearney2793]

5:14 so what I'm hearing is you want to take some notes from spectre in dota, same concept. Spawns an illusion on top of every enemy hero and you can switch between them throughout the ultimate duration

[@DubstepFan247]

I completely forgot about spectre. They should take from dota a little lol

[@cattfishie]

Shyvanna’s dragon form is absolutely disappointing. Would love to see a more tuff design in general and a dragon form that doesn’t look like… that.

[@vaskopoh9512]

Then just ASU her : )

[@rihasanatrofolo2472]

Out of everyone on the vote, she is still the coolest option there, even though she is in theory "fine" right now.

[@109968shadowboy]

I think they need to add her to laning. She has to have a kit on hyper farm but not able to do stuff at times (walk into lane walk out). Her play style is fucking snores fest. Farm till 6 that’s nearly half of the game sometimes. Even if she gets kills the only time you can tell is when she is in her dragon form. They should gut the human form because her first half does fucking nothing at times. Elise is a better version.

[@aatroxtheworldender933]

Looks like a dragon that was imprisoned and hungry for years. Skinny dragon kinda trash

[@alicewicker3738]

She should be like Nidalee and Elise, that fury bs is dissapointing considering she's supposed to be magical

[@voidax99]

Shyvana: has only 1 decent ability that's only useful for half of the game time or less and only gets to be useful for 3 sec at a time Scooch: "shyvana's fine!"

[@TyranusRex721]

Shyvana has been dog shit for a while. She has lost her bruiser status that she was designed to have. The only thing she can do now is try to nuke someone with her E in her ultimate. All her other abilities suck ass. That is not a healthy playstyle or champion design in the slightest.

[@voidax99]

@@TyranusRex721 thank you! Glad someone sees it

[@SilencedButNotForgotten]

Yeah, Agurin smurfs on her because of how ridiculous strong her E is, but she lost her bruiser identity. Still, I think other champs need it far more. Such as Kog, Master Yi, Skarner...

[@voidax99]

@@SilencedButNotForgotten yeah bit all of those have viable playability beyond their role, she literally only has 1 single ability that's useful for 3 sec out of 3 min per game

[@0MidnighttheDragon0]

Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way Also "shyvana still gives you the dragon champion fantasy" ...she's literally some twitchy flaily twig with paper strapped to it's arms. That's not a dragon.

[@MilesJA1904]

I really loved Necrit's idea for a Kog'maw rework. Instead of making him more void'y, make him cuter. Make him the cutest puppy ever created... Till he activates his w.

[@yharleththegrandobserver236]

If this was the direction they went I would be so incredibly happy.

[@fatnfurious4370]

kinda like "the thing" from "the thing" that can basically immitate things and seem harmless untill all of a sudden BAM tentacle through the face, now youre assimilated and copied.

[@Max19_08]

The real question is: Which champ does china not like? Because I bet 10 bucks this champ will win the vote : ^)

[@namishusband818]

So Skarner?

[@adonisyt1]

You are so correct and I'm really surprised this comm a no isn't pinned.

[@merrychristmasreaper]

Damn time for another Karthus rework already, huh?

[@RyeFields]

I think shyv is gonna get it because they want another generic hot champ, even though I want her to stay the same minus a small visual update

[@DarkStar14n]

China chose Shyv last time. It did not win.

[@Hyurno]

They should just rework all of these lol and Corki where tf is corki have you seen him? Or Zilean? What about Zilean? ZILEAN HAS 5 ANIMATIONS. Auto attack (same as Q), idle (same as walking lol), dancing, channeling and dying. F I V E. AKALI HAS MORE AUTOATTACK ANIMATIONS THAN ZILEAN IN HIS WHOLE KIT.

[@Drakorre]

But does akali have the drip?

[@colboy1fish]

The thing about Zilean is that he is a very well designed champion and his gameplay still holds up today, despite being one of the firs set. He just needs a visual upgrade, but this poll was for complete reworks.

[@bobjeezorham7658]

The description for Skarner's rework makes me worried that they are going to change him into a pretty anime boy or something lol. They seem to hate that he's a crystal scorpion and that just makes me worry they're gonna change him to look like every other new champion

[@erwinthedodo9205]

I don't think they'll change the fact that he'll be a scorpion. And if they do, I'll bomb their hq in minecraft

[@Andy-xd5dj]

I'd say the other way, they are trying to polish his scorpion visual

[@Keurgui1]

I mean did Sion or Urgot become pretty anime boys for their visual updates? No they just looked less like piles of shit on legs and more like real champions Skarner is gonna be the same story (ideally)

[@kiwilemonade1289]

I think they're still pissed that everyone hates Seraphine, and a lot of hate comes from the Skarner (and his peoples) lore. So they could use Skarner reset to reset the entire crystal lore and preserve their kda princess' image. So I fear they'd change him into something almost unrecognizable and everything brand new lore that has nothing to do with the Brackern at all. Maybe he stays a scorpion, since they have similar models and wouldn't change much, but would have nothing to do with the Brackern. In fact they would likely change the brackern as a whole to not be crystal scorpions and just be, crystal people (like sexy crystal people, so if a champ does come in, they get to be sexy)

[@nem3732]

You're actually just paranoid. Even the most controversial rework Riot has ever done, Aatrox still looks very similar to his original design. Riot did say that the crystal scorpion is a boring and basic thematic but that doesn't mean he won't be a scorpion. Riot isn't gonna turn him into a dude cuz Riot isn't stupid. He would still be a scorpion but he won't be just a crystal scorpion just how Warwick isn't just a werewolf.

[@Emro_vdO]

I would vote for Ryze. It's been too long without a Ryze rework.

[@Digala02]

I voted Skarner, i wanted a Kog'Maw- or Nocturne-rework but Skarner is so useless and i have only seen a single Skarner in my life

[@valcurion570]

Useless useless respect the brakern pls bro, bot diff after all

[@kevinsplinter1954]

Mastery 7 skarners represent. I think he's actually pretty good rn, but you have to sacrifice personal success at every turn. I won 23 straight games on Skarner last year by just forcing myself to secure every objective and babysit winning lanes, and even though I always end with least damage and nothing else contributed, it just works

[@valcurion570]

@@kevinsplinter1954 im playing top i dont know thoses problems

[@roninwrld1059]

Typing during the nocturn/kog talk. For nocturn, I think that reducing the damage/snowball effect on nocturn, in exchange for more utility to embrace the living nightmare effect would make his play style more balanced (possibly depending on how they do on it) and make his thematic more unique if they stick to the nightmare feeling

[@silvwolfe2574]

I just want to put this out there: I learn more about league of legends and its champions and have more fun doing so through skooch than any other league channel. So thank you skooch! Even though I just play the mobile league games (wild rift and legends of runeterra), learning through you makes me feel more connected to the general world of league and more knowledgeable about the game and what the future of wild rift may hold

[@pokey2747]

I really want Nocturne or Shyvanna to get that rework, mostly because I feel like the dragon form should have the same kind of feeling as Mega Gnar, where you feel like an unbeatable beast and the enemy knows it, and giving nocturne a fiddlesticks style rework where they become actually nerve racking, that would be awesome, however the champion that needs a rework the absolute most, is cho’gath and I stand by it.

[@megarayquaza9054]

**C O U G H** Zilean.

[@charlestunnard5250]

I may be biased as someone who plays Cho'gath occasionally, but not consistently, but I definitely agree he should be high priority for a rework. His abilities are all so clunky feeling, and would benefit from modernization. For my money though, Malphite has the biggest need for a VGU. He's an ult bot, and the rest of his abilities are so bland. Either you only care about the AP ratio on his Q, and his ult; or you only care about the bonus armor, and his ult.

[@ArcadianCatharsis]

@@charlestunnard5250 true

[@ArcadianCatharsis]

@@megarayquaza9054 zilean is very good. Doesn't need rework.

[@ChiefShrek]

@@ArcadianCatharsis he looks like diarrhea.

[@scrambledripper9181]

For a nocturne rework I think something like Freddy from dead by daylight would be great periodically one champion will have their vision reduced and have a similar effect audio and vision wise like when insane in don't starve but the thing is that nocturnes ult let's him choose to put this effect on someone with a similar range to his current ult. But he can choose ult on enemies that have the effect globally so you have no idea if it is happening naturally or if you are about to die

[@Xedlord]

Always a treat to see someone reference Don't Starve

[@skylerfreeman1173]

i love fiddlesticks rework (as pretty much everyone does) another fear factor champ would be hilarious to add to league imo. More jumpscares!!! (not evelynn type tho - permastealth is a no no even if balanced xD) unfortunately Shyvana will probably win the vote war :C

[@TenzoVIII]

@@Xedlord i mean no... but close enough

[@Ballerheiko]

aaah shit, r u for real? Freddy from Dead by Daylight? that's just like saying Thanos from Fortnight, Pikachu from Smash Bros or some other weird ass cameo appearance from any other important character in some nieche game.

[@scrambledripper9181]

​@@Ballerheiko I wasn't saying he is from dead by daylight i was refrencing how he plays in it i know he didn't come from there. I was making a reference to his gameplay mechanics

[@angeldouch3175]

Skooch explained what happened to pantheon very well after his rework.

[@max.racing]

absolutely true

[@michaelruther3275]

I would say we are missing the whole Visual part of the Vgu. Look at Shyvana's dragon form and tell me that skinny thing with wings on her forearms is a dragon when we all see the elemental dragons. Shyvana should at least be top 3.

[@fatnfurious4370]

yall seem to ignore that shes only a half dragon though... it makes sense that shes basically quadrupedal slenderman with webbed arms. HALF dragon, not elemental drake, not shapeshifter, HALF DRAGON

[@michaelruther3275]

@@fatnfurious4370It is clear you have never played Legends of Runterra and hence has never seen the Card Art for Shyvana. One look at any of her cards and you would realize you are wrong. In LoR her being half dragon is why she has purple skin, her human form though holds no bearing on her Dragon form and she looks exactly like her Dragon mother but very red. So before you try to justify her "slenderman" design and call it purposeful look at her other official character models and think for 3 seconds.

[@Akelsien]

Shyvana is playable but is she fun and do u really feel like a dragon when u play her? Not really it just feels like her ults a sick dash and shes an assassin which is so different from the themes. Id love a more tanky, Sej style jg/top or even look towards a character like Dragon Knight in Dota.

[@Felinaxo]

I had never realized the Potential of the reworked shyvanna using a Greatsword or Greataxe until you mentioned Dragon Knight... holy fuck that sounds awesome

[@Geheimnis-c2e]

@@Felinaxo Don't give her weapons. Let her use her dragon heritage to be her weapon. Why would you need weapons on her when she has goddamn dragon claws that rips through armor? Not saying DK's design is bad. I'm just saying her claw-to-claw playstyle to stay.

[@pat1275]

I remember watching Foxdrop describe Nocturne as the most fair champion in the game. He has a loud ass warning when he ults someone, he has to wait 2.5s to actually fear someone and his damage hinges on being fast and attacking fast, which means he can be CC'd. You know he can use his spellshield but he has to run straight at you, so he cannot dodge abilities, he has to take one and use spellshield on it. When he ults, ADCs vs Nocturne just run over to their support , and their supports know to do the same. Kha'zix, Evelynn or Katarina don't give the same warning.

[@poijnve3912]

exepect you have top, mid and jungle where nocturne create a 2 vs 1 unaviodiable situation, and if you dont have any, and i mean any, dash/blink ability... it doesn't matter that the fears has a 2.5s of delay it will still hit!. I'm saying it as a main lily that can't outrund the nocturne fear despite the fact that i have 200+ more ms that nocturne!, r+ fear is an unavoidable fear if you don't have flash/dash/blink edit: because remember nocturne no only gain ms becuase of his q, he will blue smithe you, or he will be a slow

[@amandaslough125]

Eve literally doesn't do any damage until her 2 sec charm fully charges, tells you the direction she's approaching from, and walks close enough you can see her.

[@TheKazekyo]

I've voted for Shyvanna, my take: - Skarner: very good contestant but i refuse to give Riot a free pass to fix the mess they've made with Seraphine's lore, didn't any of you thought it was sus that they've specifically mentioned how they wanted to rework his lore? - Nocturne: They just need to accept him as a mid and top laner instead of nerfing him because of all the Zed/Yone/Yasuo mains crying for Riot to remove him from lane. - Kog Maw: He's just fine, Kog is viable maybe a mini rework like Diana and Wukong to give him some form of mobility. - Shyvanna: Terrible passive, without dragon form charged you're so useless that you're basically afk, in dragon form you have just one skill (sorry Skooch your points to why she's fine were terrible like you said she was buffed multiple times and got ap ratios and her numbers still shit that for me shows that the champion is just dated) - Tryndamere: Pointless rework when they mention that they're keeping the most toxic aspects of his kit, just do an ASU if you think he looks so dated.

[@Felinaxo]

Shyvanna feels like she has 2 buttons, Change form and Do damage (E). And its absolutely horrible. Ad Shyv is fun... but since everything kills you in 1.2 seconds nowdays its impossible to play her AD without getting blasted And the passive is, as you said, absolute garbage

[@basementhomie2674]

Let's be honest , if we could get 5 champs rework instead of 1 everyone would be hyped as fuck. But shyvana is one of the few champions on that list that looks great on the rift while skarner/nocturne/kogmaw look like shit. In terms of skills and passives and shit i can use your same logic with kogmaw. Kogmaw has only 1 skill when building AP , kogmaw has only W when building ad , kogmaw doesn't really have a passive. Shyvana has an identity as a demacian dragon lady while Kog doesn't even feel like from the void. He is missing purple , he looks like something that could come out of GP's cumbucket in bilgewater. Shyvana is gonna win either way cuz china loves anime women so shyvana is the only one there that is a woman. Sadly your opinion is irrelevant , if riot puts a these monster champions and Ahri , Ahri is gonna with 86% of votes in China and 20% global and they will give the rework to Ahri as a "special doble rework" so people don't bitch about it. Skarner deserves the rework not only because he looks like shit but because is more probable that they will make a good work with him instead of "we are gonna change shyvana Q and she is gonna look great , btw here you have a porcelain skin and a anime bunny battle girl skin for shyv" skarner has actual potential on becoming a unique good champion. Tldr fuck china lmao

[@hypnosemblem8829]

I want shyvana to do something with the elemental dragons.

[@antongrigoryev6381]

I wish she had more meaningful rewards for slaying them. I mean, 5 armor and 5 magic res per dragon? That's literally nothing.

[@MrChaoticreign]

Her dragon form changes based on what dragon she kills. Kills fire dragon and gets atk spd and crit. Kills water drag gets Regen and mama. Kills earth dragon gains armor and health. Kills elder and gains all the previous buffs and a sheild

[@hypnosemblem8829]

@@MrChaoticreign that’s wild rift, I’m talking about computer league

[@HexQuesTT]

I voted Shyv just cause she always just barely gets missed out on these rework polls, and I want AD/Bruiser shyvana back (They may just lean more into AP shyv tbh but even that I'd prefer) I hope they'll do it like Voli/Fiddle and pick the top 2 if they're close

[@glizzygladiator9746]

Hopefully they do since nocturne might be up there with shyvana . He needs as well . For nocturne they need to remove the armour since he Doesn't really need it . The blades can be smaller and a bit thinner , be a part of his body sorta like Wolverine claws also they need to update shaco asap

[@fatnfurious4370]

ad shyvana is still viable though... yall acting like shes literally unplayable. SHES FINE, SHE DOESNT NEED ANYTHING, yall shyvana simps are almost as bad as the people that voted for tryndamere just because they think his ult is "op" and hoped it would be removed for that.

[@HexQuesTT]

@@fatnfurious4370 AD Shyv doesn't have the tankiness to be good or the burst to be an assassin (which I don't want) she's just straight up better when buukt AP

[@jamesoverbuild9496]

I remember when they used to give us like 5 new champs along with 5 full VGUs instead of giving us a pool of 5 to choose and then say "lol good luck next year". I wouldn't mind having a full year without new champs if it meant that they updated a lot, if not all, of the ugly or outdated champs instead.

[@quzyr8988]

Yeah i feel the same way. Problem is that riot goes more for marketing and a vgu is in that case more risky than a new champ. Sadly they just sell better

[@amandaslough125]

We might at least be getting some ASUs.

[@gamemasterbob9]

If they want to keep scarners pillars, I would be curious to see him maybe place his own around the map, so it's more strategic than needing to be in those specific spots

[@SnowyGrass]

yeah the biggest problem with the pillars is that like 90% of the time you will never fight in them or they might have been turned off by the enemy before the fight.

[@Samuel_Axaeon]

@@SnowyGrass or in my experience during the fight. Unless you stand in the area as well hitting enemies doesn't stop them from taking the crystals

[@SnowyGrass]

@@Samuel_Axaeon i don't even remember what his passive was before the spires, but i feel like it was better than this.

[@deathstar6998]

@@SnowyGrass His passive before the spires was worked into his kit, so it was an addition.

[@SnowyGrass]

@@deathstar6998 ah i see

[@cage5577]

Skarner and Shyv are my picks. Shyv for just visuals and Skarner for everything. I like Nocturne already and I don't use the d&d barbarian. Kog'maw I just want his passive changed.

[@villeguilliet6845]

Just because she's viable, doesn't mean she isn't in desperate need of a rework. You said it yourself: farm till six, ult, e, e, e, e, e. Your could take a hammer to your q, and her w is a glorified teemo w. The one called "move quickly". How is this a fun and engaging playstyle that gives you the feeling of playing a fucking dragon?

[@luckypeanut9943]

I love the idea of the character progression approach they gave pantheon and I think Kog would be perfect right now with the void event: In the lore he's endlessly trying to get to malzahar (like a lost puppy) maybe he evolves once they finally interact and that's how he gets his more void like adaptation

[@0MidnighttheDragon0]

Honestly my main complaint about shyv kitwise is that I don't LIKE that she literally only has one ability that is useful and it's ONLY useful while in her ult and that's it. She's a character with literally 1 ability. And as far as the dragon fantasy.... As someone who is OBSESSED with dragons and shyv, done well, would be my favorite league character if some well (similar to how I was super hyped for Asol because badass god star dragon who literally destroys stars-oh...he just slowly floats around and kinda has orbiting orbs boop people. I don't feel like a godly star dragon I feel like a hula hooper....a slow and weak one) Shyvana doesn't feel like a dragon when in dragon form. She feels like a weird lanky twig zombie thing that awkwardly flails and twitches her body around.

[@gkarak1996]

I think that the only thing that skarner needs to change is his e interactions. It is criminal that your q cannot proc the e marks.

[@sippycupsamurai669]

I agree with the Skarner update. It would really help tie in his lore and maybe not make it to where hextech crystals are made from the souls of his dead family. Or maybe they still do but Skarner actually says something about it. Or he's out for vengeance. Something. He's such a cool champion, there's so much potential in him I just hope they can tie him in perfectly

[@whosewell6918]

i really hope skarner stays a cc machine with his kit. I love going toplane and just cc the enemie. pull them under tower with the insta stun follow up. Yeah i suck at farming but i am basicly fullbuild with a chemtank. i just let him keep his second stun and i am happy.

[@quzyr8988]

It would be really sad if they would take away skarners cc chain. It basically defines him with his pillars.

[@ArchangelKovac]

A Nocturne rework would work great, my only worry is that it'll be too similar to Fiddle. They need to keep him as a nightmare and as a Demon, but reinforce his identity as a creature who lurks in your dreams, and if you slip up, you're dead. Fiddle will mimic others to trick you and make you as afraid as possible, but Nocturne doesn't care about that. He feasts on your fear on things that aren't real, while people fear Fiddle himself. That's the difference they would need to keep if he is reworked

[@kaheichan6228]

Gameplay wise there is a major difference in the way they make you afraid. Fiddle makes you scared of the dark, places without vision while Nocturne makes you afraid of being alone. Being next to your support doesn't make fiddle r less scary while seeing where he is does. With Nocturne having an extra buddy around is what keeps you sane. So I expect they could make it different from Fiddle.

[@DanteCrowlley]

*It's up to China to choose the destiny*

[@TheDapperDragon]

So, Shyvana

[@a-drewg1716]

@@TheDapperDragon yes

[@traine4126]

Make champs shit themselves when they see nocturne making a stinky trail everyone can see. Also gives true vision and grounds invis champs and removes dashes while shitting.

[@redwolvlives]

I think a good middle ground for Nocturnes Ult would be when when her uses it to go it, it spawns a clone for all the untargeted players that also dash in on them. That way in team fight senarios he could bait abilities from a grouped up team as they would see 5 different nocturnes coming in.

[@MF-ui5uk]

My thoughts exactly. Even in lane you could panic because of the clone coming at you. And the opponant, while knowing if it's a clone or not, could bait a fake gank and safely hit you a bit as you run away or some shit.

[@lok4890]

Im pretty sure that is an ability from a Dota character

[@pumba9393]

That means no matter what happens he kills someone… Like the only way to counter that guy is by grouping up which, and in this case everyone would have to either waste their abilities before Nocturn’s team engages, or preserve them and let someone die. That sounds awful

[@Kub1na32]

So, Spectre from Dota.

[@MF-ui5uk]

@@pumba9393 It's true that it makes his ult even more toxic than what it already is. But hey, at least one is having fun xd

[@lehiergendwo8291]

There's a champ in Dota, similar to Nocturne, called Spectre. Spectres ult creates clones behind every enemy player and he can choose a clone to switch places with. This is basically what Skooch's idea for a Nocturne Ult rework was and I would personally agree that a change like this would be pretty badass.

[@barnyard4030]

Shyvana deserves it the most, tyrndemere is ok so far, nocturne is doing good espically with lethel tempo and assassins are doing good in jungle. Kogmaw just needs some numbers changed, and skarner isnt in a bad spot hes good but hes boring to play but not unplayable thats why people dont pick him. Shyvana is just unplayable. one thing is she cant do anything til lvl 6 so she loses to early invade and cant really 1v1 anybody either espically if ur going full ap. Second thing is she is to reliant on her ult and i know alot of people will say some champs are relient on ult, but the difference is she cant win fights with ult if she uses it and nothing happens, u just become a slightly stronger minion. And finally f ur team decides to play aggressive and die to a gank, u cant really do anything but cs til 6 and even then youll lose cause ur a late champ so u cant 1v1. If shyvana was in a good place as u said we would have seen her more often. Ive seen skarners, ive played nocturne and tryndemre is popping off. But if i ever see an enemy shyvana jg, i guarantee you im invading her everytime and she cant do anything. Gank is impossible ill just bully her. And the most important thing is she is built so horrible and u cant compassionate for it, u build her ap ur to squishes and to reliant on ult and e, ya u can 2 shot people, but one hit is enough to run away and u have another 5 sec to wait. And ad good but u do lose burst dmg but more overall dps. And yes kogmaw has the same problem but one is suppose to be a juggernaut and the other is a longer range champ that can easily get away and only dies if he misplaces himself. So please pick shyvana

[@Stele_Games]

He is like: overfeed Noct sees u, he ults u and u are dead. Thats toxic. Now imagine overfeed Shyvana e u, u cant dodge that shit, and 75% of ur hp is gone... Just rework that shit, its so unfun to play against, or nerf it... Noct is fine, u can zhonia and he cant do a shit anymore

[@chibi-chan389]

I was tempted to give my boy skarner another vote because he got done so dirty by seraphine, but I got worried about how they would reimagine a monster champ given riot's current.....ideas about character design. So I compromised and voted for shyvana because for the love of god let's get some lore moving, she half monster so we can see if they learned any lessons, and maybe some of those old skins will get a much needed update making them worth the orange essence I used.

[@idoit319]

Eh nocturne needs it tho because he doesn't make sense at allll.

[@BrianWalker93]

That Helltaker music in the background, love it. Just casually vibing while Nicky is threatening to burn Skooch's shoes

[@markjade3587]

im extremely really wanting shyvana to be the one reworked next but... i guess yeah i only really wanted them to update shyvanas model especially her dragon form, but yeah, i agree, our boy skarner needs it more

[@ethanstyant9704]

She doesn't NEED a Vgu but definitely could use an ASU

[@MrDementedninja]

My friend who is a M7 shiv one trick, disagrees with that placement. He is still livid the rumors that shiv was next were just rumors.

[@envysart797]

How do they plan on reworking tryndamere, while letting him keep his crit scaling, while keeping his ult intact, without letting him be an obnoxious stat checker? Tryn’s big problems are his crit based rng and his ult making him a stat checker. How do we fix him while staying committed to his issues?

[@lurker8136]

They can swap his Q passive with his passive imo. His passive turns into the higher his rage, the more AD he gets. While his Q pasive is 5/10/20/30/40% Crit per skill point (and gain 1-5% Crit *5-15 at max skill points* based on how low his hp is) Number I gave doesn't make sense. but this is atleast how I imagine it'd be. Although late game tryn will still be broken unless you have hard cc.

[@isaacturner197]

Maybe by increasing how long cc effects him? Like a 1.5x or 2x increase in how long cc effects him, forcing him to build tenacity.

[@gabrielantunez7642]

@@isaacturner197 that's just stupid

[@envysart797]

@@isaacturner197 I feel like anti-tenacity would be a bit of a feel bad for the tryn player Maybe if he got a slow during his ult or something. Idk. It’s the old Poppy problem, the mechanic is kind of anti-interaction. Compare that to Kayle’s ult where it’s more like a Zhonya’s because she can’t attack during the animation. Extra zhonyas is still good, but I wouldn’t call it unfair, since a badly timed zhonyas is basically worthless. You could maybe have it that he can’t die for a short duration which only refreshes on attack, so after he activates ult he *must* attack, he can’t just use his ult as an escape tool. I think that’s more in keeping with his berserker fantasy.

[@MACA_Zeon]

Stat checker?

[@Tastingo117]

Skooch unironically says a champion which has only 1 ability with any impact at all is fine. The same ability which dealt 1800 damage to me a couple of games ago and was the sole reason my team could no longer contest anything in an otherwise even game.. smh

[@MrLolguy93]

Really want either Noc or Shyvana. Since only one is waifu material, it's clear who will win

[@pokey2747]

Same

[@jamesweststeijn1330]

Waifu Noc, clearly

[@MrLolguy93]

@@jamesweststeijn1330 with ghost milkers

[@skylerfreeman1173]

Really sad tbh... wish nocturne would win.

[@zolo-p3p]

@@skylerfreeman1173 ur trash at nocturne if u wanan rework him

[@speede2467]

I think nocturne ult would be awsome if when he ults on someone clones of him ult on every enemy and the clones do aa but only the first one deals damage and they deal as much damage as his armor ( so that it seems he is real but not build full ap or ad and pentakill by pressing r)

[@dogsoneup]

I love the clones ulting at the entire enemy team, buy they shouldn't do damage. Let them cast his abilities and do the special auto-attack animation just doing no damage. So Nocturne jumps at you, is he real or fake? Do you use flash? This way seems more fun.

[@austinfauth3062]

Personally I go for Shyvana, considering that she really really damn sucks unless you build her as ap one-shot, which is pretty damn boring. I miss ad toplane shyv!

[@basementhomie2674]

Imagine voting for shyvana lmao shit takes everywhere

[@basementhomie2674]

This is some Minecraft mob voting type of deal in league lmao

[@charleshoward5243]

@@basementhomie2674 Isn't this entire comment section saying Skarner what do you mean

[@basementhomie2674]

@@charleshoward5243 nah it's "I'm voting for shyv cuz she isn't that good tbh" while my boi skarner looks like something out of a PS1 game and people voting for skarner. I don't give a flying fuck i don't play the game anymore lmao

[@gallalameblook9911]

@@basementhomie2674 Bruh, look at shyvana in game Now look at her splash art. HOW ARE THOSE TWO PEOPLE THE SAME PERSON ? WHY DOES SHE LOOK LIKE SHE WEARS A PORCELAIN MASK ? Skarner's model may be old, but he's definitely fine. He's kinda generic, and I don't doubt they could do something absolutely stunning with crystals, but don't put him in the same box as Zilean or current Udyr. He's early PS2 graphics at worst

[@chicane8249]

Why not just make a year of reworking champions, instead of making new ones? The roster is already huge.

[@benepic3101]

I agree. Kog’maw almost has a pre-rework Sion level of kit dysfunction. His abilities all just do things, they don’t synergize or lead to any cool play patterns

[@儀水鏡の妖怪霊]

I think you're underselling just how much of a one-button wonder AP Shyvana is, and how little that fits to the theme, which is the point of her rework if she gets one. I would place her closer in competition with Skarner. Nocturne needs a revisit, but I see the focus on Attack Speed maybe being the issue. Why couldn't he be better as an Assassin instead of an auto-attack fighter?

[@jeremytewari3346]

I agree, it doesn't feel like "Dragon RUN!" and its more "Dragon, welp undodgeable one-shot time." I think when Shyvana ults, fighting her should always be the wrong decision, but not just because she can delete you with E

[@merrychristmasreaper]

I'm sorry the last scion of a dead race of trapped crystal creatures, being abused and misused for infinite power is a generic concept? RIOT, STOP THE CAAAAAP lmao

[@Lily-wd7dz]

Bold of them to say when champs like seraphine exist.

[@lemmenkainen]

I've played Nocturne since season 2. It's been really weird to see how much attention he's gotten over the past few years. For the better part of a decade you didn't hear a peep about him and never saw him in pro play. I used to play him mid against very specific matchups in season 6 and 7 and jungled the rest. There are so many champions that used to just tool him, but changes to the rune system and items made him A LOT better. I kind of hate that he's really good and was top tier in several roles for a while.

[@yung_wise5861]

Senna's ghouls would be awesome for a Nocturne ult. You see those crawling at you while the ult is happening

[@usnerdswillbenerds4889]

What if Nocturne ult gave him an indicator on the vision limit for the enemy, and he had the ability (either as part of the ultimate or another ability entirely) to send copies of his allies toward them (similar to Neeko) except if the person hits the fakes, they take a small burst of damage, thereby discouraging them from hitting your allies, which may help allies gap close when they may otherwise struggle to do so. I don't want him to go too far into illusionist territory since that's more leblanc and neeko's thing, but he's supposed to give people nightmares, and nightmares are all about putting people in imaginary scenarios. Another idea would be to give him an ally-version of viego ult that's weaker since it's not his ult, so when he jumps on someone he could impersonate his allies. Better yet, make it so he ults, and for the duration can turn into allies, but once he turns into someone by pressing his r again, he can fire off 1 functional ability before he switches automatically into the next one, so it'd be like in the cinematic where he's dipping in an out of the shadows, but every time he pops out he's someone else. Lastly, what if they gave him a dash/slice ability similar to akali ult (with less damage) and when he ulted someone, he locked onto them similar to yuumi, where they become his focal point, and then he can spawn in from outside their vision range in a circle, and give him copies of himself that he can send out that do the dash, and if the person hits the fake dashing clone it does damage to them, but if they hit Nocturne it stops the ult, so it encourages the victim to attack them so that the ult stops and they theoretically could make it do little-no damage, but simultaneously discourages them from doing so in order to not take the clone damage. I'm aware these ideas are pretty out there, and some may be either too weak or too strong, maybe boring to some, or stupid/op to others, but I'm just throwing stuff at a wall to see what sticks, because after Fiddlesticks rework I've been JONESING for a Nocturne rework of the same calibre.

[@AngeloArcana]

I'm gonna jump on the disagreement bandwagon, and say Shyvana needs it the most. Its not about her being playable, or having a build that will find success; Its about her theme being completely opposite to her playstyle. Shyvana doesn't transform into a dragon and become an engine of destruction like advertised. Shyvana transforms and turns into cowardly artillery from a full screen away, and then becomes useless again when the transformation timer runs out. Yes, it will win games, but its so contrary to her gameplay fantasy. Her passive is useless going AP. Her Q had AP scaling, but you're so squishy you'll never be in melee range. Her W just becomes a "run away" button. Its absolutely terrible thematically. Shyvana definitely needs it most.

[@lorgranz7051]

Exactly my point shyvana it’s just an Aoe Zoe with a longer downtime

[@under9081]

finally someone fucking says it, 100% true

[@labros9999]

I mean nocturne is supposed to make u scared but if he ults you half the time you just accept that you are dead and there's nothing that could have prevented that. Kog is also supposed to be bad early game and be an unstoppable artillery force in the late game but he's just a bit less bad

[@keeperofthehammer6795]

Simple but effective change to Nocturne ult: When he dashes to a champ a clone Nocturne dashes to every other champ. It does no damage but all 5 have to figure out in the second that they see him coming if this is just a clone or if it's the real one.

[@RodneyG669]

I really wish they'd do something different with Sivir's passive, it's weak. Make it a ricochet mechanic and give her a new single target skill shot on W that can bounce off walls a certain number of times, maybe based off the level of the skill. Increase the damage for each bounce. Let her tag people around corners.

[@megaultrasuperko4601]

For Shyvanna Riot should take some inspirations from Deathwing. I find it weird that for someone who is supposed to be part dragon she doesn't have a flight ability. When she is in dragon form give her the ability to fly and rain fireballs from above or give or when she transforms make her ult similar to Deathwing's cataclysm ability.

[@Ofxzh]

If kog’maw is reworked, they should make their abilities change depending on stats. Built AD? Now your abilities can buff your auto attack. Built AP? Now your abilities have combination affects. But we all know Tryndamere is gonna get reworked because of the Freljord stuff going on. If Nocturne gets a rework, he should get some stalking things in his kit. If he stalks a champion for long enough, he’ll blind and debuff them.

[@takedonick101]

How about an ability where he sends you an instagram dm irl and stalks you online

[@SnowyGrass]

so you are suggesting giving kogma the kaisa treatment since that is what she does with ad and ap builds.

[@Loliston]

The ideia with Kog has potential! We already have something like that about the void, Kai'Sa abilities evolves with the items you buy, Kha'Zix skills evolve with experience, and Cho'Gath also evolves gaining hp and size the more ultimate stacks he has So for Kog'Maw they could do a combination of Kai'Sa thing with maybe Kayn passive, so the more ap you have your skill changes to one, if you build ad it changes to another one, after you reach a threshold you begin mutating and or become a full artillery mage, or a powerful on-hit adc!

[@frozi1541]

As a kogmaw ap main i think he is perfect beside his passive. they can just make his passive be able to do R of rammus to yeet and boom. if they rework him they should give him kaisa like start evolution. but give him 2 evolution on ap becuase ad and as go hand in hand.

[@teediumTV]

In SMITE, Cthulhu has a similar mechanic that you described for Nocturne. When he makes someone go mad they see weird visuals and hear different ultimates from other Gods going off. Maybe they hear an initiator or an assassin and use their abilities and items on nothing. Its pretty cool.

[@ArvexYT]

Here's an idea to rework Nocturne inspired by an old GameCube game I remember that had an insanity mechanic that caused some messed up hallucinations (including a fake deletion of your save file.) Nocturne's passive now has a secondary component that that stacks on enemy champions. Stacks are gained by taking damage from Nocturne's basic abilities and passive and fall off very slowly (like one stack per 10 seconds,) but clear completely on scoring a takedown on Nocturne. While stacks are on that champion, they see hallucinations with increasing frequency and more aggressive behavior based on the number of stacks. At higher stacks, they might start casting fake Nocturne spells, pathing towards the champion or placing fake wards. Maybe even have them place fake wards that despawn instead of going invisible after a few seconds. (Maybe also make it so those stacks increase the healing on Nocturne's passive to symbolize him literally feeding on their fear?) Instead of just fearing, his E now rapidly builds up stacks of Paranoia and fears if they reach maximum stacks. When Nocturne ults, nearby champions are hit with a fake Nocturne that deals damage based on the number of stacks. The idea being that if Nocturne ganks and you get away, paranoia lingers as to whether or not he'll come back. EDIT: I'm curious if anyone knows what game I was hinting at in the first sentence.

[@mps51297]

Eternal Darkness?

[@goranpersson7726]

I would say skip the ult bit about other people than the target taking dmg but keep the part of just about everyone nearby getting a nocturne comin at em at mach5

[@ArvexYT]

@@mps51297 Ding ding! We have a winner!

[@jorgelaborde376]

The problem with shyvana is the kayle desing, where You feel like You are waiting for your ult to be an actual champ, the problem is that kayle eventually is, shyvana always has to be aware that without ult she can't fight

[@anthonyspeta2181]

Maybe a fun idea for Shyv, but every time she levels up her ult she gets an improved dragon form so that at level 16 she becomes a giant raid boss dragon when she ults. that and then fix her base model so it matches the skins better and I think she's fine.

[@custodianguardofthemagyari216]

My only problem is that she would face the kayle problem

[@ArcadianCatharsis]

@@custodianguardofthemagyari216 what's the kayle problem?

[@custodianguardofthemagyari216]

@@ArcadianCatharsis the problem with kayle that she is ultra powerful during late game but until you reach that point your teamates literally have to play 4v5

[@ajota2288]

@@ArcadianCatharsis dog shit at the start, doesnt win the game If the game ends before 35 minutes

[@anthonyspeta2181]

@@custodianguardofthemagyari216 True, you would have to balance it out so the power budget isn't mostly in her lvl 16 ult. The other benefit would be that Kayle's upgrades affect her entire character whereas Shyv's ult only affects her, uh, ult not her base form.

[@DevilsRose321]

I agree that Nocturne’s ultimate should either make shadow or nightmare clones of his allies or make the enemies “hallucinate” seeing enemy flashes, champions and other summoner spells. I think that his ultimate should go more in the nightmare clone route and make it so that if a clone hits an enemy, they get feared for a few seconds and when nocturne hits them with the second cast of his ultimate, they take the usual damage when hit and bonus damage if the target is feared. I do think if Riot went this way, the fear from the clones should not be aoe as that’s incredibly too strong. Feel free to argue or agree with a reply.

[@deathatnoon12]

Shyv could be an AMAZING ap bruiser, if they had good ap bruiser items

[@Geheimnis-c2e]

Bruiser, sure. AP Bruiser? Fuck no. I don't want a scuffed Mord. I want an AD tanky dragon fantasy.

[@deathatnoon12]

@@Geheimnis-c2e she actually used to be built like a bruiser but with a bork

[@finnhero9153]

Shivana's problem is not in the balance, but that now with the ap assembly she feels like a champion of 2 abilities, she presses R and spams E until the dragon form ends, and that's where her gameplay ends too right now. That's what needs to be changed.

[@mwsn736]

My only fear is that they make Skarner into a hot anime character because they don’t like him being a crystal scorpion. They’ll probably also “try” make [REDACTED] into a “likable” character even though that ain’t happening.

[@johnstrife7]

Bruhhh

[@bullettime1116]

Come the fuck on with the anime complaining. No shot are they going to do that. Not only would it not make sense but it also would be trash. Maybe as a very dumb human centipede-esc skin but no way would that happen

[@johnstrife7]

@@bullettime1116 ikr

[@Arob4343]

As a Shyvana main, I enjoy her kit. The only changes that I want are maybe some type of cc, improved early game, and better voice lines/taunts. I’m also a big proponent of ad bruiser Shyvana, because diving in and winning a 1v3 is fun. But to fulfill your request, I’ll create an update: Passive: keep the bonus damage on dragons. Remove the bonus resistances part, replace it with dragon specific buffs. All dragon buffs are 25-50% stronger on Shyvana. Including soul effects Q: retain the auto double reset, but add a slow that scales somehow. Maybe more having more health than your enemy slows them? This way it’s like the weight of your punches are crippling? It could work like this-equal hp just does damage, 300 more health adds 10% slow, max slow is at 800 and it slows by 30%. Possibly ad a stun for being like 1500 hp higher? Stun feels too strong so maybe not W: I like the current burnout, so leave the base burnout alone. E: this is her big flashy damage. What’s Shyvana without a fireball? A different champion...she needs the fireball So I haven’t changed much yet. That’s on purpose, my main changes come with her ult. R: you become dragon. Exactly the same move. But now your dragon form is changed completely Dragon passive: gain elemental augments, depending on the soul dragon. Similar to Qiyana’s elemental effects. Before the soul dragon is revealed, you’re passive is the same as human form. But afterward, it becomes this Dragon Q: Shyvana lunges forward, landing with a bite similar to her current dragon Q Fire augment (FA)-adds a burn effect Wind augment (WA)-generates triple fury on Q strikes Mountain augment (MA)-gives an hp shield (like Vi’s passive) Ocean augment (OA)-slows target, grounding them for 0.25 seconds Hextech augment (HA)-shiv lightning when Q lands a hit on a champion or structure Chemtech augment (CA)-fears targets hit for 0.25 seconds Dragon W: before soul reveal it’s just burnout, but after soul is revealed, augments take over FA-scorch the ground, like her old ult burnout WA-the burn is removed but the speed up is increased and doesn’t fade away during the time it’s in use MA-keep the fire around you, no longer speed up as much, but increases tenacity like Garen’s W OA-the duration of the ability is reduced, the burn is removed, instead any enemies inside the aura are grounded HA-instead of fire, Shyvana now pulses electricity, not only do you damage enemies inside the aura, you increase the damage dealt by allies inside the electric aura CA-keep the speed, remove the damage, instead the aura now hides ally units like Senna. Ally units are revealed by things like control wards and hawkshot Dragon E: before soul is revealed, you fire forward like Rumble FA-this augment gives you Shyvana’s current dragon fireball that explodes and burns the ground. It’s a strong effect but in this rework it’s locked behind the fire soul WA-launch a fireball that does significant damage to the first target hit and knocks back anyone at the point if impact, knocked back targets become brittle (yes like Ornn) MA-Shyvana spits a lava rock, it does an initial burst of damage and stuns anyone at the impact area for 0.1 second OA-spray water from your mouth, it hits the ground and creates a puddle that slows anyone that walks through, even allies. Only Shyvana isn’t slowed by the puddle HA-fire a bolt of lightning at the ground. The affected part of the ground does periodic damage, similar to Alistar’s trample, except designed to do real damage CA-fires a blast of smokey green fire that creates a cloud in the circle. The cloud poisons enemies Sure, this kit is insane. Possibly overloaded. It makes you’re success reliant on the augments, but that also balances things. You don’t know which of the 6 you’ll get early on. They abilities all function the same essential. The augment is a 1 time change. And I tried to not make the abilities too insane. They synergies but don’t oppress. Fire=damage, wind=speed, mountain=durable, ocean=cc, hextech=lightning and amplification (yes a pun), and chemtech=poison and deception. I feel like Shyvana needs to lean more heavily into the dragons of the game. Her base form is pretty much what it is now. But her dragon form should be a showcase of dragon power. And since the 6 elemental dragons are important to the game, go for it. Also I’d like an Elementalist Shyvana skin, an ultimate skin like Lux. Just like Lux’s skin, Shyvana updates her look based on elements. Except her changes are based on the dragons that her team kills -I made this rework idea back in November, in response to someone else’s video. But I still like the idea. Something about her gameplay should change or adapt based around the elemental dragons or soul

[@seifkamal4294]

Aurelion sol is the strongest in the lore but he gets rooted and 1 shot by a bitch in pijamas in game

[@dracku8594]

wtf

[@jeremy896]

I loved playing OG skarner as an ap bruiser and was so sad when they reworked him. The ap play style was also so fun, great healing and a massive shield. Hope they bring back that play style.

[@deathstar6998]

The reason I am so for the Shyvanna rework is because I loved the bruiser playstyle she had and want it to return. The ap style is not bad but its not something I would consider fine, her E is buggy and hits a much larger radius than it telegraphs, her human form is just horrible, and her only real redeeming quality is being this weird artillery mage that can get tankyish by killing dragons. The problem is in order to kill dragons you need priority in both the jungle and the bot lane, so it really has implications on whether or not she will be good. In my opinion the ap playstyle is more of a bandaid than anything else, because eventually it will reach a point where its unbalanced and in some cases it already is. And before level 6 she has no priority, and low amounts of ganking power. So to me Shyvanna feels like she is falling apart and Riot is putting the pieces together on her with these ap based buffs.

[@TheBellaOfBaritone]

Honestly, if I had to change them all? Shyvana: Can do a kinda short-distance Aurelion Sol gliding thing in dragonform, consuming her whole 'dragonrage' thing with distance, give her an addition to her passive that makes the dragon (down at botlane, not her ultimate form) attack the same target she's attacking, just...immediate switch to helping her attack them, and work some physical on-hit into her kit, so if you do build her AD, she can be still somewhat viable, given we now have runes like Lethal Tempo to make that more viable, without entirely demolishing her AP powerhouse builds. Tryndamere: Make his dash shorter when going away from someone he just slowed, and make their slow only affect them if they're actually running *away* from Tryndamere, and rather than so much bonus crit from level one, a great deal less bonus crit, but more attack speed from it, so he still has that pressure, but only if you actually try to hold a longer trade, kind of like how fighting Darius for too long is a bad idea. Nocturne: Make his ult so it turns all the champions for that target into Nocturne, making it hard to identify which is the real Nocturne, while the real Nocturne goes camoflauge and is visible only to the target. It would make being aware of ally positioning a big deal against him as counterplay, but would also play into the paranoia/nightmare thing. Hell, if you really wanna fuck with them, have it so his allies *become targetable* when they look like Nocturne, making it so you can trick an ADC into killing their own support. (No idea if this would be a pain in the ass to code, but if it could work, that'd be a helluva befitting ult of a nightmare-focused champion.) Remove the damn spellshield, I can't wrap my head around why it's in his kit, it makes no sense thematically or mechanically, because its part of what makes his ult so frustrating to play against. (The change to a single target aspect of the ult at least lets the other team know who you're ulting, and position accordingly, even if the target might freak out over that and try to run away, which is...well, that fits the thematic perfectly in my eyes. It gets harder to instajib someone, but you can zone out a pretty large radius, unless the enemy team is perceptive enough to recognize the behaviour of their allies vs enemies.) Kog Maw: Passive is kept similar but rather than a timed thing, he can activate it early after death and just LUNGE for a target, with range and damage increasing with AP, with bonus damage based on missing health (the threshold scaling a little with his AP) against whoever killed him. Make his AP burst build focused more on getting them to lower health so if you die, his passive can become a less predictable, more effective execute. Make his AD more about melting faces, but NOT dying, and focus his R entirely on AP, but it remains usable in his passive, letting him use it to catch up to a more mobile enemy champion. Maybe if it slows or even grounds when it hits an enemy while he's in his death passive? Skarner, fuck off the crystals, turn his armour into a Rek'sai like tunnel ability, only it's not A to B, he just goes camoflauge as he digs underground, granting armour when he pops up instead. Bonus points if his slow into stun is just a slow above ground, but if underground, it fires up and stuns, syncing with the tunneling thing, so he actually has a ganking method more reliable than "Gotta Go Fast", which is kinda...useless when every new champ and their dog has all this mobility now. (Perhaps create crystals where he digs a tunnel, that work like wards to grant vision, but act like the current spires in a mini version. .....*inhales* Jesus fuck, I really need to get a hobby. O.O I put way too much thought into this and a lot of its probably cool in my head, but would be tilting as fuck to deal with in practice.

[@Andy-xd5dj]

I think nocturne is the choice, by far the most thematic and lore potential out of these imo. Skarner really just needs a new passive, visuals and continue building on his current story with some consistency fixes.

[@BlyndAyngl]

how cool would it be if nocturne had a passive that made it so everytime he became camoflaged/ stepped in a bush, he would generate a cloud of darkness around him that cuased his current affect of a darkness in the area. it would affect wards too. this would let nocturne slip around wards by entering bushes. just change his current ult too just the dash and maybe make the darkness passive global for a short time after using the ult. it would create some interesting game interacctions

[@Pyrous56]

I want my queen Shyvana to get it, imagine, post-ruination Shyvana facing trial for her crimes, I imagine her a bit more savage but remorseful of her actions against demacia. How they do their design is up to them, I saw a few cool ones on another channel, the only request I have is to please make her dragon form look like a goddamn dragon instead of a featherless chicken :/

[@blanksilver3851]

They said they want to make her more like akali i dont want akali 2.0 one akali is annoying enough.

[@DarkStar14n]

@@blanksilver3851 Where did they say that?

[@valcurion570]

That would be cool but not necessary

[@GranMaj]

I think for nocturne they should make his kit build around obstructing vision, like a passive that empowers ability/attack to nocturne when attacking enemy that had their vision obstructed or blinded (so blind debuff applied). so not only his ult can proc this, but some of his teammate can also do it.

[@thorium9]

Over the past year I've started to play shyvana, and because of that, I really hope she doesn't win. She plays fine, just needs a visual update to dragon form, I shouldn't be able to compare it to DS3's dragon form.

[@capperbuns]

Yeah. Should be more ds1 or ds2 for cools. Shyvana looks like our beloved goat dragons.

[@100organicfreshmemes5]

Personally I disagree, plenty of dragons have ults that enhance their basic abilities. Making the dragon form more distinct from human form would make her a lot more fun. That being said she's pretty low on the list of who needs a rework.

[@lorgranz7051]

I disagree after maining shyvana for 4 years she’s not fine she should be a dragon not an AOE Zoe, can’t use Q because you can’t go into melé range She doesn’t have a real passive garen gets more armor with his W passive than shyvana with 5 dragons 2 of the builds that she was designed to use aren’t viable anymore and she is just allowed to exist due to her high ap numbers, honestly what does she do better that other champs besides spamming R-E on cd

[@theultimaterage675]

As a nocturne main, he just has so many build paths. If your team is squishy or if he's already fed, he just goes full lethality. If your team is less squishy or is behind he just goes bruiser with a bunch of sustain. Even with the nerfs, axiom arc is still so good with his kit.

[@carjack1195]

as a shyvana main i have to disagree, like they didn't fix shyvana with the ap buffs they just pulled an aatrox and killed the champ.. they destroyed an entire playstyle which I fell in love with and I find it so nice that they can give us ad shyvana back... also shyavas kit and visuals haven't changed in 9 years if that says anything

[@quzyr8988]

Agreed. I still play an ad bruiser-ish build on her but it’s objectively so much worse than ap

[@taylordrummond9116]

Another thing for shyvana, I've honestly found more success playing her as tank with nashor as only ap item over full ap, or even tank with blade of the ruined king. You pretty much become a raid boss that dives into the enemy team and take forever to kill, as with full ap shyv get a nuke e every 8ish seconds, really only get one or 2 off in a fight either way, and with ap you just die to most assassins.

[@slothbug4338]

Thank you for picking skarner. They could do so much with the earthy idea behind skarner's lore to the point where I think they could make a better rework than characters like Warwick if done right

[@1sobek1]

A good thing to notice about these rework vote polls is that despite the champs on the poll who do rightfully deserve updates, the other few are discarded without even a say as to why. The two i am referring to mainly are Chogath and Malphite. Despite those two being some of the most outdated champs in game, they were never even mentioned within the few rework polls weve gotten these few years. It makes you wonder why exactly that is. As most of us know by now, Chogath is most likely the mystery VU that is soon to come with the Void event. Its not certain if this is true, but there is many obvious hints as to why a void event is on the horizon. Now as for malphite, there is less information to work with despite his continued success within the game itself. His winrates are always solid, and he does what hes meant to do when in the right hands. This however does not completely define how a champion should be, because visually, he comes from a "bygone" era as well. Malphite from i remember was made by a mage who died within the icathian war, where he then made malphite as a last resort to fend off what void it could. This may also play a part in the upcoming void event, which leads to the possible chance that malphite may be one of the first ASU's riot has talked about for some time now, alongside the full scale Chogath rework. Something like this would explain why these two in particular have not even been considered or talked about within these vote polls. It seems fitting, but it is all just speculation still.

[@basementhomie2674]

Nah we getting a lux skin

[@basementhomie2674]

Void lux prestige 20$ lmao

[@CorpseGodX]

Honestly don't touch Cho he's ugly he's big he's slow but he feels like a monster when hes gotten stacks , give him a visual update sure but don't touch his kit

[@basementhomie2674]

@@CorpseGodX he is prob getting the vsu, if he gets a vgu then they are def keeping the feeding mechanic. Prob they will change Q and W cuz they don't make sense and are not that good

[@Ju1ianDavenp0rt]

just bc shyv can technically do smthn rlly well by spamming her 1 ability doesnt mean she's a good champion. of all these characters, shyv has the most potential to be fucking awesome as a character design & she's just not delivering at all. trynd, kog & skarner just dont have all that much potential as a design, so we're not missing that much. noc has a dope concept & he delivers on it relatively well. so shyv needs it the most

[@cleenash]

Trynd: random dude with sword, Kog: random insect that vomits, Skarner: random crystal thing, Nocturne: random black thing with blades Shyvana: A FREAKING DRAGON.

[@DragonSlayer3050]

a psychological addition to nocturn ult could be that everyone sees a nocturn flying at them, it just that 4 of them are clones so you dont know which is real until he gets to you

[@hellfrozenphoenix13]

Each of these 5 need reworks to be honest, but I have to say, I mostly agree with skooch on this list. Even though I would swap Kog and Tryn, but thats it. For Shy, make her have meh abilities and make them way stronger when she turns into a Dragon. I would also say you can safely swap her Q into a passive and make a new skill if needed, but they can do a lot to make the dragon part of the kit feel different. Such as Q causing her to do a lunge towards the enemy to bite them, or her E being able to be charged and released as a constant flame breathe. Lots of unrealized potential. For Tryn, rework the passive to not be crit. Honestly, even just making it increased AD would be okay, so it doesn't feel like RNG decides how good it is. And if they want to keep the ultimate (which I think is a mistake) maybe make it a forced use. Once you hit damage that should kill you, it gets used up, so thag the counter to him is that he can't control when it occurs (and likely lower the duration slightly) and work from there. Kog is going to be tragic no matter what. But with this champion, I agree with Riot on doubling down on an idea and fleshing it out. Change the God awful passive, maybe into one that encourages him to keep hitting the same foe for attack speed, and ibwould argue keep his W, but work the rest. Nocturne is a unique case. I like Skooches idea, although how they could do it is that when he casts the ultimate and uses the dash, everyone sees a nocturne, but only one is real. This would add a real "ah fuck" moment because everyone will have to worry about if it's the nightmare himself or just a normal nightmare. Another mechanic they could do is have him cover areas in Darkness and let Nocturne buff himself while in Darkness. Let him have an area denial that makes you afraid if he is there or not. Skarner just needs help. His passive, if they keep the cap points idea, should fuel his other skills somehow. Maybe he gains power from them over time, and that enhances his other skills. And his Q, frankly, could turn into part of the passive. New Q, current E. W, keep the same. E could take an idea from HotS and let him target a foe, the foe gets a symbol to know they aretargeted, and Skarner bum rushes their ass. The big trade off is it would basically yell out what he is doing, which is the point. Keep his R. his passive could fill up its resource slowly and evolve skills over time. empower autos to occasionally do area damage, Q no longer slows itself down and slow empowered, W lasts longer and gives some armor/Mr, E becomes unstoppable during the charge itself, R increases Skarners movement speed drastically.

[@Lu-iw2io]

Am I misunderstanding something or does the change that Trynda ult gets used up when he would die actually take away the only counterplay you have? Like surprising him before he ults or baiting out his ult is the only thing you can do. Not to mention what use does Not using a relatively low cooldown ult have? Feels like it would take away the only remaining skill/counterplay his ult has, for a maybe once per game situation where your ult gets used up with no hope of doing anything with it, where death timers are still short enough that it would even remotely inconvenience him .

[@hellfrozenphoenix13]

@@Lu-iw2io with the change, Tryn would get a lower duration as well as higher cooldown. The lack of control, in addition to a lower duration and higher CD, would take a bit of power from him and make it go into his other skills. Making it automatic would also prevent him from having the option of not using it in situations where it wouldn't help, forcing him to care about being caught out. It's the mix of the ultnand E that makes him the impossible split push, so hitting his ult would allow one to increase his fantasy of "undying warrior that thrives in combat" and maybe allow for a small rework on his E to make it less ideal to use outside combat. The change to his ultimate would just be the start of snipping off some of his power to give it to other areas (adjusting his power budget)

[@arich6395]

Skarner all around needs it lol! I'd like to see some TLC for the others, like keep them up to date visually and mechanically (and in lore) with others. I wouldn't put him #2, theres plenty of global ults that are ban worthy, but I love that you focused on Noc i was talking to some people on discord about him and what they could do for that TLC. I think Q is fine but making his fear and spell shield more intricate like Fiddlesticks' update playing off "vision=fear" would be cool, which would add to that idea of making his ult stronger if it creates fog of war for your other abilities. All these champs need better (more) lore too if you follow Necrit or any lore community they hounded on that.